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    • SackedBySapp

      Participant
      Post count: 155

      The sky isn’t falling……..if FELL LAST YEAR.A more appropriate catch phrase, after watching the game last night may be "I'VE FALLEN AND I CAN'T GET UP".if some of you want to find fault with players and or coaches fine......I say "look in the mirror" and take a step back and understand that perhaps you fell a little too hard for the OBP Hype Machine and expected too much too soon.every fan of the game knows we looked horrible last night...in almost every instance. If you don't agree you're a casual fan or a player groupie. I also realize it was the first pre-season game....and most of you should too...    I'm not about to critique any player or coach in pre-season.  again, let the kids and casual fan homers do that....    I'll look for improvement like most of you will......and care when it's official...during the season.  then I will pass blame......on ANY player or coach...or GM....or owner.our guys looked lazy, confused, bewildered and ill prepared.....in contrast the falcons looked amazing right out of the gate in their game....in mid season form.....is it cause for concern? ...could be....  so now lovie has to dig deeper....and earn his salary...and get this gang shooting straight and executing so well and automatically that they don't even have to think about it....until then, chill folks......you got too caught up in the of season hype.

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    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Good post. I was thinking something like 8-8 before last nights game. And I havnt changed my mind on that.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      our guys looked lazy, confused, bewildered and ill prepared…..

      agree with a lot, but not this.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Good post. I was thinking something like 8-8 before last nights game. And I havnt changed my mind on that.

      agreed

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Every offseason some build up irrational expectations and then freak out when the first preseason game doesn’t meet their irrational expectation. First preseason game, first NFL game for many, on the road against a decent team playing its second preseason game. I can't believe we did not crush them!!(sarcasm)

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      You say you won’t evaluate the players or coaches with one key stroke and then go on to say that they looked lazy and bewildered with the next. Come down from the clouds.I don't see how thinking we would see an improved team counts as having irrational expectations. EVERYONE in this board has been saying how much of an improvement the signing of Koetter alone should have improved our team (I have yet to see a poster argue this). We also spent the 1st overall draft pick on a QB, which is the most important position on the team.And look, I wasn't looking for The Bucs to 'crush the other team' or even win. I just wanted to see improvement over the 2-14 product we fielded last year. I don't think that is asking or expecting too much. Instead we saw more of the SAME. That is what is so frustrating.

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    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      You say you won't evaluate the players or coaches with one key stroke and then go on to say that they looked lazy and bewildered with the next. Come down from the clouds.I don't see how thinking we would see an improved team counts as having irrational expectations. EVERYONE in this board has been saying how much of an improvement the signing of Koetter alone should have improved our team (I have yet to see a poster argue this). We also spent the 1st overall draft pick on a QB, which is the most important position on the team.And look, I wasn't looking for The Bucs to 'crush the other team' or even win. I just wanted to see improvement over the 2-14 product we fielded last year. I don't think that is asking or expecting too much. Instead we saw more of the SAME. That is what is so frustrating.

      The only place you are going off the rails there is how soon. After 1 preseason game you are going to declare, ok, there has been zero improvement?  Too early for that nonsense. Give them the entire preseason and even a real game or two before you declare its a trainwreck.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      Yes zero improvement from last years first preseason game in comparison with this one. That evaluation hardly means that I’m ‘going off the rails’.Also, I've never once declared this season a train wreck. Not once. I'm only expressing my concerns that our team seems to be facing the same issues that it was plagued by this time last year.

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    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Yes zero improvement from last years first preseason game in comparison with this one. That evaluation hardly means that I'm 'going off the rails'.

      You missed the point. You seem to be saying, ok we saw who they are after the first preseason game. That's it, that is our team for 2015. They suck.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      You missed the point. You seem to be saying, ok we saw who they are after the first preseason game. That's it, that is our team for 2015. They suck.

      isnt that kind of what you are saying int he ASJ thread?

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    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      You missed the point. You seem to be saying, ok we saw who they are after the first preseason game. That's it, that is our team for 2015. They suck.

      isnt that kind of what you are saying int he ASJ thread?

