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    • DEBUCSOWN

      Participant
      Post count: 2390

      Via bleacherreport. No surprise there. Been disappointing & is way overpaid. Has shown flashes but been a bust for the most part. Would’ve loved most the other ends that went first round that year though kerrigan is a 3-4 backer not sure what he’d be like as a 3-4 end.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4057

      He’s not a bust. I didn’t like the pick but even I won’t go so far as to say bust. In basically 2 years he has 103 tackles and 13 sacks. A DE who averages 50 tackles and 6.5 isn't chopped liver. He isn't an elite rusher but he hustles and gets effort sacks.  He is better actually rushing the passer than I thought he would be and not quite as good versus the run.  I can see not wanting to pay him $7m per year for what he does.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      It’s the right move (if true)…  his contract can be redone as necessary.I have hope that he can either start at LDE or be value added in a strong rotation on the Dline.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1385

      Clayborn hasn’t lit the league on fire, but he’s hardly been a bust. He lost his 2nd season to injury and has played well enough in the two years that he did play to at least be considered a solid player. Also, I’m not sure the prior regime did him any favors with all the stunts that he was forced to use. I can see perfectly why Licht isn’t picking up his option, but the fact that they aren’t shopping him either tells you a lot. Clayborn’s situation may improve a lot under Lovie and Cullen wihout the stunts.Underperformed, I agree. Bust - No.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      I think Clayborn and Barron, to this point, are in the same boat. Not busts but not played to the level we could hope for from the spot in the draft.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1250

      I think Clayborn and Barron, to this point, are in the same boat. Not busts but not played to the level we could hope for from the spot in the draft.

      Barron is better than Clayborn, Barron is one of the better safetys in the league.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2594

      I think Clayborn and Barron, to this point, are in the same boat. Not busts but not played to the level we could hope for from the spot in the draft.

      Barron is better than Clayborn, Barron is one of the better safetys in the league.

      You are a few weeks late for April Fools Day

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3027

      Well what the hell? Clayborn is what he was in college. A hard nosed player who played every down and played with violence. That’s what he is. Expecting him to develop into a pass rush specialist that uses speed and finesse is dumb. That’s never been who he is.I hope Lovie can think outside of his box and try him playing inside, he might be more productive on passing downs.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 929

      Don’t understand this. He may not have been an all pro but he has been solid and wouldn’t cost that much to pick up an option.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 975

      Don't understand this. He may not have been an all pro but he has been solid and wouldn't cost that much to pick up an option.

      $7 million, 6.9 to be exact.  Demarcus Ware just signed for $10 mill a year IIRC.  I know the tag for a DE is $13 million, but that is grossly inflated by the likes of Peppers.Clayborn is solid but not borderline elite solid. If he continues the way he is the Bucs can sign him for 3-4-5 mill next year. If he excels in the Lovie system which folks seem to think is close to the 2nd coming, maybe he earns himself some beaucoup pennies. It could prove beneficial to both parties.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 929

      Don't understand this. He may not have been an all pro but he has been solid and wouldn't cost that much to pick up an option.

      $7 million, 6.9 to be exact.  Demarcus Ware just signed for $10 mill a year IIRC.  I know the tag for a DE is $13 million, but that is grossly inflated by the likes of Peppers.Clayborn is solid but not borderline elite solid. If he continues the way he is the Bucs can sign him for 3-4-5 mill next year. If he excels in the Lovie system which folks seem to think is close to the 2nd coming, maybe he earns himself some beaucoup pennies. It could prove beneficial to both parties.

      Wow did not expect it to be anywhere near that

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      I think Clayborn and Barron, to this point, are in the same boat. Not busts but not played to the level we could hope for from the spot in the draft.

      Barron is better than Clayborn, Barron is one of the better safetys in the league.

