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    • OrygunHBC

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      Post count: 10

      First post… how exciting. Been lurking here for a couple years and finally decided to sign up since this season has been so damn exciting. I'm a Bucs and Ducks fan and I've watched Mariota develop for the past 3 years. I obviously have some bias but here is my honest assessment of him...Big Game Moments:He hasn't really done it yet. He won the Fiesta Bowl over KS, the Alamo Bowl over Texas, and he beat Michigan State this year. IMO, he hasn't shown the big game presence that you expect from a Heisman candidate. He finally beat Stanford this year (last year he was hurt the last 6 games of the season - the Ducks curse - Dixon et al) but they aren't the same team. He can still win his FIRST PAC-12 championship and potentially a NCG but that is still far away... so in terms of big game moments, I'd say the jury is still out on that one. He's got a great record but still.Accuracy:One thing you gotta understand, is Mariota is throwing the WRs that are between 5'10" and 6'1"... Recently we've added some size to our WR core but they are young (sophomores). Marcus has a tendency to sail a few throws here and there but again, with elite WR like in Tampa those are grabs, not airballs (although with our history of drops, who knows.) All in all, I like his accuracy especially on 3rd and 4th down. He throws EXTREMELY well out of the pocket and on the move and doesn't just put his head down when he runs (something Hundley does at UCLA.) He throws a great slant and has a nice touch for the dump offs. He doesn't force anything and always seems to learn from his (few) mistakes. Mobility and toughness:Dude is smart, quick bursts with great straight line speed. Honestly though, his zone option read is remarkably average and he needs to assert himself (at the college level) and take the ball more often. He doesn't take too many big hits, has a nose for the chains and escapes about 2-3 sacks per game. Our offensive line has been decimated by injuries, even with Fisher back so keep in mind you are looking at a QB with an average line, average yet fast WRs, and excellent RBs. He also played through an injury for 6 games last year. He needs to add about 10 pounds because he is too lean for the pros IMO. Again, his threat to run and escape out of the pocket will open up 1v1 coverage for our large targets when he rolls out. Fit for Tampa:This is a great fit IMO. For one, his mobility alone will get you 2-4 more first downs per game. Our o-line has improved IMO, so I think that is a recipe for success. He needs RBs with hands likes Sims (hopefully) because he doesn't force the ball (only 2 INTs this year and something like 7 for his career.) He does have a tendency to put the ball of the ground but with some added strength before the combines I see that being minimized. He can throw on the run or from the pocket. He goes through his reads LIKE A PRO. It is phenomenal to watch. Big targets would be his dream come true. I personally (with a bias) love the fit for Tampa. That's not saying Winston isn't a good fit either; I just like this fit MORE. Oregon:I know people wanna point to Akili Smith and Joey Harrington but this just isn't the same... Smith was TERRIBLE at Oregon and Harrington got a pretty raw deal in the pros. Even still, the talent level just isn't comparable. Keep in mind Oregon PASSED on Maziel to take Mariota. Oregon consistently fields first round talent and this year will be no exception (Grassu, Ekpre, Mariota)... Don't let your desire to relegate it to a "system" team blind you when Oregon has top 10 talent... Seriously, ESPNs top 300 recruiting is a JOKE. Oregon does plug players into their system, but that system is mostly just about speed and space. Mariota is the real deal. TL;DRDucks and Bucs fan who wants Mariota in Tampa for obvious reasons...Pros - athleticism but doesn't rely on it, throws from the pocket and on the run very well, big, strong, smart, great character, goes through reads quickly, limited TOs, and obviously the pure speed.Cons - fumble-prone, throws high at times, no big wins, isn't a loud leader, potential injuries

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1782

      Good shit, thanks.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 336

      I have seen Mariota enough to know I want him on this team, I would take either Mariota or Winston. Let’s say Tedford is healthy enough to come back next year, his offense fits Mariota perfectly, there were rumors Tedford wanted to run a little read option, short passes over the middle and we finally can roll our qb out and let him make some plays

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 717

      Nice read. Id take Winston all day, but would still be tickled pink to land Mariota.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 336

      Would be thrilled to have either one, honestly I think we could have Winston in the middle of the round because it could be like Manziel, he falls due to huge character concerns, with Mariota, you def need a top 5 or top 3 pick to get him.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 801

      Good post on Mariota, thanks for sharing.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      I Think Michigan State was a big game and he lit them up. They have one of the best teams in the country. That defense is the real deal.Good post.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2862

      Well written, to the point and no repetitive gibberish. Nice post, dude.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2682

      Thanks for this. Good read.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Onipa a’

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 814

      Thanks for posting.  However, pass on Mariota.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1098

      I think Mariota has had big games just not in the obvious “marching down the field from your own 20 with 1:00 left with 1 timeout needing a TD to win it” type of game. Oregon’s offense is just so elite that they’re always pulling ahead and just holding on for wins if the games get tight. That's something I do like about him though. He knows to not make costly mistakes when his team's ahead and finish a game off. But he has all the skills to become the next great Captain Comeback type of QB.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 950

      At this rate we’ll have a choice of either him or Winston. I prefer Mariota’s agile, off-field non issues to Winston’s, but I would love either.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 257

      Id love to have him, but we wont get the chance. Winston is gonna stay in school and Mariota will be a Raider or a Jet

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1784

      Thanks for the write up. I will take him. I think you hit the nail on the head as far as what I’ve seen so far of him. Maybe he would hit our bigger receivers in stride the accuracy thing I still question because of that. I also see him get a bit rattled in pressure from his big games. Not something you want to see. However he does look like a decent player and might make a solid nfl qb who can be a mobile weapon. Kind of like the Kaepernick and Russell Wilson mold. Which I wouldn’t mind since our Oline sucks. I will take him. I hope we have a shot at either him or Winston in the draft but our history says we won’t.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 950

      Id love to have him, but we wont get the chance. Winston is gonna stay in school and Mariota will be a Raider or a Jet

      I highly doubt Winston is planning on staying. Also, the Raiders do not need a QB. Carr has a bright future. They need a DT or WR.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 814

      Have any of us seen how effective/ineffective he may be taking snaps from under center?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      The cowboys will be needing a QB soon…

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      The offense is so dumbed down and blasé that Mariota would be an instant spark. But so would a QB who steals crab legs, and that dude can make all the throws, is effectively mobile but needs to learn to protect himself I.e. Slide. Crab Rape is a beast prospect. A winner. Reads the field so he would be able to take advantadge of those massive targets as well. He is an effective pocket climber, who would rather stay than jet. Between the two prospects, I think Winston fits more readily into what the Bucs do and need. Mariota and that offense is not anything remotely close to what is run in Yucland. The Bucs might still be running counter treys. Who knows. But Lovie will never ever ever run a funky offense. One that would be conducive to Marcus thriving. No way. Of the two, hands down Crab Rape Bullhorn is my favorite. Just his ability to read a defense is a huge plus. Also, wasn't Tedford Akili and Joey's coach?  And now he is AWOL in Tampa. Strange.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      F$!k.. I know we’re not drafting him now....it said, "speed in space!"

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 801

      F$!k.. I know we're not drafting him now....it said, "speed in space!"

      Nooooooooooooooo!yFhSdnb.gif

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 79

      Can Mariota reliably hit WRs in tight coverage? I don’t watch much college ball, but I remember a tweet by Daniel Jeremiah (former scout now with ESPN) who pointed out that in one game (can’t remember which one), Mariota might be showing some chinks in his armor when forced to do so. Also, nice post by the OP.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      We can’t fix our O-line in one year , so who better than Mariota , who runs a 4.4  and can not only buy some time but make teams who overcommit to pressure pay?I believe the throwing into coverage thing is overblown.  I see Winston with WR's running wide open all the time also .Winston also made some throws into coverage , but they are throws you SHOULDN'T make into triple coverage. Throws he won't get away with at the next level. Not sure that's a plus. Accuracy is what you want to look for because accuracy translates , and Mariota is accurate . Does he hit his men in stride and on time ? With the rare exception , Yes he does. Don't believe me ?? Ask NFL scouts :"Oregon quarterback Marcus Mariota is widely-regarded as one of the top NFL prospects in the college game, but the way Sports Illustrated hears it, the Ducks star is on even more solid footing than that."Scouts confirmed this week he's the runaway favorite for No. 1 pick," wrote si.com's Pete Thamel"Mariota ranks No. 1 among all NCAA quarterbacks in pass efficiency with a rating of 218.0 (that would translate to a 152.5 rating in the pro efficiency formula). NFL Media analyst Daniel Jeremiah asked five NFL personnel executives for a Mariota comparison, three of whom likened him to San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick. Before the season, NFL Media analyst Bucky Brooks wrote that a faction of scouts believe Mariota would have been the first quarterback chosen in the 2014 draft had he chosen to be part of it.http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000403477/article/report-scouts-like-mariota-as-top-overall-draft-pick

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    • gthrun

      Participant
      Post count: 781

      Nice post OP. Personally I think it is obvious he should be our target. I do not think we’ll get him though. We will most likely be picking 3rd, 4th, or 5th and he will be long gone by then.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      then the question becomes “how much are you willing to pay to move up?”.  losing out is the best thing for this franchise.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      then the question becomes "how much are you willing to pay to move up?".  losing out is the best thing for this franchise.

      It costs too much to move up to #1 . We either have to suck bad enough to be there or play the hand that is dealt to us and hope for the best. Hopefully if a team is in front of us it is J-ville and/or Oakland. They won't pick QB.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      then the question becomes "how much are you willing to pay to move up?".  losing out is the best thing for this franchise.

      It costs too much to move up to #1 . We either have to suck bad enough to be there or play the hand that is dealt to us and hope for the best. Hopefully if a team is in front of us it is J-ville and/or Oakland. They won't pick QB.

      but they could trade it to a team that does needs a QB.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 396

      Nice post OP. Personally I think it is obvious he should be our target. I do not think we'll get him though. We will most likely be picking 3rd, 4th, or 5th and he will be long gone by then.

      Yes, nice OP!  And I agree with CHL.  I think MM will be gone by our pick.  :(

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Mariota is a liability when throwing to receivers that are not wide open.  Even Kelly said that.  Winston throws in to tight areas all the time and has never left the collegiate field a loser.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 6677

      I don’t think there has ever been a 1 win team that picked third.  not even sure about 2nd.  we got this.  just lose baby.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      then the question becomes "how much are you willing to pay to move up?".  losing out is the best thing for this franchise.

      It costs too much to move up to #1 . We either have to suck bad enough to be there or play the hand that is dealt to us and hope for the best. Hopefully if a team is in front of us it is J-ville and/or Oakland. They won't pick QB.

      but they could trade it to a team that does needs a QB.

      Oh I see what you're getting at....

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 396

      Mariota is a liability when throwing to receivers that are not wide open.  Even Kelly said that.  Winston throws in to tight areas all the time and has never left the collegiate field a loser.

      I'm a massive FSU fan and Winston has had great trouble this year with picks.  He's been incredibly sloppy in first halves with bad throws, so your statement about throwing into coverage applies to Winston this year, too.  Personally, I think both of these guys could be special.  In Winston, I see a more athletic Big Ben, and in Mariota I see a more accurate Kap. 

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Mariota is a liability when throwing to receivers that are not wide open.  Even Kelly said that.  Winston throws in to tight areas all the time and has never left the collegiate field a loser.

      I'm a massive FSU fan and Winston has had great trouble this year with picks.  He's been incredibly sloppy in first halves with bad throws, so your statement about throwing into coverage applies to Winston this year, too.  Personally, I think both of these guys could be special.  In Winston, I see a more athletic Big Ben, and in Mariota I see a more accurate Kap.

