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    • Mark Cook

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    • Anonymous

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      I would think they would love to have him back, just not for crazy money. So he may shop around a bit, and end up resigning here hopefully.

    • farzillo

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      Post count: 548

      I would think they would love to have him back, just not for crazy money. So he may shop around a bit, and end up resigning here hopefully.

      If he tests the market, he's not coming back. There's too much cap space available and he's easily the best free agent running back.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 10626

      I would think they would love to have him back, just not for crazy money. So he may shop around a bit, and end up resigning here hopefully.

      If he tests the market, he's not coming back. There's too much cap space available and he's easily the best free agent running back.

      I wouldn't shed any tears if that happened, TBH

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1335

      We screwed ourselves declining his 5th year option. Bye Doug.Hopefully we land Miller.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9276

      I would think they would love to have him back, just not for crazy money. So he may shop around a bit, and end up resigning here hopefully.

      If he tests the market, he's not coming back. There's too much cap space available and he's easily the best free agent running back.

      I wouldn't shed any tears if that happened, TBH

      not until the season starts

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 10626

      I would think they would love to have him back, just not for crazy money. So he may shop around a bit, and end up resigning here hopefully.

      If he tests the market, he's not coming back. There's too much cap space available and he's easily the best free agent running back.

      I wouldn't shed any tears if that happened, TBH

      not until the season starts

      I know how you feel on this subject bro. But I have faith in Chuck.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8983

      This would really become a b#tch if tampa cannot sign anyone else, or, they just take to long waiting on doug, they also miss out on miller(and doug).In THAT world... I'm fuggin' drafting elliot. Screw it.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8983

      Also, why does the bucs have to be the training ground for future superbowl winners?If martin isn't re-signed it doesnt bode well for koetters start here in tampa. Thats how isht got started with lovie.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 10626

      Also, why does the bucs have to be the training ground for future superbowl winners?If martin isn't re-signed it doesnt bode well for koetters start here in tampa. Thats how isht got started with lovie.

      Your assuming he is mission essential, I don't think he is.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2560

      Also, why does the bucs have to be the training ground for future superbowl winners?If martin isn't re-signed it doesnt bode well for koetters start here in tampa. Thats how isht got started with lovie.

      Yeah it’s not a good omen, is it?

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9276

      I know how you feel on this subject bro. But I have faith in Chuck.

      what have you seen from Chuck that inspires faith in him being an every down back?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Also, why does the bucs have to be the training ground for future superbowl winners?If martin isn't re-signed it doesnt bode well for koetters start here in tampa. Thats how isht got started with lovie.

      Your assuming he is mission essential, I don't think he is.

      It's NOT that i believe that someone cannot come here and produce the same, or better. NOT going to say that.However. From a position i know a LOT about, i can tell you, there IS indeed a "fit." You can have two guys of equal talents, and they arent just going to play exactly the same behind the same line. That is ludicrous thinking.Yes, it is a easier fix than some positions, sure, but, as always, the pieces have to fit regardless.One hesitation, one turn of the head, a slight inability to hold a block(RIP blount), a unthinking studder-step, one extra second overthinking, a slight change of anything can tweak it for worse, or maybe, ironically, even better.So, I'm NOT saying someone else can't do the job, I'm just saying we KNOW martin can. Anything else is a hopeful guesstimate. Sims looked alright in a limited role, and elliot is right there to be taken, so its not like they're hurting either way really.My only knock on martin is that he doesn't have that extra gear. Thats ok though, as long as the chains keep moving, and he helps winston. ...idgaf what his beef is.Martin INDEED had more help this past season, but that doesnt necessarily mean it's all on them. After all, winston was still hit, from what i remember, comparatively a lot. They aren't fully formed or "gelled" yet, so its understandable.I'd say the entire group is better atm at runblocking than pass protection, but its still a horse vs carrage argument when you include martin.If tampa was hurting for cap, and the league wasn't INCREASING capspace yearly along with MAKING owners spend, i could understand letting him walk.Tampa has like what.., fifty million(?), has sucked for over a decade, talked on and on about how much cap and young players they have, and yet... they cant re-sign one of their top five players in one given year? Gtfoh.Again, this doesn't bode well for koetter's start. Bad juju. Bad start. Hopefully, their reasonings are good, should they just let him walk. The "we can get someone else to do this job cheaper" answer, isnt even an answer. Its a rebuild. A project. A restart. We don't know what will come of it.People on here preached "contenuity" when discussing bad coaches, ..but yet, for some odd ass reason, a player balls the hell out and we're supposed to let him walk?I call bullspit on that. Thats the type of thinking that has tampa's players taken from them by other teams, and they go win superbowls. Tampa is the freaking babysitters of future superbowl winners. Yay.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Also, why does the bucs have to be the training ground for future superbowl winners?If martin isn't re-signed it doesnt bode well for koetters start here in tampa. Thats how isht got started with lovie.

