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    • michael89156

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      Post count: 3229

      For the Bucs what is fact and what is fictionBy Hunter Robinsonfact_zps7ba4c11a.pngThe 2014 Tampa Bay Buccaneers’ season is quickly approaching and with the offseason moves taken by the Bucs front office, there is a great amount of excitement in the air. In this Fact or Fiction article, we will be taking a look at some of the big questions heading into the 2014 season 1. Tampa Bay could have a defender who leads the NFL in sacks – Fact It is very possible for the Bucs to have a defensive player who, at the end of the season, stands at the top of the list for most sacks. With the acquisition of Michael Johnson in the offseason, the Bucs have a serious sack trio consisting of Johnson, Lavonte David and Gerald McCoy. McCoy was tied for 25th place on the total sacks list in 2013 with 9.5 sacks, and in 2012 Johnson had 11.5 sacks. Johnson might have put up similar numbers last year in Cincinnati, but an injury to Geno Atkins made Johnson easier to contain. The only duo that is scarier in the NFL than McCoy and Johnson would be Von Miller and Demarcus Ware of the Denver Broncos. If McCoy and Johnson are both on top of their game, as well as David, there should be plenty of sacks to go around in Tampa. 2. Mike Evans will win rookie of the year – Fiction As good as I think he will be for this team, I do not see Evans winning rookie of the year. The weakest link in the Buccaneer offense this year looks to be at quarterback, where there are multiple questions surrounding if McCown or Glennon can get the job done. Depending on the week, Evans could be playing with Josh McCown or with Mike Glennon which could affect his performance. If the quarterback is unable to get the ball to Evans, how is he going to win rookie of the year? I will say that the best chance for Evans to win ROY is if McCown plays the same way he did in Chicago, when he filled in for the injured Jay Cutler in 2013, for all 16 games. On a side note, since 1990, only four wide receivers have won rookie of the year. They include Carl Pickens (1992), Randy Moss (1998), Anquan Boldin (2003) and Percy Harvin (2009). 3. Doug Martin will rush for 1,400 yards again in 2014 – Fact. Martin had an outstanding rookie season in 2012, rushing for over 1,400 yards and 11 touchdowns. He quickly became a fan favorite and a hot commodity in fantasy football. Then in the 2013 season, with high expectations, Martin was less than impressive as he accumulated only 456 yards and one touchdown through six games. He then suffered a torn labrum and was out for the rest of the season. Now Martin is looking to redeem himself after he left many fans and fantasy owners disappointed in 2013. The backfield in Tampa is very crowded with the addition of rookie Charles Sims, but Martin is still the go to running back. Tampa has also brought in offensive linemen to help with the blocking issue that Tampa has had a problem with over the past few years. So barring a major injury, Martin will be back to his rookie season form. 4. Bucs will sweep an NFC South opponent – Fact. There is only one NFC South team that the Bucs will have a chance at sweeping this year, and I think everyone knows who that is. The Carolina Panthers are going to be the last place team in the NFC South in 2014. It is crazy to think after they made the playoffs in 2013, but with the deportation of their top receivers, Cam Newton is going to have a rough time getting the offense going. In 2013, the Panthers’ running game was very unimpressive (not including Newton) and the only thing that really kept them in the game was the big passing plays and the Panthers’ defense. Now that Steve Smith and Brandon LaFell are gone, the Panthers’ passing game and the running game are both going to be unimpressive and Newton will be running (literally) for his life. Not even the defense will be able to save their season. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers will be able to sweep the Panthers to at least finish third in the division. 5. Bucs will win the NFC South – FictionThis one is the biggest stretch of all and unless a lot of injuries occur to big name players (mainly Drew Brees and Mat Ryan) this one is not going to happen. The New Orleans Saints are the favorite to win the NFC South, and are always dangerous when Brees is calling the shots. The Saints have the greatest chance of winning the division and making a run in the playoffs. The Falcons had a terrible season last year after injuries hampered their receiving corps and Steven Jackson was a huge bust. The Falcons really need Julio Jones and Rodney White to stay healthy this year if they want a shot at taking the division away from the Saints. Even though they are heading in the right direction, Tampa will finish third again this year simply because they are still getting accustomed with each other. The Bucs have made outstanding moves and in the coming years will be a force to be reckoned with, but with a new coach, new quarterback, new players on defense and a new wide receiver, it will take some time getting use to playing alongside one another. link

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 181

      IMO….. option 4 has the best chance of being fact.That said, all 5 options will likely end up being fiction.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      All 5 are clearly fact .

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      Clayborn will be more of a factor than Johnson this year IMO.  Clayborn just needed a coach to figure him out with schemes and Lovie is that guy.  Martin has next to zero chance of getting 1400 yards this season, it’s not how I think Tedford will play the position.  I think we sweep Atlanta and I think we have a shot at winning the NFC south. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4623

      I don’t see Martin getting enough carries to reach 1,400 yards. We’re not playing dinosaur football anymore where only one running back gets the ball.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9128

      I think Martin is more than capable of putting up 1400 yards, but I don’t think the play calling will let him see that. I could see us possibly sweeping the Falcons or the Panthers.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8983

      It’s fiction to believe glennon is a good qb.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9128

      It's fiction to believe glennon is a good qb.

      If it comes to being a game manager, yes, I think he'll be good. But, as far as putting a team on his back and winning shootouts; I don't think he'll ever be that guy.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9276

      All 5 are clearly fact .

      the only one that gives me pause is the mention of Evans catching passes from McCown and Glennon. If that happens, our season is shot to hell. FACT

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      Our success this year as it is most years with any good team will be dictated on the defensive side of the ball.  If we are top 10 defensively we will be 9-7 or better.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9276

      i’m sure that 32nd ranked offense last year had nothing to do with our demise

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 391

      If we have the NFLs leading sacker and a 1400 yard back, I don’t know how you can say that we couldn’t win the division. It’s like they didn’t think about how their statements would actually impact the games.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9128

      FACT is that this defense will allow us to be in every game we play this season.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      If we have the NFLs leading sacker and a 1400 yard back, I don't know how you can say that we couldn't win the division. It's like they didn't think about how their statements would actually impact the games.

      Not to be negative but I am sure Allen and AP had that going in Minny a couple of years.  Meant nothing. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9128

      If we have the NFLs leading sacker and a 1400 yard back, I don't know how you can say that we couldn't win the division. It's like they didn't think about how their statements would actually impact the games.

      Not to be negative but I am sure Allen and AP had that going in Minny a couple of years.  Meant nothing.

      Too bad they had a big, steaming pile of dog turd at the QB position and were poorly coached.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      If we have the NFLs leading sacker and a 1400 yard back, I don't know how you can say that we couldn't win the division. It's like they didn't think about how their statements would actually impact the games.

      Not to be negative but I am sure Allen and AP had that going in Minny a couple of years.  Meant nothing.

      Too bad they had a big, steaming pile of dog turd at the QB position and were poorly coached.

      No question.  Point being, you can be great at running the ball and sacking the QB and still be an average football team. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9128

      If we have the NFLs leading sacker and a 1400 yard back, I don't know how you can say that we couldn't win the division. It's like they didn't think about how their statements would actually impact the games.

      Not to be negative but I am sure Allen and AP had that going in Minny a couple of years.  Meant nothing.

      Too bad they had a big, steaming pile of dog turd at the QB position and were poorly coached.

      No question.  Point being, you can be great at running the ball and sacking the QB and still be an average football team.

      I agree.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 391

      If we have the NFLs leading sacker and a 1400 yard back, I don't know how you can say that we couldn't win the division. It's like they didn't think about how their statements would actually impact the games.

      Not to be negative but I am sure Allen and AP had that going in Minny a couple of years.  Meant nothing.