      Winston has done that early in the game with one exception.  When the game progresses, he is more focused and has always come through.  You realize we were down to the #1 ranked defense on the road last Thursday night by 1 pts. and came back and covered the spread right?Dude has ice water in his veins.  We need that in Tampa.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 396

      Mariota is a liability when throwing to receivers that are not wide open.  Even Kelly said that.  Winston throws in to tight areas all the time and has never left the collegiate field a loser.

      I'm a massive FSU fan and Winston has had great trouble this year with picks.  He's been incredibly sloppy in first halves with bad throws, so your statement about throwing into coverage applies to Winston this year, too.  Personally, I think both of these guys could be special.  In Winston, I see a more athletic Big Ben, and in Mariota I see a more accurate Kap.

      Winston has done that early in the game with one exception.  When the game progresses, he is more focused and has always come through.  You realize we were down to the #1 ranked defense on the road last Thursday night by 1 pts. and came back and covered the spread right?Dude has ice water in his veins.  We need that in Tampa.

      Oh let me be clear, Winston is iceman on the field.  I'm just saying he's had his on the field troubles, too.  I like both guys and TB would be a winning team right now with either, imho.

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Mariota is a liability when throwing to receivers that are not wide open.  Even Kelly said that.  Winston throws in to tight areas all the time and has never left the collegiate field a loser.

      I'm a massive FSU fan and Winston has had great trouble this year with picks.  He's been incredibly sloppy in first halves with bad throws, so your statement about throwing into coverage applies to Winston this year, too.  Personally, I think both of these guys could be special.  In Winston, I see a more athletic Big Ben, and in Mariota I see a more accurate Kap.

      Winston has done that early in the game with one exception.  When the game progresses, he is more focused and has always come through.  You realize we were down to the #1 ranked defense on the road last Thursday night by 1 pts. and came back and covered the spread right?Dude has ice water in his veins.  We need that in Tampa.

      Oh let me be clear, Winston is iceman on the field.  I'm just saying he's had his on the field troubles, too.  I like both guys and TB would be a winning team right now with either, imho.

      I guess I need to watch Mariota outside of his big night games.  I didn't get to see  the Stanford game this past weekend.  I am always skeptical of system QBs as I feel their failure rate is higher than you classic pro drop back QB that mixes in some runs when necessary.  Winston runs a 4.5 so he has more than adequate field speed as well.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      then the question becomes "how much are you willing to pay to move up?".  losing out is the best thing for this franchise.

      It costs too much to move up to #1 . We either have to suck bad enough to be there or play the hand that is dealt to us and hope for the best. Hopefully if a team is in front of us it is J-ville and/or Oakland. They won't pick QB.

      but they could trade it to a team that does needs a QB.

      Jerry Jones would trade into the 1st pick in a heart beat and I expect him to try.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Do you realize how much it would take to trade to #1 from where the Cowboys will be picking ? King's Ransom.Romo aint that bad....

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      Mariota is a liability when throwing to receivers that are not wide open.  Even Kelly said that.  Winston throws in to tight areas all the time and has never left the collegiate field a loser.

      I'm a massive FSU fan and Winston has had great trouble this year with picks.  He's been incredibly sloppy in first halves with bad throws, so your statement about throwing into coverage applies to Winston this year, too.  Personally, I think both of these guys could be special.  In Winston, I see a more athletic Big Ben, and in Mariota I see a more accurate Kap.

      Winston has done that early in the game with one exception.  When the game progresses, he is more focused and has always come through.  You realize we were down to the #1 ranked defense on the road last Thursday night by 1 pts. and came back and covered the spread right?Dude has ice water in his veins.  We need that in Tampa.

      Oh let me be clear, Winston is iceman on the field.  I'm just saying he's had his on the field troubles, too.  I like both guys and TB would be a winning team right now with either, imho.

      I guess I need to watch Mariota outside of his big night games.  I didn't get to see  the Stanford game this past weekend.  I am always skeptical of system QBs as I feel their failure rate is higher than you classic pro drop back QB that mixes in some runs when necessary.  Winston runs a 4.5 so he has more than adequate field speed as well.

      maybe back when he weighed 200 pounds coming out of high school.  no way he runs that today.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      Mariota is a liability when throwing to receivers that are not wide open.  Even Kelly said that.  Winston throws in to tight areas all the time and has never left the collegiate field a loser.

      I'm a massive FSU fan and Winston has had great trouble this year with picks.  He's been incredibly sloppy in first halves with bad throws, so your statement about throwing into coverage applies to Winston this year, too.  Personally, I think both of these guys could be special.  In Winston, I see a more athletic Big Ben, and in Mariota I see a more accurate Kap.

      Winston has done that early in the game with one exception.  When the game progresses, he is more focused and has always come through.  You realize we were down to the #1 ranked defense on the road last Thursday night by 1 pts. and came back and covered the spread right?Dude has ice water in his veins.  We need that in Tampa.

      Oh let me be clear, Winston is iceman on the field.  I'm just saying he's had his on the field troubles, too.  I like both guys and TB would be a winning team right now with either, imho.

      I guess I need to watch Mariota outside of his big night games.  I didn't get to see  the Stanford game this past weekend.  I am always skeptical of system QBs as I feel their failure rate is higher than you classic pro drop back QB that mixes in some runs when necessary.  Winston runs a 4.5 so he has more than adequate field speed as well.

      maybe back when he weighed 200 pounds coming out of high school.  no way he runs that today.

      who cares how fast he runs? Luck ran a 4.67 at the Combine. id say he runs pretty well in the NFL. QBs that run a 4.7 or less are plenty fast. i dont want my QB running around unless he absolutely has to. Winston looks like he runs about a 4.6 which gets the job donehave you ever seen Brady and Manning run? sap moves faster on a cold day. id rather have a guy who just gets rid of the ball and doesnt worry abot running around

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Yeah there is no way Winston is running a 4.5 . Dude doesnt run fluidly , he lumbers.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      Yeah there is no way Winston is running a 4.5 . Dude doesnt run fluidly , he lumbers.

      he runs like a newborn horse. it make me laugh every time i see him do it

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Yeah there is no way Winston is running a 4.5 . Dude doesnt run fluidly , he lumbers.

      he runs like a newborn horse. it make me laugh every time i see him do it

      Cue his run vs. Oklahoma St.  He can do all of it at an NFL level.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1658

      I’m deeply skeptical of Winston running a 4.5 40, but that’s not a negative at *all*.  Lumbering though he may be, I’d call his mobility a plus.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4344

      I'm deeply skeptical of Winston running a 4.5 40, but that's not a negative at *all*.  Lumbering though he may be, I'd call his mobility a plus.

      yeah he doesnt run like Mariota or Kaepernick but he runs well enough to be a threat

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Hed run better if he got in better shape also. Hes a litttle chubby this season.. Too many crab legs perhaps.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1658

      Hed run better if he got in better shape also. Hes a litttle chubby this season.. Too many crab legs perhaps.

      Just so long as he doesn't get his dieting advice from Freeman.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Freeman was amazing. Only person ive ever seen lose weight and get slower.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4344

      Freeman was amazing. Only person ive ever seen lose weight and get slower.

      SeriouslyFat Freeman was better than skinny Freeman. not sure how that happens

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1845

      The cowboys will be needing a QB soon...

      Glennon?

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 6677

      Freeman was amazing. Only person ive ever seen lose weight and get slower.

      SeriouslyFat Freeman was better than skinny Freeman. not sure how that happens

      fat Free broke a lot of tackles.  skinny Free was afraid to take hits.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Freeman was amazing. Only person ive ever seen lose weight and get slower.

      SeriouslyFat Freeman was better than skinny Freeman. not sure how that happens

      fat Free broke a lot of tackles.  skinny Free was afraid to take hits.

      His tambourine man says "thats a lie".

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1498

      Take the pros and the cons of both Winston and Mariota and let’s say they are both equals. Now the desicion becomes less about the player and more about the fit.Does anyone think Lovie and Mariota make sense? I love Mariota's game, and his style of play is very exciting, but I fear he would be shackled. Lovie has shown his inability to scheme for his players strengths, and would only cram a square peg into a round hole.I prefer Mariota, but Winston is a better fit on the field.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      We can't fix our O-line in one year , so who better than Mariota , who runs a 4.4  and can not only buy some time but make teams who overcommit to pressure pay?I believe the throwing into coverage thing is overblown.  I see Winston with WR's running wide open all the time also .Winston also made some throws into coverage , but they are throws you SHOULDN'T make into triple coverage. Throws he won't get away with at the next level. Not sure that's a plus. Accuracy is what you want to look for because accuracy translates , and Mariota is accurate . Does he hit his men in stride and on time ? With the rare exception , Yes he does. Don't believe me ?? Ask NFL scouts :"Oregon quarterback Marcus Mariota is widely-regarded as one of the top NFL prospects in the college game, but the way Sports Illustrated hears it, the Ducks star is on even more solid footing than that."Scouts confirmed this week he's the runaway favorite for No. 1 pick," wrote si.com's Pete Thamel"Mariota ranks No. 1 among all NCAA quarterbacks in pass efficiency with a rating of 218.0 (that would translate to a 152.5 rating in the pro efficiency formula). NFL Media analyst Daniel Jeremiah asked five NFL personnel executives for a Mariota comparison, three of whom likened him to San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick. Before the season, NFL Media analyst Bucky Brooks wrote that a faction of scouts believe Mariota would have been the first quarterback chosen in the 2014 draft had he chosen to be part of it.http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000403477/article/report-scouts-like-mariota-as-top-overall-draft-pick

      This: "Scouts confirmed this week he's the runaway favorite for No. 1 pick," wrote si.com's Pete Thamel"doesn't jive with this... "NFL Media analyst Daniel Jeremiah asked five NFL personnel executives for a Mariota comparison, three of whom likened him to San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick."Kaepernick isn't a franchise QB.  He's a decent holdover until one comes along.Also, OP lost me on: "...with elite WR like in Tampa..."

