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    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6413

      Alrigth, below is my prelim list for round 2 prospects. I have no opinion on these guys to date.

      * I want to put Brian Burns – Edge – FSU on here, but I see no way that he doesn’t obliterate the combine and fly up to mid-first. The only way I see him dropping is if he comes in at 240 and his combine is good but not great. Therefore, I’m taking him off.

      * I also highly doubt OT Jawan Taylor will be there (though I’m seeing early 2nd by a lot of outlets right now), so I’m not going to review him.

      So these are the guys I’ve decided upon based on feedback from folks and a bit of research. There are some guys who are late 2nd, but are rising (eg Devin Bush) and I’m personally curious as to how they look on tape.

      Gerald Willis – DT – Miami

      Dalton Risner – OL – KSU

      Chris Lindstorm – OG – Boston College

      Michael Deiter – G/C – Wisconsin

      David Edwards – OT – Wisconsin

      Devin Bush – LB – Michigan

      Trayvon Mullen – CB – Clemson

      Cody Ford – OT – Oklahoma

      Amani Oruwariye – CB – Penn State

      If folks could look at these briefly and if I get more than a few people agreeing on a prospect that is on here or a prospect that was left off, I’ll prune the list…but 9 is the number I’m going to review.

      Give me some thoughts, yays, nays, and I’ll start looking at guys tonight while the NCAA Championship is on.

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    • Captain Hindsight

      Participant
      Post count: 807

      No kickers?

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    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1930

      I like Lindstrom a lot. I think he’ll work his way into the first round at the senior bowl.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      @BucsBay is that a vote for removing Lindstrom from this list because you don’t think he’ll be there>

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    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13938

      I’d add Jordan (Ohio) in there. Can play both OG and OC.

      I’ve seen that he’s been pegged anywhere from Rd 2 to Rd 3.

      I’m actually very interested to see what RG and RT are mocked in the 2-4 range.

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    • CaptainStagger

      Participant
      Post count: 448

      Thank you for this, I was just about to ask for some second round offensive linemen. In the first three rounds I would hope to come away with D line, O line and CB…

      nobody….How do you chimed in on the Arians potential hiring?

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    • dexmonkey

      Participant
      Post count: 1884

      @nobody

      so are you going to do Burns at all?

      also can you look at Andre Dillard from Washington State.

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    • Detrimental

      Participant
      Post count: 1531

      Wisconsin OL were dominant this year cannot wait to see the film review. If theres one school that produces pro ready big uglies its them.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Alright, it looks like this is going to be the OL round for us. I’m going to take Gerald Willis – DT UM out for Michael Jordan – OL OSU.

      I’ll also do Burns @dexmonkey on the off chance (a) he has an average, underweight combine and slides and/or (b) he is available end of the 1st and we move up to get him.

      So 10 guys:

      Brian Burns – Edge – FSU

      Michael Jordan – C/G – OSU

      Dalton Risner – OL – KSU

      Chris Lindstorm – OG – Boston College

      Michael Deiter – G/C – Wisconsin

      David Edwards – OT – Wisconsin

      Devin Bush – LB – Michigan

      Trayvon Mullen – CB – Clemson

      Cody Ford – OT – Oklahoma

      Amani Oruwariye – CB – Penn State

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      • bodydenny

        Participant
        Post count: 93

        My concern is that the last couple of drafts people had guards mocked to us in round two and they fell off the board just ahead of us.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Thank you for this, I was just about to ask for some second round offensive linemen. In the first three rounds I would hope to come away with D line, O line and CB…

      nobody….How do you chimed in on the Arians potential hiring?

      I’m a mixture of conflicted and agnostic on Arians.

      Obviously he’s a fantastic coach in all the various ways that matter. He’ll have good assistants.

      But what is his health situation (he’s a few years older than when they first reared their ugly head)? How long do we have? 1 year? 2 years? More?

      He runs a very similar offense to Dirks and they had red zone problems as well. Are we going to see a lot of the avante garde running game stuff that has helped so many teams in the Red Zone?

      This is a nepotism hire that gets Licht a pass which frustrates me.

      So conflicted agnostic.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Just an FYI. We’ve got a lot of OL in this round so I’m going to need to put something objective out there to keep my thoughts together on where I’m ranking them.

      So I’m going to grade the OL a little differently than just THE GOOD and THE BAD.

      I’m going to evaluate them with a 1-10 rating in:

      PASS PRO

      ZONE BLOCKING

      POA (point of attack in Gap or Man) BLOCKING

      MOVE BLOCKING (Pulling, Screens, 2nd level, Trap/Wham)

      TECHNIQUE/SLOPPINESS (hand position, knee-bending vs waist, footwork…these things will add up to leverage and propensity for penalties or getting out of position)

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    • Bucfan2thedeath

      Participant
      Post count: 58

      I’ve seen the nepotism angle played a lot lately and I fundamentally disagree with the assertion. Nepotism implies hiring someone solely on familial/friendly relations and not on qualifications. This wouldn’t be the case with Arians. He’s an outstanding aggressive football coach. I actually think his dna aligns beautifully with Winston’s.

      In my opinion this is simply a fortunate juxtoposition between ability/qualification and familiarity.

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      • Nobody

        Participant
        Post count: 6413

        I’ve seen the nepotism angle played a lot lately and I fundamentally disagree with the assertion. Nepotism implies hiring someone solely on familial/friendly relations and not on qualifications. This wouldn’t be the case with Arians. He’s an outstanding aggressive football coach. I actually think his dna aligns beautifully with Winston’s.

        In my opinion this is simply a fortunate juxtoposition between ability/qualification and familiarity.

        You’ve got it in reverse (at least for me personally).

        Arians nepotism toward Licht is job security for Licht going forward into the future. Its insurance that he stays on as GM.

        Its like brokering a deal to sell the majority shares in the company you’re consulting/investing (badly) for to your dad.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Going to start with the 4 non-OL players so I can do the latter 6 in succession.

      BRIAN BURNS (EDGE) VS VIRGINIA TECH AND MIAMI 2018

      Traits I see…

      THE GOOD

      * Length, burst and general athleticism are off the charts.

      * Get-off and ability to shoulder dip and bend the edge on a speed rush is devastating.

      * Stutter and go outside or stutter and back to the inside complement the speed rush > dip > bend.

      * + play-maker and finisher.

      THE BAD

      * Not proficient or violent with hands (either shocking/shedding or ripping/swimming).

      * Play weight is ultra-low and it shows. If guys get into him or come at him on Man runs, he has no ability to anchor and deal with point of attack runs. His only real play in PoA runs is feint and try to lose the OL, but he ends up giving up his gap when he tries this.

      * Given the above, he doesn’t really have any ability to be anything beyond a speed rush package. He’ll get killed in the Inside Zone run game that is everywhere in the modern NFL. Unless he finds about 20 – 25 lbs before the draft, he’s either a (likely very effective) part-time player or he is going to have to prove that he can play Zone Flat and Seam/Hook coverage in the NFL as a 3-4 OLB.

      +++++++++++++++

      Burns athleticism on the field is ridiculous. Even if he doesn’t show the same sort of athleticism in underwear, it really makes no difference. He’s a crazy athlete at 235. The real question is can he put 20 – 25 pounds on and learn to use his hands and anchor.

      Regardless, this is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too high of a ceiling to make it to our 2nd round pick. I just don’t see it. If he gets to our 2nd round pick, you run to the podium.

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    • Bucfan2thedeath

      Participant
      Post count: 58

      Nobody I see you post often and respect your input immensely. I just don’t see it. How is the hiree showing nepotism to the man hiring him? Especially given the fact that he is imminently qualified for the job? He’s not agreeing to this because he’s trying to save Licht’s job. I would venture to guess that they likely didn’t even interact a ton given the fact that Licht wasn’t the GM in Arizona.

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    • Bucfan2thedeath

      Participant
      Post count: 58

      And with that I’ll stop. Not trying to hijack your thread. Do they even have PM’s on this site anymore?

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      DEVIN SMITH VS NOTRE DAME AND PENN STATE 2018

      Couple thoughts first. Michigan plays a very package-centric, pressure defense where they only do a few things, but do them extremely well. For the most part, they expect a lot out of their SAM and their FS (basically interchangeable depending upon formation), and they play a lot of Man Blitz, 2 Man Under, Cover 2 Zone, and a Cover 2 Trap coverage where they blitz the weak side of the formation and run Cover 2 over that w/ the boundary CB reading the inside/slot receiver (hoping to jump a Hot Hitch or Quickout) while the other side plays C4Z.

      The MLB (Bush) here is playing on the LoS a TON, and not playing a lot of orthodox MLB. They are blitzing a lot, Green Dog blitzing a lot, coming downhill as they scrape off of a particular DL, playing Man, and rarely playing a mid-zone drop.

      For these reasons, its difficult to correctly project Bush at the next level.

      Traits I see on tape…

      THE GOOD

      * Extremely physical football player when playing downhill. He is violent engaging downhill at the LoS (A gap blitzes or gap-fill) and violent through contact with a carrier. Kwon-like.

      * When blitzing off the edge, he has the ability to dip and bend it.

      * Adequate in Man coverage and recognizing + avoiding rubs from Bunch/Trips.

      THE BAD

      * The Michigan front is so dominant that when he drops back in Zone, there isn’t a lot of action. However, I don’t see him showing a ton of recognition of zone-threatening eligible-receivers. I see a lot of grass covering and trying to read the QB. He doesn’t pay for it, because of the front…but does that sound familiar?

      * Takes some poor pursuit angles and gets caught up in the wash a fair bit.

      * I don’t see a great/decisive decision-maker and play-maker when asked to Spy. I see a few losses on tape when the QB breaks or climbs the pocket and attacks the LoS.

      * Struggles mightily navigating 2nd level OL. Doesn’t get downhill to aggressively attack the appropriate shoulder, stack them and shed them typically at all. Tries to evade, but often indecisively, and in-so-doing, is entirely out of position for his run responsibility.

      ++++++++++++++++

      Sum told…this looks way too much like Kwon on tape. This is exactly the kind of MLB I do not want for this team. I hope the Bucs stay away.

      In order thus far:

      1) BURNS – EDGE – FSU

      2) BUSH – ILB – MICHIGAN

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      • Nobody

        Participant
        Post count: 6413

        ANDRE DILLARD VS USC AND IOWA ST 2018

        @Gareth

        Not going to do a full write up on him like I did with the other OL in this.

        Traits I saw…

        THE GOOD

        * His vertical set against the edge rush is typically technically clean and efficient with good footwork. If he gets his hand placement right and doesn’t have an overset threat, he mirrors well and typically rides his man right outside the C arc or stalls out the rush entirely.

        * Appears to have really good length (so when he learns how to consistently place strikes and violently do so…if he does, there is untapped potential).

        * Hands off and receives stunts/games well. Doesn’t chase and is aware of scraping defenders coming off his man that goes hard inside.

        * Awareness and good effort peel 2nd level threats when he’s comboing in Pass Pro or when running Man or Zone.

        * Quick sets begin with good base, good knee bend.

        * + and consistent effort.

        * Good pad level and initial explosiveness in the Inside Zone running game to occupy people and climbs 2nd level pretty well (pace and angle to target).

        THE BAD

        * Extremely inconsistent with his hand placement and not nearly violent enough with his strikes…

        * Following from above, when his hand placement is bad (and it is a lot…be it pass pro or run game) or he loses the strike initiative, his head routinely leaks out beyond his lower half, making him extremely vulnerable to various moves to disengage/shed him in either situation.

        * His kick-slide in his vertical set isn’t devastatingly quick and he can definitely give up the edge to 7 tech speed rushers or dip/bend players with get-off, especially (again) if he doesn’t get strike initiative and have good hand placement early.

        * He has a propensity to overset to the edge (due to clear physical limitations in athleticism) and will be very vulnerable to countermoves to the inside or stutter > slap and go.

        * Really not seeing functional lower-half strength to anchor against bull rush/speed to power or to displace people in the running game. The hand placement issues just exacerbate this. A lot of times (because of this), he has to sprawl and his head leaks out beyond his base and he can be shed.

        * Though he’s an effort guy, he just occupies people in the running game. He isn’t a finisher (and doesn’t show the functional strength to be one).

        **************

        Overall, once he is engaged appropriately (good hand position, wide base, head over lower half) he mirrors well in pass pro…but even then, his anchor just isn’t that good. I don’t see functional strength in pass pro or in the running game and such extremely inconsistent hand placement/violence (despite the long arms) just exacerbates things.

        Although DSmith is a monster and Dillard is just normal-sized, my guess is they look somewhat similar in the pros because of Dillard’s extremely inconsistent play with his hands and propensity/need-to overset to compensate and they’ll both just be “occupiers” in the run game (though DSmith has no excuse to be just that). I can see him giving up a fair amount of Pressures and some bad losses on countermoves…and I can see some bad Holds because of it.

        Sum total. No, I do not like him in the 2nd round. If he learns to consistently and aggressively use his hands in the pros, I think his game (including his propensity to overset) will see a much higher ceiling than it is now. He’ll also become a bit more than just an “occupier” in the run game due to leverage improvement. But right now…I don’t want this kid playing LT for us next year…and I certainly don’t want to spend a 2nd rounder on him.

        1 – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE)

        2 – GERALD WILLIS (DT)

        3a and b – MICHAEL DEITER/CHRIS LINDSTROM (OG)

        4 – AMANI ORUWARIYE (CB)

        5 – MACK WILSON (ILB)

        6 – GERMAINE PRATT (LB)

        7 – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

        8 – DEVIN BUSH (LB)

        9 – DALTON RISNER (RT)

        10 – ANDRE DILLARD (LT)

        11 – TRAYVON MULLEN (CB)

        12 – MICHAEL JORDAN (C)

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    • Jpoe

      Participant
      Post count: 51

      this is a name a lot of you probably will not know but Juan Thornhill out of UVA will be a very interesting name to watch after having a very strong career. Seen many mock drafts of him in the second round. could be an interesting pick if willing to move to CB.

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    • Graham

      Participant
      Post count: 1768

      No running backs?

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    • BucNCane

      Participant
      Post count: 1064

      Damn. Was looking forward to Gerald Willis. I think he’ll be a monster.

      Would love a Greedy, Willis 1-2

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Damn. Was looking forward to Gerald Willis. I think he’ll be a monster.

      Would love a Greedy, Willis 1-2

      Like Burns, I suspect that Willis probably won’t be there. However, looking at things a little more, I think he’s got a better chance of being there than Cody Ford – OT – OKlahoma. So I’ll throw Willis back on here in the off-chance he drops to early 2 (in the stead of Ford). I’ll do him with the two CBs at the end of the round.

      @Graham

      I would be shocked if we went RB early with all of the needs on the OL (at least RG and RT, possibly LT) and the amount of talent available in 2 and 3.

      My guess is they’ll look at RB in 4 or 5 after CB, OL, and DL.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      DALTON RISNER (RT) VS MISSISSIPPI STATE AND OKLAHOMA STATE 2018

      PASS PRO – 6

      Slow, deliberate, sometimes awkward in terms of footwork, kick-slide in his vertical sets so edge rushers have some success in these games and will be a BIG concern in the pros (will likely need help on the edge; RB, TE). Further, his lack of lateral agility and suddenness is going to hurt him on countermoves to the inside.

      While his quick set and 45 degree against interior players is actually + (long arms, aggressive first strike and good hand placement), I saw a few plays where he was in position and either stood up too much or lost his anchor and couldn’t re-anchor. Overall, pretty solid here though.

      ZONE BLOCKING – 6

      I think Inside Zone he’ll be a pretty decent player, especially on the backside of Zone run plays. While he isn’t quick by any means, he’s really good with his hands and this allows him to get his hips and face where they need to be more often than not.

      He’s solid 2nd level as well.

      POA (point of attack in Gap or Man) BLOCKING – 8

      This is his bread-and butter. He’s extremely physical, aggressive and technical with his hands (and appears to have long arms), and he likes to keep working to the whistle.

      However, just like in his Quick-sets in pass pros, I saw some instances where he was shocked (lost the hand strike initiative) and was put on his back. Sometimes he comes out of his stance too high early and he relies on getting that first strike to drop his hips and drive. If he doesn’t make first contact, it seems to be a complete leverage loss for him.

      MOVE BLOCKING (Pulling, Screens, 2nd level, Trap/Wham) – 6

      His move blocking is better than I expected.

      He pulls technically soundly (low and tight to the OL with solid footwork), finds his target, and takes the appropriate angle.

      He’s pretty decent 2nd level after after helping 1st level.

      So he’s not bad with his spatial perception, but a lot of this comes to the fact that he is pretty technically sound with his hands and when he’s running (I’m using that term loosely here), he’s pretty composed and stays over his base.

      However, its VERY telling that KSU seems to exclusively run (or at least majority) their suite of WR Screens away from him. He isn’t nearly fleet-of-foot enough to handle the requirement of getting out on a slot defender.

      TECHNIQUE/SLOPPINESS (hand position, knee-bending vs waist, footwork…these things will add up to leverage and propensity for penalties or getting out of position) – 6

      His hands are great. Honestly, his hands are everything for him. My guess is he’ll come out of the combine with long arms and he uses them extremely well. He uses them to win and he uses them to make up for movement deficiencies and technical flaws (footwork, sometimes playing too high, sometimes his head leaking out over his base, sometimes his base isn’t wide enough).

      Its really amazing just how many technical flaws well-placed, violent, aggressive hand-work (and long arms) can make up for. If he wins that first strike, he wins a lot in pass pro and run blocking. If he looses it or he’s moving such that he can’t leverage it, he struggles.

      Part of me wants to project him at Guard next level due to his trouble with the edge rush. But honestly, I think he’ll have enormous trouble in over-setting and/or initially playing too high against the quick 3 tech DTs in this league. I can see him not winning with his hands and having no prospect to anchor and being put on his back a lot or losing the B gap edge…back-and-forth (very Benenoch-like OT transition to RG).

      RT w/ TE help on the edge or a protection slide seems like that may be his deal.

      I see him as a 3rd rounder most likely. I’d be surprised if he isn’t bottom of this heap of OL I’m going to review.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      I’m going to do the two Wisconsin OL next.

      MICHAEL DEITER – G/C – WISCONSIN VS OHIO STATE 2017 AND IOWA 2018

      PASS PRO – 8

      Good base and punch on quick set. If he loses leverage on initial anchor attempt, he fights to re-anchor and typically does. Great awareness on stunts. I’m not seeing him overset and losing to a countermove or on a stunt (doesn’t chase). Rarely gets a little high (probably fatigue) and get displaced or lose the edge, but even then his hand-work and base are good enough to get his hips where they need to be to round off a would-be B gap pressure or re-anchor on a bull rush.

      ZONE BLOCKING – 9

      Fantastic Zone blocker, Inside and Outside, covered and uncovered. Great footwork, plays with great leverage while moving laterally. Great help on 1st level and either finds his man and wins 2nd level or, if its a gap-shooting LB, he’ll be aware and peel back and pick off the LB before he can do damage. Seals on Outside, dispaces on Inside. I didn’t see a single loss on tape and it was just filled with wins.

      POA (point of attack in Gap or Man) BLOCKING – 8.5

      Displaces people in combo blocks and works relentlessly to finish. Plays with great leverage, hand position, base, routinely holds his block with active feet until his man is on the ground or out of the play. Like in Zone, when he’s comboing and needs to either get 2nd level or peel to get a gap-shooting LB, he is nearly flawless. Very rarely he’ll get a little bit lazy (probably fatigue) with his hands being outside the frame or his base getting too narrow and he’ll hold. But overall, great single, combo, or down/seal in Gap.

      MOVE BLOCKING (Pulling, Screens, 2nd level, Trap/Wham) – 7.5

      I mentioned his 2nd level blocking above in Zone and Man. When he pulls in Gap, he’s typically pretty good; tight to the LoS, good/quick footwork, finds his man and gets into him. Now and again, he’ll get too high and narrow his base and, being unwilling to lose, he’ll hold.

      I didn’t see much in the way of Screens from Wisconsin. I saw 3. His success rate was so-so. Climbing 2nd level in Zone/Man is different than getting out on Screens. You have to be very fleet of foot, and not just in a 3-5 yard area, precise in your pursuit angle and consistent in your technique through the navigation of that significant space. I’m not convinced he’ll be a great Screen player, but my guess is adequate.

      TECHNIQUE/SLOPPINESS (hand position, knee-bending vs waist, footwork…these things will add up to leverage and propensity for penalties or getting out of position) – 8.5

      His awareness, anchor, knee-bend, base, hand position and violence, footwork are all excellent. The only things I see with him is a very few stray plays here and there where he gets high or narrow or hands outside of the frame (that may very well be related to fatigue) that can draw flags. Its exceedingly rare however.

      +++++++++++++++

      EDIT – THROTTLED BACK A FEW GRADES JUST A TAD BIT AFTER WATCHING SOME MORE TAPE ON HIM. I STILL FEEL THE SAME OVERALL.

      It should be pretty damn clear that I’m impressed with this football player. He reminds me a LOT of Frank Ragnow. Played 3 different positions (LG last year where he was excellent) and was very good everywhere. He’s a technician, scrappy, physical, relentless, and great awareness. He also has great size, + athleticism in short area, but is probably a bit average to below average in longer areas.

