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    • Blayton Cigsby

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      There are two threads here on the topic of the Durham investigation and one that discusses whether Fox News is comparable to Main Stream Media. This all comes from Trump tweeting (and Murdoch news reinforcing the claim) that the Durham motion “proves” he was “spied” on in 2016

      This link below is to a long, VERY detailed ann ongoing review of that claim – that Trump was spied on in 2016 – by the Washington Post. As you can see the title is “Why Trump is Once Again Claiming He was Spied on in 2016.” WaPo is essentially updating its initial reporting with the facts as they have developed since.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/14/why-trump-is-once-again-claiming-that-he-was-spied-upon-2016/

      It’s apparently important enough a story to WaPo that they even have it in front of their paywall so you can access it for free.

      So here’s the test:

      SPECIFICALLY – as in quote it here in your response – what FACT/sentence(a) is/are “fake” AND what, specifically, is your counter position AND source?

      This is your chance Trumpers – on a topic that is near and dear to your heart- to prove that the MSM is “fake news.” So, don’t just post some rambling rant, what FACT(s) does the WaPo assert that is FAKE? As in, “the FBI is behind Jan 6th” fake (ie Faux News level fake)?

    • Blayton Cigsby

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      Post count: 3013

      Here is the CRITICAL difference between Faux News and WaPo AND ITS THE POINT I MADE YESTERDAY…

      Faux News actually quotes Kash Patels embellishment of the Durham motion.

      “On Fox News, for example, a story about the Durham filing ran with the headline “Clinton campaign paid to ‘infiltrate’ Trump Tower, White House servers to link Trump to Russia: Durham.” There are a few problems with this, including that the connection between Clinton’s team and the Perkins Coie Alfa Bank investigation is not direct, nor did Durham use the word “infiltrate,” a word that suggests illicit access to data.
      Instead, both of those claims come not from Durham but, as the article makes clear, from former Trump staffer Kash Patel. It’s a statement from Patel that makes the Clinton claim and uses the word infiltrate. It’s Patel — whose recent career has often centered on backstopping Trump’s claims of being unfairly investigated — who drew the line that Fox is attributing to the special counsel. (Fox News later updated its headline.)”

      NO NEWS ORGANIZATION WOULD DO THAT BECAUSE ITS NOT ACCURATE AND PATEL IS NOT CREDIBLE (he is a party pushing a narrative )

      Kkkchron parroted that Faux News headline do he parroted Kash Patel. This is how actual
      FAKE News becomes the story in the cocoon

    • Blayton Cigsby

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      Post count: 3013

      AS A LITTKE MOTIVATION FOR YOU TRUMPERs….

      The argument I have made here, which will be proven true by this thread … is that Trumpers care more about the Cocoon than the actual truth. The truth here – as reported by WaPo – is that the story you’re all pushing AND THAT FAUX NEWS IS PUSHING….. is false

      So…

    • Blayton Cigsby

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      Post count: 3013

      Buggsy and Chron already talking junk, but nothing here

      Just like I’ve always said …

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3013

      I can even think of one leap in the article … but you Trumpers will not even try because it’s more important to you to have the faux grievance

      Especially because Hillary mocked you all so savagely

      Well, and she’s a “broad”

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1866

      nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/tech-exec-used-access-white-house-computers-look-dirt-trump-says-speci-rcna16123

      A tech executive “exploited” his access to computer data at the Trump White House to find “derogatory information” about President Donald Trump, a special counsel appointed during the Trump administration said in a court filing Friday.

      John Durham, appointed by then-Attorney General William Barr in 2020 to probe the origins of the FBI’s investigation of Russian election interference, said “Tech Executive-1,” not named in the filing but first identified by The New York Times as Rodney Joffe, used his access to domain name system, or DNS, data to compile information about which computers and servers the White House servers were communicating with.

