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    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3674

      The Republicans say its time to heal. Wait a minute. That’s easy for them to say. They say Pelosi should just get over it. Wait a minute. It was Pelosi’s office who was ransacked. The Democrats were the ones the zip ties were meant for, along with Pence. Bilerakis wasn’t even there as he was on Covid restriction.

      Apparently the “tough on crime” Republicans forgot the steps so here they are. 1) Stop the crime. 2) Find the criminals and stop them from committing more crimes. 3) Bring the criminals to justice. 4) Heal. What happened to steps 1, 2 and 3? The perpetrator hasn’t been brought to justice, and in fact he hasn’t even received as much as a disapproving glance from our Representative. The perpetrator is still on the loose and setting up shop right here in Florida, and has shown no indication that he is anywhere near done causing trouble.

      This is like the cheating boyfriend wanting to make up with his girl, so he says “Lets heal our relationship, but by the way I’m not sorry and in fact I’m still cheating on you. But lets make up.” Republicans, here’s a tip. If you truly want to heal something your side caused, you have to take responsibility for your actions and work to clean up the mess you caused. Then you can talk to the other side about healing.

      Step 1 to healing: Republicans have to dump Trump. They can’t just say they don’t agree with some of his actions.

      Letter from Bilerakis:

      Dear Neighbor,

      Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to call or write to me over the past few days to share their feelings on the sensitive topic of impeachment. I understand many of you feel passionately about this issue. I released this statement to explain my thoughts on the subject. As I explained in my last newsletter, I was appalled by the violence at the Capitol, the senseless loss of life and destruction of public property that ensued. I am also concerned about reports of more planned attacks in Washington and around the country. Violence is NEVER justified.

      I have not agreed with many things the President has done and said over the past few weeks. However, the Speaker’s politically-motivated impeachment will continue to divide Americans. It further alienates millions of Americans who distrust our political processes, have concerns about the direction of our country and feel that their voices are being silenced. It will only fuel the anger and frustration that already exists. We need to find common ground and focus on the real challenges that families across our nation are experiencing.

      Aside from this being a counterproductive measure as we try to unite our nation, this reckless action sets a very dangerous precedent for our country. The House voting to impeach the President without listening to eyewitness testimony or reviewing a single piece of evidence is a violation of due process and a significant, undemocratic deviation from past procedures. Removing a duly elected President from office is a very serious proposition. I am genuinely concerned that this action will make it easier for future leaders to circumvent the will of the people and remove a future President without cause. In October of 2019, Speaker Pelosi herself issued a letter “establishing the procedures for impeachment hearings that were open to the American people, authorizing the disclosure of deposition transcripts, outlining the transfer of evidence to respective committees and setting forth due process rights for the President and his counsel.” Yet, as she rushed to make history in impeaching President Trump for a second time she failed to even give the pretense of creating an impartial process.

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1453

      Bilerakis wasn’t even there as he was on Covid restriction.

      Figures. That guy is a total asshole.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1453

      and setting forth due process rights for the President

      OMG, what a fucking tool. Afaik, last I checked, when dealing with the office of the presidunce, impeachment IS Due Process. Orange Hitler well have a hearing before the Senate. Once he’s out of the WH, then his Due Process Rights will be handled by the courts and not the legislature.

      I think I should go to his office in the TS SPC and take a dump on his office floor. My defence would be that I was exercising my First Amendment Right to Freedom of Expression. 😂

      Fortunately, I don’t receive any of his mailings. About 2015 or so, I stopped into the office with a piece of his Bullshit Propaganda. I shredded the mailing, ensuring to leave my info and address untouched, and dropped it on his floor, all while ripping his office last a new asshole, and telling her to pass on the message to remove my fucking info from his motherfucking mailing list. I haven’t seen a single thing from his office since then.

      That guy is one of the biggest fucking jokes in Congress. I’m surprised he hasn’t experienced back problems from having his head shoved so far up Trump’s Asshole. 😎

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3487

      I think I should go to his office in the TS SPC and take a dump on his office floor. My defence would be that I was exercising my First Amendment Right to Freedom of Expression. 😂

      You might be surprised to find that you probably won’t be charged with sedition or labeled a traitor. The pendulum is swinging way too far to the left right now and the OP is a clear example.

