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    • Runole

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      Post count: 2152

      Clowney ( unless you consider a 3rd down specialist to be a great draft choice)  and A.J. Mccarron. JMO

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 53

      I disagree with you on Clowney but agree with A.J. McCarron. I consider disruption to be production. It’s not as flashy as sacks or tackles for loss, but if you can move a QB off their spot or force plays to one side of the field, I believe you are making a significant impact on the game. Teams constantly ran away from him, double teamed him, and chipped him. There was only one game in 2013 where I believe that Clowney didn’t give great effort (Mizzou). From a strict football talent viewpoint, I don’t think there is a better prospect in this draft. He has an excellent swim move to go along with excellent strength and speed. Against the run, he can anchor well against double teams and contains well from the backside. I’d like to hear more about why you think Clowney is just a third down specialist and a potential “bust”.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1357

      Eric,What are your thoughts on Bridgewater? He seems to have suffered a fall from grace, once thought to be #1 overall, some think he may fall late into round 1, even round 2 for others.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1091

      Clowney from a physical standpoint is the epitome of what one would want in a defensive end prospect. He has the triangle numbers (Height / Weight & Speed) – the question for me is not from a physical and technical view point based on his collegiate body of work but more from a  want to / desire standpoint. And its not something that cant be measured but does he have the heart to want to be great at the NFL level or will money further distance his desire to play like his hair is on fire every snap – like tomorrow is not guaranteed? The problem I have is great gifted athletes with superior talent find a way to produce on a consistent basis  even when being double-teamed and chipped. However, I think using sacks only as a judge of what a D-Line prospects has done is misleading - there are countless other aspects of producing that are quantifiable - case in point one needs to look no further then the recent signing of DE Michael Johnson and his raw sack numbers last year - they tell a bad story of Johnsons true impact and overall production. If you look at him get to the drop point and forcing the QB in to other rushers - his impact was far greater as he created chances for other teammates - but did not get the gaudy sack numbers some look for. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 310

      I would love for Clowney to fall, but he won’t be there for us at No. 7.  I hope we stay calm and breath out when our guy is there, then we make the calls to see who can convince us to trade down for additional draft picks and or player.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      I disagree with you on Clowney but agree with A.J. McCarron. I consider disruption to be production. It's not as flashy as sacks or tackles for loss, but if you can move a QB off their spot or force plays to one side of the field, I believe you are making a significant impact on the game. Teams constantly ran away from him, double teamed him, and chipped him. There was only one game in 2013 where I believe that Clowney didn't give great effort (Mizzou). From a strict football talent viewpoint, I don't think there is a better prospect in this draft. He has an excellent swim move to go along with excellent strength and speed. Against the run, he can anchor well against double teams and contains well from the backside. I'd like to hear more about why you think Clowney is just a third down specialist and a potential "bust".

      I agree with you on Clowney - I really didn't watch a lot of SC this year, and based on the chatter last year, expected to see a disaster. But when I've gone through some of the Draft Breakdown games, I've been impressed. I don't see much loafing - I see a guy creating problems for opponents, and it was stunning to see how many running plays go away from him. When they did run at him, it often was disguised as a play away from him first. I would have liked to have seen more sacks this year of course, but I agree - disruption matters. On McCarron - he's one of my least favorite QBs in the draft. I get a distinct Cade McCown whiff off of him - a guy seen as a great leader in college who comes to town with an entitlement attitude who won't take any blame for short-comings.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 53

      Eric,What are your thoughts on Bridgewater? He seems to have suffered a fall from grace, once thought to be #1 overall, some think he may fall late into round 1, even round 2 for others.