      Barron has shown very little in an indication that he's one of the better safetys in the league unless "one of the better" includes a lot of guys.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 894

      Hell by the first game kick off, we will only know McCoy & David it seems. Man they are overhauling this team. Just shows to go ya that Do, Heemy & Sgt Slaughter knew squat.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1312

      Rusty, Clay is under contract this coming season. I think it will be interesting to see how he plays in this defensive system. If he lights it up.. They will attempt to resign to a new deal.. If not, he will walk next season. I totally understand not picking up a 7mill option at this point thought.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 965

      He was 4th in the league this season in TFL, behind only Robert Quinn, Watt, and Lavonte.  That’s a bust?  I’m not saying he should be paid 7 million, but he’s not a bust by any stretch of the imagination.  Sacks are completely blown out of proportion.  TFL also cause negative yardage plays, and waste a down just like a sack.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1312

      He was 4th in the league this season in TFL, behind only Robert Quinn, Watt, and Lavonte.  That's a bust?  I'm not saying he should be paid 7 million, but he's not a bust by any stretch of the imagination.  Sacks are completely blown out of proportion.  TFL also cause negative yardage plays, and waste a down just like a sack.

      Agreed.. Calling Clay a bust is absurd at this point.

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    • stonecoldbucsfan

      Participant
      Post count: 602

      Clayborn has been solid so far. He makes a lot of splash plays in the run game, but also gets eaten up at times. He is just ehh at pass-rushing, with Johnson here hopefully he shows a little more this year. Hoping for the best from him this year.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2962

      He’s underperformed for a first rounder, but if he had been picked in the middle of the 2nd round we’d appreciate him a lot more, I bet. He’s a solid player and one of the better run stopping ends in the league.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Clayborn is a solid player.  Not everyone we draft is going to be the next Simeon Rice.  He has been effective and I hope he’s in Tampa for a while.  He should thrive with Lovie.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Barron has had some beastly games ….Clayborn ? None.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1858

      Barron has had some beastly games ....Clayborn ? None.

      Barron has absolutely flashed at times as an elite safety in this league. I still remember some of his man coverage his rookie year was phenomenal. He needs to be more consistent and bust less (although I'm unclear how much was Barron, how much was Goldson messing up the check, and how much was Schiano's system).Clayborn isn't a bust, but he's clearly underperformed. The painful part is Cameron Jordon and Muhammada Wilkerson being taken after him in the 1st - compared to them he's been a huge disappointment. For those unclear, the reason you don't take the option is because you'll be able to resign him for less than the $7 million 5th year option.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      I think Clayborn and Barron, to this point, are in the same boat. Not busts but not played to the level we could hope for from the spot in the draft.

      Barron is better than Clayborn, Barron is one of the better safetys in the league.

      cool story bro.  Kuechly is NFC DPOTY. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 965

      Barron has had some beastly games ....Clayborn ? None.

      Clayborn isn't a bust, but he's clearly underperformed. The painful part is Cameron Jordon and Muhammada Wilkerson being taken after him in the 1st - compared to them he's been a huge disappointment.

      I disagree with this statement.  Jordan and Wilkerson blew up this year, but Clayborn outplayed them their rookie seasons and then missed most of the 2012 season.  His season this year was comparable to their second seasons.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1858

      Barron has had some beastly games ....Clayborn ? None.

      Clayborn isn't a bust, but he's clearly underperformed. The painful part is Cameron Jordon and Muhammada Wilkerson being taken after him in the 1st - compared to them he's been a huge disappointment.

      I disagree with this statement.  Jordan and Wilkerson blew up this year, but Clayborn outplayed them their rookie seasons and then missed most of the 2012 season.  His season this year was comparable to their second seasons.

      That definitely is an interesting point - in essence you're arguing that Clayborn "lost" a year, and is really just entering "year 3" (you also could throw in a down year while still recovering from an ACL tear).That's a strong argument, and certainly you can't write Clayborn off after 3 years.  He definitely could develop into a star still.  I just think that, even without the stat explosion of the past year, Jordan & Wilkerson were very, very strong players for their teams (and were playing in a 3-4). Neither had a player of the caliber of McCoy playing with them on the line, and I've also yet to see anything from Clayborn that makes me believe he'll be a very good player (like I have say, from Barron).  But I certainly could be wrong here given how young Clayborn still is.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      I think Clayborn and Barron, to this point, are in the same boat. Not busts but not played to the level we could hope for from the spot in the draft.

      Barron is better than Clayborn, Barron is one of the better safetys in the league.

      Barron certainly showed improvement, but he would not break the top 10. He struggles way too much in coverage when covering intermediate and deep passing routes.

