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    • Alldaway 2.0

      Participant
      Post count: 4394

      I have silently watched and read the commentary the last few weeks.  I knew heading into the Titans game it would be a tough matchup for the Bucs.  It was obvious since the pre season the weaknesses the Bucs have are strengths for the Titans.Lovie and Licht may lose their job for not recognizing this was a rebuilding job starting last year.  This is one of the youngest teams in football and the Glazers should have hired a young offensive mind as the new HC.Defensive hires of Morris, Schiano and now Lovie have yielded results that have not produced an NFL average team yet.This team has the talent to reach 6-10.  But they lack a direction and they do not look prepared.  Morris had them looking on point year 1 but the wheels fell off by year three.  Schiano had them on point look prepared throughout his two years but the wheels fell off due to his own undoing.  Lovie currently has a team that hasn't looked prepared to play football thus far.Overall, I am taking a wait and see approach.

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    • JonMott

      Participant
      Post count: 319

      With our talent we could go 500.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      With our talent we could go 500.

      Well that is the thing...Bucs have the talent to look like an NFL average team but they look unprepared once again.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 855

      With our talent we could go 500.

      ESPECIALLY in this division.I watched the Jaguars/Panthers game and the Falcons/Eagles game and there's no reason why Tampa shouldn't at least split with those two teams. Shame on Lovie if he can't win at least 3 division games this year.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      With our talent we could go 500.

      ESPECIALLY in this division.I watched the Jaguars/Panthers game and the Falcons/Eagles game and there's no reason why Tampa shouldn't at least split with those two teams. Shame on Lovie if he can't win at least 3 division games this year.

      The crazy thing is we were saying this last year?  With the way the division is set up Lovie should reach six wins (3-3 divisional games, the rest against not divisional opponents).

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1166

      What worries me is the fact that Lovie doesn’t know how to adjust a Def.  Or at least he didn’t in Week 1.  Mariota had ~200 yards passing of which ~170 of it was after the catch.  How do you not adjust your D?  Between this and his hiring choices (what is Frazier's job again?), Lovie is not doing himself any favors. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 212

        AD      GREAT POSTS    +1

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      With our talent we could go 500.

      Agreed. But, Lovie will hold us back from that.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      It is entirely possible the Bucs have a fire sale with the few remaining “old” players on the team by the trading dead line.  Mankins, VJAX, etc are not safe.This is one of the youngest teams in football and will become younger.  Whether this season or the next.But coaching has to improve.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1550

      Bucs have been rebuilding since 2008.  :'(

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 855

      It is entirely possible the Bucs have a fire sale with the few remaining "old" players on the team by the trading dead line.  Mankins, VJAX, etc are not safe.This is one of the youngest teams in football and will become younger.  Whether this season or the next.But coaching has to improve.

      I don’t see many teams taking on VJAX contract at his age. I think I’d rather have him be our #2 WR until his contract runs out. Mankins on the other hand can go. I don’t see anybody trading for him but I do think a release will happen once the season is over.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Bucs have been rebuilding since 2008.  :'(

      Bucs had a myriad of failed drafts before 2008 and lost draft picks.  Lots of failed draft choices by Dominik too after 2009.This is a rebuilding team.  It is one of the youngest teams in football.

      It is entirely possible the Bucs have a fire sale with the few remaining "old" players on the team by the trading dead line.  Mankins, VJAX, etc are not safe.This is one of the youngest teams in football and will become younger.  Whether this season or the next.But coaching has to improve.

      I don't see many teams taking on VJAX contract at his age. I think I'd rather have him be our #2 WR until his contract runs out. Mankins on the other hand can go. I don't see anybody trading for him but I do think a release will happen once the season is over.

      Mankins and VJAX are nice stop gaps for a very young team but if the trade deadline comes and the Bucs are looking to the future the trade options will be explored.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 232

      to use the common analogy we aren’t simply rebuildingwe're looking for the right foreman/ project managerraheem pull a rag tag freshman group to 10-6 (and for the record we did not just beat cupcakes) check it out we beat 2 or three playoff teamsthe following season started 4- 0 before nosediving with no knowledge of how to recoverschiano in all his lunacy- yanked us out of a nosedive to 7-9 before crashing into the side of mount his way or his waylovie sold the team on nostalgia and swore he was in his basement cooking up some grand fiesta and this ain't even taco bell at this pointthis team needs somebody who knows how to build using the foundation laid and parts already bought and paid for - Just add to it to make a beautiful buildingthis post was sponsored by the war eagle AUBURN professional builders associate: where we don't tear down the house because the electrician and plumber is a complete idiot

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      In other words another Gruden haha?It isn't happening any time soon.  Lovie has to accept this is the team he has built and coach them up.  Roster has turned over at least 70% of the players by now.  It is his team and he is the manager in charge of this project.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Lovie and Licht may lose their job for not recognizing this was a rebuilding job starting last year. 

      I think they've known since early last season that it was a rebuilding job. That's why they laid-low on free agency. That's why the dumped the dead weight. That's why we are churning the bottom of the roster. That's why they are starting JW, and throwing a lot at him.  It's probably why they brought in Ryan Griffin (to give them flexibility in the next several months with Glennon). They aren't allowed to say it because it's the NFL, but the actions speak pretty loudly.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Lovie and Licht may lose their job for not recognizing this was a rebuilding job starting last year. 

      I think they've known since early last season that it was a rebuilding job. That's why they laid-low on free agency. That's why the dumped the dead weight. That's why we are churning the bottom of the roster. That's why they are starting JW, and throwing a lot at him.  It's probably why they brought in Ryan Griffin (to give them flexibility in the next several months with Glennon). They aren't allowed to say it because it's the NFL, but the actions speak pretty loudly.

      The problem is last off season they didn't sell it as a rebuilding job. It was more of an approach that said we can be competitive now even though we are missing pieces.  They tried to do the right thing in free agency by trying to sign young, proven NFL players to help anchor the lines but that failed.  It is true that they don't want to say it is rebuilding season but they can't proclaim that they are not rebuilding when they come to a 4-12 team year 1.It is clear to me that this is more of a rebuilding season than Raheem's first year.  Not only a rookie QB, but a rookie MIKE a rookie LT, rookie RG.  A lot of 2nd and 3rd year playerss and very young players at DE.It is a young team that will become even more younger by next year with the subtraction of a lot of the veteran stop gaps and addition of drafted players.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Lovie and Licht may lose their job for not recognizing this was a rebuilding job starting last year. 

