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    • Dy-nasty D

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      Post count: 268

      I regularly hear that teams should draft for need to shore up the weaknesses on their rosters. For example, I hear that we shouldn’t draft Howard because we have Brate. I also hear that we don’t need another top WR, because we have Evans, etc.

      When is the time to add to a position of strength to overwhelm an opponent? For instance, adding Howard to Brate, adding Davis to Evans, or adding Caleb Brantley to McCoy, instead of filling holes?

      Is a team better if it has all holes filled to a respectable level, or are they better if they have a couple of dominant positions of strength with a couple of sub-par positions?

      Discuss.

      (Btw, only talking about adding to positions of strength when another position is available to fill. Obviously, we shouldn’t add a top QB, since he won’t get on the field.)

    • GottaJaboo

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      Post count: 5941

      Don’t care what Koetter says, OL is our biggest need. That said, this draft is not rife with legitimate NFL linemen that are out of the box ready to play. So, unless someone like Cam Robinson fall to Tampa, I say they take the best player available for a position of need. Brate is not a super star in the making, he has potential to be a really good TE for a long time but he’s no Gates, for example. OJ has potential to be something special. Jameis has accomplished what he has so far, without many weapons. So anything to upgrade his arsenal should be encouraged.

      GoldsonAges on 2nd round pick, Safety, Justin Evans, out of Texas A&M – “coaching can’t fix this”.

    • Dy-nasty D

      Participant
      Post count: 268

      Gottajaboo, I hear ya. The OL looked awful last season. I don’t think the FO wants to give up on the youth of the OL, since they conceivably have upside. I’d be up for adding a C, or adding a G and having one of our Gs move to C, and/or a developmental RT to eventually replace Dotson.

      What’s your take on why the OL looked like it regressed last year? Mankins’ departure? Dougie on drugs? This team needs to find a running game more than anything. It would help the O and the D.

      • Dy-nasty D

        Participant
        Post count: 268

        Are you confident that Robinson is any better than what we have?

        I’m not.

    • Hank Scorpio

      Participant
      Post count: 394

      The fact that Cam Robinson is talked about as the best OL prospect in this draft tells you everything you need to know about targeting that position in an early round.  In most years he’s at the back end of the 2nd round.

      IMO the 1st rd is all about adding playmakers, and if they fill a position of need, then it’s an added bonus.  But with our 1st pick, we should be looking to add someone who would provide a significant upgrade to our offense or defense, even if we already have another good player at that position.

      Adding someone like OJ Howard or David Njoku despite already having Brate provides a significant upgrade in what we’re able to do on offense with personnel/playcalling and increases our athleticism at that position.

      Adding a WR like Corey Davis (assuming he develops quickly) puts opposing defenses in a bad position by either forcing them to play us straight, or risk focusing on Evans and leaving another talented playmaker wide open.

      Even though I’d disagree with the strategy, adding a playmaking RB like Fournette, Cook, or McCaffery, despite having good RB talent on the roster already (I’m of the opinion that we keep Martin on a re-structured deal) means there’s no break for the defense when the starter goes out, because whoever comes in is just as likely to break off a big play.

      Adding a top level DT or DE makes it harder for teams to focus on our more established guys like McCoy, Ayers, and Spence to a certain degree.  You get enough talent on the DL to where you’re not having to blitz to generate pressure, and you’re likely going to the playoffs on a consistent basis (unless you have a dumpster fire QB situation like the Rams).

    • GottaJaboo

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      Post count: 5941

      Are you confident that Robinson is any better than what we have?

      I’m not.

      Here’s my take on Robinson. He played at Alabama……..

      It’s really tough to say if he will be better or is more talented than what we got. Last year’s regression can be attributed to a lot of things but, it wasn’t super great at pass blocking the year before. I agree that a good running game seems to cure a lot of problems on the line. I think if we can get OJ, we should get him and find a Conner, Mixon, Gallman, somewhere later in the draft. OJ causes major matchup problems for every team we face. FA will be telling.

