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    • michael89156

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      Post count: 3229

      Greg Cosell: "Jameis Winston has a long way to go"By Sander Philipse Sep 17, 2015cosell1_zps9cuxqpnm.pngKim Klement-USA TODAY SportsThe Tampa Bay Buccaneers looked like a terrible team on Sunday, and Jameis Winston's debut was disappointing. While not unexpected for a rookie quarterback, Winston looked uncomfortable and not ready for the speed of the NFL. Greg Cosell of NFL Films saw the same thing, and he was concerned about the Bucs, noting that they would not be a good team this year, and Winston -- who he says has to speed up everything he does."I think their offensive line will get better," Greg Cosell said on the FantasyGuru matchup podcast. "Simply because they're starting two rookies and they're likely to improve. But at this point that's a bad mix for Jameis Winston, because Jameis Winston is not the kind of quarterback that can make an average to below-average offensive line better, because he's not a quick-footed guy. He needs to be protected well and effectively and if he's not, he's going to struggle."Cosell noted that the Titans defense moved around a lot to confuse the Bucs' offensive line, and did so successfully. Adjusting to stunts has been an issue for the Bucs for years on end and it's not exactly made better by starting two rookies, who are still adjusting to the speed and power of the NFL. That's an issue that a comfortable pocket quarterback can compensate for to an extent, but Winston's not at the point where he can do that."Jameis Winston is in a tough spot and he has a long way to go," Cosell said on the Midday 180 on 104.5 The Zone. "He really does not have very good feet. He's got a tendency to gather at the top of his drop to get his feet under him, and that's really problematic when he's under center. He's not very comfortable or efficient moving in the pocket, he has to improve in that area. I think because the offensive line he's playing behind is not very good at all, now there's a concern as to whether he'll start to perceive pressure. He actually did that a few times in this game. He's got some issues that he needs to work on, that'll just be made worse as well by the team that he's on."Winston's reaction to pressure was probably the biggest concern for the quarterback to come out of that game, especially so because that was a major strength of his in college and even in the team's second preseason game. I expect his problems in this game to mostly be an artifact of it being his first NFL regular season game, but there's a chance that this is a structural problem -- and that would make it very, very difficult for Winston to consistently succeed in the NFL.The other major problem was his slow and sloppy feet. His footwork was, by and large, a mess and his mechanics continued to be sluggish. As we see so often, quarterbacks can work on their mechanics for months on end only to revert once they hit the field. It's just a really tough thing to fix, but it's something that Winston absolutely has to improve on if he wants to be a quality quarterback. Right now, he's sluggish dropping back and his transition from dropback to set up takes far too long, which hurts every other aspect of the passing game.On the bright side, Winston showed some flashes of quick feet, good dropbacks and good mechanics. Only on a few plays, but the fact that he showed those flashes suggests that it's something he should be able to improve upon with time. Let's hope that improvement happens as quickly as possible.link

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8983

      His footwork will always be a problem.Dude has a hiccup even when hes just walking.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      His footwork will always be a problem.Dude has a hiccup even when hes just walking.

      His footwork will always be a problem.Sort of like your agenda of pure hatred?  So what is the source? Orange and Blue, Mariota-itis? Orange and Green?  Love of lying gold diggers?  what?I suggest he will have a much better chance of improving his footwork than you do with your overall character and agenda which has been consistent this week.When do you celebrate wins more than losses?    ::) Will that ever happen with a BUC win with Winston behind center?  Just curious?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1637

      I wonder if his ankle sprain from the preseason is a little more problematic than we are being led to believe.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      A sloth with 2 left feet in lead boots.Sounds like every great NFL QB before him.Good job Lovie and Licht

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      I wonder if his ankle sprain from the preseason is a little more problematic than we are being led to believe.

      could be...

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1686

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      I wonder if his ankle sprain from the preseason is a little more problematic than we are being led to believe.

      could be...

      Nonsense.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      Ummmmmmm.. baseball? Yea baseball! !!!!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1550

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      What does your eyes tell you? Damn the garbage time numbers. If he played those defenses those three guys played it would have been 10x worse and it was pretty damn bad already.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      These Mariota nut huggers obviously have an agenda. After the game the Bucs just played I fully expected this. I just hope they realise that Winston is going to shut them up......hopefully sooner rather than later.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      What does your eyes tell you? Damn the garbage time numbers. If he played those defenses those three guys played it would have been 10x worse and it was pretty damn bad already.

      Making excuses for the other guys while bashing our guy? As if those guys never had bad days. Man, I see why other fans think Bucs fans are the worst. We are!

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9128

      These Mariota nut huggers obviously have an agenda.

      No different than the one the Winston-Slurpers have.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1686

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      Garbage numbers when the game was out of hand. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week against a BAD Titans defense. I didn't say anything about he was going to perform this week, but because you can't seem to grasp what I wrote, I bolded it for you. Winston SUCKED last week and his pathetic pick six ended the game. The life went out of the stadium and that was the end of that.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Winston SUCKED last week and his pathetic pick six ended the game. The life went out of the stadium and that was the end of that.

      It pains me to say it, but this is true.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2630

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      +1.They've made the board unreadable the past week.I don't think I've ever seen such lack of support from a fanbase for their rookie QB after 1 game. A good percentage of this board HATES our own QB and has been trashing him non stop because he had a poor first career NFL start. Beyond pathetic. Do you think Colts fans had this type of reaction when Luck threw 3 INT's game one? I know the situations are different, but my god...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Why is Cosell considered an expert?  All rookie QB’s have a long way to go.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Why is Cosell considered an expert?  All rookie QB's have a long way to go.

      I agree... especially the ones with 2 clubbed feet.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      Well, to be all around fair, Luck, Manning, and Flacco all played against really good defenses that were relentless and not below average defenses that stopped playing at all in the 2nd half.  Bradford wasn't all that great, but he did have a better passer rating, so...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1637

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      +1.They've made the board unreadable the past week.I don't think I've ever seen such lack of support from a fanbase for their rookie QB after 1 game. A good percentage of this board HATES our own QB and has been trashing him non stop because he had a poor first career NFL start. Beyond pathetic. Do you think Colts fans had this type of reaction when Luck threw 3 INT's game one? I know the situations are different, but my god...

      +1 For real. It's like anyone who still has hope that Winston improves is a "Winston-Slurper" or a FSU Homer. Can't possibly be that we don't want to burn the kid at the stake after his first rookie game.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1637

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      Well, to be all around fair, Luck, Manning, and Flacco all played against really good defenses that were relentless and not below average defenses that stopped playing at all in the 2nd half.  Bradford wasn't all that great, but he did have a better passer rating, so...

      Yea it's not like Dick LeBeau is gonna be in the Hall of Fame or anything....A lots of people keep saying Tennessee's defense is garbage. But you can't really base that off of 2014. It's a new year. They added some pieces and most importantly, added Dick Lebeau.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      +1.They've made the board unreadable the past week.I don't think I've ever seen such lack of support from a fanbase for their rookie QB after 1 game. A good percentage of this board HATES our own QB and has been trashing him non stop because he had a poor first career NFL start. Beyond pathetic. Do you think Colts fans had this type of reaction when Luck threw 3 INT's game one? I know the situations are different, but my god...

      Agree... From total exaggeration to anyone that is remotely an advocate of Winston to an agenda of pure hatred towards the guy.  Shame on them! shame on all of them!Like I stated either their college football affiliation has fried their brain or they really aren't Buc fans. It is rather sickening.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      Winston SUCKED last week and his pathetic pick six ended the game. The life went out of the stadium and that was the end of that.

      It pains me to say it, but this is true.

      ANYBODY that was in the stadium will testify this to be the truth!!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      Well, to be all around fair, Luck, Manning, and Flacco all played against really good defenses that were relentless and not below average defenses that stopped playing at all in the 2nd half.  Bradford wasn't all that great, but he did have a better passer rating, so...

      Yea it's not like Dick LeBeau is gonna be in the Hall of Fame or anything....A lots of people keep saying Tennessee's defense is garbage. But you can't really base that off of 2014. It's a new year. They added some pieces and most importantly, added Dick Lebeau.

