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    • Biggs3535

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      Post count: 6424

      I’m a fan of Bill Maher, even though we disagree on on about 65% of the issues. There’s very little gray there. On the issues we agree, we wholeheartedly agree. On the issues we disagree, we wholeheartedly disagree. But I respect the fact that he doesn’t pander to the soy boys or virtue signal to the race-baiters – for the most part. In his final segment on Friday, Maher takes down this idiotic idea of Free College for All. Enjoy:

      One of the better stats: “In 1960, 15% of college students received an “A.” Today, that number is 45%. That’s not because college graduates are getting smarter…”

      You wanna go to college to get a high-paying job, but racking up large amounts of debt along the way? Great, but don’t expect anyone else to pay for it.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      There is always a pantomime to fight

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Lol. Phantom

      Nice autocorrect

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6625

      Free college for all isn’t the solution, I agree.

      So what do we do now that we agree on something? Hold hands?

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      Free college for all isn’t the solution, I agree.

      Exactly the point. Almost everyone agrees lol

      Guys like Mahr need viewers though so they always create this extreme straw men to beat up and that play really well with, in this instance, the “socialism” fear set.

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6424

      Free college for all isn’t the solution, I agree.

      Exactly the point. Almost everyone agrees lol

      Guys like Mahr need viewers though so they always create this extreme straw men to beat up and that play really well with, in this instance, the “socialism” fear set.

      I’m aware of your penchant to incredulously deny reality, but you act as if there isn’t a current bill in both houses of Congress proposing this exact thing, Mr. Cronkite. Did the TDS twittesphere not cover it?

      Free college for all isn’t the solution, I agree.

      So what do we do now that we agree on something? Hold hands?

      This includes canceling all current student debt, Mr. Mayor. Am I wrong in stating that is something you’ve championed many times in the past?

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      but you act as if there isn’t a current bill in both houses of Congress proposing this exact thing,

      Can always count on you to clown yourself, twice

      Anyone with Google (and a 5th grade education) can see why you just double clowned yourself, so I will not waste the time. Maybe look at the bill, Marge

      • Kermit56

        Participant
        Post count: 257

        I looked at the bill and this is in it…

        The legislation if passed would guarantee tuition-free community college for all students, and allow students from families earning under $125,000 a year to attend public colleges and universities tuition-free and debt-free.

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6625

        This is the part I’m open to… community College either being cheap or free to low income housholds

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6625

      Student loan debt relief and free college are different, yes.

      I think that $50k forgiveness for anyone making less than $150k/year could be a viable solution and help inject more funds into the economy.

      You’ll disagree and that’s fine… but they are two different issues

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      This is the part I’m open to… community College either being cheap or free to low income housholds

      The way it already is in 20-25 states

      And the furthest Biden went

      Next week, Mahr will argue that life doesn’t begin at conception!*

      * almost every year a different Republican, including Rand Paul twice, submits the Life Begins at Conception Act (because … ya know .., the Libertarian platform on abortion ..lmao)
      I am not sure it’s ever received a vote

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Not surprising that this thread DJ sing to the “AOC runs Biden” crowd…

      The same people who say “confirmation bias” ain’t a thing lmao, same who post Team Trump, Ben Shapiro, Daily Wire, Andy Ngo etc

    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 4050

      Free college for all is a bad idea. Free Pre-K is a good idea.

      I looked at the bill and this is in it…

      The legislation if passed would guarantee tuition-free community college for all students, and allow students from families earning under $125,000 a year to attend public colleges and universities tuition-free and debt-free.

      That’s the Bernie Sanders College for All plan, Kermit.

      Biden has proposed free two year community college.

      Biden’s plan would forgive outstanding student debt for those who have responsibly paid it back for 20 years. Those working jobs in “national or community service” like teaching or non-profits, would receive $10,000 student debt relief annually for up to five years for each year that they stay in that vocational job..

      People making more than $25,000 would direct pay 5 percent of their discretionary income toward their loan, which is half of the current 10 percent cap. Those who make $25,000 or less would not be expected to pay back the government and would not accrue interest.

      • Kermit56

        Participant
        Post count: 257

        Roy, yes it is. I believe this is one of the bills Biggs was referring to when Karma called him a clown.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      Roy, yes it is. I believe this is one of the bills Biggs was referring to when Karma called him a clown.

      He called himself a clown, twice lol

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6424

      Student loan debt relief and free college are different, yes.

      They are different, and both are included in the bill that Mr. Cronkite says is a phantom.

      While different, the principle is the same – i.e. paying for another person’s college education.

      This is the part I’m open to… community College either being cheap or free to low income housholds

      Community college already is cheap compared to a four-year university. The government doesn’t need to screw that up too.

      And if you can’t afford college, aren’t athletic enough to get athletic scholarships, or aren’t smart enough to get academic scholarships, you probably shouldn’t go to college. Unless the profession you’re seeking to join is a high-paying one, going into six-figure debt for a piece of paper is foolish. Go get some real-life experience, go to trade-school, and learn how to properly manage your finances. You’ll be much better off in the long run, and are less likely to be whining to your government daddy about a “living wage” for flipping burgers, asking somebody else to make the payments you agreed to make, or other such nonsense that decries personal responsibility.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      a phantom.

      While different, the principle is the same – i.e. paying for another person’s college education.

      This is why you Trumpers are all super easy marks for people selling outrage

      As I mentioned in the first post “socialisms” (“paying for another persons college education”)

      Now, lets talk about how dumb this all is COMING FROM A TRUMPER

      1. If a TRUMPER should possess any skill, its should be the skill of identifying EXTREME views

      2. Trumpers should possess that skill because their own views are largely EXTREME VIEWS THAT ARE VERY UNLIKELY TO BECOME LAW

      3. How do we know that?

      4.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      4. The centrist side of their own party (RINOS) have eplit form them

      5. Trump himself — WHILE IN OFFICE — was UNABLLE to pass as laws many of his CORNERSTONE issues, from the wall to immigration reform to his OWN COVID RELIEF BILLS.

