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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 3369

      Firearm dealers should be able to sell guns

      by mail without seeing the buyer or verifying the signature,

      just like mail-in-voting.

      Remain intimately at the heart of experience.

    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 3369

      Our founders never intended for Americans to trust their government.

      Our entire Constitution was predicated on the notion

      that Government was a necessary evil,

      to be restrained and minimized

      as much as possible.

      Remain intimately at the heart of experience.

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      Our founders never intended for Americans to trust their government.

      There’s lots of things the founders never intended, but we have to live in the real world.

      Government was a necessary evil,

      to be restrained and minimized

      as much as possible.

      That’s nothing more than quaint and unrealistic nostalgia at this point. The founders did not and could not foresee the complexities of the modern world.

    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 3369

      Our founders came from England

      where they saw first hand

      the restraints that government power

      could place on people just trying to live their life.

      They were very aware of government power and its downside.

      It was an English man who said

      over 100 years before our founders

      “power corrupts

      and absolute power corrupts absolutely”

      Remain intimately at the heart of experience.

    • Trask Force

      Participant
      Post count: 4629

      Firearm dealers should be able to sell guns

      by mail without seeing the buyer or verifying the signature,

      just like mail-in-voting.

      Island, you are becoming Chron with better spelling. There was no mail-in voter fraud, just people take advantage of the mail-in option because of Covid. But it’s your job to spread falsehoods, because that’s what Trumpers do If . you tell a lie enough times people start to believe it. So either your intentionally spreading a falsehood, or you are one of the suckers who believe it. Either way, its not good.

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 718

      There’s lots of things the founders never intended, but we have to live in the real world.

      Wow. Just wow.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      Firearm dealers should be able to sell guns

      by mail without seeing the buyer or verifying the signature,

      just like mail-in-voting.

      Trying too hard lol

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 5127

      Island, you are becoming Chron with better spelling. There was no mail-in voter fraud, just people take advantage of the mail-in option because of Covid. But it’s your job to spread falsehoods, because that’s what Trumpers do If . you tell a lie enough times people start to believe it. So either your intentionally spreading a falsehood, or you are one of the suckers who believe it. Either way, its not good.

      I think he came up with a pretty fair and thought provoking way of redefining the debate. Why does the left think it’s more important to verify who is legally buying a gun that who is legally voting? There are obvious reasons like the fact people get killed by guns but it’s still an interesting contradiction. On the one hand we are for as much government control as possible to limit a constitutional right but on the other, any limits placed on even something as simple as verifying that you are a legal voter is considered voter suppression.

      I don’t see why you’re all defensive about it.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      Island, you are becoming Chron with better spelling. There was no mail-in voter fraud, just people take advantage of the mail-in option because of Covid. But it’s your job to spread falsehoods, because that’s what Trumpers do If . you tell a lie enough times people start to believe it. So either your intentionally spreading a falsehood, or you are one of the suckers who believe it. Either way, its not good.

      I think he came up with a pretty fair and thought provoking way of redefining the debate. Why does the left think it’s more important to verify who is legally buying a gun that who is legally voting? There are obvious reasons like the fact people get killed by guns but it’s still an interesting contradiction. On the one hand we are for as much government control as possible to limit a constitutional right but on the other, any limits placed on even something as simple as verifying that you are a legal voter is considered voter suppression.

      I don’t see why you’re all defensive about it.

      whose defensive? Its absurd. I mean, your best effort to troll it along is LITERALLY to mock it

      Why does the left think it’s more important to verify who is legally buying a gun that who is legally voting?

      here are obvious reasons like the fact people get killed by guns

      and the entire thing is based on a totally false premise

      I mean, everyone engaging in the topic is losing brain cells by responding :-)

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      this the false premise:

      Why does the left think it’s more important to verify who is legally buying a gun that who is legally voting?

      Oregon is just the easiest example:

      In Oregon, all registered voters are automatically sent a ballot about three weeks before Election Day. This gives people plenty of time to receive their ballots, consider the options and mark and return the ballots.

      In any state, when a voter receives the ballot, they must mark it, making their selections for candidates and their choices on referenda or other ballot questions.

      In Oregon, after marking the ballot, the voter puts it into what’s called a “ballot secrecy envelope,” which contains no identifying information. This prevents election workers or others from knowing which person cast the ballot inside.

      That secrecy envelope goes into a second envelope, which is what is delivered to election officials. Each voter must sign the outside of that second envelope.

      When the ballots arrive at the local election office, the name and signature on the envelope are compared to the official registration records. If the signatures don’t match, the voter is notified by mail, and given the opportunity to correct or explain the discrepancy.

      In other words . . ya’ll dumb AF

      and gun purchasers do NOT have to be verified by ID . . . you freaking idiots. You can buy a gun from a private seller ON A HUGE ONLINE MARKETPLACE

      again, mocking it for its massive stupidity

      that’s why I posted “trying to hard”

      IB might have typed those words after having an aneurysm caused by repeat ramming of a Trump butt plug

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      oops NOT worth the typo correction

      brain cells . . dying

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 718

      In Oregon, after marking the ballot, the voter puts it into what’s called a “ballot secrecy envelope,” which contains no identifying information. This prevents election workers or others from knowing which person cast the ballot inside.

      That secrecy envelope goes into a second envelope, which is what is delivered to election officials. Each voter must sign the outside of that second envelope.

      How is requiring someone to sign the 2nd envelope preventing “election workers or others from know which person cast the ballot inside?” Wouldn’t it be obvious whose ballot was inside the 2nd envelope?

      I’m just trying to understand your “easiest example.”

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      Why does the left think it’s more important to verify who is legally buying a gun that who is legally voting?

      Because there’s no evidence of significant voter fraud and study after study over many years confirms this. Voter fraud is really just a propaganda tool the right uses to convince people that they need to pass voting “integrity” laws that are really just a means of suppressing voting in communities that tend to vote democrat. The left believes in voting integrity just as much as the right, but we also believe that means that everyone has equal access (not just theoretical right to vote). You people just play games with this fake voter fraud nonsense and some are gullible enough to believe Frump’s big lie. It’s criminal.

      Personally I would be fine with voter ID as long as there were no barriers for everyone with the legal right to vote to get their ID easily, with plenty of notice that the ID would be necessary in advance of an election.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      In Oregon, after marking the ballot, the voter puts it into what’s called a “ballot secrecy envelope,” which contains no identifying information. This prevents election workers or others from knowing which person cast the ballot inside.

      That secrecy envelope goes into a second envelope, which is what is delivered to election officials. Each voter must sign the outside of that second envelope.

      How is requiring someone to sign the 2nd envelope preventing “election workers or others from know which person cast the ballot inside?” Wouldn’t it be obvious whose ballot was inside the 2nd envelope?

      I’m just trying to understand your “easiest example.”

      It’s a two step process. Not sure I follow your question though.

      The point I was making is that bite by mail is not unverified (like many gun purchases). The voter has to be REGISTERED. The only thing the mail charges is the physical trip to polling. The vote is still verified in same way thst a polling location vote is verified

      Oregon’s process recognizes a simple truth: more legitimate voting leads to more representative government (the very essence of a republic)

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 718

      It’s a two step process. Not sure I follow your question though.

      Step 1: That secrecy envelope goes into a second envelope, which is what is delivered to election officials.
      Step 2: Each voter must sign the outside of that second envelope.

      If each voter must sign the outside of the 2nd envelope (which contains the “secrecy envelope–which contains no identifying information”) wouldn’t it be obvious whose vote is in the 2nd envelope?

      What is the purpose of the “Secrecy Envelope”?

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      It’s a two step process. Not sure I follow your question though.

      Step 1: That secrecy envelope goes into a second envelope, which is what is delivered to election officials.
      Step 2: Each voter must sign the outside of that second envelope.

      If each voter must sign the outside of the 2nd envelope (which contains the “secrecy envelope–which contains no identifying information”) wouldn’t it be obvious whose vote is in the 2nd envelope?

      What is the purpose of the “Secrecy Envelope”?

      Oh so I think you have it mixed up but I can maybe explain what I know about Oregons process. There are no identifiers on the outside envelope so that, by way of example, no one could take a street or zip code and pull them all. This is also why the state has actual tracking of your vote. The voter can see it processed and tallied but just the voter.

      The vote still requires verification though. Thst the ballot goes with the voter. Same as when you go to a polling station. You’re checked and matched to your registration.
      They happens here , while still keeping it anonymous for delivery, by way of the interior envelope.

      Yes an election person is matching the signatures so if you mean that person could for example destroy the ballot then a) that’s why their is tracking and b) to what end? The ballot is still the ballot, only one per registered voter and it’s tracked.

      Not sure if that missed the point of your question

    • Trask Force

      Participant
      Post count: 4629

      Island, you are becoming Chron with better spelling. There was no mail-in voter fraud, just people take advantage of the mail-in option because of Covid. But it’s your job to spread falsehoods, because that’s what Trumpers do If . you tell a lie enough times people start to believe it. So either your intentionally spreading a falsehood, or you are one of the suckers who believe it. Either way, its not good.

      I think he came up with a pretty fair and thought provoking way of redefining the debate. Why does the left think it’s more important to verify who is legally buying a gun that who is legally voting? There are obvious reasons like the fact people get killed by guns but it’s still an interesting contradiction. On the one hand we are for as much government control as possible to limit a constitutional right but on the other, any limits placed on even something as simple as verifying that you are a legal voter is considered voter suppression.

      I don’t see why you’re all defensive about it.

      Fallacy #1 there was illegal voting. Fallacy #2 people don’t have to prove their identity to vote and Democrats are somehow getting people who aren’t on the roles to vote. Of course they have to register to vote with a valid ID. Nobody who voted by mail was not a registered voter. So stop dealing in falsehoods and innuendos, jbear. Its the innuendos that are the most disgusting. When a person puts out an implication such as Island did, without coming right out and saying it. He’s implying there is a voter fraud problem. But by not directly saying it, he doesn’t have to be held accountable for lying. But I am holding him accountable. That’s a lie.

      You can have your opinions about big government vs. small government or whatever. That’s legitimate. Just stop dealing lies.

    • Runole

      Participant
      Post count: 3170

      There’s lots of things the founders never intended, but we have to live in the real world.

      Wow. Just wow.

      AGREE! SMH!

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 5127

      In other words . . ya’ll dumb AF

      I don’t know why you always insist on dumbing your argument down to the absurd. So they put them in two envelopes so everything is good here and you’re all dumb! LOL

      Just get a grip.

      But let me get this straight. In Oregon, they mail everyone on the roles a ballot? Whether they want it or not. And all they or anyone has to do is mark it and put it in the super secret, elections can’t ever be questioned envelopes and take it to some dump site or hand it to a postal worker for counting. Is that about right?

      How is that supposed to be a safe way to vote? Anyone could get those ballots and several points in the process. In Florida…. where the intelligent people live who actually do care about the integrity of the election they send out requests for mail in ballots. If you want it then you have to fill it out with your information and they will send you a ballot. At least thats how they did it the last time I checked. So, not being morons and understanding that the integrity of the election is actually important, we decided it might not be a great idea to just send out millions of ballots to anyone and everyone. Even if they do verify the ballots that are turned in are from legally registered voters they still leave a ton of room for fraud. These ballots will be laying around all over the place. People could collect them. Home health car workers or marxist relatives could just take them and fill them out for people who don’t intend to vote anyway. Plenty of room for abuse.

    • Runole

      Participant
      Post count: 3170

      Island, you are becoming Chron with better spelling. There was no mail-in voter fraud, just people take advantage of the mail-in option because of Covid. But it’s your job to spread falsehoods, because that’s what Trumpers do If . you tell a lie enough times people start to believe it. So either your intentionally spreading a falsehood, or you are one of the suckers who believe it. Either way, its not good.

      I think he came up with a pretty fair and thought provoking way of redefining the debate. Why does the left think it’s more important to verify who is legally buying a gun that who is legally voting? There are obvious reasons like the fact people get killed by guns but it’s still an interesting contradiction. On the one hand we are for as much government control as possible to limit a constitutional right but on the other, any limits placed on even something as simple as verifying that you are a legal voter is considered voter suppression.