      Yes, and you have only 1 game this year to go off of.  In about 7 or 8 weeks, we'll have a better idea of what Tennessee is, but for now, I'm not going to give them any credit - as no one should - based off of one game.  You know, the same thing you're banging the Winston-haters for.Just for clarity, in case you've missed any of my other posts, I blame Sunday purely on Lovie Smith.  I'm fine to wait and see about Winston.  I think his short-comings from Sunday was due to a lack of proper coaching.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      Yea it's not like Dick LeBeau is gonna be in the Hall of Fame or anything....A lots of people keep saying Tennessee's defense is garbage. But you can't really base that off of 2014. It's a new year. They added some pieces and most importantly, added Dick Lebeau.

      Yup LeBeau is go great that he beat the Bucs ass last year as the Defensive Coordinator while he was with the Steelers last year...oh wait...and with a "backup" QB nonetheless...hmmmm

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Hey everyone let’s pretend our legendary “pro ready since high school, already better than half the QBs in the league, lebron james but way more clutch, doesn’t even know how great he can be because this is the first time he focused solely on football, i think he’s better than Luck” rookie QB didn’t look like dog ish out there.. let’s close our eyes, forget all of that big talk and pretend.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      I desperately want Freshman Jameis to come into the spotlight. That level of success and ball security, confidence, accuracy even…but it got worse. I am sure he is putting on a good face, but the media scrutiny regarding his character, to celebrities putting him on blast for his thievery, his rape allegations and law suit…the crappy state of affairs regarding the team as a whole…well, I am of the mindset that at this point in time, screw everyone on the team except for Jameis Effing Winston. With him, the Bucs need to clean house and build an O-line to support him. Get him a big bruising running attack, not the runts we have that aren't even that fast nor shifty (but props to Muscle Hamster for bouncing back). Give him Evans and a big tight end, a big Oline, and go from there. Have a fire sale, even Gmac. Get what you can for the players we have, and fire Lovie, get a new coach and hand him a team with a potential franchise QB, and a plethora of draft picks and some pieces to work with on offense. Go from there. But the team needs to try, and I stress try, to surround the number one overall draft pick everything he needs to propel this franchise into consistent playoff contenders. This is a different NFL, Lovie isn't quick enough on the fly and not innovative enough (i.e. Not willing to alter his game), to be relevant anymore. The Bucs are wasting time with Lovie. Flat out truth.  Manning debut came a long time ago when the league allowed you to get rough with the wideouts and earhole a QB from time to time. Ribs were blown up with aplomb. Safeties like Goldson and Swearinger put the fear of God into wideouts and tight ends. Today's game is suited for a gunslinger. And Jameis could be that. But he has a stupid coach, an awful offensive line, no speed with the skill players, and he is doing too much. Playbook needs to be Jameis friendly. And that requires my plan. Fire sale. Get rid of them all for the best draft picks you can get. And fire all is and get a new coach and arm him with the picks, and a few pieces, and a potential stud QB. At the moment, Jameis is set up to fail. He cannot succeed with this team as is, there is too much turnover and inexperience, and not enough time for it all to be cohesive. That said, Lovie has to go. His time has come. He hasn't evolved, and he is going extinct.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 413

      Winston SUCKED last week and his pathetic pick six ended the game. The life went out of the stadium and that was the end of that.

      It pains me to say it, but this is true.

      ANYBODY that was in the stadium will testify this to be the truth!!

      I was at the stadium and I totally disagree.  It was in the first quarter! You have to be a pretty strong pessimist to think that one mistake in the first quarter ends a game. The play that probably ended the game early was the failed conversion on 4th and 1 that was overturned on the challenge.  Especially considering the defense let them walk down the field and score another TD after the turnover on downs.The thing that did happen on the pick 6 is that crap fans started turning on Winston and the team, going to that same old toxic and defeatist attitude "here we go again," "we picked the wrong guy," etc.  It was not a great game, but I still rooted my team.  That includes our rookie QB.  For the haters, the pick 6 sealed his fate as a bust.  I'm going to wait for a slightly bigger sample size before drawing any conclusions.

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    • Stratobuc

      Participant
      Post count: 29

      Getting rid of everybody but Winston???  Should have drafted an OLINE an DLINE…Winston should ride the pine and played backup minutes in preseason.  Bench his ass and fire Lovie.  Pick up the pieces from there.Giving Freeman the starters job was his undoing.  Same thing for Winston.They must earn it by outplaying the supposed inferior QBs.  And trading away all the QBs is not the answer to them earning the starting job.

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      I desperately want Freshman Jameis to come into the spotlight. That level of success and ball security, confidence, accuracy even...but it got worse. I am sure he is putting on a good face, but the media scrutiny regarding his character, to celebrities putting him on blast for his thievery, his rape allegations and law suit...the crappy state of affairs regarding the team as a whole...well, I am of the mindset that at this point in time, screw everyone on the team except for Jameis Effing Winston. With him, the Bucs need to clean house and build an O-line to support him. Get him a big bruising running attack, not the runts we have that aren't even that fast nor shifty (but props to Muscle Hamster for bouncing back). Give him Evans and a big tight end, a big Oline, and go from there. Have a fire sale, even Gmac. Get what you can for the players we have, and fire Lovie, get a new coach and hand him a team with a potential franchise QB, and a plethora of draft picks and some pieces to work with on offense. Go from there. But the team needs to try, and I stress try, to surround the number one overall draft pick everything he needs to propel this franchise into consistent playoff contenders. This is a different NFL, Lovie isn't quick enough on the fly and not innovative enough (i.e. Not willing to alter his game), to be relevant anymore. The Bucs are wasting time with Lovie. Flat out truth.  Manning debut came a long time ago when the league allowed you to get rough with the wideouts and earhole a QB from time to time. Ribs were blown up with aplomb. Safeties like Goldson and Swearinger put the fear of God into wideouts and tight ends. Today's game is suited for a gunslinger. And Jameis could be that. But he has a stupid coach, an awful offensive line, no speed with the skill players, and he is doing too much. Playbook needs to be Jameis friendly. And that requires my plan. Fire sale. Get rid of them all for the best draft picks you can get. And fire all is and get a new coach and arm him with the picks, and a few pieces, and a potential stud QB. At the moment, Jameis is set up to fail. He cannot succeed with this team as is, there is too much turnover and inexperience, and not enough time for it all to be cohesive. That said, Lovie has to go. His time has come. He hasn't evolved, and he is going extinct.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1637

      Yea it's not like Dick LeBeau is gonna be in the Hall of Fame or anything....A lots of people keep saying Tennessee's defense is garbage. But you can't really base that off of 2014. It's a new year. They added some pieces and most importantly, added Dick Lebeau.

      Yup LeBeau is go great that he beat the Bucs ass last year as the Defensive Coordinator while he was with the Steelers last year...oh wait...and with a "backup" QB nonetheless...hmmmm

      You're going to throw out Lebeaus 50+ years of experience and 26-3 record vs rookie QBs becuase we got a fluke win vs them last year? SMH...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1637

      Just for clarity, in case you've missed any of my other posts, I blame Sunday purely on Lovie Smith.  I'm fine to wait and see about Winston.  I think his short-comings from Sunday was due to a lack of proper coaching.

      I'd agree with you on this mostly. I'd blame the loss on Lovie because the defense looked like trash. I don't think he has too much to do in Jameis' development, at least I hope not. I think Jameis just reverted to bad habits while under pressure. Koetter and Bajakian can hopefully continue to work this stuff out.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      Yea it's not like Dick LeBeau is gonna be in the Hall of Fame or anything....A lots of people keep saying Tennessee's defense is garbage. But you can't really base that off of 2014. It's a new year. They added some pieces and most importantly, added Dick Lebeau.

      Yup LeBeau is go great that he beat the Bucs ass last year as the Defensive Coordinator while he was with the Steelers last year...oh wait...and with a "backup" QB nonetheless...hmmmm

      You're going to throw out Lebeaus 50+ years of experience and 26-3 record vs rookie QBs becuase we got a fluke win vs them last year? SMH...

      Of course not, but it's not a damn excuse for Winston's poor play. He is not the end all be all for DCs...if that were the case, he would still be a Steeler.Face it...Jaboo is NOT as good as advertised. I know it is only one game, but damn, he looked like a "drunk ostrich" out there on Sunday. I am not ready to bury him yet...hell, I WANT him to be good so I can see my team win again...but, it's not looking good. His performances since putting on the Buc uniform...are not anything to crow about.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Getting rid of everybody but Winston???  Should have drafted an OLINE an DLINE...Winston should ride the pine and played backup minutes in preseason.  Bench his ass and fire Lovie.  Pick up the pieces from there.Giving Freeman the starters job was his undoing.  Same thing for Winston.They must earn it by outplaying the supposed inferior QBs.  And trading away all the QBs is not the answer to them earning the starting job.

