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    • RogerGoodellSucks

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      Post count: 343

      Lots of people are saying WR, CB, OG, LB, etc. are all still needs, but I haven’t really seen anyone say a word about DE. Are people satisfied with Johnson and Clayborn? I think both are solid players, but neither one of them are an elite pass rusher and that’s what this team needs. They are very good against the run, but I think we need someone who can consistently get to the QB. I feel like if we don’t draft a DE in the 1st or 2nd round, we’re going to be in big trouble again with the pass rush this year.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 336

      Dude the off-season is just getting started lol, have a lot of FA left and the draft, not worried at all

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1335

      Can’t address it all in one of season. It’s Dom’s fault why we still suck at DE even after signing Johnson.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 493

      I feel better about them in this system.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2630

      Dude the off-season is just getting started lol, have a lot of FA left and the draft, not worried at all

      We don't have much cap space left so I doubt we're going to bring a guy like Allen or Peppers in so all that leaves is the draft. Most people I've seen think we're taking CB, WR, QB in the first 3 rounds so to me that sounds like they aren't too concerned about the pass rush.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 27

      We need pass rush from the DL, not just the LB’s. Lovie knows this, and I don’t think he’ll stop at just Johnson. Whether he goes free agent or the draft, who knows? But yea, I’m still concerned a little..

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 32

      clayborn, bowers, gholston and means are all on the roster .. and all in year 2+ with hopefully more effective coaching and scheme. i'm thinking we can roll into the season with what we have. gholston was coming on last year and if the coaches can get him motivated, he could be a good LE.the draft needs to be heavy offense. i'm comfortable with where the DL is. not elite, but should be serviceable. barring (haha) mack or clowney being there at 7 .. i think its offense in rd 1 and 2.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1507

      I have no clue how to judge our defensive line in a real system so hell, maybe AC94 or Bowers can rush the passer now that that’s what they’re actually asked to do

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 831

      Dude the off-season is just getting started lol, have a lot of FA left and the draft, not worried at all

      We don't have much cap space left so I doubt we're going to bring a guy like Allen or Peppers in so all that leaves is the draft. Most people I've seen think we're taking CB, WR, QB in the first 3 rounds so to me that sounds like they aren't too concerned about the pass rush.

      I think Licht and Smith are playing it smart. They've gotten what they've needed, now they will fill the remaining holes with the draft and high-value free agent signings. I think that they are waiting for either Allen or Peppers' asking price to fall real far, much like Dwight Freeney, Osi Umenyiora, and John Abraham's asking values did last FA period. I think if they sign one of those players on the cheap, we will really be in business.....And that's not all. As other posters have mentioned, a lot is going to happen between now and training camp and no one knows whats going to go down. For all you know we could trade for a player or even end up drafting a potentially dominiant edge rusher. There is a lot of potential in this draft with regards to the pass rush off the edge. Clowney, Barr, Mack, Ealy or even Ford all fit the molds of players who could become dominant sack artists in the NFL. Its best to keep calm and know that Lovie & Co. have got this ship under control.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2630

      Dude the off-season is just getting started lol, have a lot of FA left and the draft, not worried at all

      We don't have much cap space left so I doubt we're going to bring a guy like Allen or Peppers in so all that leaves is the draft. Most people I've seen think we're taking CB, WR, QB in the first 3 rounds so to me that sounds like they aren't too concerned about the pass rush.

      I think Licht and Smith are playing it smart. They've gotten what they've needed, now they will fill the remaining holes with the draft and high-value free agent signings. I think that they are waiting for either Allen or Peppers' asking price to fall real far, much like Dwight Freeney, Osi Umenyiora, and John Abraham's asking values did last FA period. I think if they sign one of those players on the cheap, we will really be in business.....