      I think they've known since early last season that it was a rebuilding job. That's why they laid-low on free agency. That's why the dumped the dead weight. That's why we are churning the bottom of the roster. That's why they are starting JW, and throwing a lot at him.  It's probably why they brought in Ryan Griffin (to give them flexibility in the next several months with Glennon). They aren't allowed to say it because it's the NFL, but the actions speak pretty loudly.

      The problem is last off season they didn't sell it as a rebuilding job. It was more of an approach that said we can be competitive now even though we are missing pieces.  They tried to do the right thing in free agency by trying to sign young, proven NFL players to help anchor the lines but that failed.  It is true that they don't want to say it is rebuilding season but they can't proclaim that they are not rebuilding when they come to a 4-12 team year 1.It is clear to me that this is more of a rebuilding season than Raheem's first year.  Not only a rookie QB, but a rookie MIKE a rookie LT, rookie RG.  A lot of 2nd and 3rd year playerss and very young players at DE.It is a young team that will become even more younger by next year with the subtraction of a lot of the veteran stop gaps and addition of drafted players.

      I agree. I think they thought the young core was much better (not guys like LVD and McCoy, but Barron, Martin, Banks) and clearly they thought the FAs were going to have a big impact. I think by the Ravens game at the latest they figured out that things were a lot worse than that.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1828

      Bucs have been rebuilding since 2008.  :'(

      this x 1000We've already tried the clean house and clear the old guys thing when we brought in Raheem and said goodbye to Brooks, Dunn, Hilliard, Galloway, and Cato June. It's the main reason why fans are sick of this by now. We're not impatient....we've been patiently waiting for over 5 years now and seemingly zero progress has been made.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 894

      Lovie and Licht may lose their job for not recognizing this was a rebuilding job starting last year. 

      I think they've known since early last season that it was a rebuilding job. That's why they laid-low on free agency. That's why the dumped the dead weight. That's why we are churning the bottom of the roster. That's why they are starting JW, and throwing a lot at him.  It's probably why they brought in Ryan Griffin (to give them flexibility in the next several months with Glennon). They aren't allowed to say it because it's the NFL, but the actions speak pretty loudly.

      The problem is last off season they didn't sell it as a rebuilding job. It was more of an approach that said we can be competitive now even though we are missing pieces.  They tried to do the right thing in free agency by trying to sign young, proven NFL players to help anchor the lines but that failed.  It is true that they don't want to say it is rebuilding season but they can't proclaim that they are not rebuilding when they come to a 4-12 team year 1.It is clear to me that this is more of a rebuilding season than Raheem's first year.  Not only a rookie QB, but a rookie MIKE a rookie LT, rookie RG.  A lot of 2nd and 3rd year playerss and very young players at DE.It is a young team that will become even more younger by next year with the subtraction of a lot of the veteran stop gaps and addition of drafted players.

      I agree. I think they thought the young core was much better (not guys like LVD and McCoy, but Barron, Martin, Banks) and clearly they thought the FAs were going to have a big impact. I think by the Ravens game at the latest they figured out that things were a lot worse than that.

      Hopefully, the Glazers are now convinced that a quick hook is probably not the answer in spite of last weeks performance. Quite frankly, we have to correct the sins of Gruden, Morris, Raheem and last years FA debacle. Tall order. When the two edge rushers and the two to three more Olinemen get drafted next year and have one year to get experience, then and only then can ANYONE objectively say that Lovie is a bum, the schemes don't work, etc. This team, as well as the past three regimes have been firing on missed cylinders. Until all of the obvious holes are reasonably plugged, we are just kidding ourselves. I am not a Lovie advocate, I am a continuity advocate. Hopefully L&L are Moses and they will lead us out of the desert. 2002 seems like a century ago.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 894

      Bucs have been rebuilding since 2008.  :'(

      this x 1000We've already tried the clean house and clear the old guys thing when we brought in Raheem and said goodbye to Brooks, Dunn, Hilliard, Galloway, and Cato June. It's the main reason why fans are sick of this by now. We're not impatient....we've been patiently waiting for over 5 years now and seemingly zero progress has been made.

      We both agree that the rebuilding HAS TO STOP!!!!!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Bucs have been rebuilding since 2008.  :'(

      this x 1000We've already tried the clean house and clear the old guys thing when we brought in Raheem and said goodbye to Brooks, Dunn, Hilliard, Galloway, and Cato June. It's the main reason why fans are sick of this by now. We're not impatient....we've been patiently waiting for over 5 years now and seemingly zero progress has been made.

      The house has been cleaned out, but not completely.The remaining players left are mercs and guys that will not receive a second contract with the team in 2016.  This is going to look like a completely different team from the 2009 team by 2016.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 337

      I have silently watched and read the commentary the last few weeks.  I knew heading into the Titans game it would be a tough matchup for the Bucs.  It was obvious since the pre season the weaknesses the Bucs have are strengths for the Titans.

      Tough matchup? They got run 42-14 by the second worst team in football last year.Let that sink in. As for rebuilding -- if this team is rebuilding, why draft #ProReady instead of the player universally considered the better long-term prospect?

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      I have silently watched and read the commentary the last few weeks.  I knew heading into the Titans game it would be a tough matchup for the Bucs.  It was obvious since the pre season the weaknesses the Bucs have are strengths for the Titans.Lovie and Licht may lose their job for not recognizing this was a rebuilding job starting last year.  This is one of the youngest teams in football and the Glazers should have hired a young offensive mind as the new HC.Defensive hires of Morris, Schiano and now Lovie have yielded results that have not produced an NFL average team yet.This team has the talent to reach 6-10.  But they lack a direction and they do not look prepared.  Morris had them looking on point year 1 but the wheels fell off by year three.  Schiano had them on point look prepared throughout his two years but the wheels fell off due to his own undoing.  Lovie currently has a team that hasn't looked prepared to play football thus far.Overall, I am taking a wait and see approach.

      if you really buy what you are saying.........perhaps you need to move in just a tad bit closer and take a deeper look......focus.......focus.......there you go.......you just found the REAL issue.......which is the owners.  THEY are the ones who keep making these horrible decisions.lather, rinse, repeat.......

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      I have silently watched and read the commentary the last few weeks.  I knew heading into the Titans game it would be a tough matchup for the Bucs.  It was obvious since the pre season the weaknesses the Bucs have are strengths for the Titans.