      GoldsonAges on 2nd round pick, Safety, Justin Evans, out of Texas A&M – “coaching can’t fix this”.

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13924

      The O-Line is indeed a cause for concern. But, I think Licht and Koetter are going to roll with what they have. One of the reasons could be how mediocre (at best) the O-Line class is this year.

      I’m all for just going BPA regardless of whether it feels a need or bolsters a strength. Using your example of pairing Howard with Brate…why not add a guy like that if he’s BPA?

      Brate is an outstanding TE. He’s far better than ASJ will ever be, and any body with common sense could see that.  We have a QB who has some accuracy issues, so adding another big target (who also helps out addressing blocking) would be a plus.

       

       

    • STULAAKE

      Participant
      Post count: 183

      Draft BPA…

    • Pepsi

      Participant
      Post count: 2065

      I regularly hear that teams should draft for need to shore up the weaknesses on their rosters. For example, I hear that we shouldn’t draft Howard because we have Brate. I also hear that we don’t need another top WR, because we have Evans, etc. When is the time to add to a position of strength to overwhelm an opponent? For instance, adding Howard to Brate, adding Davis to Evans, or adding Caleb Brantley to McCoy, instead of filling holes? Is a team better if it has all holes filled to a respectable level, or are they better if they have a couple of dominant positions of strength with a couple of sub-par positions? Discuss. (Btw, only talking about adding to positions of strength when another position is available to fill. Obviously, we shouldn’t add a top QB, since he won’t get on the field.)

      With someone like OJ Howard, questioning that pick isnt just about bringing up how our current TE played at a probowl level, its also about whether Howard is good value at 19 when this happens to be a real deep TE class in terms of projected NFL starters who have ideal NFL size. So wed be taking a TE at 19 when we have a real solid one already, and there are real solid TEs in rounds 2-4.

      A similar case could be made to argue WR at 19. I definitely would want to overwhelm our opponents by pairing Evans with someone good, but Im wondering why it has to be a WR at 19. Wouldnt we overwhelm them with Evans + a good vet FA WR + a 2nd – 3rd round WR like Shcuster, Dupree, Cannon, etc. Im not opposed to Davis or Ross in the first though, and it also is a position of need. I think you were trying to say that if we draft a WR the implication would be that would didnt fill a need, but thats not the case imo. WR is surely a need (weapons in general are a need), its just a question of  whether pick 19 used for a WR is better value than something else.

      I also think drafting someone like Caleb Brantley to pair with McCoy isnt bypassing a need, its filling a need. That need is simply a better DT to pair next to McCoy, depth at DT , depth for Dline in general, and the need to create a better/more consistent pass rush. Any player picked along the Dline whether its a DT or DE is filling a need. Our Dline had stretches of good play, and it also had a huge stretch at the beginning of the season of bad play. Until that Dline is consistently dangerous then there will be a need for improvement imo.

    • Defense5599

      Blocked
      Post count: 1843

      There are so many positions on this team that could use upgrades, one of them is bound to be there at pick #19.  I agree with Stulaake, draft the BPA.   If you have concerns about OL, upgrade it through free agency.  This draft is not deep with O-Linemen.

    • Pepsi

      Participant
      Post count: 2065

      There are so many positions on this team that could use upgrades, one of them is bound to be there at pick #19. I agree with Stulaake, draft the BPA. If you have concerns about OL, upgrade it through free agency. This draft is not deep with O-Linemen.

