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    • ISLAND BUCS

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      The Bucs got rid of 5 OL: Carimi, Larsen, Joseph, Penn and Zuttah.  The Bucs got 2 OL in free agency: Collins and Deterich-SmithThere are at least 2 holes in the OL.  Nicks seems very prone to re-injury and unless Cousins blossoms in a new setting, it is hard to think he could be even a back-upThere was hope that the Bucs could draft a slot WR, but now with the exit of Mike Williams there are 2 holes at wide receiver.Kind of makes you wish we had kept Underwood or Zuttah or both.But anyway, needing at least one WR to pair with V. Jackson and needing at least one OL to start at Guard, it just doesn't  seem the Bucs can take a QB early. The Bucs  have 2 QB's already and may have a decent season with them, but if the Bucs play with 3 QB's and a hole either at WR or OL, it is                                            likely to be an unpleasant season.Seems that the Williams exit has made it very difficult for the Bucs to take a QB,  at least,  in the 1st round

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 344

      Agree.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1128

      It’s the unfortunate truth. ideally they would take a QB if he’s BPA. Receiver and guard could technically be addressed in rounds 2 or 3. I just keep thinking back to the point that Lovie plans on winning. If he drafts Evans and they go .500, they likely won’t have a shot at a QB next season. Although we have other obvious holes, this may be our best shot at a QB.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4755

      This draft should have good receivers in every round and you can easily replace him in the 2nd round IMO. If you draft WR at no.7 you arent replacing him you had best be upgrading big time. MW19 is completely replaceable. He was a solid no.2 WR … not a great no.1.I think the bigger need is OG which potentially could create a problem. You would probably be stretching it to get a starting no.2 WR and a starting OG in rounds 2 and 3 but not impossible. OG is very scary with two players who suck and one great player who may never play again. But back to the thread, LL arent going to pass on a guy they think is a franchise QB. These guys arent noobs ... lol.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2603

      Nope! The Buc’s will draft a QB at #7 if they want. Heck they might be able to trade Glennon for a 2nd or 3rd round pick then get a WR there.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4057

      Why would this change anything? If there is a franchise level QB drafting a second WR doesn’t change that decision.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2275

      Doesn’t change a thing if they want a QB they will take him regardless. Also it will be fairly easy to replace Mike Williams production, he wasn’t a world beater by any means.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      I think the only QB we like enough to take there is Manziel . Even though I like Bridgewater , the overall vibe I get from the team says we are not high on the him. If Manziel isn't there the pick will be Evans. If Evans isn't there , don't be surprised if it's Anthony Barr.They will consider all trade back offers also. In which case look for them to target Odell Beckham or Ebron.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      No because Mike Williams can be replaced by a guy in the 2nd or 3rd.I still want them draft Evans tho.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 738

      Nope.  Drafting a WR at #7 is a reach anyways unless he’s Calvin Johnson. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5188

      Nope.  Drafting a WR at #7 is a reach anyways unless he's Calvin Johnson.

      Debateable.But I tend to agree.  I wouldn't mind Watkins nor Evans, however.  I think both will make the offense more palatable.But the WR class is deep, as everyone has chanted around here.  I just don't really want Khalil nor Barr, as they would play as Sambackers, and that is a "reach" at #7, IMO (because the position, not the player).And before anyone flies off the handle about Donald, that is a different story.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 738

      Nope.  Drafting a WR at #7 is a reach anyways unless he's Calvin Johnson.

      Debateable.But I tend to agree.  I wouldn't mind Watkins nor Evans, however.  I think both will make the offense more palatable.But the WR class is deep, as everyone has chanted around here.  I just don't really want Khalil nor Barr, as they would play as Sambackers, and that is a "reach" at #7, IMO (because the position, not the player).And before anyone flies off the handle about Donald, that is a different story.

      Top 10 WR since 2009:Tavon Austin - 2013Justin Blackmon - 2012Julio Jones - 2011AJ Green - 2011Darius Heyward Bey - 2009Michael Crabtree - 2009Best on the list are Jones and Green.  Is Watkins as good as those guys?  Who knows?  The fact he went to Clemson is what bothers me the most actually.  Besides CJ Spiller, that school hasn't put out a big name offensive player in a long long time.Julio Jones is great.  But without Matt Ryan, would he really be that good?  Would AJ Green be as good as he is without the redhead QB?  I guess its the chicken or the egg argument.  We need a QB.  The NFL is littered with solid WRs drafted in later rounds.  Its like RB... they're becoming a dime a dozen.  And 4 of these 6 top 10 drafted WRs aren't anything special to prove it.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 6677

      Ridiculous question.  No offense.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2847

          I want us to trade down in round 1. This is a draft where quality players are there for over 2 rounds; the more we get now, the quicker we become relevant again. The QBs in this draft aren’t deserving of an early pick, IMO.   I would not ordinarily be interested in a round 1 WR, but Evans appears to be a rarity; a WR with major talent, who seems to have his head on his shoulders. With VJax well into his prime, Evans would likely become our #1 receiver down the road.   The perfect storm for us would be to trade dow and add a 2nd rounder or more, and still be high enough to get Evans in the first. Now we got the ammo to grab Murray or JimmyG in round 2, and still land a quality G, another WR, etc...