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      I desperately want Freshman Jameis to come into the spotlight. That level of success and ball security, confidence, accuracy even...but it got worse. I am sure he is putting on a good face, but the media scrutiny regarding his character, to celebrities putting him on blast for his thievery, his rape allegations and law suit...the crappy state of affairs regarding the team as a whole...well, I am of the mindset that at this point in time, screw everyone on the team except for Jameis Effing Winston. With him, the Bucs need to clean house and build an O-line to support him. Get him a big bruising running attack, not the runts we have that aren't even that fast nor shifty (but props to Muscle Hamster for bouncing back). Give him Evans and a big tight end, a big Oline, and go from there. Have a fire sale, even Gmac. Get what you can for the players we have, and fire Lovie, get a new coach and hand him a team with a potential franchise QB, and a plethora of draft picks and some pieces to work with on offense. Go from there. But the team needs to try, and I stress try, to surround the number one overall draft pick everything he needs to propel this franchise into consistent playoff contenders. This is a different NFL, Lovie isn't quick enough on the fly and not innovative enough (i.e. Not willing to alter his game), to be relevant anymore. The Bucs are wasting time with Lovie. Flat out truth.  Manning debut came a long time ago when the league allowed you to get rough with the wideouts and earhole a QB from time to time. Ribs were blown up with aplomb. Safeties like Goldson and Swearinger put the fear of God into wideouts and tight ends. Today's game is suited for a gunslinger. And Jameis could be that. But he has a stupid coach, an awful offensive line, no speed with the skill players, and he is doing too much. Playbook needs to be Jameis friendly. And that requires my plan. Fire sale. Get rid of them all for the best draft picks you can get. And fire all is and get a new coach and arm him with the picks, and a few pieces, and a potential stud QB. At the moment, Jameis is set up to fail. He cannot succeed with this team as is, there is too much turnover and inexperience, and not enough time for it all to be cohesive. That said, Lovie has to go. His time has come. He hasn't evolved, and he is going extinct.

      I am not a believer of Glennon as a franchise QB. Nornisnhengood enough to be a solid game manager should the Bucs hit the playoffs. Just my opinion. I think Jameis has monster potential. Keep Smith, Marpet, Evans…ASJ if he continues to upside his game. Blow the rest of it up. Fifth round picks. Sixths. Whoever wants a player from the defensive side, for the right price they can go. Arm the new regime with picks. Lovie has to go. And investing a first pick in a QB will take logic and fair teM comps and pitch them out the window for at least two years. Winston has two years. But man, he cannot make it with this team. It is a bad, bad team. Deeply disappointed by Lavonte and his comments as well. What a cowardly, weak, and pathetic thing to say. Strip that C off his chest, and burn it.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2188

      Should be interesting to revisit this thread and all the other Jameis hate threads after Sunday. Mariota might find things a bit tougher this week. Danny Shelton won’t let Bishop Sankey run and Haden will cover Wright. Plus those Oregon duck read option plays are on film now.What will the Premature Haters do if Winston outplays Mariota this week?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 337

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      +1.They've made the board unreadable the past week.I don't think I've ever seen such lack of support from a fanbase for their rookie QB after 1 game. A good percentage of this board HATES our own QB and has been trashing him non stop because he had a poor first career NFL start. Beyond pathetic. Do you think Colts fans had this type of reaction when Luck threw 3 INT's game one? I know the situations are different, but my god...

      The fanbase was told that #ProReady wouldn't have a steep learning curve coming into the league, that they could "throw the whole playbook at him" and things would be OK, since #ProReady is a football genius. That turned out to be a lie, it would seem.Beyond that, #ProReady is never going to get the benefit of the doubt from people. Ever. He's used up all 9 of his lives ducking a rape case (that you better believe a regular citizen would've been charged with) and then being an unapologetic misogynist and a thief.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 177

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      +1.They've made the board unreadable the past week.I don't think I've ever seen such lack of support from a fanbase for their rookie QB after 1 game. A good percentage of this board HATES our own QB and has been trashing him non stop because he had a poor first career NFL start. Beyond pathetic. Do you think Colts fans had this type of reaction when Luck threw 3 INT's game one? I know the situations are different, but my god...

      Truly sad, isn't it?  I'd expect the fans to be wondering why McCoy and LVD didn't show up.  How about our veteran receiver going "operation shutdown" with the media after the game, and letting the young guys take the bullets by themselves?  Apparently not a big deal.  Call out Lovie?  Absolutely.  Heck, I even think it is justifiable to question Koetter given the fact that a number of commentators have questioned whether the Bucs are doing anything with the game plan to help Winston acclimate to the league.  But, to spew THIS MUCH disdain for a rookie QB after his first game is simply incredible. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Should be interesting to revisit this thread and all the other Jameis hate threads after Sunday. Mariota might find things a bit tougher this week. Danny Shelton won't let Bishop Sankey run and Haden will cover Wright. Plus those Oregon duck read option plays are on film now.What will the Premature Haters do if Winston outplays Mariota this week?

      What will the excuse machines do if he doesn't?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      +1.They've made the board unreadable the past week.I don't think I've ever seen such lack of support from a fanbase for their rookie QB after 1 game. A good percentage of this board HATES our own QB and has been trashing him non stop because he had a poor first career NFL start. Beyond pathetic. Do you think Colts fans had this type of reaction when Luck threw 3 INT's game one? I know the situations are different, but my god...

      Truly sad, isn't it?  I'd expect the fans to be wondering why McCoy and LVD didn't show up.  How about our veteran receiver going "operation shutdown" with the media after the game, and letting the young guys take the bullets by themselves?  Apparently not a big deal.  Call out Lovie?  Absolutely.  Heck, I even think it is justifiable to question Koetter given the fact that a number of commentators have questioned whether the Bucs are doing anything with the game plan to help Winston acclimate to the league.  But, to spew THIS MUCH disdain for a rookie QB after his first game is simply incredible.

      You must have missed the spew before he revealed himself to be what he has shown us this far.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Why is Cosell considered an expert?  All rookie QB's have a long way to go.

      I agree... especially the ones with 2 clubbed feet.

      And ones that have yet to complete a pass beyond 50 yards.  All rookies take time to develop.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2188

      Should be interesting to revisit this thread and all the other Jameis hate threads after Sunday. Mariota might find things a bit tougher this week. Danny Shelton won't let Bishop Sankey run and Haden will cover Wright. Plus those Oregon duck read option plays are on film now.What will the Premature Haters do if Winston outplays Mariota this week?

      What will the excuse machines do if he doesn't?

      You mean the Bucs fans with some patience for a rookie QB? You think your boy Mariota lights it up again this week? Or comes back to earth?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Should be interesting to revisit this thread and all the other Jameis hate threads after Sunday. Mariota might find things a bit tougher this week. Danny Shelton won't let Bishop Sankey run and Haden will cover Wright. Plus those Oregon duck read option plays are on film now.What will the Premature Haters do if Winston outplays Mariota this week?

      What will the excuse machines do if he doesn't?

      You mean the Bucs fans with some patience for a rookie QB? You think your boy Mariota lights it up again this week? Or comes back to earth?

      I do not know why people talk trash about the Titans or Browns defenses  Both have potent, and powerful front sevens.  The difference is the Browns are healthy in the secondary and have ball hawks back there.  It will be a good game and a new test for Mariota.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Why is Cosell considered an expert?  All rookie QB's have a long way to go.

      I agree... especially the ones with 2 clubbed feet.

      And ones that have yet to complete a pass beyond 50 yards.  All rookies take time to develop.

      I agree. Some rookies even have to build off of a perfect game from last week while still developing.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Should be interesting to revisit this thread and all the other Jameis hate threads after Sunday. Mariota might find things a bit tougher this week. Danny Shelton won't let Bishop Sankey run and Haden will cover Wright. Plus those Oregon duck read option plays are on film now.What will the Premature Haters do if Winston outplays Mariota this week?

      What will the excuse machines do if he doesn't?