      This depends a bit on your view on Cam Robinson, I personally would love to add him to our core young Oline group. At 19 I think that would be a great pick. RT for  years to come, with the possibility of moving to LT if needed or if were in good shape with the tackles then hes probowl guard. The Combination of Smith, Marpet, and Robinson would be 3 guys that could be moved around in the future if needed. Would love that.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 778

      From my point of view the question is how many snaps and how much impact will the ‘extra’ guy give you in a stacked position. We have no #2 WR so drafting that high the guy is going to play and get lots of snaps unless he’s a total nitwit. For adding a 2nd TE… will he be the 1TE or the 2TE? How many snaps will he play as a 2TE? Is that really ‘worth’ the draft slot?

      Same if we go DE in the first round, is he a 3 down DE? or just a pass rush specialist that needs to develop? How many snaps and impact plays are you adding to the team?

    • Havok904

      Participant
      Post count: 13021

      Don’t care what Koetter says, OL is our biggest need. That said, this draft is not rife with legitimate NFL linemen that are out of the box ready to play. So, unless someone like Cam Robinson fall to Tampa, I say they take the best player available for a position of need. Brate is not a super star in the making, he has potential to be a really good TE for a long time but he’s no Gates, for example. OJ has potential to be something special. Jameis has accomplished what he has so far, without many weapons. So anything to upgrade his arsenal should be encouraged.

      The Bucs other positional needs supersede adding another TE. That high pick would best used on a legitimate WR threat, top tier DL, or OL help.

      Brate may not fit your model of a “special” TE, but he proved last season that he is more than capable of being an All Pro at his position in the future.

      If anything, add a blocking TE in the later rounds, FA, or UDFA.

      PS.

      He was Winston’s second weapon last season considering the fact that the Bucs’ WR corp sucked so bad.

       

    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2971

      From my point of view the question is how many snaps and how much impact will the ‘extra’ guy give you in a stacked position. We have no #2 WR so drafting that high the guy is going to play and get lots of snaps unless he’s a total nitwit. For adding a 2nd TE… will he be the 1TE or the 2TE? How many snaps will he play as a 2TE? Is that really ‘worth’ the draft slot? Same if we go DE in the first round, is he a 3 down DE? or just a pass rush specialist that needs to develop? How many snaps and impact plays are you adding to the team?

      I agree with this. I wouldn’t draft a tackle in this class, because they may not be good enough to play. No guard is going to beat out Sweezy, or Marpet. Center would be my focus. I think Toth, Orlosky, or Crowley could be potential sterters one day. Those are late round prospects.

      I wish we never signed Sweezy. There are 2 road graders in the draft. Zach Banner, and David Sharpe. I would have loved one of those guys to push Pamphile for a starting job, but this is where the Sweezy mistake gets compounded by preventing us from acquiring better talent, and he may not even play. Blah

       

      GottaJaboo wrote:
      (Justin) Evans will be far superior to (Budda) Baker in the pros.

      Dan Skipper Sucks! (lost bet)
      Update – UDFA Dan Skipper has been signed by the Dallas Cowboys

    • Havok904

      Participant
      Post count: 13021

      From my point of view the question is how many snaps and how much impact will the ‘extra’ guy give you in a stacked position. We have no #2 WR so drafting that high the guy is going to play and get lots of snaps unless he’s a total nitwit. For adding a 2nd TE… will he be the 1TE or the 2TE? How many snaps will he play as a 2TE? Is that really ‘worth’ the draft slot? Same if we go DE in the first round, is he a 3 down DE? or just a pass rush specialist that needs to develop? How many snaps and impact plays are you adding to the team?

      I agree with this. I wouldn’t draft a tackle in this class, because they may not be good enough to play. No guard is going to beat out Sweezy, or Marpet. Center would be my focus. I think Toth, Orlosky, or Crowley could be potential sterters one day. Those are late round prospects. I wish we never signed Sweezy. There are 2 road graders in the draft. Zach Banner, and David Sharpe. I would have loved one of those guys to push Pamphile for a starting job, but this is where the Sweezy mistake gets compounded by preventing us from acquiring better talent, and he may not even play. Blah

      I agree, we should have never signed Sweezy. He is going to be a pass protection liability.

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