      I don’t see why you’re all defensive about it.

      Fallacy #1 there was illegal voting. Fallacy #2 people don’t have to prove their identity to vote and Democrats are somehow getting people who aren’t on the roles to vote. Of course they have to register to vote with a valid ID. Nobody who voted by mail was not a registered voter. So stop dealing in falsehoods and innuendos, jbear. Its the innuendos that are the most disgusting. When a person puts out an implication such as Island did, without coming right out and saying it. He’s implying there is a voter fraud problem. But by not directly saying it, he doesn’t have to be held accountable for lying. But I am holding him accountable. That’s a lie.

      You can have your opinions about big government vs. small government or whatever. That’s legitimate. Just stop dealing lies.

      Your opinion is truth despite video evidence and real ballot harvesting?

      I received 3 usable ballots one from a state in which I have a vacation home plus 2 others.

      I chose to vote in person and was required to fill out ballot at the polling place. My integrity and honesty would not allow me to vote more than once. You?

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 5127

      Nobody who voted by mail was not a registered voter. So stop dealing in falsehoods and innuendos, jbear. Its the innuendos that are the most disgusting. When a person puts out an implication such as Island did, without coming right out and saying it. He’s implying there is a voter fraud problem. But by not directly saying it, he doesn’t have to be held accountable for lying. But I am holding him accountable. That’s a lie.

      I just posted why you’re wrong. It is not “safe” to just mail millions of ballots to every single registered voter even if they don’t ask for them. Forget the 40 year old marxist grandson, living in grandma’s basement….. what about the inbred Trumper daughter who comes weekly to steal some of mom’s cancer meds. It’s not safe as any sane person could understand.

      The problem is that you guys have decided that any scenario where more people who don’t give a shit vote, you’ll come out ahead, so you try to make it so easy that maybe you’ll snag a few people who really don’t give one flying shit about it. If I go to their house, If I put a pen in their hand…. if I’m really nice to them then maybe we can get one more vote for the good guys. You pretend that it’s benevolence but it’s anything but.

      Just think…. why does North Korea have 99% voter turnout and we have a turnout of about 60%? Seriously guys, it is not because of voter suppression. Just use your brains. People have to make an effort to vote for it to be valid in my view. Even if mailing every registered voter a ballot and making so easy an eight year old could do it still doesn’t make up for the potential for fruad that is downright obvious when employing a scheme as dumb as just mailing every registered voter a ballot.

      I know you guys really believe that it’s completely out of bounds to call into question all of these things that you’re so sure you’re on the right side of but you’re all just regurgitating political spin and the sad thing is you don’t even know it.

      Of course it’s not safe…. maybe progressives have some people who have already “figured it out using fake math” Like well there will be a little more fruad but it’s all within the margin of error and we’ll still get more votes than the bad guys so who cares. lol

      It really is depressing that you guys are so sure of the things you think you know as to be rude to other people who are just bringing up valid points. I don’t want to live in North Korea…. if that makes me a Trumper in your view then you’re the people who are deranged.

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      There’s lots of things the founders never intended, but we have to live in the real world.

      Wow. Just wow.

      So you’re apparently against living in the real world. Consistent with membership in the orangemancult. Hey, 3 = 5!

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 718

      There’s lots of things the founders never intended, but we have to live in the real world.

      Wow. Just wow.

      So you’re apparently against living in the real world. Consistent with membership in the orangemancult. Hey, 3 = 5!

      How do you keep sand out of your eyes with your head buried so deep? Do you wear goggles?

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      How do you keep sand out of your eyes with your head buried so deep? Do you wear goggles?

      God I wish I had thought of that devastating burn.

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1866

      Yes an election person is matching the signatures so if you mean that person could for example destroy the ballot then a) that’s why their is tracking and b) to what end? The ballot is still the ballot, only one per registered voter and it’s tracked.

      If it means anything I believe I follow you. First envelope is used to verify the voter, the second is dumped in an anonymous pile to be opened at a later date to be counted.

      I do agree with Jbear though that it present a big open door for problems to walk in. What’s more the Oregon system could run into issues with the John Lewis voting act as you only need some kind of bill with your name and address on it as proof of identify. I suspect requiring a signature may run into problems with that.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      Yes an election person is matching the signatures so if you mean that person could for example destroy the ballot then a) that’s why their is tracking and b) to what end? The ballot is still the ballot, only one per registered voter and it’s tracked.

      If it means anything I believe I follow you. First envelope is used to verify the voter, the second is dumped in an anonymous pile to be opened at a later date to be counted.

      I do agree with Jbear though that it present a big open door for problems to walk in. What’s more the Oregon system could run into issues with the John Lewis voting act as you only need some kind of bill with your name and address on it as proof of identify. I suspect requiring a signature may run into problems with that.

      A big open door that no one has ever walked in …. In a state that is basically two states in one, red ….. hard core red … and very very blue.

      Weird

      And no on envelopes but you can read about it if you want.

      It’s not coincidence that all you Trumpers think everything in INDIVIDUAL voting is susceptible to fraud. It’s just like the border being a scheme by democrats or Biden being a “socialist” or anyone of the other things pounded in the cocoon

      In 2020 there was roughy 90% turnout and a margin of roughly 400,000 votes. That’s a lot of “secrecy envelopes” lol

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      There’s almost zero voter fraud here.

      Vote my mail is a huge success.

      You can talk in hypotheticals all you want but our process works very well.

      Would it have more voter fraud if our population was bigger? Hard to say… I’d wager California or Texas deals with slightly more of all that but the number is probably inconsequential.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      There no reason that delivery of a ballot by mail would cause more fraud.

      The process is still the same. You have to be registered and you have to have the signature.

      More importantly though, election altering voter fraud would not be ONE voter at a time. LOL. Trump’s claims were CONSPIRACIES about machines and groups FOR A REASON

      In Florida .. in the VILLAGES of all places . . . 6 Trumpers could not get away with double voting.

      Close elections involve recounts and audits and both sides present, with lawyers to challenge votes

      Biden won by 8 million votes? 70+ electoral college votes?

      Bush won by ONE state in dispute, a few thousand votes in that states. It went through the legal process and Gore conceded and even announced the EC votes in Congress

      Come on Trumper people, snap out of it

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      It’s just classic fascism. Republicans have been committing passive and direct voter fraud for decade. Gerrymandering (look at Gym Jordan’s district), disenfranchisement, etc.

      Bush stole the election in 2000 via the hanging chad.

      Trump tried to get Georgia to “find votes”.

      The hardest tactic to beat, and what makes fascism so effective, is constantly gaslighting by saying your opponent is doing the very thing you are doing.

      It was at the core of Hitler’s rise to power. Blame the media and minorities. Claim widespread voter fraud. Blur fact from fiction.

      This is why Trump is a fascist (lite). And had he won, and his little coup worked, it would be full fledged fascism.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      Go look at what Arizona is trying to pass allowing legislature to overturn election because Biden ONE FREAKING TIME won Arizona.

      I know that some here will do mental gymnastics to support it… and that’s fine.

      But if we keep this up, we will have election like Russia in no time.

      Republicans are willing to throw it all away to hold on to what little bit or public support they have remaining…

      It’s so infuriating but nothing can be done… I live in a state that does it perfectly and I’m proud to say that

    • Charles

      Participant
      Post count: 720

      Trumpers are stupid old uneducated trailer trash….rural garbage

      Nature will take care of this stupid gene over the next ten years.

      Old dead boomers. Coming soon!

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 5127

      Bush stole the election in 2000 via the hanging chad.

      I knew you’d say something like that. Sheesh, you do realize that when Trump people say it, they are a threat to the democracy right?

      At least give up the “Bush Stole the 2000 election” nonsense as it makes you sound like a complete hypocrite. Plus it happened over 20 years ago….. for your own good… isn’t it about time you concede the 2000 election?

      And I really am trying to help you out here. I think there is still hope. It’s 20 plus years after the fact and you STILL insist on making sure everyone knows that you think W was an illegitimate President.

      That’s not a problem for you it’s a problem for society. It’s part of the division that yes you are just as responsible for as the Trumpers are. Democracy in peril rings a bit hollow coming from people who still say shit like this.

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 5127

      There no reason that delivery of a ballot by mail would cause more fraud.

      The process is still the same. You have to be registered and you have to have the signature.

      More importantly though, election altering voter fraud would not be ONE voter at a time. LOL. Trump’s claims were CONSPIRACIES about machines and groups FOR A REASON

      In Florida .. in the VILLAGES of all places . . . 6 Trumpers could not get away with double voting.

      Close elections involve recounts and audits and both sides present, with lawyers to challenge votes

      Biden won by 8 million votes? 70+ electoral college votes?

      Bush won by ONE state in dispute, a few thousand votes in that states. It went through the legal process and Gore conceded and even announced the EC votes in Congress

      You’d have to be awfully optimistic to believe that incapacitated people are not having their votes cast for them by someone when you just mail a ballot to every single registered voter. I’m not saying it’s in large numbers and I’m not defending all those Trump allegations which are nonsense. All I’m saying is that mailing a ballot to every registered voter is not as secure as mailing them only to those who request a ballot. No way. It’s just logically obvious. You can say all day that it never happened but you also know that it’s nonsense. It would be exceptionally difficult to prove that a living registered voter who is now incapacitated or not of sound mind didn’t actually vote the way their ballot says they did.

      So the arguments from people on the left that it’s all made up is just not true. The integrity of the vote is either important or it isn’t. Don’t say it’s about suppression. That is just disingenuous at best.

      Clearly people are concerned about making sure that all votes are valid. You can’t say that for example, when it comes to guns you think we should make the process as secure as possible and on the other hand actively work towards making elections less secure without making it painfully obvious that you don’t care about the security of the election.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      Cmon man. Bush lost the popular vote and won via Florida with what in hindsight was clearly voter fraud.

      Gore decided to let the country move forward…

      Trump lost the popular vote by the biggest margin ever, and lost the electoral college by a landslide.

      The two aren’t comparable.

      Florida decided the election. One state. One county. Handful of votes.

      Trump lost in a landslide. A bigger landslide than Hillary lost by…

      How can you in good faith really compare the two?

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 5127

      Cmon man. Bush lost the popular vote and won via Florida with what in hindsight was clearly voter fraud.

      Gore decided to let the country move forward…

      Trump lost the popular vote by the biggest margin ever, and lost the electoral college by a landslide.

      The two aren’t comparable.

      Florida decided the election. One state. One county. Handful of votes.

      Trump lost in a landslide. A bigger landslide than Hillary lost by…

      How can you in good faith really compare the two?

      Come on you…. We don’t determine who’s President by the popular vote so it scares the shit out of me that progressives bring this popular vote nonsense up in every discussion.

      And then this, I live in Florida and did in 2000 as well. It pains me that you believe what you’re saying. The votes were counted fairly and then Gore attorney’s decided to pursue recounts in heavily Democratic districts which they did and he still lost but then they started counting the ballots that weren’t counted because of irregularities. It became a spectacle but worse still we had the same type of voting in other area’s that leaned Republican but we weren’t counting those. It became clear to everyone including the supreme court that just counting irregular votes in democrat only districts wasn’t going to be a fair process. Worse still if Gore had turned the election on these hanging chad votes, it would not have appeared fair to Bush Supporters. And they would have had an even better case for a stolen election than Gore did.

      Keep in mind, Florida had a terrible and antiquated voting system at that time. They didn’t have all the checks we have now.

      Just stop being such a partisan about stuff that you should be objective about. Gore lost. Trump lost. Move on.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      Come on you…. We don’t determine who’s President by the popular vote so it scares the shit out of me that progressives bring this popular vote nonsense up in every discussion

      Trump lost by more than 70 Electoral College votes

      Gore lost by 5? That means he was AHEAD, right? Gore was actually the DECLARED WINNER BY EVERTY NETWORK

      Trump tried to have a guy at Foix fired because he correctly called Arizona

      THE POINT: its your guy TRUMP who took the system off the rails and it wasn’t even as close as Bush AND its your guy Trump who decided NOT to go to a Court that he largely created, the US Supreme Court and spread the LIE instead


      YOU GUYS ARE TO BLAME FOR THE SHITTY STATE OF AFFAIRS NOW

      all the more so because you all still deny it even happened lol

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      Gore lost. Trump lost. Move on.



