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    • BucMyLife

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      Post count: 32

      How were they assembled? High draft picks? Free Agency? Trades?What made them the top OL? Talent? Coaching? Scheme? Health? Experience? Youth?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 232

      5 OLs averaged more than 4.7 yards per rush attempt. Philadelphia - 500 att/ 2566 yards/ 5.1 avg/ 19 TDsMinnesota - 423 att/ 2081 yards/ 4.9 avg/ 23 TDsWashington - 453 att/ 2164 yards/ 4.8 avg/ 14 TDsGreen Bay - 459 att/ 2136 yards/ 4.7 avg/ 17 TDs


      > Picked up their Center in FA
      Kansas City - 442 att/ 2056 yards/ 4.7 avg/ 17 TDsOakland (4.6), Chicago (4.5), Dallas (4.5), New England (4.4), Jets (4.4) and San Fran (4.4) round out the next 6 top teams with the highest per rush average. Tampa - 420 att/ 1612 yards/ 3.8 avg/ 6 TDs. Ouch.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 232

      5 OLs gave up less than 2 sacks per game.Denver - 675 pass attempts/ 20 sacks..... Sack surrendered on 2.9% of all pass attemptsDetroit - 634 pass attempts/ 23 sacks..... 3.6%Cincinnati - 587 pass attempts/ 29 sacks..... 4.9%


      > Picked up their Left Tackle in FA
      Chicago - 579 pass attempts/ 30 sacks..... 5.2%


      > Picked up McCown, who took 11 sacks of those sacks (224/11) 4.9%
      San Diego - 544 pass attempts/ 30 sacks..... 5.5%Indianapolis (582/32) 5.5%, Dallas (586/35) 6.0%, St. Louis (506/36) 7.1%, Tennessee (533/37) 6.9%, and New Orleans (651/37) 5.7% are the next 5 teams that gave up the least amount of sacks last year.Tampa - 514 pass attempts/ 47 sacks..... 9.1%

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 232

      Top 10 Offenses yards per game:1. Denver - 457.3 ..... 13-3 in the regular season2. Philadelphia - 417.3 ..... 10-63. Green Bay - 400.3 ..... 8-7-14. New Orleans - 399.4 ..... 11-55. San Diego - 393.3 ..... 9-7 (Rookie WR played a huge role in their offense)6. Detroit - 392.1 ..... 7-97. New England - 384.5 ..... 12-48. Chicago - 381.8 ..... 8-89. Washington - 369.7 ..... 3-1310. Cincinnati - 368.2 ..... 11-532. Tampa 277.0 ..... 4-12

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      Dallas in the top ten in rush and pass.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 894

      Bucmylife. WOW those stats are really revealing. It gives perspective to just how bad the offense was and how far we need to go. L&L did the right thing disassembling the Oline and bringing in some weapons and Tedford. Can we get any lower than 32? Hopefully we can get to something like #15 this year and top 10 the next year.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 232

      Just from these simple stats, my top 5 (in no particular order):Denver - Superior pass pro, average yards per rush. Manning and his quick decision making probably had something to do with low sack numbers2013 startersLT Clady - 1st rounder/Clark - UFA LG Beadles - 2nd rounderC Ramirez - 4th rounder, FA from DetroitRG Vasquez - 3rd rounder, FA from SDRT Franklin - 2nd rounder Philadelphia - Superior yards per rush, below average pass pro. Quick paced offense may have been a small part of wearing down teams in the run game.2013 startersLT Peters - UFA, Trade from BuffaloLG Mathis - 3rd rounder, FA from CARC Kelce 6th rounderRG Herremans - 4th rounder RT Johnson - 1st rounder Green Bay - Highly effective rushing average, below average pass pro. Rookie RB may have affected both (blitz pick up/recognition and fesh talented legs)?2013 startersLT Bakhtiari - 4th rounderLG Sitton - 4th rounderC Dietrich-Smith - UFARG Lang - 4th rounderRT Bulaga - 1st rounderDetroit - very effective pass pro, middle of the road average per rush. 2013 startersLT Reiff - 1st rounderLG Sims - 4th rounder, TRADE from SEAC Raiola - 2nd rounderRG Warford - 3rd rounderRT Waddle - UFANew England - well rounded and above average in both pass pro and rushing. 2013 startersLT Solder - 1st rounderLG Makins - 1st rounder C Wendell - UFARG Conolly - UFART Vollmer - 2nd rounder/ Cannon - 5th rounderTampa - just poor all around. LOL2013 startersLT Penn UFALG Meredith - 5th rounder, FA GBC Zuttah - 3rd rounderRG Joseph - 1st rounderRT Dotson - UFA