      6. He couldn’t pass many of the things EVEN with the GOP in control of CONGRESS

      7. Why does that matter?

      8. Because all of the Trumpers here seem to ignore that ACTUAL REALITY OF THE AMERICAN GOVERMENT . . . when it comes to the OTHER EXTREME SET OF VIEWS

      9. So, dufus Buggsy aint on here talking about Biden’s actual plan that ha ssome support in CONGRESS

      10. Its the Sanders/Japayl bill (in a completely stretched form even, “Free College Fort All)

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      11. and to bring it all back to the Cocoon, none of you Trumpers seem to aggree that youre all being preyed upon on the basis of “confiormation bias”

      12. even when Buggsy is motivated — for once in maybe a decade — to actually post about atooic and not a poster because the Bill Mahr story RESONATED WITH HIM THAT STRNGLY (evne though tis about an issue that is very very unlikely to become law)

      13. That’s the entire point . . PROVEN (unknowingly, as usual) by Buggsy.

      14. And its not just Buggsy, its every Trumper. JBear always screams about the secret socialist cabal. You all have these fears and the media plays to them . . and then you deny that they are playisn got them . . while talking about the Bernie bill (the guy who was supoose to beat Biden ) in an environment where Biden SPECIFICALLY broke from Bernie and the progressive’s ON THIS ISSE and that has not even passed

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      and because Buggsy will try to save face (even though he has no need to, its just a freaking discussion), he will go on and on about string posts and soy boys and blah blah blah

      because the alternative . . .

      :-)

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6625

      I know you want a heated exchange but this isn’t my mood right now.

      I understand why people are opposed to debt forgiveness but I simply disagree.

      Until the government stops subsidizes [inset one of the million things here] then I don’t see why this relief wouldn’t help those in need AND inject more spending power into the economy.

      Biden isn’t a leftist, he’s a centrist like Obama and has constituents to his left that he throws a bone (that’s how I view him, and I’m not stating that as a fact… rather an opinion).

      So I don’t expect Biden to do anything radical here like an AOC or Sanders would propose.

      I think there was be a middle ground solution…

      Personally, I disagree with “don’t go to college”. I think we need to educate on HOW you go to college.

      I went to community College and then a major university. It took me 7 years in total to graduate because I worked part/full-time during it.

      I graduated with $50k in debt which isn’t bad or good… had some small scholarships etc but nothing major.

      I think it isn’t fair to simply paint people as stupid for wanting to get a formal education… just that there was a knowledge gap. Our parents didn’t NEED college so they didn’t know how to inform their kids on college.

      So many people were told to “live your dream” instead of going to school with the end in mind.

      Just my two cents

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      the mixed up world of Trumpism

      “Bernie is Trump’s toughest candidate” (because you all think the Dem party is socialist lol)

      when that falls apart

      “AOC controls Biden, he’s really for the GND “(even though he has his own, more centrist plan)

      when that falls apart

      “Free College For all” — even though that is the Bernie/Squad bill that BIDEN ALREADY SPECIFICALLY REJECTED

      Its like you’re all so committed to your HYPER-PARTISAN FAUX NEWS (fake) reality — “the Dems are all socialists” — that when that is NOT supported by the real world, you just make shit up to fight against

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      another great example of Trumpers living in a fictional world:

      in Trumper world, Fire and Karma are one and the same, even though IN REALITY we disagree on many thing

      I understand why people are opposed to debt forgiveness but I simply disagree

      I am against eradicating student loan debt BEYOND the commercial school victims

      I also dont agree with the concept of “Free College For All” (even though there’s no such thing in reality), but I am supposed to be a “socialist” Dem too LMAO

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      This is from the NEW YORK TIMES in April. You Trumpers would know about the NYT because you believe its all fake LMAO

      “The simplest way to make [college] free is to replace the tuition students are currently paying with federal dollars. That’s what a bill introduced last week by Senator Bernie Sanders would do. “

      “The Biden administration is expected to endorse a different bill that was introduced Monday by the Democratic chairs of the Senate and House education committees.”

      In other words, the actual Dem PARTY bill (not law) is a tiny, tiny portion of the much larger and more progressive Sanders/Jayapal bill that is ostensibly the subject of the OP.

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6424

      I know you want a heated exchange but this isn’t my mood right now.

      I really don’t. I thought Maher made valid, logical points against something you’ve spoke up for in the past. I figured you might take those valid, logical points from a liberal better than Biggs-the-meanie.

      I understand why people are opposed to debt forgiveness but I simply disagree.

      Until the government stops subsidizes [inset one of the million things here] then I don’t see why this relief wouldn’t help those in need AND inject more spending power into the economy.

      That’s a logical argument on your end. My end would argue those subsidies (largely) should stop as well.

      Personally, I disagree with “don’t go to college”. I think we need to educate on HOW you go to college.

      I think it isn’t fair to simply paint people as stupid for wanting to get a formal education… just that there was a knowledge gap. Our parents didn’t NEED college so they didn’t know how to inform their kids on college.

      So many people were told to “live your dream” instead of going to school with the end in mind.

      Just my two cents

      When you were in middle/high school, did the students (in general) that were getting that free government education really work as hard as they could have? Do you believe the Department of Education is a well-run bureaucracy?

      My point being not everyone should go to college and the public education as it currently exists is pretty much a joke. Not everyone cares about their education as much as they should and aren’t willing to put in the work – not as teenagers anyway. Do you really see that changing all that much when college will basically be a four-year party for most of those people? Also, as insensitive as I’m sure you believe this sounds, not everyone is intelligent enough to justify the money that will cost to send them to college with room/board/books/etc.. That’s just a reality.

      If you disagree with my premise that college isn’t for everybody, check out https://www.mikeroweworks.org/ and tell me what you think. I find Rowe’s mission to be excellent. And the lack of skilled labor force is starting to show it’s head.

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6625

        College isn’t for everyone, totally agree

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6625

      Yeah it’s simpler if they call us the same thing, even though years ago we were at each other’s throats… we’re unified against Trump and the modern GOP….not in our political ideologies (although there is overlap).

      Boogeyman arguments of socialism are for simple folk

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1191

      I think the big problem is that the current thought is everyone SHOULD go to College and are driven to do so. Problem is a bus driver doesn’t need to go to College. If you want to spend 20+ years on the Army you don’t need to go to College. If you change your mind after 9 years like I did, there are alternatives. In the US, the G.I Bill.

      What good is $50, $60, $70+ in debt and you come out with a Bachelors in Gender studies? I was told once that as a rule of thumb any degree that ends with “studies” is a ticket to big debt and no job.

      By encouraging everyone to go to college you are essentially writing a blank check to price increases because demand outstrips supply. The irony is you get academia professing everyone has a “right” to go to college, then they charge an arm and a leg for doing so, all while lecturing about “equality.”

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6625

        Not everyone is encouraged to go to college…

        Again, it’s the HOW AND WHY…

        I went to college originally for music theory, to become a music teacher. My parents didn’t have any feedback they just said “follow your dreams” because they didn’t go… they weren’t paying, and it wasn’t their problem.

