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    • Runole

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      Post count: 2153

      All we read for the last 6-8 weeks was that Bucs should draft Mike Evans and since the chance of success of a premium pick is regularly at around 50% I guess that is the safest method in making a selection.  Guess it could be worse than a flip of coin. :-[  JMO but I would like a higher percentage of success but of course that would require making bold moves and not just following like a sheep to what the majority who is only right 50% of the time states.The year that the Bucs drafted Barron, Martin, and David I was shocked and ecstatic with the boldness of those picks and how they were obtained. That truly was the first time as a BUC fan( been here since 1976) I witnessed such a thing. Miraculously they had a chance once again to shock the pro football world but instead went for the 50% probability pick.Loved Dungy but it would appear that being ULTRA conservative has once again returned to the Bucs.    Thought it was interesting when Gruden mentioned he would be buying season tickets had the Bucs pulled the trigger on Manziel.... OH WELL!    ::)   

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 109

      What the… what? They had a huge need at WR and got a receiver that (a) some said was better than Watkins, and (b) made Johnny Football better by bailing him out, and (c) according to Gil Brandt has the best hands since Calvin Johnson, and (d) ran a faster 20 yard shuttle than Watkins, and (e) is a punishing blocker, and (f) is a tough team-oriented player, and (g) is fast enough, and (h) has a huge wingspan… And this crap is your first thought. OK. This is why Bucs fans are always miserable. The glass is always half empty.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Weird that you are seem to be praising Dom now when before you criticized him, much like here, by claiming he just followed Kiper?  Anyway, you used a lot of words but all you were really saying was this, right?

      I wanted Manziel 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 316

      I’m really confused.  You’re upset because they took arguably the best player on the board at a position of need?  Do you think the Falcons screwed up when they took Matthews? Do you want them to make different picks just to be different?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      While it was an easy pick, the way things fell and the player available, that certainly does not mean it was not the RIGHT pick. Need and BPA in many people’s eyes….. what it the problem?Draft amateur GM mania of course.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 310

      This is a good pick; nothing wrong with.  Manziel or Carr would have been a waste.  If Clevland didn’t pick Manziel he would have fallen out of the first round.  He still is Johnny Manziel who runs tippy toe after jumping out of the pocket way to soon.  He is another “Tim Tebow” hype waste.    I hope we trade down some spots and pick up another 3rd or 4th.  By the way, give the GM a break; he’s a rookie.  I am glad Smith has more say so in this draft.  Next year it will be different.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9891

      I'm really confused.  You're upset because they took arguably the best player on the board at a position of need? 

      no, just that we did not take Manziel  ;)

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1858

      Apparently the Texans followed the sheep by drafting Clowney…

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Apparently the Texans followed the sheep by drafting Clowney...

      Gutless cowards

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 67

      Dude who started this pathetic thread…Stevie Wonder could see we needed WR’s and play makers on offense.  The highest we ever drafted a WR at 7 and the highest we ever drafted a TE…sounds pretty bold to me.  WE SUCKED AT OFFENSE PEOPLE!!!!  Thank goodness for a chance at some weapons for a change….like since 1976!!!!Fire them CANNONS

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 357

      Mike Evans and Seferian-Jenkins (or something like that), EXCELLENT picks!!  Sims probably was too but I’m confused at picking him when we had such a need at G and a full stable of running backs.However, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt until I see their entire plan unfold when the season kicks off.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      What the... what? They had a huge need at WR and got a receiver that (a) some said was better than Watkins, and (b) made Johnny Football better by bailing him out, and (c) according to Gil Brandt has the best hands since Calvin Johnson, and (d) ran a faster 20 yard shuttle than Watkins, and (e) is a punishing blocker, and (f) is a tough team-oriented player, and (g) is fast enough, and (h) has a huge wingspan... And this crap is your first thought. OK. This is why Bucs fans are always miserable. The glass is always half empty.

      Relax there is a 50% chance it will be a good pick!  Why because everyone that states Evans was the 2nd best receiver in the draft is right 50% of the time.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Weird that you are seem to be praising Dom now when before you criticized him, much like here, by claiming he just followed Kiper?  Anyway, you used a lot of words but all you were really saying was this, right?

