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    • bucinsouthFL

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      Post count: 128

      Can Josh McCown, Mike Glennon, or a QB in the draft this year post that stat line for us? Those are the numbers Russel Wilson posted this past season. (Along with 500 yards rushing and a TD on the ground). The Seahawks won using a great defense, great running game, and great special teams. I’m not saying that is the only way to win in today’s NFL, but the Seahawks proved it could be done. San Fran also made a serious run with this formula. I think Lovie has impact players in piece at all three levels (McCoy, David, Verner) and has the talent to field  a good defense with other great talent (Johnson, Foster, Barron). Doug Martin, Bobby Rainy, and Mike James have all shown they can make and impact in the running game. Even when Hester wasn’t running balls back Lovie always brought good special teams. This might sound crazy, but maybe we don’t need to draft a world beater QB in the 1st (personally the only 1RD talent I see in this draft in JFF), but can afford to take a smart decision making QB who may not have all the physical tools later in the draft (AJ McCarron, Aaron Murray) and groom them into our QB of the future. If they turn out to be a world beater, awesome. Until then let’s surround our QB with talent on the outside and defensive play makers. I know a lot of people think Lovie will not draft a lot of offense, but I think a year out of football and being fired after great success in Chicago can make him see he needs to change his ways a bit. Maybe our draft can look like thisRD 1- Mike Evans. Great WR prospect, ideal size and speed, great hands. QB friendly player.RD 2- Jason Varret. Lack perfect size in today's world of extra large DBs, but has the tools to excel in Lovie's system that will maximize his talent.  RD 3- Jarvis Laundry. Production, passion, huge hands. Love his player. He could make a great WR2RD 5- AJ McCarron/Aaron Murray We walk out of the draft with players who can make an impact right away with Josh McCown under center, and an impact player on defense.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      If Glennon would have played all 16 games he would have been damn near to posting those numbers as a rookie in a piss poor scheme with only 1 legit receiving target.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8096

      If Glennon would have played all 16 games he would have been damn near to posting those numbers as a rookie in a piss poor scheme with only 1 legit receiving target.

      ...and far more inferior o-line play that Seattle... and almost everyone else.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9276

      Those #s don’t account for drive extending plays made in the clutch….plays i have no faith in Glennon’s ability to make.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 110

      yeah I really don’t understand the glennon hate, I’d rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don’t go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      If Glennon would have played all 16 games he would have been damn near to posting those numbers as a rookie in a piss poor scheme with only 1 legit receiving target.

      ...and far more inferior o-line play that Seattle... and almost everyone else.

      ...........and a third string RB to hand off to.  These comments are exactly why we aren't drafting a QB early.  You can't turn your back on this potential.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      yeah I really don't understand the glennon hate, I'd rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don't go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

      I know exactly where the hate comes from ....they associate him with Schiano .Or , in Jdud's case , he doesn't find him attractive.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      yeah I really don't understand the glennon hate, I'd rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don't go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

      I know exactly where the hate comes from ....they associate him with Schiano .Or , in Jdud's case , he doesn't find him attractive.

      If You continue to seem to be attracted to a 3rd round qb based upon an IF - so what is the attraction?  Surely more than simple curiosity appears to be at work here. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8096

      yeah I really don't understand the glennon hate, I'd rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don't go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

      I know exactly where the hate comes from ....they associate him with Schiano .Or , in Jdud's case , he doesn't find him attractive.

      If You continue to seem to be attracted to a 3rd round qb based upon an IF - so what is the attraction?  Surely more than simple curiosity appears to be at work here.

      If...You are hung up on Glennon being picked in the 3rd round... so was Wilson.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      yeah I really don't understand the glennon hate, I'd rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don't go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

      I know exactly where the hate comes from ....they associate him with Schiano .Or , in Jdud's case , he doesn't find him attractive.

      If You continue to seem to be attracted to a 3rd round qb based upon an IF - so what is the attraction?  Surely more than simple curiosity appears to be at work here.

      Say what you want Glennon put up those #s with the shittiest offense talent wise in the modern era of football.  Seahawks, Niners, Falcons twice, Panthers twice, Saints, Rams, - just some of the defenses he was up against.  Not sure any of them are good but, for what it's worth.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      yeah I really don't understand the glennon hate, I'd rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don't go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

      I know exactly where the hate comes from ....they associate him with Schiano .Or , in Jdud's case , he doesn't find him attractive.

      If You continue to seem to be attracted to a 3rd round qb based upon an IF - so what is the attraction?  Surely more than simple curiosity appears to be at work here.

      If...You are hung up on Glennon being picked in the 3rd round... so was Wilson.

      Not a bit - I thought the pick was premature and it appears others might indeed feel the same way.  I thought he was a bad pick for what the team needed then, and still think so.  His play hasn't done anything to change my evaluation.  I have never once confused Glennon's play with Wilson's - and I suspect you haven't either.  I simply don't think too much of him - but apparently you do.  So other than extrapolating and hope he might improve greatly - what is the basis for you evaluation of Glennon as a NFL qb?  Frankly, the best thing I see about Glennon is the fact Hate has determined he isn't the guy - and he is almost always on the wrong track. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      yeah I really don't understand the glennon hate, I'd rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don't go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

      I know exactly where the hate comes from ....they associate him with Schiano .Or , in Jdud's case , he doesn't find him attractive.

      If You continue to seem to be attracted to a 3rd round qb based upon an IF - so what is the attraction?  Surely more than simple curiosity appears to be at work here.

      Say what you want Glennon put up those #s with the **CENSORED**tiest offense talent wise in the modern era of football.  Seahawks, Niners, Falcons twice, Panthers twice, Saints, Rams, - just some of the defenses he was up against.  Not sure any of them are good but, for what it's worth.