      Fair point. I wasn't suggesting those things can win a division if the rest of your team sucks. But as far as off season predictions go, if theyre going to give me those two facts how can they then say there is no shot we win the division.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      If we have the NFLs leading sacker and a 1400 yard back, I don't know how you can say that we couldn't win the division. It's like they didn't think about how their statements would actually impact the games.

      Not to be negative but I am sure Allen and AP had that going in Minny a couple of years.  Meant nothing.

      Fair point. I wasn't suggesting those things can win a division if the rest of your team sucks. But as far as off season predictions go, if theyre going to give me those two facts how can they then say there is no shot we win the division.

      Understood.  We have a tendency to get caught up in the excitement that the sack provides.  Fact is, Its better to have someone that pressures the QB and forces him to throw a pick than it is to have a sack master. I'd love to have Martin or our RB's get over 1400 yards though.  That opens up a ton for the passing game and keeps things balanced. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9128

      We have a tendency to get caught up in the excitement that the sack provides.  Fact is, Its better to have someone that pressures the QB and forces him to throw a pick than it is to have a sack master.

      I really think you hit the head on this one. We all love sacks. But, I care more about constant and consistent pressure that leads opposing QB's to have to adjust. That's what leads to mistakes.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      We have a tendency to get caught up in the excitement that the sack provides.  Fact is, Its better to have someone that pressures the QB and forces him to throw a pick than it is to have a sack master.

      I really think you hit the head on this one. We all love sacks. But, I care more about constant and consistent pressure that leads opposing QB's to have to adjust. That's what leads to mistakes.

      I have to say I have not seen much of Johnson's game but that's what most say about this guy is his ability to put pressure on the QB is stellar.  If Clayborn can figure out the opposite side we may force turnovers in most games. Tick........tick......tick........can't wait for this month to be over.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9128

      MJ, McCoy, and Clayborn will determine how far this defense goes.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 391

      If we have the NFLs leading sacker and a 1400 yard back, I don't know how you can say that we couldn't win the division. It's like they didn't think about how their statements would actually impact the games.

      Not to be negative but I am sure Allen and AP had that going in Minny a couple of years.  Meant nothing.

      Fair point. I wasn't suggesting those things can win a division if the rest of your team sucks. But as far as off season predictions go, if theyre going to give me those two facts how can they then say there is no shot we win the division.

      Understood.  We have a tendency to get caught up in the excitement that the sack provides.  Fact is, Its better to have someone that pressures the QB and forces him to throw a pick than it is to have a sack master. I'd love to have Martin or our RB's get over 1400 yards though.  That opens up a ton for the passing game and keeps things balanced.

      Agree 100%.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 10626

      fact_zps7ba4c11a.png

      Straight arm 101.Love it.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2015

      If we have the NFLs leading sacker and a 1400 yard back, I don't know how you can say that we couldn't win the division. It's like they didn't think about how their statements would actually impact the games.

      Not to be negative but I am sure Allen and AP had that going in Minny a couple of years.  Meant nothing.

      Too bad they had a big, steaming pile of dog turd at the QB position

      C'mon now, Freeman was only on their roster last year...

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 10626

      I expect Evans to have a nice season. But ROY might be a stretch.  One of those 1st round QB’s could come out strong.  Or Clowney does well, Sammy, or even a player no one is expecting to shine, will do enough to win the ROY award.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1550

      This entire article if fiction because none of it has happened yet. As for the NFC South – the biggest obstacle are the Saints. Falcons had a lot more problems than Julio going down and I think they’re still abysmal on defense. Carolina essentially took apart their NFC South Champion squad because their cap is in shambles. Defensively they’ll continue to be good (if Greg Hardy is motivated) and that will keep them in games but I don’t see them better than a six win team with that offense. Cam will be running for his life. New Orleans took some cap hits, too but as long as they have Brees that offense will be explosive and Rob Ryan's smoke and mirrors defense got stronger with Jarius Byrd (if he returns from injury). Saints will be tough to beat.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2962

      Evans has a decent shot, if he can be one of those rare rookie WRs who can get 1,000 yards then he has a good shot. I don't see us winning the division unless NO isn't as good as everyone seems to think they'll be. We can compete for a wild card spot, I think, but I expect NO to win 11 or 12 games this year.As far as sweeping a division opponent I think we can sweep Atlanta or Carolina. Atlanta will probably improve a good bit but I think we're a better team. Having Hardy miss our week one game helps us a lot in our quest for sweeping the panties.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2603

      It's fiction to believe glennon is a good qb.

      I'm just focusing on: It's fiction to believe Glennon will be starting week 1.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      It's fiction to believe glennon is a good qb.

      I'm just focusing on: It's fiction to believe Glennon will be starting week 1.

      Hopefully you will still root for the team. Glennon will be your starter unless injured week one.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2603

      It's fiction to believe glennon is a good qb.

      I'm just focusing on: It's fiction to believe Glennon will be starting week 1.

      Hopefully you will still root for the team. Glennon will be your starter unless injured week one.

      It's good you don't waiver from your position as misguided as you may be. :)

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1550

      It's fiction to believe glennon is a good qb.

      I'm just focusing on: It's fiction to believe Glennon will be starting week 1.

      Hopefully you will still root for the team. Glennon will be your starter unless injured week one.

      It's good you don't waiver from your position as misguided as you may be. :)

      Yeah but I guarantee when McCown starts week one, he'll be springloaded for negativity. We hope you'll still be a fan when your golden boy is riding the pine. Then again, there's always hope McCown has a bad game or gets hurt - then the Napoleon Cannon will come in and save us.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      It's fiction to believe glennon is a good qb.

      I'm just focusing on: It's fiction to believe Glennon will be starting week 1.

      Hopefully you will still root for the team. Glennon will be your starter unless injured week one.

      It's good you don't waiver from your position as misguided as you may be. :)

      Yeah but I guarantee when McCown starts week one, he'll be springloaded for negativity. We hope you'll still be a fan when your golden boy is riding the pine. Then again, there's always hope McCown has a bad game or gets hurt - then the Napoleon Cannon will come in and save us.

      I agreed to take the season off if Glennon is not our starter week one.  Can't do much negative if I'm not on here.  The logical conclusion to the pre-season evaluation will have Glennon under center.  You'd have to be in denial to not see it.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2594

      I agreed to take the season off if Glennon is not our starter week one. 

      Why, Mike?  You can give us live updates from the bench

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9128

      And you’re conclusion is based off your clear bias for a certain player. You care more about the name on the back of the jersey than the greater good for the team.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      And you're conclusion is based off your clear bias for a certain player. You care more about the name on the back of the jersey than the greater good for the team.

      Nope, from the beginning, until the end, I am a Bucs fan.  If McCown is named the starter I will root like hell for him.  My stance is more about opening peoples eyes to the fact that Glennon is in a better position to be the starter than McCown is all things being equal.  It's amazing how some will let the media make up their mind for them instead of looking at sound football/life logic.  McCown is not a great player to be your starting QB - we know that to be true based on years of ineptitude under center and bouncing around from various teams/jobs over the past 14 years.  Glennon did not have the best rookie season but did some nice things and even set some records - he's 24 and he's who any franchise would choose to go with if given a proper evaluation of the two. 

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    • Anonymous

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      I am using football logic. And that’s why I believe there will be a great QB battle coming up.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1166

      “The Falcons had a terrible season last year after injuries hampered their receiving corps and Steven Jackson was a huge bust. The Falcons really need Julio Jones and Rodney White to stay healthy this year if they want a shot at taking the division away from the Saints.”Who is Rodney White? ?

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      Like Dangerfiled – no respect.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2603

      And you're conclusion is based off your clear bias for a certain player. You care more about the name on the back of the jersey than the greater good for the team.