      Your assuming he is mission essential, I don't think he is.

      It's NOT that i believe that someone cannot come here and produce the same, or better. NOT going to say that.However. From a position i know a LOT about, i can tell you, there IS indeed a "fit." You can have two guys of equal talents, and they arent just going to play exactly the same behind the same line. That is ludicrous thinking.Yes, it is a easier fix than some positions, sure, but, as always, the pieces have to fit regardless.One hesitation, one turn of the head, a slight inability to hold a block(RIP blount), a unthinking studder-step, one extra second overthinking, a slight change of anything can tweak it for worse, or maybe, ironically, even better.So, I'm NOT saying someone else can't do the job, I'm just saying we KNOW martin can. Anything else is a hopeful guesstimate. Sims looked alright in a limited role, and elliot is right there to be taken, so its not like they're hurting either way really.My only knock on martin is that he doesn't have that extra gear. Thats ok though, as long as the chains keep moving, and he helps winston. ...idgaf what his beef is.Martin INDEED had more help this past season, but that doesnt necessarily mean it's all on them. After all, winston was still hit, from what i remember, comparatively a lot. They aren't fully formed or "gelled" yet, so its understandable.I'd say the entire group is better atm at runblocking than pass protection, but its still a horse vs carrage argument when you include martin.If tampa was hurting for cap, and the league wasn't INCREASING capspace yearly along with MAKING owners spend, i could understand letting him walk.Tampa has like what.., fifty million(?), has sucked for over a decade, talked on and on about how much cap and young players they have, and yet... they cant re-sign one of their top five players in one given year? Gtfoh.Again, this doesn't bode well for koetter's start. Bad juju. Bad start. Hopefully, their reasonings are good, should they just let him walk. The "we can get someone else to do this job cheaper" answer, isnt even an answer. Its a rebuild. A project. A restart. We don't know what will come of it.People on here preached "contenuity" when discussing bad coaches, ..but yet, for some odd ass reason, a player balls the hell out and we're supposed to let him walk?I call bullspit on that. Thats the type of thinking that has tampa's players taken from them by other teams, and they go win superbowls. Tampa is the freaking babysitters of future superbowl winners. Yay.

      All good points Bench, you are a rational dude. I just think there are better options than paying a 27 year old RB big money, when he has 4000 yards on the odometer, and a bit of an injury history.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2560

      It’s a bad PR move unless they land two defensive studs in FA and 3 more in the draft. Otherwise we look like a team running in place.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 10626

      It's a bad PR move unless they land two defensive studs in FA and 3 more in the draft. Otherwise we look like a team running in place.

      Assuming Chuck can do the same job, its a net gain.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3420

      They should have transition tagged him, so we would have the right to match. Maybe they have a side agreement to allow us a chance to match. We do have the no state income tax thing going for us. Matching might really give Doug more money.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3420

      It's a bad PR move unless they land two defensive studs in FA and 3 more in the draft. Otherwise we look like a team running in place.

      Assuming Chuck can do the same job, its a net gain.

      He was okay in spot duty, but I'm not sure he can be a every down back.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      They should have transition tagged him, so we would have the right to match. Maybe they have a side agreement to allow us a chance to match. We do have the no state income tax thing going for us. Matching might really give Doug more money.