      There is also this from the Durham filing itself:

      4. The Indictment also alleges that, beginning in approximately July 2016, Tech Executive-1 had worked with the defendant, a U.S. investigative firm retained by Law Firm-1 on behalf of the Clinton Campaign, numerous cyber researchers, and employees at multiple Internet companies to assemble the purported data and white papers. In connection with these efforts, Tech Executive-1 exploited his access to non-public and/or proprietary Internet data. Tech Executive-1 also enlisted the assistance of researchers at a U.S.-based university who were receiving and analyzing large amounts of Internet data in connection with a pending federal government cybersecurity research contract. Tech Executive-1 tasked these researchers to mine Internet data to establish “an inference” and “narrative” tying then-candidate Trump to Russia. In doing so, Tech Executive-1 indicated that he was seeking to please certain “VIPs,” referring to individuals at Law Firm-1 and the Clinton Campaign.

      Data from this “mining” was then cherry picked and provided to Sussman who presented it to the FBI as proof that Trump was communicating with the Russians.

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1866

      As an addendum, when you log into a Corporate/Govt server you are hit with a header that goes something like ..

      The information on this computer is the sole ownership of blah blah. Use of this data is for legitimate <organization> use only

      I am paraphrasing there but you should get my drift. Therefore to mine the data and provide it to a 3rd party when you were supposed to be providing some other service is:

      a. More than likely a breach of contract
      b. Possibly illegal
      c. Highly unethical
      d. Incorrect use of Corporate time/assets

      In short, he abused his position for personal gain. I can’t comment on the legality of it, but it certainly should be a resume generating event at the very least.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3013

      Awesome Spartan. Will take a look

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1866

      Awesome Spartan. Will take a look

      Falls off seat, but in the spirit of detente, you’re welcome.

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 732

      Falls off seat, but in the spirit of detente, you’re welcome.

      Wait for it. Wait for it.

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 987

      Even if HRC and/or associates are found to have violated laws while accessing data, the MAGA headlines about framing are still BS.

    • TheChronicHotAir

      Participant
      Post count: 6959

      Even if HRC and/or associates are found to have violated laws while accessing data, the MAGA headlines about framing are still BS.

      ^^^^That made no sense.

      Even if A-Rod is found to have used steroids, there’s no way the headlines of him using steroids are true!!

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1866

      Even if HRC and/or associates are found to have violated laws while accessing data, the MAGA headlines about framing are still BS.

      Neustar provide DNS services. I assume they were contracted by both the Trump and the Whitehouse or whoever runs the Whitehouse IT Dept.

      My understanding is what they did is correlate whenever a Russian made smart phone was used in the general vicinity of the Whitehouse to whenever a dns lookup was done at the same time from inside the Whitehouse. i.e. used a computer to access the internet. This they claimed was proof that the Russians had access to/and/or was communicating with the Whitehouse. If I am correct, tenuous doesn’t even begin to describe the link so yea, it was fabricated. If for no other reason they had no idea who was using the phone and who was working in the Whitehouse at the time.

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 7567

      Even if HRC and/or associates are found to have violated laws while accessing data, the MAGA headlines about framing are still BS.

      Sure. And I expect you leftists to be equally as worried about “threats to the democracy” and such with this story. I’m certain I won’t be let down. After all…

      3+5=8 is good
      8-5=3 is bad

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 987

      Even if HRC and/or associates are found to have violated laws while accessing data, the MAGA headlines about framing are still BS.

      Sure. And I expect you leftists to be equally as worried about “threats to the democracy” and such with this story. I’m certain I won’t be let down. After all…

      3+5=8 is good
      8-5=3 is bad

      I’m not going to approve of or defend any illegal behavior by HRC or her associates if it is found to be true. I’m also not going to buy into the “bombshell” nonsense, overstatement, distortions, or propaganda coming out of the magabubble. I’ll wait until there is a finding of guilt… None of this crap will “exonerate” Rump of being ethically compromised with respect to Russia. There’s plenty on the record that has nothing to do with the data that has been alleged to have been accessed. But I don’t expect any of you to believe any of that, despite that it’s documented by the special counsel and the Senate. And I’m pretty tired of arguing about it. You guys believed everything that came out was a hoax because Frump said it was a hoax. That’s apparently not going to change. And you’ll use any potential misdeeds by HRC or her associates to support the delusional belief that Frump really isn’t corrupt AF.

      Frankly, I’m sick of political hackery, quackery, and dirty business from both sides. If HRC or associates are found guilty of crimes, I hope they face consequences.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8527

      Nobody is rooting for HRC… hate to break it to you.