      LOL – okay – let’s petition the NFL to only play teams with defenses are lacking.  So far you have identified the fact the NFL is tough.  Then blaming the Oline – which might work if there had been some reason to respect the qb play.  You have made innumerable posts about your distain for this year's qb class - don't let you desire to be right on that idea be the basis for evaluating Glennon. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      yeah I really don't understand the glennon hate, I'd rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don't go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

      I know exactly where the hate comes from ....they associate him with Schiano .Or , in Jdud's case , he doesn't find him attractive.

      If You continue to seem to be attracted to a 3rd round qb based upon an IF - so what is the attraction?  Surely more than simple curiosity appears to be at work here.

      If...You are hung up on Glennon being picked in the 3rd round... so was Wilson.

      Not a bit - I thought the pick was premature and it appears others might indeed feel the same way.  I thought he was a bad pick for what the team needed then, and still think so.  His play hasn't done anything to change my evaluation.  I have never once confused Glennon's play with Wilson's - and I suspect you haven't either.  I simply don't think too much of him - but apparently you do.  So other than extrapolating and hope he might improve greatly - what is the basis for you evaluation of Glennon as a NFL qbFrankly, the best thing I see about Glennon is the fact Hate has determined he isn't the guy - and he is almost always on the wrong track.

      When I see a QB making plays without the benefit of being surrounded by what I expect from a professional football team... I don't judge them against another QB who has (much) better talent.  I'm not sold on  what Glennon will be or won't be.  What I saw last year at QB wouldn't have been any better with McCown, Freeman or any of these QBs in the upcoming draft.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      yeah I really don't understand the glennon hate, I'd rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don't go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

      I know exactly where the hate comes from ....they associate him with Schiano .Or , in Jdud's case , he doesn't find him attractive.

      I can't speak for anyone else but for me, it has nothing to do with Schiano. I just don't like his game. To be a statue in the pocket, one must be a quick thinker and deadly accurate. I don't think he's either.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2962

      I can’t get past the way he played in the 2nd half of games last year. Sure he was a rookie, but if you look beyond his stats he just didn’t do anything to impress me. I went back and watched some of our games, particularly wins, and was far from impressed.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Frankly, the best thing I see about Glennon is the fact Hate has determined he isn't the guy - and he is almost always on the wrong track.

      LMAO.I'm wishing now i'd wished for Glennon pre-draft thus guaranteeing he wouldn't be a Buc.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4057

      The raw numbers aren’t the issue. Wilson hit a higher % complete. Had a higher YPA and YPC. The level of efficiency in Wilson’s game was outstanding. That is what we have to find not just piling up a lot of yards.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      yeah I really don't understand the glennon hate, I'd rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don't go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

      I know exactly where the hate comes from ....they associate him with Schiano .Or , in Jdud's case , he doesn't find him attractive.

      If You continue to seem to be attracted to a 3rd round qb based upon an IF - so what is the attraction?  Surely more than simple curiosity appears to be at work here.

      Say what you want Glennon put up those #s with the **CENSORED**tiest offense talent wise in the modern era of football.  Seahawks, Niners, Falcons twice, Panthers twice, Saints, Rams, - just some of the defenses he was up against.  Not sure any of them are good but, for what it's worth.

      LOL - okay - let's petition the NFL to only play teams with defenses are lacking.  So far you have identified the fact the NFL is tough.  Then blaming the Oline - which might work if there had been some reason to respect the qb play.  You have made innumerable posts about your distain for this year's qb class - don't let you desire to be right on that idea be the basis for evaluating Glennon.

      You have made numerous posts expressing your disdain for Glennon,  always using his third round status as some kind of negative, yet you can't account for his #s.  I list those defenses to make a point.  I use the complete lack of depth and quality skill position players to make a point. I use Glennon's rookie status to make a point.My point is Glennon has earned another year.  You can pour over all of the historical data and you will never find an example of where a first year QB put up these #s or better and was not on the team the following year.  We have had some doozie firsts in Tampa, for me, this would take the cake.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9276

      The raw numbers aren't the issue. Wilson hit a higher % complete. Had a higher YPA and YPC. The level of efficiency in Wilson's game was outstanding. That is what we have to find not just piling up a lot of yards.

      ^^^ this ^^

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      yeah I really don't understand the glennon hate, I'd rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don't go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

      I know exactly where the hate comes from ....they associate him with Schiano .Or , in Jdud's case , he doesn't find him attractive.

      If You continue to seem to be attracted to a 3rd round qb based upon an IF - so what is the attraction?  Surely more than simple curiosity appears to be at work here.

      If...You are hung up on Glennon being picked in the 3rd round... so was Wilson.

      Not a bit - I thought the pick was premature and it appears others might indeed feel the same way.  I thought he was a bad pick for what the team needed then, and still think so.  His play hasn't done anything to change my evaluation.  I have never once confused Glennon's play with Wilson's - and I suspect you haven't either.  I simply don't think too much of him - but apparently you do.  So other than extrapolating and hope he might improve greatly - what is the basis for you evaluation of Glennon as a NFL qbFrankly, the best thing I see about Glennon is the fact Hate has determined he isn't the guy - and he is almost always on the wrong track.

      When I see a QB making plays without the benefit of being surrounded by what I expect from a professional football team... I don't judge them against another QB who has (much) better talent.  I'm not sold on  what Glennon will be or won't be.  What I saw last year at QB wouldn't have been any better with McCown, Freeman or any of these QBs in the upcoming draft.

      And I see a team that needs a better qb if they want to compete in the Sunday league.  Better qbs create some respect by defenses that enable an offense to operate – between Glennon, and Schiano – have to add him in – there was no such respect.  I don't understand how one could not compare qbs around the league  -- but to each their own.  As for the qbs coming out - we would simply disagree as I see qbs that might well go through the 4-5 rounds that have better playing ability/skills than Glennon. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8096

      I see an impatient fanbase who would chase the likes of Elway and Manning off in order to roll the dice on the next Tim Couch.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      yeah I really don't understand the glennon hate, I'd rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don't go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

      I know exactly where the hate comes from ....they associate him with Schiano .Or , in Jdud's case , he doesn't find him attractive.