        I finished my associates and made the shift to a QUICKER and APPLICABLE degree that is often laughed at: communications.

        I talked to a guidance counselor, put my head down, and finished the degree in what was eventually 7 years.

        Many people laugh at the degree itself or that it took my 7 years but guess what… the degree itself is just a degree.

        But FINISHING something you start has value.

        Networking has value.

        The learning itself has value.

        Time management has value.

        Investing in yourself has value.

        Am I living a good life now based solely on getting a degree? Hell no… it’s what you do with it…

        I don’t think everyone is being told to go to college, but I do think too many are told to go without knowing what they want to do with it…and that is the problem.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      By encouraging everyone to go to college you are essentially writing a blank check to price increases because demand outstrips supply. The irony is you get academia professing everyone has a “right” to go to college, then they charge an arm and a leg for doing so, all while lecturing about “equality.”

      this is right, in part, wrong in another

      There is no direct “force” driving people to go to college. Instead, its that very common “law of good intentions” that happens with government all the time. College becomes a way to forma better life for those returning from war. the government tries to help people by making low cost MONEY more available through grants and low cost student loans. More students for a somewhat static number of universities and colleges results increased demand driving up tuition.

      “academia” doesn’t say everyone has a right to go to college lol. They says everyone should have the equal ability to go to college IF THEY WANT. Colleges and universities charge and “arm and a leg” because there’s “free money” to pay and the competition for students leads ot the expoansiojn of the offering, that has to be paid for.

      Vicious cycle all tied to the unintended consequence of the very well -intentioned expansion of federal and state aid

      Somehow people on the right see it as almost a social crusade, it seems? The we need “ditch diggers” too crowd. We do need ditch diggers, but it aint easy being a ditch digger when the median home is in the 220K range and a basic car costs 20K. You can see that thought process in Spartan’s comment – “Problem is a bus driver doesn’t need to go to College. ” No one says a bus driver needs a college degree, many say you MIGHT be able to have a better life (IN THE UNITED STATES) than a bus drive WITH an education. In other words, the downside to the profit motive is that people get left behind.

      Generally speaking, someone with a college education should earn more than someone without (CNN: “College grads earn $30,000 a year more than people with just a high school degree”)

      The Bernie “Free College For All” concept is based on this reality AND . . . . and . . the idea that the opportunity is not equal across society (if you look you will see his bill calls for funding from Wall Street). Its opportunity driven, the very classic left side “good intention” that would probably have the unintended consequence of more student debt, grade inflation, and tuition inflation

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      the actual “solution” is not more college education, its reduced cost of living and less cultural emphasis on wealth as success. Make it so the bus driver can live a good life as a bus driver.

      Those changes (reduced cost of living and less cultural emphasis on wealth as success) are TOUIGH to pull off though, so giving $ is easier

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      Not to change the topic, but ONE big reason we have an immigration issue is white Americans not willing to do the work or work as hard

      this is most obvious by just looking at the plight of family farms, which are increasingly sold or passed tot he Hispanic field worker

      Or, go by an large Florida suburban housing development ON A SUNDAY . . you will see many Hispanic workers there

      The same issue with the bus driver, no matter the race. The kid whose father was a bus driver wants to have a “better” life . . everyday his senses tells him/her that MAKING MORE MONEY is the key, not, for example, having a family or working less or doing charitable work. Its WEALTH and status that make us happy (lol) . . this is America

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6625

      It’s a multi-prong solution:

      Some form of debt relief with clear outlines

      Affordable community College (more affordable than it is now, which is only “affordable” comparatively speaking); and as some have mentioned this is already partially happening

      Make college CHEAPER; especially textbooks

      Encourage trade schools

      Educate on college debt and other finances in high school

      Mandatory guidance counseling upon enrollment

      Allow the use of 401k to pay off student loan debt with no tax consequences (a Rand Paul idea I believe)

      Set a interest limit on all student loans of prime +2%

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 4125

      I’m a fan of Bill Maher, even though we disagree on on about 65% of the issues. There’s very little gray there. On the issues we agree, we wholeheartedly agree. On the issues we disagree, we wholeheartedly disagree. But I respect the fact that he doesn’t pander to the soy boys or virtue signal to the race-baiters – for the most part. In his final segment on Friday, Maher takes down this idiotic idea of Free College for All. Enjoy:

      One of the better stats: “In 1960, 15% of college students received an “A.” Today, that number is 45%. That’s not because college graduates are getting smarter…”

      You wanna go to college to get a high-paying job, but racking up large amounts of debt along the way? Great, but don’t expect anyone else to pay for it.

      I heard that and loved it. I have to admit I’m really warming up to that guy. What he’s saying should be obvious to anyone. But I’m sure Karma will or has already chimed in saying how Bill Maher is just trying to get clicks and he’s a media guy so he’s just selling out to say something sensational which he really doesn’t believe because it’s impossible. lol

    • jbear

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      Post count: 4125

      Guys like Mahr need viewers though so they always create this extreme straw men to beat up and that play really well with, in this instance, the “socialism” fear set.

      Sheesh that didn’t take long did it.

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 4125

      he actual “solution” is not more college education, its reduced cost of living and less cultural emphasis on wealth as success. Make it so the bus driver can live a good life as a bus driver.

      So just rewrite human nature. No biggie. lol

      This is why you guys are so wrong on everything. “We just need less cultural emphasis on wealth as success”. It’s hilarious.

      Sorry to be a jerk but it just is. This is hard wired into people. It’s not just about money and “stuff” either. It’s about status, it’s about privilege, it’s about being human.

      A perfect example which might at first seem unrelated was a recent church service I attended at a sort of “rock and roll” Cool church where the pews are packed with younger born again types who have completely emerged themselves in Jesus by attending multiple weekly church groups… they even have a singles group. so there are a lot of very impressionable young people who have or are considering dedicating their lives to jesus…. Not my cup of tea by the way, I found it downright scary.

      Anyway the sermon was about how it’s true that you can get closer to God by not getting married and having a family “but” there’s nothing wrong with getting married and having a family either. So they apparently have a problem. too many zealots who have gone completely bonkers for Jesus.

      And it’s human nature. Even if it isn’t everyone, it’s a large enough percentage of the population that will never be happy unless they do everything just a little bit more than the next person. These zealots are just a part of the contest, who’s closer to jesus. And it’s nuts but it’s freaking true.