      Tough matchup? They got run 42-14 by the second worst team in football last year.Let that sink in. As for rebuilding -- if this team is rebuilding, why draft #ProReady instead of the player universally considered the better long-term prospect?

      Late to the party.https://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?topic=1326427.0

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      "Universally" doesn't mean what you think it means.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      I have silently watched and read the commentary the last few weeks.  I knew heading into the Titans game it would be a tough matchup for the Bucs.  It was obvious since the pre season the weaknesses the Bucs have are strengths for the Titans.Lovie and Licht may lose their job for not recognizing this was a rebuilding job starting last year.  This is one of the youngest teams in football and the Glazers should have hired a young offensive mind as the new HC.Defensive hires of Morris, Schiano and now Lovie have yielded results that have not produced an NFL average team yet.This team has the talent to reach 6-10.  But they lack a direction and they do not look prepared.  Morris had them looking on point year 1 but the wheels fell off by year three.  Schiano had them on point look prepared throughout his two years but the wheels fell off due to his own undoing.  Lovie currently has a team that hasn't looked prepared to play football thus far.Overall, I am taking a wait and see approach.

      if you really buy what you are saying.........perhaps you need to move in just a tad bit closer and take a deeper look......focus.......focus.......there you go.......you just found the REAL issue.......which is the owners.  THEY are the ones who keep making these horrible decisions.lather, rinse, repeat.......

      The owners will have to let this play out.  No more knee jerk decisions.Let the Bucs finish rebuilding before blowing it up again.  The Browns are an example of what happens when you do it too frequently.  Lots of lost talent due to scheme changes.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      I have silently watched and read the commentary the last few weeks.  I knew heading into the Titans game it would be a tough matchup for the Bucs.  It was obvious since the pre season the weaknesses the Bucs have are strengths for the Titans.Lovie and Licht may lose their job for not recognizing this was a rebuilding job starting last year.  This is one of the youngest teams in football and the Glazers should have hired a young offensive mind as the new HC.Defensive hires of Morris, Schiano and now Lovie have yielded results that have not produced an NFL average team yet.This team has the talent to reach 6-10.  But they lack a direction and they do not look prepared.  Morris had them looking on point year 1 but the wheels fell off by year three.  Schiano had them on point look prepared throughout his two years but the wheels fell off due to his own undoing.  Lovie currently has a team that hasn't looked prepared to play football thus far.Overall, I am taking a wait and see approach.

      Good post. I agree about rebuilding. The only way we can stop rebuilding is to draft well and to have some stability at the head coaching position. As many have said, this is where everyone looks to the Glazers because they pulled the trigger and fired Gruden, after having fired a HOF coach just before that. Raheem Morris, Greg Schiano and Lovie Smith. Three coaches in the last six years means we are perpetually rebuilding. And if you factor in all of the coordinators thatvwere also let go it all adds up to one thing.................the players have spent more time learning a new system than they have spent actually playing football over the last six years. AND on Sunday they looked like they were trying to figure out where they were supposed to be instead of flying to the ball. At this point I want to see what we do on defense for the remainder of the year. I am with you that we need to wait and see what happens before we start all over again.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      A lot of good discussion in this thread.If a team takes a QB number 1, by definition they're rebuilding.and conversely if a team is deciding to rebuild, they start by drafting a talented QB.A competitive team is what I want this season.    I think we'll have an idea what we really have mid season.I really do need to see some adjustment and fire in game two.    A win would be nice, but not my expectation.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1198

      Year 7 of the Glazers rebuilding project and no signs of hope

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      I have silently watched and read the commentary the last few weeks.  I knew heading into the Titans game it would be a tough matchup for the Bucs.  It was obvious since the pre season the weaknesses the Bucs have are strengths for the Titans.Lovie and Licht may lose their job for not recognizing this was a rebuilding job starting last year.  This is one of the youngest teams in football and the Glazers should have hired a young offensive mind as the new HC.Defensive hires of Morris, Schiano and now Lovie have yielded results that have not produced an NFL average team yet.This team has the talent to reach 6-10.  But they lack a direction and they do not look prepared.  Morris had them looking on point year 1 but the wheels fell off by year three.  Schiano had them on point look prepared throughout his two years but the wheels fell off due to his own undoing.  Lovie currently has a team that hasn't looked prepared to play football thus far.Overall, I am taking a wait and see approach.

      if you really buy what you are saying.........perhaps you need to move in just a tad bit closer and take a deeper look......focus.......focus.......there you go.......you just found the REAL issue.......which is the owners.  THEY are the ones who keep making these horrible decisions.lather, rinse, repeat.......

      The owners will have to let this play out.  No more knee jerk decisions.Let the Bucs finish rebuilding before blowing it up again.  The Browns are an example of what happens when you do it too frequently.  Lots of lost talent due to scheme changes.

      you don't understand.......they are the weakest link.......and it will continue for another 15 plus years just like the last 15 plus years.......until they sell the team.it's a complete waste of time to argue about offenses or defenses, or players or coaches or GM's. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      I think the Glazers are heading into the right direction with the franchise now:My biggest complaint was that they let the team fanbase, franchise, and image of the team slowly wither away to focus on Man U.  The Bucs official website had fall behind the rest of the league by the time the 2007 season rolled around.  Despite Gruden fielding competitive teams in his last two years the fan base wasn't buying in and a big part of it was the lack of marketing. The blackouts made things worse as most fans or new potential fans never saw the Morris 10-6 team play for example.  When the Glazers returned from their fascination with Man U the Bucs franchise was in shambles.The Glazers went out and hired a new marketing and public relations staff.  A new website was unrolled with new content and even new uniforms.  The last 4-5 years the Glazers have finally started to invest in the Bucs BRAND again.  But the neglect can't be undone over night to bring back casual fans or the Tampa Bay community.All that is left is a competitive team that wins home games.  Still waiting for the other shoe to drop, but that is what is missing.  I think the Glazers felt guilty for letting the franchise being neglected so long that they let Schiano and Lovie go on their shopping sprees.  But again, you can't fix the neglect of the franchise within three years of spending sprees ala Snyder.  Before Schiano, the Bucs did spend a lot of money but most of the time it was to avoid the salary cap floor (penalty for being below).The purse strings started to open up with Schiano and Lovie but the damage was done with years of neglect even when Gruden was the head coach.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 286

      News flash: any new coach would = a new rebuilding process and they would have to commit to Jameis similar to the RGIII situation. Love has this year and next. 0-16 or not.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      News flash: any new coach would = a new rebuilding process and they would have to commit to Jameis similar to the RGIII situation. Love has this year and next. 0-16 or not.