      @JBear
      thank for this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      Gore lost . . and MOVED ON. He took it to the Supreme Court in a much closer contest and conceded when the Court ruled against him

      Your guy TRUMP . . . in a blowout of sorts, didn’t even take his claims to his own Supreme Court — BECAUSE HE KNEW HE LOST so his best alternative was to LIE

      YOU GUYS — Trumpers — STILL SUPPORT THAT LIE, so its YOU GUYS who have not moved on. We are just the ones pointing it out

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      The votes were not counted fairly.

      They threw out votes because of bullshit.

      The woman in charge of the audit, forgot her name, was tied to Bush and served in his administration.

      It is so damn well documented that it was absolutely stolen from Gore.

      You’re right the popular vote doesn’t count, but it does MATTER.

      It when you look at 25 years of elections where more people vote for Democrats over and over, but the electoral college gives a dying party hope year over year, it does add context.

      People feel indirectly disenfranchised because the system clearly favors one side. That electoral vote representation per population capita is clearly skewed to one side.

      Then you have 2000 election that was AT BEST a bitter pill to swallow. At worst, an example of voter disenfranchisement via bullshit tactics.

      And since then it’s time after time of bullshit… from gerrymandering to just making it hard to vote which is embraced by the right.

      Up and down, one side wants to make it easier to vote. While the other side wants to claim that making it easier to vote is, without ANY EVIDENCE, creates election fraud.

      It’s bullshit…

      One side is just fucking cheating and then they have the absolute audacity to point the finger at the Dems.

      2020 was the pinnacle of this bullshit tactic and many of you are already trying to rewrite history that day and that election cycle

      It’s just pure fascism. The side that has been disenfranchising voters for decades now is claiming fraud in the general election.

      That is saying vote by mail is ripe with fraud when it isn’t…

      And now Arizona is already setting the stage to disenfranchise.

      And you know what… it should piss you off but we are so concerned with bothsideism that all the water is muddied.

      We are gonna be God damn Russia in a few election cycles if we keep this up… all because the Republican party won’t move just slightly toward the center and embrace more diverse voting block.

      Rant/

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 7531

      Gore decided to let the country move forward…

      You mean after challenging the results of the election, yes?

      Just stop being such a partisan about stuff that you should be objective about. Gore lost. Trump lost. Move on.

      I really don’t think they believe they are being partisan. They genuinely believe this stuff is different and make any and all rationalizations to justify that belief.

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 7531

      The votes were not counted fairly.

      They threw out votes because of bullshit.

      The woman in charge of the audit, forgot her name, was tied to <insert opposing candidate> and served in his administration.

      It is so damn well documented that it was absolutely stolen from <insert favored candidate>.

      Boy, this sounds eerily familiar…

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 718

      Gore was actually the DECLARED WINNER BY EVERTY NETWORK

      Oh, well, if the networks declared the winner then the election must have been stolen. I mean, the networks are never wrong. Good grief!

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      I really don’t think they believe they are being partisan. They genuinely believe this stuff is different and make any and all rationalizations to justify that belief.

      Must be hypocrisy again, right?

      Gore lost Florida by 500 votes, and Florida was the difference in the electoral college. The recounts they asked for were legitimately questioned, and Gore wasn’t out there spewing a bunch of crap about “stolen election” or “total fraud” or corrupt republicans. He allowed the process of recount to go on, and then when the Supreme Court shut it down (still a questionable decision), he conceded even though he legitimately could’ve called for continued legal challenges, certainly more warranted than the orangefuck’s claims.

      How many recounts were conducted around the country for Frump? And those states were much wider margins than Florida 2000… Frump lost all those recounts, over 60 legal challenges, refused to concede, and over a year later is still refusing to show an ounce of concern for the division he has created — he’s still spouting stolen election nonsense.

      Another case where you’re too blind, dishonest, or plain ignorant to admit that it actually isn’t equal… Jeezus Fuckin; Kreiste!

      But, hypocrisy… 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

      Ok, “slugger”….

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      Gore was actually the DECLARED WINNER BY EVERTY NETWORK

      Oh, well, if the networks declared the winner then the election must have been stolen. I mean, the networks are never wrong. Good grief!

      They were wrong. But so are you based on you post

      The “paint by numbers” version is that GORE was much more in a posture for the fight because the race was MUCH tighter and he was the PRESUMPTIVE winner.

      No one ever called the race for Trump and he lost by millions of votes and 70 + EC votes

      BY TRUMPS OWN DEFINITION… he lost in a “bigly” landslide lol

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      Look the one fact that should have you Trumpers reeling even if you never admit here … is that Trump didn’t even take his bogus claim to a Supreme Court they crowed about making

      That fact means he KNEW he would lose. He then decided the Big Lie was better. And all of you Trumpers are either accessories lol to that lunacy or just tiny little fragile creatures who can admit that the sun rises in the East

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 7531

      Must be hypocrisy again, right?

      Indubitably. You people can’t help but fall in that hole, apparently.

      Another case where you’re too blind, dishonest, or plain ignorant to admit that it actually isn’t equal… Jeezus Fuckin; Kreiste!

      It’s true. The other side is bad and your side is good.

      Unfortunately, the masses agree with you.

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 8456

        Yeah if only they were the same then you’d have made a great point here.

        But they aren’t the same… because Gore conceded and Trump still over a year later has a brand and cultural revolution behind him.

        And Gore should have fought harder but realized it wasn’t best for the country.

        And Trump just lost by like… a lot.

        500 votes vs millions of votes.

        1 county vs 5 states

        Facts vs fiction

        Then of course you have Jan 6th

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      Must be hypocrisy again, right?

      Indubitably. You people can’t help but fall in that hole, apparently.

      Another case where you’re too blind, dishonest, or plain ignorant to admit that it actually isn’t equal… Jeezus Fuckin; Kreiste!

      It’s true. The other side is bad and your side is good.

      Unfortunately, the masses agree with you.

      Once again, unable to address basic facts, fall back on false equivalence. Lazy.

      Good job, Sport!

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      Must be hypocrisy again, right?

      Indubitably. You people can’t help but fall in that hole, apparently.

      Another case where you’re too blind, dishonest, or plain ignorant to admit that it actually isn’t equal… Jeezus Fuckin; Kreiste!

      It’s true. The other side is bad and your side is good.

      Unfortunately, the masses agree with you.

      I mean, nothing surprises in the Cove but being a Trumper and not seeing the VERY BAD FOR YOU Gore comparison . . while calling other hypocrites . .

      That’s why I’ve previously likened some of this to debating whether the sky is falling with a naked guy standing out in traffic barking at the sun.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      But what else is a Trumper to say about all that Trump has done with the 2020 election when they previously downplayed it or pushed some BS conspiracy?

      Just like what is a Trumper to say who said the virus is “like the flu” back in March of 2020

      The actual passage of time crushes Trumpers

      Trumpers just dig in . . . while telling others they are “indoctrinated”

      LOL

      La La Land

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 5127

      Trump lost by more than 70 Electoral College votes

      Gore lost by 5? That means he was AHEAD, right? Gore was actually the DECLARED WINNER BY EVERTY NETWORK

      Trump tried to have a guy at Foix fired because he correctly called Arizona

      THE POINT: its your guy TRUMP who took the system off the rails and it wasn’t even as close as Bush AND its your guy Trump who decided NOT to go to a Court that he largely created, the US Supreme Court and spread the LIE instead

      YOU GUYS ARE TO BLAME FOR THE SHITTY STATE OF AFFAIRS NOW

      all the more so because you all still deny it even happened lol

      LOL

      Jesus Christ I am not defending Trump I am just pointing out that you guys should really move on from the 2000 election if you want to keep pounding away at the orange man for “incorrectly” saying the election was stolen from him.

      Not-my-side-ism. Is a thing thank you Justin Amash.

      You and Fire are also a big part of the problem. In every conversation be it the supreme court or elections or BBB not getting passed, the only reason everything isn’t rainbows and sunshine is because of the evil Republiturds. If you can’t figure out that others are allowed to have an opinion that differs from your own and that you are also living in an echo chamber of your own making because you only hear what you want to hear then I can’t help you much. Don’t say I haven’t been trying because I have.

      You say it’s the Trumpers but steadfastly refuse to look in the mirror. One side is not benevolent while the other is pure evil…. that is just not how it works.

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 8456

        Of course it isn’t good and evil

        Nobody thinks like that type of binary besides runole

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 5127

      Must be hypocrisy again, right?

      Gore lost Florida by 500 votes, and Florida was the difference in the electoral college. The recounts they asked for were legitimately questioned, and Gore wasn’t out there spewing a bunch of crap about “stolen election” or “total fraud” or corrupt republicans. He allowed the process of recount to go on, and then when the Supreme Court shut it down (still a questionable decision), he conceded even though he legitimately could’ve called for continued legal challenges, certainly more warranted than the orangefuck’s claims.

      How many recounts were conducted around the country for Frump? And those states were much wider margins than Florida 2000… Frump lost all those recounts, over 60 legal challenges, refused to concede, and over a year later is still refusing to show an ounce of concern for the division he has created — he’s still spouting stolen election nonsense.

      Another case where you’re too blind, dishonest, or plain ignorant to admit that it actually isn’t equal… Jeezus Fuckin; Kreiste!

      But, hypocrisy… 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

      Ok, “slugger”….

      It’s fugging lunacy that you clowns can’t remove your heads from your rear ends. All three of you are Trumpers in reverse. You each probably still own a tee shirt or wall poster with a picture of W and the phrase “Not my President”

      Of course you do. Jesus. We are fucking doomed. lol Seriously, apparently I am the only sane person in the world standing between Trumpers and progressives who both think the other side is made up of some version of demons who drink the blood of babies so they never die.

      You guys are out of your minds.

    • Blayton Cigsby

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      Post count: 3009

      standing between Trumpers and progressives

      LOL

      yeah . . right

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      I mean, nothing surprises in the Cove but being a Trumper and not seeing the VERY BAD FOR YOU Gore comparison . . while calling other hypocrites . .

      Yeah, I’m still convinced the guy doesn’t know the definition of hypocrisy or understand false equivalence.

      To add more fuel, in an ironic twist, Benjamin Ginsberg, the long-time GOP elections and campaign attorney, who represented the Bush side in Bush V. Gore has been an outspoken critic of the Frump stolen election LIE and basically says voter fraud isn’t a real thing. This is a republican loyalist and an election integrity expert, widely respected. Is he a hypocrite because he says these things aren’t equal? But wait, he’s a republican… Huh? You mean he might be telling a non-partisan truth? Whaaaa? What’s that? So, my point that that Bush v. Gore and Frump v. Reality aren’t at all comparable might be supported by someone on the other political side? This is incomprehensible in MAGAfakereality.

      Ginsberg speaks the truth, he must be a RINO.

      And I make an argument with superior evidence, but I’m the “H” word. It’s fucking hilarious how idiotic these people are.

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 5127

      And since then it’s time after time of bullshit… from gerrymandering to just making it hard to vote which is embraced by the right.

      I have to wonder if you even realize that some of the most gerrymandered districts in the world are democrat controlled districts. I”m talking the ones that snake hundreds of miles, zigzagging like a lightning bolt, until it’s zapped every conceivable person of color.

      Yes it’s fucking hypocrisy. Good grief you guys are bonkers. Even the whole voter suppression line is pure political spin and you guys gobble it up like it’s a plate of beluga caviar.

      Guys, you are not going to be allowed to just eradicate all the people who disagree with you. This isn’t going to end well I’m afraid. While I agree with you that it would be nice if the most radical right wingers would change their minds and join civilized society, I don’t think that you can expect that to happen when there is an equally radical left wing version stoking the flames.

      People used to be able to compromise. People could agree to disagree but that’s not possible with you lunatics because you cannot accept the opposing view. You steadfastly refuse to acknowledge that it may be legitimate to for example, feel that concerns about the security of the vote even be addressed.

      Until you guys figure out how to pull your heads out of your asses, nothing is going to get any better.

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 8456

        Water is wet.