      Cross threading not allowed.But there is a huge difference really. Some of the guys from last night were seeing there first NFL action. Jenkins is going into his 2nd season as a pro.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Chicken little – usually it means someone going overboard, especially with a conspiracy twist.Idk of anyone is going overboard yet, but i am hearing sad season stuff already. A 2 win team could make a person gunshy, alienated, apathetic, etc, so it stands to reason that their first outing needed to shut up critics.Problem is, health vs proving. You risk health in real games, not practice. We all have to wait for livefire for a real guesstimate. Game one will be a great barometer.If they lose soundly to the tits, its probably going to be like last season, maybe a tad better. If they win marginally, we have improvement, and we will have more waiting to do. The bucs beat them greatly, we contemplate how far that will take them.Stock in ps games is pretty cheap. Just dont do it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1271

      There are a number of things to be encouraged by from last night. Martin looked good, as did the D line (with some nice surprises as DE) and linebacker depth. We all know the OLine is under a lot of transition, and that Jameis is going to take a little time. He did show some grit though, even in preseason game 1. Be patient. Enjoy the ride

      Please wait…

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Chicken little - usually it means someone going overboard, especially with a conspiracy twist.Idk of anyone is going overboard yet, but i am hearing sad season stuff already. A 2 win team could make a person gunshy, alienated, apathetic, etc, so it stands to reason that their first outing needed to shut up critics.Problem is, health vs proving. You risk health in real games, not practice. We all have to wait for livefire for a real guesstimate. Game one will be a great barometer.If they lose soundly to the tits, its probably going to be like last season, maybe a tad better. If they win marginally, we have improvement, and we will have more waiting to do. The bucs beat them greatly, we contemplate how far that will take them.Stock in ps games is pretty cheap. Just dont do it.

      Accusing the team of not trying is not going overboard?

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    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      There are a number of things to be encouraged by from last night. Martin looked good, as did the D line (with some nice surprises as DE) and linebacker depth. We all know the OLine is under a lot of transition, and that Jameis is going to take a little time. He did show some grit though, even in preseason game 1. Be patient. Enjoy the ride

      Finally a common sense post. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      Yes zero improvement from last years first preseason game in comparison with this one. That evaluation hardly means that I'm 'going off the rails'.

      You missed the point. You seem to be saying, ok we saw who they are after the first preseason game. That's it, that is our team for 2015. They suck.

      That's the thing though. You are ASSUMING I am saying something I am not. But in reality, all I have said is that I am concerned with what I saw from the team last night. Who isn't?

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    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Yes zero improvement from last years first preseason game in comparison with this one. That evaluation hardly means that I'm 'going off the rails'.

      You missed the point. You seem to be saying, ok we saw who they are after the first preseason game. That's it, that is our team for 2015. They suck.

      That's the thing though. You are ASSUMING I am saying something I am not. But in reality, all I have said is that I am concerned with what I saw from the team last night. Who isn't?

      Fair enough. I don't know anyone here personaly, but I assuming there are a lot of young guys on here from the sounds of a lot of these threads. I am a old fuck, so I tend to be more patient with things.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      There are a number of things to be encouraged by from last night. Martin looked good, as did the D line (with some nice surprises as DE) and linebacker depth. We all know the OLine is under a lot of transition, and that Jameis is going to take a little time. He did show some grit though, even in preseason game 1. Be patient. Enjoy the ride

      The D-line did not look good. Outside of Johnson's stuffed run, the starting unit didn't do anything to encourage me. They failed to generate a pass rush and they were undisciplined, costing our team penalty yards. Martin looked good, and Winston made and handful of positive plays. But as I've said before, those two elements alone are hardly anything to get excited about.

      Please wait…

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      There are a number of things to be encouraged by from last night. Martin looked good, as did the D line (with some nice surprises as DE) and linebacker depth. We all know the OLine is under a lot of transition, and that Jameis is going to take a little time. He did show some grit though, even in preseason game 1. Be patient. Enjoy the ride

      The D-line did not look good. Outside of Johnson's stuffed run, the starting unit didn't do anything to encourage me. They failed to generate a pass rush and they were undisciplined, costing our team penalty yards. Martin looked good, and Winston made and handful of positive plays. But as I've said before, those two elements alone are hardly anything to get excited about.

      He may have been talking about Sidbury, and Golston looked decent too.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Chicken little - usually it means someone going overboard, especially with a conspiracy twist.Idk of anyone is going overboard yet, but i am hearing sad season stuff already. A 2 win team could make a person gunshy, alienated, apathetic, etc, so it stands to reason that their first outing needed to shut up critics.Problem is, health vs proving. You risk health in real games, not practice. We all have to wait for livefire for a real guesstimate. Game one will be a great barometer.If they lose soundly to the tits, its probably going to be like last season, maybe a tad better. If they win marginally, we have improvement, and we will have more waiting to do. The bucs beat them greatly, we contemplate how far that will take them.Stock in ps games is pretty cheap. Just dont do it.

      Accusing the team of not trying is not going overboard?