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    • mjarvis1

      Participant
      Post count: 544

      I’d call Evans and Jackson something *close* to elite… perhaps elite wasn’t the right wording, especially since we don’t have a true slot and a TE that needs a lot of work…However, I think mobility is just what this team needs from the QB position. I'm not just talking about scrambling, but rather being able to step up in the pocket and sense pressure; to squirm out of tackles and make a broken play somehow work... Winston could probably do that too, but I think Mariota has instincts at another level.Obviously everyone has their opinion on the matter but I think character is huge... even though Mariota isn't as vocal as I would like during games, he is HIGHLY respected by his peers, staff and teammates... That goes a long way; great locker room guy. In terms of throwing into windows and always throwing to "wide open targets"... this just makes me laugh... Seriously, how many of you ACTUALLY watch west coast football? That isn't meant to be condescending... just a real question. The time difference and all; you might have to stay up till 1 or 2 AM to watch some Ducks games. The point is, PAC-12 defenses are geared to stop the PASS. SEC are geared to stop the RUN. This is how they are built. SO... IMHO, that is why PAC-12 QBs tend to be successful in the NFL more often than some other conferences. The defenses they face are similar to the NFL... same mentality of pass first etc...Mariota doesn't throw into tight windows because he goes through his reads better than anyone in the country. He FINDS the wide open WR because he buys time and DBs cannot cover 4.3-4.4 speed for more than 4-5 seconds. This is why I say he has that IT factor. Dude is smart...So in terms of fit, yeah I think a character guy who played PAC-12 QB football (Tedford - if he stays) is a great fit. IMHO, the best QBs are from the PAC-12 and there is a reason for it. ...and yes I know there is probably some homerism in there but what can you do?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      I'd call Evans and Jackson something *close* to elite... perhaps elite wasn't the right wording, especially since we don't have a true slot and a TE that needs a lot of work...However, I think mobility is just what this team needs from the QB position. I'm not just talking about scrambling, but rather being able to step up in the pocket and sense pressure; to squirm out of tackles and make a broken play somehow work... Winston could probably do that too, but I think Mariota has instincts at another level.Obviously everyone has their opinion on the matter but I think character is huge... even though Mariota isn't as vocal as I would like during games, he is HIGHLY respected by his peers, staff and teammates... That goes a long way; great locker room guy. In terms of throwing into windows and always throwing to "wide open targets"... this just makes me laugh... Seriously, how many of you ACTUALLY watch west coast football? That isn't meant to be condescending... just a real question. The time difference and all; you might have to stay up till 1 or 2 AM to watch some Ducks games. The point is, PAC-12 defenses are geared to stop the PASS. SEC are geared to stop the RUN. This is how they are built. SO... IMHO, that is why PAC-12 QBs tend to be successful in the NFL more often than some other conferences. The defenses they face are similar to the NFL... same mentality of pass first etc...Mariota doesn't throw into tight windows because he goes through his reads better than anyone in the country. He FINDS the wide open WR because he buys time and DBs cannot cover 4.3-4.4 speed for more than 4-5 seconds. This is why I say he has that IT factor. Dude is smart...So in terms of fit, yeah I think a character guy who played PAC-12 QB football (Tedford - if he stays) is a great fit. IMHO, the best QBs are from the PAC-12 and there is a reason for it. ...and yes I know there is probably some homerism in there but what can you do?

      UH OHBIG TIME FANBOY ALERT

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    • mjarvis1

      Participant
      Post count: 544

      Was that ever in question? I’ve stated a couple times that I have some bias, but I’ve also watched him play more than anyone on this board…This IS a message board, so my suggestion to you would be to take anything anyone says with a grain of salt. If you think my "fanboy" attitude is getting in the way of my judgement, feel free to explain how...  :D

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      Was that ever in question? I've stated a couple times that I have some bias, but I've also watched him play more than anyone on this board...This IS a message board, so my suggestion to you would be to take anything anyone says with a grain of salt. If you think my "fanboy" attitude is getting in the way of my judgement, feel free to explain how...  :D

      SOME bias? hahaha understatement of the yearyou are in the same league as RUtroll and rodtoastjones with their undying love for Winstonim an FSU alum but i dont stoop to the depths they do

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    • mjarvis1

      Participant
      Post count: 544

      great insight… have you ever considered being a MNF commentator?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      great insight... have you ever considered being a MNF commentator?

      NoTirico and Gruden do a great job

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      great insight... have you ever considered being a MNF commentator?

      You are completely full of crap. GTFO.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Im firmly on the draft Winston bandwagon, but mariota would certainly be a nice consolation. I just worry about how quickly his game will translate

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      great insight... have you ever considered being a MNF commentator?

      You are completely full of crap. GTFO.

      look who's talking.Lulz

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 184

      i hope we are in a position to trade down 5 spots, pick crab rape and get an extra 2nd out of the deal

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      Im firmly on the draft Winston bandwagon, but mariota would certainly be a nice consolation. I just worry about how quickly his game will translate

      you shouldnt worry. the OP assured us that hes the ideal NFL QB for this yeam and theres no way he could possibly fail

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 184

      Freeman was amazing. Only person ive ever seen lose weight and get slower.

      SeriouslyFat Freeman was better than skinny Freeman. not sure how that happens

      because fat freeman was eating burritos and buckets of fried bird, skinny freeman was eating handfulls of molly and hair gel.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      I'd call Evans and Jackson something *close* to elite... perhaps elite wasn't the right wording, especially since we don't have a true slot and a TE that needs a lot of work...

      Evans is a LOT closer to "elite" than Jackson and Evans isn't even "close" at all.  Currently, they're both legitimate starters in the NFL.  I don't know if Jackson will be next year.  In a couple years can Evans be elite?  Yeah, he "might", but to say he's even close right now is a stretch.  Heck, both Michael Clayton and Mike Williams both had better rookie seasons than what Evans is right now.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      But I JUST changed to Slowness in Crowds from Speed in Space…. everything I know is wrong =(

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    • mjarvis1

      Participant
      Post count: 544

      I don’t really understand how people can be so venomous and inflammatory on a message board… It’s a f***ing opinion one person has. If you don’t agree with it, say why or just ignore it all together. Vincent Jackson has ELITE WR numbers over the past 6 seasons. His consistency in unmatched. Yes, I too get frustrated with the dropped balls and maybe for some people that only makes him "solid" but still... He's been an elite #1 WR for most of his career. He's had Freeman, McCown, and Glennon getting him the ball over his tenure here and he still has managed to produce. IMO, he is in the echelon right below elite. Jury is still out on Evans with his injuries but there are about 18 teams in the NFL that would trade their #1 and #2 WRs for ours in a HEARTBEAT.Mariota is not a system QB. If anything, you should evaluate him based on the talent around him... If you are going to use the "system" against him, then remember that he is throwing to, as I said before, undersized and young WRs with an average-at-best o-line. PAC-12 QBs (currently)... Just off the top of my head, current starters: Luck, Rodgers, Foles, and Palmer... combined record of 24-9. IMO, Rodgers and Luck are the two best QBs in the game in terms of building a team around and production. ACC... cmon guys... it's the 4th best conference behind SEC, PAC-12 and BIG 12... They are on par or slightly better than the BIG 10. So SOS for Mariota vs Winston.I think Winston can be a stud and I can see why a Florida-based message board would want a Florida St. player... so don't think that I wouldn't be happy with us drafting him as well. I'm just saying why I think Mariota will be the better pro. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Orygun – don’t get caught up with the idiots.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Solid post sir.Don't let those FSU sack swingers bother you too much. They're all legally blind to everything over there... I mean they can see but barely. P.O.P. Hold it down

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    • mjarvis1

      Participant
      Post count: 544

      I just wanna have a good discussion and I welcome a difference of opinion if it’s respectful and well informed

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      I just wanna have a good discussion and I welcome a difference of opinion if it's respectful and well informed

      You won't find much of that here... we do have great poo fights tho.Stay around to watch Dolorous do his thing.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      (1)Mariota is not a system QB. If anything, you should evaluate him based on the talent around him... If you are going to use the "system" against him, then remember that he is throwing to, as I said before, undersized and young WRs with an average-at-best o-line. (2)PAC-12 QBs (currently)... Just off the top of my head, current starters: Luck, Rodgers, Foles, and Palmer... combined record of 24-9. IMO, Rodgers and Luck are the two best QBs in the game in terms of building a team around and production. (3)ACC... cmon guys... it's the 4th best conference behind SEC, PAC-12 and BIG 12... They are on par or slightly better than the BIG 10. So SOS for Mariota vs Winston.

      1. Oregon runs a system offense so just stop. hes a system qb2. You said earlier we cant point to Smith and Harrington's faulures as a basis why Oregon's qbs suck so using your reasonging you can point to other PAC qbs success as a determining factor of success3. according to this site FSU's SOS > Oregon's SOS. wrong againhttp://www.fbschedules.com/2014/04/2014-college-football-strength-of-schedule-ncaa-method/i honestly dont care who we take, just pointing out holes in your argument. i could also go after a few other points youve made but i dont want to be labeled a "troll" for disagreeing with you

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    • rrosemarie8

      Participant
      Post count: 508

      The offense is so dumbed down and blasé that Mariota would be an instant spark. But so would a QB who steals crab legs, and that dude can make all the throws, is effectively mobile but needs to learn to protect himself I.e. Slide. Crab Rape is a beast prospect. A winner. Reads the field so he would be able to take advantadge of those massive targets as well. He is an effective pocket climber, who would rather stay than jet. Between the two prospects, I think Winston fits more readily into what the Bucs do and need. Mariota and that offense is not anything remotely close to what is run in Yucland. The Bucs might still be running counter treys. Who knows. But Lovie will never ever ever run a funky offense. One that would be conducive to Marcus thriving. No way. Of the two, hands down Crab Rape Bullhorn is my favorite. Just his ability to read a defense is a huge plus. Also, wasn't Tedford Akili and Joey's coach?  And now he is AWOL in Tampa. Strange.

      Your effort to make a crab leg thievery nickname failed terribly. Crab rape? What the hell?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Every QB plays in a system.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      Every QB plays in a system.

      let me rephraseNFL pro style system. the one used by most teams in the leaguehistory has shown that guys coming out of systems like Oregon, Texas Tech, etc have issues adjusting to the NFL while guys who come from Stanford, UGA, Cal, etc are prepared and can step in from day 1 and be effective.theres nothing to say a guy like Mariotta cant do it, just that history is against him

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    • mdclarie

      Participant
      Post count: 867

      then the question becomes "how much are you willing to pay to move up?".  losing out is the best thing for this franchise.

      It costs too much to move up to #1 . We either have to suck bad enough to be there or play the hand that is dealt to us and hope for the best. Hopefully if a team is in front of us it is J-ville and/or Oakland. They won't pick QB.

      If Oakland is there and they have the #1 pick and don't want QB they will trade back to someone (like us) that does want QB. Question is what will it take and what are we willing to stomache to move from 3/4 to 1? If we're at 7-10 range it'll be impossible it will only be possible if we're in the 2-5 range to move up. For that I think a 2015 2nd and a 2016 2nd may be enough.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      No one ever trades up to #1 . It cost too much.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      then the question becomes "how much are you willing to pay to move up?".  losing out is the best thing for this franchise.

      It costs too much to move up to #1 . We either have to suck bad enough to be there or play the hand that is dealt to us and hope for the best. Hopefully if a team is in front of us it is J-ville and/or Oakland. They won't pick QB.

      If Oakland is there and they have the #1 pick and don't want QB they will trade back to someone (like us) that does want QB. Question is what will it take and what are we willing to stomache to move from 3/4 to 1? If we're at 7-10 range it'll be impossible it will only be possible if we're in the 2-5 range to move up. For that I think a 2015 2nd and a 2016 2nd may be enough.

      if we trade up from 3 to 1 i will kill someone. there is zero chance that both Jacksonville and Oakland take a QB this year

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Every QB plays in a system.

      let me rephraseNFL pro style system. the one used by most teams in the leaguehistory has shown that guys coming out of systems like Oregon, Texas Tech, etc have issues adjusting to the NFL while guys who come from Stanford, UGA, Cal, etc are prepared and can step in from day 1 and be effective.theres nothing to say a guy like Mariotta cant do it, just that history is against him

      That whole system argument is a load of crap to me. When you get to the league either you can play or you can't. EJ Manuel and Christian Ponder played you guys blessed pro style offense and look at them. Cam didn't play in a pro style and he almost broke the stat sheets a few games in his rookie year. What kind of offense did Andy Dalton and Joe Flacco play in... Who the hell knows. Nick Foles still plays in the spread and he's doing just fine.

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Every QB plays in a system.

      Pro-style is called that for a reason.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Every QB plays in a system.

      Pro-style is called that for a reason.

