Comparison to Favre has to Stop (It’s Lazy and Ignorant)

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  • #1241831
    VirgilCaine
    Participant

    This is the weird, but common, type of argument you get in football discussions:

    “ Not saying Winston is Peyton but to think he is a complete scrub and deserves to be benched just shows your hatred for the man or maybe some of you are just racist.”

    Translated “I am not making an extreme argument (Winston = Manning) and you are not either, but I am going to say you are (“Winston is a complete scrub”)

    Maybe someone used “complete scrub” above but if so that would be nuts. Obviously, Winston is not a “complete scrub” but neither is he Favre (the point of thread) or Manning or a QB to build a franchise around, at least not so far

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    #1241834
    Havok904
    Participant

    Football comparisons are always wrong.

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    #1241835
    TBayXXXVII
    Participant

    Which is Winston and which is Cutler?
    Comp%
    QB 1: 61.6
    QB 2: 61.5

    TD%
    QB 1: 4.7
    QB 2: 4.7

    Int%
    QB 1: 3.6
    QB 2: 3.3

    That’s all you need to know.

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    #1241837
    notabucsfan
    Participant

    omp%
    QB 1: 61.6
    QB 2: 61.5

    TD%
    QB 1: 4.7
    QB 2: 4.7

    Int%
    QB 1: 3.6
    QB 2: 3.3

    I will help
    QB 1: 229.6YPG
    QB 2: 271.6YPG

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    #1241841
    TBayXXXVII
    Participant

    Thanks for helping to prove that both stink.

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    #1241845
    notabucsfan
    Participant

    Thanks for helping to prove that both stink.

    Jameis first 5 years Offense Rank (Year before he was drafted Bucs ranked 30th in offense)
    5th, 18th, 9th, 3rd, 3rd

    Peyton
    12th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 9th

    Cutler
    21st, 11th, 2nd, 23rd, 30th

    damn… he stinks. How does this guy have a job? I could do what each of these players defences were ranked but that wouldn’t help your argument for him stinking…

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    #1241857
    BucBalla85
    Participant

    I’m still amazed at how people toss aside the argument about it being different eras. Defenses back before the new rules were implemented could get away with a lot more than they could now days. It’s almost flag football now compared to then. Ok I’m being a little extreme there but its still easier for QBs to throw for large amounts of yards now than it was then. They basically did this to increase scoring in the beginning and then eventually was cracked down even more so because of the concussions.

    Defenses now have to focus on getting to the QB without looking like you killed the guy. Also on playing coverage is more difficult for the dbs. Really all tackling has gotten to where you have the right technique where you aren’t looking like you are killing the guy. Protecting the players but they definitely still had improved scoring in mind. As I showed earlier the offenses average improved after the rule changes. I bet in the last 10 12 years 4000 yards is far more common right now than ever in the sport.

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    #1241862
    BucBalla85
    Participant

    Also since it got easier on offense, its become even more important to keep care of the ball and turnovers. It’s far more likely for another team to go down the field to go and score than ever I feel. So if you turn the ball over you give the other team a massive advantage in winning the game. You then need to depend on your defenses then to turn the ball over and give the ball back to your offense. Can people really not see how important ball security is at this level and how you can’t just depend on your defense and run game all the time?? Winston has done a fine job scoring points but his turnovers are back breaking sometimes and kills momentum. It’s bad. We need like an insane defense that can hang with the best in the league and a good run game to help Winston’s turnovers not lead to losses.

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    #1241865
    GoldsonAges
    Participant

    Arians was asked about Winston in his presser and he said that the high rate of INT’s is normal for a QB’s 1st year in his system.

    He said he expects the INT’s to drastically reduce in year two in the system for Winston. He also said theres “something there” with Winston’s ability to put the bad plays behind him and go back out there and lead his team to victory.

    You can’t ignore the turnovers, and you can’t ignore the elite play and leadership either, unless your name is TOG

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    GottaJaboo wrote:
    (Justin) Evans will be far superior to (Budda) Baker in the pros.

    Dan Skipper Sucks! (lost bet)
    Update - UDFA Dan Skipper has been signed by the Dallas Cowboys

    #1241868
    DonkeyHunter
    Participant
    Jameis first 5 years Offense Rank (Year before he was drafted Bucs ranked 30th in offense)

    5th, 18th, 9th, 3rd, 3rd

    Peyton

    12th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 9th

    Since you love cherrypicking, let’s use an offensive ranking that matters…points per game.

    Winston:

    20th, 18th, 18th, 12th, currently 3rd

    Manning:

    19th, 3rd, 4th, 2nd,  17th

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    #1241872
    VirgilCaine
    Participant

    Just like the Colts were before Manning the Bucs were bad before Winston.

    As I recall, the Colts struggled his first year but then went to the playoff several of the next 4 years?

    Peyton also went on to win multiple MVPs, Pro Bowls, Super Bowls etc

    So if youre making the Winston to Manning comparison, you’re saying that Winston is just a “late bloomer?” There’s been a conspiracy against him?

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    #1241876
    harrybucman
    Participant

    Arians was asked about Winston in his presser and he said that the high rate of INT’s is normal for a QB’s 1st year in his system.

    He said he expects the INT’s to drastically reduce in year two in the system for Winston. He also said theres “something there” with Winston’s ability to put the bad plays behind him and go back out there and lead his team to victory.

    You can’t ignore the turnovers, and you can’t ignore the elite play and leadership either, unless your name is TOG

    We all have our opinions of Winston–some hate–some support and so many have offered statistics to validate their reasoning. And that’s all good. But the only opinion that really matters is Bruce Arian’s. He’s taken his stand. Case closed.

     

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    #1241878
    notabucsfan
    Participant

    Just like the Colts were before Manning the Bucs were bad before Winston.

    As I recall, the Colts struggled his first year but then went to the playoff several of the next 4 years?

    Peyton also went on to win multiple MVPs, Pro Bowls, Super Bowls etc

    So if youre making the Winston to Manning comparison, you’re saying that Winston is just a “late bloomer?” There’s been a conspiracy against him?

    I’ll start by saying I do think Peyton is the far superior quarterback and he did make the playoffs 3 out of his first 5 years but even Peyton had help from his defense in the years he made the playoffs (rank PPG 17, 15,  7 vs Bucs since Winston 26, 15(finished 9-7), 22, 31, 31) and had bad defense on the two years they missed them.

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    #1241910
    jbear
    Participant

    Which is Winston and which is Cutler?

    Comp%

    QB 1: 61.6

    QB 2: 61.5

    TD%

    QB 1: 4.7

    QB 2: 4.7

    Int%

    QB 1: 3.6

    QB 2: 3.3

    That’s all you need to know.

    Cutler had an 11 year career.  He started 153 games, threw for 35,000 yards and 227 touchdowns.  I get sick of these childish comparisons where fans want to say everybody “sucks” because we all know Jay Cutler “sucked”.

    Jay Cutler had an attitude and leadership problem that Jameis simply does not have.  If anything your comparison proves that Winston should have a better than average NFL career.

     

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    #1242145
    dotASC
    Participant

    Epic thread

     

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