      Agree on the tag B. But not exercising that, looks like they are ok with letting him walk.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      They should have transition tagged him, so we would have the right to match. Maybe they have a side agreement to allow us a chance to match. We do have the no state income tax thing going for us. Matching might really give Doug more money.

      Agree on the tag B. But not exercising that, looks like they are ok with letting him walk.

      What else is new? Bucs Life.  :(

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      They should have transition tagged him, so we would have the right to match. Maybe they have a side agreement to allow us a chance to match. We do have the no state income tax thing going for us. Matching might really give Doug more money.

      Agree on the tag B. But not exercising that, looks like they are ok with letting him walk.

      What else is new? Bucs Life.  :(

      HATE and I go back and forth on this subject. Just for the record, I love The Dougernaut. But I wouldn't want to commit to as long term deal. Too many miles on the odometer.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 898

      We could always draft another running back.  Lev Bell was a 2nd rounder two years ago.  David Johnson was a third.  We could grab Kenneth Dixon or Paul Perkins probably in the 3rd.  Daniel Lasco maybe in the 4th.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 10626

      We could always draft another running back.  Lev Bell was a 2nd rounder two years ago.  David Johnson was a third.  We could grab Kenneth Dixon or Paul Perkins probably in the 3rd.  Daniel Lasco maybe in the 4th.

      All good choices, but I think they roll with Chuck. And save those picks for D upgrades.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1335

      I was Sims biggest supporter when we drafted him… but there ain’t no way he can grind out yards better than Martin. Can he be a feature back? Maybe.. but you can’t run inside run plays as much if you want to make him your workhorse. Sims cannot cut like Martin in small spaces, nor can he make the first man miss before hitting the hole..it’s gonna be a very ugly TFL. Martin made it a routine making the first man miss last year, the offense will go backwards if we lose that. He bailed out the oline a bunch of times each game...he was our MVP last year hands down... He was the nucleus of our offense, not Jameis. Martin was carrying the team for most of the year, ONLY elite players can do that.I wanted Doug traded after his 2 bad years, but I really think we should keep him but don't see it stacking up that way.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2967

      With Jameis coming into his most important season, I don’t get why you’d screw with offensive chemistry.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2560

      With Jameis coming into his most important season, I don't get why you'd screw with offensive chemistry.

      Exactly. Keep Koetter for offensive continuity but ignore continuity when it comes to your Pro Bowl back? On the surface it doesn’t seem like Jason knows what he is doing. It looks like the Revis Fiasco 2.0 (quantity over quality).

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      We screwed ourselves declining his 5th year option. Bye Doug.

      possibly in the present.  But if Doug is worth a huge deal, his option would have only bought us one more season

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1271

      Making room for Ezekiel Elliott : )

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1550

      Look at the highest paid running backs in the league.Adrian Peterson – EliteMarshawn Lynch – Good, but now retiredArian Foster – Bust (injured)Lesean McCoy – Bust (injured and ineffective)DeMarcon Murray – Bust (ineffective)Matt Forte – Good, solid backJohnathan Stewart – Okay (often injured)Jamal Charles – Injured way too often but good when healthyWho were the leading rushers in the league this past year?APDoug Martin (playing in his contract year)Gurley (a rookie)Darren McFadden (a retread on a low contract)Chris Ivory (a retread on a low contract)Latavious Murray (young no-name back)Devonte Freeman (a young back in his 2nd or 3rd yr)You don’t overpay for running backs. Period. I don’t care if the Bucs have 100 million in cap space, it’s utterly stupid to overpay for a running back – especially one that has a history of not staying healthy.You simply can’t do it.