      That's what they called it when ponder and manuel played in it?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Many pro teams also run option read now. Chip Kelly also took Oregon’s “system” to the pros and it works.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      Every QB plays in a system.

      let me rephraseNFL pro style system. the one used by most teams in the leaguehistory has shown that guys coming out of systems like Oregon, Texas Tech, etc have issues adjusting to the NFL while guys who come from Stanford, UGA, Cal, etc are prepared and can step in from day 1 and be effective.theres nothing to say a guy like Mariotta cant do it, just that history is against him

      That whole system argument is a load of crap to me. When you get to the league either you can play or you can't. EJ Manuel and Christian Ponder played you guys blessed pro style offense and look at them. Cam didn't play in a pro style and he almost broke the stat sheets a few games in his rookie year. What kind of offense did Andy Dalton and Joe Flacco play in... Who the hell knows. Nick Foles still plays in the spread and he's doing just fine.

      Manuel and Ponder are terrible examples. they shouldnt have been taken in the 1st round and everyone knows that. im just putting it forward that successful qbs in the league came out of the Pro set where the guys who ran a spread are much less commonspread qbs who have workedNewtonFolesKaepernickthats iti wont put Dalton there because i dont think TCU was a spread team back then like they are now.pro set QBsRodgersLuckRyanRiversboth ManningsBradyHoyerRoethlisbergerWilsonBreesCutlerBridgewaterStaffordthen youve got guys like Romo and Flacco who i cant tell you what offense they ran. i think Flacco was a pro set QBim just illustrating that a pro set QB is a safer bet. doesnt always work out that way but the success rate is a lot higher. i just worry that a guy like Mariotta ends up like RGIII, hurt, figured out, and busted inside of 3 years

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Every QB plays in a system.

      let me rephraseNFL pro style system. the one used by most teams in the leaguehistory has shown that guys coming out of systems like Oregon, Texas Tech, etc have issues adjusting to the NFL while guys who come from Stanford, UGA, Cal, etc are prepared and can step in from day 1 and be effective.theres nothing to say a guy like Mariotta cant do it, just that history is against him

      That whole system argument is a load of crap to me. When you get to the league either you can play or you can't. EJ Manuel and Christian Ponder played you guys blessed pro style offense and look at them. Cam didn't play in a pro style and he almost broke the stat sheets a few games in his rookie year. What kind of offense did Andy Dalton and Joe Flacco play in... Who the hell knows. Nick Foles still plays in the spread and he's doing just fine.

      Manuel and Ponder are terrible examples. they shouldnt have been taken in the 1st round and everyone knows that. im just putting it forward that successful qbs in the league came out of the Pro set where the guys who ran a spread are much less commonspread qbs who have workedNewtonFolesKaepernickthats iti wont put Dalton there because i dont think TCU was a spread team back then like they are now.pro set QBsRodgersLuckRyanRiversboth ManningsBradyHoyerRoethlisbergerWilsonBreesCutlerBridgewaterStaffordthen youve got guys like Romo and Flacco who i cant tell you what offense they ran. i think Flacco was a pro set QBim just illustrating that a pro set QB is a safer bet. doesnt always work out that way but the success rate is a lot higher. i just worry that a guy like Mariotta ends up like RGIII, hurt, figured out, and busted inside of 3 years

      Newton, Foles and Kap = 0 rings, none, nada, zilch - and that is not going to change anytime soon. Give me a drop back passer with some mobility and let me whoop your ass every day of the week.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      Vincent Jackson has ELITE WR numbers over the past 6 seasons. His consistency in unmatched. Yes, I too get frustrated with the dropped balls and maybe for some people that only makes him "solid" but still... He's been an elite #1 WR for most of his career. He's had Freeman, McCown, and Glennon getting him the ball over his tenure here and he still has managed to produce. IMO, he is in the echelon right below elite. Jury is still out on Evans with his injuries but there are about 18 teams in the NFL that would trade their #1 and #2 WRs for ours in a HEARTBEAT.

      I'm only responding to this, since this was the only issue I had.  No, Vincent Jackson is not elite.  That's plain and simple.  The elite WR's in this league are (in no particular order), Calvin Johnson, Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas, Antonio Brown, A.J. Green, Julio Jones, and Josh Gordon.  The next level WR's are Jeremy Maclin, Pierre Garcon, TY Hilton, Brandon Marshall Jordy Nelson, and Alshon Jeffery.  The next group are the guys who are in the "prove it" stage or the declining veterans stage like V-Jax, Marques Colston, Dwayne Bowe, Emmanual Sanders, Keenan Allen, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Crabtree, Boldin, Decker, DeSean Jackson, Golden Tate, Edalman, and alike (this isn't really the end of that group).  Jackson is a "nice" receiver, that's it.  He's not elite, he's not even a notch below.  He's a declining veteran who's best days are behind him and he's AT BEST a teams #2 WR and on a good / playoff team, a #3.  In that group I listed him in, I'd probably take almost every one of them over Jackson.  With Colston now having 2 consecutive bad seasons, I think he's about done being a legit #2 starter... Boldin as well.  They're probably the only two in that group I listed that I'd take Jackson over.  Now, the homers on this board like you won't agree, but the significant majority around the country will.Also, I think you're reaching with extremely long arms if you think there are 18 teams that would rather have our top 2 receivers than the one's they have.  Off the top of my head, I'll go with Minnesota, St. Louis, Jets, and Oakland.  I'll give a push to K.C, Houston, Tennessee, Carolina, and San Francisco.  I'm pretty sure almost every team would love to have the potential of Mike Evans, but as of right now, not really many teams would want Vincent Jackson... especially at his price.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Every QB plays in a system.

      let me rephraseNFL pro style system. the one used by most teams in the leaguehistory has shown that guys coming out of systems like Oregon, Texas Tech, etc have issues adjusting to the NFL while guys who come from Stanford, UGA, Cal, etc are prepared and can step in from day 1 and be effective.theres nothing to say a guy like Mariotta cant do it, just that history is against him

      That whole system argument is a load of crap to me. When you get to the league either you can play or you can't. EJ Manuel and Christian Ponder played you guys blessed pro style offense and look at them. Cam didn't play in a pro style and he almost broke the stat sheets a few games in his rookie year. What kind of offense did Andy Dalton and Joe Flacco play in... Who the hell knows. Nick Foles still plays in the spread and he's doing just fine.

      Manuel and Ponder are terrible examples. they shouldnt have been taken in the 1st round and everyone knows that. im just putting it forward that successful qbs in the league came out of the Pro set where the guys who ran a spread are much less commonspread qbs who have workedNewtonFolesKaepernickthats iti wont put Dalton there because i dont think TCU was a spread team back then like they are now.pro set QBsRodgersLuckRyanRiversboth ManningsBradyHoyerRoethlisbergerWilsonBreesCutlerBridgewaterStaffordthen youve got guys like Romo and Flacco who i cant tell you what offense they ran. i think Flacco was a pro set QBim just illustrating that a pro set QB is a safer bet. doesnt always work out that way but the success rate is a lot higher. i just worry that a guy like Mariotta ends up like RGIII, hurt, figured out, and busted inside of 3 years

      either you can play or you can’t when you get to the league.. you’re college offense doesn’t matter. Pro style QBs bust too.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      Every QB plays in a system.

      let me rephraseNFL pro style system. the one used by most teams in the leaguehistory has shown that guys coming out of systems like Oregon, Texas Tech, etc have issues adjusting to the NFL while guys who come from Stanford, UGA, Cal, etc are prepared and can step in from day 1 and be effective.theres nothing to say a guy like Mariotta cant do it, just that history is against him

      That whole system argument is a load of crap to me. When you get to the league either you can play or you can't. EJ Manuel and Christian Ponder played you guys blessed pro style offense and look at them. Cam didn't play in a pro style and he almost broke the stat sheets a few games in his rookie year. What kind of offense did Andy Dalton and Joe Flacco play in... Who the hell knows. Nick Foles still plays in the spread and he's doing just fine.

      Manuel and Ponder are terrible examples. they shouldnt have been taken in the 1st round and everyone knows that. im just putting it forward that successful qbs in the league came out of the Pro set where the guys who ran a spread are much less commonspread qbs who have workedNewtonFolesKaepernickthats iti wont put Dalton there because i dont think TCU was a spread team back then like they are now.pro set QBsRodgersLuckRyanRiversboth ManningsBradyHoyerRoethlisbergerWilsonBreesCutlerBridgewaterStaffordthen youve got guys like Romo and Flacco who i cant tell you what offense they ran. i think Flacco was a pro set QBim just illustrating that a pro set QB is a safer bet. doesnt always work out that way but the success rate is a lot higher. i just worry that a guy like Mariotta ends up like RGIII, hurt, figured out, and busted inside of 3 years

      either you can play or you can't when you get to the league.. you're college offense doesn't matter. Pro style QBs bust too.

      True

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      “Rapey crablegs” was the best I’ve heard yet. Hilarious.I was willing to overlook manziel's transgressions, but with winston it's another story. Ripping off colleges and making money gestures with your hands is one thing, but being accused of rape, stealing a redundant item, and then let everyone (in public setting) listen to you say, "f@ck her in her p@$$y" is another thing entirely.I'm a desperate enough buc fan that I would gladly support either qb, but IF we draft winston, I know I'll be worried.Truthfully, both are worrisome in their own ways, it's just that winston has that extra baggage of, "will he act right once he gets paid?" Idk if his mindset could withstand the awesome impact that that money will do to him.Who knows really...maybe he respects the money and role that he was blessed to be put in? If we draft him, I hope so.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      "Rapey crablegs" was the best I've heard yet. Hilarious.I was willing to overlook manziel's transgressions, but with winston it's another story. Ripping off colleges and making money gestures with your hands is one thing, but being accused of rape, stealing a redundant item, and then let everyone (in public setting) listen to you say, "f@ck her in her p@$$y" is another thing entirely.I'm a desperate enough buc fan that I would gladly support either qb, but IF we draft winston, I know I'll be worried.Truthfully, both are worrisome in their own ways, it's just that winston has that extra baggage of, "will he act right once he gets paid?" Idk if his mindset could withstand the awesome impact that that money will do to him.Who knows really...maybe he respects the money and role that he was blessed to be put in? If we draft him, I hope so.

      Yeah, I agree with almost everything you've said here.  Nicely put.

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Every QB plays in a system.

      let me rephraseNFL pro style system. the one used by most teams in the leaguehistory has shown that guys coming out of systems like Oregon, Texas Tech, etc have issues adjusting to the NFL while guys who come from Stanford, UGA, Cal, etc are prepared and can step in from day 1 and be effective.theres nothing to say a guy like Mariotta cant do it, just that history is against him

      That whole system argument is a load of crap to me. When you get to the league either you can play or you can't. EJ Manuel and Christian Ponder played you guys blessed pro style offense and look at them. Cam didn't play in a pro style and he almost broke the stat sheets a few games in his rookie year. What kind of offense did Andy Dalton and Joe Flacco play in... Who the hell knows. Nick Foles still plays in the spread and he's doing just fine.

      Manuel and Ponder are terrible examples. they shouldnt have been taken in the 1st round and everyone knows that. im just putting it forward that successful qbs in the league came out of the Pro set where the guys who ran a spread are much less commonspread qbs who have workedNewtonFolesKaepernickthats iti wont put Dalton there because i dont think TCU was a spread team back then like they are now.pro set QBsRodgersLuckRyanRiversboth ManningsBradyHoyerRoethlisbergerWilsonBreesCutlerBridgewaterStaffordthen youve got guys like Romo and Flacco who i cant tell you what offense they ran. i think Flacco was a pro set QBim just illustrating that a pro set QB is a safer bet. doesnt always work out that way but the success rate is a lot higher. i just worry that a guy like Mariotta ends up like RGIII, hurt, figured out, and busted inside of 3 years

      either you can play or you can't when you get to the league.. you're college offense doesn't matter. Pro style QBs bust too.