      Nope, from the beginning, until the end, I am a Bucs fan.  If McCown is named the starter I will root like hell for him.

      Lovie already did that and you offered no support. Some excuse about preseason.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      And you're conclusion is based off your clear bias for a certain player. You care more about the name on the back of the jersey than the greater good for the team.

      Nope, from the beginning, until the end, I am a Bucs fan.  If McCown is named the starter I will root like hell for him.

      Lovie already did that and you offered no support. Some excuse about preseason.

      If you believe that a starter has been named for our first game vs. Carolina on Sept. 7th than, I dont know what to tell you.

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    • brycen54

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      Post count: 636

        “If you believe that a starter has been named for our first game vs. Carolina on Sept. 7th than, I dont know what to tell you.”Seems that such circumstance has yet to stop you from trying.

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    • Anonymous

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        "If you believe that a starter has been named for our first game vs. Carolina on Sept. 7th than, I dont know what to tell you."Seems that such circumstance has yet to stop you from trying.

      Make up your own mind Ozy. 

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    • brycen54

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      Post count: 636

      I will. I'm just enjoying the irony of you not knowing what to say, yet unable to stop yourself from trying to say it. Such is the quandary that plagues a fish's tortured  soul.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2603

      And you're conclusion is based off your clear bias for a certain player. You care more about the name on the back of the jersey than the greater good for the team.

      Nope, from the beginning, until the end, I am a Bucs fan.  If McCown is named the starter I will root like hell for him.

      Lovie already did that and you offered no support. Some excuse about preseason.

      If you believe that a starter has been named for our first game vs. Carolina on Sept. 7th than, I dont know what to tell you.

      A starter has been named but it's subject to change like anything in life. As for right now I hope you enjoy eating crow since you don't root for the starter as claimed. You root for whomever you want regardless of their actual status and base it solely on your perception and opinions. Given the current situation you should be rooting for both of them as McCown had been named starter but you wish to see Glennon EARN that job over the course of the next 7 weeks. Instead you disregard reality and march solely based upon your own opinion on the subject. Why would you all of a sudden start supporting McCown in Sept if he's still the starter if you won't NOW? It doesn't make sense. I don't think anyone here knows what to tell you.

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    • Anonymous

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      I will. I'm just enjoying the irony of you not knowing what to say, yet unable to stop yourself from trying to say it. Such is the quandary that plagues a fish's tortured  soul.

      lolz!

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 642

      And you're conclusion is based off your clear bias for a certain player. You care more about the name on the back of the jersey than the greater good for the team.

      His conclusion may be based off a clear bias against certain player too.  Not everyone is sold on McCown.  His body of work IS a tad bit thin. No?Regardless, you are right, it is all about winning, I'll wait to season starts before getting emotional about the QB situation. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9128

      And you're conclusion is based off your clear bias for a certain player. You care more about the name on the back of the jersey than the greater good for the team.

      His conclusion may be based off a clear bias against certain player too.  Not everyone is sold on McCown.  His body of work IS a tad bit thin. No?Regardless, you are right, it is all about winning, I'll wait to season starts before getting emotional about the QB situation.

      That's my point. A few people on here are emotionally attached to Glennon. Which is fine, I guess. But, I don't care what name is on the jersey of our starting QB. Hell, it could be one of Java's ladyboys for all I care. Whoever wins the job is who I want starting.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      And you're conclusion is based off your clear bias for a certain player. You care more about the name on the back of the jersey than the greater good for the team.

      Nope, from the beginning, until the end, I am a Bucs fan.  If McCown is named the starter I will root like hell for him.

      Lovie already did that and you offered no support. Some excuse about preseason.

      If you believe that a starter has been named for our first game vs. Carolina on Sept. 7th than, I dont know what to tell you.

      A starter has been named but it's subject to change like anything in life. As for right now I hope you enjoy eating crow since you don't root for the starter as claimed. You root for whomever you want regardless of their actual status and base it solely on your perception and opinions. Given the current situation you should be rooting for both of them as McCown had been named starter but you wish to see Glennon EARN that job over the course of the next 7 weeks. Instead you disregard reality and march solely based upon your own opinion on the subject. Why would you all of a sudden start supporting McCown in Sept if he's still the starter if you won't NOW? It doesn't make sense. I don't think anyone here knows what to tell you.

      Soory I like to use the message boards for something other than **CENSORED**ing about the new jerseys or asking for a coaches head.  I like to look at what others are doing/believing in and find flaws in their logic.  It just so happens that most on this board were sold in a huge way that McCown is a great find for us in FA and he will come in and be this mobile/gunslinging/super leader.  Pardon me for looking a little closer and thinking that maybe he's more the QB he's been the previous 13 seasons than he was last year.  Glennon is a separate thing all together.  If you would just look at his stats, forget his name, the way he looks, the coach that drafted him do an honest comparison you'd be closer to looking at this like I do.  I will root for McCown if he is named the starter .  I have been here since '76 and I'm not dropping the Bucs now.  As for McCown being named the starter, I think everyone on this board is long enough in the tooth from a fan standpoint to realize no starter has been named other than to say McCown will start the first pre-season game. There will be a full blown battle in pre-season.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2603

      I will root for McCown if he is named the starter. As for McCown being named the starter, I think everyone on this board is long enough in the tooth from a fan standpoint to realize no starter has been named other than to say McCown will start the first pre-season game. There will be a full blown battle in pre-season.

      McCown is the starter until Lovie/Tedford says otherwise period. You can try to justify it anyway you want but it's a fact. Hopefully you can move past denial sometime soon. The reality is the job is McCown's to lose not Glennon's to win in 2014.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      I will root for McCown if he is named the starter. As for McCown being named the starter, I think everyone on this board is long enough in the tooth from a fan standpoint to realize no starter has been named other than to say McCown will start the first pre-season game. There will be a full blown battle in pre-season.

      McCown is the starter until Lovie/Tedford says otherwise period. You can try to justify it anyway you want but it's a fact. Hopefully you can move past denial sometime soon. The reality is the job is McCown's to lose not Glennon's to win in 2014.

      This is where I believe you are incorrect.  I think Glennon can win the job.  I won't bold this but all things being equal, you make a call on the second year QB with seasons of football in front of him over the 35 year old journeyman.  I'm not sure how anyone could think otherwise.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9891

      I will root for McCown if he is named the starter. As for McCown being named the starter, I think everyone on this board is long enough in the tooth from a fan standpoint to realize no starter has been named other than to say McCown will start the first pre-season game. There will be a full blown battle in pre-season.

      McCown is the starter until Lovie/Tedford says otherwise period. You can try to justify it anyway you want but it's a fact. Hopefully you can move past denial sometime soon. The reality is the job is McCown's to lose not Glennon's to win in 2014.

      This is where I believe you are incorrect.  I think Glennon can win the job.  I won't bold this but all things being equal, you make a call on the second year QB with seasons of football in front of him over the 35 year old journeyman.  I'm not sure how anyone could think otherwise.

      the missing bold?  I don't care which one wins, so long as he wins by performing like an above-average QB. That said though, the premise you provide is "all things being equal."  All things may be equal, but if we are being honest there is a fair amount of objective evidence that suggests all things are NOT equal at all . . . including McCown's contract, history with the HC, type of player, public pronouncements by the team, reporting by various outlets etc.  Glennon may win the job - again, that's fine so long as that means he plays better than last year's McCown -- but the reasoning is flawed if we start with "all things being equal" right now.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      I will root for McCown if he is named the starter. As for McCown being named the starter, I think everyone on this board is long enough in the tooth from a fan standpoint to realize no starter has been named other than to say McCown will start the first pre-season game. There will be a full blown battle in pre-season.