      I still am very high on Bridgewater. However, I have him falling to the second round in my mock draft coming later out later this week. It seems that decision-makers in the NFL don't feel the same way myself and other media members do. There are rumors of a big draft day slide for Bridgewater. I had Bridgewater ranked as the third best prospect in the draft in my most recent big board (under Clowney and Watkins). He's a great decision maker and has excellent accuracy, which are the two most important attributes for a quarterback IMO. I'm not concerned with his arm strength, poor pro day, or size. I think he will be a successful quarterback and is deserving of a top 10 selection.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1110

      Whether Clowney was pacing himself or loafing during the games to me is subjective and not even close to being the most troubling issue.  The problem I have is the incident before the Kentucky game.  He was held out of practice Thursday due to bruised ribs, but was expected to play on the weekend.  Neither a doctor nor a trainer called him unable to play, but Clowney himself declared himself out before kickoff.  Further, when Spurrier said, “if he doesn’t want to play, he doesn’t have to play”  that raised a large red flag for me.  Was, and is this guy “eating, breathing, and sleeping” football,  more concerned about getting hurt before the 2014 draft, or does he know more than the trainers about his bruised rib condition and ability to play?  I don’t know the answer, but if I’m not drafting him, I don’t have to worry about the answer.Clowney and his agent(s), after "getting the money", may feel some less pressure to worry about an injury and play at an all-world level for 12 years,  but seeing a potentially gargantuous contract two or three years from now might bring on similar incidents.  It's speculating about what his motives and actions might be, but with such a high first round pick, I want to speculate as little as possible.  I would pass.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      I disagree with you on Clowney but agree with A.J. McCarron. I consider disruption to be production. It's not as flashy as sacks or tackles for loss, but if you can move a QB off their spot or force plays to one side of the field, I believe you are making a significant impact on the game. Teams constantly ran away from him, double teamed him, and chipped him. There was only one game in 2013 where I believe that Clowney didn't give great effort (Mizzou). From a strict football talent viewpoint, I don't think there is a better prospect in this draft. He has an excellent swim move to go along with excellent strength and speed. Against the run, he can anchor well against double teams and contains well from the backside. I'd like to hear more about why you think Clowney is just a third down specialist and a potential "bust".

      Oh I agree that Clowney has all the numbers. My problem has been the hype that evolved around a single play in a meaningless bowl game elevated to him being called the greatest CFB player  in history and some pundits stating that he was already better than JJ Watts before the 2013 season began.I see a player that is lazy  and generally a "one trick pony" that has only one skill and that is rushing the QB.  He is not even close to being a polished DE for all aspects of the position. He is only looking for a big paycheck which was obvious in his pretty much taking the entire 2013 season off.  When your own head coach Spurrier questions his effort?  Sapp hates the guy!  and there are others that see the exact same thing I do.  He is going to be a player that will pull himself from games if he has a hangnail.  Teams will be able to run right at him all game. I saw this many times last season.  Hey he will be able to retire off that first bonus check and that is what I expect him to do.  The whole 2013 season was filled with excuse makers that put him on a pedestal before the season started and rather than admit they were wrong refused to acknowledge what was before their very eyes.  Hey perhaps he indeed will do a 180 and become an every down DE. At this time I don't see it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 861

      +1

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 171

      I think Yucc states the Clowney problem perfectly.  His greatest value to the Texans might be to tempt someone into overpaying to trade up.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      See, I think the Texans spot is perfect. For one thing, you stick him behind Watts and it’s going to a match-up nightmare. Watch Whitney Mercilus pile up some serious numbers. Two, I think Watt would be a great role-model for Clowney.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      See, I think the Texans spot is perfect. For one thing, you stick him behind Watts and it's going to a match-up nightmare. Watch Whitney Mercilus pile up some serious numbers. Two, I think Watt would be a great role-model for Clowney.

      As a situational 3rd down specialist I agree.  That would also allow Clowney to only play one down a series which would work fine.  If all he has to do is rush the passer he probably could be very good at it.  I say probably because I haven't seen him face NFL quality Tackles every week.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      See, I think the Texans spot is perfect. For one thing, you stick him behind Watts and it's going to a match-up nightmare. Watch Whitney Mercilus pile up some serious numbers. Two, I think Watt would be a great role-model for Clowney.

      As a situational 3rd down specialist I agree.  That would also allow Clowney to only play one down a series which would work fine.  If all he has to do is rush the passer he probably could be very good at it.  I say probably because I haven't seen him face NFL quality Tackles every week.