      In any case your answer to this problem… I’m assuming hundreds of millions of identical cubicles, clothes food or maybe we all just magically have everything we want all the time? is even more disgusting than watching these religious lunatics writhe around on the floor in a giant jesus orgy.

      I’m just taking it to it’s logical end. There is no non monstrous way to just wish everyone into la la land. Maybe if you crack a few skulls… humanely of course. Just try to be a little nicer than Stalin and thins will work out. Sorry to break it to you fire.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      This is hard wired into people.

      No its not

      which makes it hilarious that you would say that.

      In fact, the emphasis on fame, wealth, is almost a key American trait, meaning much of the world doesnt share the same view, at least not to the extent that we do.

      That’s really easy to see if you ever get out of central Florida

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      Sorry to be a jerk but it just is

      But @JBear, since you seem to enjoy being a jerk (lol), you may need to talk to your Trump buddies because MY POINT was PRECISELY that its that American “hard wiring” that makes a young son of a farmer not want to take over the family farm. ITs not part of his .. wait for it . . AMERICAN dream

      In other words, you guys are the only dopes who need some even cabal to be working against you all the time, who need some AOC to blame. The student loan crisis/ and tuition crisis is:

      1) part AMERICAN GREED (eg for profit schools like “Trump university”) — just like for profit deregulated power in TX didnt works so well, and

      2) well intentioned government assistance

      ITS NOT THAT THOSE DUMB BLACK (blue, green, white and yellow) FOLK SHOULD GO TO SCHOOL BECAUSE WE NEED DITCH DIGGERS . . . its that everyone is looking for the better opportunity because everything in life is expensive . . and of course . . we all need Mercedes and $400 Nike shoes :-)

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      And it’s human nature. Even if it isn’t everyone, it’s a large enough percentage of the population that will never be happy unless they do everything just a little bit more than the next person.

      this is not as much human nature as it is American culture

      not knocking American culture, just pointing out that its not universal.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6625

      Been watching Maher forever and have mentioned oh this board more than once that many right winger would like him because he hates many of the things that give liberals a black eye (handouts, SJW, idealism, etc).

      I agree with about 80% of what he says and appreciate his conviction

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 257

      you guys are the only dopes who need some even cabal to be working against you all the time, who need some AOC to blame.

      Karma telling conservatives they always need someone to blame is hilarious!! Karma has posted ad nauseum blaming Trump for everything wrong under the sun. Talk about projection….

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      you guys are the only dopes who need some even cabal to be working against you all the time, who need some AOC to blame.

      Karma telling conservatives they always need someone to blame is hilarious!! Karma has posted ad nauseum blaming Trump for everything wrong under the sun. Talk about projection….

      I have blamed Trump when he deserves blame. I actually blamed the FBI at the beginning of the Russia scandal

      You are a cult member, I think. Perhaps you can find one post by criticizing Trump?

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      kermit

      Perhaps you can find one post by YOU criticizing Trump?

      will keep an eye out

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      you guys are the only dopes who need some even cabal to be working against you all the time, who need some AOC to blame.

      Karma telling conservatives they always need someone to blame is hilarious!! Karma has posted ad nauseum blaming Trump for everything wrong under the sun. Talk about projection….

      Also notice no response ON THE SUBSTANCE?

      pretty much the SOP for Trump cultist is to effectively admit the substance of the message by focusing on the messenger

      feel free to prove me wrong, Kermit

      :-)

      • Kermit56

        Participant
        Post count: 257

        You want me to prove to you that conservatives don’t always need someone to blame? OK. No we don’t. There.

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6625

        Lol, what a side step.

        Pointing out how you never criticize Trump… while bitching that people blame him for his fuck ups.

        Like someone burning my house down and I blame the arsonist… you telling me to get over it because you love fire.

        Lmfao

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      You want me to prove to you that conservatives don’t always need someone to blame? OK. No we don’t. There.

      LOL

      I dont want you to prove anything

      I gave you the chance to prove two things, one about you, one about the substance

      You declined

      I gave you that chance because your post was a shot at me, the messenger, not a shot at the topic (ie the message)

      as I said that “attack the messenger” approach is SOP for “know nothing” Trump cultists

      That is a point YOU DID PROVE (as I knew you would) so you’ve always got that

      :-)

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      This is hard wired into people.

      No its not

      which makes it hilarious that you would say that.

      In fact, the emphasis on fame, wealth, is almost a key American trait, meaning much of the world doesnt share the same view, at least not to the extent that we do.

      That’s really easy to see if you ever get out of central Florida

      a simple example . . from “outside central Florida” and an article by Politifact that took 2 seconds to fine with . . The Google

      Jennifer Boysko: Says that the “United States is the only industrialized, modernized country that does not already have a paid family medical leave program in place.”

      PolitiFact’s ruling: True

      Here’s why: Sweeping legislation that would have established a paid family leave program for Virginia employees was recently killed in the state Senate.

      The bill, introduced by Sen. Jennifer Boysko (D-Fairfax) would have established a wage tax in 2024 to finance up to 12 weeks of annual paid leave time for workers at 80% of their regular earnings. Eligible were employees:

      Caring for a new child the first year after birth, adoption or foster placement;
      Experiencing or caring for a family member with serious health problems;
      Caring for the family of a deployed service member. . . .

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      ts that American “hard wiring” that makes a young son of a farmer not want to take over the family farm.

      2013 article

      https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/01/31/170659579/future-farms-of-america-might-not-include-much-family

      Future Farms Of America Might Not Include Much Family

      why is that an almost uniquely American issue?

      “How America’s food giants swallowed the family farms”

      “Across the midwest, the rise of factory farming is destroying rural communities. And the massive corporations behind this devastation are now eyeing a post-Brexit UK market”

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Not sure that reality matters in Trumpland, but at least one part of this debate (student loans) is actually a problem, in part, because of the crazy action taken by the Trump admin (Betsy DeVos), but this very brief description below SHOWS (in bold) the unintended consequence of government trying to help disadvantaged people. Look at the BOLD:

      “Founded in 1995, Corinthian Colleges once had more than 100 campuses across the country, with 74,000 students enrolled. In 2014, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau accused it of illegally collecting high-interest private loans that it marketed to students.

      The CFPB’s action coincided with the filing of more than 100 lawsuits in federal court about Corinthian’s practices, and the company lost federal funding because of deceptive marketing and lying about its graduation rates, with high loan defaults being one result. It filed for bankruptcy protection in 2015.”