      This is the kind of Offensive Guard I love. If this kid has a great combine, it wouldn’t surprise me to see him ascend. This tape is way too good. Right now, I’m putting him up top with Burns as 1a and 1b.

      1a and 1b (I think both of these guys are borderline 1st round players)

      Brian Burns (Edge) and Michael Deiter (OG)

      2a and 2b (I think both of these guys are borderline 3rd round players)

      Devin Bush (LB) and Dalton Risner (RT)

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      • Gareth

        Participant
        Post count: 212

        Dieter has everything I look for in a guard and would be a massive upgrade over Benenoch

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Dieter has everything I look for in a guard and would be a massive upgrade over Benenoch

      Absolutely. I’d love to see:

      Greedy Williams 1st

      Michael Deiter 2nd

      That would shore up two massive positions of weakness on this team. Instant (likely impact) starters.

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    • dexmonkey

      Participant
      Post count: 1884

      Dieter has everything I look for in a guard and would be a massive upgrade over Benenoch

      Absolutely. I’d love to see:

      Greedy Williams 1st

      Michael Deiter 2nd

      That would shore up two massive positions of weakness on this team. Instant (likely impact) starters.

      i would be down with this. address two huge issues

      that being said i wouldnt be upset with a DT or DE in rd1

      as long as we dont burn a pick on any position on offense that isnt OL im fine

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      DAVID EDWARDS – OT – Wisconsin VS OHIO STATE 2017 AND IOWA 2018

      Just a quick heads up. This is going to look an awful like Dalton Risner…because they are nearly carbon copies of each other. Edwards is a bit better than Risner is though. He’s a legitimate mid/late 2nd round OT I think, while Risner is a 3rd I’d say.

      PASS PRO – 7

      Slow, but technically sound kick-slide in his vertical sets. Again, edge rushers who can explosively come out of their stance and dip > bend will give him problems at the next level. He also typically (a) plays too high and (b) his base is often far too narrow. This is going to give him troubles on countermoves and speed to power. However, his arm length and good technique with his hands (wins first contact, inside the frame) bails him out a fair bit.

      When he has a TE outside of him (Wisconsin appears to be almost an exclusively right-handed running team) so a lot of times he isn’t vertical setting, but rather 45 degree or even quick-setting when they’re sliding the protection the other way. There, he does a good job due to his length and technique upstairs.

      Saw multiple stunts and he did a pretty decent job handing them off and transitioning.

      ZONE BLOCKING – 7.5

      His length, great technique with his hands, and short area + footwork helps him on Zone. Due to this, he does a decent job getting his helmet across the face of an even tech across from him and even 3 techs. His leverage in the run game (including Zone) is much better than his pass pro. He has a tendency to play with a much wider base. That plus his hands helps him seal (Outside Zone) or drive (Inside Zone).

      He’s so long and good with his hands that he’s adequate 2nd level as well (despite being just an average mover).

      Also a solid job cutting on the backside of Zone.

      POA (point of attack in Gap or Man) BLOCKING – 8

      Again, his base is better in run blocking than in pass pro. Routinely displaces people in combo blocks but isn’t a dominator/finisher. That base + his solid hands means he typically plays with good leverage.

      However, in single (be it seal on Gap or Man) or 2nd level climbs after combo, I am seeing some situations where his feet stop moving and his head leaks out beyond his base. This leads to either (a) him losing balance and basically “self-shedding” (and sometimes borderline holding) or (b) he gets stacked (stood-up) and shed.

      But those are only situations in singles. A lot of times, he does a very good job on single teams in Man. However, his 2nd level climb (which is going to be north/south) isn’t great. He seems to be a better mover laterally/diagonally (in terms of keeping base intact and using his hands) than he is vertically. He can get stacked and shed or he can stumble.

      MOVE BLOCKING (Pulling, Screens, 2nd level, Trap/Wham) – 5.5

      I mentioned his 2nd level blocking above in Zone and Man. He’s much better in Zone than he is in Man on his 2nd level climb, pursuit angles, finding/engaging his target.

      Again, not much in the way of Screens from Wisconsin. I don’t see him pulling on any Counters or being a factor in the Screen game in the pros.

      So basically pretty damn good 2nd level Zone and below average elsewhere.

      TECHNIQUE/SLOPPINESS (hand position, knee-bending vs waist, footwork…these things will add up to leverage and propensity for penalties or getting out of position) – 7

      His initiative with his strike, his hand placement, and his aggression are brilliant. This makes up for a lot of his short-comings. He also plays with a very good base in Zone and an inconsistent, but often solid enough, base in Man/Gap.

      However, he often plays waaaay too high, head leaks out beyond his base, base gets too narrow, and every now and again he doesn’t drive his feet relentlessly. A great run-blocker (a) plays with a great base, (b) plays with great hand technique, and (c) relentlessly keeps their feet churning. He needs to work on consistency with (a) and a bit with (c). Those also are the first things to go when fatigue sets in (see Smith, Donovan), so maybe endurance as well.

      +++++++++++++++++++++++

      Honestly, somewhere between Dotson and Trueblood is what we’re looking at here due to their physical attributes. He’ll never be the protector that Dot is, but Dot has never been good in the run game. He’s much better in Zone than Trueblood wasmand about the same in Man and 2nd level climb as Trueblood.

      UPDATE

      1a and 1b – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE) and MICHAEL DEITER (OG)

      2 – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      3a and 3b – DEVIN BUSH (LB) and DALTON RISNER (RT)

      Please wait…

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5853

      @Nobody Apparently Risner played Center at some point as KSU.  I would be more interested in knowing if he could play inside.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      @Biggs3535 . If I’m looking at a Center, I’m looking at OSU Michael Jordan. I’ve looked at him briefly (I’m going to break him down this evening) and I really like what I see. He seems like an early 2nd pick?

      My guess is he can play RG this next year and take over Center for Jensen the following year.

      As far as Risner…maybe? His quick-set is certainly better than his vertical set, that is for sure.

      However, he wins almost exclusively with his hands and has a tendency to sometimes play high and narrow his base. At 6’5″, he’s a smidge taller than your typical Centers in the league. He may not have as much success at Center because he can’t dominate with long arms + first strike + good hand placement. I can see him having leverage issues at that position.

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    • Detrimental

      Participant
      Post count: 1531

      Dieter has everything I look for in a guard and would be a massive upgrade over Benenoch

      Absolutely. I’d love to see:

      Greedy Williams 1st

      Michael Deiter 2nd

      That would shore up two massive positions of weakness on this team. Instant (likely impact) starters.

      Agreed

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      MICHAEL JORDAN – C – OHIO STATE VS MICHIGAN STATE AND MICHIGAN 2018



      @Biggs3535
      , remember early when I said my initial impression was positive with this kid from the few reps I saw? Pump the brakes. I’ve watched a lot more tape. Not a big fan as you’ll see below.

      PASS PRO- 7

      His first move is to stand up and narrow his base way too much of the time. Footwork is really inconsistent. Head leaks out beyond his base routinely. His hands are great and are his saving grace…when he delivers the blow (sometimes he doesn’t). That head leaking beyond the base makes him struggle on countermoves and when he has to pick up Twists, delayed blitzes.

      He’s rarely 1v1, but when he is, it can be dicey now and again.

      Needs to look for work all the time when he’s uncovered. Sometimes he’s just standing around.

      All that being said, its sloppy and looks a mess sometimes…but most times he does well enough at the NCAA level. But I’m feeling like he is going to have a lot of struggles in Pass Pro at the next level. Way too many technical issues.

      ZONE BLOCKING – 6.5

      Footwork is inefficient but he does a fair, if inconsistent, job on driving 1 techs on Inside Zone, mostly due to his good handwork and his active feet after engaging. Outside Zone will likely be a struggle because of that footwork and slowness of foot (can’t bucket step and get where he needs to be and, once engaged, can’t get his hips where they need to be to seal).

      POA (point of attack in Gap or Man) BLOCKING – 7.5

      Almost every block he makes it looks like he’s trying to drive block. So he does pretty decent in Man because of it (and OSU runs a ton of Man). When he’s combo blocking, they typically get some displacement. When he’s single, his hands are good enough and his feet active enough to keep this DT engaged to at least a stalemate, even if he doesn’t displace him. Just drives though, because his poor footwork typically doesn’t allow him to get his hips where they need to be to wall off a defender from the hole if its Off Guard. He’s basically occupying people.

      MOVE BLOCKING (Pulling, Screens, 2nd level, Trap/Wham)6

      Not a ton on tape. A few 2nd level climbs and a Power O play action where he’s pulling. On that play he does a solid enough job of being tight to the LoS, keeping his base wide while moving, and mirroring the uncovered player. His 2nd level climbs aren’t great. Some poor angles and definitely doesn’t appear to be a great athlete in space on vertical climbs so I highly doubt he’s going to be effective in the Screen game (which I didn’t see).

      TECHNIQUE/SLOPPINESS (hand position, knee-bending vs waist, footwork…these things will add up to leverage and propensity for penalties or getting out of position) – 5

      Footwork is inefficient and sloppy on a lot of plays so he ends up getting places less quickly than he should and sometimes finds himself on the ground. His head leaks well out beyond his base quite a bit of the time in both pass pro and run blocking. Sometimes his base gets too narrow and he gets upright. I’m definitely seeing too many fatigue reps.

      He’s inconsistent with his hands. Oftentimes he’ll deliver the blow and is inside of the frame…other times, he passively receives it in pass pro. I would say mostly good here though.

      On the plethora of Man runs I’m seeing from OSU, he keeps his feet churning to the whistle.

      Snaps are consistent.

      They don’t seem to get into too much protection trouble, either orthodox or against the blitz. So, if he’s calling the protections (likely so), then good job.

      ++++++++++++++++

      He’s also 6’7″, and I’m not remotely a fan of someone that tall playing Center. His movement looks like an awkward 6’7″.

      If he’s 2nd round, he’s borderline. I see more like a 3rd round player.

      UPDATE

      1a and 1b – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE) and MICHAEL DEITER (OG)

      2 – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      3a, 3b, 3c – DEVIN BUSH (LB), MICHAEL JORDAN (C), and DALTON RISNER (RT)

      Please wait…

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5853

      Thanks for the eval, Nobody.

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    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1930

      His Guard tape is better imo. I didn’t realize he’s that tall though. Tough for him to match up at all with smaller, quicker DTs.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      CHRIS LINDSTROM – OG – BOSTON COLLEGE VS CLEMSON AND MIAMI 2018

      FYI – Boston College runs tight splits (tighter than you’ll see in the NFL) and runs a ton of play-action and horizontal fake keys (or real plays) like Nagy. Because they’re a run-heavy offense and the features above, his 1v1s aren’t terribly plentiful. But there were plenty to see him in action.

      PASS PRO – 8.5

      His play-action sets are perfect. He comes off the ball hard, controlled, great pad-level so it looks like a run. And he doesn’t lose his assignment after that. Regardless of whether he is doubling with the Center or singled up (and he was a fair bit in these two games against very good interiors), he has a very good base, good with his hands, and good footwork. He almost always delivers the blow. If he loses leverage on initial anchor attempt in 1v1, he fights to re-anchor and his base + play strength are so good that he pretty much does all of the time. Great awareness on stunts. I’m not seeing him overset and losing to a countermove or on a stunt (doesn’t chase). Handled both B gap edge rushes by 3 techs and 1 tech bull/rip rush attempts.

      ZONE BLOCKING – 8

      Better Inside Zone than Outside Zone blocker. Due to their splits, their assignments on the inside in Zone almost always have a quick double team so nary is the play where I’m seeing him single off the snap in Zone. That makes for a little bit of a difficult eval. However, his footwork is really good, his base is good even while lateral, and his play-strength is +, so I so no reason to believe that he won’t be a very good Inside Zone player in the NFL. On the few times where I saw Outside Zone, he struggled to cross the face of the defender he was trying to reach. His 2nd level work is solid, but not great. His effort is there, but his target acquisition and his pursuit angle wasn’t always great.

      POA (point of attack in Gap or Man) BLOCKING – 8.5

      Not a terribly violent football player but certainly physical and with + play strength.
      That plus his great pad level and overall refined technique generates more than just stalemates in 1v1 (typically a yard of displacement) and great on combos w/ C or RT. Plays with great leverage, hand position, base, routinely holds his block with active feet until his man is on the ground or out of the play. Isn’t a devastating finisher though. His 2nd level play, like Zone, isn’t terrific, but its decent.

      MOVE BLOCKING (Pulling, Screens, 2nd level, Trap/Wham) – 7

      Just not enough of this on tape. The few Screens in the Clemson game had snap problems and not much elsewhere. Most of their run game is Man or Zone, not a ton of Gap. However, even on the broken plays, his footwork, agility, and pace are good enough in space to think he’ll be a solid player in the Screen game. My guess is his pulls/trap/wham would be similar.

      TECHNIQUE/SLOPPINESS (hand position, knee-bending vs waist, footwork…these things will add up to leverage and propensity for penalties or getting out of position) – 9

      His awareness, anchor, knee-bend, base, hand position, footwork, pad level on Man or PA-Man are all excellent. The only issue I see with him is his pursuit angles on vertical climbs in Zone/Man.

      ++++++++++++++++++++++

      As should be clear, I really, really like what I see out of this kid. The two games I watched were against big boys and he did more than hold his own. I only saw a few plays that were losses. When your technique is this good and you get these kind of results against big time opposition, its ridiculously easy to project this kind of player.

      He and Deiter are basically a toss-up. Very similar players with only minor differences in strengths. I could go either way.

      UPDATE

      1a, 1b, 1c (THESE GUYS ARE ALL LATE 1ST OR EARLY 2ND RD) – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE), MICHAEL DEITER (OG), CHRIS LINDSTROM (OG)

      2 (MID SECOND) – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      3a, 3b, 3c (THESE GUYS ARE ALL BORDERLINE 2ND ROUND PLAYERS, MAYBE 3RD) – DEVIN BUSH (LB), MICHAEL JORDAN (C), and DALTON RISNER (RT)

      ++++++++++++++++++

      There are clear tiers here. Give me Deiter or Lindstrom please.

      I’m going to do DT Willis and the two CBs next. I’ll be very surprised if they supplant any of those top 3.

      I would really like to find a LB that I like. Hopefully there is some smaller school or unsung player who is great in coverage and has great instincts that will be a 3rd round prospect.

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      His Guard tape is better imo. I didn’t realize he’s that tall though. Tough for him to match up at all with smaller, quicker DTs.

      Gotcha. And yup.

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Good stuff as usual NODODY.
      Hell …I have no idea what position they draft at #5 or the second round.
      With all the change going on at OBP, I think the only positions we can rule out are QB and PK. And WR too. Everything else seems wide open and a possibility.
      I guess they will need to determine Don Smiths and McCoys status and go from there.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Just one thing right quick.

      People dramatically underrate the demoralizing impact of either you being bullied by a ridiculously physical opponent or by seeing your teammate (especially someone integral being bullied) by someone.

      If you’ve ever wrestled or if you are, or were, a BJJ player, its akin to dealing with the guy who has outrageously heavy hips + ridiculous core strength and agility + strong, dextrous hands and refined technique. If you watch MMA, the look on the face of most of Khabib’s or Ben Asren’s opponents after a few rounds of being utterly overwhelmed is all you need to know.

      Its demoralizing emotionally. Its exhausting physically. Its exhausting mentally.

      This is why a player like Quenton Nelson is such a game-changer. Moving people relentlessly and crushing them to the ground (often repeatedly) and then them sprinting downfield to pick up their RB, their WR/TE, or their QB is demoralizing. He’s killing you. Your guys see him killing you. Then he still has the stamina and want-to to sprint to his guy and pick him up every time?

      That is utterly infectious in a bad way for the opposition and utterly infectious in a good way for his teammates (which is why Indy’s OL is suddenly enormously physical and punishing…its no coincidence).

      That may be why I like Deiter juuuuust a little bit more than Lindstrom. He isn’t anywhere near Quenton Nelson. But, similarly, he is a bully, a finisher, and relentless in-so-doing (but not in a stupid Jensen reckless kind of way). But he isn’t a sloppy knuckle-dragger. The kid plays with good technique (like Nelson).

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      • Gareth

        Participant
        Post count: 212

        Personally Deiter is the one player I want to see in pewter next year most.

         

        As an ex-guard I understand the value of an lineman that can impose his will/break the will of the man across from him. As Nobody said it is contagious and is often enough to put you over the top in close games. WR/TE start finishing their blocks. RBs want to finish every one of their runs hard.

         

        On the flip side of this coin perhaps part of the reason our line started out protecting well vs the saints and eagles but went to shit  through the year is that Benenoch’s line mates got demoralized watching him get whooped all day. It is hard to be a decent line without trust that the man beside you can do the job.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Good post Gareth.

      That last part is $.

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    • dexmonkey

      Participant
      Post count: 1884

      I would really like to find a LB that I like. Hopefully there is some smaller school or unsung player who is great in coverage and has great instincts that will be a 3rd round prospect.

      Vosean Joseph or Tevon Coney maybe?

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      @dexmonkey

      I could look them up myself, but why don’t you give me a brief overview of your thoughts on them; likely rd, attributes?

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    • Handiman1031

      Participant
      Post count: 34

      Nobody wrote: I would really like to find a LB that I like. Hopefully there is some smaller school or unsung player who is great in coverage and has great instincts that will be a 3rd round prospect.

      Curious what your opinion is on LB Tre Watson University of Maryland?  He’s 6’2 236. Lead the Big 10 in tackles (114) and interceptions (5).  Definitely an enforcer over the middle. He was ejected twice this season for targeting. You don’t see him getting pushed back when he makes tackles too often and looks to have good form wrapping up ball carriers.  Good ability to shed and often engages with blockers first to disrupt the play design.  Definitely looks to make splash plays and does so based on his ability to diagnose plays.  Film room junkie. Had 5 different coaches and a variety of schemes throughout his college career. He’s from Tampa.  His dad, Tim Watson, was a DB in the NFL.  He models his game off a combination of Patrick Willis and Tyrann Mathieu. He’s not talked about amongst most the popular draft site experts.  I’ve been hoping he’d be a guy that could be had day 3 for the steal to replace Kwon.  Accepted his invite to play in the East West Shrine Game.

      Also appreciate your attention to detail in evaluating the 2019 prospects, especially with the OL.  Not the flashiest of positions to scout, but one of the most important and also our biggest weakness this past season IMO.  Pretty stoked that we finally have some OL coaches with positive track records.  Our OL coaching has suffered tremendously since Aaron Kromer’s departure.  I hope Bruce and his staff share in your enthusiam for Deiter and Lindstrom.  Also curious about your take on Stanford OG Nate Herbig and Boston College CB Hamp Cheevers as potential day 3 picks?

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    • dexmonkey

      Participant
      Post count: 1884

      @dexmonkey

      I could look them up myself, but why don’t you give me a brief overview of your thoughts on them; likely rd, attributes?

      i dont necessarily have the eye for talent like you but i’ll give my opinion

      Vosean Joseph is somewhat similar to Lavonte. a little light at around 220 but he flies all over the field making tackles. most likely a Will LB. posesses solid coverage ability from what i saw. really a good run and chase LB. probably a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

      Coney is similar to Joseph although a little less talented IMO, he doesnt quite look as fast on screen. hes probbaly a 3rd or 4th rounder. they could be solid options on day 2 although im not sure we go LB that early

      im high on Devin Bush unlike you but i also really want to see him test because i want to see if hes tight or can flip and run and how fast he is straight line

      he reminds me somewhat of Danny Trevathan from a size and production perspective

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      @Handiman1031

      Those guys all rounds 5-7? I can do an abridged version for maybe 20 guys in that range. I can throw those guys in there.



      @dexmonkey

      Sounds good. I’m going to do an abridged round 3 and 4 with like 20 guys. I’ll review those 2 guys for that along with Germain Pratt from NC State (whom I really like from his Clemson 2018 tape).

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      • Handiman1031

        Participant
        Post count: 34

        I haven’t seen a projection for Watson, but he looks better to me than a lot of the LBs being touted.  Herbig is projected all over the place from rounds 3-7.  He’s a huge 350 lb Hawaiian kid from Stanford.  Opened up huge holes for Bryce Love at Stanford.  He’s a monster when he’s pulling in the run game, but looks like he struggles with quicker DL in the pass game.  I think he might be a guy that could have potential at RG if he gets on a proper strength/conditioning plan to find his proper playing weight much like we saw with Vea this year.

        Hamp Cheevers will probably be a late round pick due to his size.  He’s listed at 5’10 165 lbs.  First season as a full time starter he dominated in coverage for 2018.  Quarterbacks had a 39.5 passer rating when targeting him in coverage and he led the nation in interceptions with 7.  He flashed when I watched BC games to get a look at Lindstrom.  Florida kid from Trenton.  I think he’d be a great grab as a potential slot CB,  maybe center fielder at safety and special teams player.

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    • dexmonkey

      Participant
      Post count: 1884

      @handiman1031

      Those guys all rounds 5-7? I can do an abridged version for maybe 20 guys in that range. I can throw those guys in there.