      Nope, there is no way the glazers keep him if he is under 2 wins. Not happening. Anything slighty above that, and well, it probably depends on who is out there atm.And, of course, should he make 6 and above, there is no question he stays.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1550

      No coach can survive consecutive 2-14 seasons. I think the magic number for Lovie is 5. But we can’t see many more Sunday’s like last week.And I don't get complaining about the owners. You can't fire the owners - what's the point? The owners are who they are and they have no inclination of wanting to sell the team. They thought they were doing the right thing by bringing in an experienced head coach with ties to our glory years and teamed him with a young up and coming GM that had spent time in New England, an organization they've been trying to model after for awhile now.They don't know football, they're businessmen. They try to hire football guys. Sometimes they got it right (Dungy and Gruden), sometimes they got it wrong (everyone else). But other than the early Man U ownership years, its not like they aren't trying to win ballgames.I lived through Culverhouse. That's a guy who could care less whether this team won or lost as long as his check from the league cleared. He'd never put out the money the Glazers have to make this team better.At some point, the football guys got to coach and acquire the players they need to win.

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      No coach can survive consecutive 2-14 seasons. I think the magic number for Lovie is 5. But we can't see many more Sunday's like last week.And I don't get complaining about the owners. You can't fire the owners - what's the point? The owners are who they are and they have no inclination of wanting to sell the team. They thought they were doing the right thing by bringing in an experienced head coach with ties to our glory years and teamed him with a young up and coming GM that had spent time in New England, an organization they've been trying to model after for awhile now.They don't know football, they're businessmen. They try to hire football guys. Sometimes they got it right (Dungy and Gruden), sometimes they got it wrong (everyone else). But other than the early Man U ownership years, its not like they aren't trying to win ballgames.I lived through Culverhouse. That's a guy who could care less whether this team won or lost as long as his check from the league cleared. He'd never put out the money the Glazers have to make this team better.At some point, the football guys got to coach and acquire the players they need to win.

      I feel ya bro....but at the end of the day.........the glazer boys ARE Culverhouse.  they are not their father........never will be.everything else is window curtains.  every old school bucs fan I know recognizes this.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1198

      No coach can survive consecutive 2-14 seasons. I think the magic number for Lovie is 5. But we can't see many more Sunday's like last week.And I don't get complaining about the owners. You can't fire the owners - what's the point? The owners are who they are and they have no inclination of wanting to sell the team. They thought they were doing the right thing by bringing in an experienced head coach with ties to our glory years and teamed him with a young up and coming GM that had spent time in New England, an organization they've been trying to model after for awhile now.They don't know football, they're businessmen. They try to hire football guys. Sometimes they got it right (Dungy and Gruden), sometimes they got it wrong (everyone else). But other than the early Man U ownership years, its not like they aren't trying to win ballgames.I lived through Culverhouse. That's a guy who could care less whether this team won or lost as long as his check from the league cleared. He'd never put out the money the Glazers have to make this team better.At some point, the football guys got to coach and acquire the players they need to win.

      I feel ya bro....but at the end of the day.........the glazer boys ARE Culverhouse.  they are not their father........never will be.everything else is window curtains.  every old school bucs fan I know recognizes this.

      The Glazer boys ARE NOT Culverhouse. Not even close. If that were the case players would refuse to be drafted here and go play Baseball. The Glazer boys try to field a competitive team, Culverhouse never did.Problem with the Glazer Boys is they try to do the hiring of coaches when they should hire a VP of Football ops to do the hiring or hire a GM first.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      …..the glazer boys ARE Culverhouse.  they are not their father……..never will be.everything else is window curtains.  every old school bucs fan I know recognizes this.

      i dont buy this, not sure there is anything to support it.  what is similar of the glazer boys to culverhouse?  i think this is wrong on so many levels.if you want to simply say the glazer boys are poor at hiring head coaches and GMS, i wont argue.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      The Glazer boys ARE NOT Culverhouse. Not even close. If that were the case players would refuse to be drafted here and go play Baseball. The Glazer boys try to field a competitive team, Culverhouse never did.Problem with the Glazer Boys is they try to do the hiring of coaches when they should hire a VP of Football ops to do the hiring or hire a GM first.

      ha, beat me to it.

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      .....the glazer boys ARE Culverhouse.  they are not their father........never will be.everything else is window curtains.  every old school bucs fan I know recognizes this.

      i dont buy this, not sure there is anything to support it.  what is similar of the glazer boys to culverhouse?  i think this is wrong on so many levels.if you want to simply say the glazer boys are poor at hiring head coaches and GMS, i wont argue.

      they both milked their franchises.  Culverhouse did it intentionally........the glazer boys are just inept.as I said in another thread days ago.....it is my opinion Malcolm knew that too.....and it's why (in my opinion) he set his sons up with an nfl franchise......so they could still be the worst owners in the nfl and still make guaranteed money.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      The Glazer family is in charge of the franchise.  Meaning Malcom’s daughter is heavily involved as well along with the brothers which is why the public’s image of the franchise has turned around due to her efforts the last few years.http://www.buccaneers.com/news/article-1/Tampa-Bay-Celebrates-the-Launch-of-RED/d2187f94-ea17-4112-bfaf-70515911b085

      On Thursday, the Buccaneers held their launch party for the RED Women’s Movement at Raymond James Stadium in Tampa. Over 1,500 women attended the event.“This has been a vision of mine for so long," Buccaneers Family Foundation Co-President Darcie Glazer Kassewitz said Thursday night. "As a female voice in my family, it was so important for me to highlight that we have so many unbelievable female fans. I think the energy in this room tonight is tremendous.”

      I have been a vocal critic of how ownership has handled the brand and image of the Bucs franchise.  It felt like it was on auto pilot during the twilight of Gruden's career in Tampa and throughout Raheem's tenure.  Only after the new CBA have we seen some renewed interest in developing the franchise.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      they both milked their franchises.  Culverhouse did it intentionally……..the glazer boys are just inept.as I said in another thread days ago.....it is my opinion Malcolm knew that too.....and it's why (in my opinion) he set his sons up with an nfl franchise......so they could still be the worst owners in the nfl and still make guaranteed money.

      they milk the franchise by being inept?  not sure i buy that.  doesnt even make sense.  if they were milking, why these big contacts to david, mccoy, collins, johnson, jackson and down the line?  how much money did they have to personally invest?  and how much do you think they profit each year?  how does man u play into the milking?and you said the boys are different than their father - was he not milking the franchise?  when did the milking start?  its just odd to me that you claim the father bought a NFL franchise just so his sons could milk it.