      You guys want to round all the Trumpers up and lock them up for life. You don’t want to see the capitol riots for what they are because that would require too much sympathy for these people who you despise.

      There were some very angry leftiists over the summer who also used violent tactics against Federal agents and destroyed private property. I just wonder why that activity seems to get a pass yet you want to round up all the trumpers/ militia members/ gun lovers etc.

      Did you guys know that Ron Paul had his twitter shut down for 24 hours durring all this. Ron Paul? Because now talking about individual liberty makes you a bad guy. This is the problem. If Roy doesn’t think it’s time to heal then it seems he thinks it’s time for retribution. It seems to me that the more radical people on the left realize that Trump gifted them the upper hand so they want to take advantage of that and crush everything that stands against socialist utopia.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5676

      AGAIN

      Twitter is a private company with terms and conditions.

      If they think that right wing propaganda is a liability to their business, they can shut you down.

      Just like a bar can kick out a drunk person.

      I don’t know the details of Ron Paul getting suspended but I DO know the details on why Trump and his cronies got suspended.

      And it makes a ton of sense… if your platform is being used to recruit domestic terrorists through disinformation, then you could get sued.

      People like you crying about this instead of a coup attempt is precisely why we mock your “we need to heal, not impeach”.

      You witnessed a coup attempt. A congresswoman gave tours of the building then tweeted “1776” and the whereabouts of Pelosi.

      She should be silenced, she should lose her position, and she should see criminal charges.

      If you think otherwise, you’re just a partisan hack

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3487

      Look, I could care less if they impeach Trump. The only thing I care about right now is preserving a shred of civil liberty and finding a foothold politically, for fiscal conservative, individual liberty positions going forward. Right now it’s very bleak. It would help a lot if left wingers would appreciate their own hatred and bigotry.

      People are mostly just people. When I view the video’s of the capitol riots, they are mostly comical. Most of the people didn’t do much more than shove. There was that one cop smashed against the wall…. that was terrible. there were quite a few bad ones but too many were just plain silly. They weren’t destroying stuff for the most part. I honestly do not think that they would have kidnapped or held congresspeople hostage because I don’t have the hatred that many of you do. Why weren’t they armed if they were trying to take over the government? I have no idea what would have happened if they’d have gotten to the House chamber and found Nancy and the entire congress in session but in complete honesty, I don’t think they would have done any of the nonsense some on the left are claiming when they talk about “Sedition” charges.

      I saw one video where a group of protesters were going into the chamber and one of the nuts says something like, “maybe we should set up a government or something”. Comical.

      In fairness, I might be less charitable with my view if BLM/Antifa busted into the halls of congress but that’s really my point anyway.

      Everybody needs to take a step back.

    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3674

      JBear, I don’t want to lock up the Trumpers, only those guilty of this terrible crime. Bilirakis isn’t guilty of that. I don’t want him locked up. This was an attempted takeover of Congress and an attempted kidnapping of members of Congress. It was due to actions of our President. To say you couldn’t care less about that I don’t know what to say. Speechless.

      This isn’t about retribution, its about justice for a crime against America. You can’t commit this type of crime and just forget about it and move on in a couple weeks. It has to be dealt with. You can’t have healing and move on when the criminal is still on the loose and looking to commit more crimes against this nation. And there are people like Bilirakis (sorry for previous misspelling) and many others who have no intention of holding Trump accountable or even shutting him down from committing further acts against our government.

      You saying you don’t give a crap. That’s like somebody beat up my Dad and you say “I don’t care it wasn’t my Dad”. Yeah I take offense to you not giving a crap just because its not your people. That’s what happened in Nazi Germany. Too many people said well at least its not me, but eventually they will get around to you. You can count on it, JBear. And Trump is not done, not unless the Republicans shut him down. And if they don’t there will be hell to pay. He’s not done.

      As for the rights and freedoms you think are being taken away, these social media companies are just trying to prevent violent insurrection. Do you really think Facebook and Twitter give a rats ass about what some right winger or left winger or anything in-between says? No they don’t. They want to make a profit and it doesn’t behoove them to shut anybody down just because of their beliefs. But they become liable for allowing people to incite violence against the government. That’s all they care about is their liability. Its against the law to advocate for violent overthrow of the government by the way. That’s nothing new, JBear.