      @dexmonkey

      Sounds good. I’m going to do an abridged round 3 and 4 with like 20 guys. I’ll review those 2 guys for that along with Germain Pratt from NC State (whom I really like from his Clemson 2018 tape).

      i agree on Pratt, hes a good player and probably in the range where we should be looking for an LB

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Thanks @Handiman1031 . Really appreciate the insight.



      @dexmonkey
      , agreed.

      I’ve not yet done enough reviewing of potential 3rd rounders, but right now a 1-3 draft of:

      (G) Williams (CB)
      Deiter (OG)
      Pratt (LB)

      looks good to me. 3 * day 1 starters. Although Arians hates starting rookies, he isn’t going to have much of a choice this year.

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    • Diehard Astheycome

      Participant
      Post count: 447

      I like Bush and Oruwariye!!

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      GERALD WILLIS – DT MIAIM VS LSU AND VIRGINIA 2018

      Wow. I figured he was 1st round material, but I was not expecting this @BucNCane .

      Traits I saw…

      THE GOOD

      * Ridiculous agility, vertical and horizontal suddenness for a man of that size. They have him gap-jumping a lot in this defense. Its ridiculous to watch the speed at which he does it. When he isn’t, his get-off is devastating.

      * Consistently good pad level (despite being 6’4″).

      * Extremely active, violent hands. Slap > rip + that vertical acceleration is devastating when he’s penetrating.

      * An absolute finisher (and a violent one) be it run or pass rush.

      * Fantastic motor.

      * Played all kinds of techniques at UM

      THE BAD

      * Undersized in terms of height/weight and body needs some work. Man, if this kid can shed some of the bad weight and put on more good weight…

      * Play strength and leverage at point of a attack isn’t great (despite great effort) on Man runs or Inside Zone (particularly with an early Combo block) right at him.

      ++++++++++++++

      Reminds me a ton of Maurice Hurst from Michigan (who only dropped from the 1st round due to the heart condition…we should have snagged him), but a bit more raw maybe. He’s sort of the Brian Burns of DTs.

      I just don’t see how he makes it to our 2nd round pick. There is too much here to support a 1st round grade. Maybe if he absolutely bombs the combine (I doubt it…his 10 yard split and 3 cone are likely to be fantastic)?

      We have a new number 1…

      1 (I DON’T FEEL LIKE THERE IS ANY WAY HE GETS TO OUR RD 2 PICK) – GERALD WILLIS (DT) MIAMI

      2a, 2b, 2c (THESE GUYS ARE ALL LATE 1ST OR EARLY 2ND RD) – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE), MICHAEL DEITER (OG), CHRIS LINDSTROM (OG)

      3 (MID SECOND) – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      4a, 4b, 4c (THESE GUYS ARE ALL BORDERLINE 2ND ROUND PLAYERS, MAYBE 3RD) – DEVIN BUSH (LB), MICHAEL JORDAN (C), and DALTON RISNER (RT)

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    • SaskBucs

      Participant
      Post count: 190

      Well I realize a lot can change between now and the draft, but it seems like there is a lot of talent on D and at the OG position to be had in the 2nd round. Very encouraging.

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    • BucNCane

      Participant
      Post count: 1064

      he Was a lot of fun to watch this year. That’s for sure.

      His biggest negatives for him are mostly off field. Dismissed from UF. Left UM for a year to get his life in order. Only 1 year of production.

      Seems to have worked but still a risk which may push him down a bit. At least I wish haha.

       

      Thanks for the review.

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    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1930

      Willis gets stuck on blocks a lot. There are a lot of really good D Lineman in this draft. I, for one, would not want Willis to be the one we end up with, especially spending a premium pick.

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    • BucNCane

      Participant
      Post count: 1064

      I’d love to go Greedy/Jonah first then Willis in the 2nd.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Willis gets stuck on blocks a lot. There are a lot of really good D Lineman in this draft. I, for one, would not want Willis to be the one we end up with, especially spending a premium pick.

      His Boston College tape isn’t as good as those other two games I reviewed above. But that is easily because of (a) their tight splits, (b) their great line (Chris Lindstrom was great – see above), and (c) the fact that they’re playing him in a lot of techs and a lot of calls that don’t have him just wrecking the B gap (that won’t happen in the NFL).

      I definitely wouldn’t say “a lot”, but it is an issue now and again in specific scenarios where he isn’t coming off of the ball vertically as a B gap penetrator and/or there is a mitigating scenario (BC’s tight splits and combo blocks on the interior).



      @BucNCane
      , ahh some off-field issues. Those are definitely some red flags that could push him down. Depends on how he interviews etc.

      Personally, Deiter and Lindstrom appear to be such clean and impactful prospects at such a profound position of need that I would be hard-pressed to move off of them. If we don’t get the RG position shored up this year, we’re going to struggle to score points again next year.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      I’d love to go Greedy/Jonah first then Willis in the 2nd.

      And either Risner (RT) or Pratt (ILB) in the 3rd would be a great haul. My preferred haul at this point (subject to change) would be:

      Greedy (CB)
      Deiter (OG)
      Pratt (ILB)

      DSmith is a virtual lock to be franchised (Licht).

      Sign Ja’Wuan James (27 and had a + year last year) to play RT if the numbers are reasonable.

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5853

      I thought you might like Willis, Nobody. He’s a talented guy.



      @Bucncane
      Has Willis has off the field problems at Miami?  I know about his stuff at Florida 4-5 years ago, which is why he’s in Miami now, but haven’t heard about anything since.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      I thought you might like Willis, Nobody. He’s a talented guy.

      @bucncane Has Willis has off the field problems at Miami? I know about his stuff at Florida 4-5 years ago, which is why he’s in Miami now, but haven’t heard about anything since.

      Extremely talented. And I love his motor, violence, and ability to finish. So many talented rushers aren’t great finishers.

      He remind you of Maurice Hurst too?

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    • Pennywise

      Participant
      Post count: 9734

      Not impressed with Willis, I guess if you pick the right game , don’t see it often enough, though

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5853

      I thought you might like Willis, Nobody. He’s a talented guy.

      @bucncane Has Willis has off the field problems at Miami? I know about his stuff at Florida 4-5 years ago, which is why he’s in Miami now, but haven’t heard about anything since.

      Extremely talented. And I love his motor, violence, and ability to finish. So many talented rushers aren’t great finishers.

      He remind you of Maurice Hurst too?

      Yeah, that’s a good comp.

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    • BucNCane

      Participant
      Post count: 1064

      Yea he left the team in 2017 to deal with family issues then came back to have 1 great season.

      so like @nobody said interviews will determine a lot. Also just the possibility of him coming into a great sum of money and those issues flaring back up might make him drop even into the 3rd if they’re bad enough.

      I think he’s Landon Collins half brother though so we just sign him as a FA and get Willis and boom. Defense is a strength. I’m just assuming either McCoy is gone or his salary is reduced and Allen, Unrein are gone.

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    • Pennywise

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      Post count: 9734

      99 is the guy on that dl, not 9

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    • BlackBeard

      Participant
      Post count: 24

      99 is the guy on that dl, not 9

      Joe Jackson is good too but Willis was far and away our best player on defense this year. He looked like a top 10 the first couple of months of the season.

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    • Gareth

      Participant
      Post count: 212

      Hey Nobody, Mack Wilson just declared, can you break him down and see where he fits in the list.

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    • dexmonkey

      Participant
      Post count: 1884

      id be pretty surprised if Willis was off the board in the 1st, stunned really considering his off the field issues

      IIRC he was thrown out of UF for fighting with a teammate over shoes. he hit Jameis in 2014 when he went OB and Willis threw an elbow at his head while standing on the sidelines and was tossed from the game. he missed a year at Miami to get his shit together

      god only knows what else went on that we dont know about. you dont toss a talented guy for fighting with a teammate once so you know there were other issues there

      i wouldnt be surprised to see him still there in the 3rd

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Hey Nobody, Mack Wilson just declared, can you break him down and see where he fits in the list.

      Really? Awesome. He looked to be great in coverage. He was projected late 1st or early 2nd, so I’ll put him in this mix.



      @dexmonkey
      , yeah, my eval was strictly on the field. Given you guys’ depictions of his issues, it definitely sounds like he’ll slide a little bit. He’s also 23 years old. That will also go into the draft position formulation. If he’s there in the 3rd, I don’t know how you don’t pull the trigger (unless his interview et al just lead to him being off of your draft board).

      Please wait…

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Hey Nobody, Mack Wilson just declared, can you break him down and see where he fits in the list.

      Really? Awesome. He looked to be great in coverage. He was projected late 1st or early 2nd, so I’ll put him in this mix.

      @dexmonkey , yeah, my eval was strictly on the field. Given you guys’ depictions of his issues, it definitely sounds like he’ll slide a little bit. He’s also 23 years old. That will also go into the draft position formulation. If he’s there in the 3rd, I don’t know how you don’t pull the trigger (unless his interview et al just lead to him being off of your draft board).

      All I know about him [Willis] is major “academic probs” He wouldn’t be the first NFL player to go through that. And that is not important at all once he gets in the league.
      Current NFL players have done much worse than him, and still got drafted high.

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    • dexmonkey

      Participant
      Post count: 1884

      Hey Nobody, Mack Wilson just declared, can you break him down and see where he fits in the list.

      Really? Awesome. He looked to be great in coverage. He was projected late 1st or early 2nd, so I’ll put him in this mix.

      @dexmonkey , yeah, my eval was strictly on the field. Given you guys’ depictions of his issues, it definitely sounds like he’ll slide a little bit. He’s also 23 years old. That will also go into the draft position formulation. If he’s there in the 3rd, I don’t know how you don’t pull the trigger (unless his interview et al just lead to him being off of your draft board).

      All I know about him [Willis] is major “academic probs” He wouldn’t be the first NFL player to go through that. And that is not important at all once he gets in the league.

      Current NFL players have done much worse than him, and still got drafted high.

      true but academic problems are a red flag for me. makes me worry he wont put in the work in the meeting room etc. wont understand the playbook and the defense. makes the interview process so incredibly key

      i dont want a guy who isnt going to know his assignments because he doesnt like to study film, playbooks etc. now if hes into film study and all that and just isnt into school classes, is bad at math, whatever, then thats another thing because it doesnt apply to football

      Please wait…

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Hey Nobody, Mack Wilson just declared, can you break him down and see where he fits in the list.

      Really? Awesome. He looked to be great in coverage. He was projected late 1st or early 2nd, so I’ll put him in this mix.

      @dexmonkey , yeah, my eval was strictly on the field. Given you guys’ depictions of his issues, it definitely sounds like he’ll slide a little bit. He’s also 23 years old. That will also go into the draft position formulation. If he’s there in the 3rd, I don’t know how you don’t pull the trigger (unless his interview et al just lead to him being off of your draft board).

      All I know about him [Willis] is major “academic probs” He wouldn’t be the first NFL player to go through that. And that is not important at all once he gets in the league.

      Current NFL players have done much worse than him, and still got drafted high.

      true but academic problems are a red flag for me. makes me worry he wont put in the work in the meeting room etc. wont understand the playbook and the defense. makes the interview process so incredibly key

      i dont want a guy who isnt going to know his assignments because he doesnt like to study film, playbooks etc. now if hes into film study and all that and just isnt into school classes, is bad at math, whatever, then thats another thing because it doesnt apply to football

      Fair point, but without mentioning any names, a couple Buc greats were dumb as a rock.

      Please wait…

    • dexmonkey

      Participant
      Post count: 1884

      Hey Nobody, Mack Wilson just declared, can you break him down and see where he fits in the list.

      Really? Awesome. He looked to be great in coverage. He was projected late 1st or early 2nd, so I’ll put him in this mix.

      @dexmonkey , yeah, my eval was strictly on the field. Given you guys’ depictions of his issues, it definitely sounds like he’ll slide a little bit. He’s also 23 years old. That will also go into the draft position formulation. If he’s there in the 3rd, I don’t know how you don’t pull the trigger (unless his interview et al just lead to him being off of your draft board).

      All I know about him [Willis] is major “academic probs” He wouldn’t be the first NFL player to go through that. And that is not important at all once he gets in the league.

      Current NFL players have done much worse than him, and still got drafted high.

      true but academic problems are a red flag for me. makes me worry he wont put in the work in the meeting room etc. wont understand the playbook and the defense. makes the interview process so incredibly key

      i dont want a guy who isnt going to know his assignments because he doesnt like to study film, playbooks etc. now if hes into film study and all that and just isnt into school classes, is bad at math, whatever, then thats another thing because it doesnt apply to football

      Fair point, but without mentioning any names, a couple Buc greats were dumb as a rock.

      oh i wouldnt be surprised. there are guys in the NFL that can barely write their own names on a check but theyre absolutely brilliant when it comes to football. im taking players that can play football, not write a thesis on molecular physics. its a plus to me if theyre really intelligent in other areas but first and foremost they need to be football smart

      ive seen a ton of brilliant guys come and go because they werent football smart

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    • Diehard Astheycome

      Participant
      Post count: 447

      What’s it matter? We had 3 last year and   the person I’ve never disliked so much that’s ever been a part of our organization totally screwed that up. Guys blame Dirk for not playing another great stud in Cappa.This guy could be given 15 of the top 50 picks and he’d screw it up!!This team won’t get to a SB with him as GM! NEVER! New coaches may get a playoff appearance or two but he’ll never build a “ COMPLETE “ championship team!Im a draft fanatic, always have been and I think it’s why I have such distaste for him.Trading up for PK and DIII linemen. Like they were off the board within the next 2-3 picks.MJ Stewart before Carlton Davis?? What??

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    • Diehard Astheycome

      Participant
      Post count: 447

      Thank you for this, I was just about to ask for some second round offensive linemen. In the first three rounds I would hope to come away with D line, O line and CB…

      nobody….How do you chimed in on the Arians potential hiring?

      I’m a mixture of conflicted and agnostic on Arians.

      Obviously he’s a fantastic coach in all the various ways that matter. He’ll have good assistants.

      But what is his health situation (he’s a few years older than when they first reared their ugly head)? How long do we have? 1 year? 2 years? More?

      He runs a very similar offense to Dirks and they had red zone problems as well. Are we going to see a lot of the avante garde running game stuff that has helped so many teams in the Red Zone?

      This is a nepotism hire that gets Licht a pass which frustrates me.

      So conflicted agnostic.

      Exactly!!! I’ve never seen a worse drafting GM in all my life. So Arians “ might” be a better coach. However he’ll be 70 by the time this GM completes out the roster.The 2022 draft Bucs needs: LT,G,CB,LB,DE!!

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    • Pepsi

      Participant
      Post count: 2047

      I also love Lindstrom. As good as Greedy is, I think id be looking to go back to back Oline this year. Jonah Williams and Chris Lindstrom. Greedy may have quickest impact but a young and good Oline would be the back bone of a playoff caliber Bucs for years.

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    • BucNCane

      Participant
      Post count: 1064

      I rarely homer but if you have extra time can you breakdown Michael Jackson and Joe Jackson on canes too. Also possible 2nd td guys in case we go like Jonah Williams or ed Oliver rd 1.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      I rarely homer but if you have extra time can you breakdown Michael Jackson and Joe Jackson on canes too. Also possible 2nd td guys in case we go like Jonah Williams or ed Oliver rd 1.

      Looks like both of those guys are late 1st-ish. I’ll do them in the off-chance they drop or we trade back.

      Let me get through Mack and the other two CBs first and I’ll take a look.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      MACK WILSON VS OLE MISS AND GEORGE 2018

      Traits I see…

      THE GOOD

      * Extremely fluid, controlled, yet sudden athlete.

      * His Zone drops post ZRO play-action (or general play-action) are really great. Fast, fluid, and head on a swivel.

      * Instinctive in Zone coverage (moving and playing the ball) or in space generally (eg such as Spying or getting quickly out of Zone coverage to attack a QB who is attacking the LoS).

      * Solid tackler in space.

      * Solid Man coverage on RBs.

      THE BAD

      * Instincts in run fits aren’t great. I see him sometimes (a) not get downhill quickly enough and perform his fit, (b) sometimes loose the ball in the wash and a runner will go right by him, (c) be indecisive in how to take on a 2nd level blocker (he won’t be a stack/shed guy, but he seems reluctant or unsure about getting into the blocker decisively with the correct shoulder to deliver the blow and make sure his correct half of his body is available to make the tackle or fill). Often times I see him attempting to evade 2nd level blockers rather than getting downhill decisively and taking them on correctly while performing his fit.

      * Can sometimes take poor pursuit angles to ball carriers when the run play/Screen attacks the edge.

      * While motor is good, aggression (be it when using his hands to disengage w/ blockers or take on ball carriers) is inconsistent.

      * Just an average finisher on blitzes/delayed blitzes (they sent him plenty). Able to get picked off by running backs stepping up a bit too easily.

      ++++++++++++

      I like him. I can see the reason for the high projection. But there are things I don’t like about him and I definitely like Pratt for the value in the 3rd round better. And honestly, I’m not sure I don’t just like Pratt flat better than what I see from Wilson here (I actually think I do). As a converted Safety, I see run fit instinct issues with Pratt as well, but I see (a) more aggression/decisiveness and (b) better ability to take on 2nd level blockers currently. And better coverage (and the shown ability to handle difficult slot assignments in Man).

      Given that Pratt is almost certainly going to be available in rd 3 (unless he kills the combine) and the drop-off from Deither/Lindstrom to the next tier of OGs is sure to be steep, it would be difficult to move me off of Deither/Lindstrom in rd 2 and Pratt in rd 3 (in terms of the intersection of BPA and need) regardless of whether its DL, OT Williams, or Greedy in rd 1.

      1 – GERALD WILLIS (DT)

      2a, 2b, 2c – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE), MICHAEL DEITER (OG), CHRIS LINDSTROM (OG)

      3 – MACK WILSON (ILB)

      4 – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      5a, 5b, 5c – DEVIN BUSH (LB), MICHAEL JORDAN (C), and DALTON RISNER (RT)

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Couple more thoughts.

      1) I like Mack Wilson more than what I saw from Devin White.

      2) If you want to compare him to Kwon, I would say he is (a) less aggressive and decisive in the run game and less of a finisher behind the LoS, but (b) infinitely more instinctive/disciplined/in-control in his movements (so a much better movement player generally) and (c) many times more instinctive coverage player.

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    • chace1986

      Participant
      Post count: 210

      Germaine Pratt.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Germaine Pratt.

      Correct. That is the guy I like in the 3rd round. I’ll do my 3rd – 5th round review after I’m done with this one.

      I looked at him a bit early (because I was perusing ILBs) and, at this point, he feels like immense value at 3rd round.

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      5: R1P5     OT   JAWAAN TAYLOR  FLORIDA
      39: R2P7   CB  AMANI ORUWARIYE   PENN STATE
      70: R3P6    OG   MICHAEL DEITER   WISCONSIN
      107: R4P5   LB   GERMAINE PRATT   NC STATE
      146: R5P7    S  WILL HARRIS   BOSTON COLLEGE

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      Remain intimately at the heart of experience.

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Alright, going to start working on this again.

      FYI – THIS WILL SERVE 2ND AND 3RD ROUND SO I’M GOING TO DO SEVERAL MORE PROSPECTS IN THIS THREAD. I DON’T WANT TO ATTEMPT TO UPDATE THE LEAD POST OR THE THREAD WILL LIKELY POOF.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      AMANI ORUWARIYE – CB – PENN STATE VS IOWA AND PITT 2018

      I’m seeing a fair amount of Press Man, no real Press Bail, some Off Backpedal.

      Traits I saw…

      THE GOOD

      * Great size and length.

      * + fluidity and movement skills for that size and length.

      * Press is good both in route disruption and mirroring.

      * Very disciplined. He isn’t biting on false keys the receiver is showing him; not getting his hips flipped falsely or being inefficient in his footwork.

      * Zone awareness and route combo recognition is clearly + (looks like they play Qs and C3Z when they do go Zone so its a lot of matchup and Deep 1/3).

      * Aggressive and capable when the ball is in the air. Fights through hands to make the PBU and generally makes a solid play on the ball when its there.

      THE BAD

      * Good but not a dynamically explosive athlete. Plus, but not particularly sudden. His plant and drive in Off Coverage Digs/Hitches or underneath routes is plus, but not devastating (however, its mitigated by his awareness and route combo recognition, which is very high).

      * Can be a little stiff in transitions out of backpedal when he’s in Off coverage and dealing with a hard vert challenge and Comeback or something underneath or when transitioning to run support.

      * Run support decisiveness and fundamentals aren’t consistent.

      +++++++++++++++++

      Does this look like my Greedy Williams eval? It should. Extremely similar players, Greedy just has a little bit more height and length to him and looks to be a little better transitioning out of his backpedal while Oruwariye is much more solidly built (and that shows in Press Disruption). Big, long CB with pretty fluid movement skills, good discipline (he isn’t jumping feints/false stems and is typically able to make a play on the ball), good and aggressive ball skills, and some lack of decisiveness/aggression in run support (both in getting downhill and taking on pullers with the correct shoulder to force the ball back inside of him).