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      The Glazer family is in charge of the franchise.  Meaning Malcom's daughter is heavily involved as well along with the brothers which is why the public's image of the franchise has turned around due to her efforts the last few years.http://www.buccaneers.com/news/article-1/Tampa-Bay-Celebrates-the-Launch-of-RED/d2187f94-ea17-4112-bfaf-70515911b085

      On Thursday, the Buccaneers held their launch party for the RED Women’s Movement at Raymond James Stadium in Tampa. Over 1,500 women attended the event.“This has been a vision of mine for so long," Buccaneers Family Foundation Co-President Darcie Glazer Kassewitz said Thursday night. "As a female voice in my family, it was so important for me to highlight that we have so many unbelievable female fans. I think the energy in this room tonight is tremendous.”

      I have been a vocal critic of how ownership has handled the brand and image of the Bucs franchise.  It felt like it was on auto pilot during the twilight of Gruden's career in Tampa and throughout Raheem's tenure.  Only after the new CBA have we seen some renewed interest in developing the franchise.

      a bar graph makes it obvious.........  note the purchase of the bucs by Malcolm....and chart (recorded wins) from there.........all the way (down) to current time.Malcolm was THE man.....the captain of the ship.  it is my opinion that:  this team is run by proxy..mom owns it still....the brothers (and the sister) "run" it.........and the glazer boys are either in over their head...or they simply have no interest in doing what they need to do.the glazer boys have one type of management skill..... staying out of things.....and firing who needs to be fired.  there are no management directives coming from them.  I think they are more hands on with the accounting and marketing dept.....and are scared to ruffle feathers on the football side of things......  after 15 plus years of this.......you can see the same pattern emerge.  I would love the glazers to sell the team.......or it will be 15 more years of this......and oh by the way......in 15 more years.......they can move the team.again......just my opinion........

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      are you saying that malcolm ruffled feathers on the football side?  was giving management directives?  how did he captain the ship?cmon.  its all made up stuff.

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      its just odd to me that you claim the father bought a NFL franchise just so his sons could milk it.

      really?  why?I know a local car dealer here in tampa bay who told me he did the exact same thing for his sons.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      GT, you are wasting your time. The Glazer family stuff is based on peoples feelings, intuitions, opinions. It’s a fact-free zone. Do people really think that Malcom Glazer was some super insightful football guy? Based on what? I keep people hearing say that Glazer hired Gruden, and yes, he was the owner - the buck stops here and all that. But the rumors at the time were that the Glazer sons balked at McKay's choices - Marvin Lewis and later Mooch.It was well-documented that Bryan and Joel Glazer were the ones who worked with Al Davis to get Gruden.

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      are you saying that malcolm ruffled feathers on the football side?  was giving management directives?  how did he captain the ship?cmon.  its all made up stuff.

      I'm saying Malcolm did not hide upstairs in his office......he came down......worked the jelly......and let staff know when he was happy...or pissed.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      I have silently watched and read the commentary the last few weeks.  I knew heading into the Titans game it would be a tough matchup for the Bucs.  It was obvious since the pre season the weaknesses the Bucs have are strengths for the Titans.Lovie and Licht may lose their job for not recognizing this was a rebuilding job starting last year.  This is one of the youngest teams in football and the Glazers should have hired a young offensive mind as the new HC.Defensive hires of Morris, Schiano and now Lovie have yielded results that have not produced an NFL average team yet.This team has the talent to reach 6-10.  But they lack a direction and they do not look prepared.  Morris had them looking on point year 1 but the wheels fell off by year three.  Schiano had them on point look prepared throughout his two years but the wheels fell off due to his own undoing.  Lovie currently has a team that hasn't looked prepared to play football thus far.Overall, I am taking a wait and see approach.

      Good post. I agree about rebuilding. The only way we can stop rebuilding is to draft well and to have some stability at the head coaching position. As many have said, this is where everyone looks to the Glazers because they pulled the trigger and fired Gruden, after having fired a HOF coach just before that. Raheem Morris, Greg Schiano and Lovie Smith. Three coaches in the last six years means we are perpetually rebuilding. And if you factor in all of the coordinators thatvwere also let go it all adds up to one thing.................the players have spent more time learning a new system than they have spent actually playing football over the last six years. AND on Sunday they looked like they were trying to figure out where they were supposed to be instead of flying to the ball. At this point I want to see what we do on defense for the remainder of the year. I am with you that we need to wait and see what happens before we start all over again.

      The last five years::Bucs have turned over their front office, coaching staffs (multiple times) and new scouts.It is going to take time for the scouts to find players that fit the system the Bucs run.  It is going to take time and  learning curve for Licht.  This is why Licht is going back to the well he knows from his days in the Patriot organization.1. Draft and develop2. Find gems to draft and develop3. Sign bargain free agents that fits the systems.Bucs drafts the last few years have yielded little because of massive system changes.  Barron is a good example of this as well as Foster.Bucs need stability and most importantly to build the lines.  Right now that is obvious to anyone that is the plan and most dire need of help.

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      Do people really think that Malcom Glazer was some super insightful football guy? Based on what?

      someone said that?  who?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      really?  why? I know a local car dealer here in tampa bay who told me he did the exact same thing for his sons.

      excellent comparison.    can you go a little further?  which dealership?  how does the sons in the car world compare to the glazer boys? 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      “Mr. Glazer bought the Buccaneers in 1995 from the estate of their owner, Hugh Culverhouse, for $192 million, a league record at the time. Tampa Bay was the league’s doormat, having made the playoffs only three times since its debut in 1976. But the team soon thrived with three of Mr. Glazers’s sons — Joel, Bryan and Edward — overseeing day-to-day activities as executive vice presidents.”http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/29/sports/malcolm-glazer-owner-of-buccaneers-and-manchester-united-is-dead-at-85.html?_r=0

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      I'm saying Malcolm did not hide upstairs in his office......he came down......worked the jelly......and let staff know when he was happy...or pissed.

      how often was malcom in his office at OBP?  how often are the glazers?  where are you getting your info that the glazer boys do not let staff know when expectations are not being met, or that they are unhappy with results?