      I wanted Manziel 

      If you think for one second that Dominik was responsible for the draft mentioned you are misinformed.  Benn and Lewis had the Dominik touch!Yes they should have taken Manziel.  Football is entertainment and business and the need for sellouts is critical with the current economy.  Johnny Football would have put the Bucs on the national airwaves over and over versus seldom being mentioned.  Cleveland is instantly relevant and even if Manziel fails (unlikely) Cleveland is going to be front and center on the National stage.  Sorry, I don't look forward to seeing Denver on local TV more than the Bucs again!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Apparently the Texans followed the sheep by drafting Clowney...

      Gutless cowards

      I agree!  At least the Bucs picked a player that can fit their scheme.  Unless the Texans go to a 4 man front I don't see how Clowney even fits.  Lots of luck making him a Linebacker and he is not a 3/4 DE.  Wrong body type.    Texans indeed were sheep that likewise followed the lead of those that are right 50% of the time.  Houston is a more confusing mess than about everybody.  When they tried to make Mario Williams into a 3-4 linebacker they showed their showed their love affair with the 3/4 was a mistake.Now if Houston decides to go to a 4-3 defense Clowney may develop into a decent DE. He still is weak at the point and containment to his side.  I wonder how quick he will pull himself from games now that his wallet is fat?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Mike Evans and Seferian-Jenkins (or something like that), EXCELLENT picks!!  Sims probably was too but I'm confused at picking him when we had such a need at G and a full stable of running backs.However, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt until I see their entire plan unfold when the season kicks off.

      Hey I will always give them the benefit of the doubt but when Lovie says instantly that McCowen is the starter without competition from Glennon, and than states yesterday how much he loves Glennon and he is the QB of the Future?  Please explain why the statement it not totally ambiguous? JMO but I believe because there are a bunch of angry Buc fans that wanted Manziel and now Lovie is speaking with forked tongue.I remember some Chicago fan stated "make sure Lovie brings an offense with him" when he was hired by the Bucs.  I  am beginning to understand that remark. Just hope that Tedford will allay my concerns.Hey up to this point has been all good and since Evans fits a need it isn't that bad.  Just could have been better if the Bucs had been bold and pulled the trigger.  Guarantee you would be hearing about the Bucs in about every broadcast at this time. Last night they didn't even announce the 3rd round pick until they had to.. ???

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 357

      Run ole you seem to be more interested in the publicity the Bucs get than whether or not they win games. Certainly Lovie’s past weakness was developing an offense but it seems to me that using his first 3 picks on offense indicates his awareness of that and his determination to “fix” that.As to a lot of angry Buc fans because he didn't draft Manziel, there would have been an equal number, (count me in THIS group) who would have been angry that he did.  Just admit it, this rant is just that, a rant because they didn't draft Manziel.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1110

      Hey I will always give them the benefit of the doubt but when Lovie says instantly that McCowen is the starter without competition from Glennon, and than states yesterday how much he loves Glennon and he is the QB of the Future?  Please explain why the statement it not totally ambiguous?

      I certainly am wrestling with his "flip-flopping" on Glennon.  Coach Lovie has not done a whole lot to instill his confidence in Mike G. , that's for sure. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Run ole you seem to be more interested in the publicity the Bucs get than whether or not they win games. Certainly Lovie's past weakness was developing an offense but it seems to me that using his first 3 picks on offense indicates his awareness of that and his determination to "fix" that.As to a lot of angry Buc fans because he didn't draft Manziel, there would have been an equal number, (count me in THIS group) who would have been angry that he did.  Just admit it, this rant is just that, a rant because they didn't draft Manziel.