      You mean the Bucs fans with some patience for a rookie QB? You think your boy Mariota lights it up again this week? Or comes back to earth?

      The board will go full idiot mode either way. It's a marathon folks, not a sprint.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1845

      Should be interesting to revisit this thread and all the other Jameis hate threads after Sunday. Mariota might find things a bit tougher this week. Danny Shelton won't let Bishop Sankey run and Haden will cover Wright. Plus those Oregon duck read option plays are on film now.What will the Premature Haters do if Winston outplays Mariota this week?

      What will the excuse machines do if he doesn't?

      You mean the Bucs fans with some patience for a rookie QB? You think your boy Mariota lights it up again this week? Or comes back to earth?

      I do not know why people talk trash about the Titans or Browns defenses  Both have potent, and powerful front sevens.  The difference is the Browns are healthy in the secondary and have ball hawks back there.  It will be a good game and a new test for Mariota.

      I wonder if Koetter will have new wrinkles, since N.O.'s defense has film of his system from Atlanta, although with Winstone-feet under center, maybe it doesn't matter.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 177

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      +1.They've made the board unreadable the past week.I don't think I've ever seen such lack of support from a fanbase for their rookie QB after 1 game. A good percentage of this board HATES our own QB and has been trashing him non stop because he had a poor first career NFL start. Beyond pathetic. Do you think Colts fans had this type of reaction when Luck threw 3 INT's game one? I know the situations are different, but my god...

      Truly sad, isn't it?  I'd expect the fans to be wondering why McCoy and LVD didn't show up.  How about our veteran receiver going "operation shutdown" with the media after the game, and letting the young guys take the bullets by themselves?  Apparently not a big deal.  Call out Lovie?  Absolutely.  Heck, I even think it is justifiable to question Koetter given the fact that a number of commentators have questioned whether the Bucs are doing anything with the game plan to help Winston acclimate to the league.  But, to spew THIS MUCH disdain for a rookie QB after his first game is simply incredible.

      You must have missed the spew before he revealed himself to be what he has shown us this far.

      So, you are admitting that many of you never intended to give him a chance?  Makes more sense now. Glad to know that he was doomed before we even picked him. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      +1.They've made the board unreadable the past week.I don't think I've ever seen such lack of support from a fanbase for their rookie QB after 1 game. A good percentage of this board HATES our own QB and has been trashing him non stop because he had a poor first career NFL start. Beyond pathetic. Do you think Colts fans had this type of reaction when Luck threw 3 INT's game one? I know the situations are different, but my god...

      Truly sad, isn't it?  I'd expect the fans to be wondering why McCoy and LVD didn't show up.  How about our veteran receiver going "operation shutdown" with the media after the game, and letting the young guys take the bullets by themselves?  Apparently not a big deal.  Call out Lovie?  Absolutely.  Heck, I even think it is justifiable to question Koetter given the fact that a number of commentators have questioned whether the Bucs are doing anything with the game plan to help Winston acclimate to the league.  But, to spew THIS MUCH disdain for a rookie QB after his first game is simply incredible.

      You must have missed the spew before he revealed himself to be what he has shown us this far.

      So, you are admitting that many of you never intended to give him a chance?  Makes more sense now. Glad to know that he was doomed before we even picked him.

      People didn't want Lovie or Winston.  Personally speaking,  Lovie wouldn't be my first choice but with the way Morris imploded and Schiano followed that up with a larger implosion I can see the Glazers going with a proven commodity.  However, Lovie is making Morris and Schiano look like Hall of Famers for coaching up lesser talent at this point.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Should be interesting to revisit this thread and all the other Jameis hate threads after Sunday. Mariota might find things a bit tougher this week. Danny Shelton won't let Bishop Sankey run and Haden will cover Wright. Plus those Oregon duck read option plays are on film now.What will the Premature Haters do if Winston outplays Mariota this week?

      What will the excuse machines do if he doesn't?

      You mean the Bucs fans with some patience for a rookie QB? You think your boy Mariota lights it up again this week? Or comes back to earth?

      I don't think he'll dog walk the Browns like he dog walked the team that passed up on him for an inferior product that peaked 2 years ago but he can sure throw a downfield block, but I think Mariota have some success. This is the NFL, teams will have tape on what he did to show up the chumps that didn't like his "personality", so he may not be perfect. The bad thing tho is teams now have tape on our starting wet chicken too. Let's hope he gets better... Go Bucs!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1845

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      +1.They've made the board unreadable the past week.I don't think I've ever seen such lack of support from a fanbase for their rookie QB after 1 game. A good percentage of this board HATES our own QB and has been trashing him non stop because he had a poor first career NFL start. Beyond pathetic. Do you think Colts fans had this type of reaction when Luck threw 3 INT's game one? I know the situations are different, but my god...

      Truly sad, isn't it?  I'd expect the fans to be wondering why McCoy and LVD didn't show up.  How about our veteran receiver going "operation shutdown" with the media after the game, and letting the young guys take the bullets by themselves?  Apparently not a big deal.  Call out Lovie?  Absolutely.  Heck, I even think it is justifiable to question Koetter given the fact that a number of commentators have questioned whether the Bucs are doing anything with the game plan to help Winston acclimate to the league.  But, to spew THIS MUCH disdain for a rookie QB after his first game is simply incredible.

      You must have missed the spew before he revealed himself to be what he has shown us this far.

      So, you are admitting that many of you never intended to give him a chance?  Makes more sense now. Glad to know that he was doomed before we even picked him.

      His chance is right now, so far he and his offensive teammates are proving the doubters correct. (we all know Lovie sux, so we expect the defense to be bad). And it's making the Winston slurpers mad and they go into reactionary defense mode."it's only one game""his footwork was great for a rookie""Manning had a bad first game too"instead of defending him, the slurpers just need to admit he played poorly, just like the rest of his team, and hope that he improves and doesn't become a 1st round pick that peaked in college. He's our qb now, and we have to hope he gets better and helps the team.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      So, you are admitting that many of you never intended to give him a chance?  Makes more sense now. Glad to know that he was doomed before we even picked him.

      From NFL.com

      Weaknesses Decision making not consistent with his football intelligence. Will throw into impossible windows rather than taking safe throw underneath. Elongated windup and release allows instinctive defenders to close on throws. Was too easily baited into dangerous throws. Struggled with intermediate passing game in 2014, completing 56.8 percent of his passes with FBS-leading 11 interceptions in that range. Still learning nuances of position and how to move and hold defenders with his eyes. Would sleepwalk through first half of many games. Inconsistent footwork and weight transfer caused balls to sail. Prone to emotional outbursts on field. Quality of decision-making drops off substantially when pocket becomes turbulent and he's forced to leave it. Lacks athleticism to extend plays for very long outside of the pocket. Off-the-field character and ability to lead on NFL level are his primary obstacles, according to NFL evaluators. 

      From CBSSports

      WEAKNESSES: Where he's causing scouts to question his pro-readiness is off the field where a series of questionable incidents have raised concerns his maturity and character, including a sexual assault charge, shoplifting and using vulgar language in the student union. Some teams may take Winston off their boards entirely. Some scouts also believe he needs to quicken and shorten his delivery in order to be consistently successful at the next level, as he tends to wind up when he throws, lacking the quick release NFL teams desire. He has NFL arm strength, so the elongated delivery was not a big issue at the college level. Winston still has a tendency to stare down his targets and will make poor decisions with the ball down the field when hemmed between the tackles and forced to get rid of the ball under pressure. At times, he'll backpedal and throw while off-balance, rather than stepping into his throws, negating his natural throwing power. He has proven especially vulnerable to underneath defenders dropping in front of his intended targets - a significant issue given the frequency of zone-blitzes in the NFL as compared to college.  

      From Dallas News:

      He throws picks at a high rate and they are often nobody’s fault but his own.  He will throw off his back foot into a crowd of defenders that make you think he is out to lunch at the most important position on the field for a guy who is always locked in. His ability to read coverages that are meant to trick him seems very elementary at this point and this combined with his abundance of (irrational) confidence is another red flag that is difficult to project. His accuracy is also frustrating for a guy who has had this much success.  Needless to say, on a player where people talk constantly about his off-field conduct, I have many concerns about what the game tape shows, despite the fact that he won almost every game he ever played in.

      Many of these traits were on full display against the Titans...