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Julio Jones is great.  But without Matt Ryan, would he really be that good?   

      I think it was proven this season that the opposite is true. Ryan needs Julio.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 6506

      I think we are very likely to go WR/OG or OG/WR in rounds two and three…..but I think we still can and will take whomever we see as the BPA in the 1st round. I don’t think any offseason moves have affected what position we’ll draft in the 1st round. We could still take any position at seven, and certainly won’t pass on a QB if the right one is there.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 738

      Julio Jones is great.  But without Matt Ryan, would he really be that good?   

      I think it was proven this season that the opposite is true. Ryan needs Julio.

      Then its settled!  Draft WRs in the Top 10 until your QB is elite.Matt Millen is on line one.  He's laughing.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Julio Jones is great.  But without Matt Ryan, would he really be that good?   

      I think it was proven this season that the opposite is true. Ryan needs Julio.

      Then its settled!  Draft WRs in the Top 10 until your QB is elite.Matt Millen is on line one.  He's laughing.

      Who said to do that ??But if an elite WR prospect is available an only questionable QB's , and my starting WR is Louis Murphy  , I'm going with the WR.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 6677

      He did ok before he had him.  And really, last year he was 4th in the league in passing yards at 4500 and he completed 67% of his passes. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 642

      No.  It still comes down to building a team from the inside out.  A WR only gets so many touches per game. If we are in love with a QB, we are going to take him.  There will be a blue chip player at  #7.  If he's not our guy, we'll trade out.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4623

      If you don’t have a franchise QB, you don’t pass on a player you think is a franchise QB under any circumstances.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      If you don't have a franchise QB, you don't pass on a player you think is a franchise QB under any circumstances.

      ...and what if there is only a talented yet flawed QB , who you are not quite sure about ?? ( the more likely feeling with this crop of QB's )

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4623

      If you don't have a franchise QB, you don't pass on a player you think is a franchise QB under any circumstances.

      ...and what if there is only a talented yet flawed QB , who you are not quite sure about ?? ( the more likely feeling with this crop of QB's )

      That's why coaches and GMs make millions of dollars. To be right.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4057

      If you don't have a franchise QB, you don't pass on a player you think is a franchise QB under any circumstances.

      ...and what if there is only a talented yet flawed QB , who you are not quite sure about ?? ( the more likely feeling with this crop of QB's )

      Drafting a WR doesn't add one win to your win total. QBs do. You have doubts on any player in the draft, if you don't you are a fool, all things being equal you take the QB as your preferential pick.  I'm not as low on the QBs nor as high on the top WRs as some folks though.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 6506

      You will never be sure about any prospect. They all have flaws. Everyone one of them. If there is a QB there that you graded out as a top player in this draft, then you take him at #7. It really doesn’t matter at all what’s going on at other positions. You don’t pass on a legit QB in the top 10 when you don’t have your franchise guy.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4623

      You will never be sure about any prospect. They all have flaws. Everyone one of them. If there is a QB there that you graded out as a top player in this draft, then you take him at #7. It really doesn't matter at all what's going on at other positions. You don't pass on a legit QB in the top 10 when you don't have your franchise guy.

      Exactly. Even if you have a position player graded out higher than a QB, if the QB still has potential to be good, you pick him. Look what happened in 2008. Most people thought Jake Long was one of the best tackle prospects in years and Matt Ryan was a pretty good but not great QB. The Dolphins took their highest rated player and still sucked. The Falcons took the QB and have been better than they've ever been as a franchise.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4057

      You will never be sure about any prospect. They all have flaws. Everyone one of them. If there is a QB there that you graded out as a top player in this draft, then you take him at #7. It really doesn't matter at all what's going on at other positions. You don't pass on a legit QB in the top 10 when you don't have your franchise guy.

      Really if we have say 8 tier 1 players graded out and they are, for example,Bortles, Clowney, Robinson, Matthews, Watkins, Mack, Bridegwater, EvansThen it is a no brainier if Evans and Bridgewater are left that we take Teddy. Where you don't take Teddy is if he is graded out as a tier 2 guy and you still have tier 1 players left on the board. Everything is about how you group the players. You don't reach for need across tiers but you clearly want to prioritize by need within a tier.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      You will never be sure about any prospect. They all have flaws. Everyone one of them. If there is a QB there that you graded out as a top player in this draft, then you take him at #7. It really doesn't matter at all what's going on at other positions. You don't pass on a legit QB in the top 10 when you don't have your franchise guy.