      She’s a Warhawks, Republican-lite, full of shit “leftist”.

      Take her down for all I care…

      But that doesn’t mean there is a lick of truth to this stuff.

      I heard the same stuff with Hunter via NYP but as we all know, that turned out to be speculation.

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1866

      No matter what is proved or not proved, I think any suggestion that Hillary would run again in 2024 just went out of the window.

    • Blayton Cigsby

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      Post count: 3013

      Yeah who would want her? I hated Trump as the nominee because I thought she could beat him

    • Blayton Cigsby

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      Post count: 3013

      Yeah who would want her? I hated Trump as the nominee because I thought she could beat him

      Awesome Spartan. Will take a look

      Falls off seat, but in the spirit of detente, you’re welcome.

      Well at least you tried to respond so will have A look later.

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 987

      No matter what is proved or not proved, I think any suggestion that Hillary would run again in 2024 just went out of the window.

      I never heard it suggested anyway, not from our side at least.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3013

      Look, the director of the FBI correctly pointed out that many Americans lack basic media literacy meaning they don’t understand the difference ge between News and entertainment, they don’t understand the role of confirmation bias (deadly in an algorithm world) and they lack critical thinking skills.

      Not only is that obviously true, it’s on full display here daily with the Trumpers. Just look how active and heated several of them became with the BOGUS tweets from Trump and the framing on Fox. Almost Pavlovian

      And not a single one of them – other than Spartan – could even lift a finger to a key to show how, in their view, real news was fake. That’s because THE COCOON matters more than the truth. Fealty to the COCOON is a self-worth endeavor … because so many Trumpers here gave list so much total BS for years that to turn back now …. unthinkable.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3013

      Even if HRC and/or associates are found to have violated laws while accessing data, the MAGA headlines about framing are still BS.

      Neustar provide DNS services. I assume they were contracted by both the Trump and the Whitehouse or whoever runs the Whitehouse IT Dept.

      My understanding is what they did is correlate whenever a Russian made smart phone was used in the general vicinity of the Whitehouse to whenever a dns lookup was done at the same time from inside the Whitehouse. i.e. used a computer to access the internet. This they claimed was proof that the Russians had access to/and/or was communicating with the Whitehouse. If I am correct, tenuous doesn’t even begin to describe the link so yea, it was fabricated. If for no other reason they had no idea who was using the phone and who was working in the Whitehouse at the time.

      This isn’t quite right because they didn’t claim anything was proof. They turned it over



      @spartan
      just trying to streamline the convo so to your first post three questions:

      1. Do you agree with the characterization of Dns data being either “non- public” or even worse “proprietary?

      I ask because the combination of those words means the author was stretching. No one has a reasonable expectation that their dns traffic is proprietary lol, right?

      2. I don’t want to misrepresent your position so am I correct that you agree that if the collection of data was not “illegal” then the story almost dissolves?

      I ask that because Durham did not charge anyone and can’t now so legally speaking at least the claim hat Clinton started the FBI probe is even more dead than it’s been for about a year since the NYT reported in the “genesis” of the FBI investigation

      3. To #2, do you agree that the Russians started all of this with the DNC hack? In other words, that key fact matters because

      A) that hack later helps Trump and

      B) he even publicly asked the Russian s to help find Clinton’s emails. And

      C) tge FBI went to both campaigns about Russia. Trump turned down assistance

      My point being, that you could credit it too poor judgment by Trump, but not only did he do little or nothing to publicly and privately show there was no connection, he almost embraced it AT THE TIME (we now know Manafort was in fact working with Russians)

    • Kermit56

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      Post count: 732

      B) he even publicly asked the Russian s to help find Clinton’s emails.

      BWAHAHAHA!!

    • Blayton Cigsby

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      Post count: 3013

      B) he even publicly asked the Russian s to help find Clinton’s emails.

      BWAHAHAHA!!

      He did.

      I understand he claims it was a campaign laugh line but the point I was making was that publicly he did little to distance himself in MULTIPLE ways

      We NOW know there because there was no distance (Manafort/Stone) and they wanted the help (Trump/Manafort/Stone). So, it’s a little disingenuous to blame Clinton for an investigation that PRECEDED her and some might says it’s insane to maintain that now when the George P story has been out for a year and Durham never charged anyone for the “genesis” investigation.