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      “Abundance of (irrational) confidence.”LOL

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      "Abundance of (irrational) confidence."LOL

      OH, that caught my eye as well. I do hope it become rational...

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      "Abundance of (irrational) confidence."LOL

      OH, that caught my eye as well. I do hope it become rational...

      I do too. We don't get any do overs.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 172

      Nobody has ever said people can’t criticize Winston’s poor play in his debut. It’s the trolls who claim that his career is not going to improve at all after ONE GAME.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      Let’s see……I know I left the butter around here somewhere. I hate it when I have to eat my popcorn without butter.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      MarineBuc – I love that you used draft analysis from Bob Sturm, a Dallas sports radio host. Where's Dumb Dog's take?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      MarineBuc - I love that you used draft analysis from Bob Sturm, a Dallas sports radio host. Where's Dumb Dog's take?

      I just grabbed the first three that I could find....his is not much different than the other two.

      Please wait…

    • Stratobuc

      Participant
      Post count: 29

      Nobody has ever said people can't criticize Winston's poor play in his debut. It's the trolls who claim that his career is not going to improve at all after ONE GAME.

      Winston will make a good backup QB in this league once he gets more experience.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 143

      I Would Take Marcus Mariota over Jameis Winston Every Day of the Week and Twice on Sunday.I am not a huge fan of the NFL Combine, but is has become increasingly popular year after year. ESPN reported that the NFL, gave out 1,071 press credentials…that is more than most NFL playoff games. I think the Combine can be a useful tool in interviewing players and getting a feel for their personality and work ethic, but it is not a “tell-all”. Teddy Bridgewater had a horrible pro day last year, yet the Minnesota Vikings quarterback had a successful rookie year. (Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Year (2014)NFC North Rookie of the Year (2014), 2014 PFWA All-Rookie Team). New England Patriots quarterback, Tom Brady, had a horrible combine, but he is one of the greatest quarterback’s in the history of the NFL. (I attached his combine link below…)The biggest question coming into the 2015 draft is…who should be the #1 pick, Marcus Mariota or Jameis Winston? There has been heated debates on television, talk radio and social media regarding these two great college quarterbacks. There is no direct science when predicting these things, Brady is living proof of that. He was drafted in the 6th round and was the #199 pick in the 2000 draft. All writers, and broadcasters can do is make an educated guess. After watching a ton of games and film on both players, here is why I would take Mariota over Winston every day of the week and twice on Sunday.The biggest “Knock” or question mark about Mariota is that he is a “system quarterback”. Once again, the lazy media hasn’t done their homework. I expect this from lazy fans but not broadcasters who are making millions of dollars. There is no such thing as a system quarterback!! Did anyone watch the Patriots against the Ravens in the playoffs or against Seattle in the Super Bowl? In the 2nd half against Baltimore, New England didn’t call 1 running play for their running backs. Against Seattle, Tom Brady threw the ball 50 times! All from the shotgun, all under 20 yards. There is no such thing as a “system quarterback” It takes great players, like Brady or Mariota, to make THAT system work. New York Knicks President, Phil Jacksons has a system, the triangle offense. The Knicks have a record of 10-45, does that mean Jackson’s system no longer works? No, what it means is, PLAYERS make the system, (Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant) the system doesn’t make the player.Another “knock” or question mark about Mariota is that he can’t make throws from the pocket. Again, do your homework media! Mariota was 2nd in the country in completion percentage (over 70%) when throwing from the pocket.  Mariota can make all the throws, if anyone has watched film or the Combine, he has proven that. Against the best defensive teams that he faced all year long, Michigan State, UCLA, Arizona (PAC-12 Championship Game) and Florida State. Mariota was 85 for 129, 65.8 completion %, averaged 295 yards passing, 53 yards rushing, 3.75 total touchdowns and only 1 interception in those four games. Mariota played his best games when Oregon played better defensive teams. I watched him read his progressions and hit the 2nd or 3rd option, numerous times.What most fans and media don’t realize is that Winston took a huge step backwards from his first year as a starter at Florida State. Winston threw 25 touchdown passes and had 18 interceptions. When he won the Heisman Trophy, Winston had 40 touchdown passes and only 10 interceptions.  Winston had 15 interceptions where the ball was thrown for over 20 yards. That was the worst out of any of any quarterback who plays in a Power 5 Conference. It was the second worst, in the entire country. Co-host Mike Greenberg of ESPN’s Mike and Mike in the Morning said, “I know Winston threw a lot of interceptions down the field, but that doesn’t concern me because it means he can throw the ball deep.” I respect Mike Greenberg, his show and career. But, this has to be one of the dumbest comments ever made. Mike and Mike have become “teflon” and no one ever criticizes them.Saying that Winston’s interceptions don’t matter because it proves he can throw the ball downfield couldn’t be further from the truth. It proves that teams have adjusted to his tendencies. He obviously locks on to receivers downfield or doesn’t look off the safety.  I haven’t played an organized football game in years, yet I can put on pads, a helmet and throw the ball twenty yards. To Quote Vince Vaughn from the 2005 movie Wedding Crashers, “I was first-team All-State. I can put the ball wherever I want to. I’ll make it rain out here.”Just because someone can throw the ball 20 yards, “Greeny”, that doesn’t make them a pro quarterback. Jeff George had one of the best arms I have ever seen, and his career was very disappointing.  In order to be a successful NFL quarterback you can’t throw 2 to 3 interceptions in the first half consistently. NFL teams will make you pay for that and you won’t be able to come back from a 10-21 point deficit.One of the most common themes during the combines, “Winston is more NFL ready than Mariota.” I don’t really know what that means? If you are going to “kill” Mariota because Oregon quarterbacks put up great numbers, than you have to “kill ” Florida State coach Jimbo Fisher as well. Here is a list of quarterbacks he has coached. None of them have had long-term success in the NFL:•Josh Booty, sixth round, 2001•Rohan Davey, fourth round, 2002•Craig Nall, fifth round, 2002•Matt Mauck, seventh round, 2004•JaMarcus Russell, first overall, 2007•Matt Flynn, seventh round, 2008•Christian Ponder, first round, 2011•EJ Manuel, first round, 2013Both Winston and Mariota made the throws they were supposed to make during the Combine. What was so disappointing was Winston’s cocky, immature and disrespectful attitude.  When the quarterbacks were throwing, everyone was clapping for each other and being supportive. In one drill, Winston was the last quarterback to throw. He yells out two or three times, “Saving the best for last, saving the best for last!” Even if he thinks that, why would you say that with the cameras on and the other quarterbacks behind you watching? It was beyond disrespectful. As a former coach and player, I never talked trash first, but if someone said something to me, it was on! If I was Mariota, I would have said,” You weren’t the best this year, I was!” but Mariota is too classy and humble to do that. After Mariota and Winston were done with their workouts they joined the NFL network crew for interviews. Someone asked Mariota, “Since you spent so much time with Winston, have you brought up the Rose Bowl game?” (Mariota and Oregon embarrassed Winston and Florida State in this year’s Rose Bowl, 59-20.) Mariota’s response was classy, “No sir, I would never bring that up to him or any other FSU player.” Winston laughed and responded, “Well he better not bring it up, because I got a ring, they whipped us, but we got a ring at Florida State.”There is no doubt that Winston has great talent and ability, but his character is a huge question mark, so is his attitude. Forget the fact that he stole crab legs from a local super market, forget the fact that he was suspended for yelling obscenities in a student center rally. That is not immaturity, my niece, at 8 years old knew not to steal or curse out loud in public. Winston isn’t immature he just has character  issues and decision making flaws. Besides Ben Roethlisberger, I can’t think of one quarterback who came into the league with character questions who has been successful. Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell and Johnny Manziel have all been busts. What is so disturbing about Winston is that he had to lose 15-20lbs before the combines. Most of you have seen the pictures of a fat Jameis Winston.He just came off an embarrassing loss in the college  playoffs, there are tons of questions about his off the field antics yet he gained all this weight? I have written numerous articles during the college football season that Winston looked fat to me. This was the most important work out of his life and Winston was “doughy” Also, Winston’s hand size is 9 3/8. Quarterbacks with that hand size or smaller don’t succeed in the NFL. Only San Francisco 49ers quarterback, Colin Kaepernick has had a winning record since 2006, with hands Winstons’ size or smaller.  Mariota gained 12-15lbs of muscle to prepare himself for the combine and it showed. He looks the part of the modern quarterback, big, strong, and fast. There are way too many questions marks regarding Winston for me. I believe 100% that Mariota has a much higher ceiling than Winston. This is my opinion based on all the information I have gathered over the past few years. Mariota got better in college every year, after “The Quarterback Whisperer” Chip Kelly, left Oregon to coach the Philadelphia Eagles. Winston has gotten worse. If you don’t want to take my opinion on the topic that is fine. But listen to what Chip Kelly had to say about Mariota, “I have never been around a quarterback in college or pro who can process information, and then use his athleticism to go out on the field and make it happen. He has the highest football IQ I have ever seen” Now, some people may think Chip Kelly is being biased because he recruited and coached Mariota. But, there is one thing you can’t deny. Kelly is an offensive genius. You want more proof of Chip Kelly’s brilliance? Bill Belichick spent weeks up at Oregon when Kelly was the head coach, learning offense and how to run an up-tempo style. Urban Meyer spent a week at Philadelphia Eagles training camp last year. He said, “I learned more in a week about offense and nutrition than I ever thought imaginable.” Belichick and the Patriots just won the Super Bowl. Meyer and Ohio State just won the National Championship. These two head coaches, went to Chip Kelly to learn.The NFL has changed over the past 5 years. Mobile quarterbacks succeed. In Today’s NFL you need a quarterback who can get outside the pocket and extend plays. If you look at this year’s Final Four in pro Football, 3 out of the 4 quarterbacks made plays with their legs and arms. Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers and Andrew Luck. The only quarterback who wasn’t mobile was Tom Brady. Almost every pass play that Brady made was under 20 yards in the post –season. This is something Mariota can do and will do in the NFL. I wrote last July,”I have never seen a quarterback with Mariota’s size, strength, speed, accuracy and football IQ. I still believe that today.I think both can have long term success in the NFL but I would take Mariota over Winston every day of the week and twice on Sunday.Marcus Mariota’s Career Stats (3 years as a starter)66.7 Completion percentage, 134 total touchdowns, 14 interceptions, 10,796 passing yards and 2,237 rushing yards.Jameis Winston’s Career Stats (2 years as a starter)66.1 Completion percentage, 72 total touchdowns, 28 interceptions, 7,964 passing yards and 284 yards rushing.Marcus Mariota’s Combine Numbers:40- Yard Dash: 4.52, Hand Size: 9 7/8, Vertical Jump: 36 inches and Broad Jump: 10.1.                    Jameis Winston’s Combine Numbers:40- Yard Dash 4.97, Hand Size 9 3/8, Vertical Jump: 28.5 Inches and Broad Jump 8.7.http://montesports11.tumblr.com/post/111886455951/i-would-take-marcus-mariota-over-jameis-winston