      As for Section 230. That would have made it easier, not harder, to shut down free speech by taking away protections from the social media companies. And it was Donald J. Trump who wanted to do that so he could control the social media like he controls Voice of America. Bottom line: Your rights to free speech would have been trampled much worse if Trump had won another four years. So be glad the Democrats won. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

    • Col. Klink

      Participant
      Post count: 182

      You don’t want to see the capitol riots for what they are because that would require too much sympathy for these people who you despise.

      Not sure what you’re getting at here. There were different levels to the Capitol riots. On one level you’ve got the far right extremists/anarchists who had a strategy going in that I’m sure none of us would have sympathy for. There were some involved that were akin to many of the summer rioters in that they took this as an opportunity to just be trespassing assholes …… and then there was a portion there that I do some have sympathy for. They were duped into believing by their cult leader, abetted by some (R) leaders, that there was a chance for the election to be overturned on that day. I don’t have sympathy for “Hang Pence”, etc chanters or the gallows builders but I do for the simple minded common folk who didn’t participate. Ones who just came away deeply disappointed because of their own ignorance and gullibility …

      And it was Paul’s FB not Twitter that was shut down briefly ….. supposedly a mistake.

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1453

      You might be surprised to find that you probably won’t be charged with sedition or labeled a traitor.

      You are correct, as I went into an unsecured office space, on a college campus, where I had a right to be there, and the lady who received the additional asshole was there socially to deal with the public, so I was perfectly within my rights.

      The difference with the my case and the insurrections was that they went into a secure government facility with a specific intent to disrupt the joint session of Congress. They Assisi breached a secure outer gate, (you’ll notice in reports that a good number of them entered by breaching the East Gate. Should you be familiar with D.C., the part of the Capitol always shown on television, which faces the Mall that runs to the Reflecting Pool, is the West side, which is where all visits from the public, when permitted, enter that way. So, a good number went in through the back door. (Trust me, you do not want to be in the East side of Capitol Hill. They’re lucky they weren’t shot by local gangs.) Not to mention that they did not walk through an open entrance by invitation. After breaching the gates, they went through guarded checkpoints, rushed past a very unprepared group of Capitol Police, (they’re a pretty small agency), and then proceeded to enter the Capitol by smashing through windows and other unsecured area. The doors were opened from the inside.)

      So, where I entered an office o open to the public, they broke into a Federal Building. Thus they were committing federal crimes. I wasn’t. Have you ever tried to get through the gates of any military base, or CIA Headquarters in Langley, or even NIH, for that matter. In the first two instances. You wouldn’t be arrested. You would be shot on sight before you made it ten feet beyond the gates. You are comparing apples to oranges. It is a false equivalency.

      When I worked at DoJ, I was often required to go into secure areas of MOD, D.C. Superior Court, US District Court, my own agency, the DoJ building, a few FBI buildings, and into secure areas that held NCIC and CJIS data. I also would have to go into the cell block that takes up the entire lower level of D.C. Superior Court, and I think they had a way in from MPD. In all of those situations, in order to get into any of those places I would have to flash my badge and credentials to each Guard station, and in some places, like the cell block, I would audio have to sign in and out, while going through a looong walkway with bated entrances and exits. I would reach the prisoners after about four checkpoints. Granted, I did not have to go through the metal detectors; however, even though they knew me, I’dI did not follow protocol, I wasn’t getting inside, despite the fact that I would go out drinking with some of those peeps, or see them at the FoP Lodge across the street. It was always “No Tickee, No Entry.

      Had there been a sufficient number of officers at the Capitol, there writing been fewer people arrested, as a number of them, particularly the ones going in through the back, would have been shot. That incident could’ve made Benghazi look like a few old women with picket signs. This simply wasn’ta case of vandalising a local police precinct, or av library. What they did was commit Treason, much like the Oklahoma Bombing that left so many unnecessary deaths. If you try to break into your local mayor’s office, you’ll get jail time. Treason is punishable by death, and this assault on a federal institution IS as detrimental to national security as the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City.