      Of course they do, there is just no example of a system QB winning the super bowl.  I'll let some other franchise lead with that experiment thank you.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      I could easily see dungy taking a mentor role with winston and steering lovie towards him.I agree that a good qb will be a good qb no matter what.  But stats can certainly be inflated or held back.  And going from the gun 100% against college defenses to 3, 5, and 7 snap drops doesn't happen overnight.  From all accounts mariota should have no trouble transistioning, but Bucs fans are known to want immediate results. I'll certainly be happy with either guy, I'll be more afraid that lovie shackles him.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Every QB plays in a system.

      let me rephraseNFL pro style system. the one used by most teams in the leaguehistory has shown that guys coming out of systems like Oregon, Texas Tech, etc have issues adjusting to the NFL while guys who come from Stanford, UGA, Cal, etc are prepared and can step in from day 1 and be effective.theres nothing to say a guy like Mariotta cant do it, just that history is against him

      That whole system argument is a load of crap to me. When you get to the league either you can play or you can't. EJ Manuel and Christian Ponder played you guys blessed pro style offense and look at them. Cam didn't play in a pro style and he almost broke the stat sheets a few games in his rookie year. What kind of offense did Andy Dalton and Joe Flacco play in... Who the hell knows. Nick Foles still plays in the spread and he's doing just fine.

      Manuel and Ponder are terrible examples. they shouldnt have been taken in the 1st round and everyone knows that. im just putting it forward that successful qbs in the league came out of the Pro set where the guys who ran a spread are much less commonspread qbs who have workedNewtonFolesKaepernickthats iti wont put Dalton there because i dont think TCU was a spread team back then like they are now.pro set QBsRodgersLuckRyanRiversboth ManningsBradyHoyerRoethlisbergerWilsonBreesCutlerBridgewaterStaffordthen youve got guys like Romo and Flacco who i cant tell you what offense they ran. i think Flacco was a pro set QBim just illustrating that a pro set QB is a safer bet. doesnt always work out that way but the success rate is a lot higher. i just worry that a guy like Mariotta ends up like RGIII, hurt, figured out, and busted inside of 3 years

      either you can play or you can't when you get to the league.. you're college offense doesn't matter. Pro style QBs bust too.

      Of course they do, there is just no example of a system QB winning the super bowl.  I'll let some other franchise lead with that experiment thank you.

      every QB plays in a system.

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      every QB plays in a system.

      Not true.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      I'll certainly be happy with either guy, I'll be more afraid that lovie shackles him.

      this is what concerns me most

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      I'll certainly be happy with either guy, I'll be more afraid that lovie shackles him.

      this is what concerns me most

      lovie isn't going to tell him to play like crap.If he's good,  he's going to thrive regardless.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      I'll certainly be happy with either guy, I'll be more afraid that lovie shackles him.

      this is what concerns me most

      lovie isn't going to tell him to play like crap.If he's good,  he's going to thrive regardless.

      the coaches have to take the training wheels off and not be conservative though. Lovie wants to run the ball twice is much as he throws it and it wastes a talented QB if he continues that trend

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      I'll certainly be happy with either guy, I'll be more afraid that lovie shackles him.

      this is what concerns me most

      lovie isn't going to tell him to play like crap.If he's good,  he's going to thrive regardless.

      the coaches have to take the training wheels off and not be conservative though. Lovie wants to run the ball twice is much as he throws it and it wastes a talented QB if he continues that trend

      It leaves us in poor down and distance on 3rd down also , and the percentages show that is tough even on elite QB's .

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      I'll certainly be happy with either guy, I'll be more afraid that lovie shackles him.

      this is what concerns me most

      lovie isn't going to tell him to play like crap.If he's good,  he's going to thrive regardless.

      the coaches have to take the training wheels off and not be conservative though. Lovie wants to run the ball twice is much as he throws it and it wastes a talented QB if he continues that trend

      Teams can load up on the run. You think Lovie is going to keep running the ball in to a stacked front while having a good QB and two mismatches at WR?Sometimes I think some of you believe he can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1419

      dude, dex, from one FSU alum to another, give the OP a friggin breakhe came in here openly stating his bias, wrote out a pretty fair scouting report and hasn't necessarily attacked anybody and you're all over his ass like he beat up your grandmotherappreciate your input, ogygunHBC

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Dex doesn’t give breaks… thats why he’ll never be able to run Tallahassee PD or FSU.

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    • mjarvis1

      Participant
      Post count: 544

      team that have a worse #1 and #2 WR than us (in combined talent):NY Giants - especially with Cruz gone, Beckham and Randle... burfWashington Redskins - Garcon and Jackson... I'll Evans and V Jackson but you could make an argument either waySF 49ers - Boldin and Crabtree... debatable again but Boldin is worse than Jackson and Crabtree vs Evans I don't knowSeattle SeaH - Balwin and Kerse... no, just noM Vikings - Jennings and Patterson... I think both of our WRs are betterPanthers - outside of the FS rookie, they have nothingSaints - call me crazy but Cooks and Colsten... mehBuffalo - Watkins and Evans who knows... the rest of their WRs are average or belowDolphins - Wallace is just a poor man's DeSean J... not sure who else they have reallyPatriots - you wanna talk about a system... plug any of their WRs in somewhere else and they are terribleJets - might have the worst WR core in football even with the Decker upgradeKC Chiefs - nobody but with my homerism I do like their slot guy, DAT haha....Raiders - James Jones and a bunch of average or below WRsRavens - PUSH... S Smith and T Smith aren't exactly amazing Browns - obviously Josh Gordon but they don't have much elseTexans - push... Andre Johnson is on a steep decline and Hopkins is solidColts - Reggie Wayne is all but done and TY Hilton is a product of Luck IMOJags - who? Titans- double who?so that's 19 if you agree with me on all of them but you probably don't so maybe 15 is more accurate for some of you... I still don't think you can say that these aforementioned teams are THAT much better at WR (1 and 2) than the Bucs...now the slot is a whole other argument... we have nothing there unless the someone develops Addressing the system argument:Ducks play from the gun a lot, so I agree that he will need to develop with some time under center... That's a fair argument but outside of that you need to WATCH Oregon play. We essentially run a lot of PA with misdirection. There aren't a lot of gadget plans in our arsenal. I think you also need to look at the success of Carolina last year (and to an extent this year) and Eagles under Kelly. The league is changing and while pocket qbs have been very successful, all I need to do is point to the Super Bowl where the all-time great pocket QB Manning lost to the young scrambling QB Wilson.All of the QBs who play on the run MAKE THE PLAYOFFS! Yes they haven't won it all, but at this point making it to the playoffs is fine by me then you hope you can make something happen; any given Sunday...Mariota is NOT a system QB. Watch Oregon play and stop buying into the ESecPN that pins that Oregon as a system and the PAC-12 as a conference that doesn't play defense.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      Dex doesn't give breaks... thats why he'll never be able to run Tallahassee PD or FSU.

      right. its obviously FSU biasthat's why Im calling him out on distorted factshe wants discussion and im giving him a valid counterpoint. how you choose to take it is up to you

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      dude, dex, from one FSU alum to another, give the OP a friggin breakhe came in here openly stating his bias, wrote out a pretty fair scouting report and hasn't necessarily attacked anybody and you're all over his ass like he beat up your grandmotherappreciate your input, ogygunHBC

      I don't know about fair scouting report. it was pretty loaded up like one RUtroll would give on Winston

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      team that have a worse #1 and #2 WR than us (in combined talent):NY Giants - especially with Cruz gone, Beckham and Randle... burfWith Cruz, I'll take the Giants WR's.Washington Redskins - Garcon and Jackson... I'll Evans and V Jackson but you could make an argument either wayLOL, no you can't.  It's not even close.  Both DeSean and Garcon are better than Evans and V-Jax.SF 49ers - Boldin and Crabtree... debatable again but Boldin is worse than Jackson and Crabtree vs Evans I don't knowI'll give you a push on Boldin and Jackson, but Crabtree is better than Evans.Seattle SeaH - Balwin and Kerse... no, just noYeah, I agree with this one.M Vikings - Jennings and Patterson... I think both of our WRs are betterAnd this one too.Panthers - outside of the FS rookie, they have nothingAnd this one.Saints - call me crazy but Cooks and Colsten... mehAt best this is a push.  Cooks is slightly better than Evans, Jackson slightly better than Colston.Buffalo - Watkins and Evans who knows... the rest of their WRs are average or belowI'll take Buffalo's receivers hands down.Dolphins - Wallace is just a poor man's DeSean J... not sure who else they have reallyWallace is clearly better than Jackson.  Evans and Landry are both rookies so I'll call that matchup a push.  Overall, it's clearly a win for Miami.Patriots - you wanna talk about a system... plug any of their WRs in somewhere else and they are terribleEdelman is one of the best slot receivers in the league and LaFell is actualizing his talents now that he doesn't have a turd throwing him the ball.Jets - might have the worst WR core in football even with the Decker upgradeAgreedKC Chiefs - nobody but with my homerism I do like their slot guy, DAT haha....This is a push because Bowe is better than Jackson, but Evans is better than any other WR in KC, but KC uses their 2 TE's more because they're a predominate running team that uses their RB's as pass catchers too. Raiders - James Jones and a bunch of average or below WRsRaider blow.Ravens - PUSH... S Smith and T Smith aren't exactly amazing Steve is light years ahead of Jackson, Torrey blows.  I'll call it a push.Browns - obviously Josh Gordon but they don't have much elseJosh Gordon plus YOU is better than Jackson plus Evans.Texans - push... Andre Johnson is on a steep decline and Hopkins is solidI'll take Andre and DeAndre, thanks.Colts - Reggie Wayne is all but done and TY Hilton is a product of Luck IMOYeah, ok...  ::)Jags - who? Pretty ballsy to say since both Allen and Hurns are rookies and have more receptions, yards, and TD's than Jackson and Evans.Titans- double who?I'll take Hunter and Wright.  You're perfectly content for penalizing Hilton because of Luck, but won't give the opposite to either Tennessee or Jacksonville because of their rookie QB's?  Not surprised.so that's 19 if you agree with me on all of them but you probably don't so maybe 15 is more accurate for some of you... I still don't think you can say that these aforementioned teams are THAT much better at WR (1 and 2) than the Bucs...No, I don't really agree with much of any of them.  Like I said in my previous post, about 4 or 5 teams are worse than the Bucs and another 4 or 5 are about a push.  So, I'm thinking there are about two-thirds to three-quarters of the league would rather stand pat than trade WR's.now the slot is a whole other argument... we have nothing there unless the someone develops Addressing the system argument:Ducks play from the gun a lot, so I agree that he will need to develop with some time under center... That's a fair argument but outside of that you need to WATCH Oregon play. We essentially run a lot of PA with misdirection. There aren't a lot of gadget plans in our arsenal. I think you also need to look at the success of Carolina last year (and to an extent this year) and Eagles under Kelly. The league is changing and while pocket qbs have been very successful, all I need to do is point to the Super Bowl where the all-time great pocket QB Manning lost to the young scrambling QB Wilson.All of the QBs who play on the run MAKE THE PLAYOFFS! Yes they haven't won it all, but at this point making it to the playoffs is fine by me then you hope you can make something happen; any given Sunday...Mariota is NOT a system QB. Watch Oregon play and stop buying into the ESecPN that pins that Oregon as a system and the PAC-12 as a conference that doesn't play defense.