      I can't speak for anyone else but for me, it has nothing to do with Schiano. I just don't like his game. To be a statue in the pocket, one must be a quick thinker and deadly accurate. I don't think he's either.

      I wouldn't classify you as one of the haters of Glennon though , you just aren't a fan of his game.There is a group of people on here , though ,  who actively hate on him and root against him. They would actually get happy and gloat every time he made a mistake in a game , and they would downplay everything he did well. I'm convinced this group want him to fail because he is "schiano's guy" .

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4057

      I see an impatient fanbase who would chase the likes of Elway and Manning off in order to roll the dice on the next Tim Couch.

      Impatience built on a recent run of fast starting QBs like Luck, RGIII or Roth. Thing is that looking at a lot of those guys their fast starts weren't as good as people recall.  I like Glennon, I thought he showed enough you would at least want to see year 2 of his act and how it plays out. This staff obviously doesn't want to see that so what we think is now immaterial.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      I see an impatient fanbase who would chase the likes of Elway and Manning off in order to roll the dice on the next Tim Couch.

      Impatience built on a recent run of fast starting QBs like Luck, RGIII or Roth. Thing is that looking at a lot of those guys their fast starts weren't as good as people recall.  I like Glennon, I thought he showed enough you would at least want to see year 2 of his act and how it plays out. This staff obviously doesn't want to see that so what we think is now immaterial.

      I would venture a guess that this staff hasn't made up it's mind yet. It's April.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4057

      The signing of a multimillion dollar QB, anointing him the starter and a parade of guys for workouts and interviews says they have decided.  The latter might be a smokescreen but coupled wi the former it paints a pretty clear picture.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      I see an impatient fanbase who would chase the likes of Elway and Manning off in order to roll the dice on the next Tim Couch.

      Impatience built on a recent run of fast starting QBs like Luck, RGIII or Roth. Thing is that looking at a lot of those guys their fast starts weren't as good as people recall.  I like Glennon, I thought he showed enough you would at least want to see year 2 of his act and how it plays out. This staff obviously doesn't want to see that so what we think is now immaterial.

      Well, IDK...  How much does it cost to rent a billboard?  :PI honestly think Lovie wanted the comfort that a vet gives him.  The moves they made in free agency, other than McCown, show they placed a lot of the blame on the o-line.  I'm not sure Glennon won't get his shot at beating McCown out.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      I see an impatient fanbase who would chase the likes of Elway and Manning off in order to roll the dice on the next Tim Couch.

      Impatience built on a recent run of fast starting QBs like Luck, RGIII or Roth. Thing is that looking at a lot of those guys their fast starts weren't as good as people recall.  I like Glennon, I thought he showed enough you would at least want to see year 2 of his act and how it plays out. This staff obviously doesn't want to see that so what we think is now immaterial.

      I would venture a guess that this staff hasn't made up it's mind yet. It's April.

      What their collective answer is I don't know, but I'd bet they've made up their mind as to whether Glennon is a guy they can go with and how important getting a QB in this draft is.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      yeah I really don't understand the glennon hate, I'd rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don't go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

      I know exactly where the hate comes from ....they associate him with Schiano .Or , in Jdud's case , he doesn't find him attractive.

      If You continue to seem to be attracted to a 3rd round qb based upon an IF - so what is the attraction?  Surely more than simple curiosity appears to be at work here.

      Say what you want Glennon put up those #s with the **CENSORED**tiest offense talent wise in the modern era of football.  Seahawks, Niners, Falcons twice, Panthers twice, Saints, Rams, - just some of the defenses he was up against.  Not sure any of them are good but, for what it's worth.

      LOL - okay - let's petition the NFL to only play teams with defenses are lacking.  So far you have identified the fact the NFL is tough.  Then blaming the Oline - which might work if there had been some reason to respect the qb play.  You have made innumerable posts about your distain for this year's qb class - don't let you desire to be right on that idea be the basis for evaluating Glennon.

      You have made numerous posts expressing your disdain for Glennon,  always using his third round status as some kind of negative, yet you can't account for his #s.  I list those defenses to make a point.  I use the complete lack of depth and quality skill position players to make a point. I use Glennon's rookie status to make a point.My point is Glennon has earned another year.  You can pour over all of the historical data and you will never find an example of where a first year QB put up these #s or better and was not on the team the following year.  We have had some doozie firsts in Tampa, for me, this would take the cake.

      Numerous posts on distain – I don’t think so but maybe to you.  I don’t care about the round he was picked in but for the availability of other better players.  Glennon earned what he has – it speaks for itself.  Lovie and Licht watched every play he made – and then retained McCown.  Your continued comments about the qb class, Glennon – none seem to be consistent with what is happening.  That might be a clue.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      Numerous posts on distain - I don't think so but maybe to you.  I don't care about the round he was picked in but for the availability of other better players.  Glennon earned what he has - it speaks for itself.  Lovie and Licht watched every play he made - and then retained McCown.  Your continued comments about the qb class, Glennon - none seem to be consistent with what is happening.  That might be a clue.Bringing McCown in is the first sign to me that we are not going QB in this draft.  You can read into any way you would like.  L&L are about as conservative a team as Tampa could find.  We'll know in three weeks.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1875

      My thought about McCown being signed had something to say about the bucs qbs at that moment in time, and the need to get better in the near future.  And there is that part about wanting to win now – and Lovie knowing McCown.. whatever – here’s hoping it all works out for the best.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4140

      Its clear to me Glennon isn’t a great fit for the new offense.  These guys want to put a their guy in and develop another.  Fair or unfair that's the most likely truth.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      I wouldn't classify you as one of the haters of Glennon though , you just aren't a fan of his game.