      Really if we have say 8 tier 1 players graded out and they are, for example,Bortles, Clowney, Robinson, Matthews, Watkins, Mack, Bridegwater, EvansThen it is a no brainier if Evans and Bridgewater are left that we take Teddy. Where you don't take Teddy is if he is graded out as a tier 2 guy and you still have tier 1 players left on the board. Everything is about how you group the players. You don't reach for need across tiers but you clearly want to prioritize by need within a tier.

      This I agree with. My argument is that I don't think any of these QB's are going to be in the same tier as Evans in the Bucs eyes except for Manziel.Some here are arguing that you take the QB anyways. That's dumb . That's how you end up with a Blaine Gabbert.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4623

      The thing is with QBs, there really aren’t different tiers. You can either play or you can’t. It’s not like with other positions where you can say, “Oh, we’ll play him on 1st and 2nd down or we’ll play him on 3rd downs as a specialist.” With a QB it’s all or nothing. If a QB can play, you pick him. If he can’t, you don’t.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4623

      People genuinely thought Blaine Gabbert was going to be good. Mike Mayock thought he was better than Cam Newton.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 6677

      If you don't have a franchise QB, you don't pass on a player you think is a franchise QB under any circumstances.

      ...and what if there is only a talented yet flawed QB , who you are not quite sure about ?? ( the more likely feeling with this crop of QB's )

      That's why coaches and GMs make millions of dollars. To be right.

      but that’s really hard so they shouldn’t even try!

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      People genuinely thought Blaine Gabbert was going to be good. Mike Mayock thought he was better than Cam Newton.

      Reviews were mixed on Gabbert ...like a lot of these guys.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      If you don't have a franchise QB, you don't pass on a player you think is a franchise QB under any circumstances.

      ...and what if there is only a talented yet flawed QB , who you are not quite sure about ?? ( the more likely feeling with this crop of QB's )

      That's why coaches and GMs make millions of dollars. To be right.

      but that's really hard so they shouldn't even try!

      Ask Dummynik and Radio how that worked out for them....the being a right on your franchise QB thing . LOL

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4623

      People genuinely thought Blaine Gabbert was going to be good. Mike Mayock thought he was better than Cam Newton.

      Reviews were mixed on Gabbert ...like a lot of these guys.

      Reviews are mixed on every QB who doesn't go #1 overall. I understand your point, though, and agree in the overall sense. Perhaps you should trade Gabbert for Christian Ponder. I don't recall anyone thinking he had a chance to be better than mediocre. At least some people really liked Gabbert.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      I think Dalbuc nailed it. QB trumps all others in the same tier….QB’s in a lower tier don’t trump players above them.QB's have tiers also. Some have more questions than others. Some are more polished than others. Don't buy the "they can either play or they can't" deal.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 6677

      Dummynik got fired not because he drafted a QB.  He got fired for being wrong about the one he choose.  Pete Carrol just got a fat contract extension because he was right in his QB evaluation of the one he took.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Dummynik got fired not because he drafted a QB.  He got fired for being wrong about the one he choose.  Pete Carrol just got a fat contract extension because he was right in his QB evaluation of the one he took.

      Thank you , Captain Obvious.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 6677

      Well,  Many here are so damn scared to draft a QB it’s ridiculous.  Yes, there is risk involved but that’s the game thats being played. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      All I am saying is don’t force the issue. If Evans grades higher than the QB’s , and you aren’t completely sold on the QB’s , then don’t take a QB anyways just because you’re desperate for the franchise guy.  McCown is a nice 2 year bridge should we need it. He is competent enough to win games if you surround him with talent.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2601

      You will never be sure about any prospect. They all have flaws. Everyone one of them. If there is a QB there that you graded out as a top player in this draft, then you take him at #7. It really doesn't matter at all what's going on at other positions. You don't pass on a legit QB in the top 10 when you don't have your franchise guy.

      Exactly. Even if you have a position player graded out higher than a QB, if the QB still has potential to be good, you pick him. Look what happened in 2008. Most people thought Jake Long was one of the best tackle prospects in years and Matt Ryan was a pretty good but not great QB. The Dolphins took their highest rated player and still sucked. The Falcons took the QB and have been better than they've ever been as a franchise.

      Dolphins got Tannehill and they still kinda suck ._.Though he did not grade out as a 1st round talent to me. Maybe I'm missing the point? It's early haha.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1128

      Well,  Many here are so damn scared to draft a QB it's ridiculous.  Yes, there is risk involved but that's the game thats being played.

      Seriously..  Doug Williams was the only guy we've ever had that I considered a franchise QB. Steve Young became one after he left Tampa.  We drafted Dilfer and Freeman to be the guy, but they never turned into one. I understand the risk in  JFF and Bridgewater, but I'm freaking tired of rolling out McCown's(both), King's, Griese's etc etc.. If your guy is there you take him, period.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      There was never a scenario where the Bucs were drafting a QB in the first three rounds this year anyway.  Cutting Williams just solidified it.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1128

      There was never a scenario where the Bucs were drafting a QB in the first three rounds this year anyway.  Cutting Williams just solidified it.

