Bruce Arian's Arizona draft History- Not Great!

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  • #1176014
    Havok904
    Participant

    I think B. Arians has already given up playcalling. I think the dude just wants to coach. In Tampa hes got a relatively young QB who could be a franchise guy and a GM he is familiar with.
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    Could be.

    But I doubt any veteran coach would put his fate totally in the hands of a GM. Coaches want to build their teams and select the personel they feel would fit into their scheme giving them the best chance to succeed.

    Other than maybe Koetter’s first year, there is probably very little chance that Licht controlled the draft room and FA signing since he arrived.

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    #1176017
    GameTime
    Participant

    But I doubt any veteran coach would put his fate totally in the hands of a GM.

    I wouldnt use the word totally.  He probably came hhere in part because he knew he could trust and work with licht.

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    #1176019
    Roy
    Participant

    You have it totally wrong. Arians came here because he trusts Licht to take the lead in the personnel area.

    —-

    And how do you know this?

    I don’t know anything more than any Joe Fan who reads PR and other Bucs news and rumors sites.    I just have amazing talents of perception and intuition.

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    #1176032
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    ruce Arian’s Arizona draft History- Not Great!

    thanks goodness for you guys you have Licht there to correct him when he’s off on his picks……

    You have it totally wrong.

    So your new head coach is delegating drafting and playcalling. Sounds like a great gig at nearly 70 yrs of age……

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    #1176056
    Havok904
    Participant

    Havok904 wrote:
    BUT I DOUBT ANY VETERAN COACH WOULD PUT HIS FATE TOTALLY IN THE HANDS OF A GM.

    I wouldnt use the word totally. He probably came hhere in part because he knew he could trust and work with licht.
    —–
    I disagree.

    He probably came here because he knew the Glazers rely on Licht to be more of a business manager than a football guy.
    The coaches select the players and Licht’s main job is working the contracts and cap strategy.

    The guy has a 27-53 record as a football executive. Do you really think the Glazers keep him around because he is great at evaluating football talent? The Head Coaches have a hell of a lot more influence on who is drafted and FA signings than he does. Its been that way since Lovie.

    Also, you would have to be a total idiot to believe Arians looks at the Bucs as opportunity to grow old, pad his 401k, and give OJT to his assistant coaches. That’s Buctard logic.

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    #1176065
    tog
    Participant

    @bucfanfromatl

    Totally agree.

    It’s also why I think its silly to expect Arians to radically improve Licht’s GMing. Licht sucks, but Arians will get a lot out of the players that are here.

    The question is – will that be enough?

    My only caveat to that is does Arians still have it? After the retirement, health issues, and a couple years of losing… is 2019 Arians the 13-13 coach of the 8-8 one.

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    #1176073
    GameTime
    Participant

    I disagree.

    He probably came here because he knew the Glazers rely on Licht to be more of a business manager than a football guy.

    The coaches select the players and Licht’s main job is working the contracts and cap strategy.

    The guy has a 27-53 record as a football executive. Do you really think the Glazers keep him around because he is great at evaluating football talent? The Head Coaches have a hell of a lot more influence on who is drafted and FA signings than he does. Its been that way since Lovie.

    I thought Greenberg did the contracts and cap strategy?

    Since the beginning of time we’ve argued who is in control of the draft.

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    #1176082
    tog
    Participant

    Havok904 wrote:

    BUT I DOUBT ANY VETERAN COACH WOULD PUT HIS FATE TOTALLY IN THE HANDS OF A GM.

    I wouldnt use the word totally. He probably came hhere in part because he knew he could trust and work with licht.

    —–

    I disagree.

    He probably came here because he knew the Glazers rely on Licht to be more of a business manager than a football guy.

    The coaches select the players and Licht’s main job is working the contracts and cap strategy.

    The guy has a 27-53 record as a football executive. Do you really think the Glazers keep him around because he is great at evaluating football talent? The Head Coaches have a hell of a lot more influence on who is drafted and FA signings than he does. Its been that way since Lovie.

    Also, you would have to be a total idiot to believe Arians looks at the Bucs as opportunity to grow old, pad his 401k, and give OJT to his assistant coaches. That’s Buctard logic.