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      I keep people hearing say that Glazer hired Gruden, and yes, he was the owner - the buck stops here and all that. But the rumors at the time were that the Glazer sons balked at McKay's choices - Marvin Lewis and later Mooch.It was well-documented that Bryan and Joel Glazer were the ones who worked with Al Davis to get Gruden.

      the glazer family was tight with al davis......  davis helped secure the bucs purchase by the glazers by assisting them with difficulties during the final negotiations of the stadium build.additionally........they both were both jewish.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Well that tells me all I need to know, Sacked.

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      "Mr. Glazer bought the Buccaneers in 1995 from the estate of their owner, Hugh Culverhouse, for $192 million, a league record at the time. Tampa Bay was the league’s doormat, having made the playoffs only three times since its debut in 1976. But the team soon thrived with three of Mr. Glazers’s sons — Joel, Bryan and Edward — overseeing day-to-day activities as executive vice presidents."http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/29/sports/malcolm-glazer-owner-of-buccaneers-and-manchester-united-is-dead-at-85.html?_r=0

      ed was nowhere around.  bryan and joel I remember well......they appeared at any club or group who would invite the to come and speak..and they spent a year doing that....I always respected them for that......

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      really?  why? I know a local car dealer here in tampa bay who told me he did the exact same thing for his sons.

      excellent comparison.    can you go a little further?  which dealership?  how does the sons in the car world compare to the glazer boys?

      it's my way of telling you........take the story you understand......and blow it up 1000 fold.....so you can also understand the story........that you are pretending not to understand.understand?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      it’s my way of telling you……..take the story you understand……and blow it up 1000 fold…..so you can also understand the story……..that you are pretending not to understand.understand?

      i understand that you keep throwing stuff against the wall in hopes it will stick.

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      it's my way of telling you........take the story you understand......and blow it up 1000 fold.....so you can also understand the story........that you are pretending not to understand.understand?

      i understand that you keep throwing stuff against the wall in hopes it will stick.

      here's the great part about our discussion boys........the facts are on my side.the glazer boys are the ONLY constant player still around from these last 15 years.  everyone else is gone.  the coach and gm door swings and swings.......yet......we are still at the same point.......if not worse.that categorically proves I'm right. it's solely and completely on the glazer boys. today...the education is free.

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      Well that tells me all I need to know, Sacked.

      it's a cool story.Malcolm and Al were talking during the issues the glazers were having securing the team.  the cost of the stadium was too much....and the TBSA was balking...but the glazers kept insisting they needed a new stadium.  it was Davis who came up with the idea of not building out one of the endzones.....and thereby saving a few million for the TBSA.  He suggested they build a park in the endzone.....and later on.......they could always build it out.  it saved the deal......it came within the budget constraints of the "The Community Investment Tax"...and bingo.....it got them the Bucs.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Wow, real enlightening. Of course nobody disagreed that it's on them, but hey - feel free to pat yourself on the back.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      it's my way of telling you........take the story you understand......and blow it up 1000 fold.....so you can also understand the story........that you are pretending not to understand.understand?

      i understand that you keep throwing stuff against the wall in hopes it will stick.

      here's the great part about our discussion boys........the facts are on my side.the glazer boys are the ONLY constant player still around from these last 15 years.  everyone else is gone.  the coach and gm door swings and swings.......yet......we are still at the same point.......if not worse.that categorically proves I'm right. it's solely and completely on the glazer boys. today...the education is free.

      I guess its true you get what you pay for. And why not just say it......Walker........Walker Ford.

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      "Of course nobody disagreed that it's on them, but hey - feel free to pat yourself on the back."your thinking is once again, flawed.  I can point to no less that ten threads where I said the same thing.......and there was wide spread dissent.  I'd show you the threads......but I'd much rather you work for it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      you are trying to make the claim that the glazer boys ARE culverhouse and this is your reasoning?

      here's the great part about our discussion boys........the facts are on my side.the glazer boys are the ONLY constant player still around from these last 15 years.  everyone else is gone.  the coach and gm door swings and swings.......yet......we are still at the same point.......if not worse.that categorically proves I'm right. it's solely and completely on the glazer boys. today...the education is free.

      because they are still owners?

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      you are trying to make the claim that the glazer boys ARE culverhouse and this is your reasoning?

      here's the great part about our discussion boys........the facts are on my side.the glazer boys are the ONLY constant player still around from these last 15 years.  everyone else is gone.  the coach and gm door swings and swings.......yet......we are still at the same point.......if not worse.that categorically proves I'm right. it's solely and completely on the glazer boys. today...the education is free.

      because they are still owners?

      it makes them no less culpable.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      it makes them no less culpable.

      culpable of the same things as culverhouse?  really?

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      it makes them no less culpable.

      culpable of the same things as culverhouse?  really?

      you said that........not me

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      it makes them no less culpable.

      culpable of the same things as culverhouse?  really?

      you said that........not me

      mine was a question, because your statement is out of place, has no context within the discussion.what are they culpable of that correlates to culverhouse?

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      what are they culpable of that correlates to culverhouse?

      reading is fundamental:ME:  "here's the great part about our discussion boys........the facts are on my side.the glazer boys are the ONLY constant player still around from these last 15 years.  everyone else is gone.  the coach and gm door swings and swings.......yet......we are still at the same point.......if not worse.  that categorically proves I'm right. it's solely and completely on the glazer boys. today...the education is free."YOU:  "because they are still owners?"ME:  "it makes them no less culpable"you actually took things out of context......which you do often.....and it's never worked for you.you asked me a direct question about the glazers.......I answered your question directly about the glazers.if you have a question about Culverhouse......... by all means ask.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8983

      However you guys want to argue it, nothing has worked.Sbs makes a good point about it being the glazers, as they are the last link, and its visable for all to see.Some would say its bad drafting, but you also would think a few would shine, more than they have. Even mccoy and david's stock takes a hit under lovie's scheme.Im not sold as to what it is, really, but i have my sneaking suspicions it comes from the top, down.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5572

      it makes them no less culpable.

      culpable of the same things as culverhouse?  really?

      you said that........not me

      mine was a question, because your statement is out of place, has no context within the discussion.what are they culpable of that correlates to culverhouse?

      GT, he's not worth it. He'll just keep making shit up. He's like Runole but dumber.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Sbs makes a good point about it being the glazers, as they are the last link, and its visable for all to see.

      the glazers can be unsuccessful in putting out franchise wins recently and also not be anything comparable to culverhouse.i am attempting to find out why sbs thinks the "glazer boys ARE culverhouse".