      McCown is the starter until Lovie/Tedford says otherwise period. You can try to justify it anyway you want but it's a fact. Hopefully you can move past denial sometime soon. The reality is the job is McCown's to lose not Glennon's to win in 2014.

      This is where I believe you are incorrect.  I think Glennon can win the job.  I won't bold this but all things being equal, you make a call on the second year QB with seasons of football in front of him over the 35 year old journeyman.  I'm not sure how anyone could think otherwise.

      the missing bold?  I don't care which one wins, so long as he wins by performing like an above-average QB. That said though, the premise you provide is "all things being equal."  All things may be equal, but if we are being honest there is a fair amount of objective evidence that suggests all things are NOT equal at all . . . including McCown's contract, history with the HC, type of player, public pronouncements by the team, reporting by various outlets etc.  Glennon may win the job - again, that's fine so long as that means he plays better than last year's McCown -- but the reasoning is flawed if we start with "all things being equal" right now.

      Outtside of the contract, which has proven to mean little over the years, these are nebulous articles regarding things being equal.  Lovie's history with McCown from a performance standpoint is not a great one.  Favorable things have been stated about both QBs (it's the off-season), ditto with various outlets. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      I will root for McCown if he is named the starter. As for McCown being named the starter, I think everyone on this board is long enough in the tooth from a fan standpoint to realize no starter has been named other than to say McCown will start the first pre-season game. There will be a full blown battle in pre-season.

      McCown is the starter until Lovie/Tedford says otherwise period. You can try to justify it anyway you want but it's a fact. Hopefully you can move past denial sometime soon. The reality is the job is McCown's to lose not Glennon's to win in 2014.

      This is where I believe you are incorrect.  I think Glennon can win the job.  I won't bold this but all things being equal, you make a call on the second year QB with seasons of football in front of him over the 35 year old journeyman.  I'm not sure how anyone could think otherwise.

      the missing bold?  I don't care which one wins, so long as he wins by performing like an above-average QB. That said though, the premise you provide is "all things being equal."  All things may be equal, but if we are being honest there is a fair amount of objective evidence that suggests all things are NOT equal at all . . . including McCown's contract, history with the HC, type of player, public pronouncements by the team, reporting by various outlets etc.  Glennon may win the job - again, that's fine so long as that means he plays better than last year's McCown -- but the reasoning is flawed if we start with "all things being equal" right now.

      Outtside of the contract, which has proven to mean little over the years, these are nebulous articles regarding things being equal.  Lovie's history with McCown from a performance standpoint is not a great one.  Favorable things have been stated about both QBs (it's the off-season), ditto with various outlets.

      Lovie didn't have to name a starter. He could have said it was an open competition but he elected to name McCown as the starter. All things aren't equal no matter how much you wish it.

      Please wait…

    • brycen54

      Participant
      Post count: 636

      “Lovie didn’t have to name a starter.”He didn't have to promise McCown the starting job to sign him? Or you don't know and you're just making crap up?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      I will root for McCown if he is named the starter. As for McCown being named the starter, I think everyone on this board is long enough in the tooth from a fan standpoint to realize no starter has been named other than to say McCown will start the first pre-season game. There will be a full blown battle in pre-season.

      McCown is the starter until Lovie/Tedford says otherwise period. You can try to justify it anyway you want but it's a fact. Hopefully you can move past denial sometime soon. The reality is the job is McCown's to lose not Glennon's to win in 2014.

      This is where I believe you are incorrect.  I think Glennon can win the job.  I won't bold this but all things being equal, you make a call on the second year QB with seasons of football in front of him over the 35 year old journeyman.  I'm not sure how anyone could think otherwise.

      the missing bold?  I don't care which one wins, so long as he wins by performing like an above-average QB. That said though, the premise you provide is "all things being equal."  All things may be equal, but if we are being honest there is a fair amount of objective evidence that suggests all things are NOT equal at all . . . including McCown's contract, history with the HC, type of player, public pronouncements by the team, reporting by various outlets etc.  Glennon may win the job - again, that's fine so long as that means he plays better than last year's McCown -- but the reasoning is flawed if we start with "all things being equal" right now.

      Outtside of the contract, which has proven to mean little over the years, these are nebulous articles regarding things being equal.  Lovie's history with McCown from a performance standpoint is not a great one.  Favorable things have been stated about both QBs (it's the off-season), ditto with various outlets.

      respectfully, I don't think its surprising to anyone that you discount the facts:"Outtside of the contract, which has proven to mean little over the years""nebulous articles""Lovie's history with McCown from a performance standpoint "but the very act of discounting suggest the premise ("all things being equal") is offagain, Glennon may win the job, but its not really fair to suggest he will because when "all things are equal" you go with the guy who has his career in front of him

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      respectfully, I don't think its surprising to anyone that you discount the facts:"Outtside of the contract, which has proven to mean little over the years""nebulous articles""Lovie's history with McCown from a performance standpoint "but the very act of discounting suggest the premise ("all things being equal") is off

      Love the personal shot Vin.  Thanks.  Contract - was referring to Matt Flynn's two years agoI'm not discounting - just stating that these things you mention dont go into assessing who is going to start.  The best QB in pre-season will be named the starter.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      "Lovie didn't have to name a starter."He didn't have to promise McCown the starting job to sign him? Or you don't know and you're just making crap up?

      No one is going to force Lovie into something he doesn't want to do period. He CHOOSE to sign McCown A) knowing he had to make him the starter or  b) was going to make him the starter anyways. Either way Lovie CHOOSE that path that lead to him naming McCown the starter.

      Please wait…

    • brycen54

      Participant
      Post count: 636

      So, you pulled it out of your ass. Understood.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      So, you pulled it out of your ass. Understood.

      Do whatever you want with the FACTS. If you want to shove them up your ass I can't stop you. :)

      Please wait…

    • brycen54

      Participant
      Post count: 636

      You're confused again. Crap you make up does not qualify as fact, even when it is unnecessarily capitalized drama queen style. You don't know what McCown was promised, and claiming you do makes you a liar.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      You're confused again. Crap you make up does not qualify as fact, even when it is unnecessarily capitalized drama queen style. You don't know what McCown was promised, and claiming you do makes you a liar.

      You're confused again. Reading comprehension is at an all-time low here. The Florida educational system has failed you badly. Please do keep going I'd love to see more if it in action. *waits*

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      respectfully, I don't think its surprising to anyone that you discount the facts:"Outtside of the contract, which has proven to mean little over the years""nebulous articles""Lovie's history with McCown from a performance standpoint "but the very act of discounting suggest the premise ("all things being equal") is off

      Love the personal shot Vin.  Thanks.  Contract - was referring to Matt Flynn's two years agoI'm not discounting - just stating that these things you mention dont go into assessing who is going to start.  The best QB in pre-season will be named the starter.

      Just to be clear, it wasn't a personal shot.  I was saying that "10lbbass" is, if nothing else, an unabashed Glennon supporter and these boards are LOADED with posts from 10lbbass that either tell one side of the story or ignore one side of the story so its not surprising to anyone who can read and who has been alive and on these boards over that past few weeks that the response would be to DISCOUNT the facts as opposed, for example, to saying "yes those are facts but here are others you did not consider" (get the point?) or "um yes, things are not really equal right now but . . ." So yes, you are discounting, I even put the discounting in bold.  Now, this new comment (in bold above) is different from the comment I addressed and misplaced: "stating that these things you mention dont go into assessing who is going to start.  The best QB in pre-season will be named the starter" .  First, I did not say they went into assessing who is going to start, I said they undercut your premise that "all things are equal."  Second, you did not say that the best QB in the pre-season would be the start, you said that "all things being equal" you go with the younger guy who has a career in front of him . . .that is what I responded to.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      ^^^^^^This.  So many on here have a view of Lovie and McCown as neighbors and beer buddies.  He’s a QB that whose leadership Lovie respects.  Other than that, we have no idea what their relationship is like. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      10lb is betting the bank on Glennon starting week 1.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      ^^^^^^This.  So many on here have a view of Lovie and McCown as neighbors and beer buddies.  He's a QB that whose leadership Lovie respects.  Other than that, we have no idea what their relationship is like.

