Currently, there are 0 users and 1 guest visiting this topic.
Viewing 82 reply threads

  • Author

    Posts

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3703

      https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/19/politics/brian-sicknick-death-us-capitol-riot/index.html

      I’m pretty sure there is a conspiracy theory thread around here with a Glen Greenwald link attached to it that discusses various reasons why this might have taken so long.

      Can’t we discuss this without name calling?

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3703

      https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-media-lied-repeatedly-about-officer?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjozNDUyNzU2NSwicG9zdF9pZCI6MzUzNDk3MjIsIl8iOiI4bFMxaiIsImlhdCI6MTYxODg3MTMzNSwiZXhwIjoxNjE4ODc0OTM1LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMTI4NjYyIiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.wxkmE4O7pvAmv7Zc5x-6kqXfXjFrCgqBHRm1yV6wsPc

      Right on time here’s my buddy Glen Greenwald with his inflammatory opinion.

      I’m sure some will call his take “crazy” but I see it as a lifting of the veil of the current state of politics in this country. Not only do I think it’s fair to discuss but I also think that it’s important. People need to take all of this shit with a grain of salt.

      I mean Greenwald’s opinion and the false narrative we were fed. No matter what you think about Greenwald’s opinion of the matter, I think it’s clear that we were fed a false narrative that was used as a weapon by a certain political party. Why? When this stuff turns out not to be true is it fair to disucss it?

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578

      Greenwald actually LINKS a January 8th article raising the doubt about his death AND EXPLAINING THE FIRE EXTINGUISHER.

      https://www.propublica.org/article/officer-brian-sicknick-capitol

      “Before the officer’s death had officially been announced late Thursday, the Sicknick family was rushing from its home in New Jersey to see him in a Washington-area hospital as word circulated on social media that a Capitol Police officer had succumbed to grave injuries.

      Last they had heard, Sicknick was in critical condition on a ventilator, according to family members who spoke to ProPublica. While some news reports had said an unnamed officer was in critical condition after being bludgeoned with a fire extinguisher, family members did not have details of his injuries. They say Sicknick had texted them Wednesday night to say that while he had been pepper-sprayed, he was in good spirits.”

      ******
      Thats TWO DAYS after the event

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578

      Here’s the big lie

      “So crucial was this fairy tale about Sicknick”

      who has said “the insurrection wouldn’t have been so bad if they hadnt killed Sicknick?”

      so the video of them beating a cop arent that bad . . because he didnt die? The cop who was disarmed and then released .. not that bad

      but if black people protest this way, they should die? Looting is worse than beating cops? (“when the looting starts, the shooting starts”)

      how about BOTH are bad?

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3703

        I don’t say that what happened isn’t that bad because the officer didn’t die directly because of it. I just take issue with the weaponization of this story which turned out not to be true.

        As it turns out, as Greenwald mentions, the only people who died were Trump supporters including an unarmed woman who was shot by law enforcement. So the whole black people should be shot for the same activity doesn’t ring true. I think the reaction if a black protester were killed by police durring any of the current protests should be pretty obvious to anyone. We don’t want to go there do we?

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578

      @JBear serious question for you.

      In his article Greenwald says THIS:

      “Because of its centrality to the media narrative and agenda, anyone who tried to point out the serious factual deficiencies in this story — in other words, people trying to be journalists — were smeared by Democratic Party loyalists who pretend to be journalists as “Sicknick Truthers,” white nationalist sympathizers, and supporters of insurrection”

      (Putting aside his whining becuase hes not called a journalist and it hurts him, do you see he says that Sicknicks murder was central to “the media narrative and agenda” sich that if you disagreed you were called a “Sicknick Truther” . . do you see that? Who were his “media” examples (recall hes saying they are not journalists):

      Josh Marshall
      Ryan Cooper
      “Emptywheel” (lol)
      Sleeping Giants

      Not a single one of them is even “media” let alone journalists, right?

      To make it even worse , they are referencing his saying the OPPOSITE on Laura Ingrahm, right? actual “media” with MILLIONS of watchers?

      Grenwald even wins the Twitter battle against them. he has 1.6 MILLION followers, more than all of them combined?

      as usual he is TILTING AT WINDMILLS because the real story is too boring

      Boy, that EmptyWheel tho . .