        You say it isn’t…

        Agree to disagree

        Water is wet = Biden won the election fair and square with no voter fraud

        Water is wet = Trump tried to subvert election results via an attempted intimidation on election day and almost succeeded.

        We can agree to disagree if you like… but Water is still wet

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      Again, more people vote Democrat. It isn’t close.

      From a Senate seat standpoint you have North Dakota with as much voting power as California. But that’s the nature or a Republic so, it is what it is.

      But when it comes to House representatives the amount of seats you get vs population is wildly imbalanced.

      So the system itself favors red states.

      Jbear – Go ahead and give your examples of gerrymandering done by leftist districts.

      I can give you one of the most obvious ones – Jim Jordan.

      The system doesn’t REPRESENT popular opinion.

      If you abolished the electoral college, the republican party would die. It literally exists through a tilted system.

      It won’t change but it’s context to consider when you’re bitching that Trump should have won or that there was fraud of some kind (I’m assuming that’s what you think happened or else wtf are we even talking about here?)

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      Gerrymandering is a big reason why the House is so fucked.

      Yes both parties

      Look at TN where a hugely popular Dem leader from Nashville is just retiring because the GOP cut his power are into three parts NOTABLY DIMINISHING THE POWER OF THE BLACK VOTE

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      You steadfastly refuse to acknowledge that it may be legitimate to for example, feel that concerns about the security of the vote even be addressed.

      Key word there is “feel”… They may feel there was voter fraud, stolen election, blah blah blah… but there is no evidence, and the truth needs to be defended. When every court agrees that the voter fraud claims are BS and Secretaries of State around the country agreed there was no stolen election, the only thing left is nonsense. And it’s dangerous nonsense. The reason these people “feel” concerned about election security is they put their faith in a corrupt lying lunatic and listen to media sources willing to reinforce the gigantic lie. This is anti-democratic propaganda. So, I’ll steadfastly refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of points of view that are total bullshit. Provide evidence and then there’s something to discuss.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      The opposite of good is not evil…

      It is apathy

    • Trask Force

      Participant
      Post count: 4629

      The disservice of attitudes like JBear’s is being done to the thousands of people who ARE being vigilant about how elections are conducted. From the people who man the voting sites on up to the election supervisors who are being threatened and on to the election companies like Dominion who’s job it is to develop election software that is foolproof. That is what they are getting paid a lot of money to do. We have a great system, and it’s being baselessly tarnished because of one power hungry man.

      Yes we do need to be concerned about the security of our elections and there are thousands of people who dedicate their lives to that very task because they are Americans and they believe in our democracy. These are the people who keep our election system running. They deserve our thanks, not our wrath. This election apparatus, if you start tearing it down, making election supervisors quit, replacing them with politically motivated people, questioning the voting machines, everything. They are attacking every aspect of the voting system, even the judges. This isn’t because anybody did anything wrong. Its because they want to tear it down and replace it. With what? Well I don’t know.

      Maybe one of our Trumpers can give us more insight on that. What are they planning to replace our democracy with? You’ guys have said the constitution isn’t working. The elections are a fraud. The Democrats are running amok. What is the Trump solution to the democracy problem?

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      Trump lost by more than 70 Electoral College votes

      Gore lost by 5? That means he was AHEAD, right? Gore was actually the DECLARED WINNER BY EVERTY NETWORK

      Trump tried to have a guy at Foix fired because he correctly called Arizona

      THE POINT: its your guy TRUMP who took the system off the rails and it wasn’t even as close as Bush AND its your guy Trump who decided NOT to go to a Court that he largely created, the US Supreme Court and spread the LIE instead

      YOU GUYS ARE TO BLAME FOR THE SHITTY STATE OF AFFAIRS NOW

      all the more so because you all still deny it even happened lol

      LOL

      Jesus Christ I am not defending Trump I am just pointing out that you guys should really move on from the 2000 election if you want to keep pounding away at the orange man for “incorrectly” saying the election was stolen from him.

      Not-my-side-ism. Is a thing thank you Justin Amash.

      You and Fire are also a big part of the problem. In every conversation be it the supreme court or elections or BBB not getting passed, the only reason everything isn’t rainbows and sunshine is because of the evil Republiturds. If you can’t figure out that others are allowed to have an opinion that differs from your own and that you are also living in an echo chamber of your own making because you only hear what you want to hear then I can’t help you much. Don’t say I haven’t been trying because I have.

      You say it’s the Trumpers but steadfastly refuse to look in the mirror. One side is not benevolent while the other is pure evil…. that is just not how it works.

      JBear – “move in from 2020”

      Also JBear “voter suppression is just a political term”

      Lol

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      Election integrity is only a concern to Republicans when they lose.

      When it came up in 2016 with Russia spreading disinformation via social media to get Trump elected all I heard was

      “Cry more libtard”

      Then in 2018 midterms all of the sudden they see Dems winning when they thought they had a populist president with a bull market would hold the the congressional majority…

      Once they saw that the writing was on the wall for 2020 so NATURALLY they started calling it rigged before it was even close to happening.

      On and on and on and on…

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      they started calling it rigged before it was even close to happening.

      Yes! I mean, 6 months before, Frump was calling it a rigged election. And people didn’t understand he was just setting a pretext to be planted in the numbskulls that would have them believe all the stolen election lie horseshit they would plan to unleash if the vote didn’t go their way. I saw the strategy as soon as Frump started making the outlandish claims back in May 2020, if not earlier. It was painful to see it unfold, knowing his cult of gullible boobs would believe it. Unfortunately, January 6th was predictable.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      Facts are a bit one-sided on this one.

      Opinions are of course rooted in bias…

      That doesn’t mean the Dems are saints, that they haven’t done some of the same thing in the past. They are not without sin.

      But recently is pretty one-sided

    • Donkey_Hunter

      Participant
      Post count: 3146

      Seriously, apparently I am the only sane person in the world standing between Trumpers and progressives

      *cough cough*

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      Seriously, apparently I am the only sane person in the world standing between Trumpers and progressives

      *cough cough*

      Lol

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      At least Java has a sense of humor

      And likes Billy Corgan

      Some small ray of hope …

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 5127

      Yes! I mean, 6 months before, Frump was calling it a rigged election. And people didn’t understand he was just setting a pretext to be planted in the numbskulls that would have them believe all the stolen election lie horseshit they would plan to unleash if the vote didn’t go their way. I saw the strategy as soon as Frump started making the outlandish claims back in May 2020, if not earlier. It was painful to see it unfold, knowing his cult of gullible boobs would believe it. Unfortunately, January 6th was predictable.

      Joe Biden and Kamala Harris both said….LAST WEEK, that if they don’t get the voting rights bill passed the election may be illegitimate. They started saying the exact same thing Trump said.

      And that bill is a bad bill. Voting day a national holiday? I suppose the fact that it’s not a holiday is racist. Right? be honest.

      And any bill that wants to stick it to certain states with a “History” of voting rights abuses in 2022 is freaking offensive. The lengths being gone to to be sure Democrats win every election from now till the end of time is horrific. We have voting laws and courts and the crap that Democrats reach for and call “voter suppression” is laughable. Get a photo ID for christs sake.

      People are free to vote in the whole country. If Dems would take out some of the ridiculous stuff…. but even then why the hell does the Fed want to take away rights that are granted to the states? And dont’ give me that racism bs. You guys are free to go to court and do if you feel something actually is racist.

      You guys are fond of claiming that nobody is cheating and so mailing every registered voter a ballot that anyone can turn is just wonderful. Well, show me the person who actually wasn’t allowed to vote. They don’t exist! There may be someone who was turned away at the polls but that is not the same thing. If they are legal voters, no matter what color their skin is or even if they’re their own gender, they can vote if they register and show up or fill out and turn in a ballot.

      JUST STOP.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      Saying it is illegitimate is too far… I didn’t see that quote so please share it.

      But you’re not seeing the forest for the trees.

      If you think Republicans aren’t setting the stage to suppress votes in states that they thought they’d win, then you’re not seeing the big picture.

      I do not for the life of me understand your attitude toward voting. Why would we make voting so difficult when we can literally do almost anything now virtually?

      This attitude that you need to walk up hill both ways for 20 miles in the snow… I just don’t get it?

      It’s a right, not a privilege. It should be easy. Why make it hard?

      I mean… we know why they make it hard… the party that has 8 million less votes across the nation wants less turnout to win… I hope you can admit that too

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      Voting day a national holiday? I suppose the fact that it’s not a holiday is racist. Right? be honest.

      You’re actually a moron or just trolling LOL

      I agree that “illegitimate” was bad, but a few things to remember:

      1) all the lockdowns on voting are GOP driven and come AFTER a massive turnout election that you guys lost — NO EVIFDEMNCE OF FRAUD. Luckily, we have 63 lawsuits and multiple audits to confirm that.

      So, lets not for get that you and the your GOP are LITERALLY the anti-democratic bad guys here

      LITERALLY no other explanation for your own bills. In Pennsylvania, the GOP is SUING to end no excuse absentee ballots that THE GOP CRETED IN 2019. Literally suing to stop their own legislation . . . BECAUSE THEY LOST

      Voting day a national holiday? I suppose the fact that it’s not a holiday is racist. Right? be honest.

      2) MORE LEGITIMATE VOTES IS GOOD

      again, the more turnout the better. Basic LOGIC for a representative democracy. Make MLK day the voting day then? Make the vote happen on a Sunday? The Election Day in the US is SET BY FEDERAL STATUTE. IT could be a Sunday, but its a TUESDAY. In other words, you cannot possibly have a PRODUCTIVITY issue, so what else can it be than that you know more people will vote and thats bad for your side (even if good for the republic)

      3) AND THIS IN REAL INTELLECTUAL SURRENDER

      Well, show me the person who actually wasn’t allowed to vote. They don’t exist! There may be someone who was turned away at the polls but that is not the same thing. If they are legal voters, no matter what color their skin is or even if they’re their own gender, they can vote if they register and show up or fill out and turn in a ballot.



      @JBear
      — Oregon ROUTINELY outperforms many states in turnout because ot mails ballots. Oregaon voters turnout at almost 90%, Texas voters (most restrictive state) turnout at roughly 60% . The 2016 Preidwential election has 130 million votes, 2020 has about 160 million.

      COME ON

      Your white ass is just worried that there are enough voters like you, so you want to keep all those other people form voting.

      TWO FAMILY MEMBER SERVED OUR COUNTRY FOR DECADES, including in a war. Neither could vote in the last three elections without absentee voting, in part because of being snowbird (this is why many northern a states have easy absentee ballots, your Trumper friend in the Villages KNOWE that lol) and because of HEALTH

      Youre saying they shouldn’t be able to vote?

      They’re as WHITE as your ass and literally served for decades

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      @JBear not sure if you even know this but TUESDAY voting is a vestige of the past, when farmers had to travel long ways and nothing was electronic

      and there are already states where election day is a HOLIDAY

      its a federal election though, so . .

      LOOK of all the things to seize on the national holiday one really calls into question your motives because what is the argument against having it on a weekend or making it a holiday?

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      More votes = favor Dems
      Less votes = favor GOP

      It really is just that simple

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      The lengths being gone to to be sure Democrats win every election from now till the end of time is horrific.

      You mean like making it easier for people to vote? Yeah, more democracy is bad… If republicans can’t get elected when everyone has equal access to voting it’s because their policies suck.

      And don’t even start with voter fraud increasing if barriers to voting are removed. It’s total BS. Voter fraud isn’t a thing, and no, China isn’t shipping over fake ballots, and dead people aren’t voting.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      And any bill that wants to stick it to certain states with a “History” of voting rights abuses in 2022 is freaking offensive.

      and this ^^^^^^^^^^^one is really bad, like so bad it must be trolling because not only are you on the wrong side of REALITY, its actually been discussed right here AT LENGTH and

      MOST of your GOP buddies were FOR reinstating the VRA (aka the John Lewis Act) before the 2020 election.