      Not even close.Would YOU risk injury to all of your players in a "get to know me" type of game, or would you let them get to "know" the nfl a little?We have one guy now that is out, it could have been more. I know i would be telling winston to throw it away more quickly and often than he normally would, in a meaningless ps game. I would NOT ask him to extend drives. Keep it simple, keep it safe.I wouldve played him, and the rest of the first stringers, as long as they did, but like i said, with a lot less seriousness.And i wouldnt say its an accusation, more of a hopeful observation. Thats the only "side" of this disscussion that im interested in. The told you so's are dumb(same stupid boat).

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      Yes zero improvement from last years first preseason game in comparison with this one. That evaluation hardly means that I'm 'going off the rails'.

      You missed the point. You seem to be saying, ok we saw who they are after the first preseason game. That's it, that is our team for 2015. They suck.

      That's the thing though. You are ASSUMING I am saying something I am not. But in reality, all I have said is that I am concerned with what I saw from the team last night. Who isn't?

      Fair enough. I don't know anyone here personaly, but I assuming there are a lot of young guys on here from the sounds of a lot of these threads. I am a old (censored), so I tend to be more patient with things.

      Understood. I am 26. That may be young to you, but I feel I have followed this team for some time now. If you read my posts from years past, you will see that I have been one of the more optimistic people on these boards. But, the fact is that we have not seen the post season for almost a decade now. The fact is that for the past five years we have not been just a bad team, but an absolute laughing stock. How much more patient could I be? I don't feel that I am expecting too much. I only want some sign that we are headed in the right direction and not toward a place where we will see our HC and GM fired, our QB released, and our team pushed into yet ANOTHER period of 'rebuilding'.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      There are a number of things to be encouraged by from last night. Martin looked good, as did the D line (with some nice surprises as DE) and linebacker depth. We all know the OLine is under a lot of transition, and that Jameis is going to take a little time. He did show some grit though, even in preseason game 1. Be patient. Enjoy the ride

      The D-line did not look good. Outside of Johnson's stuffed run, the starting unit didn't do anything to encourage me. They failed to generate a pass rush and they were undisciplined, costing our team penalty yards. Martin looked good, and Winston made and handful of positive plays. But as I've said before, those two elements alone are hardly anything to get excited about.

      He may have been talking about Sidbury, and Golston looked decent too.

      That's fine, but those are backups going against a second string offensive line. The struggles of our starting Defense and Offense are much, much more concerning.

      Please wait…

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Yes zero improvement from last years first preseason game in comparison with this one. That evaluation hardly means that I'm 'going off the rails'.

      You missed the point. You seem to be saying, ok we saw who they are after the first preseason game. That's it, that is our team for 2015. They suck.

      That's the thing though. You are ASSUMING I am saying something I am not. But in reality, all I have said is that I am concerned with what I saw from the team last night. Who isn't?

      Fair enough. I don't know anyone here personaly, but I assuming there are a lot of young guys on here from the sounds of a lot of these threads. I am a old (censored), so I tend to be more patient with things.

      Understood. I am 26. That may be young to you, but I feel I have followed this team for some time now. If you read my posts from years past, you will see that I have been one of the more optimistic people on these boards. But, the fact is that we have not seen the post season for almost a decade now. The fact is that for the past five years we have not been just a bad team, but an absolute laughing stock. How much more patient could I be? I don't feel that I am expecting too much. I only want some sign that we are headed in the right direction and not toward a place where we will see our HC and GM fired, our QB released, and our team pushed into yet ANOTHER period of 'rebuilding'.

      I am going to believe in the new guys until they prove me wrong.LovieLitchWinstonKoetter

      Please wait…

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Chicken little - usually it means someone going overboard, especially with a conspiracy twist.Idk of anyone is going overboard yet, but i am hearing sad season stuff already. A 2 win team could make a person gunshy, alienated, apathetic, etc, so it stands to reason that their first outing needed to shut up critics.Problem is, health vs proving. You risk health in real games, not practice. We all have to wait for livefire for a real guesstimate. Game one will be a great barometer.If they lose soundly to the tits, its probably going to be like last season, maybe a tad better. If they win marginally, we have improvement, and we will have more waiting to do. The bucs beat them greatly, we contemplate how far that will take them.Stock in ps games is pretty cheap. Just dont do it.

      Accusing the team of not trying is not going overboard?