      He looks similar to our Carlton Davis. Same sort of weaknesses and strengths, but he is a much better Zone player and has better movement skills overall.

      Looks like a late 1st or early 2nd round CB. If he performs well at the combine, I’d expect him to go in the late 20s overall.

      ++++++++++++++++

      GOING TO MOVE SOME GUYS AROUND DUE TO AGE…

      1 – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE)

      2 – GERALD WILLIS (DT)

      3 – MICHAEL DEITER (OG)

      4 – AMANI ORUWARIYE (CB)

      5 – CHRIS LINDSTROM (OG)

      6 – MACK WILSON (ILB)

      7 – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      8 – DEVIN BUSH (LB)

      9 – DALTON RISNER (RT)

      10 – MICHAEL JORDAN (C)

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      I saw a mock this morning from a well respected NFL guy and he has the Bucs taking a RB @ #5.

      [looking for gun to the head emoji]

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    • Buc on the Move

      Participant
      Post count: 1488

      Yeah AJ that was pretty brutal to read.  Why even pretend to try?

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    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3309

      Nobody, you don’t do quarterbacks?

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    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13938

      I saw a mock this morning from a well respected NFL guy and he has the Bucs taking a RB @ #5.

      [looking for gun to the head emoji]

      Smh…

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    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3309

      I saw a mock this morning from a well respected NFL guy and he has the Bucs taking a RB @ #5.

      [looking for gun to the head emoji]

      Saw another one of many CBS mocks that had Bucs trading 8 spots down with Miami.  No mention of what Miami would give us for doing that.  Miami trades up to take the QB Daniel Jones at 5!  The Bucs ended up taking the safety Thompson.  This deal makes no sense for either side.

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      I saw a mock this morning from a well respected NFL guy and he has the Bucs taking a RB @ #5.

      [looking for gun to the head emoji]

      Saw another one of many CBS mocks that had Bucs trading 8 spots down with Miami. No mention of what Miami would give us for doing that. Miami trades up to take the QB Daniel Jones at 5! The Bucs ended up taking the safety Thompson. This deal makes no sense for either side.

      @AJ

      You would need an emoji that handed out guns to thousands of Bucs fans emoji (for a communal brain-blowing-outing).

      @Roy

      We would get their 2nd and 3rd and give them our 5th.

      As far as reviewing QBs, only for fun (I did Mayfield last year personally, but not on here) as they don’t apply to us right now.

      If we’re in the market for one next year, I’ll review the QBs then.

      Please wait…

    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3309

      I saw a mock this morning from a well respected NFL guy and he has the Bucs taking a RB @ #5.

      [looking for gun to the head emoji]

      Saw another one of many CBS mocks that had Bucs trading 8 spots down with Miami. No mention of what Miami would give us for doing that. Miami trades up to take the QB Daniel Jones at 5! The Bucs ended up taking the safety Thompson. This deal makes no sense for either side.

      @AJ

      You would need an emoji that handed out guns to thousands of Bucs fans emoji (for a communal brain-blowing-outing).

      @Roy

      We would get their 2nd and 3rd and give them our 5th.

      As far as reviewing QBs, only for fun (I did Mayfield last year personally, but not on here) as they don’t apply to us right now.

      If we’re in the market for one next year, I’ll review the QBs then.

      I disagree. I think there’s a good chance we pick one in the 2nd or 3rd, because of the murky Winston contract situation after this year.  If he has an off year you don’t want to sign him, and if he has a good year you may have a tough time resigning him.  A franchise tag is going to be $30 million?  Arians may want to draft a guy to develop for down the road.  If we trade down for another 2nd or 3rd that makes it even more likely.

      I’m not thinking about the name guys Grier or Finley who are probably career backups in the NFL.  I’m thinking about somebody like Thorson, or Rypien who have an arm and athleticism and some smarts who can be developed.

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      If we trade back, I could see it. If we don’t trade back and we spend a precious resource on a QB w/ all of the holes that this roster has…and all the available talent to address that talent deficit in the 2nd and 3rd round (OG, CB, RT, LB)?

      That would be such a Licht thing to do.

      I’ve turned this into a 2nd and 3rd round thread, so give me 1 QB you’d like looked at and I’ll review when I have time.

      Just FYI, finding games (I have access to some endzone view replays due to ESPNU) that let you really review a QB’s pre-snap adjudication and post-snap processing (the most important aspects of QBing) is really difficult. But I’ll do my best.

      Please wait…

      • Roy

        Participant
        Post count: 3309

        If we trade back, I could see it. If we don’t trade back and we spend a precious resource on a QB w/ all of the holes that this roster has…and all the available talent to address that talent deficit in the 2nd and 3rd round (OG, CB, RT, LB)?

        That would be such a Licht thing to do.

        I’ve turned this into a 2nd and 3rd round thread, so give me 1 QB you’d like looked at and I’ll review when I have time.

        Just FYI, finding games (I have access to some endzone view replays due to ESPNU) that let you really review a QB’s pre-snap adjudication and post-snap processing (the most important aspects of QBing) is really difficult. But I’ll do my best.

        Great.  I think it would be more of an Arians/Leftwich decision rather than Licht.  If they want to a QB to whisper, Licht will get one.

        I’ll say Clayton Thorson.   He has had some struggles, recovering from knee injury.  I’d be interested if you think inconsistency is because of poor recievers or poor throwing.

        Please wait…

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Its hard for me to envision drafting a QB at ANY point in the 2019 draft.
      If Jameis was to implode big time with poor play and/or arrest, that would mean the team went 2-14 or something like that in 2019.
      So then that would be the opportunity to snag a QB in the 2020 draft early on.

      Please wait…

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089


      Jameis Winston

      Verified account

      @Jaboowins
      2m
      2 minutes ago

      More
      Success is in the struggle! Can’t stop striving for the best me! #dedicated
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    • Team Pteranodon

      Participant
      Post count: 686

      It’s great Winston found success in the struggle, but I would rather he find it on the football field.

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    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3309

      Its hard for me to envision drafting a QB at ANY point in the 2019 draft.

      If Jameis was to implode big time with poor play and/or arrest, that would mean the team went 2-14 or something like that in 2019.

      So then that would be the opportunity to snag a QB in the 2020 draft early on.

      Here’s my thinking.  Last year we were in win now or go home mode.  Licht was plugging leaks as fast as he could but not fast enough before the ship went down.

      You all are still stuck in the win or die mode of last year, but things are different now.  We have a new coach with a four year contract and a new offensive coordinator.  They say they have the pieces to win now, but they are here for 4/5 years and will be trying to build something.  (Not Licht, but Licht has one job at this point and that is to make Arians happy.)  So if you want to predict what the Bucs are going to do you need to shift your mentality to match that of the new regime.

      They will be trying to get players who will fit into their long term plans, and of course nothing is more important than a QB.  You can’t justify using a 1st round pick on one, not with the underwhelming crop this year, but you can justify a 2nd or 3rd round pick…if the right guy is there.

      That’s the question to be answered.  Will there be a quarterback who is developmental/future starter available on Day 2,  rather than the career backup types?

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      I don’t think ANYTHING about Arians screams “long term”
      He is just here to right the ship. get things pn the right track.
      That is why his assistants are so important. One of them will be taking over sooner rather than later.
      Arians himself said just the other day, if the Bucs were to win a championship in year 2, he is out of here. That does not exactly sound like he is thinking long term.
      Just my $0.02

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    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3309

      I don’t think ANYTHING about Arians screams “long term”

      He is just here to right the ship. get things pn the right track.

      That is why his assistants are so important. One of them will be taking over sooner rather than later.

      Arians himself said just the other day, if the Bucs were to win a championship in year 2, he is out of here. That does not exactly sound like he is thinking long term.

      Just my $0.02

      Yes but that is somewhat coach-speak.  They aren’t stripping down and rebuilding, but you don’t right the ship by thinking short term.    Even if he’s not going to get there with us, he still wants us to get to the promised land.  (Like my MLK reference on MLK weekend?)  He’s got his guy Leftwich in there and he’s going to want to set him up for success. What screams louder than some words to the press is his contract.

      I’m just thinking of a Garrapolo/Cousins type.

      Please wait…

    • SaskBucs

      Participant
      Post count: 190

      Keep the team building analysis in a different thread! I’m here for prospect review.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      And now for the last of the guys that I initially had planned to cover strictly for Round 2. I’m going to get into prospective round 3 guys after this (some of which may be above these guys that I’ve initially reviewed for 2).

      TRAYVON MULLEN (CB) VS DUKE AND TEXAS A&M 2018

      Traits I see…

      THE GOOD

      * Good size and length.

      * + Reroute technique and route disruption from Press.

      * Solid bail technique when in Cover 4 or Cover 3.

      * Fundamentally sound, willing, and reliable tackler in the open field and in run support.

      * When in position to make a play, instincts, physicality, length and ball skills are + .

      * Followed # 1 around and this meant some experience playing on the inside.

      THE BAD

      * Movement skills aren’t great overall; stiffness in the hips means he has a propensity to have to commit early and get flipped and his transitions aren’t great, omnidirectional lack of short area quickness (I don’t see him driving, exploding north vertically out of press, or breaking on in/out-cuts).

      * Due to the above, I see him lose contact a bit and/or getting overly grabby/physical beyond 5 yards. I expect to see that draw some bad flags at the next level. Especially without…

      * …that 1 gap Clemson over front is pretty devastating and the amount of pressure means they don’t have to hold up as long on the back end.

      * They play some C1M and C2M when they blitz, but they’re playing a ton of Quarters and C3Z so its difficult to positively project his ability to play Man on the boundary at the next level (especially given the negative traits above).

      ++++++++++++++

      This player scares me a little. Somewhat difficult to project and his negative trait are a little bit “red flagg-ey” to me. Could turn out to be a great C3Z Press > Bail CB at the next level…could turn out to struggle hard in the NFL.

      Personally, I’d stay away in the first 2 rounds unless I was an overwhelmingly C3Z scheme (and even then I’d have pause).

      GOING TO MOVE SOME GUYS AROUND DUE TO AGE…

      1 – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE)

      2 – GERALD WILLIS (DT)

      3 – MICHAEL DEITER (OG)

      4 – AMANI ORUWARIYE (CB)

      5 – MACK WILSON (ILB)

      6 – CHRIS LINDSTROM (OG)

      7 – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      8 – DEVIN BUSH (LB)

      9 – TRAYVON MULLEN (CB)

      10 – DALTON RISNER (RT)

      11 – MICHAEL JORDAN (C)

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      GERMAINE PRATT (LB) VS CLEMSON AND GEORGIA STATE 2018

      I’m just going to say this right now. Pratt, on tape, looks like a better version of Kwon Alexander. He’s got Kwon’s strengths and doesn’t show Kwon’s weaknesses (easily manipulated with false keys, poor pursuit angles, terrible in underneath Zone).

      Traits I see…

      THE GOOD

      * Good size and length while having terrific range and short area burst (north > south and laterally).

      * + processing…reads his keys and gets where he needs to be routinely (rarely out of position).

      * As a converted Safety, his man coverage skills are + both on slot players and RBs.

      * + Delayed and Green Dog blitzer.

      * Very good feel for underneath coverage (gets to landmark and defends threats).

      * + open field tackler and comes with thump.

      * Versatile, they had him lined up all over the place…instincts, athleticism, assignment soundness were + wherever.

      THE BAD

      * He isn’t a natural A gap plugger. Functional strength, but not dominating when filling and having to deal with a 1st level Guard or Center immediately peeling from a combo block while simultaneously having to disrupt a ball carrier or make the tackle.

      * Inconsistent in dealing w/ 2nd level OL…sometimes stacks or shocks and sheds well or takes on w/ correct shoulder…other times, not so great.

      * This is either a personal tendency or an NC State tendency, but plays outside leverage like crazy in Man coverage. This could potentially get him into trouble at the next level w/ explosive slot/RBs and Angle routes, Option routes, or Pivot routes back to the middle (in trouble as in grabbing and holding at the stem).

      * There is a little hip stiffness in his transitions, but he’s explosive laterally regardless. I can just see this potentially being an issue now and again with the outside leverage play in Man cited above (and in-cuts/pivots) or in the quick play-action game in the NFL w/ a TE on a Bow through his Zone when he has Seam responsibility.

      ++++++++++++++++++

      I think some people may project him as an off-ball pursuit player at the next level. But given how often teams are in Nickel (70 %), I like him as the off-ball stacked LB opposite LVD and I think he’ll be fine in base defense.

      1 – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE)

      2 – GERALD WILLIS (DT)

      3 – MICHAEL DEITER (OG)

      4 – AMANI ORUWARIYE (CB)

      5 – MACK WILSON (ILB)

      6 – CHRIS LINDSTROM (OG)

      7 – GERMAINE PRATT (LB)

      8 – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      9 – DEVIN BUSH (LB)

      10 – TRAYVON MULLEN (CB)

      11 – DALTON RISNER (RT)

      12 – MICHAEL JORDAN (C)

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    • Gareth

      Participant
      Post count: 212

       

      After watching the senior bowl 1vs1 sessions I have really liked Khalen Saunders he is squatty and powerful but suprisingly fluid he goes full speed all the time and has been giving people fits. The backflips look like just a plus

       

      Also Charles Omenihu looked real good he even put Deiter on his ass. He looks like a prototype 5 tech and excels at stacking and shedding.

      What are everyones thoughts on these guys I see them as late round guys that can carve out a niche.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Hmmm…Omenihu looks like a projected 3rd-ish. I just checked him out briefly. I think I’ll review him next.

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    • Gareth

      Participant
      Post count: 212

      I am ALL OUT on Deiter he has been picking himself off the ground all day so far at the senior Bowl. If Quinnen and John Allen are gone at 5 trade down with Denver. Trade our first and 5th rounders for picks 10 41 and 71.

       

      10 -Devin White

      39- Amani Ouwaiye

      41- Chris Lindstrom

      70- Tytus Howard

      71- Jalen Jelks

      100- Rodney Anderson

      Thoughts?

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      My thoughts:

      1) I loved both Deiter and Lindstrom (as I noted upthread, both of their actual football tape is fantastic), so I’d be fine with either.

      2) I haven’t watched the Senior Bowl workouts yet, so I’m not sure of what you’re referring to. If it’s 1v1 pass rush, I’d pump the brakes. 1v1 pass rush is good work, but it doesn’t translate to actual games in anything bearing a 1:1 fashion. (A) Rushers have a 3 way go rather than actual gap responsibility and a line call, (B) fatigue doesn’t come in, (C) they’re playing in nearly infinite space with no collateral impacts (completely unlike football).

      So it’s good work and certainly reveals traits and technique of both players, but it’s not remotely red flag territory or break out territory. DL that dominate 1v1 Pass Rush may not do a lick of work in games and the inverse is true for OL who may struggle a bit.

      That being said, it’s ALWAYS revealing if an OL actually performs well. If Lindstom performed well, that has to move him up the draft board, because one of my few concerns was BC’s narrow splits, constant help, and their proliferate PA Pass game and Pass Sets.

      3) Not sure you checked out my 1st round thread. I was disappointed with Devin White as I was looking forward to his tape. See here: https://www.pewterreport.com/forums/topic/2019-1st-round-pick-prospects-review/page/4/#post-1149140

      I have major concerns about projecting him as a cover player in the NFL (among other concerns). So, personally, I really don’t like him at 10 (especially considering thevlikely opportunity cost).

      4) I love your 39 and 41 picks (as you can see in this thread. I’m somewhat familiar with Jelks and I really like him (though I’m not sure he lasts that long after a likely great combine…he’s in the same boat as Burns).

      5) I’m completely ignorant on the other two players, so no opinion.

       

      Personally, sub any of the early DL for White and sub LB Germaine Pratt for Howard and that draft would be huge.

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    • Gareth

      Participant
      Post count: 212

      @nobody

      I did read your breakdown on Devin White im just personally a little higher on him as I think he would be a great player compliment to LVD.

       

      On Deiter at the Senior Bowl. During my playing career I was an iOL and always hated 1v1 pass rush as the D-line has such a huge advantage. That being said it is a great place to see the tendancies and fundamental technique of the o-line instead of winning or losing the rep.

      What I have seen from Deiter is alot of bad habits. More often than not his elbows flare out when he is making contact causing his punch to miss centre mass and be weak and he has a habit of shooting his hands too soon (in an effort to make up for his lack of length) allowing his hands to be defeated and the defender getting hands inside. On many occasions I have see Deiter not deliver a blow, catch the bull rush and find himself on the turf.

       

      Lindstrom comes out of his stance with his knees bent, elbows tight and hands ready to deliver a blow. He has been the one delivering the blow with his hands inside and doing it consistantly. He has done a fairly good job mirroring which I was worried about due to Boston Colleges offensive scheme.

      Lindstrom reminds me alot of Joel Bitonio

       

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      @Gareth

      Good post. Lindstrom is definitely the cleaner prospect technically (you can see that in the tape). If he performed well in 1v1s, that is a strong case to move him up. I’d love to have him here.

      On White, I’m at the point now where I need to see LBs play Mid, Hook, Flat Zone (and play it well) and defend Slot and RBs 1v1 (well) at the college level. LSU brackets RBs when the run Man and plays Qs and Man overwhelmingly (while sending the WILB, White, a lot). So I don’t know how to buy into him as a Coverage player when you just don’t see him do it much at all at LSU.

      What is your position on that (projecting players for key roles that they didn’t perform in college)?

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    • Gareth

      Participant
      Post count: 212

      It is always tricky when projecting traits or skills that players are not called on alot to do in college. Was it a schematic coaching decision such as not having Carleton Davis play press coverage, or is it because they suck at doing it such as Ronald Jones never catching the ball at USC.

       

      When it comes to Devin White he seems to have a high enough football IQ which is the first part of being good in zone. If you are smart and can understand the route concept on the fly that is the mental half of the battle. Another big factor for judging this is physical, if White tests well and looks fluid in the coverage drills at the combine. After all this I would bring him in for a workout/ interview. If he shows the mental processing and the movement skills I see no reason why he cant be adequate in coverage when asked to but can also be a thumper inside for this team.

      Also I don’t see Bowles running alot of Tampa Two with the Mike running the alley.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      I think you have more faith in his football IQ and innate understanding of spatial relationships than I do.

      At LSU, he is:

      * Playing bracket Man on RB if they play C1M or matchup Qs if he isn’t blitzing.

      * Blitzing (which they have that position doing a lot, either Green Dog, Delayed, or just coming).

      His role in that defense isn’t terribly demanding from an overhead perspective as far as I can tell and his role in MQ and Bracketing an RB isn’t that physically demanding either.

      As far as Bowles Defense goes, they run a lot of Cover 2 Zone, Cover 2 Trap Zone (with pressure coming from the NCB off the slot or the WLB, while the open Corner is reading the slot receiver and trying to break on a hot Hitch or Out), 2 Man Under, and C1 Blitz. In 2013, he ran more C3Z.

      If he comes into this defense, it’s going to be considerably more demanding (mentally and physically in terms of coverage) than LSU’s simplified D. 24 Nickel and Dime will see him playing over the weak side A gap (being responsible for it a fair bit depending on the DL line call), while simultaneously having to play a lot of Mid and Hook/Seam Zone and covering the likes of Kamara/McCaffrey in Man if he isn’t blitzing.

      I just don’t confident spending that kind of capital on a player that I’m unsure can cover (and honestly, his pursuit/flow game and blitz game wasn’t overwhelming either…good for sure…but not staggering).

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    • Gareth

      Participant
      Post count: 212

      I know I’m higher than you on White it may just be me wanting a tone setter at MLB for this team.

      What about if Allen is there and we follow the set picks.

       

      5- Josh Allen

      39- Lindstrom

      70- Pratt

      100- Tutus Howard (I think you will really like him, is a little small but has exceptional feet and hand placement.

      134- Daylon Mack

      164- Mark Rypien

      This wouldnt fill as many holes immediately but would give us 3 starters at major holes

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      I love those first 3 players.

      And at this point you probably have a good feel for what I like in OL so my guess is, you’re right, in that I’ll like Howard (I’ll have to check him out…I’m just starting on working my way through 3rd and 4th round…I’ve been slacking a bit).

      However, (a) personally I’m of the opinion that rounds 5 and later need to be spent on LB, DB, and RB (for Special Teams, depth, and to hopefully catch a diamond in the rough) and (b) this team really needs depth at DB and LB. But I don’t have an opinion on Mack or Rypien.

      Regardless, if we came away with that top of the draft it would have to be considered a win.

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    • Pennywise

      Participant
      Post count: 9734

      Mark Rypien?

      I like Brett he is a younger than his uncle….been on the Brett wagon for months

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    • 60 min

      Blocked
      Post count: 63

      Nobody do you have any sort of review on Jaylon Ferguson? If not would you do one, its looking like he will move into the first round, maybe even a top 3,4,5 edge.

      Might need to make it an individual review, its hard to find things in here.  thx

       

       

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Nobody do you have any sort of review on Jaylon Ferguson? If not would you do one, its looking like he will move into the first round, maybe even a top 3,4,5 edge.