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Failure to draft defensive and offensive linemen has caused the Bucs to be in a sorry state.Sure the Bucs did draft Trueblood, Zuttah, Joseph, Adams, Bowers, McCoy Clayborn, etc.  But over a decade that isn't enough.1. As we have seen half of them have not worked out.2. It is a numbers game.  You need a unit of defensive lineman and offensive linemen to have a team function.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      Back to the original post. I agree the Buccaneers are rebuilding. Even if they haven’t sold this team as doing so, they are. The Buccaneers ARE the youngest team in the NFL. But there is better talent on this team than the 2-15 St. Lovie has coached down so far. Fans can accept rebuilding if there are signs of progress. So far thete have been NO such signs and the blowout last Sunday got just the reception from fans St. Lovie's Buccaneers deserve.Certainly St. Lovie was not the right hire to rebuild a locker room door, nevermind and NFL team but it seems we are stuck with him for the forseeable future.I really want to see some progress made. Like a defense being ready to play and understanding their assignments. And I'm certainly not giving up on Jameis Winston who will get planty of opportunities this season to learn and grow into the QB I thnk he can become.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Failure to draft defensive and offensive linemen has caused the Bucs to be in a sorry state.Sure the Bucs did draft Trueblood, Zuttah, Joseph, Adams, Bowers, McCoy Clayborn, etc.  But over a decade that isn't enough.1. As we have seen half of them have not worked out.2. It is a numbers game.  You need a unit of defensive lineman and offensive linemen to have a team function.

      I can't agree with you on DL. We've picked a lot - since 2007, we've used 4 top 40 picks on DL (including 2 the top 5), and 7 in the top 100. Just haven't picked the right guys. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      what are they culpable of that correlates to culverhouse?

      reading is fundamental:ME:  "here's the great part about our discussion boys........the facts are on my side.the glazer boys are the ONLY constant player still around from these last 15 years.  everyone else is gone.  the coach and gm door swings and swings.......yet......we are still at the same point.......if not worse.  that categorically proves I'm right. it's solely and completely on the glazer boys. today...the education is free."YOU:  "because they are still owners?"ME:  "it makes them no less culpable"you actually took things out of context......which you do often.....and it's never worked for you.you asked me a direct question about the glazers.......I answered your question directly about the glazers.if you have a question about Culverhouse......... by all means ask.

      BucsWTF, you are a crazy SOB man. I mean, clinical. Anyone who interacts with this loon is playing with JPP fireworks.

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    • meadorsp

      Participant
      Post count: 200

      what are they culpable of that correlates to culverhouse?

      reading is fundamental:ME:  "here's the great part about our discussion boys........the facts are on my side.the glazer boys are the ONLY constant player still around from these last 15 years.  everyone else is gone.  the coach and gm door swings and swings.......yet......we are still at the same point.......if not worse.  that categorically proves I'm right. it's solely and completely on the glazer boys. today...the education is free."YOU:  "because they are still owners?"ME:  "it makes them no less culpable"you actually took things out of context......which you do often.....and it's never worked for you.you asked me a direct question about the glazers.......I answered your question directly about the glazers.if you have a question about Culverhouse......... by all means ask.

      BucsWTF, you are a crazy SOB man. I mean, clinical. Anyone who interacts with this loon is playing with JPP fireworks.

      Swing.................  And a MISS...!I keep tellin' ya SBS is not FTW.  Get it BOOF?  I know that dude. Personally. You're barking up the wrong tree.  Didn't you get the email?

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    • meadorsp

      Participant
      Post count: 200

      what are they culpable of that correlates to culverhouse?

      reading is fundamental:ME:  "here's the great part about our discussion boys........the facts are on my side.the glazer boys are the ONLY constant player still around from these last 15 years.  everyone else is gone.  the coach and gm door swings and swings.......yet......we are still at the same point.......if not worse.  that categorically proves I'm right. it's solely and completely on the glazer boys. today...the education is free."YOU:  "because they are still owners?"ME:  "it makes them no less culpable"you actually took things out of context......which you do often.....and it's never worked for you.you asked me a direct question about the glazers.......I answered your question directly about the glazers.if you have a question about Culverhouse......... by all means ask.

      When you take out all the snarkiness of it...  When you look at the message, and not the delivery of it.  I have to agree with SBS.You have to ask yourself a few questions.#1 - Where are the Bucs currently ranked in their player payroll expenditures?#2 - Where have the Bucs always been ranked in their player payroll expenditures?#3 - Have the Bucs ever had a "football guy", alá a John Elway, that they turned football operations over to, who then when out and hired a GM and their coaching staff?#4 - Were the Bucs playing it safe with the St. Lovie hire, as opposed to a progressive hire like a Chip Kelly type?#5 - Now that St. Lovie is running the defensive side of the ball...  Are you pleased with the horse shít he trotted out there last week?#5a - What the Marshall Faulk is Leslie Frazier in charge of now?#6 - Given the entire preseason to prepare his team for he should have known would set the tone, for both the Bucs and the inevitable Winston/Mariotta comparisons to follow...  How well coached did the team look in their season debut?#7 - Knowing it resets the clock to zero hour, do you think it would be better to either fire St. Lovie at the 0-4 / 0-5 mark, or...  Let him coach out the season, giving the Bucs far better options from the coaches that are currently unapproachable during the season?Fact is...  The current ownership IS just as bad, if not worse than the Culverhouses ever dreamt of being.  Financial support on an "as-required", i.e. cap minimums, basis.  Owners who are "silent partner" types that you don't see handing out towels to the players after a big win, or on the sidelines shaking the hands of players.  Just very low profile types.I want owners with egos.  Dan Snyder/Jerry Jones types that will actually over spend, knowing full well they will pay exorbitant penalties in the process.  Hold the circus and fanfare please.

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      what are they culpable of that correlates to culverhouse?

      reading is fundamental:ME:  "here's the great part about our discussion boys........the facts are on my side.the glazer boys are the ONLY constant player still around from these last 15 years.  everyone else is gone.  the coach and gm door swings and swings.......yet......we are still at the same point.......if not worse.  that categorically proves I'm right. it's solely and completely on the glazer boys. today...the education is free."YOU:  "because they are still owners?"ME:  "it makes them no less culpable"you actually took things out of context......which you do often.....and it's never worked for you.you asked me a direct question about the glazers.......I answered your question directly about the glazers.if you have a question about Culverhouse......... by all means ask.