      This action goes beyond party, and it goes beyond a few people wrongfully upset about an election. There simply is no comparison. I expect better if you. You’re capable of debate without dropping to false comparisons. You are not OT. This has nothing to do with one party bbs another. If it were, then we truly should be praying for Civil War, because this action was wrong regardless of who participated. I would be just as critical of BLM, had they ever breached the Capitol while the legislature was in session. That is insurrection, period. It was insurrection of it was the alt-right. It was insurrection if it was BLM, and it was insurrection if it was a gaggle of Girl Scouts. (Although, had it been Girl Scouts, I probably would’ve bought a case of cookies prior to them storming the holding.

      Just be logical. If ANYONE would’ve committed that act by breaching the Oval Office, there would’ve been a swift and deadly response. The Secret Service is not the Capitol Police.

      This is one instance where you cannot justify the action due to civil disobedience. These people even had an idea of places of weakness that was easier to breach. There is no room for insurrection, regardless of the reason, and as a result, D.C. now has 25,000 armed troops. Trump wanted Martial Law. He got what he wanted.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3487

      You saying you don’t give a crap. That’s like somebody beat up my Dad and you say “I don’t care it wasn’t my Dad”. Yeah I take offense to you not giving a crap just because its not your people. That’s what happened in Nazi Germany. Too many people said well at least its not me, but eventually they will get around to you. You can count on it, JBear. And Trump is not done, not unless the Republicans shut him down. And if they don’t there will be hell to pay. He’s not done.

      I give you points for turning that one around on me. This really is a great example of why the left and right will never see eye to eye on anything. It’s a fundamental difference in how we see the world. The leftist sees the crushing of individual beliefs and views as insignificant so long as the end result appears to be in the common good. That is why you can take my warning about authoritarians crushing free speech and opinions and turn it around to; if the Germans had only exterminated the early Nazi party they could have saved millions.

      It’s the entire belief system. That you can fix everything if you just use enough force and make people see the world the same way as all the good people. And it’s a really difficult argument for those who defend free speech because it ties free speech with the worst possible human beings on the planet. That is why being against violence is so important to this position.

      Take every large scale atrocity that has taken place in the last century and you will quickly see that it’s always authoritarian governments that have made these atrocities possible. When a people decide to give authority to a government that allows it to single out large swaths of the populace as enemies of the state, you’re well on your way to this sort of hell.

      Last of all, I didn’t mean that I don’t care in the way that you seemed to take it. I meant that I voted for Trump but am not defending him. I’m not saying I agree with your take on what needs to be done as you can see from my above post. I am making some assumptions about your position so If I’m wrong I do apologize but it does seem that you do have a fairly aggressive view of what we need to do with the Trumpers. Not all Trumpers but based on what I saw…. a large portion of them.

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3487

      Not sure what you’re getting at here. There were different levels to the Capitol riots. On one level you’ve got the far right extremists/anarchists who had a strategy going in that I’m sure none of us would have sympathy for. There were some involved that were akin to many of the summer rioters in that they took this as an opportunity to just be trespassing assholes …… and then there was a portion there that I do some have sympathy for. They were duped into believing by their cult leader, abetted by some (R) leaders, that there was a chance for the election to be overturned on that day. I don’t have sympathy for “Hang Pence”, etc chanters or the gallows builders but I do for the simple minded common folk who didn’t participate. Ones who just came away deeply disappointed because of their own ignorance and gullibility …

      And it was Paul’s FB not Twitter that was shut down briefly ….. supposedly a mistake.

      Those are all fair enough points. My concern isn’t for the view you state here but for some of the more extreme calls for removing legislators for initially supporting Trumps election challenges or for those who advocate for a broader and more general tracking down and doxing of anyone who may have supported any of these actions before the breaching of the capital. I fear a more broad and general popular movement giving broader power to the government to curtail free speech, gatherings, or to single out lawful groups or activities (gun rights groups/religious groups etc) for scorn and survaillance.

      I learned a long time ago that it’s really easy for people with a lot of power to find something incriminating on their enemies.

      The only thing I really fear is losing the right to my own mind and opinions. I wish some of you guys could appreciate why some people feel that way about some of the things that you think are awesome ideas that you’d have to be a moron not to support.