      I am sure many fans and certainly all the draft gurus would have been outraged if Russell Wilson had been taken early in the first round..  All I hear from them now is CRICKETS!  Hey  we will see soon enough how well Cleveland does with Manziel at QB.  I do believe he has less of a supporting cast so that might be a bit unfair.  Hey I am not that angry with the Bucs I just think they lacked the Balls to make the pick.  Hey Cleveland was chicken as well... Gotta keep that 50% success rate intact! lol

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Runole, Dom wasps the GM. Anyway, thanks for letting us all know (for a few pages) that you wanted Manziel

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Runole, Dom wasps the GM. Anyway, thanks for letting us all know (for a few pages) that you wanted Manziel

      Your WelcomeSomething I look for in evaluation of QB's is the supporting cast and the type of competition the QB faced in college.  Texas A&M had a horrible defense and allowed 32 points a game to the opponents faced in 2013. Despite this Manziel was able to carve out a 9-4 record last season with the offense averaging 44 points a game. That is a QB carrying the team on his back against arguably the toughest CFB conference in America with more NFL prospects than any other.In the NFL there is considerably more parity among the 32 teams.  With a level playing field I expect Manziel to prosper just like Wilson and Brees.  Hey Gruden seems to have the same opinion and I do believe he knows QB's.  He and I could be completely wrong.  We shall see..Do you honestly think Glennon is a better QB prospect than Manziel?  If so based on what?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 357

      I believe Manziel had a “little” help in carving out that record. I wouldn’t exactly say he carried them on his back.  He had an OT protecting him that went 6th in the draft (long before Manziel did) AND a WR who would catch the ball when Manziel would frequently just throw the ball up in the air, who went 7th in the draft.  ALSO long before Johnny Football.  I'm not saying Manziel wasn't a good QB or that he won't be a good NFL QB; I'm just saying I am very glad we drafted Mike Evans instead of Johnny Manziel.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      I believe Manziel had a "little" help in carving out that record. I wouldn't exactly say he carried them on his back.  He had an OT protecting him that went 6th in the draft (long before Manziel did) AND a WR who would catch the ball when Manziel would frequently just throw the ball up in the air, who went 7th in the draft.  ALSO long before Johnny Football.  I'm not saying Manziel wasn't a good QB or that he won't be a good NFL QB; I'm just saying I am very glad we drafted Mike Evans instead of Johnny Manziel.

      Yes he did have some supporting cast but lets watch A&M this season and see how well they score on offense.  JMO and again I thought Manziels first year was an anomaly and he would be killed by SEC defenses last season. Didn't happen while Manziel carried the team despite a defense that was like tissue paper.Meanwhile,  the #1 greatest defensive player in the history of football regularly pulled himself out of games and had a mediocre season.  One player steps up to the pump the other is just looking for a paycheck.  Hey that is Houston's problem!  Clowney is not a Linebacker or 3/4 defensive end.  Shame such a gifted athlete has so little desire and heart to excel.  It was embarrassing watching him last season but worse was those making excuses for him.Hey the Evans pick wasn't a bad one but I am not convinced that he will be considered the 2nd best WR in this draft in the next couple of years.  Hey with a 50% success rate on these picks who really knows?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 357

      What does Clowney have to do with the discussion?As to A&M dropping on offense next year, that's what happens when you have 3 offensive players taken in the first 22 picks of the NFL draft, two of which were taken in the first 7 picks; NEITHER of them Johnny Football.  As I said, he WAS a terrific college QB and if he can stay healthy AND put in the time required instead of spending too much of his time with LeBron and others, he can be a very good NFL QB.  I'm just not convinced he can and will.....obviously neither did quite a few NFL teams and their reams of data.Time will certainly tell......

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      What does Clowney have to do with the discussion?Not much but just pointing out the difference in both players desire to excel and never let up.As to A&M dropping on offense next year, that's what happens when you have 3 offensive players taken in the first 22 picks of the NFL draft, two of which were taken in the first 7 picks; NEITHER of them Johnny Football.  FSU has 11 players taken in the draft in 2012 and they certainly didn't suffer.  JMO but A&M is going to have quite a fall off next season and the reason IMO is the loss of Manziel. Again where they are picked is just an opinion that I believe too often is skewed by combine numbers.  The proof will be shown the next couple years when statistically about 50% of the 1st 3rounds will be busts. As I said, he WAS a terrific college QB and if he can stay healthy AND put in the time required instead of spending too much of his time with LeBron and others, he can be a very good NFL QB.  I'm just not convinced he can and will.....obviously neither did quite a few NFL teams and their reams of data.We will choose to disagree.  While it certainly will depend on supporting cast I think his chances of staying healthy are far greater than Brees and Wilson because he is more agile and quicker than either of them.  Using NFL teams judgment that is only right about 50% of the time is not a convincing argument.  Sapp and Brooks lasted well into the 1st round.  How successful were they?Time will certainly tell.....Yes it will.  One thing certain the nation will have its eyes on Cleveland all year WIN OR LOSE while Tampa will continue to be the enema of the NFL.