      Interesting take and could very well be possible. Would feel a lot better with a guy like Allen or Peppers here.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      Lots of people are saying WR, CB, OG, LB, etc. are all still needs, but I haven't really seen anyone say a word about DE. Are people satisfied with Johnson and Clayborn? I think both are solid players, but neither one of them are an elite pass rusher and that's what this team needs. They are very good against the run, but I think we need someone who can consistently get to the QB. I feel like if we don't draft a DE in the 1st or 2nd round, we're going to be in big trouble again with the pass rush this year.

      I am concerned about who our starting LDE will be. I see Clayborn as a fill in RDE for when MJ is off the field. I dont see him as a starting LDE. At RDE I am completely satisfied with MJ and Clay. MJ is going to be an elite RDE for us. If he would not have been franchised last year he would have commanded huge money. His sacks went down ladt year but it could be a lot to do with the scheme, as he also dropped back into coverage and played contain a lot. If Lovie just tells MJ to pin his ears back and bend that edge..........he is going to dominate IMO. It is a perfect scenario having David playing LB behind him allows him to go after the QB and forget about contain. David cleans up anything going outside behind him. Just like Rice and Brooks. You need both of those players to make it work. I'm not big on making guarantees but I would think if anyone is going to get double digit sacks this year, my money is on Michael Johnson.There is probably a prop bet somewhere for that. I must find.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 27

      the draft needs to be heavy offense. i’m comfortable with where the DL is. not elite, but should be serviceable..That was the trouble with last year, serviceable is not the answer. We need a pass rush. I mean, not all pass rushers, but one with about, oh.. say 10 or more sacks then we had last year from the DL.If we go free agent, then the draft can get us offense like you say. OL and WR would be a good fit..But that's just me..

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 493

      I think we should focus on drafting O-line. Maybe a 5th rd DT. I like what we have at DE.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 32

      the draft needs to be heavy offense. i'm comfortable with where the DL is. not elite, but should be serviceable..That was the trouble with last year, serviceable is not the answer. We need a pass rush. I mean, not all pass rushers, but one with about, oh.. say 10 or more sacks then we had last year from the DL.If we go free agent, then the draft can get us offense like you say. OL and WR would be a good fit..But that's just me..

      agree what you say is ideal. so as i said .. what bucs have now is not elite. but serviceable ... perhaps we just have a difference in our definitions of serviceable. i'd argue last year wasn't even serviceable. i think the top sacker might have been a DT last year. that ain't right. i doubt that happens this year. in many ways, i see more of a seattle DL now .. waves of bodies, with no single elite player. at least in tampa, there is a potential elite player in GM .. and with the new talent and maturation of last years young talent, and new scheme (i.e. not overusing stunts) ... i am optimistic that MJ gets to double digits again and one of bowers, clay, means and gholston gets to 7 or 8.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      im not concerned, but i wouldnt be surprised to add more passrush.  means might have a shot in a new defense…clayborn could easily bounce back…gholston could develop…so thats 4 right there.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Can’t have enough pass rushers. Look at Seattle. They stockpile them. That said, I think a rotation of Johnson, Clayborn, Gholston and hopefully, Bowers will get us the outside pressure we need. Wouldn't mind seeing them draft a guy and I think they will, but I am beginning to think that guys like Barr and Mack might be out. I'm thinking, after the signing of Johnson, Lovie wants guys that have experience in 4-3 defenses and might not have the time nor patience to try and convert a 3-4 outside backer into a "hand in the dirt" DE.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 61

      Even assuming MJ only gets 3.5, it’s still better than all the other lineman behind GM and AC combined. Same with the 5.5 from McDonald.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      I think we should focus on drafting O-line. Maybe a 5th rd DT. I like what we have at DE.

      But that means rolling with Gholston as the starting LDE? Or Clayborn? Or Bowers? I cant see that happening on a Lovie Smith coached team. I like Gholston's potential but IMO Lovie wont give him the job.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      I think we should focus on drafting O-line. Maybe a 5th rd DT. I like what we have at DE.