      The End

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2630

      Hey Runtroll, Winston has almost incurable footwork issues, unless it is truly a serious ankle sprain. Winston was the worst QB in the league last week, how do you explain that?

      He was not the worst QB in the league last week. Hell, he put up better numbers than Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford. You haters are something else. The dude has played one game and you know everything you need to know about him. I wonder how Peyton Manning's footwork was when he threw 3 ints (including a pick six) in his first start.

      +1.They've made the board unreadable the past week.I don't think I've ever seen such lack of support from a fanbase for their rookie QB after 1 game. A good percentage of this board HATES our own QB and has been trashing him non stop because he had a poor first career NFL start. Beyond pathetic. Do you think Colts fans had this type of reaction when Luck threw 3 INT's game one? I know the situations are different, but my god...

      The fanbase was told that #ProReady wouldn't have a steep learning curve coming into the league, that they could "throw the whole playbook at him" and things would be OK, since #ProReady is a football genius. That turned out to be a lie, it would seem.Beyond that, #ProReady is never going to get the benefit of the doubt from people. Ever. He's used up all 9 of his lives ducking a rape case (that you better believe a regular citizen would've been charged with) and then being an unapologetic misogynist and a thief.

      The only ones who told you that were the FSU fanboys. 99% of people knew he wouldn't come into the league and dominate right away. Not Winston's fault that you decided to believe and have unrealistic expectations for him.And like I said before, the 'pro-ready' Andrew Luck threw 3 INT's during his first NFL game. I don't think Colts message boards were anything like this after his first game. They're reasonable and understand that rookie QB's are going to struggle early on.I'm not going to get into the off the field crap, that's been beaten to death and the fact that you're bringing it up now when he's done everything right off the field as a Buc just shows your bias and hatred for him.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 141

      So, you are admitting that many of you never intended to give him a chance?  Makes more sense now. Glad to know that he was doomed before we even picked him.

      I don't think anyone outside of perhaps UFOJoe who never intended to give him a chance. I can't speak for all of those who have been critical of Winston's play thus far, but it's damn frustrating to see all of the concerns I had about his game before the draft still present. Doubly so after the way all of those concerns were dismissed by a good portion of the folks on this board - including PR folks themselves. Post after post, article after article gave excuses/reasons for why Winston's mechanics and interceptions were not a problem or were not his fault. Try to have a discussion about it and some here labeled folks racist because they questioned Winston's talent and thought Mariota should get some serious consideration for being the first pick based on his talent. Hell, some here didn't want either of them and wanted to either trade down or take one of the DE's first. I'd love for Winston to succeed, he's the QB on my team after all. But if you think he gets a free pass just because he's a rookie who had a bad game, that's just nuts. Especially when the guy who was the alternative looked that good and that poised in the first real game between the two when Winston looked that bad. Mind you, nothing that came out about Winston since he was drafted gave anyone any reason to temper their expectations that he wasn't picking up the speed of the game or whatever early on. Excuses were made about him having the whole playbook thrown at him, that the defense was forcing him to make mistakes so he could learn the game quicker, he was studying film when not on the field, etc... (I seem to recall hearing that Freeman was studying a lot of film the first couple of years too). And honestly, some of this is the worst of the Winstonites reaping what they sowed during the off season (hell, in some cases back to last season when the Bucs were fighting for the first pick). Go back and look at the Winston/Mariota posts leading up to the draft, you'll see what went on. So when Mariota has an historic first game as a rookie and Winston looks mostly lost, you get what we had in the past week.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 177

      So, you are admitting that many of you never intended to give him a chance?  Makes more sense now. Glad to know that he was doomed before we even picked him.

      From NFL.com

      Weaknesses Decision making not consistent with his football intelligence. Will throw into impossible windows rather than taking safe throw underneath. Elongated windup and release allows instinctive defenders to close on throws. Was too easily baited into dangerous throws. Struggled with intermediate passing game in 2014, completing 56.8 percent of his passes with FBS-leading 11 interceptions in that range. Still learning nuances of position and how to move and hold defenders with his eyes. Would sleepwalk through first half of many games. Inconsistent footwork and weight transfer caused balls to sail. Prone to emotional outbursts on field. Quality of decision-making drops off substantially when pocket becomes turbulent and he's forced to leave it. Lacks athleticism to extend plays for very long outside of the pocket. Off-the-field character and ability to lead on NFL level are his primary obstacles, according to NFL evaluators. 

      From CBSSports

      WEAKNESSES: Where he's causing scouts to question his pro-readiness is off the field where a series of questionable incidents have raised concerns his maturity and character, including a sexual assault charge, shoplifting and using vulgar language in the student union. Some teams may take Winston off their boards entirely. Some scouts also believe he needs to quicken and shorten his delivery in order to be consistently successful at the next level, as he tends to wind up when he throws, lacking the quick release NFL teams desire. He has NFL arm strength, so the elongated delivery was not a big issue at the college level. Winston still has a tendency to stare down his targets and will make poor decisions with the ball down the field when hemmed between the tackles and forced to get rid of the ball under pressure. At times, he'll backpedal and throw while off-balance, rather than stepping into his throws, negating his natural throwing power. He has proven especially vulnerable to underneath defenders dropping in front of his intended targets - a significant issue given the frequency of zone-blitzes in the NFL as compared to college.  

      From Dallas News:

      He throws picks at a high rate and they are often nobody’s fault but his own.  He will throw off his back foot into a crowd of defenders that make you think he is out to lunch at the most important position on the field for a guy who is always locked in. His ability to read coverages that are meant to trick him seems very elementary at this point and this combined with his abundance of (irrational) confidence is another red flag that is difficult to project. His accuracy is also frustrating for a guy who has had this much success.  Needless to say, on a player where people talk constantly about his off-field conduct, I have many concerns about what the game tape shows, despite the fact that he won almost every game he ever played in.