      Might need to make it an individual review, its hard to find things in here. thx

      I don’t. I was thinking of revisiting my 1st round thread and doing a few more guys in case of a trade-back. This is a guy (who at first glance reminds me a bit of JPP…wins similarly, has similar limitations in edge-bending) who I was thinking about doing when I go back to that.

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    • tampaspicer

      Participant
      Post count: 3476

      Nobody do you have any sort of review on Jaylon Ferguson? If not would you do one, its looking like he will move into the first round, maybe even a top 3,4,5 edge.

      Might need to make it an individual review, its hard to find things in here. thx

      I don’t. I was thinking of revisiting my 1st round thread and doing a few more guys in case of a trade-back. This is a guy (who at first glance reminds me a bit of JPP…wins similarly, has similar limitations in edge-bending) who I was thinking about doing when I go back to that.

      The only game I watched him play was the bowl game against Hawaii when he broke the NCAA sack record. He played until he broke the record and was dominant. If he wasn’t  double teamed he was disruptive. Would like to see a review of him too.

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    • Gareth

      Participant
      Post count: 212

      @nobody

      At 39 if Lindstrom and Dillard and Oruwariye are there who are you taking.

       

      My preference would be Dillard and try and get a RG in free agency.

       

       

      Also can you do a breakdown of Dillard maybe you are seeing what I am seeing, exceptional fundamentals but could use a little more strength and finish.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      No opinion on Dillard at the moment. I’ll review him and throw him in this mix.

      But I really really like the two guys you just named, so he needs to be high floor and at least + ceiling.

      I’ll answer your question after I see him. I think I’m going to try to do Gary in the 1st round and probably Dillard in this thread tonight.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Just saw your comment on Dillard in the Practices. It’s interesting (in a head-scratcher kind of way). Deiter’s and Dillard’s actual game tape defy what seems to be happening at the Senior Bowl practices this week.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      When the condensed Senior Bowl is available I’m going to watch that and take another look at some of these guys (maybe moving them subtly up or down based on performance).

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      I still have to do Garrett Bradbury’s actual gametape, but I’m going to just review the Senior Bowl performances of the OL that I’ve done so far in this thread, starting with the guy I just looked at; Bradbury.

      Play by Play 1st drive for ANDRE DILLARD @ SENIOR BOWL. Just grading the snaps +2 to -2 w/ 0 being “as expected.”

      1) Pass pro singled vs 5 tech. Lack of anchor (see above) means he’s pushed right into Grier’s lap…pretty easily at that. Pressure but Grier gets the ball out as Dillard is pushed into him. -1

      2) Man run that comes off of his side. Single on 5 tech occupies him and generates about 1 yard of displacement before shed. This is enough to generate a run win. +1

      3) Doubles 5 tech in pass pro w/ TE. Nothing really happening here. Aware enough to peel a delayed blitzer, but nothing really happening here (and the pick up wasn’t great nor was it consequential). 0

      4) Singled vs 6 tech in pass pro. Solid footwork/hands; rides him outside of the C arc. +1

      5) Man Lead Lead away from him and he is singled on a 7 tech. Despite it not being PoA, really good job here in all technical aspects, keeps legs moving, occupies him so he can’t pursue for duration. +2

      6) Quick Set pass pro against 5 tech. Ball is out instantly, but this is really good technique and does the job. +1

      7) Bad job by them in their presentation on this one (camera is everywhere and poor), but it looks like a Zone run toward Dillard. From the little I could tell, he helps the TE 1st level (they generate displacement) and then he climbs 2nd level, finds his man and wins. +1

      8) Zone run that cuts back to Dillard’s side. The run is productive, but Dillard doesn’t do anything here. He fails to climb 2nd level while he was uncovered and his brief hand to help the TE doesn’t do anything here. -1

      9) Inside Zone. Same exact deal as above (uncovered – quick help and 2nd level climb/peel), except Dillard’s lack of 2nd level climb to his man is the reason the play isn’t successful (his man makes the play). -2

      10) Power O away from Dillard (LG pulling). He’s singled on a 6 tech and just has to seal him away from the play. Good job. +1

      11) Single Quick Set (play-action) Pass Pro vs 6 tech. Footwork, hands both good. Initial anchor is insufficient, but his reanchor is sufficient (which is a good sign). +1

      12) Vertical Pass Set vs 6 tech. Wins with footwork and hands. Completely shuts him down.
      Not only does he not even allow him to arc (and then ride him out), he stalls it the rush completely with no depth given up into the pocket. Really great job. +2

      13) Another Zone run to his side. Does a great job 1st level (inside crash by DE basically seals himself inside, but Dillard more than helps him take himself out of the play) and then climbs with correct angle to 2nd level and wins that. Great stuff. +2

      14) Singled on 5 tech and then gets some help. This is the sort of oversetting to the edge that I spoke of above. His competition is helping him out a fair bit here (not much in well-developed or dynamic pass rush). A lumbering change of direction back to the inside by the end a wee bit into the pass set and you can clearly see Dillard is in the process of oversetting to the edge. Help comes, but I don’t think it mattered anyway. 0

      15) Fake Outside Zone boot away from Dillard. However, the relevant bit here is how well he executes his footwork and the reach block to seal his man inside. He gets width and depth quickly and efficiently, crosses the face of the 6 tech and gets his hands into him aggressively and appropriately. He doesn’t get the full seal, but this is a very good win against an outside leverage tech. +2

      16) Inside Zone Dillard’s way and he’s singled against 6 tech. He’s supposed to get a little width here and drive him. He does a decent job initially with his footwork and his hands, but he loses here. 6 tech generates a few yards of displacement (rather than the inverse), controls him (not allowing him to widen the B<>C space) and then sheds him as the RB is coming into the B gap; TFL (along with the DT who also won). -2

      17) Wide 9 DE speed to power rush pushes Dillard right into the lap of the QB. They called Hands to the Face on this. No rep.

      18) Man run Dillard’s way. 4 tech across from him shoots low. Gets penetration, but doesn’t disrupt the play and Dillard helps him lose and smothers him. Play is a TFL, but not due to Dillard. +1

      19) Loses the edge to 6 tech on his vertical set. Ball is out pretty quickly, but this is a Pressure. This snap shows a lot of what I was talking about above. Hand strike isn’t remotely violent and the 6 tech generates a soft edge with a slap > rip, Dillard’s head leaks out beyond his base as he’s losing, edge lost. -1

      20) Quick WR Screen. No rep here.

      +++++++++++++++

      So there are the first 2 drives for Dillard in the Senior Bowl.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3212

      Dieter has been getting his lunch money taken from him.

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    • 60 min

      Blocked
      Post count: 63

      Dieter has been getting his lunch money taken from him.

      I think you will see the offensive side of the draft getting built up in the rankings and they will push down and spread out the defensive wealth.

      You gotta make the offerings fair to teams picking farther down – right?

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Going to break down the Senior Bowl first 2 drives for the North. This included 3 guys I’ve reviewed in this thread already and another, Bradbury (C), that I need to do.

      LG – Deiter
      C – Bradbury
      RG – Lindstrom
      RT – Risner

      I’m going to do one post per play and eval each’s performance in the play and grade it.

      Really, what I’m looking at, more than anything, is % of negative plays. As an offensive lineman, you want to be generating an as expected stalemate or better. You don’t have to win every single play…just don’t lose much. One guy losing on a play is enough to lose the play.

      Dillard (first two drives above) had 5 negatively graded plays out of 17 snaps (20 total, but 1 no rep, and 2 others where he didn’t have any role). That is basically 30 %. While he strung together several good snaps in a row, 7 out of 10 isn’t a high enough percentage. In a game where you’re seeing 65 snaps, that is basically 20 breakdowns in the passing or running game. That is too much.

      Let us see how these 4 did.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      1) Inside Zone Weak Lead Left

      LG – Deiter

      Lateral Drive block single on the 3 tech. Gets 1 yard of displacement, but hand position isn’t great and the 3 tech is able to shed and win the B gap. -1

      C – Bradbury

      Uncovered so straight 2nd level to MLB (typically, he should help Lindstrom brieflyon the 1 tech before releasing, so Lindstrom can attempt to get across his face, but he doesn’t). Good quickness and good angle, but the MLB stacks him immediately (stood straight up) and is able to get downhill into his run fit. -1

      RG – Lindstrom

      Lateral Drive block single on the 1 tech (who has play-side leverage due to alignment). Would be nice to have a quick help from the C, but he doesn’t get it. He can’t cross his face, hand position is poor and the NT dominates his gap. -1 (this would get a -2 except the Center’s lack of help mitigates it).

      RT – Risner

      Uncovered so straight 2nd level to SLB. Slow out of his stance, too upright. SLB not only beats him to the angle, but the effort doesn’t even disrupt him to the ball. -1

      +++++++++++

      Not a good start for any of our intrepid heroes!

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      2) Play-Action Zone Strong Lead Left

      LG – Deiter

      Double 3 tech w/ LT wins. 0

      C – Bradbury

      Double 1 tech w/ RG wins. 0

      RG – Lindstrom

      Double 1 tech w/ C wins. 0

      RT – Risner

      Single 3 tech wins. +1

      +++++++++++

      Much better. The 3 players doubling on the Zone fake should win. Risner single wins and he doesn’t have formational leverage, so positive grade.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      3) Pass from Shotgun, Unbalanced Right, Twins Left. Tight TE is chipping on Risner’s man before releasing and the 3 tech is weak side. This tells me that the call should be to protection slide left off of that (away from it) with Bradbury focusing on the 3 tech with Deiter.

      LG – Deiter

      Deiter clearly thinks he is going to get help across his face as he quick sets to the B gap, engages the 3 tech and then hands him off to his right when the 3 tech attacks that A gap on the otherside. He then looks to his left to help the LT. This is telling me protection slide left.

      He does what appears to be the call here. 0

      C – Bradbury

      Someone is confused here because the general set up screams protection slide left and Deiter’s behavior screams protection slide left. Bradbury is hesitant in engaging anyone off the snap (he doesn’t help Lindstrom w/ the 1 tech right over him on his right shoulder and he doesn’t immediately slide left).

      He’s late getting over to double the 3 tech off the snap (which should happen in a slide left) and then he’s late picking him up when Deiter passes him off after he jumps a gap over (A gap). This generates pressure even though the ball is out and on the money. This on Bradbury in multiple ways. -2

      RG – Lindstrom

      Singled against the 1 tech NT. Loses the strike initiative and is stacked so he loses initial leverage to anchor. He attempts to reanchor but he can’t so the NT walks him into the QB lap. -1

      RT – Risner

      After the TE chips (laboriously…he doesn’t release for a bit) the 6 tech DE, there isn’t much for Risner to do. But again (as noted above), he’s standing too upright, his base gets narrow, and he’s reaching with his initiative to strike, which causes his head to leak out beyond his lower half. These are all the things he has a propensity to do.

      I’m tempted to grade him negatively just because of how poor this is technically, but I’m going to no rep this as the TE did all the work and Risner played no role here.

      +++++++++++

      Checkdown RB muffs a ball right into his hands, which almost leads to a tip > pick.

      3 plays and only a single positive grade and multiple negative grades.

      Ugly series so far by the North OL.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      4) Shotgun Man Off Center/RG. Because neither Bradbury nor Lindstrom gets to 2nd level (due to NT winning enough), LB fills that gap immediately and forces bounce left all the way to C/D gap other side.

      LG – Deiter

      Singled on 3 tech. Gets 3 yards of displacement and has him sealed and tied up away from playside gap. When the ball bounces to his left (the DT had leverage to it due to the seal), Deiter lets go rather than Holding. +2

      C – Bradbury

      This is the point of attack. Lindstrom and Bradbury have a 1 tech over it and then one of them have to get 2nd level to the filling LB after an initial combo block.

      The NT’s anchor and activity occupies them both (disallowing either to get to the 2nd level to the LB coming to fit the run and get into backfield) and generates a near stalemate (maybe 1 yard of displacement) in doing so. I’d grade the NT out positively here in dealing with this combo. Both Bradbury and Lindstrom are getting a -1

      RG – Lindstrom

      This is the point of attack. Lindstrom and Bradbury have a 1 tech over it and then one of them have to get 2nd level to the filling LB after an initial combo block.

      The NT’s anchor and activity occupies them both (disallowing either to get to the 2nd level to the LB coming to fit the run and get into backfield) and generates a near stalemate (maybe 1 yard of displacement) in doing so. I’d grade the NT out positively here in dealing with this combo. Both Bradbury and Lindstrom are getting a -1

      RT – Risner

      Man, his fundamentals can be a mess. His footwork is clunky, but his base is ok. His feet don’t remain active and when he shoots his hands (again) he almost falls forward as his head again leaks out beyond his lower half. He sort of generates a stalemate against the 5 tech, but their play is mostly irrelevant due to the most relevant parts of the play.

      I guess I’ll give him a 0.

      +++++++++++

      Again, lots of not-so-great play by the North O Line.

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    • tampaspicer

      Participant
      Post count: 3476

      @nobody who is the NT in the above reviews?

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      @nobody who is the NT in the above reviews?

      Looks like Dontavius Russell – Auburn. Kingsley with A&M is the other DT.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      5) Shotgun Pass

      LG – Deiter

      Singled on 3 tech. Great job with footwork, hands, anchors and stalls out the initial rush but QB holds the ball so a re-anchor is required (does the job). QB holds the ball forever here. Multiple step drop after Shotgun snap. He holds it. He pump fakes. Holds it again. 3.4 seconds until release is forever. Dominant stuff. +2

      C – Bradbury

      This is 3rd and long and the Over LBs/DBs are 6 yards off the ball so no threat to blitz. Both DTs are 3 techs so there isn’t any reason to not help immediately on one of the 3 techs.

      Bradbury stands around for about 1.75 seconds (seemingly expecting a delayed blitz from 6 yards deep?) before finding some work. He needs to help one of the Guards off the snap (the one dealing with the bigger threat or the weaker pass protector). He finally helps Lindstrom who is in good position, but this is way too late. -1

      RG – Lindstrom

      Singled vs 3 tech. He is a little late out of his stance and loses the B gap from the get-off due to his feet and loss of strike initiative. Honestly, this was a borderline Hold in order to recover (hands way outside the frame…right arm wrapped around the collar of the DT and uses that to torque his hips back into position). But he does recover and the DT tries to spin out of this mess. Bradbury comes over late to help but the play had mostly stalled out. I’m going to give this a 0 because (a) he got the job done, but (b) this was poor technique that probably/could have been a Holding call on 3rd and long. 0

      RT – Risner

      Single vs 7 tech who comes with a stutter and go. Great footwork on the kick-slide; balanced, great base, doesn’t overset. Great strike (initiative and square in the chest) forces the C gap arc waaaay wider than intended and rides him well out of the play. Great stuff. +2

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      6) Shotgun Man Trap Off LG (TE comes under formation to kick-out weakside end, singles up front and uncovered OL, Bradbury and Ritner, to 2nd level)

      LG – Deiter

      Covered by 3 tech so single here. This is PoA. Comes off the ball just ok here. Hands are good, but he only generates about .5 yards displacement. However, he keeps his feet moving and gets a little more. The RB is making his cut off this block. Misread (Lindstrom man was contracting this A gap) by the tailback. He had daylight for days if he goes B gap instead of A. This would have been a huge run. 0

      C – Bradbury

      Uncovered so straight to 2nd level. Given the 1 tech’s formational leverage on Lindstrom, again, I’d like to see a brief help so Lindstrom can ensure he can cross the face of the NT.
      He doesn’t help, he just climbs 2nd level straight-away. He overpusues his MLB a bit so doesn’t get him squarely (though he had a free shot and the MLB was confused by his keys so he should have had him). He got enough to disrupt though. 0

      RG – Lindstrom

      Singled vs 1 tech. Formational leverage to the play-side for the NT on Lindstrom, so he has to get across his face before he can drive block him. Lindstrom doesn’t shoot his hands first so he’s lost leverage off the bat. NT controls him and contracts down the line to shut down the A gap (again, RB made wrong read). Bradbury should have helped a bit here, but this is still not good enough. Extremely good play design was turned into a run loss due to (a) complete tailback misread and (b) this block (only a 2 yard gain and should have been a big run). -1

      RT – Risner

      Risner is uncovered so straight climb to 2nd level to WLB. Man, this play really shows Risner’s struggles in space. Awkward, 2 tall, poor angle (and just like the MLB, the WLB is stalled by the keys, so he paused, giving Risner the advantage). WLB easily beats him to the spot. This was set up to be an easy 2nd level climb and a win but was a complete loss. -2

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    • Gareth

      Participant
      Post count: 212

      @nobody

      I know he is currently getting mocked in the first rd, but looking at his film I hope he tests like crap and is available in the 2nd round. What are your thoughts on Cody Ford OT from OU.  He seems like he has a touch of nasty I recommend watching his film vs Bama in the playoff.  He is a bit of a big lug with awkward footwork but is a big physical mauler that seems to have a serious disdain for defenders and a love for burying people. I would try him at tackle and guard first couple days of training camp but with a little polish he could be a real shit kicker at either RG or RT.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      @Gareth

      He’s a guy I intend to look at for 1st round in case of a trade back. I’ve also got several other guys that are pending in this thread (including finishing out the above review of Senior Bowl play for those 4 OL).

      Once I’m done with the SB review, I’m going to do Ford and then I’ll get back to guys for this thread that I haven’t reviewed fully.

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    • Gareth

      Participant
      Post count: 212

      SIDEBAR

       

      What happened to the quality of Oline play in the NFL, nay football in general. There are no more Larry Allens, Fanecas, Joe Thomas, Willie Roafs anymore. Ill give it to Trent Williams, Tyron Smith, Martin but they are outliers. Over the last 5 years it has gone to crap mediocre plays like D. Smith are getting PAID. I know the CBA has been ruining line play with rules about contact in that you can’t team people how to block if you can’t let them hit. Also that the college game has been asking lineman to do less traditional things but there comes a time when as a lineman you need to be able to impose your will and I’m just not seeing that anymore.

       

      Something has to give maybe the new CBA will make concessions for line and contact, or will the McVays build an offense that mirrors what they are asked to do in college. But even McVay had to give up on guys like Greg Robinson for old heads in Whitworth and Saffold.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      You answered your own question.

      Athletes and concepts aren’t getting worse. They’re getting better.

      So the only reason that tackling and blocking fundamentals are struggling as they are is the CBA and the trickle down effect to college, high school, and youth football.

      It wouldn’t surprise me (should things continue how they are) to see nearly exclusively Zone blocking schemes w/ move players (Trap concepts and Gap Jet Sweeps) maybe 5-6 years from now with OL about the frame of JPP.

      But I’m actually expecting a reversion to leather helmets at some point and turning it away from the collision sport that it presently is.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      7) Inside Zone Play-Action and Boot other way

      LG – Deiter

      Double 3 tech w/ C. Play design does most of the work, but they do a decent enough job. 0

      C – Bradbury

      Double 1 tech w/ LG. Play design does most of the work, but they do a decent enough job. 0

      RG – Lindstrom

      Double 1 tech w/ RT. Play design does most of the work, but he does a decent enough job. 0

      RT – Risner

      He’s doubling the 1 tech w/ RG. His footwork here is poor, his base is narrow, he barely assists and he quits early on this play. And he is edge on boot side. Not much about this I like. -1

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Gareth

      There is no doubt that the better athletics are on the defensive side of the line.

      That is where the money is.

      Just look at the 2019 draft.  It is dominated by early DL prospects.

      But notice the playoff games.

      Indy at Houston.  Houston with Clowney, JJ Watt,and Mercilus.  This great DL line had very little influence on Luck.

      Phil at Chic.   Chicago with Mack, Hicks and Floyd. Peters seemed to keep Mack from taking over the game and in general the Phil OL won..

      So it could be concluded that against lesser competition a good DL can flourish. But against really good OLs, the DL can be neutralized.

      Since good OL men are fewer, this puts them at a premium.

      Good DLs go wild against average OLs, but the few truly good NFL OLs come out on top.

       

       

       

       

       

       

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      Remain intimately at the heart of experience.

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      8) Shotgun Power O w/ Deiter Pulling

      LG – Deiter

      Good job out of his stance, tight to the LoS, quick and good pad level. His initial read here is MLB and he picks him up (though doesn’t do a great job as the MLB gets under him). The Tight Flanker is supposed to have the rolled up SS (he chases him when he run blitzes). However, this is technically “first man through”. Deiter has to adjust here on the fly and kick out the SS behind the LoS and just let the RB go 1v1 with the MLB in the hole. He doesn’t do so, stuffed at the LoS and you have 4th and 1. This is a tough call though (with mitigating factors that he did well) so I’m only going to give him a -1.