      Oh, ok. Well I guess that settles it.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      There was never a scenario where the Bucs were drafting a QB in the first three rounds this year anyway.  Cutting Williams just solidified it.

      Oh, ok. Well I guess that settles it.

      I have an idea, why dont you keep telling yourself that Bridge or Manziel or Bortles are going to be Buccaneers.  You are going to make yourself crazy Chucky.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4057

      The thing is with QBs, there really aren't different tiers. You can either play or you can't. It's not like with other positions where you can say, "Oh, we'll play him on 1st and 2nd down or we'll play him on 3rd downs as a specialist." With a QB it's all or nothing. If a QB can play, you pick him. If he can't, you don't.

      I think there is a level of can he play or not.  That is more does a guy have starter potential. A guy like Gradkowski I don't care about anything else, he doesn't have the tools to be an NFL starter. His upside is backup. All of the usual offenders discussed have starter potential but they can be grouped into tiers. The reward is likely the same (starter) but the risk is the separator. Logan Thomas has starter upside but the risk on him is crazy. Teddy has starter potential but the risk is a scads lower.I would expect if we have a tier 1 QB and he is on the board at 7 that he is the pick.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 136

      If you need both a QB and a WR, the obvious choice is to get a QB. If the Bucs don't take a QB at 7, it'll have nothing to do with Mike Williams.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2697

      Nope! The Buc's will draft a QB at #7 if they want. Heck they might be able to trade Glennon for a 2nd or 3rd round pick then get a WR there.

      What are you smoking?

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4623

      The thing is with QBs, there really aren't different tiers. You can either play or you can't. It's not like with other positions where you can say, "Oh, we'll play him on 1st and 2nd down or we'll play him on 3rd downs as a specialist." With a QB it's all or nothing. If a QB can play, you pick him. If he can't, you don't.

      I think there is a level of can he play or not.  That is more does a guy have starter potential. A guy like Gradkowski I don't care about anything else, he doesn't have the tools to be an NFL starter. His upside is backup. All of the usual offenders discussed have starter potential but they can be grouped into tiers. The reward is likely the same (starter) but the risk is the separator. Logan Thomas has starter upside but the risk on him is crazy. Teddy has starter potential but the risk is a scads lower.I would expect if we have a tier 1 QB and he is on the board at 7 that he is the pick.

      I understand that the greater draft community will rank all the QBs in some sort of order where not much will separate one from another and they'll be blended in with the position players. What I'm more speaking of, and I think you've posted about it before, is individual teams will draw much harder yes/no divisions based on who they like and don't like. Chances are the Bucs probably love one of the top QBs but wouldn't draft the other two whether it's at #7, #17, or #27 because they just don't like them and a bad QB is a bad QB no matter where he's picked.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2697

      You will never be sure about any prospect. They all have flaws. Everyone one of them. If there is a QB there that you graded out as a top player in this draft, then you take him at #7. It really doesn't matter at all what's going on at other positions. You don't pass on a legit QB in the top 10 when you don't have your franchise guy.

      Exactly. Even if you have a position player graded out higher than a QB, if the QB still has potential to be good, you pick him. Look what happened in 2008. Most people thought Jake Long was one of the best tackle prospects in years and Matt Ryan was a pretty good but not great QB. The Dolphins took their highest rated player and still sucked. The Falcons took the QB and have been better than they've ever been as a franchise.

      Dolphins got Tannehill and they still kinda suck ._.Though he did not grade out as a 1st round talent to me. Maybe I'm missing the point? It's early haha.

      Having a crappy OL and no RB didn't help Tannehill (58 sacks)

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      If you need both a QB and a WR, the obvious choice is to get a QB. If the Bucs don't take a QB at 7, it'll have nothing to do with Mike Williams.

      You are choosing between Carr and Garrrapapalopalo - which one do you want?  Then tell me, do you need a QB that bad?

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    • Anonymous

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      Tannehill is going into his sink or swim year.  we shall see if they got it right or not.  so far he hasn’t really put it all together but there is a lot to like about him talent wise.  having only played qb one or two years in college I think most expected him to be a bit of a project.

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    • Anonymous

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      If you need both a QB and a WR, the obvious choice is to get a QB. If the Bucs don't take a QB at 7, it'll have nothing to do with Mike Williams.

      You are choosing between Carr and Garrrapapalopalo - which one do you want?  Then tell me, do you need a QB that bad?

      Carr is by far the better prospect between those two IMO.  will he work out?  no idea but then again no one is paying me to make those decisions.  talent wise and intangible wise there is a lot to like though.