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3487

      Had there been a sufficient number of officers at the Capitol, there writing been fewer people arrested, as a number of them, particularly the ones going in through the back, would have been shot. That incident could’ve made Benghazi look like a few old women with picket signs. This simply wasn’ta case of vandalising a local police precinct, or av library. What they did was commit Treason, much like the Oklahoma Bombing that left so many unnecessary deaths. If you try to break into your local mayor’s office, you’ll get jail time. Treason is punishable by death, and this assault on a federal institution IS as detrimental to national security as the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City.

      This action goes beyond party, and it goes beyond a few people wrongfully upset about an election. There simply is no comparison. I expect better if you. You’re capable of debate without dropping to false comparisons. You are not OT. This has nothing to do with one party bbs another. If it were, then we truly should be praying for Civil War, because this action was wrong regardless of who participated. I would be just as critical of BLM, had they ever breached the Capitol while the legislature was in session. That is insurrection, period. It was insurrection of it was the alt-right. It was insurrection if it was BLM, and it was insurrection if it was a gaggle of Girl Scouts. (Although, had it been Girl Scouts, I probably would’ve bought a case of cookies prior to them storming the holding.

      I appreciate the thoughtful response but I take issue with this:

      You are equating participants in a mob to the OKC bomber? It’s just not equivielnt. And many who were sympathetic to the causes supported by the protests over the summer would have likely been arguing the reverse when talking about the few bad apples that broke things or assaulted LEO’s. There have been many studies about what happens in a mob one of the most known is that good people will often do things they would never do otherwise.

      And the government is supposed to represent all the people, even these dingbats. Sure in an authoritarian state or in the world we lived in just a half century ago, I’m sure 95% of people would agree with you. But if you take all the Trump hatred out and put some different labels on the parties involved and you might find more sympathy than you think. People want to be heard. These people were doing that and got caught up in the moment thanks in part to the orange windbag.

      You know what I would have liked to have seen? I’d have liked to have seen some courage from some of these lawmakers. And I mean from both parties. Ok, if I was Nancy I’d run too but I sincerely believe that these were mostly normal people who did not have weapons and who probably wouldn’t have done much more than yell and maybe shove. I honestly believe I would have sat my ass in that chamber and dared them. I’d have talked to them. I’d have let them yell at me.

      You probably think I’m a liar but I honestly believe this and I think it would have been a huge service to the country if someone would have had the balls to do it.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5676

      Oh my God!

      The left isn’t taking away liberties here!

      Private businesses are…

      Facebook in particular has avoided any censorship for a long time, despite growing evidence that the platform was used to spread intentional disinformation for the purpose of election interference.

      You didn’t cry about Facebook then… NOW you are because they are STILL exercising their right as a company.

      They finally drew a line in the sand way too late, and for obvious reasons.

      Facebook =/= “the left”

      You are falsely equating the two

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5676

      And I shouldn’t even say they are taking away liberties… the real issue isn’t that social media is silencing them but rather, how much we depend on social media for news/information.

      If Twitter was irrelevant nobody would care. Prior to Trump, Twitter wasn’t used primarily for politicians to communicate with their audience.

      Trump normalized Twitter the past 4 years, now all politicians use it.

      So there is no “silence”. Go to tv, or radio, or a press conference like the old days.

      Stop being lazy and entitled to the platform a private company has created.

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1453

      @jbear,

      I’m breaking this down to a few points. Also, since I do this typing on one of my iPhones, there will be typos; however, this site is too buggy, so if I don’t catch them on initial typing, I’m not going to risk editing. I’m certain the typos can usually be deciphered.

      In general, you speak of an infringement on civil liberties. First, one had to be constant of the fact that your civil liberties and at the point where they infringe upon another’s civil liberties.