      Not one bit!

      The signing of a multimillion dollar QB, anointing him the starter and a parade of guys for workouts and interviews says they have decided.  The latter might be a smokescreen but coupled wi the former it paints a pretty clear picture.

      A Picasso some clearly refuse to recognize its beauty.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      I wouldn't classify you as one of the haters of Glennon though , you just aren't a fan of his game.

      Not one bit!

      The signing of a multimillion dollar QB, anointing him the starter and a parade of guys for workouts and interviews says they have decided.  The latter might be a smokescreen but coupled wi the former it paints a pretty clear picture.

      A Picasso some clearly refuse to recognize its beauty.

      Picasso?  Much older than that...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      I wouldn't classify you as one of the haters of Glennon though , you just aren't a fan of his game.

      Not one bit!

      The signing of a multimillion dollar QB, anointing him the starter and a parade of guys for workouts and interviews says they have decided.  The latter might be a smokescreen but coupled wi the former it paints a pretty clear picture.

      A Picasso some clearly refuse to recognize its beauty.

      I keep going back to Licht being a Nebraska born conservative and Lovie, being Lovie and I just dont think they will do anything drastic with the first pick.  A multimillion dollar QB might seem like an indictment if it was 1985.  Today, even Tavaris Jackson is good for that.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4623

      Can Josh McCown, Mike Glennon, or a QB in the draft this year post that stat line for us? Those are the numbers Russel Wilson posted this past season. (Along with 500 yards rushing and a TD on the ground). The Seahawks won using a great defense, great running game, and great special teams. I'm not saying that is the only way to win in today's NFL, but the Seahawks proved it could be done. San Fran also made a serious run with this formula. I think Lovie has impact players in piece at all three levels (McCoy, David, Verner) and has the talent to field  a good defense with other great talent (Johnson, Foster, Barron). Doug Martin, Bobby Rainy, and Mike James have all shown they can make and impact in the running game. Even when Hester wasn't running balls back Lovie always brought good special teams. This might sound crazy, but maybe we don't need to draft a world beater QB in the 1st (personally the only 1RD talent I see in this draft in JFF), but can afford to take a smart decision making QB who may not have all the physical tools later in the draft (AJ McCarron, Aaron Murray) and groom them into our QB of the future. If they turn out to be a world beater, awesome. Until then let's surround our QB with talent on the outside and defensive play makers. I know a lot of people think Lovie will not draft a lot of offense, but I think a year out of football and being fired after great success in Chicago can make him see he needs to change his ways a bit. Maybe our draft can look like thisRD 1- Mike Evans. Great WR prospect, ideal size and speed, great hands. QB friendly player.RD 2- Jason Varret. Lack perfect size in today's world of extra large DBs, but has the tools to excel in Lovie's system that will maximize his talent.  RD 3- Jarvis Laundry. Production, passion, huge hands. Love his player. He could make a great WR2RD 5- AJ McCarron/Aaron Murray We walk out of the draft with players who can make an impact right away with Josh McCown under center, and an impact player on defense.

      The problem with looking at Wilson's cumulative stat line is it doesn't take into account how many (or how few) passes he threw. He got those 26 TDs and 3500 yards on only 407 pass attempts because he had the #12 completion percentage and #4 yards per attempt. He was extremely productive every time he threw a pass. McCown was actually right up there with him, but Glennon was miles behind. Glennon actually threw more passes than Wilson last year, despite only starting 13 games. In order for Glennon to throw 26 TDs, he would have had to pass the ball 569 times, or 162 more than Wilson. In order to throw for 3,357 yards, he would have had to pass the ball 535 times, or 128 more than Wilson. Basically, Glennon would have needed another 150 pass attempts to equal the productivity of Wilson. While Glennon is busy wasting all those extra passes, the Seahawks have an extra 150 plays to run the ball and if you figure 4 yards per carry, that's an extra 600 yards of offense over the course of a season. That's why Seattle is good and the Bucs weren't.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 128

      I think there are quite a few more factors than pass attempts that could help explain why Seattle>Tampa last year, FRG…

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 214

      Those are some really true and relevant points regarding YPA, and completion %. Hopefully McCown or Glennon can play at that level with better receivers and better coaching. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8983

      My draft is the bomb yo.Draft manziel, then trade up from 2 to 13 to draft evans.We wouldn't have any picks left, but hey..wtf would care?

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2847

          1) Glennon gets thrown in the fire with far less talent around him AS A ROOKIE and in 13 games put up numbers almost as good as Wilson in his 2nd year starting. So that’s a problem? I’m actually encouraged by it myself…        2)  No, Glennon isn't the all-round athlete Wilson is, but Russell RELIES on extending plays with his feet. He doesn't see the field from the pocket nearly as well as Glennon, so HAS to run to find receivers.      3) Besides Jackson, WHO were those Buc receivers getting open he didn't see again? His # of TD throws were amazing to me, given our lack of receiver talent...    

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4623

          1) Glennon gets thrown in the fire with far less talent around him AS A ROOKIE and in 13 games put up numbers almost as good as Wilson in his 2nd year starting. So that's a problem? I'm actually encouraged by it myself...

      He did not put up numbers "almost" as good as Russell Wilson. As I posted right above here:

      Glennon actually threw more passes than Wilson last year, despite only starting 13 games. In order for Glennon to throw 26 TDs, he would have had to pass the ball 569 times, or 162 more than Wilson. In order to throw for 3,357 yards, he would have had to pass the ball 535 times, or 128 more than Wilson. Basically, Glennon would have needed another 150 pass attempts to equal the productivity of Wilson. While Glennon is busy wasting all those extra passes, the Seahawks have an extra 150 plays to run the ball and if you figure 4 yards per carry, that's an extra 600 yards of offense over the course of a season. That's why Seattle is good and the Bucs weren't.