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    • Anonymous

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      If you need both a QB and a WR, the obvious choice is to get a QB. If the Bucs don't take a QB at 7, it'll have nothing to do with Mike Williams.

      You are choosing between Carr and Garrrapapalopalo - which one do you want?  Then tell me, do you need a QB that bad?

      Carr is by far the better prospect between those two IMO.  will he work out?  no idea but then again no one is paying me to make those decisions.  talent wise and intangible wise there is a lot to like though.

      Those that get paid to make those decisions aren't going to be as cavalier with choosing a QB as fans on this board.  A first time GM is probably a tad conservative his first go round,  Just a guess.

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    • Anonymous

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      I don’t want Carr or Glennon or any other QB that has proven they can’t handle pressure. Being able to read the field, stay calm, and make the correct decision in less than 3 seconds with pressure in your face is the most important ability of a quarterback by far and it is rare and it cannot be coached. I don’t care how many other good things a guy can do. I don’t care if he looks amazing in a clean pocket. If he can’t handle pressure then he is not going to be a good starting QB in the NFL. Getting fooled by guys that look good in a clean pocket but fold under pressure is how Blaine Gabbert happens. Who ever spends a top 100 pick on Derek Carr is a fool and I pray the Bucs are not that fool.

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    • Anonymous

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      I don't want Carr or Glennon or any other QB that has proven they can't handle pressure.

      asking because I don't know, is there something about Carr that leads you to conclude he "has proven" that he cant handle pressure?  I guess you sat that about Glennon based on 4th qtr production, but what is the case against Carr?

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    • Anonymous

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      I don't want Carr or Glennon or any other QB that has proven they can't handle pressure.

      asking because I don't know, is there something about Carr that leads you to conclude he "has proven" that he cant handle pressure?  I guess you sat that about Glennon based on 4th qtr production, but what is the case against Carr?

      Glennon's flaws are some of the most coachable in football.  He's has a strong arm, which can't be coached.  He's accurate, which established very early.  He works his ass off, which is all I want out of my QB after Jfree.  To think for a second that any of the QBs available to us have as much if not more upside with a solid coach is borderline lunacy.  You dont just draft a QB to draft a QB. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Glennon’s accuracy is pretty unexceptional.

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    • Anonymous

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      You can’t coach players to handle pressure.

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    • Anonymous

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      You can't coach players to handle pressure.

      So if a QB has the yips on day one, he never settles down??  Seems like Eli learned , no?

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    • Anonymous

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      No. If your QB is there, you take him. WRs and OGs can be had in the 2nd and 3rd.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4623

      You can't coach players to handle pressure.

      So if a QB has the yips on day one, he never settles down??  Seems like Eli learned , no?

      Eli played like crap as a rookie, but he didn't have a specific problem handling pressure.

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    • Anonymous

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      You can't coach players to handle pressure.

      So if a QB has the yips on day one, he never settles down??  Seems like Eli learned , no?

      Eli played like crap as a rookie, but he didn't have a specific problem handling pressure.

      Sure he did.  Also had it in college.  He's one that matured in the pocket as he has gotten more mature.  Rodgers is another one.

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    • Anonymous

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      Sure, that’s why both of them were 1st round picks with Eli going #1 overall and Glennon was a 3rd rounder. They’re all the same and couldn’t handle pressure.

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    • Anonymous

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      Sure, that's why both of them were 1st round picks with Eli going #1 overall and Glennon was a 3rd rounder. They're all the same and couldn't handle pressure.

      For what it's worth, Glennon had a far superior 1st 13 games than Eli did.  Don't get caught up in when someone was drafted.  If you think Glennon has reached his ceiling then you are entitled to your opinion.

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    • Anonymous

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      Then I guess Glennon will win six Super Bowls because his rookie season was three times as good as Eli’s. So why do you think Eli and Rodgers were 1st round picks and in the running for #1 overall and Glennon went in the 3rd? What did the scouts miss?

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    • Anonymous

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      Then I guess Glennon will win six Super Bowls because his rookie season was three times as good as Eli's. So why do you think Eli and Rodgers were 1st round picks and in the running for #1 overall and Glennon went in the 3rd? What did the scouts miss?

      Glennon is no longer being graded by the round he was drafted in.  I guess I must be missing something.  I personally think Glennon can actually improve and know that he is working hard to do so.  How is that so hard to understand.

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    • Anonymous

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      Or Eli and Rodgers were 1st round picks because scouts thought they would be able to handle pressure in the NFL and Glennon was a 3rd round pick because they thought he couldn’t. We know Glennon has all the size you need and plenty of arm strength, so there had to have been something scouts didn’t like about him.

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    • Anonymous

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      In Glennon’s defense, it is pretty tough to handle pressure and make quick decisions with a 10 pound fish hanging from your nutsac.

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    • Anonymous

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      In Glennon's defense, it is pretty tough to handle pressure and make quick decisions with a 10 pound fish hanging from your nutsac.