      Another main point, and I do not mean this is a negative way; however, I am not certain how old you are. This is important, as we learn from experience, but also from observation, and as you live through generations, you gain new perspectives. I’m Gen X, but on the earliest fringe of Gen X. As a result, growing up, I started off with memories of the missile crisis, watching Oswald be shot on live television, after the last successful assassination of a sitting President. I remember “white only” and “coloured only” signs and legal segregation. As a result, that was a very turbulent time, and along with growing up through Vietnam, that also meant seeing MLK and RFK being assassinated. Growing up in D.C., I attended a good number of anti-war protests. Do you know who took me to those protests? Pretty much friend of mine, a few years older, who actually went to Vietnam after being drafted, unlike Mr. Bone Spurs. They were the most fervent of the protestors, as they had spent their teen years watching what napalm can do to a human, a lot of them old people and children, and they were some of the people who napalmed those villages. It is easy to be an armchair protestor, and hold an opinion years after, or without being there. It’s another to watch the flesh burn off of children as they melt into a pile of ash. This is why I have never supported the US involvement in a war that were had no business being in, yet I do not, and did not judge those people who chose to be there via the draft. This is also one of the earliest of my Trump hatred was his attacks on John McCain. I have never, in my entire life, voted for a Republican, abs I never will; however, NO ONE, not even a radical socialist like myself, has the right to insult someone who chose to go into a war, and then endured years of torture at the Hanoi Hilton. He even could’ve left at some point; however, chose to remain because he did not want special favours due to his rank. Would Trump ever do that? I’d lay even money that Trump had probably never even fired a weapon, let alone an M16, and I’m pretty certain that his jet isn’t equipped with missiles. Yet I digress. The 60s were a very turbulent time, and my first impression of Republicans were memories of Nixon starting in motion such atrocities as Kent State, and My Lai.

      Enough of the 60s; however, if you’re still reading, I’ll take you with one thing. Find the song “Still in Saigon” by Charlie Daniels. It’s the only song in his entire discography that isn’t available for play on the millions of TouchTunes boxes that have kill Ed the era of old school juke boxes. (To their credit, they’ve also killed off a vast majority of bars that used DJs. Bar Room DJs was one of the lowest points in human evolution. 😎 Also, like Johnny Cash, you can’t say that Charlie Daniels was an anti-American leftist. The song lyrics will give you a good insight into the quandary that a number of people faced back then, and why one can oppose a war, but not the people in it.)

      I could write a couple novels about that era, so I’ll leave it at that.

      One additional thing, which no one seems to want to think about, is the rights to this land from its original owners. Personally, I wish the other side would’ve won. This country belongs to them. I’m just glad that I had no ancestors in this country until the 1900’s. It’s also why I don’t really feel a connection to this country. I’d have no problem leaving. I have no allegiance to this land or its founding Principles.

      Now, on to some of your points.

      You are equating participants in a mob to the OKC bomber?

      Yes, I do equate that insurrection attempt with something as devastating as OKC. My reason is not because of what happened, but what could’ve happened. Yeah, you have a lot of people there who just wanted selfies. (God, I hate those peeps that have to snap some lame-ass shit of themselves. (I’m Culture of that once, and it wasn’t my idea. In 2016, I was in a flight from D.C. to TPA. I was in the third row of first class, sitting next to a reporter flying down to cover the direction. In the seat in front of me, as we were getting ready to de-plane, I saw it was Charlie Crist. I asked if I could snap a pic of him. He agreed and I did. It was then his idea that I take a pic with him. He allowed me to snap his photo, so I didn’t want to be rude, and as such, the MSNBC girl I was sitting next to offered to take the shot.) Sorry for the tangent.)

      Back to the main reason I equate this with OKC is not because of the end result, but the potential that could’ve been. My point is, it is the intent, not always the result, that matters. What if that can full of explosives didn’t blow as expected? A bad detonation device, user error, etc. Would their crimes have been any less devastating? They were there to commit a violent attack on the government. Changing old school George Carlin, it is the full consent of the will that makes it a sin, so if you woke up wanting to feel up Mary, save the bus fare. You’ve already committed the sin. 😃

      I’ll use another example. Under Clinton, terrorists tried to blow up the World Trade Center. The fucked up. Was their crime any less evil than when they finally succeeded?