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 232

      Just a quick assessment to get the ball rolling, fellas. I’m not dead set on these as my top 5. Suprised that Seattle or San Fran werent higher in these simple metrics. I see Dallas should be considered, too. Thanks melon. Please let me know if I made mistakes on the 2013 starters or how they were acquired. Thanks!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      Looks good BucMyLife, thanks for putting that together.  I think having an elite QB will probably skew the stats a little since they are amazing at changing protections at the line after reading the defense. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      Here are some other rankingshttps://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/4/

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Here’s one I look at as well – Football Outsiders “Adjusted Line Yards” and “Adjusted Sack Rate”:Adjusted Line Yards - 1. NE2. KC3. SD4. Dallas5. GB27. TBAdjusted Sack Rate:1. Denver2. Detroit3. Cincy4. NO5. Chicago21. TB

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      Denver Cincinatti and philly were all very good. SF is very good too.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Here are some other rankingshttps://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/4/

      The thing about those rankings that you have to consider is that you can have pretty big variation across the OL and yet cumulatively be good or bad. I like that they have a penalty ranking in there though.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Denver Cincinatti and philly were all very good. SF is very good too.

      If I'm just eye-balling it, SF would be my guess as the best OL. I feel like they pass block well enough, and can run when they want to. Denver is good, but Manning such a critical component to it. Will be better when Clady returns.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Of course that’s the problem with eye-balling it based on a small sample of games – numbers suggest I’m dead wrong about SF’s run-blocking last year.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      If you pour over enough OL data you will find little correlation between a good OL and wins.  Do you want a crappy OL then?  Of course not but what it means is simple. If your defense is average to below average, it doesn’t much matter what your OL looks like, your team is going to suck!!!  Conversely, if your OL is not great and your D is one of the best in the league, you will still win a ton of games.  weird.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2594

      Denver’s OL was all Manning after Clady went down.  I think on most teams it would have been a disaster.  Philly has a lot of talent on their line but they played a lot of snaps in odd OL formations, often with essentially 6 OL lined up

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      How does the makeup of our 'new' oline compare?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      How does the makeup of our 'new' oline compare?

      Demar Dotson is the only homegrown projected starter, so we don't compare very much to most of the other teams that drafted their linemen.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      How does the makeup of our 'new' oline compare?

      Demar Dotson is the only homegrown projected starter, so we don't compare very much to most of the other teams that drafted their linemen.

      Honestly, even with a "healthy" Nix, we will be worse at OL this year than last barring some huge change between now and the fall.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      How does the makeup of our 'new' oline compare?

      Demar Dotson is the only homegrown projected starter, so we don't compare very much to most of the other teams that drafted their linemen.

      Honestly, even with a "healthy" Nix, we will be worse at OL this year than last barring some huge change between now and the fall.

      I think we'll have two main differences: 1.) Collins should be able to play at relatively the same level all year, so we won't have to deal with Penn falling apart like he does the end of every season. 2.) I think we're going to be more of a "finesse" running team and run in more opportunistic situations out of passing formations with more athletic linemen. We'll no longer be lining up in completely predictable situations and formations and "dare" teams to stop us behind Davin Joseph.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      How does the makeup of our 'new' oline compare?

      Demar Dotson is the only homegrown projected starter, so we don't compare very much to most of the other teams that drafted their linemen.

      Honestly, even with a "healthy" Nix, we will be worse at OL this year than last barring some huge change between now and the fall.

      C'mon. I want to see this argument laid out, because it's fairly nonsensical. You're saying that..DotsonMeredithEvans DSNicks (healthy)Collinsis better on paper thanDotsonJosephZuttahMeredith/Larsen/Carimi/unhealthy Nicks (in order of games started)PennHow do you figure? And that's before we get to issues of offensive design (quicker throws in this one) and the fact that we've got two QBs with experience versus a rookie starting. And as we've seen with Denver, QBs matter.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      2.) I think we're going to be more of a "finesse" running team and run in more opportunistic situations out of passing formations with more athletic linemen. We'll no longer be lining up in completely predictable situations and formations and "dare" teams to stop us behind Davin Joseph.

      I think this part is huge.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3027

      Nothing and everything means something and nothing. You can’t separate what makes each team the best. Some teams run well because of a good scheme, some run well because of a good line, some run well because Adrian Peterson is the one carrying the ball, some run well because everyone is afraid of Aaron Rogers throwing it, some run well because the QB adds another 75 yards a game on the ground, some run well because they pass a lot and the run is somewhat of a surprise, some run well because opposing defenses are terrible at stopping the run, some run well because they haven’t had several holding calls flagged on big runs.Don't worry about it. Draft the best players you can, sign the best FA you can and have a coach who is smart enough to use what he has to the best of it's ability.  All these stats are stupid and you can look at every team and they pass the eye test. Stats are used for people who have different eyes to argue. I do it myself quite often, doesn't really matter though. The stats don't change my opinion, I'm just trying to change yours based on them.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3027

      2.) I think we're going to be more of a "finesse" running team and run in more opportunistic situations out of passing formations with more athletic linemen. We'll no longer be lining up in completely predictable situations and formations and "dare" teams to stop us behind Davin Joseph.