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 7567

      B) he even publicly asked the Russian s to help find Clinton’s emails.

      BWAHAHAHA!!

      There’s nothing to do but laugh at the unhinged TDS’ers.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3013

      B) he even publicly asked the Russian s to help find Clinton’s emails.

      BWAHAHAHA!!

      There’s nothing to do but laugh at the unhinged TDS’ers.

      Imagine ADMITTING that in a thread that challenged you to put up or shut up

      Bwahaha Buggsy and Kermit .., THATS THE POINT YOU CLOWNS.

      you’re not only proving you’ve got nothing you’re putting a big exclamation point on it because you’re so insecure you can resist doing precisely what I just said all you conspiracy kooks do – you call other people dumb and sheep BECAUSE your mental gymnastics crumble like a house of cards

      You two should stick to trash talking a 70 year old’s deceased wife. We all know you can’t hack anything more

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3013

      Buggsy posts another non-responsive insult attempt in 3….2… 1

      Further cementing that the cocoon itself is more important than truth

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 732

      B) he even publicly asked the Russian s to help find Clinton’s emails.

      BWAHAHAHA!!

      There’s nothing to do but laugh at the unhinged TDS’ers.

      Imagine ADMITTING that in a thread that challenged you to put up or shut up

      Bwahaha Buggsy and Kermit .., THATS THE POINT YOU CLOWNS.

      you’re not only proving you’ve got nothing you’re putting a big exclamation point on it because you’re so insecure you can resist doing precisely what I just said all you conspiracy kooks do – you call other people dumb and sheep BECAUSE your mental gymnastics crumble like a house of cards

      You two should stick to trash talking a 70 year old’s deceased wife. We all know you can’t hack anything more

      Thanks for the chuckle, BC. Do you go to a chiropractor when you get all twisted in knots, or just read the novel The Conscience of a Liberal by Paul Wellstone?

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3013

      B) he even publicly asked the Russian s to help find Clinton’s emails.

      BWAHAHAHA!!

      There’s nothing to do but laugh at the unhinged TDS’ers.

      Imagine ADMITTING that in a thread that challenged you to put up or shut up

      Bwahaha Buggsy and Kermit .., THATS THE POINT YOU CLOWNS.

      you’re not only proving you’ve got nothing you’re putting a big exclamation point on it because you’re so insecure you can resist doing precisely what I just said all you conspiracy kooks do – you call other people dumb and sheep BECAUSE your mental gymnastics crumble like a house of cards

      You two should stick to trash talking a 70 year old’s deceased wife. We all know you can’t hack anything more

      Thanks for the chuckle, BC. Do you go to a chiropractor when you get all twisted in knots, or just read the novel The Conscience of a Liberal by Paul Wellstone?

      Just posted in the other thread thst you guys are comical because all you post is stuff like that when OBVIOUSLY you’d post a direct rebuttal if it existed.

      You don’t because it does not.

      You post your flaccid little insults (rather than just ignore) because the truth hurts

      I guess when it really hurts you tell a 70 year old …,

    • Blayton Cigsby

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      Post count: 3013

      AS A LITTKE MOTIVATION FOR YOU TRUMPERs….

      The argument I have made here, which will be proven true by this thread … is that Trumpers care more about the Cocoon than the actual truth. The truth here – as reported by WaPo – is that the story you’re all pushing AND THAT FAUX NEWS IS PUSHING….. is false

      So…

      Yep

      But at least you guys have Devin Nunes on your side!

      “ Devin Nunes joined Hannity last night. He said, they spied on a sitting presidential candidate & then the President of the US. They didn’t find anything & made stuff up, framing a sitting President. Also a Mueller Investig! That’s what happened, it’s really that simple he said.”

      How is that any different than @JBear?

      (In case you don’t know, you guys have all been repeating the words used by Kash Patel — former Nunes aid and Trump appointment into the DoD right before … the insurrection )

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1866

      1. Do you agree with the characterization of Dns data being either “non- public” or even worse “proprietary?

      I ask because the combination of those words means the author was stretching. No one has a reasonable expectation that their dns traffic is proprietary lol, right?