      Personally, I would like to see Tampa get a bit more respect from the media and that would have happened with Manziel.  I still think that the Bucs are going to be successful with the new regime but they could have "soared with the eagles" with the pick of Manziel. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 357

      Sapp lasted until # 12 ONLY because of his reported drug use.  At the end of the previous season, he was the concensus #1 pick in the entire draft; then the rumors started.Brooks was considered too small to excel by the NFL, until he got on an NFL field.....

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Sapp lasted until # 12 ONLY because of his reported drug use.  At the end of the previous season, he was the concensus #1 pick in the entire draft; then the rumors started.Brooks was considered too small to excel by the NFL, until he got on an NFL field.....

      It's really stunning that Brooks survived so long in the NFL. I had a friend who had interviewed Brooks extensively when he was at FSU and thought the world of him. He told me he had serious concerns with holding up due to his size. I was skeptical, but then I met Brooks in person at the U.S. Capitol building when FSU won the national title. He looked maxed out, and not all that bigger than me. What a career he carved out. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Sapp lasted until # 12 ONLY because of his reported drug use.  At the end of the previous season, he was the concensus #1 pick in the entire draft; then the rumors started.Brooks was considered too small to excel by the NFL, until he got on an NFL field.....

      It's really stunning that Brooks survived so long in the NFL. I had a friend who had interviewed Brooks extensively when he was at FSU and thought the world of him. He told me he had serious concerns with holding up due to his size. I was skeptical, but then I met Brooks in person at the U.S. Capitol building when FSU won the national title. He looked maxed out, and not all that bigger than me. What a career he carved out.

      amen

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Sapp lasted until # 12 ONLY because of his reported drug use.  At the end of the previous season, he was the concensus #1 pick in the entire draft; then the rumors started.Brooks was considered too small to excel by the NFL, until he got on an NFL field.....

      So in other words those teams that passed on them had them evaluated wrongly no matter what the reason.The Bucs had a chance for a Home run and chose to take a single instead.      Wonder how angry the Glazer's will be when they see Cleveland selling out every game and being covered by the National media every day while there continues to be little if anything about the Bucs?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Will Cleveland sell tickets to see Manziel hold a clipboard?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      The Bucs had a chance for a Home run and chose to take a single instead.      Wonder how angry the Glazer's will be when they see Cleveland selling out every game and being covered by the National media every day while there continues to be little if anything about the Bucs?

      This sounds similar to building a restaurant around a fancy logo rather than good food.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 357

      Ruin ole you continue to focus on media attention rater than winning football games.  I prefer to win football games.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Ruin ole you continue to focus on media attention rater than winning football games.  I prefer to win football games.

      So you believe that media attention means you can't win football games?    Generally they tend to go together.  Manziel is a Winner Texas A&M with Manziel in the SEC  ( considered the toughest Conference in the FBS)  20-6 2012/2013Texas A&M without Manziel in the Big 12 ( not  considered the toughest conference in the FBS  16-10    2010/2011Or lets go for a full decade in winning %  before Manziel  64-60  51.6 %    With Manziel 76.9 % winning %

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Ruin ole you continue to focus on media attention rater than winning football games.  I prefer to win football games.

      So you believe that media attention means you can't win football games?   

      lol. your simple point is that you wanted manziel, but its responses like this one that make your threads drag on.  how in the world could you read Joe's comment and conclude that he meant "media attention means you can't win football games" ? wow

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Ruin ole you continue to focus on media attention rater than winning football games.  I prefer to win football games.