      "During the press conference to announce McCown's signing, Smith was asked if the 34-year-old journeyman would be his starter heading toward the 2014 season.Smith's reply: "Yes, he is.""

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      respectfully, I don't think its surprising to anyone that you discount the facts:"Outtside of the contract, which has proven to mean little over the years""nebulous articles""Lovie's history with McCown from a performance standpoint "but the very act of discounting suggest the premise ("all things being equal") is off

      Love the personal shot Vin.  Thanks.  Contract - was referring to Matt Flynn's two years agoI'm not discounting - just stating that these things you mention dont go into assessing who is going to start.  The best QB in pre-season will be named the starter.

      Just to be clear, it wasn't a personal shot.  I was saying that "10lbbass" is, if nothing else, an unabashed Glennon supporter and these boards are LOADED with posts from 10lbbass that either tell one side of the story or ignore one side of the story so its not surprising to anyone who can read and who has been alive and on these boards over that past few weeks that the response would be to DISCOUNT the facts as opposed, for example, to saying "yes those are facts but here are others you did not consider" (get the point?) or "um yes, things are not really equal right now but . . ." So yes, you are discounting, I even put the discounting in bold.  Now, this new comment (in bold above) is different from the comment I addressed and misplaced: "stating that these things you mention dont go into assessing who is going to start.  The best QB in pre-season will be named the starter" .  First, I did not say they went into assessing who is going to start, I said they undercut your premise that "all things are equal."  Second, you did not say that the best QB in the pre-season would be the start, you said that "all things being equal" you go with the younger guy who has a career in front of him . . .that is what I responded to.

      My initial point is we dont know the facts.  None of us do,  We know what we read but that has less and less value every day as it relates to actual facts. Fox/CNN is daily/hourly proof of that.  If you were the coach, the younger guy would start 10 times out of 10.  It's interesting that you think there can't be equal footing going into camp.  I consider everything when making a prediction - this one is just super clear to me.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      If you were the coach, the younger guy would start 10 times out of 10.  It's interesting that you think there can't be equal footing going into camp.  I consider everything when making a prediction - this one is just super clear to me.

      If McCown and Glennon were equal you go with Glennon no questions asked because you can get more years out of him for a far cheaper price. Lovie went with McCown so stuff isn't equal up to this point.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      If you were the coach, the younger guy would start 10 times out of 10.  It's interesting that you think there can't be equal footing going into camp.  I consider everything when making a prediction - this one is just super clear to me.

      If McCown and Glennon were equal you go with Glennon no questions asked because you can get more years out of him for a far cheaper price. Lovie went with McCown so stuff isn't equal up to this point.

      I sure hope Glennon can handle this uphill battle.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      My initial point is we dont know the facts.  None of us do . . . .If you were the coach, the younger guy would start 10 times out of 10.  It's interesting that you think there can't be equal footing going into camp.  I consider everything when making a prediction - this one is just super clear to me.

      maybe you don't see the disconnect between those statements? On the one hand you are saying we do not know the facts while on the other you are setting up an argument based on the premise that "all things are equal"  when there are UNDISPUTED facts (including, for goodness sake, the HC saying McCown is the starter -lol) to the complete contrary. I never said "there can't be equal footing going into camp"  I said the FACTS don't support the notion that they are equal footing NOW . .  which was the premise you provided. The strawman is a pretty weak response too.Look, there's two different things at play here:  one is your prediction (Glennon will be the starter week 1), the other is the arguments that you use to support the prediction.  Your prediction may be correct, but that doesn't change the fact that some of the arguments you put forward absolutely suck, the "all things being equal"  argument being one of the worst.  The reason some of the arguments stink is because they are at odd with any REASONABLE view of the facts. If anything, you should be saying "I know most indications are that McCown is the starter but here's why Glennon will be . . ."

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      If you were the coach, the younger guy would start 10 times out of 10.  It's interesting that you think there can't be equal footing going into camp.  I consider everything when making a prediction - this one is just super clear to me.

      If McCown and Glennon were equal you go with Glennon no questions asked because you can get more years out of him for a far cheaper price. Lovie went with McCown so stuff isn't equal up to this point.

      I sure hope Glennon can handle this uphill battle.

      If he does enough to dethrown McCown to start week 1 and does even average for the season that will end any further debate on who should be leading the team. I wish him luck.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2962

      Hell, I’d love to see Glennon win the battle and start week one, it means the younger guy is the better player and it means we have a quality backup for a couple years. It also means if Glennon doesn’t cut it then next year we KNOW it’s time to take a first round QB.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Hell, I'd love to see Glennon win the battle and start week one, it means the younger guy is the better player and it means we have a quality backup for a couple years. It also means if Glennon doesn't cut it then next year we KNOW it's time to take a first round QB.

      right, so long as he beats out last year's McCown or better

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      My initial point is we dont know the facts.  None of us do . . . .If you were the coach, the younger guy would start 10 times out of 10.  It's interesting that you think there can't be equal footing going into camp.  I consider everything when making a prediction - this one is just super clear to me.

      maybe you don't see the disconnect between those statements? On the one hand you are saying we do not know the facts while on the other you are setting up an argument based on the premise that "all things are equal"  when there are UNDISPUTED facts (including, for goodness sake, the HC saying McCown is the starter -lol) to the complete contrary. I never said "there can't be equal footing going into camp"  I said the FACTS don't support the notion that they are equal footing NOW . .  which was the premise you provided. The strawman is a pretty weak response too.Look, there's two different things at play here:  one is your prediction (Glennon will be the starter week 1), the other is the arguments that you use to support the prediction.  Your prediction may be correct, but that doesn't change the fact that some of the arguments you put forward absolutely suck, the "all things being equal"  argument being one of the worst.  The reason some of the arguments stink is because they are at odd with any REASONABLE view of the facts. If anything, you should be saying "I know most indications are that McCown is the starter but here's why Glennon will be . . ."

      Thanks for your tips on debate.  I really appreciate the insight.  How about "most indications are that McCown was brought in here to compete for the starting QB job."  It's easy to fill in the rest with sound bites and mis-information but so far what I have stated is truly all we know.  If you are a coach making an assessment of two players you are putting them on equal ground.  Whether that is in your head or on the practice field, this is what you are paid to do. My point in saying "all things being equal" is that if they are at the end of pre-season - Glennon is your starter.  Simple.  The lead up to that and the competition that follows are irrelevant. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Hell, I'd love to see Glennon win the battle and start week one, it means the younger guy is the better player and it means we have a quality backup for a couple years. It also means if Glennon doesn't cut it then next year we KNOW it's time to take a first round QB.

      Holy Cow!  Seanbassak could be coach one day.  This is exactly the whole shooting match in one sentence.

      Please wait…

    • brycen54

      Participant
      Post count: 636

        “The Florida educational system has failed you badly.”It certainly did. I suppose the fact that it's around 2000 miles away could have played some role in that. Continue with your clueless babbling.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2962

      Hell, I'd love to see Glennon win the battle and start week one, it means the younger guy is the better player and it means we have a quality backup for a couple years. It also means if Glennon doesn't cut it then next year we KNOW it's time to take a first round QB.