      “LOST FEDERAL FUNDING”

      Corinthian (and other like) probably dont even exist without the federal government and then when they (and others) were SUED (people trying to recover from fraud – “collecting high-interest private loans that it marketed to students”) it took PROTECTION under the bankruptcy laws (“It filed for bankruptcy protection in 2015”)

      Trump’s contribution to the problem was BETSY DEVOS

      https://www.npr.org/2019/12/11/786367598/betsy-devos-overruled-education-dept-findings-on-defrauded-student-borrowers

      TRUMP OWNED . . . TRUMP UNIVERSITY . . . a “for profit” .. skool

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 257

      Lol, what a side step.

      Pointing out how you never criticize Trump… while bitching that people blame him for his fuck ups.

      Like someone burning my house down and I blame the arsonist… you telling me to get over it because you love fire.

      Lmfao

      You really don’t see the hypocrisy in his post? You want to talk about a cocoon, there you go.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      in his post

      :-)

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 4125

      In fact, the emphasis on fame, wealth, is almost a key American trait, meaning much of the world doesnt share the same view, at least not to the extent that we do.

      That’s really easy to see if you ever get out of central Florida

      Bullshit Fire. You’re probably talking about some German guy who goes to a hippie nudist camp on weekends and gives lip service to going “natural” and getting rid of possessions but he still wants to get laid as much as the next guy so status is still important to that guy. He still drives there in his audi and even when you do find a loon who lives in a tent somewhere because they want to be off the grid they still reject your controlled final solution where everyone happily lives in a concentration camp and sings Kumbaya all night long.

      Bullshit bullshit bullshit. People want to be different and individuals AS a form of status. It’s all about having something others don’t. If you can convince people to believe it’s cooler to have shitty stuff then it’s still about status…. it’s still about “look at me” so your utopia won’t ever work… not in any stable way. Everyone will never want to have all the same shitty stuff fire. Get your head out of your ass.

      Also I live in SW Florida near the beach and it’s freaking awesome.

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 4125

        Jesus…. I meant Karma.

    • Anonymous

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      You’re probably talking about some German guy who goes to a hippie nudist camp

      lol

      I gave an actual example . . not involving a German nudist

      the us only major developed county without PAID FMLA

      or a second one . . death of family farm largely linked to LOBBYING power of big corporations

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 4125

      a simple example . . from “outside central Florida” and an article by Politifact that took 2 seconds to fine with . . The Google

      “Jennifer Boysko: Says that the “United States is the only industrialized, modernized country that does not already have a paid family medical leave program in place.”

      What the fudge?

      Back on topic… I can give you hundreds, even thousands of examples of how wrong you are about caring about having better than your neighbor is only an American culture problem. In fact it’s insanity to even suggest that. This problem is a universal problem of one upsmanship that is even more dangerous in authoritarian countries like China or Russia. The thing you always miss is that my fear of government isn’t because I don’t like being told what to do it’s because of corruption.

      The more power the govenrment is given the more inevitable corruption and that corruption spreads right along the same fault lines. Having better stuff, more status, more freedom, just more of everything. That’s why I love to talk about AOC’s thousand dollar pant suits… not because she’s not entitled to buy what she wants in a free society with a relatively free market but because she’s against all that as you often seem to be, yet she at least has shown that she’s as human as everyone else. She wants cool shit and if given the power she’ll always have the best of the best.

      Why do you think the Soviet Union was so corrupt? At the end the black market was probably larger than the “real” economy. People jumped at the chance to spend rubles on anything which they would store away to trade when they needed something. This happened because of that human nature it sure as hell isn’t because of American culture as any 2 watt lightbulb ought to be able to see. The corruption stemmed from the complete authority of the government in every aspect of life. The smart people got into government and if they weren’t smart they knew someone or their cousin or wife’s father or some other relative was in position to grease the skids. It’s human nature. Everyone wants more than the next guy and communism ignored that fact.

      Fire opened up this discussion by giving his ridiculous “solution” to save the planet by making people happy with less shit. So thank Fire not me.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      how wrong you are about caring about having better than your neighbor is only an American culture problem. In fact it’s insanity to even suggest that

      how about twisting it out of shape to fight it? . . is that insanity?

      In fact, the emphasis on fame, wealth, is almost a key American trait, meaning much of the world doesnt share the same view, at least not to the extent that we do.

      JBear version – “caring about having better than your neighbor is only an American culture problem”

      weird

      did

      not

      see

      that

      coming

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      how wrong you are about caring about having better than your neighbor is only an American culture problem. In fact it’s insanity to even suggest that

      how about twisting it out of shape to fight it? . . is that insanity?

      In fact, the emphasis on fame, wealth, is almost a key American trait, meaning much of the world doesnt share the same view, at least not to the extent that we do.

      JBear version – “caring about having better than your neighbor is only an American culture problem”

      weird

      did

      not

      see

      that

      coming

      @Jbaer — your cartoon-like claim that my position was “caring about having better than your neighbor is only an American culture problem” is your 2nd or 3rd sentence

      never bothered to read anything after it.

      Not going to watch you flog yourself

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      In fact it’s insanity to even suggest that.

      you may know what you’re talking about . . :-)

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 4125

      You’re probably talking about some German guy who goes to a hippie nudist camp

      lol

      I gave an actual example . . not involving a German nudist

      the us only major developed county without PAID FMLA

      or a second one . . death of family farm largely linked to LOBBYING power of big corporations

      Fuck that was your example? That doesn’t have anything to do with anything.

      Let me just… sheesh. So I guess, paid family leave is a necessity in la la land. Ok I follow. So it’s not just an “I want to be cool so I need fancy shit”. This is just a basic human right… paid family leave, free healthcare, a basic minimum income, food of course, a place to sleep of course….. A phone of course…. internet, you have to have internet… free education? I’m asking cause that’s what we began with. Free education is a basic human right? Right?

      Do you seriously even hear yourself? Good lord. This is your point? That you’re a socialist? thanks but I already figured that out years ago… and now you’ll deny it again. of course. You’re not a socialist at all you’re just a completely normal person and people like me are completely insane!! Right?

      Even if you managed to turn the country into a wonderland by providing everyone with all the basic human “rights” it still won’t be enough. Those goal posts move. they always move and always will move.

      This is how people like you delude yourselves. You believe that you’ll do it better this time. And you pretend that you don’t see that socialist Europe is basically in it’s death throws already. Once you take away the fairness of a system based on merit and replace it with a system based on committee defined social justice things will get bad quickly. It’ll take decades but it will happen. I say committee defined because that’s what it will really amount to. We have a system that’s based on definable metrics, profit, good business practices and making wise financial decisions and you want to replace it with a system thats based on a bunch of feelings and “fairness” and it won’t fucking work as has been proved countless times in history.