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    • mjarvis1

      Participant
      Post count: 544

      team that have a worse #1 and #2 WR than us (in combined talent):NY Giants - especially with Cruz gone, Beckham and Randle... burfWith Cruz, I'll take the Giants WR's.Cruz relies on quick cuts... that injury is gonna cost him and their core big time, so I disagree. Beckham looks solid but everything else is blahWashington Redskins - Garcon and Jackson... I'll Evans and V Jackson but you could make an argument either wayLOL, no you can't.  It's not even close.  Both DeSean and Garcon are better than Evans and V-Jax.SF 49ers - Boldin and Crabtree... debatable again but Boldin is worse than Jackson and Crabtree vs Evans I don't knowI'll give you a push on Boldin and Jackson, but Crabtree is better than Evans.Haven't looked at their stats side by side but my guess is Jackson is much better than Boldin statisticallySeattle SeaH - Balwin and Kerse... no, just noYeah, I agree with this one.greatM Vikings - Jennings and Patterson... I think both of our WRs are betterAnd this one too.double greatPanthers - outside of the FS rookie, they have nothingAnd this one.coolSaints - call me crazy but Cooks and Colsten... mehAt best this is a push.  Cooks is slightly better than Evans, Jackson slightly better than Colston.no freaking way is Cooks better than Evans... draft position and production aside, Evans is a better talentBuffalo - Watkins and Evans who knows... the rest of their WRs are average or belowI'll take Buffalo's receivers hands down.Watkins and Evans are rookies... how can you really say one is better than the other? Robert Woods is solid but nothing special so I don't see this as a "hands down" pickDolphins - Wallace is just a poor man's DeSean J... not sure who else they have reallyWallace is clearly better than Jackson.  Evans and Landry are both rookies so I'll call that matchup a push.  Overall, it's clearly a win for Miami.How is it you rate Evans so low? You've got Landry even, Watkins better and Cooks better? WTF?Patriots - you wanna talk about a system... plug any of their WRs in somewhere else and they are terribleEdelman is one of the best slot receivers in the league and LaFell is actualizing his talents now that he doesn't have a turd throwing him the ball.LOL, so you think LaFell is better than Jackson or Evans? SMHJets - might have the worst WR core in football even with the Decker upgradeAgreedI should hope soKC Chiefs - nobody but with my homerism I do like their slot guy, DAT haha....This is a push because Bowe is better than Jackson, but Evans is better than any other WR in KC, but KC uses their 2 TE's more because they're a predominate running team that uses their RB's as pass catchers too. agreed, but Bowe is awful... can't believe you just said Bowe is better than Jackson. WOW!Raiders - James Jones and a bunch of average or below WRsRaider blow.coolRavens - PUSH... S Smith and T Smith aren't exactly amazing Steve is light years ahead of Jackson, Torrey blows.  I'll call it a push.Steve Smith at this stage in his career over Jackson... hmmm... Evans is way better than T Smith so HARDLY a pushBrowns - obviously Josh Gordon but they don't have much elseJosh Gordon plus YOU is better than Jackson plus Evans.Josh Gordon is currently suspended and clearly has a slew of off the field issues... hard to look past thatTexans - push... Andre Johnson is on a steep decline and Hopkins is solidI'll take Andre and DeAndre, thanks.Johnson can't stay on the field and doesn't produce... Hopkins was awful last year but has plenty of talent... mehColts - Reggie Wayne is all but done and TY Hilton is a product of Luck IMOYeah, ok...  ::)You think TY Hilton would be as good on the Bucs? Really? REALLY?Jags - who? Pretty ballsy to say since both Allen and Hurns are rookies and have more receptions, yards, and TD's than Jackson and Evans.Fair but Bortles is 10x the QB War Giraffe is...Titans- double who?I'll take Hunter and Wright.  You're perfectly content for penalizing Hilton because of Luck, but won't give the opposite to either Tennessee or Jacksonville because of their rookie QB's?  Not surprised.I thought Locker was playing pretty well to start the season before he got hurt... Hunter and Wright are solid but nowhere near the production of Jackson... So we are making excuses for Titans and Jags but not the Bucs with Glennon...? CLASSICso that's 19 if you agree with me on all of them but you probably don't so maybe 15 is more accurate for some of you... I still don't think you can say that these aforementioned teams are THAT much better at WR (1 and 2) than the Bucs...No, I don't really agree with much of any of them.  Like I said in my previous post, about 4 or 5 teams are worse than the Bucs and another 4 or 5 are about a push.  So, I'm thinking there are about two-thirds to three-quarters of the league would rather stand pat than trade WR's.Your assessment is uninformed. You make excuses for some and not for others... you fail to acknowledge production. I mean seriously... LOOK AT VINCENT JACKSON's STATS!http://www.nfl.com/player/vincentjackson/2506400/careerstats2 careers fumbles... TWO. Five, thousand yard seasons in 6 years... (injury on the missing year). 7, 8, 9, 3*, 9, 7 TDs... DUDE IS A BEAST. GET OVER YOUR HATRED now the slot is a whole other argument... we have nothing there unless the someone develops Addressing the system argument:Ducks play from the gun a lot, so I agree that he will need to develop with some time under center... That's a fair argument but outside of that you need to WATCH Oregon play. We essentially run a lot of PA with misdirection. There aren't a lot of gadget plans in our arsenal. I think you also need to look at the success of Carolina last year (and to an extent this year) and Eagles under Kelly. The league is changing and while pocket qbs have been very successful, all I need to do is point to the Super Bowl where the all-time great pocket QB Manning lost to the young scrambling QB Wilson.All of the QBs who play on the run MAKE THE PLAYOFFS! Yes they haven't won it all, but at this point making it to the playoffs is fine by me then you hope you can make something happen; any given Sunday...Mariota is NOT a system QB. Watch Oregon play and stop buying into the ESecPN that pins that Oregon as a system and the PAC-12 as a conference that doesn't play defense.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      team that have a worse #1 and #2 WR than us (in combined talent):NY Giants - especially with Cruz gone, Beckham and Randle... burfWith Cruz, I'll take the Giants WR's.Cruz relies on quick cuts... that injury is gonna cost him and their core big time, so I disagree. Beckham looks solid but everything else is blahI'm not going to penalize the Giants because of Cruz, the guy just got hurt 2 weeks ago.  Teams really don't have the luxury of addressing these problems during the season.Washington Redskins - Garcon and Jackson... I'll Evans and V Jackson but you could make an argument either wayLOL, no you can't.  It's not even close.  Both DeSean and Garcon are better than Evans and V-Jax.SF 49ers - Boldin and Crabtree... debatable again but Boldin is worse than Jackson and Crabtree vs Evans I don't knowI'll give you a push on Boldin and Jackson, but Crabtree is better than Evans.Haven't looked at their stats side by side but my guess is Jackson is much better than Boldin statisticallyThen maybe you should.  This is where people can get caught up in homerism.  Boldin has 45 receptions on 62 targets for 540 yards and 2 TD's.  Jackson has 32 on 77 targets with 443 yards and 2 TD's.Seattle SeaH - Balwin and Kerse... no, just noYeah, I agree with this one.greatM Vikings - Jennings and Patterson... I think both of our WRs are betterAnd this one too.double greatPanthers - outside of the FS rookie, they have nothingAnd this one.coolSaints - call me crazy but Cooks and Colsten... mehAt best this is a push.  Cooks is slightly better than Evans, Jackson slightly better than Colston.no freaking way is Cooks better than Evans... draft position and production aside, Evans is a better talentTalent I'll give you with the stipulation of "potential", but right now, Cooks is playing better.  Is it the QB?  Probably.  But Cooks has played a lot more snaps this year than Evans.Buffalo - Watkins and Evans who knows... the rest of their WRs are average or belowI'll take Buffalo's receivers hands down.Watkins and Evans are rookies... how can you really say one is better than the other? Robert Woods is solid but nothing special so I don't see this as a "hands down" pickPotential in the future, Evans and Watkins may be the same, but right now, Watkins is clearly a better WR.  The fact that he has more receptions, yards, and TD's than Evans with similarly bad QB situations should be evidence of that.  No, Woods isn't really anything special, but this being his 2nd year, I'll take him over 31 year old (and declining), Vincent Jackson.Dolphins - Wallace is just a poor man's DeSean J... not sure who else they have reallyWallace is clearly better than Jackson.  Evans and Landry are both rookies so I'll call that matchup a push.  Overall, it's clearly a win for Miami.How is it you rate Evans so low? You've got Landry even, Watkins better and Cooks better? WTF?Evans isn't a finished product yet.  He's probably they least ready WR in the draft.  Though, his ceiling is probably the best or equal to Watkins.  Landry has caught 30 of his 39 targets, Evans caught 32 of 54.  Landry is a slot guy, so it is easier for him to catch passes and his ypc will be lower, but Landry - for a rookie - is a very solid slot WR... right now.  In 2 or 3 years Evans will likely tower over Landy, but not right now.Patriots - you wanna talk about a system... plug any of their WRs in somewhere else and they are terribleEdelman is one of the best slot receivers in the league and LaFell is actualizing his talents now that he doesn't have a turd throwing him the ball.LOL, so you think LaFell is better than Jackson or Evans? SMHLaFell right now, is better than Jackson and Evans.  My opinion will most likely change with the comparison to Evans at some point next season.  It never will with respect to Jackson.Jets - might have the worst WR core in football even with the Decker upgradeAgreedI should hope soKC Chiefs - nobody but with my homerism I do like their slot guy, DAT haha....This is a push because Bowe is better than Jackson, but Evans is better than any other WR in KC, but KC uses their 2 TE's more because they're a predominate running team that uses their RB's as pass catchers too. agreed, but Bowe is awful... can't believe you just said Bowe is better than Jackson. WOW!Bowe has 1 less catch and 45 less yards than Jackson... also has 30 less targets... and Bowe is the one who is "awful"?Raiders - James Jones and a bunch of average or below WRsRaider blow.coolRavens - PUSH... S Smith and T Smith aren't exactly amazing Steve is light years ahead of Jackson, Torrey blows.  I'll call it a push.Steve Smith at this stage in his career over Jackson... hmmm... Evans is way better than T Smith so HARDLY a pushTorrey and Evans are not a push.  The tandem is.  Steve Smith is a top 10 WR in yards, Jackson isn't in the top 40.  The difference between S. Smith over Jackson is equal to the difference between Evans over T. Smith.Browns - obviously Josh Gordon but they don't have much elseJosh Gordon plus YOU is better than Jackson plus Evans.Josh Gordon is currently suspended and clearly has a slew of off the field issues... hard to look past thatNo it isn't.  He's one of the 5 best offensive players in the entire NFL, period.Texans - push... Andre Johnson is on a steep decline and Hopkins is solidI'll take Andre and DeAndre, thanks.Johnson can't stay on the field and doesn't produce... Hopkins was awful last year but has plenty of talent... mehAnd yet, Andre Johnson is still outperforming Jackson.Colts - Reggie Wayne is all but done and TY Hilton is a product of Luck IMOYeah, ok...  ::)You think TY Hilton would be as good on the Bucs? Really? REALLY?"As good"?  No.  But he's definitely really really good.Jags - who? Pretty ballsy to say since both Allen and Hurns are rookies and have more receptions, yards, and TD's than Jackson and Evans.Fair but Bortles is 10x the QB War Giraffe is..."Is"?  In the future he will be.  As of right now, Bortles passer rating is 72.1 and Glennon is 83.3.Titans- double who?I'll take Hunter and Wright.  You're perfectly content for penalizing Hilton because of Luck, but won't give the opposite to either Tennessee or Jacksonville because of their rookie QB's?  Not surprised.I thought Locker was playing pretty well to start the season before he got hurt... Hunter and Wright are solid but nowhere near the production of Jackson... So we are making excuses for Titans and Jags but not the Bucs with Glennon...? CLASSICYou were the one making QB excuses pertaining to Hilton and Luck, not me.  Also, Glennon has outperformed both Locker, Mettenberger, and Bortles.Passer ratings: Glennon 83.3, Mettenberger 79.6, Locker 75.9, Bortles 72.1.  Also, Glennon is the only QB of this group who's TD to INT ratio is over 1.so that's 19 if you agree with me on all of them but you probably don't so maybe 15 is more accurate for some of you... I still don't think you can say that these aforementioned teams are THAT much better at WR (1 and 2) than the Bucs...No, I don't really agree with much of any of them.  Like I said in my previous post, about 4 or 5 teams are worse than the Bucs and another 4 or 5 are about a push.  So, I'm thinking there are about two-thirds to three-quarters of the league would rather stand pat than trade WR's.Your assessment is uninformed. You make excuses for some and not for others... you fail to acknowledge production. I mean seriously... LOOK AT VINCENT JACKSON's STATS!http://www.nfl.com/player/vincentjackson/2506400/careerstats2 careers fumbles... TWO. Five, thousand yard seasons in 6 years... (injury on the missing year). 7, 8, 9, 3*, 9, 7 TDs... DUDE IS A BEAST. GET OVER YOUR HATRED My assessment isn't uniformed, it's up-to-date.  I gave you current stats to backup every one of my comparisons.  Jackson, in his past, was excellent.  Today, he's mediocre at best.  The "DUDE WAS [sic] A BEAST.  GET OVER YOUR HOMERISM [sic]."now the slot is a whole other argument... we have nothing there unless the someone develops Addressing the system argument:Ducks play from the gun a lot, so I agree that he will need to develop with some time under center... That's a fair argument but outside of that you need to WATCH Oregon play. We essentially run a lot of PA with misdirection. There aren't a lot of gadget plans in our arsenal. I think you also need to look at the success of Carolina last year (and to an extent this year) and Eagles under Kelly. The league is changing and while pocket qbs have been very successful, all I need to do is point to the Super Bowl where the all-time great pocket QB Manning lost to the young scrambling QB Wilson.All of the QBs who play on the run MAKE THE PLAYOFFS! Yes they haven't won it all, but at this point making it to the playoffs is fine by me then you hope you can make something happen; any given Sunday...Mariota is NOT a system QB. Watch Oregon play and stop buying into the ESecPN that pins that Oregon as a system and the PAC-12 as a conference that doesn't play defense.