      I think this part is huge.

      Supposedly Tedfords running scheme is to spread the field horizontally. That's why we got rid of certain lineman and drafted others. Those guys need to be able to pull, lead and reach well on zone blocking plays.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      How does the makeup of our 'new' oline compare?

      Demar Dotson is the only homegrown projected starter, so we don't compare very much to most of the other teams that drafted their linemen.

      Honestly, even with a "healthy" Nix, we will be worse at OL this year than last barring some huge change between now and the fall.

      Scheme, QB, Long time NFL Oline coach and more efficient players already in place...    a "huge change" has already happened even prior to taking a snap

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      If you pour over enough OL data you will find little correlation between a good OL and wins.  Do you want a crappy OL then?  Of course not but what it means is simple. If your defense is average to below average, it doesn't much matter what your OL looks like, your team is going to suck!!!  Conversely, if your OL is not great and your D is one of the best in the league, you will still win a ton of games.  weird.

      I'm not sure what this even means. Where's the data on offensive lines that you have attempted to correlate to wins? As we've already discussed in this, there are a variety of ways to measure OL performance, all of which is fairly subjective. I think you could have made the same thing about the DL, LB, and DBs as well. Are those units correlated to wins? Prove it.The only SB winning team I can remember with a poor OL were the Tomlin Steelers team (Pittsburgh was rough in both the run game and the pass game). Before you say Seattle, I'd point out that the run-blocking was good (9th in adj. line yards, FO) and the sack % percentage (league worst) was mitigated in large part by the fact that Seattle was the 31st ranked team in the NFL in terms of pass attempts. I can think of several multi-SB teams that were built around great OLs though - Washington Redskins (go back and watch the 1991 team and imagine that offense without the Hogs - Rypien was barely touched that season. Sacked just 7 times for an incredible sack rate of 1.6%). The Dallas Cowboys' dynasty featured great OLs.  The Pats regularly have strong OLs, and the 16-0 NE team had the best run OL and 4th best adj. sack % in the NFL. If your point is that you need to have team balance, well no duh.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      If you pour over enough OL data you will find little correlation between a good OL and wins.  Do you want a crappy OL then?  Of course not but what it means is simple. If your defense is average to below average, it doesn't much matter what your OL looks like, your team is going to suck!!!  Conversely, if your OL is not great and your D is one of the best in the league, you will still win a ton of games.  weird.

      I'm not sure what this even means. Where's the data on offensive lines that you have attempted to correlate to wins? As we've already discussed in this, there are a variety of ways to measure OL performance, all of which is fairly subjective. I think you could have made the same thing about the DL, LB, and DBs as well. Are those units correlated to wins? Prove it.The only SB winning team I can remember with a poor OL were the Tomlin Steelers team (Pittsburgh was rough in both the run game and the pass game). Before you say Seattle, I'd point out that the run-blocking was good (9th in adj. line yards, FO) and the sack % percentage (league worst) was mitigated in large part by the fact that Seattle was the 31st ranked team in the NFL in terms of pass attempts. I can think of several multi-SB teams that were built around great OLs though - Washington Redskins (go back and watch the 1991 team and imagine that offense without the Hogs - Rypien was barely touched that season. Sacked just 7 times for an incredible sack rate of 1.6%). The Dallas Cowboys' dynasty featured great OLs.  The Pats regularly have strong OLs, and the 16-0 NE team had the best run OL and 4th best adj. sack % in the NFL. If your point is that you need to have team balance, well no duh.

      Additionally, 1.) The only time defense makes a big difference in winning is when you're really, really, really good at it. The top 5 teams in total defense all made the playoffs but the next 13 teams did not. The worst team in the NFL last year had the #7 total defense. 2.) You can clearly be a good team with a bad defense, as Chicago ranked #30, Philadelphia #29, New England #26, Green Bay #25, Kansas City #24, and San Diego #23.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 178

      I think we will have an average OL at best this year. New parts that have to gel and weakness at OG will hold us back. But with TREES at WR and a good screen game for Ds to worry about, the box will not be loaded as much and I think both Martin and Sims will find some running room. Throw  our speed backs breaking a long run or two and our  running stats may be in the top third. L&L have tried to put together a balanced team and I think that will be reflected in improved stats a crossed the board.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      I’ll make a prediction.  Our OL stats will improve due to our OC and our new offensive pieces.  We sold out for offense in this draft and that coupled with our new head coach will have us on the right side of .500.  It’s an owners and coaches league and coaching more than any stat line is what determines success.

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