      Have I said that this is bullshit? Because it is.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Have I said that this is bullshit? Because it is.

      its pretty hard to tell what you’re saying . . to yourself

      feel free to address any of my posts

      You might find this one interesting

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6625

      Fire opened up this discussion by giving his ridiculous “solution” to save the planet by making people happy with less shit. So thank Fire not me.

      At least I offered some sort of a solution or belief instead of “I view everything as socialism”.

      I mean FFS, one of the things I mentioned came from Rand Paul! Your hero…

      What I’ve learned about you is that you lack basic tenets that you actually stick to and abide by…

      You just live in fear and will throw the baby out with the bathwater.

      Such a tool

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 4125

      its pretty hard to tell what you’re saying . . to yourself

      feel free to address any of my posts

      You might find this one interesting

      Says Karma the socialist. lol You put up an example of the U.S. being the only developed country that doesn’t provide paid family medical leave (tears streaming down your face) during a discussion… started by your boy Fire in which he plans to fix the world by stopping people from wanting money. And that was your argument against my complaint that Fire is living in an alternate universe if he thinks he’s going to (without the use of force) get people to stop wanting nicer things than their neighbor…. that the U.S. doesn’t provide enough free shit!

      It’s hilarious.

      That this is how the “Normal” people think…. supposedly. Get your head out of Rachael Maddow’s ass.

    • jbear

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      Not to change the topic, but ONE big reason we have an immigration issue is white Americans not willing to do the work or work as hard

      Racist.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6625

      God damn dude, you’re just straight tilted/nuts these days.

      No different than chron in your tangential stupidity.

      Starting to just feel sorry for you.

      Pathetic

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1191

      In fact, the emphasis on fame, wealth, is almost a key American trait, meaning much of the world doesnt share the same view, at least not to the extent that we do.

      Really?

      Ever been outside the USA?

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6625

        I’ve been to 35 counties and can confirm, the USA is quite unique in how we view wealth…

        We’re also one of the more conservative 1st world countries, if not THEE most, in the world.

        People called Biden a socialist… so just put that in perspective for a moment

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1191

      I’ve been to 35 counties and can confirm, the USA is quite unique in how we view wealth…

      We’re also one of the more conservative 1st world countries, if not THEE most, in the world.

      People called Biden a socialist… so just put that in perspective for a moment

      I’ve not been to 35 best I recall, but then again the question wasn’t for you.

      That said, even China values wealth (now), so please feel free to point out any country that is not to some degree driven by fame and fortune.

      What I will say is that “fame” is typically PERCEIVED to be an American thing because of the global movie and music industry being so centered in the USA. Most movie stars are/were American, most music stars are/were American.

      Yet look around all the continents and countries and there is plenty of fame and wealth seeking to pass around.

      Many of the African Govts, all about corruption and fortune.
      Many of the Arab oil countries all about wealth.

      Even the “communist countries” of old had heroes of the moves and politics. Its definitely not a solely or predominantly American thing.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6625

      In the United States your pay is part of your identity. This is much different than around the world. We view our worth based on our income and wealth.

      Also, we tend to think that those with money are “smarter” so we inherently trust their wealth over skill/experience.

      I lived in China for a year, and I can tell you that they are actually quite similar to the US in terms of wealth = intelligence. It creates more problems for them as there is a lot of artifical wealth (long story)… but the difference is their collectivist attitude on salaries for rank and file workers… they think that everyone should make the same, regardless of skill. Everyone gets the same raise… I left because they wanted to give me the same raise as all the other idiots with no experience and less duties… yada yada, jbear would probably go to jail for going on a murder spree

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      I’ve been to 35 counties and can confirm, the USA is quite unique in how we view wealth…

      We’re also one of the more conservative 1st world countries, if not THEE most, in the world.

      People called Biden a socialist… so just put that in perspective for a moment

      I’ve not been to 35 best I recall, but then again the question wasn’t for you.

      That said, even China values wealth (now), so please feel free to point out any country that is not to some degree driven by fame and fortune.

      What I will say is that “fame” is typically PERCEIVED to be an American thing because of the global movie and music industry being so centered in the USA. Most movie stars are/were American, most music stars are/were American.

      Yet look around all the continents and countries and there is plenty of fame and wealth seeking to pass around.

      Many of the African Govts, all about corruption and fortune.
      Many of the Arab oil countries all about wealth.

      Even the “communist countries” of old had heroes of the moves and politics. Its definitely not a solely or predominantly American thing.

      It is. It’s a feature – some might say a DEFINING feature – of American culture.

      I’ve given numerous example in this thread. Taken from living in snd with many different cultures. Simple manifestations of the difference include, as I mentioned, paid FMLA, paid maternity and paternity leave, 6-8 weeks of vacation.

      Americans are “love to work” many others “work to live”.

      Huge homes a standard. People defined by their car, their watch their zip code, the private schools. Success seem in wealth. Fame (and even infamy) glorified one reason for our mass shooters snd even Trump. Trump himself routinely Measured people by their fame, whether it be ratings or followers.

      Not saying America is alone, just saying that financial success and fame are centerpieces of America culture

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6625

      Yes… and I personally love money, so I’m not saying I’m above it. I’m saying it is what it is.

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1191

      Yes… and I personally love money, so I’m not saying I’m above it. I’m saying it is what it is.

      It’s useful, especially with 2 kids in college :)

      But I would say (at least until recently) the defining quality of Americans was their “can do, get it done” attitude.

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 4125

      yada yada, jbear would probably go to jail for going on a murder spree

      I find that offensive. Compared to you I’m practically a pacifist and wouldn’t murder or assault anyone unless I felt my life or the life of a family member was in danger. That’s what happens to you when you believe in individual liberty. When you believe in socialism you worship violence because you can’t have socialism without violence…. it’s all about conformity and that is achieved through force.

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6625

        Softy snowflake alert 📢

        It’s a fucking joke…

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 4125

      Yes… and I personally love money, so I’m not saying I’m above it. I’m saying it is what it is.

      It turns out Fire is a Human being after all. Just like that BLM founder with all the mansions.