      I mean, if you want and example of racist and political FEAR, how does anyone explain all the GOP votes for the John Lewis Act before 2020 that are not votes AGAINT the John Lewis ACT

      AS IVE POSTED HERE MANY TIMES . . . literally within days of the SCOTUS striking down pre-clearance in the VRA (what you are talking about), North Carolinas REPUBLICAL legislature set about actually CARVING OUT BLACK VOTES

      Thats not an opinion, its a MATTER of FACT and LAW, enshrined forever in a federal court case that I have posted here many time. The North Carolina legislature used data about BLACK VOTING RIGHTS – as soon as it was released from pre-clearance — to change voting law to exclude id forms and voting methods most used by BLACK all claimng . . JUST AS YOU ARE NOW . . that it was needed to “combat fraud:

      “”That fight began in 2013, when the state made cuts to early voting, created a photo ID requirement and eliminated same-day registration, out-of-precinct voting and preregistration of high school students.

      “More than half of all voters there use early voting, and African-Americans do so at higher rates than whites. African-Americans also tend to overwhelmingly vote for Democrats.”

      In its ruling, the appeals court said the law was intentionally designed to discriminate against black people. North Carolina legislators had requested data on voting patterns by race and, with that data in hand, drafted a law that would “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision,” the court said.[/i]



      @JBear
      .. LET ME REPEAT THAT FOR YOU:

      North Carolina legislators had requested data on voting patterns by race and, with that data in hand, drafted a law that would “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision,” the court said.”

      SO . . your claim is complete bullshit.

      you are the one who is OFFENSIVE for suggesting that your white GOP Congress buddies are NOT racist AF because theor actions PROVE IT

      Its cases like the North Carolina one that had all your GOP buddies voting FOR th John Lewis Act . . before 2020

      SO CRY ALL YOU WANT

      BUT YOU SUPPORT A PARTY THAT USES RACIST VOTER SUPRESSION since the days of the CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT

      THAT IS AN ABSOLUTE FACT

      NOT OPINION


      (Thanks for giving me another opportunity to remind you and all your Trumpers of that fact)

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      Joe Biden and Kamala Harris both said….LAST WEEK, that if they don’t get the voting rights bill passed the election may be illegitimate.

      First, I don’t agree with them calling it illegitimate if the election is conducted lawfully and no obvious suppression us occurring.

      Second, I believe Biden took back the use of the term “illegitimate” and apologized. I have no idea what Harris said, and I don’t put a lot of stock in what comes out of her mouth.

      Third, the intention of the legislation is to make voting easier and removing obstacles for certain communities. Why is it that, in nearly every election, polling stations in black neighborhoods have ridiculously long waits, like 8 hours in some cases, but in white and wealthy neighborhoods, voters breeze through.

      If we believe in democracy, there’s no reason not to have nationwide mail-in voting or ballot drop offs located conveniently to any neighborhood.

      If republicans can’t win when it’s easier to vote, it’s because their policies are not popular.

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      You guys are free to go to court and do if you feel something actually is racist.

      Hilarious, because people like you would refuse to believe there was any racism at play.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      More votes = favor Dems
      Less votes = favor GOP

      It really is just that simple

      it is and we have concrete proof that the GOP believes that too

      1. Trump said as much

      2. Pennsylvania GOP suing to take a way absentee voting IT CREATED before the 2020 election

      3. Numerous GOP led laws to shut down and suppress voting on the basis of fraud that THEY PROVED (with 63 lawsuits and audits) NEVER EXISTED

      4. MANY GOP for the John Lewis Act before 2020, AGAINST IT NOW

      5. ZERO complaints about the outcomes of Congressional and state election ON THE EXACT SAME BALLOTS

      The truth is they elected a shitbird racist and he did such a terrible job AND showed his true colors on RACE, so 81 million showed up to kick his ass out of office IN AN ELCTION WHER ETHEY ALSO BROKE TURNOUT RECORDS

      He knows he lost so he LIES about fraud . . and not one TRUMPER here . . INCLUDING JBear (dont forget that)
      – – – acknowledges that the Big Lie is a lie or that there was a real attempt to overturn the vote.

      Most of them would re-elect him today, if they could . . . which brings us back to VOTER SUPRESSION TO HELP THEM

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      @JBear, by your prior posts here, you have more than an average understanding of history, so the post that starts this conversation is hopefully trolling because the alternative would be you pulling back the curtain on yourself as a Runole-esque Trumper

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      I suppose the fact that it’s not a holiday is racist. Right? be honest.

      Well, the fact that it’s a lot more difficult for people in lower wage jobs to get out of work to vote; people with less money, less flexibility, or issues with transportation may not be able to make it to the polls. Those people on the lower end of the economic scale thus have greater obstacles to voting, and these people tend to be black or other POC. The net effect is certainly racist. A national holiday for voting might help remedy some of that. It’s kinda ridiculous that it’s not a holiday. It’s also ridiculous when states try to reduce early voting, cut back the hours of polling stations, or put restrictions on mail-in voting. Anything that isn’t making it easier to vote is voter suppression.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      Looks guys…if it’s easy for jbear to vote, then its easy for everyone to vote.

      I mean, that’s just basic math…

      As an Oregonian, I am extremely spoiled on voting. It comes in the mail, I fill it out, and I put it in a ballot drop off location that is always super close. Less than 5 miles.

      The rural conservatives here in Oregon love it. The suburban liberals love it… everyone loves it. There is literally zero fraud. None. Nada. Zip… zilch.

      It is such a no-brainer to move to national vote by mail but that would mean that Conservatives would have to appeal to not white men in some capacity.

      Crazy I know…

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      As an Oregonian, I am extremely spoiled on voting. It comes in the mail, I fill it out, and I put it in a ballot drop off location that is always super close. Less than 5 miles.

      WA resident here. Same. I’ve probably got 2 or 3 drop boxes within a 5 mile radius from my home.

      The other great thing, not often mentioned, is mail-in voting allows you to take your time filling out the ballot, doing your research while filling it out… People are far more likely to complete a ballot better informed with mail-in, from what I’ve observed.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      that Conservatives would have to appeal to not white men in some capacity.

      and that is the issue

      CULTURAL white conservatives and “aggrieved” working class white people have backed the GOP into a cul-de-sac. NORMALLY . . normally . . political parties adapt their platform to the people, to attract as BROAD a following as possible. Reagan ran on the concept of a “big tent.”

      But the Trump GOP is mostly built on appealing only to an electoral minority and because that minority is predominantly white, aggrieved people (who feel they are losing their preferred status in life) and cultural conservatives, there is NO adaptation to appeal to a broader audience because doing so would clash with the values of that base.

      So, the republic slowly disintegrates

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      It’s their base… it’s their lifeblood.

      The future for the GOP is one big catch22

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      All one has to do is look at how the Trumpeters in the Cove recoil at names like Romney or Hogan to see how far out on the right Trumpers sit.

      Anyone to the left of Trump is a “leftist.”

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      I even heard DH labeled a leftist a time or too 🤣

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      All one has to do is look at how the Trumpeters in the Cove recoil at names like Romney or Hogan to see how far out on the right Trumpers sit.

      Anyone to the left of Trump is a “leftist.”

      In the House, of course, Liz Cheney has had one of the most conservative voting records, but as soon as she turned on the Orangeman insurrection, she became persona non grata in the rethugnican party, a RINO. What does that say about the integrity of the GOP? I mean, total cult of personality. The fact that they can’t see it is mind boggling. But that’s what defines a cult.

    • Donkey_Hunter

      Participant
      Post count: 3146

      I even heard DH labeled a leftist a time or too 🤣

      Well, you know me.

    • Charles

      Participant
      Post count: 720

      I gotta ask…you trumplican POS…what is your age?

      I have to know.

      I know you are all over 50.

      But seriously….how old are you dumbfucks?

      How many live in or near the villages or in rural areas?

      How many have only a high school education?

    • BucBalla85

      Participant
      Post count: 2642

      All one has to do is look at how the Trumpeters in the Cove recoil at names like Romney or Hogan to see how far out on the right Trumpers sit.

      Anyone to the left of Trump is a “leftist.”

      In the House, of course, Liz Cheney has had one of the most conservative voting records, but as soon as she turned on the Orangeman insurrection, she became persona non grata in the rethugnican party, a RINO. What does that say about the integrity of the GOP? I mean, total cult of personality. The fact that they can’t see it is mind boggling. But that’s what defines a cult.

      When you have both sides saying the other is a part of a cult is when you should be saying wtf is going on? It’s not supposed to be like that because that is when a lot of fucking people have been fed strait lies. It’s probably in everyone’s best interest who has no idea what I’m talking about to look in the fucking mirror. That is all…

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      When you have both sides saying the other is a part of a cult is when you should be saying wtf is going on? It’s not supposed to be like that because that is when a lot of fucking people have been fed strait lies. It’s probably in everyone’s best interest who has no idea what I’m talking about to look in the fucking mirror. That is all…

      There are times when it’s not all equal. I won’t defend everything the democrats say or do. They definitely have their issues. However, on the other side, the blind cult-like worship of Frump, despite his obvious lies and corruption, has no equivalent on the left. It just doesn’t work that way for us. Sorry. Again, you’re putting forth a false equivalence… this goes way beyond policy. His followers think he can do no wrong, they believe everything out of his mouth, and they demonize everyone who points out his dishonesty and incompetence. If he says “hoax”, they say “hoax”. If he says “witch hunt” they believe it. If he says stolen election, they raid the Capitol and try to upend an election. They take his word over the word of every Secretary of State and court in the country about fraud in the election. This denial and distrust of every other authority on the integrity of the election simply because one conman says so, could only be described as cult behavior. Find me an equivalent to this on the left.

    • BucBalla85

      Participant
      Post count: 2642

      When you have both sides saying the other is a part of a cult is when you should be saying wtf is going on? It’s not supposed to be like that because that is when a lot of fucking people have been fed strait lies. It’s probably in everyone’s best interest who has no idea what I’m talking about to look in the fucking mirror. That is all…

      There are times when it’s not all equal. I won’t defend everything the democrats say or do. They definitely have their issues. However, on the other side, the blind cult-like worship of Frump, despite his obvious lies and corruption, has no equivalent on the left. It just doesn’t work that way for us. Sorry. Again, you’re putting forth a false equivalence… this goes way beyond policy. His followers think he can do no wrong, they believe everything out of his mouth, and they demonize everyone who points out his dishonesty and incompetence. If he says “hoax”, they say “hoax”. If he says “witch hunt” they believe it. If he says stolen election, they raid the Capitol and try to upend an election. They take his word over the word of every Secretary of State and court in the country about fraud in the election. This denial and distrust of every other authority on the integrity of the election simply because one conman says so, could only be described as cult behavior. Find me an equivalent to this on the left.

      Sorry not sorry to you. Because you cannot accept that the shit you guys are putting out might be bs. You cannot accept it so you throw dumb shit out like oh sorry false equivalence so I can ignore everything you have to say and keep worshipping my side like my shit don’t stink. It stinks alot and you cannot admit it.

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      When you have both sides saying the other is a part of a cult is when you should be saying wtf is going on? It’s not supposed to be like that because that is when a lot of fucking people have been fed strait lies. It’s probably in everyone’s best interest who has no idea what I’m talking about to look in the fucking mirror. That is all…

      There are times when it’s not all equal. I won’t defend everything the democrats say or do. They definitely have their issues. However, on the other side, the blind cult-like worship of Frump, despite his obvious lies and corruption, has no equivalent on the left. It just doesn’t work that way for us. Sorry. Again, you’re putting forth a false equivalence… this goes way beyond policy. His followers think he can do no wrong, they believe everything out of his mouth, and they demonize everyone who points out his dishonesty and incompetence. If he says “hoax”, they say “hoax”. If he says “witch hunt” they believe it. If he says stolen election, they raid the Capitol and try to upend an election. They take his word over the word of every Secretary of State and court in the country about fraud in the election. This denial and distrust of every other authority on the integrity of the election simply because one conman says so, could only be described as cult behavior. Find me an equivalent to this on the left.

      Sorry not sorry to you. Because you cannot accept that the shit you guys are putting out might be bs. You cannot accept it so you throw dumb shit out like oh sorry false equivalence so I can ignore everything you have to say and keep worshipping my side like my shit don’t stink. It stinks alot and you cannot admit it.

      Like I said, give me an example of cult-like behavior from the left that is anywhere near the scale of the Orangeman cult. If you give a comparable example, then we can have a discussion about the similarities (or lack thereof).