    That’s weird to me. First, what “business” does Licht handle? Second, that 27-53 GM is still in charge of the front office and scouting department. The problem isn’t just Licht but the system he’s a part of and has created. He’s not making decisions in a vacuum, he’s also built a large team to provide him with information.

    There’s always interplay between the coaches and GM. And while Lovie had more power certainly his 1st year Koetter was not the one calling the shots. You have to have evidence to demonstrate that.

    And even with Arians – yes Arians came in with power but he’s historically been a guy who’s involved in the front office (like most coaches) but stays in his lane and lets the front office do its thing.

    Again, need evidence to say otherwise.

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    #1176710
    Havok904
    Participant

    LoL

    He has more than a “feel”. He’s been told what to do.

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    #1176752
    BucNCane
    Participant

    Feel like you could take the last 5 years of a lot of teams and say they drafted not great in the first.

    Pats haven’t had a pro bow first rounder since Dont’a Hightower in 2013

    Saints 2011 Ingram

    seahawks 2010 earl thomas.

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    #1176755
    BucNCane
    Participant

    And on the flip side, Bills have drafted Marcel Darius, tre white, Sammy Watkins and stephon Gilmore and they won bunk.

    Hell, Bucs have drafted 3 pro bowlers in the first round since 2012 in Evans Winston and Martin.

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    #1176786
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Feel like you could take the last 5 years of a lot of teams and say they drafted not great in the first.

    Pats haven’t had a pro bow first rounder since Dont’a Hightower in 2013

    Saints 2011 Ingram

    seahawks 2010 earl thomas.

    those teams tend to get the bottom of the first round, Bucs usually get the top half or better….they can take risks, Bucs can’t afford to risk picks

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    #1176787
    Buc on the Move
    Participant

    So…we should definitely try to emulate those winning franchises and stop drafting Pro Bowlers in the first round, got it.

     

    Seriously, though, that is an interesting correlation (or lack thereof) of First Round pick Success vs. Team Success.

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    #1176825
    Roy
    Participant

    ruce Arian’s Arizona draft History- Not Great!

    thanks goodness for you guys you have Licht there to correct him when he’s off on his picks……

    You have it totally wrong.

    So your new head coach is delegating drafting and playcalling. Sounds like a great gig at nearly 70 yrs of age……

    Here’s a guy a tidge older than Arians and his main job in the draft is to congratulate the draftees.  He could have gone home after Day 1 and it wouldn’t have made a difference.   What an overrated coach.

    A look inside the Patriots' war room during the 2018 NFL Draft

     

     

     

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    #1176837
    Diehard Astheycome
    Participant

    ruce Arian’s Arizona draft History- Not Great!

    thanks goodness for you guys you have Licht there to correct him when he’s off on his picks……

    Priceless , when it’s all said and done it will be 8 + yrs more of futility to this franchise and 8+ yrs of our lives us diehards won’t get back. Arians is a good coach , not a great draft evaluator. However it’s the GMs job to provide the players. HC job is to “ coach”!! If nothing else this team should have all the foundations in its secondary and the right side of the Oline fixed!! Last year was a DB heavy draft it’s a weak position this year. Safeties are all 2nd day grades- not two top 10’s like last year. A GM should know which classes are which.An all pro safety was gift wrapped with two #2’s plus a 3rd #2. We should have gotten our Safety n two future starting CBs plus OL /LB by end of rd 2. Then knowing the strength of the 2019 draft , this is when you’d find Gmac replacement!! I also was the ONLY person on the boards last year that thought the JPP excitement would be short and expensive. That an early 3rd had more “ future” potential. We could have stacked our secondary/ right side of our line, within first 3 rds considering we traded up to get a #3!! ( we’d had 2 if not for JPP trade). Also Vea vs SF and JPP having had a good game last year  probably cost us Bosa, Allen or Q Williams. So they’d be replaceable, that secondary foundation plus OL or LB help we cost ourselves last year not so much. All the die hard everything is positive Bucs fans ? You don’t need hindsight to see a major mistake happening right before your eyes. I was right on last years draft ! As I’ve been right on all 5 of Lichts drafts.

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