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3703

        I agree that he has a flair for the dramatic. It doesn’t make his larger point that political considerations could have played a role in the way the story was originally told.

        Also, as he’s pointed out in other articles these types of misstatements can’t be easily reversed. The majority of Americans formed their opinions of what happened at the capital in the days that followed and stories like a Capital police officer being bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher by deranged Trump lunatics surely played a role in that opinion.

        So now months late the truth is finally out there but while I’m listening and you’re listening, most people don’t care, won’t hear about it and certainly won’t change their opinion based on it. The damage was done much in the same way the damage was done in the fake Russian bounties story.

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578

      I agree that he has a flair for the dramatic

      in a Tucker Carlson kind of way

      political considerations could have played a role in the way the story was originally told

      the conspiracy theorists favorite phrase, “could have”

      other articles these types of misstatements can’t be easily reversed. The majority of Americans formed their opinions of what happened at the capital in the days that followed

      I actually agree with this ^^^, BUT ITS WEIRD THAT YOU DO because you didnt hesitate to parrot the Hunter’s laptop story and IIRC downplayed the whole idea of disinformation, especially when I asked why wait to release the story (ie to swing an election), which is basically the same point you make now

      and you actually repeat the same thought here?

      The damage was done much in the same way the damage was done in the fake Russian bounties story.

      SO YOU SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM OF HIGH SPEED INFORMATION AND ITS VALUE TO PEOPLE SEEKING TO SPREAD A LIE . . and yet . . . Hunter?

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3703

        I disagree with your characterization of our previous conversations on the Hunter Biden story.

        I did start a thread when that story came out but I distinctly recall that I never claimed that everything in the story was true or that every assumption made by Trump supporters was necessarily true. My issue was that the story was actively and publicly suppressed. That the story shouldn’t be suppressed.

        These two stories are not equal. You seem to be saying that the hunter story was a lie in the same way that the story that a band of terrorists murdered a police officer by bashing his head in with a fire extinguisher was….not even close to the same thing. First of all the Hunter story was not a lie. Those emails were real. Even hunter never denied it. Some people wanted to claim they said more than they did but that initial post story was not a lie.

        I understand your problem with the hunter story because if it hadn’t been suppressed then some people may have been swayed by spin on a story that has never been proven. That is not the same as the lie that the officer who died at the capital was beaten to death.

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578

      @JBear – hopefully you realize that some would call a “FLAIR FOR THE DRMATIC” . . . LYING, RIGHT ?

      Just like Alex Jones, Tucker Carlson, Hannity .. all people who lied, said they were just being dramatic. Sydney Powell says the same thing

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3703

        Yes I understand that closed minded people might call a flair for the dramatic a lie.

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3703

        Sedition track…..ok.

        But maybe that’s your point?

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578

      January 11th NY Post (hardly a left wing media source lol)

      Moments later, a rioter tosses the fire extinguisher toward a group of officers below, striking one on the helmet. It’s unclear if the cop who was plunked was Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, 42. He died at a hospital Thursday after being hit in the head with a fire extinguisher during the melee, two law enforcement sources told the Associated Press.

      An investigation into Sicknick’s death is ongoing, the sources said.”

      There is a video of the guy throwing the fire extinguisher. It’s tossed underhand form just a few feet and seems to bounce harmlessly of a cops helmet

      That’s January 11th

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3703

        Fair point but the post managed to get the story a lot less wrong.

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578

      Yes I understand that closed minded people might call a flair for the dramatic a lie.

      As opposed to open minded types who change their views with the facts

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3703

        Actually yes…sometimes.

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578

      Fair point but the post managed to get the story a lot less wrong.

      It was one of many. WaPo runs a similar story on 14th

    • adkindo

      Participant
      Post count: 50

      It is important to remember that Brian Sicknick did not ask to be used as a political tool. He and the family he left behind should continue to be respected for his service….and it is terrible that his last day of service had to be used defending the capital against a few hundred citizens of this country. All that said, make no mistake the Democrats and liberal media danced on his grave at the chance to use his death to push a false narrative. They even made a show of it by having his remains lie in honor in the capitol rotunda….an honor that is not appropriate for a law enforcement officer that died of natural causes. Pelosi signed off on this without a shred of evidence to suggest this man died from anything related to January 6th….no other officer or family member that spoke to him was told about any physical assault with a fire extinguisher or any other weapon beyond claiming he was irritated with a chemical spray that he thought was lingering in the building. Anyone that is not repulsed buy the garbage journalism and disgusting dishonesty by elected Democrats in Washington D.C. simply has no interest in the truth.