    • CapnFear

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      Post count: 262

      I’m lukewarm on the subject.  Part of me says let him walk and test the market, if someone is willing to overpay for someone that has had 2 productive years and 2 injury years then more power to them.  The other part of me says that they should have at least restricted him so that we have the chance to match or get compensation.  If he does walk, then I see Elliott being in play at 9.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4140

      It takes two to tango…I'm certain Martin/Agent wanted to test the market.No bad blood here, both have publicly said they see a future.Logically, one can realistically deduce that it went down like this...DM - I want to be a Buc but I want to get best deal I can, my last contract in the league...JL - We want you to be a Buc, go out and see what the market will pay and we'll match it.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1271

      I'm lukewarm on the subject.  Part of me says let him walk and test the market, if someone is willing to overpay for someone that has had 2 productive years and 2 injury years then more power to them.  The other part of me says that they should have at least restricted him so that we have the chance to match or get compensation.  If he does walk, then I see Elliott being in play at 9.

      I think Doug is a very good back, and the injuries I take with a grain of salt because he was in tough situations with bad coaching both of those injury years. I'm all for drafting, even trading up for, Elliott. The board thinks I'm crazy, but Elliott is the biggest difference maker for his college team in this draft. He carried that team in a lot of ways to a national championship, and is just a winner. We got that guy last year in Winston. We can get that guy again this year in Elliott. If we don't land Elliott, even Alex Collins, who is going to drop after his combine, has some things he does better than Doug. The biggest issue I have with Doug isn't the long speed, it's that he just isn't that effective in the passing game, which makes you predictable. That's nitpicking when you consider the production Martin can put out, but it's not crazy to say we can get some young guys in this draft much cheaper than Martin and possibly get an increase in production from our backs.

    • rpratto

      Participant
      Post count: 347

      Guys, stop acting like the world is coming to an end if Martin walks.  There is a plethora of free agnet RBs out there and the Bucs will easily find someone to take his place.  And if that fails, both Leonard Fournette and Dalvin Cook will be in the draft next year.  This team is going to be fine at RB

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1176

      It takes two to tango...I'm certain Martin/Agent wanted to test the market.No bad blood here, both have publicly said they see a future.Logically, one can realistically deduce that it went down like this...DM - I want to be a Buc but I want to get best deal I can, my last contract in the league...JL - We want you to be a Buc, go out and see what the market will pay and we'll match it.

      Jason and Martin's agent have a good working relationship if this is the case. I can see a handshake deal. The only problem with a handshake deal is it cost us a really good kicker once upon a time.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2000

      We could always draft another running back.  Lev Bell was a 2nd rounder two years ago.  David Johnson was a third.  We could grab Kenneth Dixon or Paul Perkins probably in the 3rd.  Daniel Lasco maybe in the 4th.

      All good choices, but I think they roll with Chuck. And save those picks for D upgrades.

      Licht has been quoted recently as the Bucs not wanting to roll with Chuck as an everydowner so I expect, should Martin walk, for them to fill via FA or pick. I would prefer the FA route over the pick.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2967

      Look at the highest paid running backs in the league.Adrian Peterson – EliteMarshawn Lynch – Good, but now retiredArian Foster – Bust (injured)Lesean McCoy – Bust (injured and ineffective)DeMarcon Murray – Bust (ineffective)Matt Forte – Good, solid backJohnathan Stewart – Okay (often injured)Jamal Charles – Injured way too often but good when healthyWho were the leading rushers in the league this past year?APDoug Martin (playing in his contract year)Gurley (a rookie)Darren McFadden (a retread on a low contract)Chris Ivory (a retread on a low contract)Latavious Murray (young no-name back)Devonte Freeman (a young back in his 2nd or 3rd yr)You don’t overpay for running backs. Period. I don’t care if the Bucs have 100 million in cap space, it’s utterly stupid to overpay for a running back – especially one that has a history of not staying healthy.You simply can’t do it.