      BURN!

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    • Anonymous

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      I don't want Carr or Glennon or any other QB that has proven they can't handle pressure.

      asking because I don't know, is there something about Carr that leads you to conclude he "has proven" that he cant handle pressure?  I guess you sat that about Glennon based on 4th qtr production, but what is the case against Carr?

      Carr has played in a system that puts more receivers on the field than the defense has DBs. College teams simply don't have 5 good DBs, so when you run a spread offense with quick short passes....there is always someone open. Carr does very good at that and he has some bloated stats because of it. However, if you watch him, I mean really watch him...you will see a very clear pattern. If things don't go perfectly as planned and there isn't a guy open immediately, Carr sucks. As soon as things go slightly wrong and Carr needs to buy some time or improvise...he is useless. His accuracy falls off a cliff and his decision making is horrible. Watch several of his games on draftbreakdown.com and focus on him when the play isn't a quick pass. Ignore all the bubble screens and 5 yard slants that anyone can throw and focus on the NFL type throws where he has to go through his progressions, find his 2nd or 3rd option, and deliver the ball 10+ yards downfield with defenders closing in on him. That is what translates to the NFL and he sucks at it. The Rotoworld QB Metrics showed it in numbers pretty clearly. Carr's completion percentage dropped 30% when under pressure. Out of the 10 other QBs they charted, the only other QB to have that big of a drop in completion % under pressure was Tajh Boyd and Connor Shaw. The rest of the 10 QBs charted dropped about %18 under pressure. So while it's just numbers and charts, I think it clearly backed up what I and others saw in game video.

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    • Anonymous

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      In Glennon's defense, it is pretty tough to handle pressure and make quick decisions with a 10 pound fish hanging from your nutsac.

      Bwahahahha! I hate all the back and forth on this board.....but that was pretty funny!

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9891

      I don't want Carr or Glennon or any other QB that has proven they can't handle pressure.

      asking because I don't know, is there something about Carr that leads you to conclude he "has proven" that he cant handle pressure?  I guess you sat that about Glennon based on 4th qtr production, but what is the case against Carr?

      Carr has played in a system that puts more receivers on the field than the defense has DBs. College teams simply don't have 5 good DBs, so when you run a spread offense with quick short passes....there is always someone open. Carr does very good at that and he has some bloated stats because of it. However, if you watch him, I mean really watch him...you will see a very clear pattern. If things don't go perfectly as planned and there isn't a guy open immediately, Carr sucks. As soon as things go slightly wrong and Carr needs to buy some time or improvise...he is useless. His accuracy falls off a cliff and his decision making is horrible. Watch several of his games on draftbreakdown.com and focus on him when the play isn't a quick pass. Ignore all the bubble screens and 5 yard slants that anyone can throw and focus on the NFL type throws where he has to go through his progressions, find his 2nd or 3rd option, and deliver the ball 10+ yards downfield with defenders closing in on him. That is what translates to the NFL and he sucks at it. The Rotoworld QB Metrics showed it in numbers pretty clearly. Carr's completion percentage dropped 30% when under pressure. Out of the 10 other QBs they charted, the only other QB to have that big of a drop in completion % under pressure was Tajh Boyd and Connor Shaw. The rest of the 10 QBs charted dropped about %18 under pressure. So while it's just numbers and charts, I think it clearly backed up what I and others saw in game video.

      thanks

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 344

      I don't want Carr or Glennon or any other QB that has proven they can't handle pressure.

      asking because I don't know, is there something about Carr that leads you to conclude he "has proven" that he cant handle pressure?  I guess you sat that about Glennon based on 4th qtr production, but what is the case against Carr?

      Carr has played in a system that puts more receivers on the field than the defense has DBs. College teams simply don't have 5 good DBs, so when you run a spread offense with quick short passes....there is always someone open. Carr does very good at that and he has some bloated stats because of it. However, if you watch him, I mean really watch him...you will see a very clear pattern. If things don't go perfectly as planned and there isn't a guy open immediately, Carr sucks. As soon as things go slightly wrong and Carr needs to buy some time or improvise...he is useless. His accuracy falls off a cliff and his decision making is horrible. Watch several of his games on draftbreakdown.com and focus on him when the play isn't a quick pass. Ignore all the bubble screens and 5 yard slants that anyone can throw and focus on the NFL type throws where he has to go through his progressions, find his 2nd or 3rd option, and deliver the ball 10+ yards downfield with defenders closing in on him. That is what translates to the NFL and he sucks at it. The Rotoworld QB Metrics showed it in numbers pretty clearly. Carr's completion percentage dropped 30% when under pressure. Out of the 10 other QBs they charted, the only other QB to have that big of a drop in completion % under pressure was Tajh Boyd and Connor Shaw. The rest of the 10 QBs charted dropped about %18 under pressure. So while it's just numbers and charts, I think it clearly backed up what I and others saw in game video.