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      Its clear to me Glennon isn't a great fit for the new offense.  These guys want to put a their guy in and develop another.  Fair or unfair that's the most likely truth.

          At this point, what we plan to do on the offensive side of the ball besides run it is shrouded in mystery… One can interpret what we did in FA in many ways, all with merit. This draft, IMO, will determine to a large degree what direction we go. I’m a Glennon fan, but will remain a Buc fan and supporter whether he is our QB or not.

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    • Anonymous

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      yeah I really don't understand the glennon hate, I'd rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don't go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

      I know exactly where the hate comes from ....they associate him with Schiano .Or , in Jdud's case , he doesn't find him attractive.

      I can't speak for anyone else but for me, it has nothing to do with Schiano. I just don't like his game. To be a statue in the pocket, one must be a quick thinker and deadly accurate. I don't think he's either.

      I agree with this assessment. He is relatively accurate but it seems not when it counts. I haven't seen the ability to extend drives. The proof is in the countless 3 and outs we put up last season. Damn near the entire first half of the game the offense struggled to muster any kind of attack at all. Sure, if you want to put up 10 points a game consistently then you're doing a fineee job.

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    • Anonymous

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          1) Glennon gets thrown in the fire with far less talent around him AS A ROOKIE and in 13 games put up numbers almost as good as Wilson in his 2nd year starting. So that's a problem? I'm actually encouraged by it myself...

      He did not put up numbers "almost" as good as Russell Wilson. As I posted right above here:

      Glennon actually threw more passes than Wilson last year, despite only starting 13 games. In order for Glennon to throw 26 TDs, he would have had to pass the ball 569 times, or 162 more than Wilson. In order to throw for 3,357 yards, he would have had to pass the ball 535 times, or 128 more than Wilson. Basically, Glennon would have needed another 150 pass attempts to equal the productivity of Wilson. While Glennon is busy wasting all those extra passes, the Seahawks have an extra 150 plays to run the ball and if you figure 4 yards per carry, that's an extra 600 yards of offense over the course of a season. That's why Seattle is good and the Bucs weren't.

        I was referring to the original numbers posted. I would EXPECT a rookie to be even FURTHER behind stat-wise; not at all concerned. Wilson himself knows his success last season was largely due to the team around him, much less so to his ability to see the field and hit receivers.

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    • Anonymous

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          Ah, and the 2nd half doldrums we’ve had, I pin more on Sullivan/Schiano for their failure to make half-time adjustments. Schiano seemed to question the need for it….

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    • Anonymous

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          1) Glennon gets thrown in the fire with far less talent around him AS A ROOKIE and in 13 games put up numbers almost as good as Wilson in his 2nd year starting. So that's a problem? I'm actually encouraged by it myself...

      He did not put up numbers "almost" as good as Russell Wilson. As I posted right above here:

      Glennon actually threw more passes than Wilson last year, despite only starting 13 games. In order for Glennon to throw 26 TDs, he would have had to pass the ball 569 times, or 162 more than Wilson. In order to throw for 3,357 yards, he would have had to pass the ball 535 times, or 128 more than Wilson. Basically, Glennon would have needed another 150 pass attempts to equal the productivity of Wilson. While Glennon is busy wasting all those extra passes, the Seahawks have an extra 150 plays to run the ball and if you figure 4 yards per carry, that's an extra 600 yards of offense over the course of a season. That's why Seattle is good and the Bucs weren't.

        I was referring to the original numbers posted. I would EXPECT a rookie to be even FURTHER behind stat-wise; not at all concerned. Wilson himself knows his success last season was largely due to the team around him, much less so to his ability to see the field and hit receivers.

      Cumulative numbers are irrelevant. If Adrian Peterson rushes for 1,000 yards on 200 carries, it's not the same as when Errict Rhett does it on 300 carries. Peterson did it a lot better. Peterson's team gets an extra 100 plays to do something else that Rhett's team doesn't get.

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    • Anonymous

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          2)  No, Glennon isn't the all-round athlete Wilson is, but Russell RELIES on extending plays with his feet. He doesn't see the field from the pocket nearly as well as Glennon, so HAS to run to find receivers. 

      The word "relies" is an absolute lie!!

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    • Anonymous

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          Alright, Hate, I’ll put it this way; Russell Wilson in the pocket would be nowhere near as successful moving the chains as Russell Wilson running out of the pocket. Not saying he’s a 100% fail while in the pocket, but his numbers would take a major hit…

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    • Anonymous

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          Alright, Hate, I'll put it this way; Russell Wilson in the pocket would be nowhere near as successful moving the chains as Russell Wilson running out of the pocket. Not saying he's a 100% fail while in the pocket, but his numbers would take a major hit...

      I'd put money on it that he's just as good in the pocket. Because his awareness is outstanding. I guarantee he's a better pocket passer than Glennon will ever be and McCown for that matter.

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    • Anonymous

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          Alright, Hate, I'll put it this way; Russell Wilson in the pocket would be nowhere near as successful moving the chains as Russell Wilson running out of the pocket. Not saying he's a 100% fail while in the pocket, but his numbers would take a major hit...

      I don't even know how to respond to that declaration. Simply speechless!!

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    • Anonymous

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      It would be great if we could stop jerking Russell Wilson off so much on this board. It’s a little nauseating. 

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    • Anonymous

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      It’s a football board. Not strictly just about the Bucs. Read the description of “The Red Board”

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    • Anonymous

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      It would be great if we could stop jerking Russell Wilson off so much on this board. It's a little nauseating.

      oh...the irony!!

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    • Anonymous

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      Face it. If Russell Wilson was a Buccaneer, he’d suck… at least here.