      When you take out all the snarkiness of it...  When you look at the message, and not the delivery of it.  I have to agree with SBS.You have to ask yourself a few questions.#1 - Where are the Bucs currently ranked in their player payroll expenditures?#2 - Where have the Bucs always been ranked in their player payroll expenditures?#3 - Have the Bucs ever had a "football guy", alá a John Elway, that they turned football operations over to, who then when out and hired a GM and their coaching staff?#4 - Were the Bucs playing it safe with the St. Lovie hire, as opposed to a progressive hire like a Chip Kelly type?#5 - Now that St. Lovie is running the defensive side of the ball...  Are you pleased with the horse shít he trotted out there last week?#5a - What the Marshall Faulk is Leslie Frazier in charge of now?#6 - Given the entire preseason to prepare his team for he should have known would set the tone, for both the Bucs and the inevitable Winston/Mariotta comparisons to follow...  How well coached did the team look in their season debut?#7 - Knowing it resets the clock to zero hour, do you think it would be better to either fire St. Lovie at the 0-4 / 0-5 mark, or...  Let him coach out the season, giving the Bucs far better options from the coaches that are currently unapproachable during the season?Fact is...  The current ownership IS just as bad, if not worse than the Culverhouses ever dreamt of being.  Financial support on an "as-required", i.e. cap minimums, basis.  Owners who are "silent partner" types that you don't see handing out towels to the players after a big win, or on the sidelines shaking the hands of players.  Just very low profile types.I want owners with egos.  Dan Snyder/Jerry Jones types that will actually over spend, knowing full well they will pay exorbitant penalties in the process.  Hold the circus and fanfare please.

      add Butch Davis to the list.......still trying to figure out what the glazer boys were thinking...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      #1 - Where are the Bucs currently ranked in their player payroll expenditures?#2 - Where have the Bucs always been ranked in their player payroll expenditures?#3 - Have the Bucs ever had a "football guy", alá a John Elway, that they turned football operations over to, who then when out and hired a GM and their coaching staff?#4 - Were the Bucs playing it safe with the St. Lovie hire, as opposed to a progressive hire like a Chip Kelly type?#5 - Now that St. Lovie is running the defensive side of the ball...  Are you pleased with the horse shít he trotted out there last week?#5a - What the Marshall Faulk is Leslie Frazier in charge of now?#6 - Given the entire preseason to prepare his team for he should have known would set the tone, for both the Bucs and the inevitable Winston/Mariotta comparisons to follow...  How well coached did the team look in their season debut?#7 - Knowing it resets the clock to zero hour, do you think it would be better to either fire St. Lovie at the 0-4 / 0-5 mark, or...  Let him coach out the season, giving the Bucs far better options from the coaches that are currently unapproachable during the season?

      1. – do you have this info?2.  do you have this info?3.  is jim elway a football guy?  he was a player, completely different than a FO guy imo.  doesnt mean he cant do it, but playing and being in the FO are completely different things.  whats elways claim to fame?  signing manning?4.  the Bucs attempted to hire chip kelly as far as ive read.5.  i dont see how our performance last week means the "glazer boys ARE culverhouse".6.  i dont see how our performance last week means the "glazer boys ARE culverhouse".7.  another completely separate arguement which is playing a what if game.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      I want owners with egos.  Dan Snyder/Jerry Jones types that will actually over spend, knowing full well they will pay exorbitant penalties in the process.  Hold the circus and fanfare please.

      does the NFL have a luxury tax?  what penalties are you referring to?  and how many playoff wins do snyder and jones have since our last SB win?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Bucs are not rebuilding. They’re not getting rid of overpaid veterans, they’re not acquiring draft picks. They’re just doing dumb things and losing. There’s a difference. I don’t see a long term plan, I see a bunch of bad decisions rolling into eachother.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Sbs makes a good point about it being the glazers, as they are the last link, and its visable for all to see.

      the glazers can be unsuccessful in putting out franchise wins recently and also not be anything comparable to culverhouse.i am attempting to find out why sbs thinks the "glazer boys ARE culverhouse".

      Outside of the superbowl, what makes them a whole lot different? They arent culverhouse, but they are of a similar mold. Neither wanted to spend, and its been pretty obvious.Sometimes i feel as if this team is worse than those days. So then again, idk if you can compare.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Outside of the superbowl, what makes them a whole lot different? They arent culverhouse, but they are of a similar mold. Neither wanted to spend, and its been pretty obvious.  Sometimes i feel as if this team is worse than those days. So then again, idk if you can compare.

      im not sure how folks can say we havent been spending.  how do you feel the team is worse now?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Outside of the superbowl, what makes them a whole lot different? They arent culverhouse, but they are of a similar mold. Neither wanted to spend, and its been pretty obvious.  Sometimes i feel as if this team is worse than those days. So then again, idk if you can compare.

      im not sure how folks can say we havent been spending.  how do you feel the team is worse now?

      Like many owners the Glazer's have made bad decisions.  They fired Gruden and Allen after making them exist on  beer barrel budget and hired cheap nincompoops Tweedle Rah and Tweedle Dumb who they gave more ability to spend money. Idiots running the asylum. Realizing their mistake they tried the CFB route and hired Shiano who they also opened the Check books. Shiano again was a mistake as CFB coaches seldom pan out.  Back to square one with the hire of Smith who they out bid other teams.Smith so far has made several personnel decisions that have been bad and the Tedford experiment was another abysmal failure. Not ready after just one season to start over again.  The Bucs are rebuilding so expectations must be tempered.A knee jerk response is premature at this time but that is the nature of the NFL. Reactive seldom is as successful as proactive.  The end of the season a proper evaluation can be made even though many troubling issues were apparent in the first game.I still don't know why the Bucs haven't tried to acquire a short yardage back?Yes they need OL help.  Those are hard to find.  Could use a proven DE.  Culverhouse was always cheap.  The Glazer's  For the most part except during the Gruden tenure could not be accused of being cheap.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2436

      If the current HC spent time fixing the previous HC’s personel… who fixed the previous regime… who fixed the previous regime…....WE SHOULD HAVE A ROLLS ROYCE by now!!!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      If the current HC spent time fixing the previous HC's personel... who fixed the previous regime... who fixed the previous regime.......WE SHOULD HAVE A ROLLS ROYCE by now!!!

      Each of those prior HCs was fired because their "fix" didn't work and in some cases the "fix" set the team further back (eg Mark Barron) so as usual your Tourette's-like post misses the mark. ;-)

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