      I can't even tell if this is real - He's not going to be a "3rd down specialist" in the pros. Of course you haven't seen him face NFL quality tackles every week - you can say that about the entire NCAA pass-rushing community. But go watch him play against the TN boys - both of whom will be drafted - and watch what happened. Steve White has pointed out some things he can't do in the pros - he tends to run around blocks in the run game (successfully, I should point out) and that's a no-no in the NFL.  That said, that's more of a 4-3 issue. I'm really stunned at how down everybody is on Clowney here. Personally, he's not close to my favorite player in the draft, but I think he's going to be an absolute beast in the pros. People said a lot of the same things about Aldon Smith coming out, and guys like Merriman, Peppers, and Mario Williams were dinged for taking plays off.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2275

      A hungry and motivated Clowney is the best Defender in this draft hands down. Problem is, I can’t see him being either of those things. Doesn’t seem to love football, but wants that cash.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 357

      Runole, I just don’t know what you are watching when you say what you are about Clowney.  Is his work ethic questionable? Absolutely!  However, when you call him a “one trick pony”, it makes me wonder how much of him you have seen.  If he can’t play the run, why did teams run away from him so often? He was also CONSTANTLY double-teamed and even TRIPLED on some plays!IMO, he is, without question, one of the most talented defensive players to come out in the draft in the last decade.....BUT he carries question marks as to effort and work ethic.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 517

      Highest bust factor = Benjamin. He Has Mike Williams (USC type) written all over him.Clowneys bust factor is different. I have a real hard time seeing him crash and burn. The question with him is more generational vs good/competent pass rusher.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Runole, I just don't know what you are watching when you say what you are about Clowney.  Is his work ethic questionable? Absolutely!  However, when you call him a "one trick pony", it makes me wonder how much of him you have seen.  If he can't play the run, why did teams run away from him so often? He was also CONSTANTLY double-teamed and even TRIPLED on some plays!IMO, he is, without question, one of the most talented defensive players to come out in the draft in the last decade.....BUT he carries question marks as to effort and work ethic.

      +1

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      See, I think the Texans spot is perfect. For one thing, you stick him behind Watts and it's going to a match-up nightmare. Watch Whitney Mercilus pile up some serious numbers. Two, I think Watt would be a great role-model for Clowney.

      As a situational 3rd down specialist I agree.  That would also allow Clowney to only play one down a series which would work fine.  If all he has to do is rush the passer he probably could be very good at it.  I say probably because I haven't seen him face NFL quality Tackles every week.

      I can't even tell if this is real - He's not going to be a "3rd down specialist" in the pros. Of course you haven't seen him face NFL quality tackles every week - you can say that about the entire NCAA pass-rushing community. But go watch him play against the TN boys - both of whom will be drafted - and watch what happened. Steve White has pointed out some things he can't do in the pros - he tends to run around blocks in the run game (successfully, I should point out) and that's a no-no in the NFL.  That said, that's more of a 4-3 issue. I'm really stunned at how down everybody is on Clowney here. Personally, he's not close to my favorite player in the draft, but I think he's going to be an absolute beast in the pros. People said a lot of the same things about Aldon Smith coming out, and guys like Merriman, Peppers, and Mario Williams were dinged for taking plays off.

      Actually, the majority of the nation has already labeled him the greatest defensive player in football history and not already better than Watts but having a seat in Canton already reserved.    After last season.... I just don't see it..  I see a lazy  3rd down specialist that pulls himself out of games.  My assertion has been confirmed by Warren Sapp which I think has pretty credible opinions on such things.  I can see him being this years Tony Mandarich.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Runole, I just don't know what you are watching when you say what you are about Clowney.  Is his work ethic questionable? Absolutely!  However, when you call him a "one trick pony", it makes me wonder how much of him you have seen.  If he can't play the run, why did teams run away from him so often? He was also CONSTANTLY double-teamed and even TRIPLED on some plays!IMO, he is, without question, one of the most talented defensive players to come out in the draft in the last decade.....BUT he carries question marks as to effort and work ethic.

      +1

      I watched several games last season.  Anytime teams ran at him or to his side I saw consistent success.    I don't deny that he has great pass rushing skills when he infrequently decides to show them but that is the problem.  He was constantly getting taken out of plays run to his side of the field.  Don't know why more OC's didn't run more plays his direction...  Guess they  were too afraid of his PRESS CLIPPINGS! ;)Wonder why Spurrier doesn't sing his praises?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Runole, I just don't know what you are watching when you say what you are about Clowney.  Is his work ethic questionable? Absolutely!  However, when you call him a "one trick pony", it makes me wonder how much of him you have seen.  If he can't play the run, why did teams run away from him so often? He was also CONSTANTLY double-teamed and even TRIPLED on some plays!IMO, he is, without question, one of the most talented defensive players to come out in the draft in the last decade.....BUT he carries question marks as to effort and work ethic.