      But that means rolling with Gholston as the starting LDE? Or Clayborn? Or Bowers? I cant see that happening on a Lovie Smith coached team. I like Gholston's potential but IMO Lovie wont give him the job.

      of course he wont give him the job.  he will make him beat out a 1st and 2nd round pick.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2847

          Johnson being next to McCoy will vastly improve our rush. Often McCoy would could great penetration, but had NO teammates to help prevent the QB from eluding him. That 2nd guy penetrating is very often the guy getting the sack. We rarely had that 2nd man. Worth noting, although Johnson’s sacks were down last season, he had a slew of batted balls. And last, Joe Cullen, IMO, will get way more out of all these guys; he’s a madman… ;D

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 27

      the draft needs to be heavy offense. i'm comfortable with where the DL is. not elite, but should be serviceable..That was the trouble with last year, serviceable is not the answer. We need a pass rush. I mean, not all pass rushers, but one with about, oh.. say 10 or more sacks then we had last year from the DL.If we go free agent, then the draft can get us offense like you say. OL and WR would be a good fit..But that's just me..

      agree what you say is ideal. so as i said .. what bucs have now is not elite. but serviceable ... perhaps we just have a difference in our definitions of serviceable. i'd argue last year wasn't even serviceable. i think the top sacker might have been a DT last year. that ain't right. i doubt that happens this year. in many ways, i see more of a seattle DL now .. waves of bodies, with no single elite player. at least in tampa, there is a potential elite player in GM .. and with the new talent and maturation of last years young talent, and new scheme (i.e. not overusing stunts) ... i am optimistic that MJ gets to double digits again and one of bowers, clay, means and gholston gets to 7 or 8.

      Haha.. Not even serviceable. That's true.Last year people were saying "No-fly Zone", but I (well, not just I, but a lot of people) were saying we needed a pass rush before we needed an elite pass coverage team. I'm confident that Lovie learned a little in his time off. At least I hope so..I like Means, he's got that little "something" that I hope will unfold this year..

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      I think we should focus on drafting O-line. Maybe a 5th rd DT. I like what we have at DE.

      But that means rolling with Gholston as the starting LDE? Or Clayborn? Or Bowers? I cant see that happening on a Lovie Smith coached team. I like Gholston's potential but IMO Lovie wont give him the job.

      of course he wont give him the job.  he will make him beat out a 1st and 2nd round pick.

      No. You missed my point. I dont think the starter is amongst those 3. I dont think Lovie will be content with going into TC with Bowers and Gholston competing for the LDE job. Its just a hunch.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 138

      How could you not be? We haven’t had a pass rush in YEARS

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 32

      bucs have signed 2 OL, 2 DL and players at premium positions like QB and CB. add in a TE … and i think its fair to say the leadership believes in building trenches outward. whether they translate or not, time will tell. but i’m philosophically aligned with the approach.i too think means can develop. he was always going to be a bit of a project. i actually like gholston as well as RDE. spence should remain in the rotation for obvious run downs / goalline / etc. bowers is a wild card.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 120

      Competition at LDE:ClaybornBowersGholdtsonDraft ChoiceAll three have potential plus our draft pick

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 138

      Honestly it’s unbelievable that out of all these draft picks (Clayborn Bowers Gholston), and countless others before that we don’t have a clear cut NFL starter at LE. Unbelievable.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      No. You missed my point. I dont think the starter is amongst those 3. I dont think Lovie will be content with going into TC with Bowers and Gholston competing for the LDE job. Its just a hunch.

      gotcha, i agree to a point. i certainly expect more competition for the pass rush…but i dont expect a big name unless it comes very cheap

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 120

      Competition at LDE:ClaybornBowersGholdtsonDraft ChoiceAll three have potential plus our draft pick

      New Coaches, New scheme, New direction, Im fired up......Think the players will be too.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 138