      C – Bradbury

      Single on heads up 0 tech NT. He has to seal him inside to allow the pull to get around him (preferrably cross the face, snap the hips and seal). He just occupies him, but this is enough here. 0

      RG – Lindstrom

      Double down block play-side 3 tech w/ RT. Their combo wins big and generates displacement and a seal. +1

      RT – Risner

      Double down block play-side 3 tech w/ RG. Their combo wins big and generates displacement and a seal. +1

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      9) QB Sneak

      LG – Deiter

      Combo the 1 tech with Center. This is PoA and significant displacement guarantees the pick-up. Both fire off the ball with great pad level, great hand position, and drive their legs to assure this works. Great job by these two. +2

      C – Bradbury

      Combo the 1 tech with LG. This is PoA and significant displacement guarantees the pick-up. Both fire off the ball with great pad level, great hand position, and drive their legs to assure this works. Great job by these two. +2

      RG – Lindstrom

      Combo 3 tech w/ RT. Good pad level and about a yard of displacement. 0

      RT – Risner

      Combo 3 tech w/ RG. Good pad level and about a yard of displacement. 0

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      10) Shotgun Play Action Pass

      LG – Deiter

      Doubles 1 tech w/ Center. He’s first contact. Great strike initiative, good hand placement, good base, knee bend, anchor on the quick-set. Once rush is stalled and Center takes control he slides over, finds more work and helps the LT with that edge. +1

      C – Bradbury

      After 1 tech is handed off from LG he does a good job with anchor and base and hands, but most of the work here was done by the LG. 0

      RG – Lindstrom

      Single against 3 tech. Hands aren’t great here (outside of the frame) but base, knee bend and anchor are great despite it. Shuts down the 3 tech. +1

      RT – Risner

      Another ugly Pass Set. Too high, base gets narrow, is eventually standing up and falling forward as he’s leaning beyond his base. He works enough to get the job done though. 0

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      11) Shotgun pass.

      LG – Deiter

      Initial single on 2 tech right over him. 2 tech fires off the line with very low pad level and Deiter’s initial anchor is lost as he’s stacked (right hand outside of the frame doesn’t help with leverage here). He has to work hard to reanchor and is beginning to do so after a few yards of displacement. The Center comes over to ensure the 2 tech rush stalls out. 0

      C – Bradbury

      Does a good job coming over to help the LG w/ 2 tech who has lost initial leverage. +1

      RG – Lindstrom

      Single on 4 tech. Big time bull rush stacks Lindstrom and pushes him into QB’s lap. Good knee bend and hand position, but hands outside of the frame (so loses leverage) and play strength here just doesn’t get it done. Can’t reanchor. Doesn’t give up a Hit, but gives up Pressure. -1

      RT – Risner

      This is the same thing nearly all the time. Pass set starts good, but again, during kickslide his base gets way too narrow and he ends up standing up and oversetting to the edge. The ball is out right as the 7 tech is spinning back inside and is about to blow up the QB. -1

      THIS IS GOING TO KILL HIM IN THE PROS. HE IS GOING TO DEAL WITH EDGE RUSHERS WHO ARE GOING TO SPEED RUSH RIGHT PAST HIM. HE’LL BE OVERSETTING LIKE CRAZY ON OTHER DOWNS AND HE’LL GET COUNTERED INSIDE HARD (SWIM, STUTTER, SLAP > RIP, SPEED TO POWER) AND LOSE. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN HIS ABILITY TO PASS PROTECT AT THE NFL LEVEL AT THIS POINT

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      12 Shotgun pass.

      LG – Deiter

      Initial single on 3 tech right who goes hard B gap. Great strike at the beginning (and knee bend/base) and he knocks the 3 tech completely off balance as they’re trying slap > swim. Pushes him outside of the B gap arc and he is no threat to the pocket. Fantastic pass set. The Center comes over, but this pass rush is already dead. +2

      C – Bradbury

      Comes over to help Deiter, but his man is dominated. The OG that needed help was Lindstrom on the 2 tech, but certainly his call was pre-snap. 0

      RG – Lindstrom

      Single on 2 tech heads up. Good initial strike, but 2 tech crosses his right shoulder and starts to win the B gap. Right hand outside of the frame again, so he struggles with leverage, loses initial anchor and has to reanchor. He eventually does, but the DT has pushed him back into the QB face by that time. -1

      RT – Risner

      Here we go. Single on 7 tech. His base again gets too narrow in his kickslide, but he doesn’t overset to the edge and wins strike initiative with hands. Stalls out the Speed > Power attempt completely. Good job. +2

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      13) Shotgun Sprint Right Quickout so no rep for anyone here.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      14) Shotgun Pass.

      LG – Deiter

      Single 3 tech right who goes hard B gap. Wins strike, good base and knee bend. Rides him out through the B gap arc before rush stalls out as pass is getting out. +1

      C – Bradbury

      Double on 2 tech over Lindstrom and they completely stall him out at the apex of the pocket. +1

      RG – Lindstrom

      Double on 2 tech heads up with Center and they completely stall him out at the apex of the pocket. +1

      RT – Risner

      Single on 7 tech. This is his best pass set. Base doesn’t get terribly narrow. Mirror is good. Wins with hands as well. No overset. Speed to Power is nullified and DE is swallowed up as he tries to Spin back inside. +2

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      15) Shotgun Pass.

      LG – Deiter

      Single on 2 tech heads up initially who goes hard B gap. Wins strike, great base and knee bend. Anchor is good. Rush is ensured to be stalled out right at the apex of the pocket when Center comes over to help. +1

      C – Bradbury

      Double on 2 tech over Deiter and they completely stall him out at the apex of the pocket. +1

      RG – Lindstrom

      Single on 2 tech heads up. Loses A gap immediately with a Slap > Rip and 2 tech is coming downhill right into QB’s lap. Big time Pressure in the worse place. -2

      RT – Risner

      Single on 7 tech. Loses edge initially as he doesn’t set hard enough there (several inside countermoves at this point and it seems like the way he wins the edge is by oversetting to it). DE gets his right shoulder around Risner’s and a Slap > Swim ensures pressure on the QB. -1

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      16) Shotgun Pass.

      LG – Deiter

      Double on 3 tech who tries a Slap and Arm over and is stalled out immediately with a good strike by Deiter. Center comes over instantly and gets a heavy-handed strike with a good base and is doing most of the work here as the slide left is on and Deiter looks to help LT but none needed). 0 (Center did most of the work).

      C – Bradbury

      Shuts down the 3 tech on the slide left after LG initially stalls him out. +1

      RG – Lindstrom

      Single on 3 tech who tries to go B gap. He lets the DT get into him a little bit, but base is great and leverage is stout. He semi rides him through the B gap before the rush stalls out quickly. Completely shut down. +2

      RT – Risner

      Single on 7 tech. Oversetting hard to the edge and is too high and too narrow. Speed to Power on the inside shoulder pushes him right into the lap of the QB or a Pressure. -1

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      17) Spike to stop the clock – no rep.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      18) Shotgun Pass.

      LG – Deiter

      Single 3 tech right who goes hard B gap. Initial strike is slapped and this causes an overset that almost gets him into trouble. He recovers though with good base + quick, balanced footwork; rides the DT out of the B gap arc with no Pressure. +1

      C – Bradbury

      Double on 2 tech over Lindstrom and they completely stall him out at the apex of the pocket. +1

      RG – Lindstrom

      Double on 2 tech heads up with Center and they completely stall him out at the apex of the pocket. +1

      RT – Risner

      Single on 7 tech. Oversets to the edge and an inside countermove wins. This was huge pressure and would have been a big hit if the ball wouldn’t have been out relatively quickly. DE was right in QB’s face and almost get the PBU. -2

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      19) Shotgun Pass.

      LG – Deiter

      Single 3 tech right who goes hard A gap at the snap. Well placed, hard strike stalls him out. He attempts to spin back to the B gap, but good base/leverage/hands and DT stalls out near the apex of the pocket. +2

      C – Bradbury

      Double on 2 tech over Lindstrom who goes hard B gap. A bit late getting over there (he’s clearly helping him from the outset because (a) he’s looking there and (b) Lindstrom man goes A gap and he doesn’t help), but the two of them ride him out of the B gap and no Pressure. 0

      RG – Lindstrom

      Initial single on 2 tech heads up with Center coming over late. His 45 set turns into a Vertical set after he loses the B gap a bit to a Slap at his hand strike (which unbalances him a bit…if this DT was a good pass rusher and had a Rip, he is beyond even, wins the B gap and this is pressure…next level that is what will happen). However, he recovers a bit and Center ensures no Pressure. 0

      RT – Risner

      Single on 7 tech. Loses edge a bit, but this one isn’t too bad as the edge rusher’s arc would have been well beyond standard D arc and QB would be able to step up or get the ball out (he did the latter). +1

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      20) Shotgun Pass.

      LG – Deiter

      Single 3 tech right who tries a straight Bull Rush. Hands aren’t great here (outside of the frame), he’s stacked and ends up narrow and tall. Fights hard to get leverage and anchor. Eventually does after about 4 yards displacement. No Pressure but decent pocket collapse. 0

      C – Bradbury

      Double on 2 tech over Lindstrom and they completely stall him out at the apex of the pocket. +1

      RG – Lindstrom

      Double on 2 tech heads up with Center and they completely stall him out at the apex of the pocket. +1

      RT – Risner

      This is the first time he was aggressive rather than aggressively retreating in a vertical set. He is still kicksliding, but more into the 7 tech. Gets his hands into him. Once he’s engaged, his base is decent (still a bit too narrow), but he shuts him down completely. +2.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Alright, lets see how each of these guys did:

      % Negative Plays.
      Grade.

      LT DILLARD

      27.8 % Negative Plays
      .44 Grade

      LG DEITER

      11.11 % Negative Plays
      .67 Grade

      C BRADBURY

      22.22 % Negative Plays
      .17 Grade

      RG LINDSTROM

      38.89 % Negative Plays
      -.06 Grade.

      RT RISNER

      41.18 % Negative Plays
      .18 Grade

      +++++++++++++

      Alright, conclusions:

      1) Deiter had a very good game and the majority of it was in the pass game (good sign). That is a good grade and a low % of negative plays.

      2) WAAAAAAAAY too many negative plays for everyone else. More than 1 in 5 negative plays is just far, far too many.

      3) Lindstrom and Risner had very poor games. Not a big surprise (for me) from Risner, but Lindstrom is a surprise. He wasn’t good in Pass Pro or the run game.

      4) Bradbury was a bit south of average in his play.

      5) Solid grade for Dillard, but just way too many negative plays.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Quick observation related to the above and practice:

      1) Again 1v1 Pass Pro does not approximate NFL of NCAA pass Blocking.

      2) Deiter (apparently…still haven’t watched all the reps) struggled in practice but was fantastic in the game (specifically in 1v1 Pass Pro).

      3) Lindstrom was great in practice but put out BY FAR the worst film I’ve seen of him (especially in 1v1 Pass Pro).

      4) That doesn’t mean everyone that jumped off the Deiter Wagon and onto the Lindstrom Wagon after 1v1 Pass Pro in practice need to do the inverse now.

      It means (just like before), you have to consider everything (the composite) with game take being significantly being predominate. They’re both good players.

      I’m looking forward to Dillard’s game tape. I didn’t see much from Bradbury in the game unfortunately due to protections and plays called (I would have liked to see more single teams, more Zone + 2nd level climb, Screens or Pulls).

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    • mbonus

      Participant
      Post count: 18

      Great work and thread as usual!  As the casual fan, even I can see that success starts up front on both sides of the ball.  It’s not sexy, but we have to address OL with one of our first 2 picks.

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Great work and thread as usual! As the casual fan, even I can see that success starts up front on both sides of the ball. It’s not sexy, but we have to address OL with one of our first 2 picks.

      Agree

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      bump

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Next I’m going to be looking at more OL; Dillard, Bradbury, Cajuste, Powell. Then a few D; Jelks, Conley, maybe a couple Safeties next.

      Likely in that order.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      ANDRE DILLARD (LT) VS USC AND IOWA ST 2018 (and Senior Bowl)

      Traits I see…

      THE GOOD

      * Footwork in Vertical, 45, and Quick Pass Sets are quick and efficient and base stays wide.

      * When strike initiative wins and he gets his hands appropriately on the inside of the rusher’s frame, his ability to mirror is extremely good (flat back, he doesn’t leave his feet behind, good knee bend, base remains wide and stable).

      * Very good awareness/IQ and technical soundness in handling both Stunts/Games and late showing NCB or 2nd level edge Blitzes (will either see the latter at snaps and make the play or will peel if doubling).

      * When his strike is clean and hands are set appropriately on initial strike in the Man run game, he often does a + job with his footwork and leverage to seal his man.

      * Good, efficient, quick footwork in Zone run game.

      THE BAD

      * Frame issues. I see a relatively undersized OT without long arms. That would be fine if I saw fantastic athleticism to offset it, but I just see somewhere between average to + athleticism.

      * His striking (which is impacted by that arm length) can be really hit or miss in both initiative and placement. This can get him in trouble in both the run and pass game; violent + good hand use can win, his head leaking out beyond base making him vulnerable to countermoves/push > pull, loss of leverage and/or anchor. This is exacerbated because he is undersized, doesn’t have overwhelming athleticism and because…

      * His play-strength is quite limited. Though his feet rarely stall out, even when his hand placement and strike initiative win (without a reset), he doesn’t displace people in Inside Zone or Man run game. When they don’t win (which…again, happens), the limited play strength tends to show up even more. I can see Speed to Power and Bull Rushes by NFL edge rushers giving him some issues at the next level. I just don’t see him being able to reanchor after an initial loss of anchor at the next level.

      * Though his feet are quick and efficient in his pass sets, he sometimes loses the Edge to rushers who aren’t going to be dominating at the next level. At the next level, he’s going to be dealing with a decent chunk of guys who can Bend and Dip/Rip a hard edge after explosive get-off.

      * When he’s in space I see a lot of playing high and head leaking out beyond his base and there just isn’t enough tape on him 2nd level climbing/getting out in front of Screens > acquiring target > taking appropriate angle > winning…so I don’t know.

      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

      Looks like a poor man’s Jonah Williams on tape. Same frame/length, but he completely lacks Williams’ play strength and, as a football player, Williams shows more athleticism due to more polish in fundamentals and is a better “football mover” in space (and has more tape of doing it). I see a finesse player who lacks certain tools to do so (length, significant athleticism, consistent hand striking fundamentals, consistent base/posture on the move, relentless “try-hard”-ness – though he definitely works).

      But he wins a lot in protection because the overwhelming % of Pass Sets dials up things he’s good at. I think he’ll be a functional LT at the next level in Pass Pro and decent in the Zone running game.

      MID-LATE 1ST TO MID 2ND

      1 – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE)

      2 – GERALD WILLIS (DT)

      3 – MICHAEL DEITER (OG)

      4 – AMANI ORUWARIYE (CB)

      5 – MACK WILSON (ILB)

      6 – CHRIS LINDSTROM (OG)

      MID 2ND TO 3RD

      7 – GERMAINE PRATT (LB)

      8 – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      9 – ANDRE DILLARD (LT)

      10 – DEVIN BUSH (LB)

      11 – TRAYVON MULLEN (CB)

      12 – DALTON RISNER (RT)

      13 – MICHAEL JORDAN (C)

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      I’d like to request Nasir Adderly safety out of Deleware. Should probably be in the 1st round thread though. He looks like a superfreak.

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      GottaJaboo wrote:
      (Justin) Evans will be far superior to (Budda) Baker in the pros.

      Dan Skipper Sucks! (lost bet)
      Update – UDFA Dan Skipper has been signed by the Dallas Cowboys

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Sounds good @GoldsonAges

      Thats one of the Safeties I was thinking about. I’ll take a look.

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Could be good news for the Bucs if this guy catches fire and goes early.

      Ian Rapoport

      Verified account

      #Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray is an official Scouting Combine participant. That’s some news.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      I’ve watched him only some so my opinion of Murray is not terribly well-developed.

      But from afar, he looks like a more explosive Russell Wilson with better arm talent.

      I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he goes top 5. This is a new league. Gone are the days of only 6’5” QBs who look down the barrel of enormous hits in the pocket as they push the ball to generic route combos.

      With all the in-pocket QB protections, the ZRO/RPO misdirection offenses, and the ability for running QBs to give themselves up without contact…smaller athletic QBs can thrive.

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    • tampaspicer

      Participant
      Post count: 3476

      @nobody add in the fact that the new rules in place to protect the quarterback help smaller quarterbacks wanting to play in the NFL. The game is changing at a rapid pace.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      @nobody add in the fact that the new rules in place to protect the quarterback help smaller quarterbacks wanting to play in the NFL. The game is changing at a rapid pace.

      Yup. I can see the Brees, Wilsons, the whatshisface in Clevelands (why can’t I think of his name right now), and the Murrays becoming more commonplace in the next decade.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      I want to break the OL up and review another LB

      TE’VON CONEY (ILB) VS USC AND CLEMSON 2018

      THE GOOD

      * Solid frame, physical, hard-nosed mentality, mixed with + instincts in the run game makes him a force there.

      * Willing and able tackler in both space and especially tight areas. Able to take 2nd level OL climbing contact and maintain his run fit and clean up (or at least disrupt) a play at or around the LoS).

      * Not explosive, but very good short area-player in all directions due to a combination of instincts/IQ/physicality/functional violence/decent athleticism/want-to. Can drop hips and make plays at or around the line of scrimmage that are out of his immediate span.

      * Though not a prototype 3-4 stack and shed plugger, he’s capable of filling the A gap (which appears to be a responsibility for the primary ILB a lot in ND’s 425 Defense) and dealing with uncovered Guards coming at him clean pretty well.

      * Decent blitzer who is mostly functional due to a combination of the traits mentioned above (physicality, hard-nosed want-to, and the ability to finish in short-area). Like in the run game, more often than not, if he gets his hands on you, the tackle is made.

      THE BAD

      * Not an explosive athlete. Hips are tight so extremely limited ability to:

      (a) pursue sideline to sideline (plenty of cases where his angle, while pursuing C and D gap plays, is defeated by superior athletes)

      (b) deal with explosive change-of-direction players in the passing game (the few times you see this it goes very poorly)

      (c) turn-and-run in Zone are extremely limited (be it off of orthodox play-action, ZRO play-action, or a straight drop)

      * Zone instincts appear to be extremely limited. I don’t see a player getting depth to landmarks, being aware of threats to the Mid-Zone and Hook/Seam responsibilities he had, and playing those threats. I see what you typically see with Zone-coverage-challenged players; minimal depth, lack of awareness, covering grass, just trying to read the QBs eyes (while threats are free and completions are made in his Zone responsibility).

      ++++++++++++

      First and foremost (and the most important part), this is not a 3 down coverage player at the NFL level. He appears to be a considerable liability in both Zone and Man coverage. Personally, this exempts me from drafting this player almost outright. If he goes to a 3-4 team where he plays run-plugger + Green Dog (where the RB is staying in much of the time…because he is going to struggle mightily to cover NFL RBs in Man), then he has a role. Outside of that, this sort of player is going to be a liability quite a bit. I see a less athletic Kwon who has much better instincts and fundamentals in the running game.

      MID-LATE 1ST TO MID 2ND

      1 – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE)

      2 – GERALD WILLIS (DT)

      3 – MICHAEL DEITER (OG)

      4 – AMANI ORUWARIYE (CB)

      5 – MACK WILSON (ILB)

      6 – CHRIS LINDSTROM (OG)

      MID 2ND TO 3RD

      7 – GERMAINE PRATT (LB)

      8 – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      9 – ANDRE DILLARD (LT)

      10 – DEVIN BUSH (LB)

      11 – TRAYVON MULLEN (CB)

      12 – DALTON RISNER (RT)

      13 – MICHAEL JORDAN (C)

      MID 3RD TO 5TH

      14 – TE’VON CONEY (ILB)

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

       

      Nobody:

      Another possible problem with Coney.

      He was arrested for possession of MJ

      And then a year or so later,  he was suspended at the start of the season by the team for unspecified reasons.

      There have been some drafts where Pratt is not available in the 3rd.

      When it is comfortable for you, would you please take a look at

      Tre Lamar Clemson.

      Thanks.

       

       

       

       

      Please wait…

      Remain intimately at the heart of experience.

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      @ISLANDBUCS

      1) That would suck if Pratt isnt available in the early 3rd. If that starts to become the projection, then it incentivizes us to trade back and accrue another 2nd. We desperately need a really good coverage LB to go with LVD.

      2) Lamar was the last LB I was planning on looking at, so I’ll get to it at some point.

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      NASIR ADDERLY VS ND STATE, ELON, AND LAFFAYETTE (I wanted a 3rd due to the competition level) 2018

      HO
      LY

      COW

      How is this kid playing for…Delaware?

      THE GOOD

      * Frame looks good, but length is terrific.

      * Explosive and smooth movement skills in all directions (laterally, sudden change of direction, backpedal > plant > break, flipping hips either way and transitioning to direction change). I don’t know how he is going to come in at the Combine in his Underwear 40…but his football speed is fantastic.

      * Aggressive in all ways (run support, taking on 2nd level climbers, navigating trash, catch point challenge, open field tackling). This kid loves physicality and contact…he plays Safety like a hard-nosed, old-school LB. That is contagious. But he isn’t reckless in his physicality. He’s always under control.

      * Great open field tackler and great in coming down in run support. Diagnoses (play recognition, angle-of-intercept) immediately and gets downhill or to landmark to chase if the play is away from him.

      * Can play both Safety responsibilities easily. Has the instincts, recognition, movement skills and speed to play single high, can play 2 deep, can play Buzz or Robber in C3Z, Quarters.