      So you believe that media attention means you can't win football games?   

      lol. your simple point is that you wanted manziel, but its responses like this one that make your threads drag on.  how in the world could you read Joe's comment and conclude that he meant "media attention means you can't win football games" ? wow

      The inference was that I only wanted Manziel due the media attention and didn't consider success in that desire.  Not true!  I believe Manziel would bring both to Tampa.  Cleveland currently is predicted to be last in the league by some.  Tampa personnel wise is in far better shape which is another reason I would preferred Tampa swing for the home run.  Tell me seriously that you believe McCowen or Glennon are the future QB's of this franchise?  They both are band aids at best.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 357

      Well that’s YOUR opinion. As for Manziel being a “home run”, it would appear that the Bucs weren’t the only team that didn’t see him that way. I can certainly dispute that drafting Evans was “hitting a single”.IOf course I don't think you can't have both media attention and win. As you well know I never said anything to merit that comment. I said you seemMORE FOCUSED on the media attention than winning, NOT that you didn't care about winning.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      http://tbo.com/sports/bucs/casserly-bucs-passing-on-manziel-was-right-call-20140515/

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Texas A&M with Manziel in the SEC  ( considered the toughest Conference in the FBS)  20-6 2012/2013Texas A&M without Manziel in the Big 12 ( not  considered the toughest conference in the FBS  16-10    2010/2011Or lets go for a full decade in winning %  before Manziel  64-60  51.6 %    With Manziel 76.9 % winning %

      what is Texas a&m with sumlin vs the decade before him?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Runole, Dom wasps the GM. Anyway, thanks for letting us all know (for a few pages) that you wanted Manziel

      Your WelcomeSomething I look for in evaluation of QB's is the supporting cast and the type of competition the QB faced in college.  Texas A&M had a horrible defense and allowed 32 points a game to the opponents faced in 2013. Despite this Manziel was able to carve out a 9-4 record last season with the offense averaging 44 points a game. That is a QB carrying the team on his back against arguably the toughest CFB conference in America with more NFL prospects than any other.In the NFL there is considerably more parity among the 32 teams.  With a level playing field I expect Manziel to prosper just like Wilson and Brees.  Hey Gruden seems to have the same opinion and I do believe he knows QB's.   He and I could be completely wrong.  We shall see..Do you honestly think Glennon is a better QB prospect than Manziel?  If so based on what?

      While i buy your stance.....and agree with most of it, the bolded portion is where you argument went to hell.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      http://tbo.com/sports/bucs/casserly-bucs-passing-on-manziel-was-right-call-20140515/

      Hey the Experts?  are correct 50% of the time historically on which players  drafted in the first 3 rounds are successful versus those that are busts.Evans was the overwhelming pick for the Bucs by the experts with that track record which is why anyone predicting who won or who lost is full of sheet at this conjecture.It took me awhile but I don't consider someone that is only right 50% of the time to be exactly a reliable source of what will be successful or failureOne look at Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks and when they were picked.  Hey Tim Tebow was a first rounder that Denver actually moved up to get!Even Cleveland does not get a pass.  Hey I could be wrong and Manziel will flop but I was one of those that was singing Russell Wilson's praises and couldn't understand why he lasted until the 3rd round.  I also was maligned by many when I ridiculed the Bucs for moving up to take Benn and the ridiculous pick of Myron Lewis in the 3rd round.  I also was a strong critic of Dom and Rah rah  Hmmm?    Guess that was just a lucky guess?    I have been pleased so far with the Bucs until they passed on Manziel and made the ridiculous praise of Glennon and him being  the QB of the future for the Bucs.    NOT GOOD!  Quite an ambiguous statement after naming McCowen the starter before he plays a down with the Bucs.Hey I understand perfectly why the last statement for Glennon was made.    All to placate all those Buc fans that feel Manziel should have been selected.  Instead it in my case was a statement that was less than truthful and casts the first doubtful decision of the new regime.    Hey all will be well if they can get Winston when he comes out!!  :DPoint is we can revisit this topic at the end of the season and see what the real answer is.    The old saying  POTENTIAL means you haven't done anything YET!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Runole, Dom wasps the GM. Anyway, thanks for letting us all know (for a few pages) that you wanted Manziel