      To channel a little Trump, while there were some good people in that crowd, (end channeling), there were people there that wanted to execute members of the current government. Some people were hit for killing Pelosi,, and others were on a mission to hang Pence in the Capitol Rotunda. Granted, they fucked up and it failed, but what if it didn’t? In some states, if you’re sitting in a car drinking a Coke, while your friend decides to off the cashier in a gas station, you are Audi guilty of Capital Murder. So, yeah, the definition of a crime has great areas. It still does not excuse the intent of the desired actions from some of those people. Would you feel differently had you gotten to see Pence lynched on the six o’clock news? John Hinckley failed in his attempt to kill Reagan. He still couldn’t avoid spending his life in St. E’s, and he only got that because his parents had money. Also, if you’ve ever seen St. E’s, I think a lot of people would’ve preferred Prison.

      So, that is my point. A failed coup is still a coup. I’m not certain if you ever saw footage of Qadaffi, after he was grabbed by a mob, but it wasn’t pretty. I’m fairly sure he would’ve chosen firing squad.

      Same with Mussolini. Lots of pics of him being hung from a bacon, where his curious was then defiled by passers-by fir a while, but his initial death wasn’t something anyone would choose. Hitler knew that, which is why he ate a bullet.

      I’m sorry, but I can’t condone an attempted inspection, regardless of who started it, or what their gripe was about.

      There have been many studies about what happens in a mob one of the most known is that good people will often do things they would never do otherwise.

      For this I will refer to, I think it was Roy’s point. Only roughly ten percent of Germany agreed with Hitler and the Nazi’s. They just did so because they didn’t want to join the others at Spandau, Dachau, Auschwitz, etc.

      To expand on Roy’s point, I’ll add a couple things I’ve read recently. I’ve seen it posited that, had Germany been given a better deal after WWI, there would’ve been less bitterness and the resulting populism that led to Hitler’s rise may not have occurred. Ironically, there were a number of leaders from nations that argued for a less harsh treatment of Germany. Unfortunately, the influenza pandemic was at its peak, as as such, some representatives of nations couldn’t be present for negotiations of the treaty. Granted, it’s all supposition at this point, but it is a compelling point as to how Hitler was able to gain power.

      (Side note: The Spanish Flu didn’t originate in Spain. It received that name primarily because Spain did the most research in identifying the disease and then studying it. I can’t recall where the presumed flu actually started, but it was an interesting read. Equally interesting was that it most likely Dias the way it did due to WWI, and massive troop movements. Travel wasn’t as easy back then. Had there not been a war, one can only imagine what may have been.

      And the government is supposed to represent all the people,

      Very true. The government is supposed to represent all people. It hasn’t been that long when things actually did get done, despite differences in opinion. I’m not going to try to break down the rains it’s gotten worse; however, personally, I feel that the ease of communication could be a part of the problem. In the past, limited access to media exposure kept a lot of whack job ideas limited to smaller reasons. Now, any idiot that can afford $25 for a phone has access to a plethora is alternate media. As I’ve mentioned in some OT topics, the internet is not a reliable source of information. Reason seems to have gone out the window with the advent of the digital era. People no longer often see any idea that does not agree with their own viewpoints. Discourse is dead. We can all live in our own bubbles these days. It is the antithesis of Timothy Leary’s “Tune In, Turn On, Drop Out.” Neuter everyone is just doing into their own targeted media experience. In a large part, I blame a lot of this on companies like FB, and others. We are in Orwell’s 1984. Big Brother IS watching us. Orwell just didn’t live in an era where Big Brother could use extremely convoluted algorithms that permit companies to target people with such accuracy that were no longer need to think for ourselves. The thinking is fine for us, and then made to allow us to believe it was our idea. In reality, we are not experiencing 1984. We’re living in the precursor to Minority Report, or The Matrix.

      There is a fun clip from Californication. It can be search by the phrase LOL and LMFAO on YouTube. My favourite comment in that clip, loosely, from memory, “The internet was doused to democratise us. Set us free. Instead all it’s done is given us four figure wank machines with unlimited access to kiddie porn and Howard Dean’s aborted Presidential Campaign.”

      The problem is, this algorithm is flawed, which is why Apple THINKS it knows what I want to type, but fucks up a lot, changing words in my sentences to things that have no logical place in my point, so the process is still seriously flawed.

      Another problem: People don’t read any more. One cannot form valid, logical thoughts from so