    • BucBalla85

      Participant
      Post count: 2642

      When you have both sides saying the other is a part of a cult is when you should be saying wtf is going on? It’s not supposed to be like that because that is when a lot of fucking people have been fed strait lies. It’s probably in everyone’s best interest who has no idea what I’m talking about to look in the fucking mirror. That is all…

      There are times when it’s not all equal. I won’t defend everything the democrats say or do. They definitely have their issues. However, on the other side, the blind cult-like worship of Frump, despite his obvious lies and corruption, has no equivalent on the left. It just doesn’t work that way for us. Sorry. Again, you’re putting forth a false equivalence… this goes way beyond policy. His followers think he can do no wrong, they believe everything out of his mouth, and they demonize everyone who points out his dishonesty and incompetence. If he says “hoax”, they say “hoax”. If he says “witch hunt” they believe it. If he says stolen election, they raid the Capitol and try to upend an election. They take his word over the word of every Secretary of State and court in the country about fraud in the election. This denial and distrust of every other authority on the integrity of the election simply because one conman says so, could only be described as cult behavior. Find me an equivalent to this on the left.

      Sorry not sorry to you. Because you cannot accept that the shit you guys are putting out might be bs. You cannot accept it so you throw dumb shit out like oh sorry false equivalence so I can ignore everything you have to say and keep worshipping my side like my shit don’t stink. It stinks alot and you cannot admit it.

      Like I said, give me an example of cult-like behavior from the left that is anywhere near the scale of the Orangeman cult. If you give a comparable example, then we can have a discussion about the similarities (or lack thereof).

      The list is quite long and I actually just wrote them out but you know what it would be so much better of an exercise if you went out and tried to understand for yourself because it would be save us so much time and would make you a better person. Find out why I said what I said above and see why do half of the people feel the way they do. Not all of them are “trumpers” its becoming a loose term because it means nothing. Because this is never has never been about trump. It’s never been for me at least. So maybe you learn a thing or two.. again you will probably just not do anything and just continue to follow your tribe without any kind of understanding because I already know it would be a waste of my time to list it out because you all have your reasons for why you do your things but I don’t think you want to understand why the other side people think the way they do because many people feel you are just as indoctrinated as people who you think are trumpers. It’s ridiculous actully. So no I’m not gonna waste my time.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      That’s a lot of words to say nothing of value

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      It’s not supposed to be like that because that is when a lot of fucking people have been fed strait lies.

      I get your point and its a fair one, but two counters

      1) There are not two sides.

      There are at least three groups and the biggest group is in the middle with the other two always lobbing shells over their head. Trumpers are at one extreme and that should be obvious just by seeing all the GOP to your left. Trumpers– AND ESPECIALLY ANYONE WHO IS STILL A TRUMPER IN 2022 – are really extremists. Fascists to be more specific, knowing and unknowing. rumper are OVERLY represented here in the Cove, but still an electoral minority, a splinter group of the GOP.

      2. For two sides to live in different worlds it does not take BOTH sides being subject to lies.

      It only takes ONE side.

      To be fair there are LOONY people on BOTH SIDES OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM. In these times though, the LOONY leftist is largely ignored though because they are much smaller as a GROUP and NOT actively trying right now to overthrow the republic. Trumpers are front and center because they are the threat to the republic, LITERALLY.

      That said, there is NO DOUBT (except in the mind of Trumpers lol) that Trumpers are the ones being lied to. That obvious JUST BY LOOKING AROUND society or right here in the Cove. J

      ust because the Cove is easier to discuss on this point look at this and tell me where you disagree:

      A. Cove Trumpers are almost all CONSPIRACY THEORISTS .

      Buggsy and Runole have conspiracy theories for all things COVID.. Kermit too. Spartan is a “prepper” (I think) who believes Flynn is innocent etc. and who peddled the FBI theory about Jan 6th. One Truth believes every conspiracy theory known to man and is a HARD CORE Trumper. KKKChron posts gibberish that even if you try to decipher it is tied to every loony theory available. Runole things Fauci is worse than a Nazi doctor. The Trumpers here all believe Fauci is Dr. Evil who poisoned the world, from KKChron to JBear, who actually gives credence to the theories in his effort to claim he lacks credibility “with part of the country.”

      Not every Trumper is a conspiracy theorists, but every conspiracy theorist here is a TRUMPER. So is every objectively insane poster. There is no counterpart on the left of the Cove. DH is a former Trumper voter who shares many f the beleifs of Trumpers BUT was capable of seeing that Trump is a problem. Fire is a Portland liberal. BcNW seems to be a WA liberal. NoOne of them offer curable theories disconected from reality like “Fauci = Mengele” or “Covid deaths are actuall Medicare fraud.”

      B. Cove Trumpers all believe the MSM is “fake news” and get their information form crazy sources

      like YouTube and Ben Shapiro and even ADMITTED liars like these on Fox News. Spartan has posted the FBI Conspiracy here after seeing it on Faux news. JBaer/Coffee Island and others have posted Andy Ngo MULTIPLE TIMES and Rudy Guiliani lies too. Just look at thr KK Chron threads here right now. Runole says Fauci is Mengele. KKKChron says Dems are killing police and Biden is a human trafficker. Spartan and Buggsy have posted about terrorsts flooding the southern border.

      Just nomn this board there are COUNTLESS .. literally, countless . . examples of Trumpers posting things that they got from the COCOON that are easily demonstrably FALSE. If you could sell it, Buggsy would be a billionaire because he routineyly posts shit that is so bogus it blows up in his face.

      There was just a discussion here about whether the Covid vaccine works. The people who claimed it does not are ALL TRUMPERS . . every one of them.

      The people who claimed it does not are ALL TRUMPERS . . every one of them. Runole, Buggsy, Kermit, Spartan . . all Trumpers

      IT was a struggle, but with information that could be found online in 15 minutes, their position was obliterated to the point that the TRUMPER KING of that conspiracy (Runole) actually finally admitted his statement that the “vaccine doesnt work” because it doesn’t immunize youwas wrong. Kermit at least acted as if he learned something, so theres another reversal of sorts.

      BUT HERES THE BIG POINT when it comes to which side is disconnected from reality . . ITS ONLY TRUMPERS who refused to acknowledge their error and some actually still maintain the belief AFTER the truth was laid out here.

      THINK ABOUT THAT

      C. Cove Trumpers are Almost COMPLETELY LOCK-STEP in their beliefs

      There are miles and miles between the political views of myself, Fire, BucNW and DH. Think about that. Miles and miles. Every Trumper here believes almost EXACTLY the same thing. Spartan and Buggsy and Runole and Kermit all beleive most of the same things as each other . . AND AS CHRON. Think abut that. Even someone who PRETENDS to not be a Trumper (JBear) actually believes many of the same things that Trumpers believe.

      and even if you say they have shades of difference about SOME political beliefs, the one place where they are ABSOLUTELY LOCK STEP . . . is TRUMP. Not one of the hard core Trumpers here can make themselves LEGITIMATELY critizie Trump . . even when he OBVIOUSLY merits the criticism. January 6th is an example: NAME ONE TRUMPER WHO ACKNOWLEDGES THE ATTEMPT TO SUBVERT THE ELECTION?

      NAME ONE TRUMPER HERE WHO SAYS OPENLY that the “BIG LIE” is in fact a lie? I think I have seen Spartan tried to get close to that, but even then talks about “shenanigans” and “ballot stuffing” . . a YEAR later. NOT ONE TRUMPER accepts 63 court losses and Trump NOT talking his cases to the Supreme Court. EVERY Trumper here recoils at the OBVIOUS and negative comparison to Al Gore. EVERY TRUMPER

      LOCKSTEP

      D. The Leader is HIMSELF a CERTIFIABLE LOON

      Trump is just a rich version of Spartan or Buggsy or KKKChron. IF you pay attention to him and his words, he is, for example, a TRUE BELIEVER in the theories given to him by PILLOW GUY, SYDNEY POWELL and LIN WOOD (QAnon) and MIKE FLYNN. He obviously . . obviously, , spent 4 years, going on 5 now, PEDDLING conspiracies he read on the web or heard on Fox. He beloved every COVID CRACKPOT out there and promoted them. He has always pushed the bogus “DEEP STATE” thing. He was a “birther” for both Obama and then Harris (based on a memo by his coup architect, Eastman). He has repeatedly floated the Scarborough theory. He has offered the Epstein lies and the Vince Foster lies . . LOL. HE pushed the Seth Rich lie.

      AND JUST LIKE HIS TRUMP followers he never reverses court EVEN when new facts come out . .HE MAINTAINS that the Central Park guys are guilty, as one example. Never reverse on Seth Rich

      *******************************

      So, are their people on the left with a cult-like devotion to their politics? absolutely.

      A cult-like devotion to Bernie Sanders? Maybe? But if they exists they are a TINY segment of society.

      Trumpers basically control the House of representatives, so BIG .. BIG difference. Antifa (who Trumpers identify as their opposite) are a tiny, non-factor in society. Even the so-called “socialist” or “leftist” Democrat is OBVIOUSLY a much smaller portion of their party than Trumpers are to the GOP. The head of the GOP today is a Trump and he pushes the BIG Lie and every alternative Covid rememdy and all kinds of craxy conspiracy theories HIMSELF

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      The number one problem in politics today – for both DEMS AND THE GOP – is that true Trumpers feel aggrieved and feel Trump is their champion, not a CON MAN . . and there appears to be NO WAY to bring many of them back to reality. In fact, TRUMP has moved a large segment of GOP further from reality, a point that should be UNDENIABLE just by looking that the rise of PERFORMACE ART practiced by people like Greene, DeSantis, now Paul and Cruz and more.

      Or, just look at all that is happening because of the BOGUS concept of “CRT,” even with a GOP operative ON TAPE saying it was basically a con.

      Trumpers are literally the problem, not Trump.

      If Trumpers reversed course or even shed their allegiance to Trumpism) the sort of grievance politics we see today) the House would immediately follow. But, Trumpers are aggrieved, they feel they are losing their “deserved” station in life and they feel that the Establishment is to blame for that . . so it seem no turning back from Trump or Trumpism.

      I mean, they are STILL behind him after January 6th so . . .

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      The list is quite long and I actually just wrote them out but you know what it would be so much better of an exercise if you went out and tried to understand for yourself

      Sounds like you’re backing out. If it was easy to name it, you would name it. You made the list and you probably evaluated it and decided the arguments were not there to describe cult behavior.

      What if I have a blind spot and you could enlighten me with your amazing list? Maybe you could help me understand.

    • BucBalla85

      Participant
      Post count: 2642

      The list is quite long and I actually just wrote them out but you know what it would be so much better of an exercise if you went out and tried to understand for yourself

      Sounds like you’re backing out. If it was easy to name it, you would name it. You made the list and you probably evaluated it and decided the arguments were not there to describe cult behavior.

      What if I have a blind spot and you could enlighten me with your amazing list? Maybe you could help me understand.

      Not at all. I just know how this goes. It’s way better for you to go explore the places that you think are a cult and why they think the way they do. I’ll at least agree here to post my findings soo

      and why I think the left is a cult but I want you to do some research as well. You will understand why I said this. But till then I hope you do poke around in places you consider right and ask around. You will see their perspective and why it’s better to see for yourself than to just list them here without you actually seeing lots of different people voice the same concerns.

      Look both sides have a lot of flaws and I agree with some of the left but the way you guys handled any kind of counter argument to what your mainstream puts out is very cultish and I think it’s a good thing for everyone to understand why other people think the way they do. Because some people cant see what they don’t see unless they immerse themselves in it and hear other perspectives.

      It’s rather pointless to list them here and if you don’t understand why then I further you look to see why. Because i find the very continuous bashing of Trump as part of a reason why it’s a cult too. Because they never ever gave the man any credit for any good he did because they never wanted anybody to like him..but many people still voted for him. It’s not because they are as nasty as you think they are. Go find out. You may learn something.

      • buccaneerNW

        Participant
        Post count: 985

        That’s fair enough.