      Not even close.Would YOU risk injury to all of your players in a "get to know me" type of game, or would you let them get to "know" the nfl a little?We have one guy now that is out, it could have been more. I know i would be telling winston to throw it away more quickly and often than he normally would, in a meaningless ps game. I would NOT ask him to extend drives. Keep it simple, keep it safe.I wouldve played him, and the rest of the first stringers, as long as they did, but like i said, with a lot less seriousness.And i wouldnt say its an accusation, more of a hopeful observation. Thats the only "side" of this disscussion that im interested in. The told you so's are dumb(same stupid boat).

      I don't know if I am reading you right. But pro athletes taking it easy or going half speed never happens. They aren't programmed that way.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      I am going to believe in the new guys until they prove me wrong.LovieLitchWinstonKoetter

      Hey, don't get me wrong. I still believe in all these guys. A bit concerned, but I still believe they will get the job done.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      The struggles of our starting Defense and Offense are much, much more concerning.

      im not sure our starting defense gave up a point.  and im not sure that the starting offense should be a fine oiled machine in preseason game 1.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      Think again. They gave up 9 in one quarter.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Think again. They gave up 9 in one quarter.

      which defender got beat for their first score?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      First score was a FG. Seems like someone didn’t watch.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      haha, thats all you got?  yes, i wouldnt doubt that our 1st team defense gave up a FG. whenever you want to answer the question about their first TD, you let us know.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      ah shoot, i looked at the boxscore wrong.  whoops.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      You said first score not first TD.But anyway, the first TD was scored by Minnesotas FB up the gut. The guy gashed our STARTING defensive front for the second score of the game.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Stats are not important in preseason IMO.  I just want to see them play together, look well coached, move the ball. On a related note, last years preseason rushing leader, was let go in final cuts.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      Yes zero improvement from last years first preseason game in comparison with this one. That evaluation hardly means that I'm 'going off the rails'.

      You've gone Chicken Little numerous times...after one preseason game...d5111ed84c6123b6400b9bb7c3b92e70e35cce8365a300ce3d67f7743402eaa6.jpg

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      Yes zero improvement from last years first preseason game in comparison with this one. That evaluation hardly means that I'm 'going off the rails'.

      You've gone Chicken Little numerous times...after one preseason game...

      Numerous times? Like every other blind rat on these boards, you exaggerate the truth. I breifly expressed concern because the team's level of play warranted it. I did so for one single session on this board. I am over it and looking forward to seeing our players improve next week.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      30-70 in our last 100 hundred.We suck until they prove otherwise.  The team and Lovie suck.  It's truth.  It's fact.  Until they actually turn the corner...they haven't.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      We suck until they prove otherwise.  The team and Lovie suck.  It's truth.  It's fact.  Until they actually turn the corner...they haven't.

      except this isnt true.  everyone is 0-0.  what happened 99 games ago doesnt matter week 1.  we might suck.  we might be alright.  but what you are saying is not truth, and its not fact.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      I was going to mention someone going 0-0…lol.Until they start winning they still suck.  What part don't you understand?  30-70 isn't an anomaly...it is a trend.  Until they buck the trend...they still suck.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 648

      I was going to mention someone going 0-0...lol.Until they start winning they still suck.  What part don't you understand?  30-70 isn't an anomaly...it is a trend.  Until they buck the trend...they still suck.

      Wow the team that placed 32nd overall the previous season still sucks!Look at you go!It appears to me you just solved one of lifes greatest mysteries!Our rookie QB didn't light it up his first time on the field?Who would have guessed!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      I was going to mention someone going 0-0...lol.Until they start winning they still suck.  What part don't you understand?  30-70 isn't an anomaly...it is a trend.  Until they buck the trend...they still suck.

      you should have mentioned it.  each year you dont know what is gonna happen?  what part of that dont you understand?  6 years ago has no relevance to next month.  heck, do we even have a single guy on the roster from 6 years ago?i get it if you dont have confidence, but to say they suck before game one is ignorant.  basing this coming season on seasons past with different players and different coaches is ridiculous.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      SD:  Not sure what your point is…I’m merely using logic.  Too many folks are seeing crap that isn’t there.  Too many pollyannas on here.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      I was going to mention someone going 0-0...lol.Until they start winning they still suck.  What part don't you understand?  30-70 isn't an anomaly...it is a trend.  Until they buck the trend...they still suck.

      you should have mentioned it.  each year you dont know what is gonna happen?  what part of that dont you understand?  6 years ago has no relevance to next month.  heck, do we even have a single guy on the roster from 6 years ago?i get it if you dont have confidence, but to say they suck before game one is ignorant.  basing this coming season on seasons past with different players and different coaches is ridiculous.

