Currently, there are 0 users and 1 guest visiting this topic.
Viewing 51 reply threads

  • Author

    Posts

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      The defense is going to argue that Floyd “survived” a similar event earlier so he only died here because of drugs (this is the SOP, flip things on the victim approach)

      The trial will also give rise to previously unreported or underreported facts. Here’s one:

      https://twitter.com/JoyceWhiteVance/status/1376548179752194067?s=20

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      in case tweet doesn’t load, its that a female EMT will testify that when she approached to offer aid to Floyd, Chauvin refused her and even went so far is to point his mace at her

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      or this one

      9:29 kneeling on neck, not 8:46

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      “Rodney King” is trending on twitter because some are saying that if Chauvin gets off there will be riots. Hope people don’t think that because its almost impossible to convict a police officer. This morning one of the lawyers used the stat, its something like 30 conviction out of the last 150 or so cases

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 114

      I’d like to see how this plays out. When I saw the video of that guy kneeling on Floyd’s neck it angered me to see the smirk on his face. I was confused how this was an acceptable way to detain a suspect.

      However, I have read what he was doing was taught by his city’s police dept. on how to detain a suspect. If this is true, it throws a monkey wrench into my initial reaction. I’m hoping this is covered in the trial. I mean, if what he was doing was “by the book”…

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      I’d like to see how this plays out. When I saw the video of that guy kneeling on Floyd’s neck it angered me to see the smirk on his face. I was confused how this was an acceptable way to detain a suspect.

      However, I have read what he was doing was taught by his city’s police dept. on how to detain a suspect. If this is true, it throws a monkey wrench into my initial reaction. I’m hoping this is covered in the trial. I mean, if what he was doing was “by the book”…

      its not true actually. he was violating policy

      I mean, its a fair point you’re making, its just that the knee was specifically addressed in a prior policy change

      I think it was even mentioned this morning, but I will double check. If it was “by the book” then he’d have a qualified immunity defense

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      I think this is the issue you raise discussed in the WaPo and its made unclear by his attorney

      “Though Minneapolis police officials have repeatedly said Chauvin was using a restraint technique in violation of department rules, Nelson has filed materials with the court that included training manuals with photos demonstrating a knee-on-neck hold similar to the one Chauvin used on Floyd.

      “Mr. Chauvin did exactly as he was trained to do,” Nelson wrote in earlier court filings.”

      so two competing positions that come down to the words:

      1.”Minneapolis police officials have repeatedly said Chauvin was using a restraint technique in violation of department rules”

      NOTE: DEPARTMENT

      2. “Nelson has filed materials with the court that included training manuals with photos demonstrating a knee-on-neck hold similar to the one Chauvin used on Floyd.

      “Mr. Chauvin did exactly as he was trained to do”

      BOTH COULD BE TRUE because Chauvin’s “training” may have preceded a Department policy change and the reference to manuals above doesn’t identify where they are from so it could just be “this is accpeted practice in OTHER DEPARTMENTs”

      who knows? we will find out though

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      So my comment above that he was violating policy could just as easily be wrong

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      You’re actually right, Kermit. Here it is from local source. It was changed AS A RESULT OF THIS EVENT

      https://www.startribune.com/good-riddance-to-neck-restraint-tactic/571059552/

      “It wasn’t easy to tell from the swirl of discussion whether the tactic Derek Chauvin used against George Floyd was a sanctioned use of force under Minneapolis police procedures. The early word from people like Mayor Jacob Frey and police spokesman John Elder was no. And perhaps by that they meant the length of time Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd’s neck, or the fact that Floyd was already handcuffed, or the fact that he died.

      Yet there it was in the Police Department’s Policy and Procedure Manual, section 5-311, “Use of neck restraints and choke holds,” with dates of last prior revision:

      Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck). Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. (04/16/12)

      Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. (04/16/12)

      Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12)

      Consider that gone. Under an agreement approved unanimously by the City Council on Friday, officers would be forbidden from using both neck restraints and chokeholds. They also would be required to intervene when inappropriate force is used. The moves are part of a preliminary injunction in the lawsuit filed against the Minneapolis Police Department last week by the Minnesota Department of Human Rights.”

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      the officers were fired though, so its more complicated because it comes down to interpretation of the manual itself:

      “But Chauvin and the three officers on the scene with him were fired and face various charges ranging from second-degree murder (for Chauvin) to aiding and abetting murder (for the others). The policy that will apply to their cases is that which was in force when they encountered Floyd. So what was it — beyond the painfully obvious — that was not in keeping with established practice in the city?

      Here again, the manual offers hints. It said the “unconscious neck restraint” ­shall be applied only on a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or for lifesaving purposes, or on a subject “who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective.”

      It added, in the sweetly named “After Care Guidelines,” that “after a neck restraint or choke hold has been used on a subject, sworn MPD employees shall keep them under close observation until they are released to medical or other law enforcement personnel.”

      This last part in bold must be why the prosecution mentioned in its opening that Chauvin chased off the female EMT (ie he would not release him)

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      I have read what he was doing was taught by his city’s police dept. on how to detain a suspect.