      JDub, not sure where you find the time, but I do enjoy reading about all of your film watching.  Who do you think handles pressure the best, based on what you have watched.  Is that a strongsuit for Teddy, based on game film, despite what reports are saying about pro-day/workouts, etc.?  Also, what about Garoppolo.  Something tells me he could end up being a Buc at the end of the day.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4623

      I don't want Carr or Glennon or any other QB that has proven they can't handle pressure.

      asking because I don't know, is there something about Carr that leads you to conclude he "has proven" that he cant handle pressure?  I guess you sat that about Glennon based on 4th qtr production, but what is the case against Carr?

      Carr has played in a system that puts more receivers on the field than the defense has DBs. College teams simply don't have 5 good DBs, so when you run a spread offense with quick short passes....there is always someone open. Carr does very good at that and he has some bloated stats because of it. However, if you watch him, I mean really watch him...you will see a very clear pattern. If things don't go perfectly as planned and there isn't a guy open immediately, Carr sucks. As soon as things go slightly wrong and Carr needs to buy some time or improvise...he is useless. His accuracy falls off a cliff and his decision making is horrible. Watch several of his games on draftbreakdown.com and focus on him when the play isn't a quick pass. Ignore all the bubble screens and 5 yard slants that anyone can throw and focus on the NFL type throws where he has to go through his progressions, find his 2nd or 3rd option, and deliver the ball 10+ yards downfield with defenders closing in on him. That is what translates to the NFL and he sucks at it. The Rotoworld QB Metrics showed it in numbers pretty clearly. Carr's completion percentage dropped 30% when under pressure. Out of the 10 other QBs they charted, the only other QB to have that big of a drop in completion % under pressure was Tajh Boyd and Connor Shaw. The rest of the 10 QBs charted dropped about %18 under pressure. So while it's just numbers and charts, I think it clearly backed up what I and others saw in game video.

      You also have to hate his YPA. There's no reason a QB who completes 68% of his passes should be tied for #40 in YPA. I know he throws a ton of short passes, but so does Peyton Manning, but Manning can put his receivers in position to get YAC.

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    • Anonymous

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      I think Bridgewater does a good job at seeing the field, staying calm, and making the right decision. I haven’t seen him get flustered very often. There are things I don’t like about him, but how he handles pressure isn’t one of them. It’s a strength of his imo. With Garoppolo I can't say for sure. I like what I've seen of him but I have seen only the 6 games on DraftBreakdown.com, which is a pretty small sample size. From those six games I wouldn't say he chokes under pressure, but the thing I keep hearing about him is that he can't handle pressure. I see this same critique a lot on twitter and often from people with opinions I respect. I wish I could watch more of his college games to form my own fully informed opinion, but I am limited to the 6 games and some youtube highlights. So while I like what I see from Garoppolo, I would be leary of taking him before the 3rd round.

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    • Anonymous

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      FRG, another thing the QB Metrics showed was that a whopping 33% of Carr’s passes were screens. That is far more than average and far more than any other QB in this draft. It also showed that his attempts at 6-10, 11-20, and 20+ were all below the average and below the other QBs in this draft. His accuracy on his 20+ yard attempts was awful. 2nd worse out of the 10 QBs charted. He is a perfect example of a system college QB that shows very little talent that will transition to the NFL. His strengths and weakness are almost identical to Glennon’s. I am curious to see on draft day whether all this late hype of Carr is pure smokescreen or if some teams are actually this stupid.

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    • Anonymous

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      Buc on the Move, here is a recent artcile about Garoppolo from Russ Lande that you might like.http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/72179090/garoppolo-may-not-be-first-quarterback-chosen-but-still-one-of-the-best

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    • Anonymous

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      Thanks JDub, that was a good read.  I feel better about him or Bridgewater than the others, but that is just based on my reading.  I honestly don’t keep up much with College Football.  I feel like these are the two who will make the jump the best, and we would probably be lucky to get him in the top of the second, but I’m not sold on the JFF hype.  Good to read that breakdown on Grop.

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    • Anonymous

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      Perhaps the original question wasn’t phrased correctly.I don't think L&L were considering parting with Mike during the beginning of Free Angency when they were making their moves. The exit of Williams leaves the Bucs with 4 holes---2 on the OL and 2 WR's.I am assuming the Bucs have only 3 draft positions, 1st, 2nd and 3rd.  It is a long shot to think 5th and 7th will have a material impact,If the Bucs draft a QB early (even though it is the most important position on the team), there will be no backup on the OL and no 3rd wide receiverIt is really a difficult position for the Bucs to be in.It is not between Williams an a QB, it is between a QB and 4 holes in the lineup---2 at WR and 2 at OL.  Williams just happened to create the latest hole

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    • Anonymous

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      It’s only that way if you’re looking at this season as the last season ever. They don’t need to go from 4-12 to Super Bowl in the first season. The Bucs must feel good about Nicks and picking up a G late or from one of the many veterans that will come available. I also don’t think Williams was a surprise loss. They may have hoped he turned it around but their public comments from the outset were that he had to change.