      Buck the trend and I will gladly say so.  Lovie and a rookie QB=6-10 at best

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      30-70 in our last 100 hundred.We suck until they prove otherwise.  The team and Lovie suck.  It's truth.  It's fact.  Until they actually turn the corner...they haven't.

      true....so why be surprised at the outcome?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      SD:  Not sure what your point is...I'm merely using logic. 

      If logic applied to football in the way you are using it, the good teams would always be good and the bad teams would always be bad. The Bucs haven't won a championship. Neither have the Pats. The only teams worth watching are the Kansas City Chiefs and Green Bay Packers. They should be the only two teams that play in the big game each year.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      SD:  Not sure what your point is...I'm merely using logic. 

      If logic applied to football in the way you are using it, the good teams would always be good and the bad teams would always be bad. The Bucs haven't won a championship. Neither have the Pats. The only teams worth watching are the Kansas City Chiefs and Green Bay Packers. They should be the only two teams that play in the big game each year.

      Huh? 30-70 isn't one or two seasons.  It's  valley of incompetence in a time when the league is set up to rotate teams in and out of the playoffs.  The absentee ownership is a joke and the results speak for themselves.  The Bucs are the red-headed step child to ManU.I don't expect much change this season either.  Lovie is a dinosaur.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      where do you obtain your information on the absentee ownership? 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      SD:  Not sure what your point is...I'm merely using logic. 

      If logic applied to football in the way you are using it, the good teams would always be good and the bad teams would always be bad. The Bucs haven't won a championship. Neither have the Pats. The only teams worth watching are the Kansas City Chiefs and Green Bay Packers. They should be the only two teams that play in the big game each year.

      Huh? 30-70 isn't one or two seasons. It's  valley of incompetence in a time when the league is set up to rotate teams in and out of the playoffs. 

      So were most of the two decades before Tony Dungy became our HC. Then we had one bad year and after that? We became perennial playoff contenders! You don't know our team's history very well, do you...?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      SD:  Not sure what your point is...I'm merely using logic. 

      If logic applied to football in the way you are using it, the good teams would always be good and the bad teams would always be bad. The Bucs haven't won a championship. Neither have the Pats. The only teams worth watching are the Kansas City Chiefs and Green Bay Packers. They should be the only two teams that play in the big game each year.

      Huh? 30-70 isn't one or two seasons. It's  valley of incompetence in a time when the league is set up to rotate teams in and out of the playoffs. 

      So were most of the two decades before Tony Dungy became our HC. Then we had one bad year and after that? We became perennial playoff contenders! You don't know our team's history very well, do you...?

      Been going to games since the early 80's.  What's your excuse?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      where do you obtain your information on the absentee ownership?

      Pretty sure the Glazers have been living in England since the ManU takeover.  They come stateside when necessary.  Not to.mention the difficulty of running two major sports franchises on two continents...yeah easy peasy.Defenders of the red faithless unite!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      SD:  Not sure what your point is...I'm merely using logic. 

      If logic applied to football in the way you are using it, the good teams would always be good and the bad teams would always be bad. The Bucs haven't won a championship. Neither have the Pats. The only teams worth watching are the Kansas City Chiefs and Green Bay Packers. They should be the only two teams that play in the big game each year.

      Huh? 30-70 isn't one or two seasons. It's  valley of incompetence in a time when the league is set up to rotate teams in and out of the playoffs. 

      So were most of the two decades before Tony Dungy became our HC. Then we had one bad year and after that? We became perennial playoff contenders! You don't know our team's history very well, do you...?

      Been going to games since the early 80's.  What's your excuse?

      I don't need an excuse, I know my stuff. Any fool can sit in a plastic chair and drink beer.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      where do you obtain your information on the absentee ownership?

      Pretty sure the Glazers have been living in England since the ManU takeover.  They come stateside when necessary.  Not to.mention the difficulty of running two major sports franchises on two continents...yeah easy peasy.Defenders of the red faithless unite!

      Again, where do you get this crap?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      A Chicken Whittle Reference?whittling.jpg

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Huh? 30-70 isn't one or two seasons.  It's  valley of incompetence in a time when the league is set up to rotate teams in and out of the playoffs.  The absentee ownership is a joke and the results speak for themselves.  The Bucs are the red-headed step child to ManU.I don't expect much change this season either.  Lovie is a dinosaur.

      Absentee ownership?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      where do you obtain your information on the absentee ownership?

      Pretty sure the Glazers have been living in England since the ManU takeover.  They come stateside when necessary.  Not to.mention the difficulty of running two major sports franchises on two continents...yeah easy peasy.

      Really??

      Please wait…

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