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6625

        I’m sure you’ll still find a way to call me a socialist

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 4125

      Not saying America is alone, just saying that financial success and fame are centerpieces of America culture

      That is because we are capitalists and it’s also why Fire attacks them. Anyway fame is really not what makes socialism an impossible goal. You can say that America has a problem with having too much of a fame worshiping culture and you might even be right but the root of this is the human desire for status. That status takes different forms in different cultures. As I mentioned many times, in Authoritarian governments, especially communist or socialist governments, status is bestowed by the government. All your doing is reallocating the winners. That’s what I never can quite get through to you guys.

      And the Bernie Sanders or AOC’s always have an answer for this. It’s always, campaign reform or some law about elected officials benefiting from donors or the stock market or whatever but that will never actually change anything. Once in control of the mechanisms of power they will be used to enrich whoever is in control. When you give government more and more power over the people the more power they will have to enrich themselves and they will do it.

      My answer is to limit the power of government and give individuals back their own bodies, minds and lives so long as they don’t harm or infringe on anyone elses right to do the same. I’m sorry but you can’t do that without allowing individuals to chase status on their own terms. The good news is that they have to do it themselves and for themselves and they have to follow the laws of the country while doing it. They also won’t have the benefit of having power bestowed by the people used to help them enrich themselves.

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6625

        Cry more… your phantom threats are moronic.

        I work in financial services and love money… more importantly I love opportunity.

        And for all the faults this country has and all the imperfection, I still love it.

        I just don’t worship capitalism and think of it as some perfect system, and any regulation is socialism.

        In other words, I’m not a clown that is scared of her own shadow

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 257

      My answer is to limit the power of government and give individuals back their own bodies, minds and lives so long as they don’t harm or infringe on anyone elses right to do the same.

      This!!

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      My answer is to limit the power of government and give individuals back their own bodies, minds and lives so long as they don’t harm or infringe on anyone elses right to do the same.

      This!!

      I think most people agree with this as a concept. The problem (for you guys) are the details in your QUALIFIERS

      That should be very obvious to guys who (I think) claim to be Libertarians

      so long as they don’t harm or infringe on anyone elses right to do the same

      In another thread, @JBear is speaking like a 2nd Am absolutist if though that rights OBVIOUSLY . . obviously , , infringes on other’s rights

      obviosyl, abortion. You guys dont seem to even understand your own platform lol. Your actually party — the party of Trump – is ACTIVELY trying to FULLY deny a women control over her body

      and this is just a JBear strawman:

      I’m sorry but you can’t do that without allowing individuals to chase status on their own terms.

      who says people canNOT chase status? I only said that chasing status is an ELEVATED interest in American culture that BETTER explains the student loan/tuition issues than “its all AOCs fault” or the bets one (this thread)

      “we have to stop the SOCIALIST Dems because . . well . . Bernie’s bill . . that was . . err . . rejected . . err umm . . by . . well . . Biden . . (slinks off) dammit . . I suck”

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 257

      I think most people agree with this as a concept.

      From Cove posts, I find it hard to believe you, Fire, Roy and any leftist agree with the concept of limiting the power of government.

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6625

        You only want to limit it based on your political beliefs, not the altruistic concept itself.

        If you want to be a libertarian, it is impossible to support the 4 years of Trump

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      I think most people agree with this as a concept.

      From Cove posts, I find it hard to believe you, Fire, Roy and any leftist agree with the concept of limiting the power of government.

      this is part of the problem

      you, Fire, Roy and any leftist

      any reasonable person reading these posts would see there are differences between all of those posters. In fact, I even point them out. But, you package them all together as “leftists” and close your mind to the prospect that ANY of them could possibly believe in small government

      There are many Trumpers here in the Cove. JBear does not wholly share the view of Runole, for example. In fact, I just jokingly pointed that out. JBear and DH both voted for Trump. JBear claims to be a Libertarian. DH is an actual Libertarian. The two are very different in their views. Spartan is a Trumper, but his views on many issues are different than many.

      the weird thing is that BY DEFINITION actual Trump supporters, as group, are way off on the right fringe of the political spectrum, so it forces you to look out over the rest of America and basically paint them all as “leftists.” That is dumb on its face OBVIOUSLY (Rinos are leftists?) so then it becomes “Biden is controlled by AOC” and threads like this one . . TALKING ABOUT BERNIES plan even though Biden actually REJECTED it.

      IN other words, the real world BELIES your attempt to group everyone together as some “leftist” cabal that is secretly trying to end America, but you dont seem to care.

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 257

      so it forces you to look out over the rest of America and basically paint them all as “leftists.”

      Not the rest of America. Just the ones I posted.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      so it forces you to look out over the rest of America and basically paint them all as “leftists.”

      Not the rest of America. Just the ones I posted.

      The ones you posted include a Rino and a liberal lol

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6625

      Biden the socialist… around the world he’s a neo-con

      Funny shit

      If you slide far enough to the right, everything is socialism.

      To a hammer, everything is a nail

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      If you slide far enough to the right, everything is socialism.

      To a hammer, everything is a nail

      a point totally lost on Kermit . . while he makes the point, unknowingly

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 4125

      In another thread, @JBear is speaking like a 2nd Am absolutist if though that rights OBVIOUSLY . . obviously , , infringes on other’s rights

      obviosyl, abortion. You guys dont seem to even understand your own platform lol. Your actually party — the party of Trump – is ACTIVELY trying to FULLY deny a women control over her body

      and this is just a JBear strawman:

      I’ve lost count of how many times I have explained this to you and you refuse to wrap your head around it. And I’m not demanding that you agree with me either. All I’m doing is pointing out that it is NOT a fucking contradiction if you believe that God bestowed the same rights on a fetus at any time before that fetus exists the birth canal. That means that even a libertarian is allowed to believe that a fetus is a living baby at some point before actual birth. I don’t even know what point that is but I do know that not even the wacko’s on the left are proposing abortions right up until birth so I have a hard time understanding what you’re even complaining about.

      If the question is just about at what point a fetus becomes a live individual with rights once again we have no contridiction here because as always the only time people shouldn’t have the right to do as they please with their own body is when it infringes on the rights of another individual. I have also pointed out that there are libertarians who claim to be pro life.

      Here’s a fucking article which I’ve already posted and you’ve ignored.

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 4125

      You only want to limit it based on your political beliefs, not the altruistic concept itself.

      If you want to be a libertarian, it is impossible to support the 4 years of Trump

      And somehow I have to support 4 years of Trump to speak against you. Your lunacy not mine.

      It’s so important for you and Karma to paint everyone you disagree with, with this brush. Why is that? You actually have no idea that people can disagree with you for legitimate reasons? Or is it an act?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      I’ve lost count of how many times I have explained this to you and you refuse to wrap your head around it.