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    • Anonymous

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      For me Feel Real Good made the most compelling argument for taking a QB early and doing the best you can with the holes to wit:"Look what happened in 2008. Most people thought Jake Long was one of the best tackle prospects in years and Matt Ryan was a pretty good but not great QB. The Dolphins took their highest rated player and still sucked. The Falcons took the QB and have been better than they've ever been as a franchise."

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    • Anonymous

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      The discussion of the Bucs drafting a QB comes down to two things that are looking less and less likely.  First, the consensus to do so with two starting QBs on their roster, one of which, they lobbied for in the off-season and got (McCown).  2nd, that the one QB they desire is available to draft on draft day if they are given the ok to draft one.  It’s looking a lot more like Manziel, Bridgewater and Bortles will be gone by the time the Bucs draft.  Selecting any other QB at that point with your #7 puts you in the, I’m not sure I like my job that much so let’s risk it with ____________ (insert leftover here).  I think the needs of the draft by those that draft prior to us coupled with our need for a QB not being so dire have more impact on our #7 selection than anything else.

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    • Anonymous

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      Never pass on the guy you think is the Franchise QB.  If their guy is there…  nothing supercedes a QB.Especially with a draft that is this deep with WR's and OL

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    • Anonymous

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      Even if 10lbbass disagrees?  Really blind melon?  ::)

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    • Anonymous

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      Bass is all about Vegas.  Different motivation.  But, yeah – even IF.

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    • Anonymous

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      Suppose:1st Bridgewater2nd Jackson G  Miss St3rd Landry  WR  LSU

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    • Anonymous

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      Suppose:1st Bridgewater2nd Yankey G Stanford3rd Landry  WR  LSU

      We could do a lot worse in the second or third rounds.

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    • Anonymous

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      This scouting report from Landy of NFP changed my selection from Yankey to Jackson:Gabe Jackson – Guard – Mississippi StateSize – 6033v – 339v – 5.20estStrong Points – Huge man, very strong and explosive, run block, pass block, uses hands, anchor, athleteWeak Points – Can look tentative in space when pulling Summation – Gabe is a fifth-year senior and a four-year starter for the Bulldogs, He lines up at left guard. He is a huge man at 6033 – 339 with good arm length (33”). Despite his size, Jackson is very athletic and moves well in space. With his size, he is not only strong but very explosive. Jackson always plays from a left handed three-point stance and has really good snap reaction. He gets to his blocks quickly and is very explosive on contact. I saw a number of run blocks where the knees of his opponent buckled when contact was made. Jackson stays low with his run blocks and keeps his feet moving. He can consistently gain ground with his run blocks. Big guys can often struggle getting to the second level. That is not the case with Jackson. He takes good angles out to linebackers and can adjust on the move. If there is a flaw in his game, it’s with pulls. He seems hesitant at times on who to hit and needs to adjust his footwork. Still, you see enough good things to know that he shouldn’t have a problem pulling in the NFL.Jackson is a very consistent pass protector. He sets quickly and has a strong punch. He can play with bend and has the quick feet to slide, recover, and mirror his opponent. With his size, power, and bend, he has excellent anchor ability and never gets pushed back. He has good posture when pass blocking and stays square to the line.Jackson is a very talented lineman. If there is a lineman other than a tackle who has a chance to be drafted in the first round this year, it's Jackson. He is the best interior lineman I have done, to date, this year. He should start for most teams as a rookie and be a productive pro.Guards that weigh just a little over 300 lbs like Zuttah seem to be considered a tad small.Jackson is about the size of Nicks

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    • Anonymous

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      I have Gabe Jackson as my 7th favorite player on my list. I think he is by far the best OG in this draft and wouldn’t be shocked to see him go in the first round. Honestly I am surprised he is not the consensus #1 OG on draft sites. Dude is just a beast. When I watch Yankey I see him on the ground a lot. Not a big fan. After Gabe Jackson, I like Dakota Dozier.Then again....I admittedly suck at scouting OL. So who knows.

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    • Anonymous

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      Dozier is a good choice.  If the Bucs don’t draft a QB at 7, I would be happy with1  Evans WR2 Jackson OL3 Dozier OL

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    • Anonymous

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      Dozier is a good choice.  If the Bucs don't draft a QB at 7, I would be happy with1  Evans WR2 Jackson OL3 Dozier OL

      It's not sexy....but it would be a good draft.

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    • Anonymous

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      Dozier is a good choice.  If the Bucs don't draft a QB at 7, I would be happy with1  Evans WR2 Jackson OL3 Dozier OL

      I know he's no speed demon, but I selfishly want Landry.  He's the honey badger on the offense.  If it's in the air, it's his!

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