      No. You missed my point. I dont think the starter is amongst those 3. I dont think Lovie will be content with going into TC with Bowers and Gholston competing for the LDE job. Its just a hunch.

      gotcha, i agree to a point. i certainly expect more competition for the pass rush...but i dont expect a big name unless it comes very cheap

      what big names are available?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 161

      Honestly I think Lovie got exactly what he wanted.m.johnson= riceMcCoy= sappDavid= brooksVernier = rondeBarron= lynch. Although it may not be the same, it seems that's what he was going for, now to fill in the Brian Kelly's and dexter Jackson I think we are on our way back

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      Honestly, the diligence they are showing in an attempt to upgrade the Oline is impressive.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 138

      Honestly, the diligence they are showing in an attempt to upgrade the Oline is impressive.

      x100000000000000000000000

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2594

      Lots of people are saying WR, CB, OG, LB, etc. are all still needs, but I haven't really seen anyone say a word about DE. Are people satisfied with Johnson and Clayborn? I think both are solid players, but neither one of them are an elite pass rusher and that's what this team needs. They are very good against the run, but I think we need someone who can consistently get to the QB. I feel like if we don't draft a DE in the 1st or 2nd round, we're going to be in big trouble again with the pass rush this year.

      I tend to agree with you about Johnson but I don't think they would have signed him to the contract they did without believing he could be that guy.  I think they are expecting Johnson to be an elite type rusher.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2026

      Sign back Teo-neshim he’s hungry to get his 10 sacks.He just didn’t like schiano last year so he played lazy….Lol just playing teo had to be the worst DE in the league last year. So glad I'll never see the #50 getting pancaked and pushed on his ass again all game. But I think gholston and bowers one of the two is going to have to step up an become that 3rd rotational DE for us or maybe start if Clayborn can't play LE. Eventhough I think he will be good going against RT's. We will draft a DE in the draft. I could see more of a project picked 4th or 5th round perhaps. Steven means has to have a fantastic camp I don't think he makes it. Maybe we will sign an under the radar guy like Corey Wooton also.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1455

      Did I honestly just read somebody calling Johnson this teams version of Rice?Do people really think so littler Rice?Johnson has 1 good year of 11.5 sacks, the other 4 he had just 15 in total, the guy is closer to being a 1 year wonder than our new Rice.Rice as a Card was almost averaging Johnsons career best.I'm not trying to take a dump on the general good feelings this free agency has created but come on, there's a limit where claims made become BS no matter how happy/hopeful you are.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2275

      DE will likely be addressed early and often in the draft. Plus the staff may think they can save Bowers and get Gholston developed more. Not too worried about it right now. Im worried about getting a Nickel CB because Leonard Johnson blows.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1271

      Johnson, Clayborn, and Gholston are all keepers. Gholston is the only one of that group you’d even try to line up inside, so if you are going to carry a 5th DE you probably want a guy who can play more inside if you ask him to. Bowers is on the bubble. Peppers would be great to add, but may be a little overkill. It would be great to be able to draft Kahlil Mack but he will most likely be gone. A name worth keeping an eye if we do trade down is Dee Ford. I'd rather give McCown one more legitimate weapon with our 1st round pick, but I could see Dee Ford being an option as well.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 642

      I think we may go big here simply because Gholston and Bowers have just not shown enough on tape that they can be dominant.  It’s factual that every guy cut or downgraded were highly investigated and sentenced by the Court of Bad Film. Line play has been the focal point in thus far.Don't expect L&L to bank on potential mediocrity at LDE. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2275

      I think we may go big here simply because Gholston and Bowers have just not shown enough on tape that they can be dominant.  It's factual that every guy cut or downgraded were highly investigated and sentenced by the Court of Bad Film. Line play has been the focal point in thus far.Don't expect L&L to bank on potential mediocrity at LDE.