      I was JOKING . . . joking . .. about Buggsy’s reading comprehension error. He once posted . . and READ . . the actual Libertarian platform to say the OPPOSITE of what it said on abortion.

      Libertarians have to have a nuanced view on abortion because BY DEFINTION abortion laws are MOSTLY MALE DRAFTED . . and telling a WOMEN that she does NOT have th freedom to control her own body.

      as pointed out in my post, its your TRUMPIAM brother hood — including your sex doll Rand Paul — who actually try every year to pass an “at conception” bill lol

      I actually mentioned that bill as the HYPOCRITICAL counter to Buggsy’s thread on Bernie’s “free college for all” plan

      :-)

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      It’s so important for you and Karma to paint everyone you disagree with, with this brush.

      or, its important for you to avoid it?

      By the way, can you talk to that very offensive FROG, Kermit 56, he says every non-Trumper is a “leftist.”

      (“very offensive” was a joke for Buggsy)

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6424

      I was JOKING . . . joking . .. about Buggsy’s reading comprehension error. He once posted . . and READ . . the actual Libertarian platform to say the OPPOSITE of what it said on abortion.

      Quick poll for posters: How many posters that read the above quote believe what Mr. Cronkite posted is true or false? Is that quote reality or a twisted version of reality that he’s repeated over and over and over and over in the hopes that it will become reality?

      Just curious if this tactic is working or not. Vote early and often – and two or three times if you’re a lefty.

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 257

      The ones you posted include a Rino and a liberal

      Not much difference between the two.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      The ones you posted include a Rino and a liberal

      Not much difference between the two.

      Well, that’s like saying that Bill Kristol is not much different than Rep Ohmar

      Or Trump is the same as the Maryland GOO Governor, if you put on GOP terms

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 4125

      There are many Trumpers here in the Cove. JBear does not wholly share the view of Runole, for example. In fact, I just jokingly pointed that out. JBear and DH both voted for Trump. JBear claims to be a Libertarian. DH is an actual Libertarian. The two are very different in their views. Spartan is a Trumper, but his views on many issues are different than many.

      the weird thing is that BY DEFINITION actual Trump supporters, as group, are way off on the right fringe of the political spectrum, so it forces you to look out over the rest of America and basically paint them all as “leftists.” That is dumb on its face OBVIOUSLY (Rinos are leftists?) so then it becomes “Biden is controlled by AOC” and threads like this one . . TALKING ABOUT BERNIES plan even though Biden actually REJECTED it.

      IN other words, the real world BELIES your attempt to group everyone together as some “leftist” cabal that is secretly trying to end America, but you dont seem to care.

      This is the most insulting, asinine post yet. You’ve outdone yourself again.

      Again, is this what you really think or is it just an act? Just take me, one individual and you’ll find a hundred contradictions against what you said here.

      In this simplistic view Trumpers are all extreme right wing fringe lunatics and of course I’m one of them. It couldn’t be any less true. The people who blindly support whatever Trump says do so by falling in line with Trump. They end up where he is on everything. That includes fiscal conservatism. He’s no fiscal conservative by any stretch. So that is not an extreme right position and puts me to the right of a true Trumper. So I guess I’m crazier than a Trumper… right? Trump has stated he’s for a more restrained forign policy which I agree with. That is not a right wing position. He’s for Authoritarian government as long as he’s in charge which is completely against what I believe. He loves imminent domain which I’m against. Trump is for the war on drugs which I’m against. I’m for criminal justice reform which trump is not in any real sense.

      Bad enough that you boil everyone who opposes you down to one ugly slur but the really laughable thing is that you do all of this to help you make the point that “Trumpers” (Basically everyone in your view), see everyone who disagrees with them as a leftist…. all while seeing everyone who thinks Joe Biden’s policies look a lot like they’ve been influenced by people and positions that until recently even you called “leftist” as a Trumper.

      I think everyone remembers you claiming Joe Biden is a moderate and how nobody in the Democratic party supports the GND or any form of socialism yet here we are. The policies proposed by the administration make Obama look like a Republican and it’s obvious to anyone. What you do time after time is pretend that everything that’s happening is completely normal and anyone who makes a fuss is an alt right nut who is also probably a racist.

      • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by jbear.

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 257

      Well, that’s like saying that Bill Kristol is not much different than Rep Ohmar

      Bill Kristol? The man who expounds about “Pragmatic Liberalism”? You do know the INO in RINO means In Name Only, right?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Well, that’s like saying that Bill Kristol is not much different than Rep Ohmar

      Bill Kristol? The man who expounds about “Pragmatic Liberalism”? You do know the INO in RINO means In Name Only, right?

      JBear would say to you that he is a NEOCON but no I am not familiar with your reference. Care to expand?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      INO in RINO means In Name Only, right?

      Respectfully, Trumpers are the Republicans in name Only.

      The Republican party started as an abolitionist movement, right? The current Trump party ties its roots to the Nixon era Republican party and the embracing of southern Dixiecrats . . ie the OPPOSITE of abolitionists

      some modern Democrats and RINOs are the actual Republicans, if we are talking about the founding principles. Your guys support the lionization of the guys they fought, but in any event are certainly politically RIGHT of Rinos and Democrats

    • Kermit56

      Participant
      Post count: 257

      you guys are the only dopes who need some even cabal to be working against you all the time, who need some AOC to blame.

      Karma telling conservatives they always need someone to blame is hilarious!! Karma has posted ad nauseum blaming Trump for everything wrong under the sun. Talk about projection….

      I have blamed Trump when he deserves blame. I actually blamed the FBI at the beginning of the Russia scandal

      You are a cult member, I think. Perhaps you can find one post by criticizing Trump?

      Perhaps you can find one post by criticizing Trump?

      You know, there were a few times I came to the Cove to criticize Trump but you had already beat me to it.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      you guys are the only dopes who need some even cabal to be working against you all the time, who need some AOC to blame.

      Karma telling conservatives they always need someone to blame is hilarious!! Karma has posted ad nauseum blaming Trump for everything wrong under the sun. Talk about projection….

      I have blamed Trump when he deserves blame. I actually blamed the FBI at the beginning of the Russia scandal

      You are a cult member, I think. Perhaps you can find one post by criticizing Trump?

      Perhaps you can find one post by criticizing Trump?

      You know, there were a few times I came to the Cove to criticize Trump but you had already beat me to it.

      Bwahahaha

      Pull this leg and it plays jingle bells

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