      Holy Cow!  Seanbassak could be coach one day.  This is exactly the whole shooting match in one sentence.

      :D I'm kind of a big deal.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Hell, I'd love to see Glennon win the battle and start week one, it means the younger guy is the better player and it means we have a quality backup for a couple years. It also means if Glennon doesn't cut it then next year we KNOW it's time to take a first round QB.

      Holy Cow!  Seanbassak could be coach one day.  This is exactly the whole shooting match in one sentence.

      :D I'm kind of a big deal.

      You should be honored. Lol.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

        "The Florida educational system has failed you badly."It certainly did. I suppose the fact that it's around 2000 miles away could have played some role in that. Continue with your clueless babbling.

      Of course your 2,000 miles away. I'd guess in California right? I keep forgetting this is the internet and you can just make **CENSORED** up as you go. Continue with your clueless babbling. LOL @ ILLUM

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      My initial point is we dont know the facts.  None of us do . . . .If you were the coach, the younger guy would start 10 times out of 10.  It's interesting that you think there can't be equal footing going into camp.  I consider everything when making a prediction - this one is just super clear to me.

      maybe you don't see the disconnect between those statements? On the one hand you are saying we do not know the facts while on the other you are setting up an argument based on the premise that "all things are equal"  when there are UNDISPUTED facts (including, for goodness sake, the HC saying McCown is the starter -lol) to the complete contrary. I never said "there can't be equal footing going into camp"  I said the FACTS don't support the notion that they are equal footing NOW . .  which was the premise you provided. The strawman is a pretty weak response too.Look, there's two different things at play here:  one is your prediction (Glennon will be the starter week 1), the other is the arguments that you use to support the prediction.  Your prediction may be correct, but that doesn't change the fact that some of the arguments you put forward absolutely suck, the "all things being equal"  argument being one of the worst.  The reason some of the arguments stink is because they are at odd with any REASONABLE view of the facts. If anything, you should be saying "I know most indications are that McCown is the starter but here's why Glennon will be . . ."

      Thanks for your tips on debate.  I really appreciate the insight.  How about "most indications are that McCown was brought in here to compete for the starting QB job."  It's easy to fill in the rest with sound bites and mis-information but so far what I have stated is truly all we know.  If you are a coach making an assessment of two players you are putting them on equal ground.  Whether that is in your head or on the practice field, this is what you are paid to do. My point in saying "all things being equal" is that if they are at the end of pre-season - Glennon is your starter.  Simple.  The lead up to that and the competition that follows are irrelevant.

      First, you sure are sensitive. When I used the word "argument" I was not saying anything about your debate skills. lol. I was talking about the reasoning you offered to support your conclusion. Second, how would it be fair to say, as you suggest, that ""most indications are that McCown was brought in here to compete for the starting QB job"  when Lovie actually said THIS:During the press conference to announce McCown's signing, Smith was asked if the 34-year-old journeyman would be his starter heading toward the 2014 season.Smith's reply: "Yes, he is."Third, pre-season is not the only competition, but I agree with you that if at the end of pre-season all things are equal you may go with Glennon for the reasons you stated.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      My initial point is we dont know the facts.  None of us do . . . .If you were the coach, the younger guy would start 10 times out of 10.  It's interesting that you think there can't be equal footing going into camp.  I consider everything when making a prediction - this one is just super clear to me.

      maybe you don't see the disconnect between those statements? On the one hand you are saying we do not know the facts while on the other you are setting up an argument based on the premise that "all things are equal"  when there are UNDISPUTED facts (including, for goodness sake, the HC saying McCown is the starter -lol) to the complete contrary. I never said "there can't be equal footing going into camp"  I said the FACTS don't support the notion that they are equal footing NOW . .  which was the premise you provided. The strawman is a pretty weak response too.Look, there's two different things at play here:  one is your prediction (Glennon will be the starter week 1), the other is the arguments that you use to support the prediction.  Your prediction may be correct, but that doesn't change the fact that some of the arguments you put forward absolutely suck, the "all things being equal"  argument being one of the worst.  The reason some of the arguments stink is because they are at odd with any REASONABLE view of the facts. If anything, you should be saying "I know most indications are that McCown is the starter but here's why Glennon will be . . ."

      Thanks for your tips on debate.  I really appreciate the insight.  How about "most indications are that McCown was brought in here to compete for the starting QB job."  It's easy to fill in the rest with sound bites and mis-information but so far what I have stated is truly all we know.  If you are a coach making an assessment of two players you are putting them on equal ground.  Whether that is in your head or on the practice field, this is what you are paid to do. My point in saying "all things being equal" is that if they are at the end of pre-season - Glennon is your starter.  Simple.  The lead up to that and the competition that follows are irrelevant.

      First, you sure are sensitive. When I used the word "argument" I was not saying anything about your debate skills. lol. I was talking about the reasoning you offered to support your conclusion. Second, how would it be fair to say, as you suggest, that ""most indications are that McCown was brought in here to compete for the starting QB job"  when Lovie actually said THIS:During the press conference to announce McCown's signing, Smith was asked if the 34-year-old journeyman would be his starter heading toward the 2014 season.Smith's reply: "Yes, he is."Third, pre-season is not the only competition, but I agree with you that if at the end of pre-season all things are equal you may go with Glennon for the reasons you stated.

      Lovie said a lot of things.  That particular sentence is empty in the context of when and where it was asked. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      My initial point is we dont know the facts.  None of us do . . . .If you were the coach, the younger guy would start 10 times out of 10.  It's interesting that you think there can't be equal footing going into camp.  I consider everything when making a prediction - this one is just super clear to me.

      maybe you don't see the disconnect between those statements? On the one hand you are saying we do not know the facts while on the other you are setting up an argument based on the premise that "all things are equal"  when there are UNDISPUTED facts (including, for goodness sake, the HC saying McCown is the starter -lol) to the complete contrary. I never said "there can't be equal footing going into camp"  I said the FACTS don't support the notion that they are equal footing NOW . .  which was the premise you provided. The strawman is a pretty weak response too.Look, there's two different things at play here:  one is your prediction (Glennon will be the starter week 1), the other is the arguments that you use to support the prediction.  Your prediction may be correct, but that doesn't change the fact that some of the arguments you put forward absolutely suck, the "all things being equal"  argument being one of the worst.  The reason some of the arguments stink is because they are at odd with any REASONABLE view of the facts. If anything, you should be saying "I know most indications are that McCown is the starter but here's why Glennon will be . . ."

      Thanks for your tips on debate.  I really appreciate the insight.  How about "most indications are that McCown was brought in here to compete for the starting QB job."  It's easy to fill in the rest with sound bites and mis-information but so far what I have stated is truly all we know.  If you are a coach making an assessment of two players you are putting them on equal ground.  Whether that is in your head or on the practice field, this is what you are paid to do. My point in saying "all things being equal" is that if they are at the end of pre-season - Glennon is your starter.  Simple.  The lead up to that and the competition that follows are irrelevant.

      First, you sure are sensitive. When I used the word "argument" I was not saying anything about your debate skills. lol. I was talking about the reasoning you offered to support your conclusion. Second, how would it be fair to say, as you suggest, that ""most indications are that McCown was brought in here to compete for the starting QB job"  when Lovie actually said THIS:During the press conference to announce McCown's signing, Smith was asked if the 34-year-old journeyman would be his starter heading toward the 2014 season.Smith's reply: "Yes, he is."Third, pre-season is not the only competition, but I agree with you that if at the end of pre-season all things are equal you may go with Glennon for the reasons you stated.

      Lovie said a lot of things.  That particular sentence is empty in the context of when and where it was asked.