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    • Anonymous

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      Face it. If Russell Wilson was a Buccaneer, he'd suck... at least here.

      I'd be curious to see what Wilson would have done here with the crappy O, limited talent at WR and Sully's offense.I agree that the hate for Glennon is getting in the way of some being able to see things without a bias. For a rookie and in the situation he was in, he did pretty well.Having said that, it's clear that L and L see McCown as the starter unless something unexpected happens during camp. I'd love to see Glennon take another step forward and see whatthat looks like.If they draft a QB early, I think Glennon will be gone. And I won't be upset. Unless he lights it up somewhere else.

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    • Anonymous

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      I think Wilson really is limited in the pocket because of hIs height. I don’t think he can see the field too well and it’s why he’s so quick to take off running if his 1st read is covered and get out of the pocket.There were times last year hed start leaving the pocket and no one was even near him. He's so good at improvising though that he can usually hide this deficiency in this game  , but it is there.

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    • Anonymous

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      I think I must not have watched the Seattle games you did DJ, and NDY, every game I saw Wilson play he was leading his team with positive plays – regardless of the call/formation.  And watching him through the playoffs he was a stud performer.  He did all that could be asked or anticipated

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    • Anonymous

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      He leaves the pocket early often. Can’t believe you don’t see that.I'm not saying he isn't a good player , but that's the truth.If you think he is sitting in the pocket and going through progressions on the regular you aren't watching. A lot of his game is play action and then 1 read. If the one read isn't there take off and make something happen. He's very good at it.

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    • Anonymous

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      I think he is a perfect fit for what his coach wants.  I have seen him go through progressions, and other times he has limited options… and yes, he is very good at it.

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    • Anonymous

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      He leaves the pocket early often. Can't believe you don't see that.I'm not saying he isn't a good player , but that's the truth.If you think he is sitting in the pocket and going through progressions on the regular you aren't watching. A lot of his game is play action and then 1 read. If the one read isn't there take off and make something happen. He's very good at it.

      He only had one option....and he's now in Detroit

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    • Anonymous

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      That Baldwin guy was balling out in the playoffs.

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    • Anonymous

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      That Baldwin guy was balling out in the playoffs.

      agree

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    • Anonymous

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        No question Russell Wilson had a great year and deserves a lot of credit. The key to his ‘scrambling’ is he doesn’t run out of the pocket necessarily to gain yardage. While on the move he does a great job of keeping his eyes downfield, buying time for himself and his receivers, then quickly setting up and delivering the football. When he NEEDS to run downfield, he does, but it’s not that often. Contrast that with Cam Newton, who when he decides to run, forget the pass…  Wonder how Peyton Manning would have done in the Bucs' offense last year...

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    • Anonymous

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      Wilson and Bridgewater’s play are very similar.  I’d be happy with either.

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    • Anonymous

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      He leaves the pocket early often. Can't believe you don't see that.I'm not saying he isn't a good player , but that's the truth.If you think he is sitting in the pocket and going through progressions on the regular you aren't watching. A lot of his game is play action and then 1 read. If the one read isn't there take off and make something happen. He's very good at it.

      Surprised anybody who watches his games didn't see that.Amazing he's so successful with that style. He's a rare breed.

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    • Anonymous

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      Wilson and Bridgewater's play are very similar.  I'd be happy with either.

      I don't se the similarities. TB doesn't have half the escapability talent that RW does.

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    • Anonymous

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      I agree that Glennon earned the chance to show what he can do with actual talent around him and a coach that doesn’t make him play with his hands cuffed behind his back.  I think some of you underestimate how much the safety net of a good defense and a consistent running game can help a QB.  I’m not trying to take anything away from Wilson because he is a very good young QB, but he is also in a very good situation that very rarely forces him to make a play.  I am also in the group that doesn't get the Glennon hate.  I don't think anybody would have looked good for us last year.  Drive in and drive out I saw us run a draw on first and 2nd down and then expect Glennon to convert 3rd and long with 1 reciever, no line, and a blitzer in his face.  That situation would make Drew Brees look bad.

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    • Anonymous

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        Wonder how Peyton Manning would have done in the Bucs' offense last year...

      He would have been great because great QBs rise above.

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    • Anonymous

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      One thing is for sure. If the Bucs do not draft a QB in this draft then they’ve just given Glennon a non verbal vote of confidence. If the Bucs select a QB in the first 3 rounds then Glennon will be shopped for an extra pick next year.

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    • Anonymous

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      Agreed Bucko

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    • Anonymous

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        I agree, unless we trade down and add an extra couple picks.Then we might grab a QB like an Aaron Murray/JimmyG to develop alongside Glennon.

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    • Anonymous

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        Wonder how Peyton Manning would have done in the Bucs' offense last year...

      He would have been great because great QBs rise above.

      you put Peyton on the worst team in the league and they are going to still  win at least 11.  He’s that good.  I would say the same about Brady as well.  No other QBs would I say that about. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Not without an OLine

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    • Anonymous

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      you put Peyton on the worst team in the league and they are going to still  win at least 11.  He's that good.  I would say the same about Brady as well.  No other QBs would I say that about.

      Rodgers, Brees??

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    • Anonymous

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      They would be much improved and probably at least .500 but Rodgrrs and Brees on the Jaguars I don’t think they win more than 9.

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    • Anonymous

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      you put Peyton on the worst team in the league and they are going to still  win at least 11.  He's that good.  I would say the same about Brady as well.  No other QBs would I say that about.

      Rodgers, Brees??

      Without an Oline no QB would succeed.  Peyton is the best regular season QB of all time so, while it's fun to imagine him in the Pewter, Red, Orange, Grey, White and Black......there isn't a Peyton in this draft.

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    • Anonymous

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      “Without an Oline no QB would succeed.”Don't really agree.  QBs like Brees, Brady and Manning make their OLs look better than they really are. 