      It most certainly can be. For example software companies keep their source code on internal servers accessible via versioning software. This software is accessed via an internal website/app. When you access the app/website it will do a dns lookup on the website name and direct you to the correct IP address. You don’t want people knowing what those IP addresses are. There are other security measures in place, but you can’t even try and hack a server if you don’t know where it is.

      Just think of the internal location for Lockheed Martin where the design documents are for the F35. I recall reading an article a few years back about a subcontractor who was tasked with providing parts for a non essential (but useful) feature on the F35. Their company was hacked and lo and behold that feature is now on the Chinese J26 fighter.

      So finding out who and where to hack is the first part of the puzzle and is very often proprietary information.

      2. I don’t want to misrepresent your position so am I correct that you agree that if the collection of data was not “illegal” then the story almost dissolves?

      Not really, but I get your point. It’s parts of the sum. If it was a standalone issue, in a week or so maybe. But right now it’s all part of the picture of behavior by the Clinton camp and their supporters. I would point out that it is unethical and immoral but this is the Clintons we are talking about so that is a given, and I don’t think it would be wise to use those terms when attempting to defend Donald Trump.

      3. To #2, do you agree that the Russians started all of this with the DNC hack

      I know it has been claimed, but as far as I am aware no actual evidence has been provided that the DNC mail server was hacked. In fact there is evidence to point to the data was downloaded locally and then disseminated. See the following:

      http://www.thenation.com/article/archive/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/

      Not much really came out of the DNC hack to be honest so I would have to say no, that is not the origin of all this mess. The clinton email server was.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3013

      @Spartan

      Thanks. Can you explain one thing about the last question

      I think it’s beyond dispute that Wikileaks got the data from Russians so is the distinction you’re making that “hack” implies from some outside place where a local download is like someone at a computer? Like an inside job?

    • spartan

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      Post count: 1866

      I think it’s beyond dispute that Wikileaks got the data from Russians so is the distinction you’re making that “hack” implies from some outside place where a local download is like someone at a computer? Like an inside job?

      Yes. As it says in that article, (and I’ve read it elsewhere) the time it took to download the data is in the public domain. The local internet companies at the time of the hack were not capable of providing the bandwidth to download that amount of data in the time it took. That could only have been done locally to a thumb drive. Tests on how long it takes to download that amount of data to a thumb drive would appear to back up that claim.

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1866

      I think it’s beyond dispute that Wikileaks got the data from Russians so is the distinction you’re making that “hack” implies from some outside place where a local download is like someone at a computer? Like an inside job?

      Yes. As it says in that article, (and I’ve read it elsewhere) the time it took to download the data is in the public domain. The local internet companies at the time of the hack were not capable of providing the bandwidth to download that amount of data in the time it took. That could only have been done locally to a thumb drive. Tests on how long it takes to download that amount of data to a thumb drive would appear to back up that claim. In short, someone was in the building and connected to a computer.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3013

      I think it’s beyond dispute that Wikileaks got the data from Russians so is the distinction you’re making that “hack” implies from some outside place where a local download is like someone at a computer? Like an inside job?

      Yes. As it says in that article, (and I’ve read it elsewhere) the time it took to download the data is in the public domain. The local internet companies at the time of the hack were not capable of providing the bandwidth to download that amount of data in the time it took. That could only have been done locally to a thumb drive. Tests on how long it takes to download that amount of data to a thumb drive would appear to back up that claim. In short, someone was in the building and connected to a computer.

      Interesting. I didn’t know that part

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3013

      Haha. To the court

      “ Durham: “If 3rd parties or members of the media have overstated, understated, or otherwise misinterpreted facts contained in the Govt’s Motion, that does not in any way undermine the valid reasons for the Govt’s inclusion of this information.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3013

      When the COCOON (and Trump) force you back into court to say “I didn’t say that”

      “ Durham Distances Himself From Furor in Right-Wing Media Over Filing”

      The special counsel implicitly acknowledged that White House internet data he discussed, which conservative outlets have portrayed as proof of spying on the Trump White House, came from the Obama era.”

      😂

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 987

      It got awfully quiet.

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