      THIS ^^ IS ACTUALLY FASCINATING BECAUSE it actually takes us back to Trump.

      Obamma started a substantial police reform process that included Consent Decrees (for police departments that had to be sued to reform) and the “resident’s Task Force on 21st Century Policing” for those police forces who would reform voluntarily. ONE PART OF THR REOFRM WAS USE OF CORCE, INCLUDING CHOKEHOLDS.

      Chauvin’s police forces LEADERSHIP and the GOVERNMENT voluntarily adopted the Obama’s reforms (including the chokehold issue)

      BUT . . .

      “One barrier that has prevented Minneapolis from achieving these goals has been pushback from the police union and its president, Lt. Bob Kroll, against policy and culture change, said Michelle Phelps, a sociology professor at the University of Minnesota. Last year, when Mayor Jacob Frey announced Minneapolis would become the first city to ban warrior-style training, Kroll countered by publicly announcing free warrior training for rank-and-file officers.

      “Cultural change is really hard,” Phelps said. “We can see the resistance to this change in the election and re-election of Bob Kroll. And the union exerts its own independent push against reform.”

      SO THE UNION FOUGHT BACK AND ACTUALLY CONTINUED TO TRAIN OFFICERS IN “WARRIOR-STYLE” TRAINIGN , WHICH INCLUDED THE CHAUIVN CHOKEHOLD

      ########################

      if you dont know, Kroll is cop who appeared on stage with Trump to decry what he described as the ” “the handcuffing and oppression of the police” by the Obama Administration. He also obviously praised President Trump for “letting the cops do their jobs.”

      Kroll has too long a history of racist stuff to list here but hers a quick snipet:

      “Through a series of controversies over the years, Kroll has been a staunch defender of the police. In 2015, after two white officers shot 24-year-old Jamar Clark in the head, Kroll spoke on television about Clark’s “violent” criminal history; later, when the officers were cleared of wrongdoing, he referred to Black Lives Matter as a “terrorist organization,” according to the Minneapolis Star Tribune.

      In 2007, Kroll also referred to former US Rep. Keith Ellison, who is Muslim and Black and has pushed for criminal justice reforms, as a terrorist, according to a lawsuit filed by now–Police Chief Medaria Arradondo alleging racism within the police department. The lawsuit accused Kroll of wearing a motorcycle jacket with a white-power patch sewed into the fabric, and said he had “a history of discriminatory attitudes and conduct.” He has told reporters he was part of the City Heat motorcycle club, some of whose members have been described by the Anti-Defamation League as displaying white supremacist symbols. Kroll did not respond to a request for comment but has denied the allegations in the past.

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      First witness was the dispatcher. Not good foe the defense, specially when paired with later expected testimony that Chauvin wouldnt let the EMT get to Floyd:

      “The prosecution called the first witness on Monday, City of Minneapolis 911 dispatcher, Jena Scurry.

      She spoke about her work as a dispatcher and her knowledge of the city’s 911 system, before detailing how she became concerned on seeing a live feed of Floyd’s arrest.

      “There was a fixed police camera that was trained on this particular scene. She could see through the camera what was going on,” Blackwell said.

      “You will learn that what she saw was so unusual and, for her, so disturbing that she did something that she had never done in her career.”

      Scurry was able to see a video of the scene of the call from a TV screen in her office but noted that she did not watch the whole incident as she was answering other calls to dispatch.

      Prosecution played the footage with Scurry identifying the parts she had watched.

      Scurry told the court had a “gut instinct” that something was wrong on the call as while the ambulance was there, she did not see Floyd receiving any medical attention or paramedics come into the shot.

      She said that she eventually called Minneapolis Sgt. David Pleoger, who oversaw the officers involved in the arrest in progress, to report that she felt uncomfortable after an “extended period of time.”

      “You can call me a snitch if you want to,” she told the sergeant in the call played for the jury.

      “My instincts were telling me something was wrong,” Scurry told the court.

      “It was a gut instinct of the incident: Something is not going right. Whether it be they needed more assistance. Just something wasn’t right.”

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6059

      THIS ^^ IS ACTUALLY FASCINATING BECAUSE it actually takes us back to Trump.

      Who would have thought?

      • Kermit56

        Participant
        Post count: 114

        Yeah, post after post after post for 4 years…it can’t be easy to let it go and move on.

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3489

        Right.

        But Alice did manage a few rational sounding posts first. I hesitate to call that progress…. dumb luck? who knows.

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      Yeah, post after post after post for 4 years…it can’t be easy to let it go and move on.

      It’s the topic of the case when it happened. The US split in two as a result of the case and that is because of the difference in politics

      If you are a Trumper you see “when the looting starts the shooting starts”

      If you are not a Trumper it’s “a $20 bill shouldn’t be a death sentence”

      And that difference comes home directly here because Trump is not only the leader of that view but also his policies are directly implicated. He had Sessions dismantle all of the Obama reforms AND the actual cop who maintained the chokehold policy against the city’s wishes is/was a Trump
      Campaign pawn

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3489

        This country was split in two before Trump came along which any rational person could accept.