      Your WelcomeSomething I look for in evaluation of QB's is the supporting cast and the type of competition the QB faced in college.  Texas A&M had a horrible defense and allowed 32 points a game to the opponents faced in 2013. Despite this Manziel was able to carve out a 9-4 record last season with the offense averaging 44 points a game. That is a QB carrying the team on his back against arguably the toughest CFB conference in America with more NFL prospects than any other.In the NFL there is considerably more parity among the 32 teams.  With a level playing field I expect Manziel to prosper just like Wilson and Brees.  Hey Gruden seems to have the same opinion and I do believe he knows QB's.   He and I could be completely wrong.  We shall see..Do you honestly think Glennon is a better QB prospect than Manziel?  If so based on what?

      While i buy your stance.....and agree with most of it, the bolded portion is where you argument went to hell.

      Hey I understand someone with the moniker HATE has to have someone to dislike. ;)    I think Gruden knows a good QB when he see's one but he certainly could be wrong. Wasn't  he in love with Tebow?    :o

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Well that's YOUR opinion. As for Manziel being a "home run", it would appear that the Bucs weren't the only team that didn't see him that way.

      Joe, you know how much i value your opinion but i absolutely HATE that line of thinking. If every team is to think the same, why have a GM? Lets just pluck names from Kiper or McShay's draft boards.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Texas A&M with Manziel in the SEC  ( considered the toughest Conference in the FBS)  20-6 2012/2013Texas A&M without Manziel in the Big 12 ( not  considered the toughest conference in the FBS  16-10    2010/2011Or lets go for a full decade in winning %  before Manziel  64-60  51.6 %    With Manziel 76.9 % winning %

      what is Texas a&m with sumlin vs the decade before him?

      My mistake I didn't realize that he arrived the same time Manziel did.Just a reference to Texas A&M before they got in the "mighty" sec.  Now you may wish to give all the credit of A&M success the last 2 years to Sumlin I give it to Manziel.We will see this season how much or how little Manziel meant to Texas A&M.  Their defense should be better since it couldn't get much worse, but we shall see if it is the scheme or the player pulling the trigger of the offense that is the difference. Mat Joeckel is a RS junior should step right in where Manziel left off  right?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Well that's YOUR opinion. As for Manziel being a "home run", it would appear that the Bucs weren't the only team that didn't see him that way.

      Joe, you know how much i value your opinion but i absolutely HATE that line of thinking. If every team is to think the same, why have a GM? Lets just pluck names from Kiper or McShay's draft boards.

      Unfortunately, that appears to be exactly what the vast majority of the NFL teams do.  It always looks to me like they all read the same Hymnal that is right 50% of the time! ::)

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4407

      Well that's YOUR opinion. As for Manziel being a "home run", it would appear that the Bucs weren't the only team that didn't see him that way. I can certainly dispute that drafting Evans was "hitting a single".IOf course I don't think you can't have both media attention and win. As you well know I never said anything to merit that comment. I said you seemMORE FOCUSED on the media attention than winning, NOT that you didn't care about winning.

      glad I cleared that up.  I was interested in both.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 357

      Sorry you don’t like that line of thinking Hate. I was simply pointing out to Runole that the Bucs weren’t the only team who didn’t consider Manziel  “home run”. I will add that neither did I consider him one.I also find it interesting that Charlie Casserley who Runole thinks is just wonderful (or use to) didn't even think Manziel was a first round pick.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4407

      Sorry you don't like that line of thinking Hate. I was simply pointing out to Runole that the Bucs weren't the only team who didn't consider Manziel  "home run". I will add that neither did I consider him one.I also find it interesting that Charlie Casserley who Runole thinks is just wonderful (or use to) didn't even think Manziel was a first round pick.