      Gholston has some solid film for his first year. Bowers film sucks and he will be fighting for his job in TC. Rounds 2 and 3 should be where we address the DE position.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      With a simplified scheme Bowers will either get it this year or he never will. I have no hope in Means. Gholston has flashed but as a rotational guy. I think its the most blatant hole on defense right now.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      I thoroughly believe that Johnson will be a stud for us…the others..not so much. I feel we have a good DE and 3 other rotational DEs. Lovie specifically called out the OL, then we went into overhaul mode. He also specifically called out the pass rush and didn’t sound all that enthused with Clayborn”s production so far. I fully expect us to draft a DE/pass rush guy with one of our first 2 picks. I could definitely see him taking Barr or even Mack if he slips....I agree with the OP tho. What we have isn't enough. If we roll into 2014 with these 4-5 guys without adding a good prospect from a premium spot in the draft, then we are doing exactly what the last few regimes did with their pass rush...settling, and hoping that the switch magically turns on 2-3 seasons in for some of these guys. Lovie and Licht arent playing that game, I feel. Get better now, or GTFO.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      I swear I read somewhere that Clayborn will be begin TC as the starting LDE…Could be very good.  And don't let the erbs palsy thing let you think he can't play from that side effectively.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 257

      Im a believer in Gholston, so I dont think DE is a dire need. But the game is won in the trenches so Id always welcome talent. Id love to see Allen or Peppers take a cheep contract to play with familiar coaches in a warm city. I think we are more likely to take a DT than a DE in the draft though.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      I think Gholston will develop into a nice rotational guy also . Maybe Means can too.For now we are good . You can't have pro-bowlers at every position with dominant players backing them up also. Not even the Seahawks have that. Most likely we will add one more developmental guy in the draft and then just try to coach them all up.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 69

      Lots of people are saying WR, CB, OG, LB, etc. are all still needs, but I haven't really seen anyone say a word about DE. Are people satisfied with Johnson and Clayborn? I think both are solid players, but neither one of them are an elite pass rusher and that's what this team needs. They are very good against the run, but I think we need someone who can consistently get to the QB. I feel like if we don't draft a DE in the 1st or 2nd round, we're going to be in big trouble again with the pass rush this year.

      I’m more worried about the interior oline, but I could see us getting another DE to groom.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Im a believer in Gholston, so I dont think DE is a dire need. But the game is won in the trenches so Id always welcome talent. Id love to see Allen or Peppers take a cheep contract to play with familiar coaches in a warm city. I think we are more likely to take a DT than a DE in the draft though.

      Sounds reminiscent of last year when people like what they saw in future superstars like Aaron Morgan, and didn't want take any snaps away from DTN. Gholston could potentially develop into a decent rotational DE, but I honestly hope Lovie doesn't lean on mediocrity at this position as much as we have seen over the last decade. Sure, we cant have All-Pro players at every position,  but this is one position where you will need a rotation of 3 guys who are all at least "good", and I barely see two. Hopefully a 3rd is added in the first 2 rounds of the draft and ends up taking the 2nd most snaps out of the DEs by season's end.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1128

      Lots of people are saying WR, CB, OG, LB, etc. are all still needs, but I haven't really seen anyone say a word about DE. Are people satisfied with Johnson and Clayborn? I think both are solid players, but neither one of them are an elite pass rusher and that's what this team needs. They are very good against the run, but I think we need someone who can consistently get to the QB. I feel like if we don't draft a DE in the 1st or 2nd round, we're going to be in big trouble again with the pass rush this year.

      I tend to agree with you about Johnson but I don't think they would have signed him to the contract they did without believing he could be that guy.  I think they are expecting Johnson to be an elite type rusher.

      Exactly. If Lovie thinks he can be elite, so do I..