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    • mjarvis1

      Participant
      Post count: 544

      You know damn well statistics don’t tell it all. Percentage of balls caught, I mean c’mon… If you WATCH the games (I’m not implying that you haven’t) then you would know how many balls are uncatchable. This team is awful, you have to factor that in as well... Glennon's stats are the best of them all. I don't care what his passer rating is vs Bortles et al... Glennon gets his numbers in the second half of blow outs and doesn't keep us competitive.Also, Evans has been hurt so of course many of these other comparisons will have better numbers than him... When healthy, he has showed enormous progression as you have eluded to. Boldin has a much better QB in a much better offense so of course his numbers are slightly better. Andre Johnson in terms of talent is on par with V Jackson. I just don't see how you can overlook past stats as well. Jackson is having a down year on a bad team but he will still put up 800 yards and something like 7 TDs... He's become the #2 and I'm fine with that but he's lost a number of games and numbers due to poor TEAM play. Aside from his drops, the dude can still flat out play. But hey, that's just my opinion and you have yours... I appreciate the debate.GO DUCKS

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    • gthrun

      Participant
      Post count: 781

      Seriously, watch this video of Mariota’s first year in 2012 and then step back and realize that he has gotten better every year since. There is no sane reason to not want this guy leading our team. He should be our only target in the first round. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZiFqgLbqTg

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      LET’S GO DUCKS !!!!!!!

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    • mjarvis1

      Participant
      Post count: 544

      Again, what I LOVE about Mariota is when he break out of the pocket he keeps his eyes down field to make a play. He doesn’t tuck it in a run like Kaep and RG3. He can break it in space, or use his mobility to find gaps in the coverage. He also stands in the pocket very well and has a knack for pressure. I've seen him escape certain sacks almost every game. He's just exciting to watch. I wish he would stay for a senior season but that just ain't gonna happen.GO DUCKS

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 29

      While I understand the “he plays in a system” argument, I think the main difference is that systems tend to cover up flaws in a QBs game, whether it’s a weak arm, poor decision making or inaccuracy, MM doesn’t have those flaws. By all accounts he has a cannon, runs like a deer, makes great decisions and is really accurate. Those qualities in a QB translate to any system, which is why I think MM is different from other so called system QBs. And while JW does win, he has a history of poor decision making on and off the field. I think JW is more Byron Leftwich than Big Ben. If they are both available, I take MM all day.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      Seriously, watch this video of Mariota's first year in 2012 and then step back and realize that he has gotten better every year since. There is no sane reason to not want this guy leading our team. He should be our only target in the first round. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZiFqgLbqTg

      Just going by what people who get paid for this say, I'll go back to my original post before we turned into a WR debate...This: "Scouts confirmed this week he's the runaway favorite for No. 1 pick," wrote si.com's Pete Thamel"doesn't jive with this... "NFL Media analyst Daniel Jeremiah asked five NFL personnel executives for a Mariota comparison, three of whom likened him to San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick."Kaepernick isn't a franchise QB.  He's a decent holdover until one comes along.  So why should we take him with a top 3 pick?

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Seriously, watch this video of Mariota's first year in 2012 and then step back and realize that he has gotten better every year since. There is no sane reason to not want this guy leading our team. He should be our only target in the first round. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZiFqgLbqTg

      Just going by what people who get paid for this say, I'll go back to my original post before we turned into a WR debate...This: "Scouts confirmed this week he's the runaway favorite for No. 1 pick," wrote si.com's Pete Thamel"doesn't jive with this... "NFL Media analyst Daniel Jeremiah asked five NFL personnel executives for a Mariota comparison, three of whom likened him to San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick."Kaepernick isn't a franchise QB.  He's a decent holdover until one comes along.  So why should we take him with a top 3 pick?

      I'll answer...............you wouldn't.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3027

      I throw a couple things out there that I see in this thread.1. Yes he got better every year, that's true for a large majority of QBs that get drafted.2. Mariota throws more TD's to open receivers than anyone in college.3. Mariota plays in a significantly different system than he would play in Tampa.None of these things mean he can't be a top 5 QB at some point. But all of them do make it more difficult to try and translate his college production to the NFL. He may be able to read complex defense and make a tight throw into traffic with a very messy pocket, but he rarely has to do that in college. The scheme he runs, his speed and athleticism create a huge pocket and very little pressure on him. It's a plus that defense has to play him like that but it also doesn't give us a very good picture of how he is going to handle it in the NFL.For the record, I can see the writing on the wall and i'm trying to get on the Mariota train.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4344

      While I understand the "he plays in a system" argument, I think the main difference is that systems tend to cover up flaws in a QBs game, whether it's a weak arm, poor decision making or inaccuracy, MM doesn't have those flaws. By all accounts he has a cannon, runs like a deer, makes great decisions and is really accurate. Those qualities in a QB translate to any system, which is why I think MM is different from other so called system QBs. And while JW does win, he has a history of poor decision making on and off the field. I think JW is more Byron Leftwich than Big Ben. If they are both available, I take MM all day.

      good lorddo a little research before you make statements like this. to claim hes got great accuracy isnt always true. look and see what actual scouts think, not just fanshttp://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/24778927/nfl-draft-mariota-good-but-far-from-perfect-in-beating-stanford"Contrary to the hyperbole of the FOX broadcasting crew, however, Mariota was far from perfect in this contest. He missed open receivers on multiple occasions, including three consecutive passes in the red zone that ultimately forced Oregon to kick a field goal midway through the second quarter.""A week ago, I dropped Mariota from the top spot on my personal Big Board to No. 3 overall. Saturday night's win will not reverse this decision nor will it magically erase the concerns scouts have about Mariota's ability to transfer his talents to a more traditional pro-style offense. The passing windows he'll see in the NFL will be much smaller and the physicality that Stanford had traditionally beaten Oregon with will be brought by every defense he'll see at the next level"an exerpt from his draft profile"The Ducks' innovative offense simplifies QB decisions and this is roughly the same scheme Mariota played in high school. As such, some of the basics like taking the ball from under center and scanning downfield while dropping back are skills Mariota hasn't been asked to master yet. He's overly reliant (at this point) on his first read, occasionally commits the cardinal sin of throwing late across his body and wasn't a year ago when injury sapped him off his maneuverability and he was forced to throw from the pocket."this isnt the end all be all for the kid and im not saying he cant be a good QB but some of you need to take the rose colored glasses off and take an objective look at a player.hes far from perfect as some would like to allude to

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    • Marcia

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      Post count: 5337

      Fans want to see something that isn’t there.  Always leading with emotions.  He could refine his game and get better but he is going to be a project.  Winston is no project.  He will need to adapt to pro speed but that is about it.  He knows how to read defenses, studies tendencies and makes reads as good as any college QB since Luck.  His biggest flaw is he takes calculated risks early in the game with some of his throws.  Between the two QBs it's Winston by leaps and bounds.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4344

      And while JW does win, he has a history of poor decision making on and off the field. I think JW is more Byron Leftwich than Big Ben.

      on Winston. not gonna debate the off field mistakes because there isnt an argument to be made there that he doesnt need to clean up hit off field antics.he makes poor decisions at times on the field but its not often like you are trying to make it sound. he plays like a gunslinger just like Big Ben and Favre did. he takes chances and sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesnt. i think Mariotta's low INT numbers are a little deceiving because of how he plays the game. he wont have the same offense or throwing windows and opportunities in the NFLthe difference between Winston and Mariotta is that Winston is willing to take a chance and fit a ball into a really tight window and Mariotta is a bit more hesitant and doesnt want to take the chance. both points of view have their merit as Winston could easily throw the game away with a pick but could also win the game with a TD. Mariotta could win the game by not making a mistake but could lose because he wasnt aggressive enough to take the chance to get the victory.all QBs make mistakes, its just about who limits them and capitalizes on opportunitiesi dont care who we take because we obviously need a QB(and an OC for that matter). i just hope we make the informed logical football decision on which player projects best to our offense and who projects to have the best success in the NFL

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4344

      Fans want to see something that isn't there.  Always leading with emotions.  He could refine his game and get better but he is going to be a project.  Winston is no project.  He will need to adapt to pro speed but that is about it.  He knows how to read defenses, studies tendencies and makes reads as good as any college QB since Luck.  His biggest flaw is he takes calculated risks early in the game with some of his throws.  Between the two QBs it's Winston by leaps and bounds.

      i agree that Winston is more pro ready and refined that Mariotta but he still has a good bit to work on.he needs to get more consistent with his mechanics and footwork as well as learning to take a few less chances and take more of the checkdowns instead of going for homeruns

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Fans want to see something that isn't there.  Always leading with emotions.  He could refine his game and get better but he is going to be a project.  Winston is no project.  He will need to adapt to pro speed but that is about it.  He knows how to read defenses, studies tendencies and makes reads as good as any college QB since Luck.  His biggest flaw is he takes calculated risks early in the game with some of his throws.  Between the two QBs it's Winston by leaps and bounds.

      i agree that Winston is more pro ready and refined that Mariotta but he still has a good bit to work on.he needs to get more consistent with his mechanics and footwork as well as learning to take a few less chances and take more of the checkdowns instead of going for homeruns

      He tends to embrace the check downs in crunch time.  He takes chances early and if he is down, then he plays the percentages and has always brought his team back. He will have some adjusting to do to his game in the pros but he is layered focused when he is down and his performance shows that.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 215

      If MM is a scheme QB, then lets draft him and create a scheme to highlight his strengths like at Oregon….a man can dream

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    • Anonymous

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      I’d agree if Lovie showed any ability at all to scheme to his players strengths.But since he can't and won't, there is no reason to spend the money on a top qb with him as coach.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 215

      I'd agree if Lovie showed any ability at all to scheme to his players strengths.But since he can't and won't, there is no reason to spend the money on a top qb with him as coach.

      yuuuuuuuuuuuuup.I will still take either at this point. Just get a damn Qb that can ball out

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    • Anonymous

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      If MM is a scheme QB, then lets draft him and create a scheme to highlight his strengths like at Oregon....a man can dream

      If Lovie Smith was a good coach that is exactly what he would do, he's not and we won't.