      * Ball skills are fantastic. His spatial perception, aggression, timing, hands, all of it.

      * Route recognition is so good. He clearly knows what the potential threats to his Zone are going to be because he seems to always be where he should be, is never “concepted” out of position, he trusts what he sees/knows…and what he sees/knows looks to show a high IQ football player.

      THE BAD

      Uhhhhhh…?

      * I didn’t see a ton of Man on tape so I’m not certain of his Man skills but (a) given his movement skills and route recognition, I would be shocked if it wasn’t good and (b) I understand he’s a converted CB…soooo..

      It wouldn’t surprise me if this kid could play Nickel or 3rd Safety in Big Nickel.

      * Competition level is obviously a question mark, but as a Safety, that becomes less relevant (and the movement skills and instincts aren’t relative…they are what they are).

      ++++++++++++++++

      This is EXACTLY the kind of football player I want on my team. Exactly. But like Brian Burns, I’m not going to fall in love with this football player because there is no way he makes it to our 2nd round pick. Depending on how he shows at the combine (I think he will probably show well), he’ll be somewhere between 15 and 30 would be my guess. This is one of the best Safeties I’ve reviewed in awhile.

      In a deep trade-back situation toward the bottom 1/3 of the 1st, I’d prioritize Burns, then this kid over every other prospect that is supposed to go 2nd half of the 1st round.

      MID-LATE 1ST TO MID 2ND

      1 – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE)

      2 – NASIR ADDERLEY (S)

      3 – GERALD WILLIS (DT)

      4 – MICHAEL DEITER (OG)

      5 – AMANI ORUWARIYE (CB)

      6 – MACK WILSON (ILB)

      7 – CHRIS LINDSTROM (OG)

      MID 2ND TO 3RD

      8 – GERMAINE PRATT (LB)

      9 – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      10 – ANDRE DILLARD (LT)

      11 – DEVIN BUSH (LB)

      12 – TRAYVON MULLEN (CB)

      13 – DALTON RISNER (RT)

      14 – MICHAEL JORDAN (C)

      MID 3RD TO 5TH

      15 – TE’VON CONEY (ILB)

      Please wait…

    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      Thanks for doing Adderly. Adderly is my new crush. This is the best safety prospect I’ve ever seen.

      I love the physicality and the athletic traits, but the swagger this kid brings would be infectous to the entire defense. We’re talking Quentin Nelson alpha swagger. Top level stuff.

      I wouldn’t be mad if we traded back outside of the top 10 for and extra 2nd and took Adderly and then trade both 2nds to get back into the late 1st and grab a Burns or another DL. Coverage LB with our 3rd.

      Adderly
      Burns
      Pratt

      How much better would our defense be?

      Please wait…

      GottaJaboo wrote:
      (Justin) Evans will be far superior to (Budda) Baker in the pros.

      Dan Skipper Sucks! (lost bet)
      Update – UDFA Dan Skipper has been signed by the Dallas Cowboys

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Those 3 players are top notch. Our pass defense and speed on defense would improve immensely.

      Please wait…

    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      Also, I did see a clip of Adderly playing outside corner cover 3 and he just blanketed the guy and robbed him.

      Adderly has elite awareness and ball skills and obviously great return skills. He’s fearless. Easy to project him. IMO he’s probably a top 5 player overall in the draft.

      Please wait…

      GottaJaboo wrote:
      (Justin) Evans will be far superior to (Budda) Baker in the pros.

      Dan Skipper Sucks! (lost bet)
      Update – UDFA Dan Skipper has been signed by the Dallas Cowboys

    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1930

      I want to break the OL up and review another LB

      TE’VON CONEY (ILB) VS USC AND CLEMSON 2018

      THE GOOD

      * Solid frame, physical, hard-nosed mentality, mixed with + instincts in the run game makes him a force there.

      * Willing and able tackler in both space and especially tight areas. Able to take 2nd level OL climbing contact and maintain his run fit and clean up (or at least disrupt) a play at or around the LoS).

      * Not explosive, but very good short area-player in all directions due to a combination of instincts/IQ/physicality/functional violence/decent athleticism/want-to. Can drop hips and make plays at or around the line of scrimmage that are out of his immediate span.

      * Though not a prototype 3-4 stack and shed plugger, he’s capable of filling the A gap (which appears to be a responsibility for the primary ILB a lot in ND’s 425 Defense) and dealing with uncovered Guards coming at him clean pretty well.

      * Decent blitzer who is mostly functional due to a combination of the traits mentioned above (physicality, hard-nosed want-to, and the ability to finish in short-area). Like in the run game, more often than not, if he gets his hands on you, the tackle is made.

      THE BAD

      * Not an explosive athlete. Hips are tight so extremely limited ability to:

      (a) pursue sideline to sideline (plenty of cases where his angle, while pursuing C and D gap plays, is defeated by superior athletes)

      (b) deal with explosive change-of-direction players in the passing game (the few times you see this it goes very poorly)

      (c) turn-and-run in Zone are extremely limited (be it off of orthodox play-action, ZRO play-action, or a straight drop)

      * Zone instincts appear to be extremely limited. I don’t see a player getting depth to landmarks, being aware of threats to the Mid-Zone and Hook/Seam responsibilities he had, and playing those threats. I see what you typically see with Zone-coverage-challenged players; minimal depth, lack of awareness, covering grass, just trying to read the QBs eyes (while threats are free and completions are made in his Zone responsibility).

      ++++++++++++

      First and foremost (and the most important part), this is not a 3 down coverage player at the NFL level. He appears to be a considerable liability in both Zone and Man coverage. Personally, this exempts me from drafting this player almost outright. If he goes to a 3-4 team where he plays run-plugger + Green Dog (where the RB is staying in much of the time…because he is going to struggle mightily to cover NFL RBs in Man), then he has a role. Outside of that, this sort of player is going to be a liability quite a bit. I see a less athletic Kwon who has much better instincts and fundamentals in the running game.

      MID-LATE 1ST TO MID 2ND

      1 – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE)

      2 – GERALD WILLIS (DT)

      3 – MICHAEL DEITER (OG)

      4 – AMANI ORUWARIYE (CB)

      5 – MACK WILSON (ILB)

      6 – CHRIS LINDSTROM (OG)

      MID 2ND TO 3RD

      7 – GERMAINE PRATT (LB)

      8 – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      9 – ANDRE DILLARD (LT)

      10 – DEVIN BUSH (LB)

      11 – TRAYVON MULLEN (CB)

      12 – DALTON RISNER (RT)

      13 – MICHAEL JORDAN (C)

      MID 3RD TO 5TH

      14 – TE’VON CONEY (ILB)

      Linebackers are supposed to chop their steps in traffic. Although you never see him beat to thet edge, Coney is not quite as fast as Pratt or some of these other backers. Coney is light years better with his hands taking on blocks than Pratt or the other LB prospects being mentioned though. Since we are moving to a 3-4, that is immensely important. Coney is the best 3-4 LB prospect in the draft. The Kwon comparison makes no sense. The next time Kwon has to play through an Olineman and wins will be the first.

      I also completely disagree with him being a liability in zone. I saw him to be consistent and aware in his zone coverage. White from LSU is very unaware in pass defense right now. Pratt is solid there, but being a converted safety should be. In the game you picked to watch, Clemson was killing Notre Dame with their downfield passing attack like they did everyone. You can’t put that on MLB coverage.

      Please wait…

    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1930

      Coney is also the surest tackling LB in this draft. I don’t know what all you are rating LB’s on, but this isn’t going to be cover 2 here anymore. Want to see what we are going to ask of our LB’s, watch the Pats in the playoffs. I guarantee you Coney is high on Matt Patricia’s and now also Brian Flores’ boards.

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      1)  I chose Kwon as comparison not because they’re similar players (they aren’t, my Kwon write-up would be quite different), but because his play is familiar to Bucs fans.

      2) I also said “less athletic than Kwon with much better instincts and fundamentals in the running game”, which if you’re going to compare him to player x for frame of reference purposes, that’s close enough. The actual brrakdown should do the heavy lifting.

      3) Disagree about C2Z. In fact, I think it’s making a comeback and a lot of teams seem to be moving away from chemistry/processing intensive Quarters. The Jets primary Zone coverages last year was C2Z and C2Z Trap (where they’re blitzing the open side of the formation, typically Nickel off the Slot, and attempting to jump a hot route with the boundary CB).

      4) I chose those two teams because they threw the ball a ton. From an ILB playing mid-Zone, I expect them to read their triangle, confirm pass quickly, get to their 10-12 yard landmarks while simultaneously confirming Seam/Dig/Over/Bow (etc) routes that threaten their area so they can squeeze the throwing lane with depth..and simultaneously confirming shallow Pivot/Crossing routes that they have to drive on…while ALWAYS prioritizing the former over the latter.

      I’m sorry. We’re just going to disagree on Coney’s ability to do this. There is a lot of bad/slow drops in that tape (and I’ve watched a few others) where he either fails to get to landmarks to squeeze throws over the vertical top 1/3 of his Zone (or the transition area to Safety), doesn’t prioritize the Dig/Seam over something underneath, or just isn’t aware of a player transitioning from Curl/Flat or Curl/Seam responsibility to his Zone. Or, he can’t drive on it and generate a PBU or difficult catch even if he is there.

      Also, I don’t remotely see the athletic traits required to cover NFL Tailbacks.

      5) I know you really like the player. I’m sorry. We just disagree. I don’t see a 3 down NFL LB on tape. I see a player who is great in the running game (I agree, he’s the best I’ve seen against the run for sure), and looks to be a liability in the passing game.

      If Matt Patricia loves him, great. If my projection is wrong, then great. I certainly didn’t corner the market on “right.” I’ve got nothing against the kid. I hope he does well. I’m just describing what I see on tape. And what I see on tape is a 4th to 6th round player who is presently a 1 down NFL LB, should be a great ST player, but will be a project in the passing game (with a low ceiling therein).

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Like White and Bush, I was hoping to like Coney. However, I’m finding great 2nd level coverage players difficult to come by in this draft (and presently, that is my priority for ILBs).

      Please wait…

    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1930

      I just think the draft will show you and a lot of people that you are misevaluating, but we’ll see. Maybe I’m just wrong again : ) He definitely needs to run in the 4.6s to go as high as I think he will. I want Coney in the first (assuming Allen and Bosa are gone). He and Vea would be enough inside presence to free us up to do a lot more on the edges and just in general. Coney would actually be what peeps like Trevor are hoping for when they mock White to us. Maybe I’m just crazy though.

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Well, if he turns out to be all you think he’ll be, you’ve got this thread to come back to and point the finger at me! I’ll do the Game of Thrones Walk of Shame.

      Please wait…

    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1930

      I just want our team to win man. Love you and your willingness to put your analysis out there and have some back and forth. I look forward to better days.

      Please wait…

    • Handiman1031

      Participant
      Post count: 34

      NASIR ADDERLY

      HO

      LY

      COW

      How is this kid playing for…Delaware?

      This is EXACTLY the kind of football player I want on my team. Exactly. But like Brian Burns, I’m not going to fall in love with this football player because there is no way he makes it to our 2nd round pick. Depending on how he shows at the combine (I think he will probably show well), he’ll be somewhere between 15 and 30 would be my guess. This is one of the best Safeties I’ve reviewed in awhile.

      In a deep trade-back situation toward the bottom 1/3 of the 1st, I’d prioritize Burns, then this kid over every other prospect that is supposed to go 2nd half of the 1st round.

      I think a lot of people will be surprised how high Adderley goes to be honest.  This kid is getting a lot of hype after his week at the Senior Bowl.  He played for the North squad coached by Gruden and the Raiders staff.  The Raiders also added Mayock to the GM position.  If anyone has paid attention to his scouting on NFL Network over the years you’ve seen how much he gushes about safeties.

      On Eric Berry and Earl Thomas: “If you wanna be a little bit ahead of the curve as an evaluator of talent, I think you’ve gotta be looking at the point that it’s a pass-first league.  It’s not stop the run and run the football anymore.  You can just look around the league and see what’s happening.  So, if I’m a defensive coordinator, and I’m an evaluator of talent, from the safety position, I think that position is becoming more important, okay?  When you start talking about 3, 4, 5 wide receivers, detached tight ends like Dallas Clark, what I wanna do is I wanna bring a safety up that’s just as athletic, that will tackle.  And I’ll give up a little bit in the run game to get a guy with better range and man-to-man capabilities.  And that’s Eric Berry, and that’s Earl Thomas from Texas.  Those are the two guys that I think are high first round picks.”

      About Jamal Adams:  “LSU safety Jamal Adams is a top five player in the NFL Draft and not necessarily on the lower end” NFL.com Draft analyst Mike Mayock said Monday. “He could be one of the top two picks in the draft if Cleveland and San Francisco passed on Texas A&M defensive end Myles Garrett or Alabama defensive lineman Jonathan Allen.”

      Mayock said. “Today’s NFL is a pass-first league and the safety position is changing. You are playing against three wideouts and a tight end at minimum 65-70 percent of the time. Safeties who can cover are at a premium and both these kids can cover.”

      About Minkah Fitzpatrick:  “The key to Minkah Fitzpatrick is what is he. I think he could play all six defensive back positions,” Mayock said. “Both corners, both safeties, nickel and dime linebacker.”

      “But I look at [his versatility] as a positive. I think he’s going to go out there and run like a corner, have the size of a safety, and if you’re a defensive coordinator and take him in the top 10, you’ve got to have a plan.

      About Derwin James last year:   “He’s got easy movement skills,” NFL network draft analyst Mike Mayock said Monday afternoon. “He can cover wide receivers. He can cover tight ends. He can go down in the box and hit you. So the versatility of his game is critical. And in today’s NFL, which is a pass-first league, when you can drop a safety down on a slot and feel comfortable, that guy is worth his weight in gold.”

      “Today’s NFL is a matchup league, and he’s a matchup player, that’s why his value is so high,” Mayock said.

      Point is the Raiders need a safety who can do it all to pair with Karl Joseph.  He’s always rating the best safeties very high in the top 5-10 range.  Mayock might being able to lure Earl Thomas to the Raiders for touting him as the best safety prospect he’d seen in years and better than Eric Berry, who almost everyone in the entire world had rated higher in the draft.  But if not I could see him convincing Gruden that Nasir might be a solid move at number 4 if the trio of Bosa, Allen and Williams are taken in succession.  I don’t see him lasting to their 24th or 27th picks in the first.

      Mayock also projected both Derwin and Minkah to the Bucs last year at 7th overall.  With the initial backlash over Licht not selecting Derwin James last year when we had a glaring need at the safety position, he might look to rectify that with a player who can do it all that our new safeties coach happens to be very familiar with.  Nick Rapone coached at Delaware last season, so I’m sure he has great insight into just how good Adderley really is and what kind of character he brings to the table.

      Can’t forget that Todd Bowles was banging the table to draft Jamal Adams when he fell to 6 in the 2017 draft.  No safety had been taken that high since Eric Berry in 2010.  Adams has been great for Bowles defenses the past 2 years.

      With the league pushing the pass more and more each year we are going to see a lot more schemes with a greater number of DBs in that nickel/dime linebacker role on the field.  Guys like Tyrann, Andrew Adams, Deon Buchannon and Adderley if used correctly can be moved around all over the field to disguise coverages/blitzes.  This is a very deep class at the DL position.  I wouldn’t be terribly upset to come away with a guy like Adderley early.  A small trade back would be ideal if we could still land him. I’m not going to say he will definitely go that high, but again I wouldn’t be surprised to see it.

      Please wait…

      • Diehard Astheycome

        Participant
        Post count: 447

        See, this is why a GM with common sense should know this game has changed to speed and quick passing. It’s not FB leading in the hole , then 5 step deep drop backs. It’s get the ball out quick and you need SPEED and versatility on defense from your back “7” – 15 yards within the line of scrimmage you need players with natural instincts and reactionary speed.Sure tacklers who can get to the ball and can cover in the pass game. It’s why Derwin James value couldn’t be overstated. Roquan Smith, a player who just had the “ it” factor on instinct n seeing it before it happens. White is NOT Roquan. We can’t “ fit” guys to be other players from years prior. I honestly am not thrilled with anyone at 5!! Last year? Yes. This yr?We are two spots short IMO. Bosa, Williams and Allen are havoc. Greedy? White?? Trade down and just grab picks . Pull a Sea and just keep going back and back until you can take a handful of OL, Def players with late 1st- mid 2nd grades.I want two stud OL – DB -Cody Ford, Elgton Jenkins,Rock Ya Sin, Julian Love , etc.Or trade back n grab Deandre Baker n Lindstrom – just don’t miss like last year.Whos best coverage LB?

        Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      He’s the exact inverse of Obi Melifonwu from 2017 (who was an explosive linear athlete, but was stiff-hipped and had poor instincts) that so many fell in love with (small school Safety).

      His movement skills, instincts, run support, physicality, zone awareness and route recognition all appear to be + to elite.

      I wouldn’t hate double trade back into the teens and picking this kid.

      However, there are 3 elite edge bending prospects in this draft (Allen, Polite, and Burns). You just have to prioritize that sort of player because, outside of QB processing and arm talent, its the rarest talent in the NFL. Rarer still are guys like that who are finishers and playmakers (which Polite is).

      But man, this kids ceiling and floor appear to both be super high. He may be the highest floor:ceiling player in this draft.

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      YODNY CAJUSTE VS TENNESSEE AND KSTATE 2018

      THE GOOD

      * Great frame, endless length.

      * Kickslide covers tons of distances and coupled with a clean strike, he easily rides rushers beyond the C gap arc or mirrors and stalls them out entirely.

      * Much better Zone footwork and quickness than I expected (hips are a little stiff). Multiple Outside Zone snaps where he’s playside Tackle and he gets across the face of the DE and seals him inside. Knee bend and drive is very good in Inside Zone.

      * Hand strike placement, initiative and aggression in the run game is really good and consistent. This coupled with his length and consistently good knee bend, augments his play strength in the Man, Gap, and Inside Zone run game. He’ll displace people at the next level.

      * Physical football player who competes to the whistle, keeps feet moving, maintains posture and resets hands if initial strike is a little off (for better leverage) in the run game.

      * Pretty damn good linear mover in space. Change-of-direction challenged, but his Pulls, Climbs, and getting out in front of Screens show a player who has good straight-line acceleration while maintaining good posture and ready hands.

      THE BAD

      * Neither smooth, nor agile, nor balanced when abruptly changing direction. He dealt with games ok, but this could be an issue in the next level when the athletes are better.

      * Great length and generally + with his hands, but his misses can be bad and/or outside of the frame causing loss of leverage and/or balance.

      * Recovery ability (reanchor, change-of-direction) is limited after a missed strike in Pass Sets and guys get into his chest or hip-to-hip on the edge.

      * Head sometimes leaks out beyond his base causing him to completely lose posture in his Pass Sets, particularly when he loses balance due to a misplaced strike or when he has to change direction suddenly (either due to a Stutter and Go to the edge or a countermove back to the inside). This can get him in trouble at the next level with guys who are great with their hands and/or have elite countermoves/pace-change moves.

      +++++++++++++++

      I really like this football player. There are some warts, but there is a lot to like. Of the 2nd round Tackles, I like him better than Dillard and Risner and about the same as Edwards (but since Cajuste is a LT, I’m going to put him ahead of him).

      MID 1ST TO LATE 1ST

      1 – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE)

      2 – NASIR ADDERLEY (S)

      3 – GERALD WILLIS (DT)

      EARLY 2ND TO MID 2ND

      4 – MICHAEL DEITER (OG)

      5 – AMANI ORUWARIYE (CB)

      6 – MACK WILSON (ILB)

      7 – CHRIS LINDSTROM (OG)

      2ND TO 3RD

      8 – GERMAINE PRATT (LB)

      9 – YODNY CAJUSTE (LT)

      10 – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      11 – ANDRE DILLARD (LT)

      12 – DEVIN BUSH (LB)

      13 – TRAYVON MULLEN (CB)

      14 – DALTON RISNER (RT)

      15 – MICHAEL JORDAN (C)

      3RD TO 5TH

      16 – TE’VON CONEY (ILB)

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    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1930

      The multiple ACL’s knee injuries for Cajuste scare me a little because he seems to set harder than your usual OT. He gets a lot out of that style and gives a lot of effort though, so if the medical doesn’t have more signs of being a potential issue, I really like the player too.

      Please wait…

    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

       

      Nobody:

      Indy with their new OL line holds Houston with Watt, Clowney, and Mercilus away from Luck and Indy wins in the playoffs.

      Phil with their very good OL holds Chicago with Mack, Hicks and Floyd away from Foles.

      So I draw the conclusion that against the average NFL OL, these great DL men prevail, but against a real good OL, the OL prevails against the best DLs.

      Good OL men are rarer than good DL men, and so in my mind it justifies taking a truly effective OL man early in the draft.

      But there is another side. Coaching of the OL must play a significant role.

      The NE OL has a 7th rounder at LT, a 3rd rounder at LG, undrafted at C, a 4th rounder at RG, and a 5th rounder at RT.