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    • Anonymous

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      “..there isn’t a Peyton in this draft.”Peyton is one of the top 5 QBs to ever play the game and the game has been around for a hundred years.  Is that the standard you are going to hold for any QB prospect? 

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    • Anonymous

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      Not without an OLine

      Go look at the Colts' numbers with Manning in 2010 and then all the same players but Manning in 2011.

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    • Anonymous

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      "Without an Oline no QB would succeed."Don't really agree.  QBs like Brees, Brady and Manning make their OLs look better than they really are.

      agree 100%

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    • Anonymous

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        Peyton needs a quick-tempo offense as he’s got poor escapeability at this stage. I seriously doubt he’d have survived long as a Buc in Sullivan’s offense with last season’s Buc roster. The beatings would have been brutal.  In his OWN up-tempo offense, whole different story...  

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    • Anonymous

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      Well if coarse you let Payton have an offense he feels comfortable with.  Same with Brady.  But given the same talent that was here to work with both would have managed just fine.  They always do.

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    • Anonymous

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      Well if coarse you let Payton have an offense he feels comfortable with.  Same with Brady.  But given the same talent that was here to work with both would have managed just fine.  They always do.

        S&B, do you think Sullivan would’ve been out of a job? His offensive schemes are totally opposite what Peyton did in Denver…

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    • Anonymous

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      Well I imagine Sully is friendly with his brother and Peyton wouldn’t demand that the team fire him but Peyton pretty much runs the show at this point in his career.  He would say how things are going to be.  But that’s one of the things that makes Peyton great.  Hes a coach on the field.

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    • Anonymous

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          Sounds good, S&B.     Peyton in his offense would've greatly improved our O, but I'm dubious Peyton would have bested Brees in our division tho'. Or even Newton, as both had much better teams around them.    

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    • Anonymous

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        Peyton needs a quick-tempo offense as he's got poor escapeability at this stage. I seriously doubt he'd have survived long as a Buc in Sullivan's offense with last season's Buc roster. The beatings would have been brutal.  In his OWN up-tempo offense, whole different story...

      C'mon man, we all know Peyton calls the shots!!

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    • Anonymous

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          He probably has that as a stipulation in his contract, and for good reason. He’d have gotten near killed in Sullivan’s offense…  ;D

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    • Anonymous

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      Josh Freeman got sacked 20+ fewer times in Sullivan’s offense in 2012 with the same offensive linemen. The reason Glennon got “killed” was because he doesn’t know when to get rid of the ball. Peyton Manning knows when to get rid of the ball.

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    • Anonymous

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      "..there isn't a Peyton in this draft."Peyton is one of the top 5 QBs to ever play the game and the game has been around for a hundred years.  Is that the standard you are going to hold for any QB prospect?

      We have spent far too many # 1 picks in our franchise's history to not start being a little more prudent with our draft picks.  I am much more intrigued by what we already have in house QB wise than I am by any QB out there that has never played a down in the NFL.  If you address the positions that are talent rich in this draft then you dont have to have Peyton under center to have a solid team. 

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    • Anonymous

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      If you address the positions that are talent rich in this draft then you dont have to have Peyton under center to have a solid team.

      Solid gets you the Bengals...talent rich but unable to win because their QB sux.

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    • Anonymous

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      If you address the positions that are talent rich in this draft then you dont have to have Peyton under center to have a solid team.

      Solid gets you the Bengals...talent rich but unable to win because their QB sux.

      Solid gets you the Lombardi, just ask Flacco and Eli how surrounding talent matters in this game. 

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    • Anonymous

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      If you address the positions that are talent rich in this draft then you dont have to have Peyton under center to have a solid team.

      Solid gets you the Bengals...talent rich but unable to win because their QB sux.

      Solid gets you the Lombardi, just ask Flacco and Eli how surrounding talent matters in this game.

      If you’re qb isn’t all that – there is another option – just need a superior defense and a capable offense, and an assfull of luck

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    • Anonymous

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      If you address the positions that are talent rich in this draft then you dont have to have Peyton under center to have a solid team.

      Solid gets you the Bengals...talent rich but unable to win because their QB sux.

      Solid gets you the Lombardi, just ask Flacco and Eli how surrounding talent matters in this game.

      If you're qb isn't all that - there is another option - just need a superior defense and a capable offense, and an assfull of luck

      Exactly!!And both Flacco and Eli were contributors to their team's championships...not along for the ride.

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    • Anonymous

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      Josh Freeman got sacked 20+ fewer times in Sullivan's offense in 2012 with the same offensive linemen. The reason Glennon got "killed" was because he doesn't know when to get rid of the ball. Peyton Manning knows when to get rid of the ball.

        I expect Glennon stayed in the pocket and went thru his progressions more consistantly than Freeman. Freeman didn’t like getting hit and often seemed to just unload it prematurely somewhere in the neighborhood of his checkdown receiver.

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    • Anonymous

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      If you address the positions that are talent rich in this draft then you dont have to have Peyton under center to have a solid team.

      Solid gets you the Bengals...talent rich but unable to win because their QB sux.

      Solid gets you the Lombardi, just ask Flacco and Eli how surrounding talent matters in this game.

      If you're qb isn't all that - there is another option - just need a superior defense and a capable offense, and an assfull of luck

      Exactly!!And both Flacco and Eli were contributors to their team's championships...not along for the ride.

      Any QB has to contribute.  No one rides for free but time has shown that these two super bowl winning QBs are only as good as their surrounding cast.  Which is usually the case yet others want to deify the QB and make is seem as QB X is invincible. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Josh Freeman got sacked 20+ fewer times in Sullivan's offense in 2012 with the same offensive linemen. The reason Glennon got "killed" was because he doesn't know when to get rid of the ball. Peyton Manning knows when to get rid of the ball.