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    • BConnell88

      Participant
      Post count: 83

      I’ve never been a big Clayburn fan. Hope Lovie kicks Clayburn and Bowers to the curb.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Clayborn is what he is. He was never gonna be an All-Pro DE. It’s a stretch to think that he will ever be a guy who gets consistent pass rush.That said, he has a place on this team. Every team would love to have a player like him (at the right price, that is). He is full throttle on every play. Never stops. The problem with that is, he tends to be inconsistent because he is on the field for too many snaps. Clayborn needs to be a guy who is the #2b or #3 DE. He needs to see a decrease in snaps about 20-25%. Go get another DE and have a nice 3 DE rotation. A lot of the better 4-3 pass rush units tend to either have a nice trio of DEs or DTs Clayborn would be one helluva #3 DE. That needs to be his role.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      I think Clayborn and Barron, to this point, are in the same boat. Not busts but not played to the level we could hope for from the spot in the draft.

      Barron is better than Clayborn, Barron is one of the better safetys in the league.

      cool story bro.  Kuechly is NFC DPOTY.

      Not sure where this fits in.  David is so much better than Kuechly that it's not a contest, and now that we have Lovie, Barron will be better than anything Luke is trotting out there.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 155

      Clayborn is what he is. He was never gonna be an All-Pro DE. It's a stretch to think that he will ever be a guy who gets consistent pass rush.That said, he has a place on this team. Every team would love to have a player like him (at the right price, that is). He is full throttle on every play. Never stops. The problem with that is, he tends to be inconsistent because he is on the field for too many snaps. Clayborn needs to be a guy who is the #2b or #3 DE. He needs to see a decrease in snaps about 20-25%. Go get another DE and have a nice 3 DE rotation. A lot of the better 4-3 pass rush units tend to either have a nice trio of DEs or DTs Clayborn would be one helluva #3 DE. That needs to be his role.

      Yup with Cullen's philosophy we are going to be rotation DEs. Having Johnson, Clayborn, Gholston, Means and Bowers is a good thing.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Was he supposed to be a “coverage de” or something?I'm blaming bad coaching on this one.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2601

      I've never been a big Clayburn fan. Hope Lovie kicks Clayburn and Bowers to the curb.

      Clayburn? What are your views on Rhonde Barber and Elvonte Davido?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      I will say one thing.  If Lavonte was named Elvonte, I would respect that more.    Lavonte sounds like a woman’s name.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2601

      I will say one thing.  If Lavonte was named Elvonte, I would respect that more.    Lavonte sounds like a woman's name.

      You would know "women" named Lavonte, wouldn't you? x)

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      I know Laverne, from Laverne and Shirley.    That’s about the same as Lavonte.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Was he supposed to be a "coverage de" or something?I'm blaming bad coaching on this one.

      He rarely dropped back and "played LB". People are overstating this. Should he have even been dropping back into the LB area? Hell no, but we are talking about less than 15% of his overall snaps. Want to blame it on something coaching related? Blame them for not rotating their DLmen enough.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Clayborn is what he is. He was never gonna be an All-Pro DE. It's a stretch to think that he will ever be a guy who gets consistent pass rush.That said, he has a place on this team. Every team would love to have a player like him (at the right price, that is). He is full throttle on every play. Never stops. The problem with that is, he tends to be inconsistent because he is on the field for too many snaps. Clayborn needs to be a guy who is the #2b or #3 DE. He needs to see a decrease in snaps about 20-25%. Go get another DE and have a nice 3 DE rotation. A lot of the better 4-3 pass rush units tend to either have a nice trio of DEs or DTs Clayborn would be one helluva #3 DE. That needs to be his role.

      Yup with Cullen's philosophy we are going to be rotation DEs. Having Johnson, Clayborn, Gholston, Means and Bowers is a good thing.

      We'll agree on the rotation of the DEs that will be happening in '14....but we'll have to disagree that the group of Johnson, Clayborn, Gholston, Means, and Bowers is a "good thing". What you have there is a lower end 1DE, a higher end #3DE, and 3 other guys who would be a #4 option on most teams. We are lacking a guy to squeeze in the between Johnson and Clayborn. Chances are that we will see very little production from the last 3 guys named, no matter how many snaps they see. They are all low potential guys at this point, IMO. I hope we find a way to get a quality DE in May in one of the first few rounds. This group just doesn't have enough pass rush talent to wreak havoc on opposing offenses.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Was he supposed to be a "coverage de" or something?I'm blaming bad coaching on this one.