      An example of garbage journalism supported by our tax dollars…..a NPR headline on 02/02/21…

      Capitol Police Officer Slain By Mob,Lies In Honor In Rotunda

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578

      Pelosi signed off on this without a shred of evidence

      the Capitol Police said he died in service. Still do.

      Btw, the Coroner even says the events of the day played a role.

      I dont recall hearing that he was the one struck by the fire extinguisher, but maybe.

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3703

        Karma there is a link in the Greenwald piece that is about 30 seconds of CNN MSNBC and other left wing pudits saying on air that he was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher.

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578

      FWIW

      https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/loss-uscp-colleague-brian-d-sicknick

      January 7th

      “At approximately 9:30 p.m. this evening (January 7, 2021), United States Capitol Police Officer Brian D. Sicknick passed away due to injuries sustained while on-duty.

      Officer Sicknick was responding to the riots on Wednesday, January 6, 2021, at the U.S. Capitol and was injured while physically engaging with protesters. He returned to his division office and collapsed. He was taken to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries. The death of Officer Sicknick will be investigated by the Metropolitan Police Department’s Homicide Branch, the USCP, and our federal partners.

      Officer Sicknick joined the USCP in July 2008, and most recently served in the Department’s First Responder’s Unit.

      The entire USCP Department expresses its deepest sympathies to Officer Sicknick’s family and friends on their loss, and mourns the loss of a friend and colleague.

      We ask that Officer Sicknick’s family, and other USCP officers’ and their families’ privacy be respected during this time.”

      Its followed by a January 11th statement by the family

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578

      from the NPR article cited above

      “Sicknick, 42, was responding to the riots led by a pro-Trump mob attempting to stop lawmakers from certifying President Biden’s Electoral College victory. Capitol Police said Sicknick was injured “while physically engaging protesters,” adding that he later “returned to his division and collapsed.” Some witnesses said Sicknick had been struck with a fire extinguisher.”

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3703

      the conspiracy theorists favorite phrase, “could have”

      This bothers me too. So you want to me to unequivocally state that something definitely happened when it’s not proved? If I do, you’ll take it apart and claim you’ve proved that my whole argument is “false”. When I say something “could have” happened you say I’m “using the conspiracy theorists favorite phrase”.

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3703

      It is important to remember that Brian Sicknick did not ask to be used as a political tool. He and the family he left behind should continue to be respected for his service….and it is terrible that his last day of service had to be used defending the capital against a few hundred citizens of this country. All that said, make no mistake the Democrats and liberal media danced on his grave at the chance to use his death to push a false narrative. They even made a show of it by having his remains lie in honor in the capitol rotunda….an honor that is not appropriate for a law enforcement officer that died of natural causes. Pelosi signed off on this without a shred of evidence to suggest this man died from anything related to January 6th….no other officer or family member that spoke to him was told about any physical assault with a fire extinguisher or any other weapon beyond claiming he was irritated with a chemical spray that he thought was lingering in the building. Anyone that is not repulsed buy the garbage journalism and disgusting dishonesty by elected Democrats in Washington D.C. simply has no interest in the truth.

      An example of garbage journalism supported by our tax dollars…..a NPR headline on 02/02/21…

      Capitol Police Officer Slain By Mob,Lies In Honor In Rotunda

      Wooaaahhh! Sanity? Here?

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578

      Karma there is a link in the Greenwald piece that is about 30 seconds of CNN MSNBC and other left wing pudits saying on air that he was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher.

      Yeah I actually went back and just saw that. Maybe I knew that before but I always thought the fire extinguishers was an unknown person throwing it at the police line

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578

      The issue though comes down to your perspective. It seems if you are a conservative you see media errors as intentional, a conspiracy to advance a narrative. And you rely heavily (and appropriately I would add) on 24 hour news channels, Twitter etc.

      If your not a today version “conservative” you’re more willing to see this story as poor journalism by the fringe (ie the reporting by WaPo, NYT etc raising the question more quickly). For example, if you understand tgst journalism is REPORTING it’s easy to see why it was REPORTED that he died as a result because that is what the source (Capitol Police) said.