      Many of these traits were on full display against the Titans...

      MB:I don't question that he has areas for improvement.  But, if you don't think that is true for all rookie QBs, then you are completely mistaken.  As to your cited critiques, there is also a flip side to each of the purported "weaknesses."For instance, NFL.com had JW rated as the fifth best prospect overall, and his rating of 6.7 was higher than Mariota's rating of 6.27 (16th overall).  According to their draft analysis:Strengths Considered by scouting community to be advanced in ability to scan field and get through progressions. Has natural feel for throwing windows and anticipates openings that other college quarterbacks don't see. Has height to see over offensive line and thickness of build to withstand NFL hits. Big arm by NFL standards. Gets full extension and follow through into throws with ability to drive ball into the seam in front of safeties. Can make all of the field-side throws teams need. Most teammates very trusting and protective of him, according to regional scouts. Aware in pocket, but not overly jittery. Good feel for edge pressure and steps up into pocket while continuing his scan. When pressure mounts, so does his focus. Shows faith in his wide receivers and willing to go right back to them after a drop. Strong lower body and able to shake free of some would-be sacks and get rid of the ball. Fierce competitor and unafraid of mistakes. Shows above-average football character. Will make throws and take chances others won't, which can be a special trait if properly harnessed. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/jameis-winston?id=2552485CBS Sports had Winston as the #2 prospect behind Leonard Williams, and ahead of Mariota (#3 overall).  Here is what they had to say:STRENGTHS: Possesses all the natural physical tools you look for in today's NFL. He's big, athletic, has a strong arm and moves well inside the pocket. As for the intangibles, the list includes poise, anticipation, toughness, vision, leadership and a competitive fire. He's the total package, physically. When on his game, Winston delivers strikes before his receivers are out of their breaks or even looking for the ball. He handles pressure well, evading, resetting and speeding up his process when needed, listening to his internal clock. Generally makes excellent decisions with the ball, showing the ability to pepper well-thrown short and intermediate routes as well as driving strikes down the alleys. Shows nice touch on traditional deep balls as well as inside the red zone. While Winston struggled during the first half of several games in 2014, he regularly impressed with his ability to make adjustments and rally the Seminoles from behind, making clutch throws with the game on the line.http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1998197/jameis-winstonAnd, according to Todd McShay: "Andrew Luck would be the only one [ahead of him]," McShay said. "If you're just grading off of what you see on tape, he'll have the second-highest quarterback grade that I'll have given in the last 10 years. If you really look at it, his anticipation, the accuracy, the way he can extend plays. I know he's not fast. We saw that. He didn't jump well. He didn't run well. Who cares? He extends plays with his strength, his anticipation, his feel inside the pocket. That's what's special about him."http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/10999/todd-mcshay-puts-winston-up-near-andrew-luckJameis may end up being an absolute bust in this league.  But, you can't make me believe that he doesn't have a TON of upside based on his college performance and both the physical and intangible traits he displayed prior to the draft.  All I am saying is that it is WAY too early to turn on him, and I am shocked at how many of our fans are ready to call him a failed pick after a single game.  Give the guy a chance to be what he has been at every level of competition, and what most reputable commentators said he would be prior to the draft.   

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      So, you are admitting that many of you never intended to give him a chance?  Makes more sense now. Glad to know that he was doomed before we even picked him.

      I don't think anyone outside of perhaps UFOJoe who never intended to give him a chance. I can't speak for all of those who have been critical of Winston's play thus far, but it's damn frustrating to see all of the concerns I had about his game before the draft still present. Doubly so after the way all of those concerns were dismissed by a good portion of the folks on this board - including PR folks themselves. Post after post, article after article gave excuses/reasons for why Winston's mechanics and interceptions were not a problem or were not his fault. Try to have a discussion about it and some here labeled folks racist because they questioned Winston's talent and thought Mariota should get some serious consideration for being the first pick based on his talent. Hell, some here didn't want either of them and wanted to either trade down or take one of the DE's first. I'd love for Winston to succeed, he's the QB on my team after all. But if you think he gets a free pass just because he's a rookie who had a bad game, that's just nuts. Especially when the guy who was the alternative looked that good and that poised in the first real game between the two when Winston looked that bad. Mind you, nothing that came out about Winston since he was drafted gave anyone any reason to temper their expectations that he wasn't picking up the speed of the game or whatever early on. Excuses were made about him having the whole playbook thrown at him, that the defense was forcing him to make mistakes so he could learn the game quicker, he was studying film when not on the field, etc... (I seem to recall hearing that Freeman was studying a lot of film the first couple of years too). And honestly, some of this is the worst of the Winstonites reaping what they sowed during the off season (hell, in some cases back to last season when the Bucs were fighting for the first pick). Go back and look at the Winston/Mariota posts leading up to the draft, you'll see what went on. So when Mariota has an historic first game as a rookie and Winston looks mostly lost, you get what we had in the past week.

      Preach!!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      Winston is going to take some time to adjust to the speed of the game.  No doubt about it.Level expectations - young man has talent, but it is going to take a season or two even for him to settle in.If you're thinking anything short of that, I suspect it is going to be a rough and painfully emotional season for you where most will end up playing the blame game on someone or another...Giving him a chance equals a full season under live fire....  not even just him (JW), we've got plenty of rookies who need a season.I think a lot of the offseason nonsense around about QB's have driven the general expectations well above what anyone would consider normal.But, that makes sense to me./moment of clarity

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1686

      At least JOT relented and admitted the truth about Winston being the worst QB in the league last week. He has some serious improving to do, but last week Mariota looked a lot more pro ready.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 235

      I Would Take Marcus Mariota over Jameis Winston Every Day of the Week and Twice on Sunday.I am not a huge fan of the NFL Combine, but is has become increasingly popular year after year. ESPN reported that the NFL, gave out 1,071 press credentials…that is more than most NFL playoff games. I think the Combine can be a useful tool in interviewing players and getting a feel for their personality and work ethic, but it is not a “tell-all”. Teddy Bridgewater had a horrible pro day last year, yet the Minnesota Vikings quarterback had a successful rookie year. (Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Year (2014)NFC North Rookie of the Year (2014), 2014 PFWA All-Rookie Team). New England Patriots quarterback, Tom Brady, had a horrible combine, but he is one of the greatest quarterback’s in the history of the NFL. (I attached his combine link below…)The biggest question coming into the 2015 draft is…who should be the #1 pick, Marcus Mariota or Jameis Winston? There has been heated debates on television, talk radio and social media regarding these two great college quarterbacks. There is no direct science when predicting these things, Brady is living proof of that. He was drafted in the 6th round and was the #199 pick in the 2000 draft. All writers, and broadcasters can do is make an educated guess. After watching a ton of games and film on both players, here is why I would take Mariota over Winston every day of the week and twice on Sunday.The biggest “Knock” or question mark about Mariota is that he is a “system quarterback”. Once again, the lazy media hasn’t done their homework. I expect this from lazy fans but not broadcasters who are making millions of dollars. There is no such thing as a system quarterback!! Did anyone watch the Patriots against the Ravens in the playoffs or against Seattle in the Super Bowl? In the 2nd half against Baltimore, New England didn’t call 1 running play for their running backs. Against Seattle, Tom Brady threw the ball 50 times! All from the shotgun, all under 20 yards. There is no such thing as a “system quarterback” It takes great players, like Brady or Mariota, to make THAT system work. New York Knicks President, Phil Jacksons has a system, the triangle offense. The Knicks have a record of 10-45, does that mean Jackson’s system no longer works? No, what it means is, PLAYERS make the system, (Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant) the system doesn’t make the player.Another “knock” or question mark about Mariota is that he can’t make throws from the pocket. Again, do your homework media! Mariota was 2nd in the country in completion percentage (over 70%) when throwing from the pocket.  Mariota can make all the throws, if anyone has watched film or the Combine, he has proven that. Against the best defensive teams that he faced all year long, Michigan State, UCLA, Arizona (PAC-12 Championship Game) and Florida State. Mariota was 85 for 129, 65.8 completion %, averaged 295 yards passing, 53 yards rushing, 3.75 total touchdowns and only 1 interception in those four games. Mariota played his best games when Oregon played better defensive teams. I watched him read his progressions and hit the 2nd or 3rd option, numerous times.What most fans and media don’t realize is that Winston took a huge step backwards from his first year as a starter at Florida State. Winston threw 25 touchdown passes and had 18 interceptions. When he won the Heisman Trophy, Winston had 40 touchdown passes and only 10 interceptions.  Winston had 15 interceptions where the ball was thrown for over 20 yards. That was the worst out of any of any quarterback who plays in a Power 5 Conference. It was the second worst, in the entire country. Co-host Mike Greenberg of ESPN’s Mike and Mike in the Morning said, “I know Winston threw a lot of interceptions down the field, but that doesn’t concern me because it means he can throw the ball deep.” I respect Mike Greenberg, his show and career. But, this has to be one of the dumbest comments ever made. Mike and Mike have become “teflon” and no one ever criticizes them.Saying that Winston’s interceptions don’t matter because it proves he can throw the ball downfield couldn’t be further from the truth. It proves that teams have adjusted to his tendencies. He obviously locks on to receivers downfield or doesn’t look off the safety.  I haven’t played an organized football game in years, yet I can put on pads, a helmet and throw the ball twenty yards. To Quote Vince Vaughn from the 2005 movie Wedding Crashers, “I was first-team All-State. I can put the ball wherever I want to. I’ll make it rain out here.”Just because someone can throw the ball 20 yards, “Greeny”, that doesn’t make them a pro quarterback. Jeff George had one of the best arms I have ever seen, and his career was very disappointing.  In order to be a successful NFL quarterback you can’t throw 2 to 3 interceptions in the first half consistently. NFL teams will make you pay for that and you won’t be able to come back from a 10-21 point deficit.One of the most common themes during the combines, “Winston is more NFL ready than Mariota.” I don’t really know what that means? If you are going to “kill” Mariota because Oregon quarterbacks put up great numbers, than you have to “kill ” Florida State coach Jimbo Fisher as well. Here is a list of quarterbacks he has coached. None of them have had long-term success in the NFL:•Josh Booty, sixth round, 2001•Rohan Davey, fourth round, 2002•Craig Nall, fifth round, 2002•Matt Mauck, seventh round, 2004•JaMarcus Russell, first overall, 2007•Matt Flynn, seventh round, 2008•Christian Ponder, first round, 2011•EJ Manuel, first round, 2013The End

