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    • FireLicht2020

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      And if you don’t agree, please explain

    • spartan

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      And if you don’t agree, please explain

      Why are they coming here if we are the root cause of their misery at home?

      • FireLicht2020

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        Post count: 7582

        Because it is past tense. What we DID to them (which is well documented and I’m happy to post if you’re interested)… and current conditions are a bi-product of that

    • Kermit56

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      She doesn’t want us to police the world, but she does want us to accept the world into our borders?

    • FireLicht2020

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      You’re missing the point. We’ve help set the conditions for those counties and installed puppet dictators, drug wars, etc etc and now people want to leave something we helped create.

      Nobody wants an open border, Kermit.

      We want people to follow the rules but some of these people have nowhere else to go – thus asylum seeking.

      The woman who cuts my hair is Vietnamese and she escaped Vietnam shortly after the war. Her brother fled… if you were caught they killed you.

      He was an asylum seeker fleeing communism.

      Then his brought his whole family over by way of sponsorship. She described it to me in great detail and one point that stood out was that money talks.

      If you want to sponsor someone you need to prove that you can afford them as a dependent.

      So… the system is broken. It is pay to play. If you can’t pay, well guess what you do?

      You sneak in illegally.

      Just one example and I’m sure there are countless layers to it

      • Kermit56

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        Post count: 431

        Most countries won’t let you become a citizen just because you want to become a citizen. You need to prove you can be an asset to its society. After my enlistment in the US Navy was up I thought about becoming a citizen in Australia. I had to prove I could get a job was one of the hurdles I had to overcome. I didn’t have any contacts in Australia so proving I could get a job was not possible. Looking back, I’m glad I was denied (too many poisonous fauna and flora) and, as posted by you earlier, there’s no better nation than the USA.

    • Biggs3535

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      Post count: 6913

      Nobody wants an open border

      There are literally entire groups of people that want open borders. Hell, there’s a faction of Libertarians that support it. And there sure as hell are groups on the Left that do.

      We want people to follow the rules but some of these people have nowhere else to go – thus asylum seeking.

      There are dozens upon dozens of other countries on this planet to go to. Why would anybody want to come to this shitty, systemically racist country with no healthcare?

    • FireLicht2020

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      America, despite all its flaws, is still the greatest country in the world.

      Trying to improve it doesn’t make it any less great.

    • Coffeeisland

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      Post count: 831

      Good post Fire

      What you are describing is what people on the right have been saying. That is how the narrative should be framed.

      BUT

      Every single time the right echoes those beliefs, it is taken out of context and devolves into an argument over racism. Why? The problems we face is the decades long ebb and flow of chaos at the border. There is absolutely no way of knowing who all is coming over. The constant rhythm of “yeah we know what he said but what he really means is….racism” does nothing but divide the nation right down party lines. We had this discussion and I was immediately met with ridicule for daring to say there is a violent criminal element among the crossers.

      There are some violent criminals that cross the border. There are some legitimate asylum seekers crossing the border. There are some crossers
      simply looking for a better life. All of that is true at the same time.

      The media doesn’t report what is said through an honest filter. That kid and the Native American is one example. CNN ABSOLUTELY KNEW they were reporting BS and ran with it. Why? Too many other examples of this type of twisting, they are all over the web.

      It is my belief, and that of many others, that step one must be to begin the process of taking control of who crosses. Why is that not logical and/or part of the narrative? That process will be messy…just like pulling out of a war zone…but has to be step one. In the long term the more we gain that control, the better chance the true asylum seekers will find a spot up front, no? What if we had started that process 10, 20, 30 years ago? What if the National debate went there instead of automatic-knee jerk reaction of racism?

      Is there something else you think we should focus on first? How would we take a bite out of the pay for play system? The “scoundrels” always worm their way into the system. Steps to control the flow would certainly disrupt their system for a period of time though. Being prepared for the counter moves of the coyotes/money grabbers would be step 1A from my point of view. Obviously a difficult task that should be significantly aided by controlling the flow.

      You can go online and I’m sure you would find some freaks that do fit the characterization given to all conservatives/republicans. But that is a small minority and we all know that.

      Again, your scenario is exactly the sentiment on the right. Talk to conservatives, you may be surprised.

    • Biggs3535

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      Post count: 6913

      America, despite all its flaws, is still the greatest country in the world.

      Trying to improve it doesn’t make it any less great.

      While we disagree on what those improvements are, that’s a refreshing take.

      And the situation you described above is a great description of an asylum-seeker, that’s not what we’re seeing at Biden’s border crisis. Simply wanting to move to a better country doesn’t qualify as asylum. The process is being bastardized, and could keep out legitimate asylum-seekers.

    • TheChronicHotAir

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      Post count: 6203

      America, despite all its flaws, is still the greatest country in the world.

      Trying to improve it doesn’t make it any less great.

      LoserftgBiden and the obamashithole Squad are trying to change that.

    • FireLicht2020

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      Post count: 7582

      I think what makes this country the greatest country in the world is our diversity and diversity of thought.

      People want to come here for a reason. Sometimes that is escaping tyranny. Sometimes it is for opportunity.

      And I welcome them because this country is built on immigration.

      We wouldn’t be the greatest country in the world if not for those immigrants that do everything from big tech innovation to farm work.

    • Biggs3535

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      Post count: 6913

      I think what makes this country the greatest country in the world is our diversity and diversity of thought.

      People want to come here for a reason. Sometimes that is escaping tyranny. Sometimes it is for opportunity.

      And I welcome them because this country is built on immigration.

      We wouldn’t be the greatest country in the world if not for those immigrants that do everything from big tech innovation to farm work.

      I don’t disagree with any of this. However, we have to acknowledge there are shades of gray here, yes?

      Do you agree those looking for asylum is different than those simply looking to immigrate?

      Do you agree that legal immigration is different than illegal immigration?

    • spartan

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      Post count: 1575

      If America is better than where I live is an acceptable immigration criteria, it is arguable that includes every country and thus every person in the world. It is obvious that the US cannot permit every person on the planet to come and live here so you need to set limits so it can be managed and controlled. If you don’t then everyone literally tries to come here, as is what we are seeing now and it results is chaos.

      What’s going to happen when all those folks can’t get jobs? Did you see what happened when they simply trying to buy bus tickets to the border. It was almost a riot. Think what is going to be like when they have no money to put food on the table and the are living in abject poverty?

      Immigration needs to be controlled just as much for the benefit of those coming here as it is for those already living here.

    • FireLicht2020

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      Post count: 7582

      Like anything in life, there are people that ruin anything for those doing it for the right reasons.

      Immigration needs bi-partisan oversight and reform. We all agree there…

      We need to treat people with dignity at the border but also find healthy deterents…

      To my original point, we helped create this mess SPECIFIC to central and south America and I personally feel an obligation to help people legitimately fleeing because of the environment we helped create.

      And of course some take full advantage of this so we have to regulate it… just like the stock market, or health care, or taxes or whatever….some abuse so the rest of us get slapped with red tape etc

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