      +1

      I watched several games last season.  Anytime teams ran at him or to his side I saw consistent success.    I don't deny that he has great pass rushing skills when he infrequently decides to show them but that is the problem.  He was constantly getting taken out of plays run to his side of the field.  Don't know why more OC's didn't run more plays his direction...  Guess they  were too afraid of his PRESS CLIPPINGS! ;)Wonder why Spurrier doesn't sing his praises?

      Wonder why his DC does.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      See, I think the Texans spot is perfect. For one thing, you stick him behind Watts and it's going to a match-up nightmare. Watch Whitney Mercilus pile up some serious numbers. Two, I think Watt would be a great role-model for Clowney.

      As a situational 3rd down specialist I agree.  That would also allow Clowney to only play one down a series which would work fine.  If all he has to do is rush the passer he probably could be very good at it.  I say probably because I haven't seen him face NFL quality Tackles every week.

      I can't even tell if this is real - He's not going to be a "3rd down specialist" in the pros. Of course you haven't seen him face NFL quality tackles every week - you can say that about the entire NCAA pass-rushing community. But go watch him play against the TN boys - both of whom will be drafted - and watch what happened. Steve White has pointed out some things he can't do in the pros - he tends to run around blocks in the run game (successfully, I should point out) and that's a no-no in the NFL.  That said, that's more of a 4-3 issue. I'm really stunned at how down everybody is on Clowney here. Personally, he's not close to my favorite player in the draft, but I think he's going to be an absolute beast in the pros. People said a lot of the same things about Aldon Smith coming out, and guys like Merriman, Peppers, and Mario Williams were dinged for taking plays off.

      Actually, the majority of the nation has already labeled him the greatest defensive player in football history and not already better than Watts but having a seat in Canton already reserved.    After last season.... I just don't see it..  I see a lazy  3rd down specialist that pulls himself out of games.  My assertion has been confirmed by Warren Sapp which I think has pretty credible opinions on such things.  I can see him being this years Tony Mandarich.

      I was talking mostly about people on the board. I'm a huge fan of Sapp and respect his opinion, but I disagree with it (as does Steve White, I might add, and I know that White has watched film). Hey, he thought Marcel Dareus was going to be a bust.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 357

      Run ole, you may have watched several games but you and I are just not seeing the same player.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Here is my opinion absent his lack of desire and heart.He is not a 3-4 defensive end and never will be for his body type.  Likewise I just don't see him as a Linebacker in that formation either as he has poor diagnostic ability.His position at present is a 4-3 DE as primarily a 3rd down specialist. Until he learns containment for outside runs to his side and plays the run  right at him he is only good as a 3rd down specialist.  Yes he has great physical talent and is great at getting in the backfield and running down plays to the opposite side but it ends there at this time.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Highest bust factor = Benjamin. He Has Mike Williams (USC type) written all over him.Clowneys bust factor is different. I have a real hard time seeing him crash and burn. The question with him is more generational vs good/competent pass rusher.

      I have never read anywhere that Benjamin has ever been considered a top 5 pick.  He is at best the 7th or 8th best WR in the draft maybe even lower.  His only thing going for him is his size and how he high points the ball. Drops too many easy passes. Still is not a good route runner. If not for his age he would have benefited from another year at FSU.  May end up being a hybrid TE.  Doubtful he will go before the 2nd round.  All that being said he certainly made an outstanding catch in the MNC game for 14-0 FSU to secure the win.  Meanwhile the gators ended up 4-8 and not only losing to FSU by a score of 37-7 for the largest margin of victory at BHG in FSU's history, but also the gators lost to GS for the worst  loss in modern CFB history.  GS didn't even complete a PASS!!!    :o  GO NOLES!    Miserable season for gators.  Hey there is only one way to go for them... Up...  I think of it as the curse for all those arrested players that were not punished during the Tebow years when they even coddled Hernandez.  :o

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