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      Right on cue, 3rd witness testifies about the Trumpian mindset of the 2nd cop

    • TheChronicHotAir

      Participant
      Post count: 5230

      Who is this chauvin guy? Did he do something bad??

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      Who is this chauvin guy? Did he do something bad??

      Not in your book. You donated to his defense, right?

      😁

    • TheChronicHotAir

      Participant
      Post count: 5230

      Never heard of him.

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      FauxNews coverage lol

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      Stinging testimony from the MMA fighter witness.

      He called 911, I guess.

      “I felt the need to call the police”

      to call the police . . on the police

      ouch

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      the young girl just testified that she took her young cousin into the restaurant because she didn’t want her to see Floyd suffering

      also, supposedly multiple first responders turned away? Sop the defense is trying to argue that the crowd was to blame? good grief

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 874

      the young girl just testified that she took her young cousin into the restaurant because she didn’t want her to see Floyd suffering

      also, supposedly multiple first responders turned away? Sop the defense is trying to argue that the crowd was to blame? good grief

      Haven’t seen the actual testimony where this is concerned, but my initial response to your response is that unless you have arrested someone in a high crime area, and had to deal with the locals reaction to that arrest, it’s not the same as walking out a shoplifter out of macys. 3,4,5 cops may sound a lot, but it can all of a sudden become a scenario that quickly gets out of hand, and 5 cops becomes nothing. The more you can keep the arrested person under control and quiet, the less likely violence will break out.

      This kind of case has a tendency to be emotionally and politically driven resulting in over charging and a lack of evidence. We have already seen this with the re-introduction of the murder 3 charge. IN MY OPINION, murder 3 (manslaughter) is the only thing they can get here, and even then, if there is evidence he was following SOP that should not hold.

      Now, there is the chance he is convicted because the Jurors fear the consequences of not convicting. In that scenario there is a high chance of turnover on appeal. For me, the prosecution will have to come up with something above and beyond what we have seen so far to convict.

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1035

      the young girl just testified that she took her young cousin into the restaurant because she didn’t want her to see Floyd suffering

      also, supposedly multiple first responders turned away? Sop the defense is trying to argue that the crowd was to blame? good grief

      Haven’t seen the actual testimony where this is concerned, but my initial response to your response is that unless you have arrested someone in a high crime area, and had to deal with the locals reaction to that arrest, it’s not the same as walking out a shoplifter out of macys. 3,4,5 cops may sound a lot, but it can all of a sudden become a scenario that quickly gets out of hand, and 5 cops becomes nothing. The more you can keep the arrested person under control and quiet, the less likely violence will break out.

      This kind of case has a tendency to be emotionally and politically driven resulting in over charging and a lack of evidence. We have already seen this with the re-introduction of the murder 3 charge. IN MY OPINION, murder 3 (manslaughter) is the only thing they can get here, and even then, if there is evidence he was following SOP that should not hold.

      Now, there is the chance he is convicted because the Jurors fear the consequences of not convicting. In that scenario there is a high chance of turnover on appeal. For me, the prosecution will have to come up with something above and beyond what we have seen so far to convict.

      Spartan, you are the biggest white person apologist ever, lol. The kid, Rittenhouse, was “victim” who engaged in “self defense” and now Chauvin can only be convicted if the jurors are intimated????????

      Now, there is the chance he is convicted because the Jurors fear the consequences of not convicting.

      LMAO. the jurors might also convict him because they think he’s guilty, right?

      as for this:

      “Haven’t seen the actual testimony where this is concerned, but my initial response to your response is that unless you have arrested someone in a high crime area, and had to deal with the locals reaction to that arrest, it’s not the same as walking out a shoplifter out of macys. 3,4,5 cops may sound a lot, but it can all of a sudden become a scenario that quickly gets out of hand, and 5 cops becomes nothing. The more you can keep the arrested person under control and quiet, the less likely violence will break out.”

      clearly you have not seen the testimony or any of the videos. if you did you’d understand how stupid this sounds. the crowd is small, but grows in size (about 14 people) and VOLUME precisely because they are holding him down. That’s the point of the prosecutor. If they are concerned for him, or for themselves (your suggestion), they not only get him UP and likely in the car, but they also LET THE TWO (maybe three) different first responders care for him. That’s the whole point of 9:29 and its that 9:29 that go the “crowd” going. Not only did they hold him down, kneeling on his neck (while cuffed), they didnt even let first responders care for him

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 874

      Spartan, you are the biggest white person apologist ever, lol. The kid, Rittenhouse, was “victim” who engaged in “self defense” and now Chauvin can only be convicted if the jurors are intimated????????

      Who also happens to have more people of color in his family than you will speak to in a fortnight. (OK I’m guessing there, but you get my point!)

      We talk these these things through, I listen to what they say and I try to formulate an opinion based on what I see, what they see and how we all interpret it. Then I try to inject some logic, look back on how these things have panned out in the past and comment how it may turn o