      And while the DL of the Rams, who have Donald, Suh, and Brockers, put some pressure on Brady, they really didn’t control the game.

      I put a lot of the success of this somewhat no-name OL of NE  on the coaching of Scarnecchia. Re-watching the game there is a great interconnectedness in the play of the NE OL

      MY conclusion is that NE is just an outlier with its low round draft picks for an OL, (as seems to be the entire team), forming an effective OL.

      Since I can’t count on the Bucs to have an real good OL  coach,  I am content to take a very solid OL man in the 1st round.

      And since the league, in general, puts less value in an OL man, there is the chance to trade back (Denver) plus the Bucs  5th, and get an additional 2nd round pick.

      I would sure appreciate your input on the validity of putting a higher value on really good OL men.

      Please wait…

      Remain intimately at the heart of experience.

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Multiple ACLs?

      You have to move a player down a bit for that even if the knee checks out.

      One is a fluke. Unless he’s just been stupidly rolled up on in piles twice, multiples means we may have a biomechanical load issue that stresses that knee.

      Any idea what the details surrounding the injuries were?

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Carter Donnick

      @CDonScouting
      Jan 17

      Yodny Cajuste is a 320 pound Dancing Panda. Just so freakishly nimble and mobile for his size.

      I’d argue he’s the best pass blocker in the entire class.

      Please wait…

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Draft Analyst’s Tony Pauline gave West Virginia redshirt junior T Yodny Cajuste a fifth-round grade.

      Pauline mentioned that Cajuste is “well liked in scouting circles but may be better off on the right side or at guard instead of left tackle. Cajuste is not as consistent with his fundamentals compared to his teammates and shows a bit of stiffness in his game.” Despite Pauline’s concerns over his fundamentals, Cajuste is incredibly athletic. He has been timed running a 10-yard split of 1.65 seconds which would have been the fastest combine time by a lineman over the past three years. He also can bench 495 pounds and dead lift 735. As long as he turns in a solid season, he will likely light up the combine and be taken in the middle rounds of the 2019 NFL draft.

      Please wait…

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      The Athletic’s Dane Brugler said West Virginia OT Yodny Cajuste is “good enough to be considered in the 2nd-3rd range.”

      Cajuste (6’5/319) is Brugler’s No. 7 offensive tackle and “has NFL starting potential if he stays healthy and eliminates the undisciplined parts of his game.” Unfortunately, Brugler calls that “a big if” because Cajuste is inconsistent from snap to snap. That’s not great to hear because he has 30 starts under his belt, so you’d think he’d be more consistent with all the experience. Brugler also notes that Cajuste’s medicals (knees) will be a big concern.

      Source: Dane Brugler on Twitter Feb 8 – 6:29 PM

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      @ISLANDBUCS

      Good OL men are rarer than good DL men, and so in my mind it justifies taking a truly effective OL man early in the draft.

      I agree that they are rarer nowadays (due to the limited contact conditions that are taking over football, especially the NFL). Fundamentals, endurance, and physicality are struggling with OL in the modern era.

      Here is what I will say broadly applies:

      A player like a Quenton Nelson, an extraordinarily high floor/extraordinarily high ceiling (a virtual lock for instant, major impact), is unbelievably rare, regardless of position. However, it is probably more rare on the OL.

      As good as Bradley Chubb is (and was as a prospect), Quenton Nelson was SIGNIFICANTLY more rare. So you could easily make a case that the pick is Nelson over Chubb at 5 and 6.

      In this draft, however?

      There is no OL even near Quenton Nelson in the 2019 draft. Not even close. Your guy, Ford? Very solid prospect. But he isn’t in the same zip code as Quenton Nelson in terms of ceiling/floor/lock for huge, immediate impact.

      Simultaneously, there are 3 rare Edge players (the ability to blow by an OT, bend/rip a hard C gap edge and instantly hit the QB a la Mack and Miller) in this draft and a very rare CB (ridiculous size/length while simultaneously having incredible movement skills, instincts, route recognition).

      Consequently, I prioritize those 4 players over anyone else in this draft. If Quenton Nelson was in this draft? He is a lock for the best player and the prospect you prioritize. But there is no Quenton Nelson in this draft.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      Thanks for all of that info AJ!

      In other news, I’m updating my list.

      I’ve watched more tape from Pratt. He’s even better than I thought he was (as a blitzer, play-maker, run game stopper…he is SO much more physical than I originally thought). I’m now convinced he’s the best ILB prospect in this draft, without question. I don’t understand how White is projected to be better than Pratt. I don’t see anything nearing the same quality of player on tape. And he’s only going to get better (as he hasn’t been playing LB for long). Its very strange to me that the national press/amateur scouting community has White so high and Pratt in the 3rd round based off of their tape.

      I’m keeping White where he is in the 1st round because he’s got so much hype (someone will bite). But I’m moving Pratt well up. I think I’m convinced at this point that he is likely to have a great combine and his tape is so good, that I just don’t see him lasting to the 3rd round.

      MID 1ST TO LATE 1ST

      1 – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE)

      2 – NASIR ADDERLEY (S)

      3 – GERALD WILLIS (DT)

      EARLY 2ND TO MID 2ND

      4 – MICHAEL DEITER (OG)

      5 – AMANI ORUWARIYE (CB)

      6 – GERMAINE PRATT (ILB)

      7 – MACK WILSON (ILB)

      8 – CHRIS LINDSTROM (OG)

      2ND TO 3RD

      9 – YODNY CAJUSTE (LT)

      10 – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      11 – ANDRE DILLARD (LT)

      12 – DEVIN BUSH (LB)

      13 – TRAYVON MULLEN (CB)

      14 – DALTON RISNER (RT)

      15 – MICHAEL JORDAN (C)

      3RD TO 5TH

      16 – TE’VON CONEY (ILB)

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

       

       

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Nobody

      Thanks for your thoughts.

      I understand your position.

      I guess even accomplished scouts have their preferences based on their background or whatever.

      For me, there is the belief that the Bucs won’t win without an effective O-line.

      And there is the belief that a very good OL (below the level of Nelson) will be effective against a super DL.

      In the Phil–Chicago game, Mack, who may be the best today, was neutralized by Peters.

       

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      I didn’t watch that game close enough to know how much it was Peters versus that scheme (that particular scheme, and Nagy’s, and others like it are built to stress/slow Edge defenders). Great player, but I would bet the house that a lot of it was great scheming.

      Also, I think you can find a great many anecdotes pushing the opposite direction. The Super Bowl was a great example. Those were two of the best OL in the league (especially the Rams interior which is filled with great players). Both of them gave up Pressure/penetration galore and the DL/OL relationship was causal for the overwhelming % of play losses.

      A lot of Denver and Baltimore’s playoff success over the years has been due to extremely productive Edge players (beating solid to good Tackles).

      One of the real problems with OT value is that the can be productive 95 % of the time. But if those 3-4 losses per game are Sack > Fumble (and maybe Scoop and Score) or TFL/Stuff at key moment…they’ve had a bad game.

      The inverse is true for an Edge player. 3-4 gamechanging plays a game (amidst a host of Par plays) is enough to swing the tide in their team’s favor. And the guys that need no scheme help to accomplish it (the guys with devastating Edge rush + countermove + the ability to dynamically change direction at full throttle and make a vicious play on a ball carrier) are the biggest diamonds out there.

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    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1930

      If you look at the Pats D, they don’t have the quick twitch, 9 technique, guy. Good teams can shut that guy down unless his name is Von Miller or Khalil Mack, and even they win with their hands. The best player on that Pats D is Kyle Van Noy, not super fast, but a technician and a dog. I want guys like that. That’s why I’m not high on Polite or Burns, but I haven’t looked at them enough so maybe I’m missing it. Will make a point to sometime.

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    • MichaelMyersIsABucsFan

      Participant
      Post count: 730

      Andre Dillard has some crazy skills (minus the power at POA). His technique leaves a bit to be desired, but if you have faith in your OL coach he would be a good later day 2 pick.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      If you look at the Pats D, they don’t have the quick twitch, 9 technique, guy. Good teams can shut that guy down unless his name is Von Miller or Khalil Mack, and even they win with their hands. The best player on that Pats D is Kyle Van Noy, not super fast, but a technician and a dog. I want guys like that. That’s why I’m not high on Polite or Burns, but I haven’t looked at them enough so maybe I’m missing it. Will make a point to sometime.

      Yup. DLs all accomplish it differently.

      I’m particularly high on Polite due to the combination of:

      – Rare combination of explosive acceleration and change of direction.

      – Rare ability to bend a hard C edge while ripping/dipping or stutter and go.

      – Rare combination of tenaciousness, violence, + hand use and that rare ability to drop hips and explosively go East/West at full bore North/South. The ability to make a play on the football (6 FF in 2018) while ensuring the tackle. This makes him a better finisher than both Allen and Burns.

      Allen and Burns have wingspan/frame on him (and Allen has proven to be a + Coverage player). But he checks all of those boxes. I would be extremely, extremely surprised if he isn’t absolute force as a 7 tech/Spur at the next level.

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      In a way, this 2nd Round pick will be more interesting than the first rounder.
      I am going to assume the first rounder will be a stud defensive lineman. That is the strong point of this draft IMO.
      But the second round pick? It could be a O-line guy, another defensive player. Secondary perhaps. Cant wait, is it draft day yet?

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      In a way, this 2nd Round pick will be more interesting than the first rounder.

      I am going to assume the first rounder will be a stud defensive lineman. That is the strong point of this draft IMO.

      But the second round pick? It could be a O-line guy, another defensive player. Secondary perhaps. Cant wait, is it draft day yet?

      Hopefully we end up with 2 of them (and don’t screw it up this year)!

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      CHARLES OMENIHU VS GEORGIA AND OKLAHOMA 2018

      THE GOOD

      * Perfect frame; ridiculously long, all good weight.

      * Typically plays with good knee bend both coming off the line in his 4/3 point stance (and pretty decent in his stand-up).

      * Get-off can be +. However, sometimes, his backside pops up first which costs him downhill acceleration. If this biomechanic glitch can be rectified, his get-off would be much more consistent (and consistently good).

      * Despite his size/length, I am seeing moments where he looks like has a chance to decently bend a hard edge due to good hand-use and a rip > dip. I don’t see this as something that can be reliably counted on (most times he’s softening a hard edge with hand use), but there are a few moments that show decent ankle flexion and the ability to maintain a tight arc around a 300+ lb man trying to ride him outside of it.

      * Seems to always have an initial rush plan and, when he’s rushing the passer, his hand use is quite aggressive, violent, and advanced. He’s delivering the blow most often (clubs, rips, push > pull, swat and dip or rip and dip.

      * Post initial key read (see below in THE BAD), his football IQ and play recognition seems +. He makes plays on Smoke Screens, Screens, or rush-stall-outs where he is looking to interfere with passing windows.

      * Pursuit and motor are +. I don’t see him lagging behind plays.

      * Played all of 3 through 9 tech at Texas (though I don’t think he can reliably play 3 tech in the pros, even on passing downs, and I question him as a 5 tech…a lot of poor snaps there when he’s dealing with TE + OT combo blocks). Looks like a 7 tech in the pros to me or a weak-side 5.

      * In the open field or in the run game when he generates a stalemate or win, he absolutely swallows up ball carriers…they don’t emerge from his Event Horizon.

      THE BAD

      * Mental processing seems to be not terribly quick. He’s often inexplicably slow off the snap and clearly grinding his gears while he is reading keys. This leads to high variance in reps (with too many being marginal or outright ineffective).

      * He can leave his feet behind far too often. His pad level can get high and/or his frame fully unfurls (even if he keeps his pad level good) and he just plays beyond his base/feet (which negatively impacts all of change of direction, hand-use, overall leverage, and explosiveness).

      * His snap anticipation isn’t great and there is also high variance here.

      * His hand use in the run game has high variance. Sometimes he struggles to control the PoA because he loses all of the advantage that should come with all of that wingspan (he loses strike initiative or his hands are too low, often coupled with his upper half playing beyond his base, so he can’t stack properly and then becomes completely stuck to who is blocking him).

      * His countermove efforts in the rush game is inconsistent and not terribly dynamic.

      * Thought his wingspan is huge and can often make up some for lack of dynamic change of direction ability, his hips are stiff enough that I don’t see him being much more than a linear player in the pros. That limits his play-making behind the LoS, especially with the big QBs that can shrug off a hand of that big span and climb/escape.

      ++++++++++++++++

      Hmmmm…this is some conflicted tape. High variance in reps. This sort of player scares me. Frame and get-off are there, but he has aspects of play (biomechanical quirks, mental processing, tight hips) that significantly impact his ceiling and his play consistency.

      These are the kinds of players I typically don’t like because inconsistency means too many play losses. People fall in love with their great reps and think “oh I can just coach/condition these negative traits out of him” in the same way that females think they can condition abusive traits/behavior out of a lover/potential life partner. Most times…it doesn’t work. Personally, I stay away from a player like this.

      High Rep Variance (see Alexander, Kwon and Evans, Justin)
      Motor Variance (see Smith, Donovan)
      Insufficient Base Athleticism for the Position (see Stewart, MJ)

      Those are probably the three red flags that cause me to push the eject button.

      MID 1ST TO LATE 1ST

      1 – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE)

      2 – NASIR ADDERLEY (S)

      3 – GERALD WILLIS (DT)

      2ND

      4 – MICHAEL DEITER (OG)

      5 – AMANI ORUWARIYE (CB)

      6 – GERMAINE PRATT (ILB)

      7 – MACK WILSON (ILB)

      8 – CHRIS LINDSTROM (OG)

      9 – YODNY CAJUSTE (LT)

      10 – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      11 – ANDRE DILLARD (LT)

      2ND TO 3RD

      12 – DEVIN BUSH (LB)

      13 – CHARLES OMENIHU (EDGE)

      14 – TRAYVON MULLEN (CB)

      15 – DALTON RISNER (RT)

      16 – MICHAEL JORDAN (C)

      3RD TO 5TH

      17 – TE’VON CONEY (ILB)

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      @NOBODY

      Picking up on our conversation from the other thread.
      That Tyler Roemer is going to the combine, I just looked it up.
      So that will tell us a lot.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      I’ll be curious what the combine interviews reveal about his suspension and if there are any character issues.

      Ill have reviewed his tape by then (within the next few days), so it’ll be clear what his football skill-set is/isn’t.

      Seems a little light for 6’7”. I need to see arms for days, light feet/good footwork, knee bend/pad level, and hand use with that frame.

       

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Profiles from the NFL on Roemer

      Link:  https://www.nfl.com/prospects/tyler-roemer?id=32462019-0002-5624-2482-2f10515afc99

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    • Deadpool

      Participant
      Post count: 40

      I think there is a really good chance the Buccaneers go O-Line at the top of the second round. We just need to hope that there isn’t a big run on O-Lineman at the end of the 1st like there tends to be every year.

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      I am starting to hear some scuttlebutt on Yodney.
      He is getting a rep as softer than Charmin. A guy punched him out in a game last season and instead of standing up for himself, he just backed away.
      Some are scoffing at the notion he goes in the first or even in the early rounds at all.
      We’ll see.

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    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1930

      Moved Polite post to 1st round board. My bad. Long day.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      @BucsBay

      Would you mind moving the above post to the other thread, please? Thanks in advance.

      Please wait…

    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      In a way, this 2nd Round pick will be more interesting than the first rounder.

      I am going to assume the first rounder will be a stud defensive lineman. That is the strong point of this draft IMO.

      But the second round pick? It could be a O-line guy, another defensive player. Secondary perhaps. Cant wait, is it draft day yet?

      Hopefully we end up with 2 of them (and don’t screw it up this year)!

      Im hoping we get two 2nd’s but Im also hoping we trade them both to move up into the late 1st.

      Licht seems to be pretty good in the first round, but he outright sucks when the talent thins out at finding good players in the 2nd round.

      Licht has surpassed even Mark Dominik in 2nd round drafting ineptitude and that’s not something done easily. Maybe the worst drafting 2nd round GM in the history of football.

      Please wait…

      GottaJaboo wrote:
      (Justin) Evans will be far superior to (Budda) Baker in the pros.

      Dan Skipper Sucks! (lost bet)
      Update – UDFA Dan Skipper has been signed by the Dallas Cowboys

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      A blind man could make first round pics, just sayin.

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    • Graham

      Participant
      Post count: 1768

      A blind man could make first round pics, just sayin.

      Really? Countless 1st round whiffs every year. Even in the top 15.

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      I think there is a really good chance the Buccaneers go O-Line at the top of the second round. We just need to hope that there isn’t a big run on O-Lineman at the end of the 1st like there tends to be every year.

      Agree.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6413

      TYLER ROEMER OT VS NEVADA AND UNLV 2018

      THE GOOD

      – Frame is ok (needs more weight in lower half for sure), but length is huge. At 6’7″ you would expect long arms, and it appears he has a major span.

      – The run an ample amount of Zone running (both Inside and Out) and Play Action off of it. His Zone footwork is efficient and quick, his base stays under him, and he can Reach edge players in Outside and Drive 3s/4s/5s in Inside. His technique, long arms, lateral agility, upper body strength, and striking are all at their absolute best 1st level in the Zone game (all 3 sets of Inside/Outside/Play-Action). His footwork, agility, hip rotation/snap, striking/extension, control, leg drive to the whistle…all great.

      This is easily the best aspect of his play (1st level Zone blocking). Its not just good, its great.

      – When his strike initiative wins and his hands are set, his functional upper-half strength in pass sets and the run is significant.

      THE BAD

      – San Diego State’s offense runs a lot of Man and Zone offense with some Screens. Unfortunately (projection-wise), a very large % of their passing plays are Zone Play Action Boot. These aren’t anything nearing normal Pass Sets so the sample size of him straight Vertical/45 Setting is not huge.

      – The Vertical/45 (and even a few Quick) Sets I did see featured inefficient/slow-ish footwork, narrow base, inconsistent striking. He was mostly playing against 5 techs, so I wasn’t seeing a ton (maybe 2-3) plays where he was dealing with speed rushing 7 techs trying to bend the C arc. The issues above led to various deficiencies with all kinds of rush suite archetypes on tape; trouble with initial anchor and/or reanchor on bull rush, a time or two of edge being lost and a struggle to ride the rusher out of the back of the pocket, a struggle on a change-of-direction inside countermove.

      – His contact balance in space isn’t great. When he is uncovered and giving a brief help and then working 2nd level, that initial contact gives him balance issues when climbing. Even when that doesn’t happen, he is often not nearly as under control (base is narrow or not under him or just “off:) when he’s moving vertically. He typically finds his man 2nd level, but he often brings neither sureness in technique nor power at contact and is shocked/slipped/stacked and shed often. Further, he sometimes tries to prevent it and Holds (even if it isn’t called).

      You can transfer the above directly to the Screen game.

      – Strike initiative and placement is inconsistent and he doesn’t always work well to reset. His knee-bend isn’t consistent and great and his leverage through the lower-half shows issues because of it. So when his strikes aren’t great, he struggles (regardless of task).

      – His feet are inconsistent when he’s drive blocking someone. Sometimes they churn all the way to the whistle and he works to bury guys…either times, he is entirely content to just occupy people.

      ++++++++++++

      This player concerns me in several different ways; lots of Red Flags. I don’t know what the dismissal was about…but a dismissal is never good. That, coupled with THE BAD above (which isn’t just play/technique issues, but also things that obfuscates projection; primarily lack of NFL archetypal Pass Sets and those on tape are all over the map), and this is a player I typically stay away from.

      I can’t recall if he is going to the Combine. This is the kind of player that will likely do quite well at the combine, but a lot of his underwear athleticism just doesn’t transfer to the game of football due to technical flaws and other issues.

      I’m putting him at the bottom of this heap.

      Sorry AJ!

      MID 1ST TO LATE 1ST

      1 – BRIAN BURNS (EDGE)

      2 – NASIR ADDERLEY (S)

      3 – GERALD WILLIS (DT)

      2ND

      4 – MICHAEL DEITER (OG)

      5 – AMANI ORUWARIYE (CB)

      6 – GERMAINE PRATT (ILB)

      7 – MACK WILSON (ILB)

      8 – CHRIS LINDSTROM (OG)

      9 – YODNY CAJUSTE (LT)

      10 – DAVID EDWARDS (RT)

      11 – ANDRE DILLARD (LT)

      2ND TO 3RD

      12 – DEVIN BUSH (LB)

      13 – CHARLES OMENIHU (EDGE)

      14 – TRAYVON MULLEN (CB)

      15 – DALTON RISNER (RT)

      16 – MICHAEL JORDAN (C)

      3RD TO 5TH

      17 – TE’VON CONEY (ILB)

      18 – TYLER ROEMER (LT)

      Please wait…

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      @NOBODY

      Thanks, much appreciated. Its about what I expected, the guy is a real wildcard. I will be very interested to see where he is drafted.

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Nobody:

      Not sold on Santos.

      Maybe kicker Matt Gay of Utah.

      Pretty good over 50 yds and pretty good on Kick Offs for Touch-backs.

      Seems like a solid risk in the 7th.

      When time gets more manageable, please give it a look.

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      Remain intimately at the