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 161

      I wasn’t saying Johnson is rice but just look at the big 5 we had and he went out and got who he thinks can fill those two spots we were missing in rice and ronde. Not sure if Johnson will be what rice was but I think Lovie. Thinks so. I am hopeful.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 181

      Hard to say because we don’t know how these guys will perform in the new system.  Johnson, Clayborn and Gholston could step into the role(s) of double digit sack guy or they could provide the modest production we’ve seen at the position since Simeon Rice left.  Bowers is probably on his last leg if he doesn’t produce.  I’m curious to see what these DE’s do.  This time, next year we will have a better answer.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1951

      Im a believer in Gholston, so I dont think DE is a dire need. But the game is won in the trenches so Id always welcome talent. Id love to see Allen or Peppers take a cheep contract to play with familiar coaches in a warm city. I think we are more likely to take a DT than a DE in the draft though.

      Sounds reminiscent of last year when people like what they saw in future superstars like Aaron Morgan, and didn't want take any snaps away from DTN. Gholston could potentially develop into a decent rotational DE, but I honestly hope Lovie doesn't lean on mediocrity at this position as much as we have seen over the last decade. Sure, we cant have All-Pro players at every position,  but this is one position where you will need a rotation of 3 guys who are all at least "good", and I barely see two. Hopefully a 3rd is added in the first 2 rounds of the draft and ends up taking the 2nd most snaps out of the DEs by season's end.

      People complain about getting too many people through FA, and then complain that they aren't doing enough.  There is only so much you can do at one time.  I think we are done for this year at DE unless we get someone late in the draft.  We'll assess what we have.  At some point you have to see if you can develop some guys.  I have a pretty good feeling Gholston is going to have a breakout year myself, and I think AC is being underrated by fans now. And you don't need an elite RDE to have a successful pass rush.  If you've got a dominant tackle, just having a couple of 7-8 sack guys outside and some decent rotational guys is enough to get the job done. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5438

      Im a believer in Gholston, so I dont think DE is a dire need. But the game is won in the trenches so Id always welcome talent. Id love to see Allen or Peppers take a cheep contract to play with familiar coaches in a warm city. I think we are more likely to take a DT than a DE in the draft though.

      Sounds reminiscent of last year when people like what they saw in future superstars like Aaron Morgan, and didn't want take any snaps away from DTN. Gholston could potentially develop into a decent rotational DE, but I honestly hope Lovie doesn't lean on mediocrity at this position as much as we have seen over the last decade. Sure, we cant have All-Pro players at every position,  but this is one position where you will need a rotation of 3 guys who are all at least "good", and I barely see two. Hopefully a 3rd is added in the first 2 rounds of the draft and ends up taking the 2nd most snaps out of the DEs by season's end.

      People complain about getting too many people through FA, and then complain that they aren't doing enough.  There is only so much you can do at one time.  I think we are done for this year at DE unless we get someone late in the draft.  We'll assess what we have.  At some point you have to see if you can develop some guys.  I have a pretty good feeling Gholston is going to have a breakout year myself, and I think AC is being underrated by fans now. And you don't need an elite RDE to have a successful pass rush.  If you've got a dominant tackle, just having a couple of 7-8 sack guys outside and some decent rotational guys is enough to get the job done. 

      The "complain" stuff hardly applies to anything I said here or have said regarding the current offseason moves. I love what they've done...so im just gonna assume that applies to others who are actually complaining. As for needing an elite pass rusher...no thats not needed...but we do need consistency from our top 3 guys in the rotation. I view Clayborn as a 3rd DE in a rotation. I doubt that we currently have that number 2 on the roster to make this a championship level defense. Will Gholston have a breakout year? Doubt it...but ya never know. I do know that if the BPA is a pass rusher in the first 3 rounds that its highly unlikely that they pass on him. Our pass rush rotation still is not good enough to make us a contender. If it doesn't get addressed this offseason, then it will the next. I agree that not every problem can be fixed in one offseason....doesn't mean the deficiency isnt worth mentioning.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4755

      Who is the best LDE prospect in the draft? Aaron Donald? Im not really digging the vision of Mack or Barr fitting this role at all. Both are 3-4 jokers if you ask me......no way they can physically stand up to the beating a 4-3 LDE will take. IMO.......both have issues with getting tied up with OL and being unable to disengage.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1571

      Who is the best LDE prospect in the draft? Aaron Donald? Im not really digging the vision of Mack or Barr fitting this role at all. Both are 3-4 jokers if you ask me......no way they can physically stand up to the beating a 4-3 LDE will take. IMO.......both have issues with getting tied up with OL and being unable to disengage.