      '"... Don't take anything from Glennon; he's just only in his second year," Casillas told WEPN-FM in New York, via Joebucsfan.com. "But McCown looks like he's played a couple of years in this game."'If other players share this feeling it will be tough to remove McCown as the leader without backsliding.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      '"... Don't take anything from Glennon; he's just only in his second year," Casillas told WEPN-FM in New York, via Joebucsfan.com. "But McCown looks like he's played a couple of years in this game."'If other players share this feeling it will be tough to remove McCown as the leader without backsliding.

      Feelings will never persuade a coach in making an assessment.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      If the media reports good things about McCown, it’s not true and you need to stop listening and form your own opinion. Now, if it’s good stuff about Glennon; they know what they’re talking about.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      My initial point is we dont know the facts.  None of us do . . . .If you were the coach, the younger guy would start 10 times out of 10.  It's interesting that you think there can't be equal footing going into camp.  I consider everything when making a prediction - this one is just super clear to me.

      maybe you don't see the disconnect between those statements? On the one hand you are saying we do not know the facts while on the other you are setting up an argument based on the premise that "all things are equal"  when there are UNDISPUTED facts (including, for goodness sake, the HC saying McCown is the starter -lol) to the complete contrary. I never said "there can't be equal footing going into camp"  I said the FACTS don't support the notion that they are equal footing NOW . .  which was the premise you provided. The strawman is a pretty weak response too.Look, there's two different things at play here:  one is your prediction (Glennon will be the starter week 1), the other is the arguments that you use to support the prediction.  Your prediction may be correct, but that doesn't change the fact that some of the arguments you put forward absolutely suck, the "all things being equal"  argument being one of the worst.  The reason some of the arguments stink is because they are at odd with any REASONABLE view of the facts. If anything, you should be saying "I know most indications are that McCown is the starter but here's why Glennon will be . . ."

      Thanks for your tips on debate.  I really appreciate the insight.  How about "most indications are that McCown was brought in here to compete for the starting QB job."  It's easy to fill in the rest with sound bites and mis-information but so far what I have stated is truly all we know.  If you are a coach making an assessment of two players you are putting them on equal ground.  Whether that is in your head or on the practice field, this is what you are paid to do. My point in saying "all things being equal" is that if they are at the end of pre-season - Glennon is your starter.  Simple.  The lead up to that and the competition that follows are irrelevant.

      First, you sure are sensitive. When I used the word "argument" I was not saying anything about your debate skills. lol. I was talking about the reasoning you offered to support your conclusion. Second, how would it be fair to say, as you suggest, that ""most indications are that McCown was brought in here to compete for the starting QB job"  when Lovie actually said THIS:During the press conference to announce McCown's signing, Smith was asked if the 34-year-old journeyman would be his starter heading toward the 2014 season.Smith's reply: "Yes, he is."Third, pre-season is not the only competition, but I agree with you that if at the end of pre-season all things are equal you may go with Glennon for the reasons you stated.

      Lovie said a lot of things.  That particular sentence is empty in the context of when and where it was asked.

      lol, okay, fair enough but you are essentially saying that we should ignore the HC's own words and accept as fact 10lbbass' words. That was my earlier point. There are facts.  You might not like the facts, but there are facts and one FACT is that Lovie said McCown is the starter.  Did Lovie ever say Glennon was the starter? He did not . . and that is a FACT too, right?again, you may be right about the prediction because a lot can happen between now and then, but the support at this point is a real stretch

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      '"... Don't take anything from Glennon; he's just only in his second year," Casillas told WEPN-FM in New York, via Joebucsfan.com. "But McCown looks like he's played a couple of years in this game."'If other players share this feeling it will be tough to remove McCown as the leader without backsliding.

      Feelings will never persuade a coach in making an assessment.

      unless the coach has the same "feelings" based on his own observations . . . lol

      Please wait…

    • brycen54

      Participant
      Post count: 636

      “Of course your 2,000 miles away.”The contraction of you and are is you're. Please continue with your smack about my education. It's really going well.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      "Of course your 2,000 miles away."The contraction of you and are is you're. Please continue with your smack about my education. It's really going well.

      That's the best you could come up with? *facepalm*

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      Feelings will never persuade a coach in making an assessment.

      If the players won't follow someone the coach would have to be an idiot to promote them into that position. Feel free to keep trying to justify it though. It's pretty entertaining. :)

      Please wait…

    • brycen54

      Participant
      Post count: 636

      "I keep forgetting this is the internet"

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      Riddle: This is a general post not directed at anyone or anything because I didn’t quote or reply to anyone. Who am I?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Riddle: This is a general post not directed at anyone or anything because I didn't quote or reply to anyone. Who am I?

      Freeman after 2:00am ?

      Please wait…

    • brycen54

      Participant
      Post count: 636

      Anyone who cares, speak up.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      If the media reports good things about McCown, it's not true and you need to stop listening and form your own opinion. Now, if it's good stuff about Glennon; they know what they're talking about.

      Nope - all media bouquets  are disregarded until the pads are put on. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      If the media reports good things about McCown, it's not true and you need to stop listening and form your own opinion. Now, if it's good stuff about Glennon; they know what they're talking about.

      Nope - all media bouquets  are disregarded until the pads are put on.

      Doesn't matter. Glennon is a lock, right?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      If the media reports good things about McCown, it's not true and you need to stop listening and form your own opinion. Now, if it's good stuff about Glennon; they know what they're talking about.

      Nope - all media bouquets  are disregarded until the pads are put on.

      Doesn't matter. Glennon is a lock, right?

      I think so. Not sure how he couldn't be.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      If the media reports good things about McCown, it's not true and you need to stop listening and form your own opinion. Now, if it's good stuff about Glennon; they know what they're talking about.

      Nope - all media bouquets  are disregarded until the pads are put on.

      some "bouquets" seem to be slipping through

      I think it's interesting that they think Tedford makes the QB decision...But, there's other stuff in the article too.

      Because it's Tedford's decision plays huge into Glennon's favor.  Tedford is the one that insisted they didn't need to draft at QB after evaluating Glennon.  Tedford loves his approach to the game and his work ethic.

      Did he say that?

      http://espn.go.com/blog/tampa-bay-buccaneers/post/_/id/2939/coordinator-impressed-with-mike-glennon

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      Riddle: This is a general post not directed at anyone or anything because I didn't quote or reply to anyone. Who am I?

      Freeman after 2:00am ?

      May as well be. Illum isn't much better. :P

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      If the media reports good things about McCown, it's not true and you need to stop listening and form your own opinion. Now, if it's good stuff about Glennon; they know what they're talking about.

      Nope - all media bouquets  are disregarded until the pads are put on.

      Doesn't matter. Glennon is a lock, right?

      I think so. Not sure how he couldn't be.

      I'll go with, hmm...I don't know; If McCown outplays him. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      If the media reports good things about McCown, it's not true and you need to stop listening and form your own opinion. Now, if it's good stuff about Glennon; they know what they're talking about.

      Nope - all media bouquets  are disregarded until the pads are put on.

      Doesn't matter. Glennon is a lock, right?

      I think so. Not sure how he couldn't be.

      I'll go with, hmm...I don't know; If McCown outplays him.

      I'll go with,hmmmm.......not sure how that happens. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      If the media reports good things about McCown, it's not true and you need to stop listening and form your own opinion. Now, if it's good stuff about Glennon; they know what they're talking about.

      Nope - all media bouquets  are disregarded until the pads are put on.

      Doesn't matter. Glennon is a lock, right?

      I think so. Not sure how he couldn't be.

      I'll go with, hmm...I don't know; If McCown outplays him.

      I'll go with,hmmmm.......not sure how that happens.

      I'll go with, hmmmm......it's been happening in camp already! If you surpass the denial stage of grief you'll be a better better off.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Is camp going on right now??? Some one hurry and provide me a link…..