        To be clear, I’m suspicious of the ultra-woke gender-pronoun-obsessed social justice warriors. I don’t think they’re a cult, but there is an element of groupthink going on there that can be a bit stifling. And it wouldn’t surprise me if right wingers, especially magats, thought of them as a cult. I don’t want to equate that to the mass delusion of the Orangeman stolen election hoax witch-hunt cult, but… there ya have it.

    • BucBalla85

      Participant
      Post count: 2642

      It’s not supposed to be like that because that is when a lot of fucking people have been fed strait lies.

      I get your point and its a fair one, but two counters

      1) There are not two sides.

      There are at least three groups and the biggest group is in the middle with the other two always lobbing shells over their head. Trumpers are at one extreme and that should be obvious just by seeing all the GOP to your left. Trumpers– AND ESPECIALLY ANYONE WHO IS STILL A TRUMPER IN 2022 – are really extremists. Fascists to be more specific, knowing and unknowing. rumper are OVERLY represented here in the Cove, but still an electoral minority, a splinter group of the GOP.

      2. For two sides to live in different worlds it does not take BOTH sides being subject to lies.

      It only takes ONE side.

      To be fair there are LOONY people on BOTH SIDES OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM. In these times though, the LOONY leftist is largely ignored though because they are much smaller as a GROUP and NOT actively trying right now to overthrow the republic. Trumpers are front and center because they are the threat to the republic, LITERALLY.

      That said, there is NO DOUBT (except in the mind of Trumpers lol) that Trumpers are the ones being lied to. That obvious JUST BY LOOKING AROUND society or right here in the Cove. J

      ust because the Cove is easier to discuss on this point look at this and tell me where you disagree:

      A. Cove Trumpers are almost all CONSPIRACY THEORISTS .

      Buggsy and Runole have conspiracy theories for all things COVID.. Kermit too. Spartan is a “prepper” (I think) who believes Flynn is innocent etc. and who peddled the FBI theory about Jan 6th. One Truth believes every conspiracy theory known to man and is a HARD CORE Trumper. KKKChron posts gibberish that even if you try to decipher it is tied to every loony theory available. Runole things Fauci is worse than a Nazi doctor. The Trumpers here all believe Fauci is Dr. Evil who poisoned the world, from KKChron to JBear, who actually gives credence to the theories in his effort to claim he lacks credibility “with part of the country.”

      Not every Trumper is a conspiracy theorists, but every conspiracy theorist here is a TRUMPER. So is every objectively insane poster. There is no counterpart on the left of the Cove. DH is a former Trumper voter who shares many f the beleifs of Trumpers BUT was capable of seeing that Trump is a problem. Fire is a Portland liberal. BcNW seems to be a WA liberal. NoOne of them offer curable theories disconected from reality like “Fauci = Mengele” or “Covid deaths are actuall Medicare fraud.”

      B. Cove Trumpers all believe the MSM is “fake news” and get their information form crazy sources

      like YouTube and Ben Shapiro and even ADMITTED liars like these on Fox News. Spartan has posted the FBI Conspiracy here after seeing it on Faux news. JBaer/Coffee Island and others have posted Andy Ngo MULTIPLE TIMES and Rudy Guiliani lies too. Just look at thr KK Chron threads here right now. Runole says Fauci is Mengele. KKKChron says Dems are killing police and Biden is a human trafficker. Spartan and Buggsy have posted about terrorsts flooding the southern border.

      Just nomn this board there are COUNTLESS .. literally, countless . . examples of Trumpers posting things that they got from the COCOON that are easily demonstrably FALSE. If you could sell it, Buggsy would be a billionaire because he routineyly posts shit that is so bogus it blows up in his face.

      There was just a discussion here about whether the Covid vaccine works. The people who claimed it does not are ALL TRUMPERS . . every one of them.

      The people who claimed it does not are ALL TRUMPERS . . every one of them. Runole, Buggsy, Kermit, Spartan . . all Trumpers

      IT was a struggle, but with information that could be found online in 15 minutes, their position was obliterated to the point that the TRUMPER KING of that conspiracy (Runole) actually finally admitted his statement that the “vaccine doesnt work” because it doesn’t immunize youwas wrong. Kermit at least acted as if he learned something, so theres another reversal of sorts.

      BUT HERES THE BIG POINT when it comes to which side is disconnected from reality . . ITS ONLY TRUMPERS who refused to acknowledge their error and some actually still maintain the belief AFTER the truth was laid out here.

      THINK ABOUT THAT

      C. Cove Trumpers are Almost COMPLETELY LOCK-STEP in their beliefs

      There are miles and miles between the political views of myself, Fire, BucNW and DH. Think about that. Miles and miles. Every Trumper here believes almost EXACTLY the same thing. Spartan and Buggsy and Runole and Kermit all beleive most of the same things as each other . . AND AS CHRON. Think abut that. Even someone who PRETENDS to not be a Trumper (JBear) actually believes many of the same things that Trumpers believe.

      and even if you say they have shades of difference about SOME political beliefs, the one place where they are ABSOLUTELY LOCK STEP . . . is TRUMP. Not one of the hard core Trumpers here can make themselves LEGITIMATELY critizie Trump . . even when he OBVIOUSLY merits the criticism. January 6th is an example: NAME ONE TRUMPER WHO ACKNOWLEDGES THE ATTEMPT TO SUBVERT THE ELECTION?

      NAME ONE TRUMPER HERE WHO SAYS OPENLY that the “BIG LIE” is in fact a lie? I think I have seen Spartan tried to get close to that, but even then talks about “shenanigans” and “ballot stuffing” . . a YEAR later. NOT ONE TRUMPER accepts 63 court losses and Trump NOT talking his cases to the Supreme Court. EVERY Trumper here recoils at the OBVIOUS and negative comparison to Al Gore. EVERY TRUMPER

      LOCKSTEP

      D. The Leader is HIMSELF a CERTIFIABLE LOON

      Trump is just a rich version of Spartan or Buggsy or KKKChron. IF you pay attention to him and his words, he is, for example, a TRUE BELIEVER in the theories given to him by PILLOW GUY, SYDNEY POWELL and LIN WOOD (QAnon) and MIKE FLYNN. He obviously . . obviously, , spent 4 years, going on 5 now, PEDDLING conspiracies he read on the web or heard on Fox. He beloved every COVID CRACKPOT out there and promoted them. He has always pushed the bogus “DEEP STATE” thing. He was a “birther” for both Obama and then Harris (based on a memo by his coup architect, Eastman). He has repeatedly floated the Scarborough theory. He has offered the Epstein lies and the Vince Foster lies . . LOL. HE pushed the Seth Rich lie.

      AND JUST LIKE HIS TRUMP followers he never reverses court EVEN when new facts come out . .HE MAINTAINS that the Central Park guys are guilty, as one example. Never reverse on Seth Rich

      *******************************

      So, are their people on the left with a cult-like devotion to their politics? absolutely.

      A cult-like devotion to Bernie Sanders? Maybe? But if they exists they are a TINY segment of society.

      Trumpers basically control the House of representatives, so BIG .. BIG difference. Antifa (who Trumpers identify as their opposite) are a tiny, non-factor in society. Even the so-called “socialist” or “leftist” Democrat is OBVIOUSLY a much smaller portion of their party than Trumpers are to the GOP. The head of the GOP today is a Trump and he pushes the BIG Lie and every alternative Covid rememdy and all kinds of craxy conspiracy theories HIMSELF

      There’s a lot of people who don’t trust the mainstream media and go to other sources that’s been happening for a long time now and was happening even before trump got into the picture. I personally don’t see anything wrong with conspiracy theories. While many are bogus some could very well be true and some are nearly impossible to 100% prove to anybody but I still think it’s good to have people question what they’re mainstream is telling them. You put pieces together it’s not out of world of possibility that there are elites out there controlling mainstream narrative and what tbey want people to believr and to squash anybody who doesn’t believe it.

      I dunno it’s happened before in history. Was a lot easier to to before internet started because whatever news was you had go accept as truth. It’s not a bad thing that there are people out there who don’t trust the government. It’s happened in history before where government turned on its people for their own gain. So it’s good to have skepticism in our government. Wouldn’t it be nice if we all just trusted one another? That’s wishful thinking imo. We are not fully evolved species and I wish we would cut ourselves some slack for that. We’ve only started out this world of information spreading and it’s a good thing we have that because we can compare data and we don’t have to have some mainstream source doing it all for us. We can connect dots and can come to our own conclusions and I think that is where the people may disagree but I think it’s a good thing.

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      The list is quite long and I actually just wrote them out but you know what it would be so much better of an exercise if you went out and tried to understand for yourself

      Sounds like you’re backing out. If it was easy to name it, you would name it. You made the list and you probably evaluated it and decided the arguments were not there to describe cult behavior.

      What if I have a blind spot and you could enlighten me with your amazing list? Maybe you could help me understand.

      Not at all. I just know how this goes. It’s way better for you to go explore the places that you think are a cult and why they think the way they do. I’ll at least agree here to post my findings soo

      and why I think the left is a cult but I want you to do some research as well. You will understand why I said this. But till then I hope you do poke around in places you consider right and ask around. You will see their perspective and why it’s better to see for yourself than to just list them here without you actually seeing lots of different people voice the same concerns.

      Look both sides have a lot of flaws and I agree with some of the left but the way you guys handled any kind of counter argument to what your mainstream puts out is very cultish and I think it’s a good thing for everyone to understand why other people think the way they do. Because some people cant see what they don’t see unless they immerse themselves in it and hear other perspectives.

      It’s rather pointless to list them here and if you don’t understand why then I further you look to see why. Because i find the very continuous bashing of Trump as part of a reason why it’s a cult too. Because they never ever gave the man any credit for any good he did because they never wanted anybody to like him..but many people still voted for him. It’s not because they are as nasty as you think they are. Go find out. You may learn something.

      That’s fair enough.

      To be clear, I’m suspicious of the ultra-woke gender-pronoun-obsessed social justice warriors. I don’t think they’re a cult, but there is an element of groupthink going on there that can be a bit stifling. And it wouldn’t surprise me if right wingers, especially magats, thought of them as a cult. I don’t want to equate that to the mass delusion of the Orangeman stolen election hoax witch-hunt cult, but… there ya have it.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      but many people still voted for him. It’s not because they are as nasty as you think they are. Go find out. You may learn something.

      This ^^^^ is not really supported by the statistics.

      Trump turned out MOSTLY hard core GOP faithful (not the whole party) who feared an absolute landslide against him, as proven below and by the GOOD results for GOP in Congress (people usually vote same ticket). He lost to Biden by a LOT because, by comparison, Biden turned out his ENTIRE PARTY against Trump and MANY INDEPENDENTS and even GOP. . . and NEW VOTERS (people motivated to get Trump out)

      That’s not because Biden was special (far from it), its because TRUMP WAS SO REPULSIVE to so many

      HERE IS THE PROOF:

      “Overall, one-in-four 2020 voters (25%) had not voted in 2016. About a quarter of these (6% of all 2020 voters) showed up two years later – in 2018 – to cast ballots in the highest-turnout midterm election in decades. Those who voted in 2018 but not in 2016 backed Biden over Trump in the 2020 election by about two-to-one (62% to 36%).”

      SO, Trumps actions in 2016 -2017 REALLY MOTIVATED people to control him and then vote him OUT. 62% of new voters versus 36%

      and not only did that MOVE AWAY FROM TRUMP show up there, but other places too and those places were within groups who REALLY wanted CHANGE:

      “Both Trump and Biden were able to bring new voters into the political process in 2020. The 19% of 2020 voters who did not vote in 2016 or 2018 split roughly evenly between the two candidates (49% Biden vs. 47% Trump). However, as with voters overall, there was a substantial age divide within this group. Among those under age 30 who voted in 2020 but not in either of the two previous elections, Biden led 59% to 33%, while Trump won among new or irregular voters ages 30 and older by 55% to 42%. Younger voters also made up an outsize share of these voters: Those under age 30 made up 38% of new or irregular 2020 voters, though they represented just 15% of all 2020 voters.”