      Not the whole story unless you include this:Adrian Peterson – Age 30 season coming up, 7.75 million in 2016, top back in the leagueMarshawn Lynch – Would've been his age 29 season, 9 million cap hit, lots of mileageArian Foster – Entering his age 29 season,8.7 million cap hit, often injured, last year (5) of his contractLesean McCoy – Entering his age 27 season, 7.7 million cap hit, injured last two seasonsDeMarcon Murray – Entering his age 28 season, 8 million cap hit, offense was a mess in 15.Matt Forte – Entering his age 30 season, UFA, still very good, finished a 4-year contractJohnathan Stewart – Entering his age 28 season, 9.5 million cap hit, last year (5) of his contractJamal Charles – Entering his age 29 season, 5.3 million cap hit....good contractThere are good contracts and bad contracts. Murray and McCoy are on new contracts and making waaaaaay too much for their production. Peterson, Lynch, Forte and Charles all had pretty good return on investment as they still produced (when healthy) through or nearly to the end of their contracts. Foster and Stewart have been plagued by injury. It's a crapshoot but not all bad.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4140

      Problem with comparisons is there are just WAY too many variables for any of it to stick and make logical sense IMO. It’s a fail before it’s ever started (too subjective).

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1875

      Look at the highest paid running backs in the league.Adrian Peterson – EliteMarshawn Lynch – Good, but now retiredArian Foster – Bust (injured)Lesean McCoy – Bust (injured and ineffective)DeMarcon Murray – Bust (ineffective)Matt Forte – Good, solid backJohnathan Stewart – Okay (often injured)Jamal Charles – Injured way too often but good when healthyWho were the leading rushers in the league this past year?APDoug Martin (playing in his contract year)Gurley (a rookie)Darren McFadden (a retread on a low contract)Chris Ivory (a retread on a low contract)Latavious Murray (young no-name back)Devonte Freeman (a young back in his 2nd or 3rd yr)You don’t overpay for running backs. Period. I don’t care if the Bucs have 100 million in cap space, it’s utterly stupid to overpay for a running back – especially one that has a history of not staying healthy.You simply can’t do it.

      I would agree, if the current player costs were an issue.  Buccaneers have more than enough space to spend freely with the room they have.  Not unusual... but I won't digress.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      I would agree, if the current player costs were an issue. 

      Player costs are always an issue. Previous posts indicate that there is potentially greater risk with a RB at the top of the salary food chain for underlying reasons.....in a lot of cases health....which Martin has already had 2 of 4 years significantly affected.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9276

      Problem with comparisons is there are just WAY too many variables for any of it to stick and make logical sense IMO. It's a fail before it's ever started (too subjective).

      completely agree!!

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 814

      In most cases with draft picks, there is lower cost certainty than FAs…unless Jacquizz Rodgers is the replacement, hypothetically.If Licht is truly looking big picture (3-4 years), cost certainty plays a huge role...IMO

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2829

      This is one of the most botched contract situations by the Bucs in awhile. There was no reason not to tag him and then work out a long term deal with the first two years containing guaranteed base salaries. He's a very good player, no off-field issues and we have more cap space than we know what to do with. Licht has been more than willing to pay outsiders like Michael Johnson and Logan Mankins and EDS bank, but won't tag a homegrown player that actually deserves the money.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8983

      With Jameis coming into his most important season, I don't get why you'd screw with offensive chemistry.

      Exactly. Keep Koetter for offensive continuity but ignore continuity when it comes to your Pro Bowl back? On the surface it doesn't seem like Jason knows what he is doing. It looks like the Revis Fiasco 2.0 (quantity over quality).

      Someone needs to send a memo to licht, and tell him the bucs don't cheat (as evident by decade w/L record).Being from the pats, he probably has a devalued view on runningbacks. They had/have a darn good qb and line too, along with the unbelievable record of rbs NOT fumbling, no matter who they are.I seriously doubt tampa can get that same luck/advantage. Asking any rb to come in and do what martin did, is asking much too much. Imvho, its a HUGE assumption that A) the market will dictate his value, then they pay him, and B) the next guy could do the same.Sounds to me like martin wanted to cash in, and licht said there was nooo-way. Sick of this team having money and not spending it on players who deserve it. Especially when they actually have it to give.So what of this team isn't SB- ready either? Is that supposed to mean sell all the good players off? Are we just supposed to go backwards, to go forward?One step forward, two steps back. Ahh, that's my bucs.

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