      I agree with this.  I will also add that if you do move either one to DE they would have the most success on the right side.  We just paid big cheddar to a guy to fill that role.  If I'm looking for a passrusher for us in the first it would be Clowney then Donald.

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    • Anonymous

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      I see Barr fitting in a 4-3 @ DE more than I do Mack.

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    • Anonymous

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      Goldson Ages / Sammich            +1I like both players(Barr/Mack) too and I wouldn't be upset if we drafted them, but that is a big concern I have with them. (Taking the beating a lineman takes over 16 games) I don't know if Donald fits the bill as an end, but quite a few people are high on him after some great workouts. I may call him a Jabroni, but if he's our guy, he's our guy.

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    • Anonymous

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      I find it hard to believe we draft Mack-barr after Johnson’s contract.  Are they gonna play LE?

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    • Anonymous

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      I find it hard to believe we draft Mack-barr after Johnson's contract.  Are they gonna play LE?

      I always think of my LE as a bruiser and I just don't see either projecting to that.

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    • Anonymous

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      Goldson Ages / Sammich            +1I like both players(Barr/Mack) too and I wouldn't be upset if we drafted them, but that is a big concern I have with them. (Taking the beating a lineman takes over 16 games) I don't know if Donald fits the bill as an end, but quite a few people are high on him after some great workouts. I may call him a Jabroni, but if he's our guy, he's our guy.

      The thing is, JDub watched video, saw him dominate at LDE and said we should draft him as a LDE. Then all the JDub trolls looked and saw he was a DT prospect, didnt watch any film of him and then started trolling JDub saying he cant be a LDE........even though he has showed it on film. Donald is very versatile. He is a Michael Bennett type versatile DL with higher upside.

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    • Anonymous

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      DO not want Barr. Mack as a DE worries me. I see Patrick Chukwura if he is asked to be a DE. Love Aaron Donald. But asking him to play DE would be a bad idea, IMO. He is a beast as a DT.  We already have one of those. Now don't get me wrong here, I would be pleasantly surprised if he were picked. But I wouldn't want him to play as a DE. Lots of question marks regarding that. But who knows?  If it worked, Goldsonages would have a reason to keep posting.

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    • Anonymous

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      in the heyday the bucs had some average talents filling out the line. spires, booger, chidi, even culpepper. bucs don't need 4 elite players. as someone said, they need consistency and players playing to their strengths so the unit comes together as a whole. I think gholston can develop into a LE. he showed flashes as a rookie late. I won't assume it happens overnight but I think there is now a solid cast and it's up to the coaches to coach and scheme properly. and of course players staying healthy.

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    • Anonymous

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      I really don’t get all this ac hate – I think there’s no doubt he’ll be the starting LDE – why wouldn’t he be??

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    • Anonymous

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      I really don't get all this ac hate - I think there's no doubt he'll be the starting LDE - why wouldn't he be??

      steve white has written that he doesnt believe clayborn is effective at what a LDE is asked to do much of the time.

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    • Anonymous

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      He clearly wasn’t effective at what a rde is asked to do either…

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    • Anonymous

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      As for Barr and Mack : They could play SAM on 1st and 2nd , which gives you a nasty blitz option also , and on 3rd they can rotate to LE , and sometimes RE when Johnson needs a breather.

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    • Anonymous

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      I think a 4 man DE rotation is best with MJ (majority of snaps)  and Clay on RDE and someone to take the majority while Gholston fills in on LDE. I dont know if Bowers and Gholston can hold down the left side. Im not counting on anything from Bowers. As far as Clay I just dont see him working out on the left side.