      YOUNG PEOPLE are a notoriously UNRELIABLE demo that turned out BIG TIME and against Trump

      AND THEN LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED WITH THIRD-PARTY VOTERS (like me), they went BACK TO THE ESTABLSHMENT:

      “One somewhat unusual aspect of the 2016 election was the relatively high share of voters (nearly 6%) who voted for one of the third-party candidates (mostly the Libertarian and Green Party nominees), a fact many observers attributed to the relative unpopularity of both major party candidates. By comparison, just 2% of voters chose a third-party candidate in 2020. Overall, third-party 2016 voters who turned out in 2020 voted 53%-36% for Biden over Trump, with 10% opting for a third-party candidate. Among the 5% of Republicans who voted third-party in 2016 and voted in 2020, a majority (70%) supported Trump in 2020, but 18% backed Biden. Among the 5% of Democrats who voted third-party in 2016 and voted in 2020, just 8% supported Trump in 2020 while 85% voted for Biden.

      These are all signs of people FREAKING OUT over Trump and running to the polls to kick his ass out. This is why Biden was able to rather easily overcome the higher turnout FOR TRUMP. and in fact , Trump slid in many core groups:

      “Here are some of the other key findings from the analysis:”

      Biden made gains with suburban voters.

      Biden made gains with men, while Trump improved among women, narrowing the gender gap

      Biden improved over Clinton among White non-college voter (TRUMPS KEY DEMO)

      Biden grew his support with some religious groups while Trump held his ground.

      THIS IS THE BIG ONE

      “In 2016, Trump won White men by 30 points (62% to 32%). That gap narrowed to a 17-point margin for Trump in 2020 (57% to 40%). “

      and the BIGGEST ONE:

      “Biden and Trump benefited from similar levels of party loyalty in 2020, with Trump receiving 92% support among Republicans and Republican-leaning independents and Biden getting 94% among Democrats and Democratic leaners. Comparable levels of support for each candidate were seen among Democrats (95% for Biden) and Republicans (94% for Trump), not including leaners. Among independents and those who affiliated with other parties, Biden led Trump by 52%-43%.”

      THIS IS WHY TRUMP LOST by millions of votes even while turning out his own party. He slipped in many categories (gained in Hispanics and women) and basically got crushed by independent and NEW voters

      (The new voter part is why you guys are trying so hard to suppress voting)

      You can see the loss most clearly right here with Trump FRACTURING his own party compared to Biden UNITING his party:

      “Ideological divisions within the parties were also apparent in the vote, with both Trump and Biden doing better among the ideological core of their parties. Trump received the votes of 97% of conservative Republicans and leaners but a smaller majority (79%) of Republicans who describe themselves as moderate or liberal. Biden took 98% of the vote among liberal Democrats and leaners and 91% among those who are moderate or conservative.

      Trump totally lost people like me and people that the GOP would normally win AND he MOTIVATED non-voters to vote. And maybe the worse new for Trump is that his voters are DYING, literally. From Covid and from AGE:

      “Only among members of the Silent Generation, ages 75 to 92 in 2020, was Trump clearly favored (by 58%-42%). Notably, Boomers and Silents (and the very small number of voters from the Greatest Generation) made up less than half of the electorate in 2020 (44%), compared with just over half in both 2016 and 2018.”

      2020 was a referendum on Trump and so he got support from people who feel that we really need to Make America Great AGAIN, but by definition that includes many older Americans (like Trump)

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      Bucballa saying the left is a cult… please do tell!

      Do Biden and the Dems pimp out their own version of MAGA swag I’m unaware of?

      Do I call Biden holy and perfect?

      I’m genuinely curious where you think the cult behavior is?

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      I’m genuinely curious where you think the cult behavior is?

      Me too. I’m super curious what they might think is a comparable level of cult-like behavior such that any of us worship the words of one person no matter how much those words are completely self-promoting, self-excusing, self-interested lies. There is no one on the left who carries that kind of power.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      I’m gonna guess:

      Worship science
      Worship Fauci
      Worship socialism
      Worship big tech

      Something like that… there certainly aren’t any politicians that I vehemently love… I’ve literally never been to a political rally.

      I barely even donate to the ones I support.

      Don’t own any swag. Don’t put out signs on my lawn

      I just get my mail ballot and vote and call it a day.

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1866

      A big open door that no one has ever walked in …. In a state that is basically two states in one, red ….. hard core red … and very very blue.

      Geographically I agree with you, most of the state is red, but numerically Oregon is very blue. Biden won by 16 pts. There is no point to any voter fraud in Oregon.

      Swing States like Wisconsin though might be a little bit more tempting. Especially when you have a huge metropolis like Milwaukee where Democrats own the entire political machine. Same with Michigan. Very red for 90% of the state geographically, but very blue in one or 2 urban areas. Both those States were won by pretty small margins the last 2 election cycles.

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1866

      Trump turned out MOSTLY hard core GOP faithful

      He got more votes than 2016. How can that be described as “mostly hardcore faithful?”

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      Voter turnout was way up

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      Trump turned out MOSTLY hard core GOP faithful

      He got more votes than 2016. How can that be described as “mostly hardcore faithful?”

      Spartan, you are like the football coach who says “but we scored 35 points and that is 6 better than our average” when the other team scores 49 points. Its that difference “we did so well compared to 2016 AND STILL lost” that has your party now trying to stop colored folks from voting :-)

      I say in the posts above, GOP voters turned up to try to hold back a landslide. It was NOT even close to enough at the TOP of the ticket, but there were beneficiaries lower on the ticket, right? That’s because Trump lost votes within the GOP and then lost many other categories

      Not sure, maybe you do not get this, but generally speaking the GOP does not win the Presidency without EXPANDING beyond its base (Reagan and the “big tent”) or suppressing votes or both because the policy positions are typically minority positions.

      Trump wins in 2016 because the “tea party-ish” “anti-Establishment” movement is at max and the other candidate is as ESTABLISHMENT as you get and also very divisive.

      Trump loses in 2020 to a “milk toast” Establishment candidate in 2020 because Trump is LITERALLY a four year SHIT STAIN who TRANSPARENTLY (to any objective person) tried to downplay COVID for political gain . . to the tune of 800K dead. If he gets nothing done, but tries to by compromise etc and handles Covid admirably (follows the science etc) and still 500K die . . . he gets re-elected.

      Instead, he lost in a landslide EVEN WITH STRONG GOP TURNOUT because he is Trump

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1866

      Spartan, you are like the football coach who says “but we scored 35 points and that is 6 better than our average” when the other team scores 49 points. Its that difference “we did so well compared to 2016 AND STILL lost” that has your party now trying to stop colored folks from voting :-)

      I disagree. And I am not disputing that Biden won, just that Trump relied on his “core vote.” If that was the case his vote would have shrunk but still won in certain areas. Trump garnered more votes. He got more hispanic votes and he got more black votes. Now I am not disputing that more dems turned out or looking at some the stats you produced are false. I am just saying that Trumps vote was pure and simple his “core” support is plainly wrong.

    • TURBO

      Participant
      Post count: 379

      The core problem with equality, or what those who think they are not being treated equally, is this.

      They don’t want equality, they want to be treated better than everyone else, they want to be special because of their religion, their skin color, their sexuality, their gender (or lack of), etc…

      That is the problem with people today who scream “EQUALITY!”

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 8456

        What data or evidence do you have to backup this ridiculous claim?

    • TURBO

      Participant
      Post count: 379

      They don’t want to be treated equal, they want to be treated better than…

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      They don’t want to be treated equal, they want to be treated better than…

      That’s total BS. Doesn’t even warrant a response.

    • harrybucman

      Participant
      Post count: 1099

      They don’t want to be treated equal, they want to be treated better than…

      I would really be interested in a few examples of this being the case or some documentedl data to support your claim.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      Spartan, you are like the football coach who says “but we scored 35 points and that is 6 better than our average” when the other team scores 49 points. Its that difference “we did so well compared to 2016 AND STILL lost” that has your party now trying to stop colored folks from voting :-)

      I disagree. And I am not disputing that Biden won, just that Trump relied on his “core vote.” If that was the case his vote would have shrunk but still won in certain areas. Trump garnered more votes. He got more hispanic votes and he got more black votes. Now I am not disputing that more dems turned out or looking at some the stats you produced are false. I am just saying that Trumps vote was pure and simple his “core” support is plainly wrong.

      That’s not what I sued but it’s okay. It’s all there to review if you want. Twice actually.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      The core problem with equality, or what those who think they are not being treated equally, is this.

      They don’t want equality, they want to be treated better than everyone else, they want to be special because of their religion, their skin color, their sexuality, their gender (or lack of), etc…

      That is the problem with people today who scream “EQUALITY!”

      A White person who feels threatened says that lol

    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 985

      They don’t want to be treated equal, they want to be treated better than…

      That’s total BS. Doesn’t even warrant a response.

      File under: “How to make a Frumper’s head explode”

      Sounds like a white guy complaining because he’s afraid of not being treated better than everyone else anymore. Other people wanting equality threatens your privilege.

    • harrybucman

      Participant
      Post count: 1099

      They don’t want to be treated equal, they want to be treated better than…

      I would really be interested in a few examples of this being the case or some documentedl data to support your claim.

      Before you reply, I’m going to tell you, as a black man who grew up in the segragated south and has fought so many years for equality, I think that’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard.

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 1099

        Just to give you an example of conditions your priviledged ass has no clue about.
        I have a grandson who’s graduating this year with a degree in engineering. He’s already had an internship with Microsoft and they plan to hire him. Couldn’t ask for a better kid. Smart, handsome. motivated and respectful.
        When he turned 16, his parents bought him a car–1968 Chevy Impala. He wanted to put some of those spinning rims on it. And at that time he wore his hair in long braids. I had a fit. I feared him being racially profiled, pulled over for some bullshit and getting shot by some redneck renegade cop. I feared it so much, I convinced him to let me buy him a more conventional car and to cut those braids off. I didn’t want better, I just wanted him to be treated equitably so he wouldn’t become a statistic.

        Now can you please expain to me this want better concept

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 1099

        Black parents have to live with that kind of fear, in particular as it relates to our sons. And American history proves it’s justified. We don’t want better, just give us a level playing field and we’ll handle it from there.

    • Blayton Cigsby

      Participant
      Post count: 3009

      Trump wins in 2016 because the “tea party-ish” “anti-Establishment” movement is at max and the other candidate is as ESTABLISHMENT as you get and also very divisive.

      Trump loses in 2020 to a “milk toast” Establishment candidate in 2020 because Trump is LITERALLY a four year SHIT STAIN who TRANSPARENTLY (to any objective person) tried to downplay COVID for political gain . . to the tune of 800K dead. If he gets nothing done, but tries to by compromise etc and handles Covid admirably (follows the science etc) and still 500K die . . . he gets re-elected.

      Instead, he lost in a landslide EVEN WITH STRONG GOP TURNOUT because he is Trump

      Jus to show this was not some fluke:

      “In a recent Associated Press survey, 44 percent of Republicans said they did not want Mr. Trump to run for president again, while a potential G.O.P. rival in 2024, Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida, has narrowed the gap in other way-too-early snapshots of a hypothetical primary — new signs of potential vulnerability for the former president.

      In a reversal from Mr. Trump’s White House days, an NBC News poll in late January found that 56 percent of Republicans now define themselves more as supporters of the Republican Party, compared to 36 percent who said they are supporters of Mr. Trump first.

      The Trump-first faction had accounted for 54 percent of Republican voters in October 2020. The erosion since then spanned every demographic: men and women, moderates and conservatives, people of every age.

      Among the biggest swings was in a group widely seen as Mr. Trump’s most loyal constituency: white Republicans without college degrees, who went from 62 percent identifying first with Mr. Trump to 36 percent.

      Frank Luntz, a prominent G.O.P. pollster, said Republican support for the former president is moving in complex ways — simultaneously both intensifying and diminishing.

      “The Trump group is smaller today than it has been in five years, but it is even more intense, more passionate and more unforgiving of his critics,” Mr. Luntz said. “As people slowly drift away — which they are — those who are still with him are even stronger in their support.”

      LUNTZ is a big Trump supporter, as far as pollsters go. he is describing The Cove Trumpers (“those who are still with him are even stronger in their support”), which is why I said above they are not really representative of the GOP

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 8456

      Most of the time these threads just get abandoned after statements like turbo… or IB just starts another thread while on a mushroom trip.

      It is what it is…

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