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      Is camp going on right now??? Some one hurry and provide me a link.....

      You never provide links to shit when asked yet you want others to do that for you? The irony!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Is camp going on right now??? Some one hurry and provide me a link.....

      You never provide links to **CENSORED** when asked yet you want others to do that for you? The irony!

      I dont think that's irony.  I happen to know, according to the camp schedule that camp has not resumed.  No denial since according to the stats - Glennon finished with better stats than McCown on the last days of OTAs. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      Glennon finished with better stats than McCown on the last days of OTAs.

      Where's that link?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Glennon finished with better stats than McCown on the last days of OTAs.

      Baller.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      Glennon finished with better stats than McCown on the last days of OTAs.

      Where's that link? We're waiting still.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Glennon finished with better stats than McCown on the last days of OTAs.

      Where's that link? We're waiting still.

      The information was right here on PR.  Glennon went like 10/11 or something ridiculous and McCown went like 7/11.  Holy cow.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      I remember the article . Straight wave riding that day.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      Glennon finished with better stats than McCown on the last days of OTAs.

      Where's that link? We're waiting still.

      The information was right here on PR.  Glennon went like 10/11 or something ridiculous and McCown went like 7/11.  Holy cow.

      Still waiting........

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      It was actually Glennon going 9/11 and McCown 8-12 .https://www.pewterreport.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=9851:Inside%20Bucs%20Mini-Camp%206-11:%20DBs%20Make%20Plays%20On%20Wednesday10lb's point still remains though . Glennon slightly better that day. Don't be mad Mayhem.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      It was actually Glennon going 9/11 and McCown 8-12 .https://www.pewterreport.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=9851:Inside%20Bucs%20Mini-Camp%206-11:%20DBs%20Make%20Plays%20On%20Wednesday10lb's point still remains though . Glennon slightly better that day. Don't be mad Mayhem.

      He claimed collectively he was better not individually one day. Are you saying he's twisting stuff again? SOP for the Red Board though so not very shocking.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      It was actually Glennon going 9/11 and McCown 8-12 .https://www.pewterreport.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=9851:Inside%20Bucs%20Mini-Camp%206-11:%20DBs%20Make%20Plays%20On%20Wednesday10lb's point still remains though . Glennon slightly better that day. Don't be mad Mayhem.

      He claimed collectively he was better not individually one day. Are you saying he's twisting stuff again? SOP for the Red Board though so not very shocking.

      No I said he was better on the last day of OTA's.  So our most recent evaluation of him he played better than McCown. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      It was actually Glennon going 9/11 and McCown 8-12 .https://www.pewterreport.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=9851:Inside%20Bucs%20Mini-Camp%206-11:%20DBs%20Make%20Plays%20On%20Wednesday10lb's point still remains though . Glennon slightly better that day. Don't be mad Mayhem.

      He claimed collectively he was better not individually one day. Are you saying he's twisting stuff again? SOP for the Red Board though so not very shocking.

      No I said he was better on the last day of OTA's.  So our most recent evaluation of him he played better than McCown.

      I'm sure this was just a typo right?

      Glennon finished with better stats than McCown on the last days of OTAs.

      Plural!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      It was actually Glennon going 9/11 and McCown 8-12 .https://www.pewterreport.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=9851:Inside%20Bucs%20Mini-Camp%206-11:%20DBs%20Make%20Plays%20On%20Wednesday10lb's point still remains though . Glennon slightly better that day. Don't be mad Mayhem.

      He claimed collectively he was better not individually one day. Are you saying he's twisting stuff again? SOP for the Red Board though so not very shocking.

      No I said he was better on the last day of OTA's.  So our most recent evaluation of him he played better than McCown.

      I'm sure this was just a typo right?

      Glennon finished with better stats than McCown on the last days of OTAs.

      Plural!

      Overall he had better stats in the OTAs - there is no denying that.  In the end, it's all the same.  Glennon wins the starting job for day 1 Sept. 7th.  Anything prior to that is complete and utter nonsense and you know it.  You wanted proof where Glennon was better and it was given to you even though it was explained clearly on the very website we are messaging on.  If you want McCown, root for McCown, if you want Glennon root for Glennon. If you dont care and just want the Bucs to win.........do that. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      Glennon wins the starting job for day 1 Sept. 7th.

      All want to know is how much real money you have riding on that?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Glennon wins the starting job for day 1 Sept. 7th.

      All want to know is how much real money you have riding on that?

      No real money yet. Won't place any money on anything until August 1st.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      10lb, this is why you get a bit of grief on these boards:

      No I said he was better on the last day of OTA's.  So our most recent evaluation of him he played better than McCown.

      Glennon finished with better stats than McCown on the last days of OTAs.

      and instead of just saying that you mis-typed, you just breeze right by on to a new twist

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      10lb, this is why you get a bit of grief on these boards:

      No I said he was better on the last day of OTA's.  So our most recent evaluation of him he played better than McCown.

      Glennon finished with better stats than McCown on the last days of OTAs.

      and instead of just saying that you mis-typed, you just breeze right by on to a new twist

      Let's go back and correct all the typos on this board.  Solid idea.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      10lb, this is why you get a bit of grief on these boards:

      No I said he was better on the last day of OTA's.  So our most recent evaluation of him he played better than McCown.

      Glennon finished with better stats than McCown on the last days of OTAs.

      and instead of just saying that you mis-typed, you just breeze right by on to a new twist

      Let's go back and correct all the typos on this board.  Solid idea.

      it . . was . . .a  . . .  typo. . . . .gotcha

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      10lb, this is why you get a bit of grief on these boards:

      No I said he was better on the last day of OTA's.  So our most recent evaluation of him he played better than McCown.

      Glennon finished with better stats than McCown on the last days of OTAs.

      and instead of just saying that you mis-typed, you just breeze right by on to a new twist

      Let's go back and correct all the typos on this board.  Solid idea.

      it . . was . . .a  . . .  typo. . . . .gotcha

      Once again, Vin vs. himself.  The last day of OTA's Glennon was near perfect.  By performing so well on the last day of OTA's, his overall stats were better than McCown's for all of OTAs. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      A clown that tap dances. This keeps getting better.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      10lb, this is why you get a bit of grief on these boards:

      No I said he was better on the last day of OTA's.  So our most recent evaluation of him he played better than McCown.

      Glennon finished with better stats than McCown on the last days of OTAs.

      and instead of just saying that you mis-typed, you just breeze right by on to a new twist

      Let's go back and correct all the typos on this board.  Solid idea.

      it . . was . . .a  . . .  typo. . . . .gotcha

      Once again, Vin vs. himself.  The last day of OTA's Glennon was near perfect.  By performing so well on the last day of OTA's, his overall stats were better than McCown's for all of OTAs.

      lol, its not me or you against anyone . . .its a message board . . .  where typos abound!  ;)

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      Look what I started. Ooooo my!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      If we have the NFLs leading sacker and a 1400 yard back, I don't know how you can say that we couldn't win the division. It's like they didn't think about how their statements would actually impact the games.

      gee, I don’t know.  Didn’t the Vikings have the best DE in football and the best RB  in football for several years  and not do crap?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1312

      If we have the NFLs leading sacker and a 1400 yard back, I don't know how you can say that we couldn't win the division. It's like they didn't think about how their statements would actually impact the games.

      gee, I don't know.  Didn't the Vikings have the best DE in football and the best RB  in football for several years  and not do crap?

      The fact is it takes many things working just right in many ways and a whole bunch of luck sometimes to get it done in the NFL... Hence you just NEVER KNOW how its going to turn out, good OR bad. Isnt it why we all watch?

      Please wait…

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