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    • Anonymous

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      Im a believer in Gholston, so I dont think DE is a dire need. But the game is won in the trenches so Id always welcome talent. Id love to see Allen or Peppers take a cheep contract to play with familiar coaches in a warm city. I think we are more likely to take a DT than a DE in the draft though.

      Sounds reminiscent of last year when people like what they saw in future superstars like Aaron Morgan, and didn't want take any snaps away from DTN. Gholston could potentially develop into a decent rotational DE, but I honestly hope Lovie doesn't lean on mediocrity at this position as much as we have seen over the last decade. Sure, we cant have All-Pro players at every position,  but this is one position where you will need a rotation of 3 guys who are all at least "good", and I barely see two. Hopefully a 3rd is added in the first 2 rounds of the draft and ends up taking the 2nd most snaps out of the DEs by season's end.

      People complain about getting too many people through FA, and then complain that they aren't doing enough.  There is only so much you can do at one time.  I think we are done for this year at DE unless we get someone late in the draft.  We'll assess what we have.  At some point you have to see if you can develop some guys.  I have a pretty good feeling Gholston is going to have a breakout year myself, and I think AC is being underrated by fans now. And you don't need an elite RDE to have a successful pass rush.  If you've got a dominant tackle, just having a couple of 7-8 sack guys outside and some decent rotational guys is enough to get the job done.

      I agree with Doc here.

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    • Anonymous

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      Not sayin its gonna happen, but imagine of Lovie and Cullen can get Bowers back to what we thought he was.Guys was a freak in college. The only thing that made him drop to us in R2 was the knee. His knee isnt what is keeping him from playing well at this point. If Lovie and Cullen can coach him up to his potential, we could be in for a MONSTER DL this year.

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    • Anonymous

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      Bowers remains a wild card but that is the hit on 19 type scenario at this point. There is nothing wrong with AC if he can play at LDE (the Palsy being the question there) because frankly that is what he is. He was misplaced being a RDE and misplaced at the lead dog when he is clearly a complimentary player. I’m not sure how much the staff will like Gholston who was more a power player than a  speed player.

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    • Anonymous

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      Bowers remains a wild card but that is the hit on 19 type scenario at this point. There is nothing wrong with AC if he can play at LDE (the Palsy being the question there) because frankly that is what he is. He was misplaced being a RDE and misplaced at the lead dog when he is clearly a complimentary player. I'm not sure how much the staff will like Gholston who was more a power player than a  speed player.

      I'm really hoping the staff will like gholston and that he blossoms. let's also remember that some of these players take some time. even Bennett took some time and got bumped around the league before he fully developed. between gholston, means and bowers I think there is enough talent and bodies to develop a nice rotation for the next few years.

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    • Anonymous

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      To the OP, no I’m not. I think Michael Johnson is an excellent addition and he will definitely change the fortunes of the defensive line. I’m eager to see if Bowers can be salvaged by Lovie and his staff. If they can get anything out of this kid, he could provide us something unheard of in Tampa Bay – depth. AC is still around and has shown he can get to the QB and I’m also excited to see what we do with Gholston.Remember the old addage of Tampa Two, "Stop the run on the way to quarterback". As long as the d-line can learn to maintain their gap integrity - all of these players, including McCoy could put up career numbers in Tampa Two. No more of this crazy ridiculous stunting and having Adrian Clayborn cover a speedy wide receiver. Stay in your gaps and go get the friggin QB.

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    • Anonymous

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      Lovie already said Clayborn is going to the left.

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    • Anonymous

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      Clay hasn’t had a chance to play in a NFL scheme. Coaches that know what they are doing will help this D-Line out a lot. Didn’t clayborn lead the Bucs in sacks outside of McCoy? Big year coming guys the light will come on.

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