        I expect Glennon stayed in the pocket and went thru his progressions more consistantly than Freeman. Freeman didn't like getting hit and often seemed to just unload it prematurely somewhere in the neighborhood of his checkdown receiver.

      I don’t think that was the case and I didn’t even like him a little. I think Freeman played behind a line he knew, and with receivers he knew, and understood the NFL game better.  That says nothing bad about Glennon beyond the inverse of those thoughts

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    • Anonymous

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      Josh Freeman got sacked 20+ fewer times in Sullivan's offense in 2012 with the same offensive linemen. The reason Glennon got "killed" was because he doesn't know when to get rid of the ball. Peyton Manning knows when to get rid of the ball.

        I expect Glennon stayed in the pocket and went thru his progressions more consistantly than Freeman. Freeman didn't like getting hit and often seemed to just unload it prematurely somewhere in the neighborhood of his checkdown receiver.

      How stupid to get rid if the ball before getting hit. Much better to just sit there like Glennon.

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    • Anonymous

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      Yes a rookie who doesn’t know the progression and reads as well as a veteran player. Shocking. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Yes a rookie who doesn't know the progression and reads as well as a veteran player. Shocking.

      Glennon gets graded by this board like he had 9Tds to 19 picks and was in his third season last year.  Solid post dalbuc.

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    • Anonymous

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      Yes a rookie who doesn't know the progression and reads as well as a veteran player. Shocking.

      He got sacked at a significantly higher rate than Freeman and Gradkowski as rookies. It has nothing to do with Glennon being a rookie, it has to do with him being slow-footed and not handling pressure well. We all knew when he was drafted he was a Drew Bledsoe-esque statue. This isn't a surprise. He gets hit a lot because that's who he is.

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    • Anonymous

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      Wow!  OK, let's forget that the rushing game dropped off from 4.4 to 3.8 YPC ... that couldn't have been the o-line's fault, since it was the same guys.While we're at it... let's forget that Freeman's sack% went up from 4.5% to 6.9% behind those same guys.Let's face it... Glennon's 8.8% just doesn't cut it when Russell Wilson's 9.8% sack rate is what it takes to win the Super Bowl.

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    • Anonymous

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          Glennon no question is slow-footed, but so was Brad Johnson.     What Glennon DOES need to work on is recognizing the speed of the NFL, not just DBs, but pass rushers. That, along with declining O'line play (much on Joseph and Penn) caused many of his sacks.     I expect to see improvement in that part of Glennon's game this season.

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    • Anonymous

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      If Glennon would have played all 16 games he would have been damn near to posting those numbers as a rookie in a piss poor scheme with only 1 legit receiving target.

      ...and far more inferior o-line play that Seattle... and almost everyone else.

      False.  By almost any reckoning Seattle had a worse OL than us.

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    • Anonymous

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          I expect to see improvement in that part of Glennon's game this season.

      Haven't seen him in any photo shoots. Wouldn't surprise me if Glennon never gets to wear the new jersey.

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    • Anonymous

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      Why are some people still talking about Glennon … as if he will be relevant?

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    • Anonymous

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      Why are some people still talking about Glennon ... as if he will be relevant?

      we need him to be relevant so we can recoup a decent draft pick

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    • Anonymous

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      Now that sounds like a plan Hate!!

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    • Anonymous

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          I expect to see improvement in that part of Glennon’s game this season.

      This season? When exactly do you think he's going to play?

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    • Anonymous

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          I expect to see improvement in that part of Glennon's game this season.

      This season? When exactly do you think he's going to play?

      He's going to be 2014s version of what Josh Johnson was in 2009.McCown will start, the coaches will realize that yes he really is garbage (like the bulk of his career suggests) by week 5 and give Mike his shot, Mike's fanboys will all soil their shorts with excitement but that will be short lived as he'll then continue to be completely useless in 90%+ of the drives he's on the field for while playing safe enough to have a nice stat line, after a couple of weeks of that we will be out of playoff contention and the rookie the team was hoping to give a year to learn will get his shot.Fans will then be left thinking "well that was a wasted season and why were trash like Glennon & McCown ever allowed to be starters."

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    • Anonymous

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      yeah I really don't understand the glennon hate, I'd rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don't go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

      I know exactly where the hate comes from ....they associate him with Schiano .Or , in Jdud's case , he doesn't find him attractive.

      This. Along with the few people that were holding on hope that Freeman would return to 2010 form.  People seem to forget or totally gloss over the fact the guy was a rookie with no running game or much at WR to help him out.  No shit he's going to have some bad games.

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    • Anonymous

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      yeah I really don't understand the glennon hate, I'd rather give him a shot with a competent coach and oc and better receivers and oline. if we don't go qb at 7, I honestly think he beats out mccown in preseason for the starting job.

      I know exactly where the hate comes from ....they associate him with Schiano .Or , in Jdud's case , he doesn't find him attractive.

      This. Along with the few people that were holding on hope that Freeman would return to 2010 form.  People seem to forget or totally gloss over the fact the guy was a rookie with no running game or much at WR to help him out.  No **CENSORED** he's going to have some bad games.

      This... Plus it's just the way of message boards. There's no middle ground with most posters because they are insecure about their point. The result is over-the-top arguments on both sides. If you don't like Glennkn or you really want some other QB, then for many posters Glennon must be a bumbling incompetent and he must be compared to Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. If you really like Glennon the you must portray him as the second coming. The truth is in between

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      The truth is in the team.  A team that is built the right way, with stars on both lines, tends to have great results.  If a GM comes in and focuses on positions of need and has the right coaching staff in place, we will compete right away.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      I just don’t like his game….that’s it for me.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      I stepped away from the board for almost a month…. i come back to the same old crap

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      It’s the pre-draft off-season, you really expected something else?

      Please wait…

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