      Hey I do like Casserly but I believe he is wrong on this one.  Nobody is right all the time.    We choose to disagree.  I am fairly certain Charlie didn't think much of Wilson either.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 357

      Mayock certainly thought a lot of Russell Wilson.Hey no problem about disagreeing on any aspect of football. I just never understand it when the position isn't "I don't agree and my analysis is different" but is "they didn't do what I think they should have therefore they aren't't as smart as I am"

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    • Anonymous

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      Mayock certainly thought a lot of Russell Wilson.Hey no problem about disagreeing on any aspect of football. I just never understand it when the position isn't "I don't agree and my analysis is different" but is "they didn't do what I think they should have therefore they aren't't as smart as I am"

      Mayock certainly thought a lot of Russell Wilson.??Mayocks Top 100 2012 draft...    No Russell WIlson on the boardhttp://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d8288a470/article/mike-mayocks-top-100-nfl-draft-prospect-rankingsHey I am not professing that I am smarter than they are but after over 50 years of following Pro Football I have serious doubts on their abilities to predict success or failure of the first 3 rounds of the draft as confirmed by their 50% success rate.Hey I seldom stick my neck out with a strong opinion and certainly if I am wrong about Manziel I will admit I was wrong.  Over the years I have been a strong critic of Dominik and Raheem..  My concerns were proven correct.  Likewise when I railed about Benn and Lewis and how I thought the method by the way they were picked was open to criticism.Like I said the last (3) years I have been extremely pleased with the off seasons from free agents to the draft. The new regime is an A grade IMO until they passed on Manziel IMHO.  Their remarks justifying the move just sounded like BS.  I just hope that this years offense doesn't resemble "DUNGY PART 2".  So far Tedford has stayed out of the conversation so he gets the benefit of the doubt at this time.Just a bit concerned.

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    • Anonymous

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      For the record, as Manziel continued his slide, i was praying we’d trade back into the 1st and snag him. Now THAT would’ve brought a lil sizzle to this franchise….and some winning, IMO.

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    • Anonymous

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      As I said, I was VERY happy they didn’t draft Manziel.As to Russell Wilson, Mayock VERBALLY said something to the effect, " if he was two or three inches taller, I would have him as a first round pick and so would everybody else". Again, that isn't a direct quote despite the quote marks. He went on to say that he would go.to war,with Wilson as his QB any day.

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    • Anonymous

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      As I said, I was VERY happy they didn't draft Manziel.As to Russell Wilson, Mayock VERBALLY said something to the effect, " if he was two or three inches taller, I would have him as a first round pick and so would everybody else". Again, that isn't a direct quote despite the quote marks. He went on to say that he would go.to war,with Wilson as his QB any day.

      if he was two or three inches taller, I would have him as a first round pick And that is the whole problem with many of these self- proclaimed Gurus.  JMO but I think they have extreme amnesia towards actual performance and production.One look at how Wilson elevated Wisconsin following a great career at NC St was completely ignored due to his numbers at the combine. ( specifically height).That is why Clowney despite taking plays off and turning in dreadful season was elevated to the # 1 pick in the draft.  It is going to be real interesting watching how they try make a non-instinctive player into a outside linebacker with far more responsibilities.  Clowney at this point in time is no more than a 3rd down pass rusher in a 4-3 defense.  I believe he will really struggle as 3 - 4 DL.      So there are two bold predictions that you completely disagree with I believe.  Manziel will flop and Clowney will be one of the greatest DL/OlB's in the history of the sport.    I think the exact opposite will happen and it comes from Character, Heart, and the incredible desire to always get better. I see that in Manziel. I don't see it in Clowney.  The first hint will be how quickly they sign that first contract.

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    • Anonymous

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      Never said Manziel will flop, I said I didn’t want him.  Don’t try to distort what I said. I also never said Clowney would be the greatest player at ANY position. However I don’t agree that he is only a 3rd down specialist either.

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    • Anonymous

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      Never said Manziel will flop, I said I didn't want him.  Don't try to distort what I said. I also never said Clowney would be the greatest player at ANY position. However I don't agree that he is only a 3rd down specialist either.

      Fair enough...  Why don't you want Manziel?    As to Clowney do you think he is a OLB and 3-4 DL?

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    • Anonymous

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      No, I don’t think Clowney is an OLB. I think he will be out of position playing there. I think is is a 4-3 DE who can play the run and the pass at a high level…..as a DE, not as an OLB. I think the better choice for Houston was Mack if they are going to play the 3-4.As to Manziel, I just don't think he would be that good for the Bucs. I DO think he seems to be a pretty good fit for the Browns.

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