    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3761

      JBear, here you guys go again, trying to deflect from what happened on Jan 6. Weaponization of a story? January 6th did happen. Police were attacked. The capitol was overrun by MAGA, QAnoners and White Supremacists. That was one of the most disgraceful display by Americans in American History. What the cause of death was for this guy doesn’t matter. The guy was hit with a fire extinguisher and then he died. We have known for quite some time that there was probably more to his cause of death than just the extinguisher. But whether he died or not doesn’t matter when it comes to what happened on Jan 6. But what’s almost as disgraceful is trying to minimize what happened that terrible day in our history.

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3703

        Roy this is not deflection. The point is that these proven “Lies” that were spread after the capital insurrection were spread for political reasons. It was a political decision and I think even people like you who badly want the narrative to be true should feel violated. You were lied to. That should make every American mad.

        The “it was an accident” defense is a weak one but anything else is indefensible.

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 127

      adkindo wrote: “Anyone that is not repulsed buy the garbage journalism and disgusting dishonesty by elected Democrats in Washington D.C. simply has no interest in the truth.”

      One of the most truthful sentences posted on this board.

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578

      “The cop didn’t die from the bear spray, so Jan 6th was not that bad”

      Deflection

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3703

        That’s a weak one Karma.

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3703

      The issue though comes down to your perspective. It seems if you are a conservative you see media errors as intentional, a conspiracy to advance a narrative. And you rely heavily (and appropriately I would add) on 24 hour news channels, Twitter etc.

      If your not a today version “conservative” you’re more willing to see this story as poor journalism by the fringe (ie the reporting by WaPo, NYT etc raising the question more quickly). For example, if you understand tgst journalism is REPORTING it’s easy to see why it was REPORTED that he died as a result because that is what the source (Capitol Police) said.

      I agree with you. I may even see the story as poor journalism by the fringe. I mean that I’m not necessarily convinced that it’s some sort of conspiracy. I do think it’s possible but I think it’s more likely just bias that seeps out in the coverage. But again, that is not good journalism.

      Then you have outlets where a certain bent has been institutionalized where anyone coming into those organizations knows pretty quickly which way they are supposed to see the world. Those organizations often could be a business decision as I think you’ve pointed out before. Where it’s concerning though is where media intersects with politics which I think has been happening more and more frequently over the last decades. I’m talking about both sides too. Fox news can start sounding like a mouthpiece of the administration when we have a Republican administration. And that certainly goes for several left leaning outlets as well. You have reporters “getting the chills” when Joe Biden got off the airlplaine in DC.

      You have a lot of recent examples of these outlets parroting the DNC talking points memo’s on proposed legilation etc. Some of this is natural, everything the administration proposes cannot be all bad after all. Surely there must be some good points but it really is getting out of hand. I would really like to see less touting of left wing proposals through tricks of the English Language from my “NEWS”.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5828

      Wins are few and far between these days I see…

      If this is a “win” for you, that he died while on duty and not SD a direct result of the fire extinguisher, then congrats.

      When I read posts by people like akindo, who say the same crap that Greewald says while appearing frequently on Tucker Carleson, I can only laugh.

      Your sanctimonious POV of media, that is blatantly one-sided and blind to the disinformation campaign the right funnels to their viewers to promote a decisive narrative of distrust in professional opinions and dissuade of facts from fiction (or rather fiction from reality)… I can only laugh.

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3703

        and not SD a direct result of the fire extinguisher, then congrats.

        You’re still at it? There was no cop beaten with a Fire Extinguisher. Let it go Fire.

        Your sanctimonious POV of media, that is blatantly one-sided and blind to the disinformation campaign the right funnels to their viewers to promote a decisive narrative of distrust in professional opinions and dissuade of facts from fiction (or rather fiction from reality)… I can only laugh.

        I ask you to just think and your liberal sensibilities are all bruised?

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6106

      Your sanctimonious POV of media, that is blatantly one-sided and blind to the disinformation campaign the right funnels to their viewers to promote a decisive narrative of distrust in professional opinions and dissuade of facts from fiction (or rather fiction from reality)… I can only laugh.

      That’s because you’re a perfect useful idiot, Mr. Mayor.

      https://www.axios.com/media-trust-crisis-2bf0ec1c-00c0-4901-9069-e26b21c283a9.html

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 1578