      you know Christian Ponder named his daughter Bowden Saint-Claire Ponder, after Bobby Bowden.  I swear, you FSU fanboys.In all seriousness, I think that we should put a pin in this thread and come back to it at the end of the season.  No, Winston was not my first choice and neither was Mariota.  Both of these guys are going to there ups and downs, thats life/football.In the meantime, lets hope Winston can turn it around because now, he's the franchise.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      Winston excuses all of last year…welcome to the 2015 version of excuse making.He hasn't come close to his 2013 year.  Regression to the mean.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2188

      There are no more Winstonites or Mariota slurpers. Get over it. The Bucs picked Winston and he's the QB of your team. Might want to give him a chance, you know more than 1 game.With fans like this who needs enemies.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      There are no more Winstonites or Mariota slurpers. Get over it. The Bucs picked Winston and he's the QB of your team. Might want to give him a chance, you know more than 1 game.With fans like this who needs enemies.

      +1

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1176

      There are no more Winstonites or Mariota slurpers. Get over it. The Bucs picked Winston and he's the QB of your team. Might want to give him a chance, you know more than 1 game.With fans like this who needs enemies.

      It's more than just the Winston selection. It's also the Vinny, Dilfer, and Freeman picks. Fans are just tired of the Bucs getting it wrong. When Winston comes out looking like he did last Sunday it brings back all those deep cuts that never seem to heal.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      There are no more Winstonites or Mariota slurpers. Get over it. The Bucs picked Winston and he's the QB of your team. Might want to give him a chance, you know more than 1 game.With fans like this who needs enemies.

      It's more than just the Winston selection. It's also the Vinny, Dilfer, and Freeman picks. Fans are just tired of the Bucs getting it wrong. When Winston comes out looking like he did last Sunday it brings back all those deep cuts that never seem to heal.

      True Rude, but the head scratching moment is, some have ALREADY determined Jameis is part of that group. Way to early to say that.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1176

      There are no more Winstonites or Mariota slurpers. Get over it. The Bucs picked Winston and he's the QB of your team. Might want to give him a chance, you know more than 1 game.With fans like this who needs enemies.

      It's more than just the Winston selection. It's also the Vinny, Dilfer, and Freeman picks. Fans are just tired of the Bucs getting it wrong. When Winston comes out looking like he did last Sunday it brings back all those deep cuts that never seem to heal.

      True Rude, but the head scratching moment is, some have ALREADY determined Jameis is part of that group. Way to early to say that.

      I have not added him to that list because it is way, way too soon. All I'm saying is Bucs fans have waited a long time for the cuts to heal and his game on Sunday made the cuts bleed a little more.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 413

      There are no more Winstonites or Mariota slurpers. Get over it. The Bucs picked Winston and he's the QB of your team. Might want to give him a chance, you know more than 1 game.With fans like this who needs enemies.

      +1 here too.+1

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    • donsgift

      Participant
      Post count: 353

      The only think I am absolutely sure of after one game is that we have terrible, whiney fans.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Bucs fans rooting against their potential franchise QB. Makes sense. This board is a mix of Buc fans and quasi-Bucs fans who are actually bigger fans of their opinions. No clearer example then all the crowing by Mariota supporters. Lol

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      quasi-Bucs fans who are actually bigger fans of their opinions. No clearer example then all the crowing by Mariota supporters. Lol

      Please...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      The only think I am absolutely sure of after one game is that we have terrible, whiney fans.

      And ones who find the crap they march out every year acceptable for some reason.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      The only think I am absolutely sure of after one game is that we have terrible, whiney fans.

      And ones who find the crap they march out every year acceptable for some reason.

      Because if you don't whine you find it acceptable?Lol, nice. "Whine or you are a lesser fan!"

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      quasi-Bucs fans who are actually bigger fans of their opinions. No clearer example then all the crowing by Mariota supporters. Lol

      Please...

      You're welcome?For the record, I wouldn't lump you in that group even you seem to?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      The only think I am absolutely sure of after one game is that we have terrible, whiney fans.

      And ones who find the crap they march out every year acceptable for some reason.

      Because if you don't whine you find it acceptable?Lol, nice. "Whine or you are a lesser fan!"

      Then perhaps the people who do are pretty well justified.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      quasi-Bucs fans who are actually bigger fans of their opinions. No clearer example then all the crowing by Mariota supporters. Lol

      Please...

      You're welcome?For the record, I wouldn't lump you in that group even you seem to?

      The Winston-Slurpers were equally bad. Fact.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Winston excuses all of last year...welcome to the 2015 version of excuse making.He hasn't come close to his 2013 year.  Regression to the mean.

      Whew! Glad the regression momentarily stopped this week to stave off cutting Winston until at least next week!  ;)

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      quasi-Bucs fans who are actually bigger fans of their opinions. No clearer example then all the crowing by Mariota supporters. Lol

      Please...

      You're welcome?For the record, I wouldn't lump you in that group even you seem to?

      The Winston-Slurpers were equally bad. Fact.

      +1000000000000000000000

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Cosell has been wrong about everything so far the last few years he has decided to crawl out of whatever dark hole.Please go back to the Blue Lagoon and leave the rest of civilization alone. Thanks

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      Winston excuses all of last year...welcome to the 2015 version of excuse making.He hasn't come close to his 2013 year.  Regression to the mean.

      Whew! Glad the regression momentarily stopped this week to stave off cutting Winston until at least next week!  ;)

      How did I know your troll ass would show up as soon as the game was over? You predictability is laughable. Beat it troll

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Winston excuses all of last year...welcome to the 2015 version of excuse making.He hasn't come close to his 2013 year.  Regression to the mean.

      Whew! Glad the regression momentarily stopped this week to stave off cutting Winston until at least next week!  ;)

      How did I know your troll ass would show up as soon as the game was over? You predictability is laughable. Beat it troll

      Compared to your contribution to the thread?To  your request?  5505952+_0a3b441c09cc3bcd59fc5eee414b263b.gifDoes anyone ever take you seriously?

      Please wait…

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