      He rarely dropped back and "played LB". People are overstating this. Should he have even been dropping back into the LB area? Hell no, but we are talking about less than 15% of his overall snaps. Want to blame it on something coaching related? Blame them for not rotating their DLmen enough.

      Doesn't 15% sound like a lot for a guy like clayborn?Also, I'd have to agree about the rotations. That was also bad.The stunts, which everyone uses, but the bucs used seemingly all the damn time, was also a hindrance.Btw, I'm not speaking about JUST coaching HIM, I mean the entire defense was held back by schiano's unnecessary extra bs, and clayborn suffered greatly because of it.At the very least, I think he can do better in a lovie based scheme.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1858

      The stunts, which everyone uses, but the bucs used seemingly all the damn time, was also a hindrance.

      The (strong) argument here was that the Bucs couldn't get a pass rush without stunting and blitzing. I belive it was Greg Cosell who asked the question along the lines of  "Well, why the hell do you THINK he was stunting so much?"

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I guess you’re arguing that with mccoy too then, because he obviously had a problem with schiano’s line schemes.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1858

      I guess you're arguing that with mccoy too then, because he obviously had a problem with schiano's line schemes.

      Doesn't mean Schiano was wrong. Stunting could have hurt McCoy while benefitting the D-line as a whole.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Was he supposed to be a "coverage de" or something?I'm blaming bad coaching on this one.

      He rarely dropped back and "played LB". People are overstating this. Should he have even been dropping back into the LB area? Hell no, but we are talking about less than 15% of his overall snaps. Want to blame it on something coaching related? Blame them for not rotating their DLmen enough.

      Doesn't 15% sound like a lot for a guy like clayborn?Also, I'd have to agree about the rotations. That was also bad.The stunts, which everyone uses, but the bucs used seemingly all the damn time, was also a hindrance.Btw, I'm not speaking about JUST coaching HIM, I mean the entire defense was held back by schiano's unnecessary extra bs, and clayborn suffered greatly because of it.At the very least, I think he can do better in a lovie based scheme.

      At maximum,  you're talking about 100-115 snaps...but not all of those were passing plays. A good portion were rushing plays in which Clayborn wouldn't have had the opportunity to get a sack or pressure on the QB, which is one of the points people bring up when talking about Clayborn "playing LB".I also don't agree that the "entire" defense suffered because of Schianos schemes and such. The LBs thrived. Foster and David were used very well in that system. I think it was a system that Barron would have thrived in had he remained healthy.Also, as far as McCoy is concerned, we saw him stunt a lot less in '13 as opposed to what we saw in '12. So I dont think the scheme held GMC back last year either.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      Barron, like most Alabama DBs, can’t play coverage…He is still young, if he has the instincts, the coverage stuff can be corrected...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      I wouldn’t say that Bama DBs can’t cover…what I would say is that generally Bama defenders across the board tend to be very overrated. I firmly believe that had Barron went to Texas and played the same way he did at Bama, then he wouldn't have been our #7 pick. Had Dee Milliner or Dre Kirkpatrick gone to different schools, you would not have seen them at top 20 picks. CJ Mosely would be a 2nd round ILB, and so forth. He definitely will continue to grow and can get to a place where he is a competent cover safety, but he was not as far along a hyped when coming out of college. Had a lot to do with the logo that was stuck to the side of his helmet on Saturdays.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      It’s hard to gauge Clayborn….Maybe his lack of productivity had to do with the clowns that were coaching him....

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      By all means, lets complain about the guy with the biggest heart/motor on the team for being paid too much when he is still on his rookie deal.  Half you guys could be getting head from Kate Upton and still find reasons to complain.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      By all means, lets complain about the guy with the biggest heart/motor on the team for being paid too much when he is still on his rookie deal.  Half you guys could be getting head from Kate Upton and still find reasons to complain.

      Teeth!  Don't care what fine female is working that day.Complaint can be filed.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      By all means, lets complain about the guy with the biggest heart/motor on the team for being paid too much when he is still on his rookie deal.  Half you guys could be getting head from Kate Upton and still find reasons to complain.

      I've heard white girls dont give good head...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      Ive heard black girls don’t give head period.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2601

      It just got very creepy in here.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Ive heard black girls don't give head period.

      They're out there.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 169

      Buc fans at their finest. fuckn disgrace~!

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