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    • Anonymous

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      Oregon uses a ZBS.  Did the Bucs just ditch the ZBS and go with man?  …and have success running the ball…

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    • Marcia

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      Post count: 5337

      Just heard Cosell say that the era of the movement QB is already over.  The nuances necessary to play QB in the league are too much if you dont learn to be a drop back QB first.  He's as objective an analyst as there is in the football.  If Mariota can learn to be a drop back passer in the NFL he could be great, otherwise I dont want him.  Either way he is a project.

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    • Anonymous

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      Didn’t Cossel also have high regards for Glennon?Doesn't that damage his credibility somewhat?

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Didn't Cossel also have high regards for Glennon?Doesn't that damage his credibility somewhat?

      He had high regard for Glennon if he was actually getting coached or had an OC.  Cosell has missed on some players for sure but his point was a great one.  RGIII, Kaep and Newton are trending in the wrong direction.  He thinks most GMs are looking at drop back QB's with athleticism but they need to have pocket presence first.  Wilson as an example. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 215

      I throw a couple things out there that I see in this thread.1. Yes he got better every year, that's true for a large majority of QBs that get drafted.2. Mariota throws more TD's to open receivers than anyone in college.3. Mariota plays in a significantly different system than he would play in Tampa.None of these things mean he can't be a top 5 QB at some point. But all of them do make it more difficult to try and translate his college production to the NFL. He may be able to read complex defense and make a tight throw into traffic with a very messy pocket, but he rarely has to do that in college. The scheme he runs, his speed and athleticism create a huge pocket and very little pressure on him. It's a plus that defense has to play him like that but it also doesn't give us a very good picture of how he is going to handle it in the NFL.For the record, I can see the writing on the wall and i'm trying to get on the Mariota train.

      How about we just use whatever system they use to get open receivers. Screw the JW and MM argument. Lets have open receivers 24/7!

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      I throw a couple things out there that I see in this thread.1. Yes he got better every year, that's true for a large majority of QBs that get drafted.2. Mariota throws more TD's to open receivers than anyone in college.3. Mariota plays in a significantly different system than he would play in Tampa.None of these things mean he can't be a top 5 QB at some point. But all of them do make it more difficult to try and translate his college production to the NFL. He may be able to read complex defense and make a tight throw into traffic with a very messy pocket, but he rarely has to do that in college. The scheme he runs, his speed and athleticism create a huge pocket and very little pressure on him. It's a plus that defense has to play him like that but it also doesn't give us a very good picture of how he is going to handle it in the NFL.For the record, I can see the writing on the wall and i'm trying to get on the Mariota train.

      How about we just use whatever system they use to get open receivers. Screw the JW and MM argument. Lets have open receivers 24/7!

      If only it was that easy.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9891

      Fair or unfair, you have to think that if the Bucs had the choice the Glazers would lean heavily toward Mariotta. They are running a biz and even if it’s total BS (on both accounts) Mariotta reputation is better. Like I posted, that may be totally unfair but perception is reality.

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    • Anonymous

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      I'd agree if Lovie showed any ability at all to scheme to his players strengths.But since he can't and won't, there is no reason to spend the money on a top qb with him as coach.

      Therein lies the problem. doest matter who take if the coach doesnt do anything to help them succeed

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      Fair or unfair, you have to think that if the Bucs had the choice the Glazers would lean heavily toward Mariotta. They are running a biz and even if it's total BS (on both accounts) Mariotta reputation is better. Like I posted, that may be totally unfair but perception is reality.

      True but Winston staying close to FSU should drive the needle up too... and the police blotter.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3027

      Didn't Cossel also have high regards for Glennon?Doesn't that damage his credibility somewhat?

      He liked Glennon the prospect as he reminded him of Matt Ryan the prospect. He's on record saying Glennon the NFL QB has work to do to reach his potential.It damages your cred that you misconstrue what he says or just plain don't listen.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3027

      Just heard Cosell say that the era of the movement QB is already over.  The nuances necessary to play QB in the league are too much if you dont learn to be a drop back QB first.  He's as objective an analyst as there is in the football. 

      I said this exact thing last year. Having the ability to run and the confidence to run means you're probably going to. That means exactly what Cosell said this morning. RGIII, Newton and even to some extent Russell Wilson rarely get to a 3rd read b/c they are move by then.Shit, I said this about Jeff Garcia. Sure he made a lot of plays by running scrambling, but for every first down he picked up by running he missed a bigger opportunity down the field b/c his looking where he was going to run.if there is no bailout available, the QB is forced to stand in the pocket, move around and continue to go through reads rather than take off running.

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    • mjarvis1

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      Post count: 544

      Mariota uses his speed to buy time and keeps his eyes down field; only running when it’s the last option.Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl.Kaep was one play away from making it to consecutive Super Bowls.Newton turned around a franchise with a terrible WR core... (I hate Newton, and I hate his accuracy even worse.... I'm just pointing out his success)RG3 INSTANTLY improved Washington's offense and Morris' productivity.Chip Kelley's system has yet to be disproved.Andrew Luck and Aaron Rodgers are IMHO the 2 best QBs in the league... both offer the ability to move out of the pocket but they keep their eyes down field. What's funny is they make some of the same mistakes that Wilson et al make and miss big plays from time to time when they take off and run...I think people see Mariota's success running the ball and misconstrue his abilities. He plays from the pocket a lot more than some of you are giving him credit for. As for "wide open receivers"... this is laughable. He just doesn't force that many throws; that doesn't mean he hasn't or that he can't make them... he just doesn't do it that often. Someone said that he doesn't get to his third read because he's already taken off to run; this just isn't true. While he has starred down some targets, missed some open targets and fumbled on occasion, which QB hasn't? Of course he isn't perfect but the kid is as smart as they come. Watch some film on him as he goes through his reads. He hasn't had the fortune of a solid line during his career. Watch how he feels pressure and moves out of the pocket. Watch how he throws on the run.Lastly, his mechanics are much better than Newton or Kaep... Wilson is too short. Mariota has something that these QBs are missing.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Lastly, his mechanics are much better than Newton or Kaep... Wilson is too short. Mariota has something that these QBs are missing.

      Damn right .Onipa a'

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1845

      Didn't Cossel also have high regards for Glennon?Doesn't that damage his credibility somewhat?

      He liked Glennon the prospect as he reminded him of Matt Ryan the prospect. He's on record saying Glennon the NFL QB has work to do to reach his potential.It damages your cred that you misconstrue what he says or just plain don't listen.

      How did I misconstrue anything? I simply asked a question. Cossell made a point about what he thought of Glennon pre NFL, Glennon is turning out to be very mediocre. If Cossell, says Glennon reminded him of Ryan, and Glennon fails, how am I not listening by asking if his cred gets damaged by being wrong about Glennon?I think its a valid point to say that his analysis was wrong, I'm not saying he's overrated like Kiper, that would be misconstruing information based on me thinking he's an airbag and not learning how many draft picks Kiper hit on.

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Didn't Cossel also have high regards for Glennon?Doesn't that damage his credibility somewhat?

      He liked Glennon the prospect as he reminded him of Matt Ryan the prospect. He's on record saying Glennon the NFL QB has work to do to reach his potential.It damages your cred that you misconstrue what he says or just plain don't listen.

      How did I misconstrue anything? I simply asked a question. Cossell made a point about what he thought of Glennon pre NFL, Glennon is turning out to be very mediocre. If Cossell, says Glennon reminded him of Ryan, and Glennon fails, how am I not listening by asking if his cred gets damaged by being wrong about Glennon?I think its a valid point to say that his analysis was wrong, I'm not saying he's overrated like Kiper, that would be misconstruing information based on me thinking he's an airbag and not learning how many draft picks Kiper hit on.

      No QB can be fairly judged without an OC. I hope he does well but at this point, I want to lose and grab a super star at the position.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1845

      Didn't Cossel also have high regards for Glennon?Doesn't that damage his credibility somewhat?

      He liked Glennon the prospect as he reminded him of Matt Ryan the prospect. He's on record saying Glennon the NFL QB has work to do to reach his potential.It damages your cred that you misconstrue what he says or just plain don't listen.

      How did I misconstrue anything? I simply asked a question. Cossell made a point about what he thought of Glennon pre NFL, Glennon is turning out to be very mediocre. If Cossell, says Glennon reminded him of Ryan, and Glennon fails, how am I not listening by asking if his cred gets damaged by being wrong about Glennon?I think its a valid point to say that his analysis was wrong, I'm not saying he's overrated like Kiper, that would be misconstruing information based on me thinking he's an airbag and not learning how many draft picks Kiper hit on.

      No QB can be fairly judged without an OC. I hope he does well but at this point, I want to lose and grab a super star at the position.

      I agree, I'd love to have an elite qb here, my sticking point for not jumping on board is, I truly believe Lovie won't utilize a superstar qb, so we'll be stuck with McCown/Glennon, and then the next "Orton-like" 4th round qb that comes along.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3027

      Didn't Cossel also have high regards for Glennon?Doesn't that damage his credibility somewhat?

      He liked Glennon the prospect as he reminded him of Matt Ryan the prospect. He's on record saying Glennon the NFL QB has work to do to reach his potential.It damages your cred that you misconstrue what he says or just plain don't listen.

      How did I misconstrue anything? I simply asked a question. Cossell made a point about what he thought of Glennon pre NFL, Glennon is turning out to be very mediocre. If Cossell, says Glennon reminded him of Ryan, and Glennon fails, how am I not listening by asking if his cred gets damaged by being wrong about Glennon?I think its a valid point to say that his analysis was wrong, I'm not saying he's overrated like Kiper, that would be misconstruing information based on me thinking he's an airbag and not learning how many draft picks Kiper hit on.

      No QB can be fairly judged without an OC. I hope he does well but at this point, I want to lose and grab a super star at the position.

      I agree, I'd love to have an elite qb here, my sticking point for not jumping on board is, I truly believe Lovie won't utilize a superstar qb, so we'll be stuck with McCown/Glennon, and then the next "Orton-like" 4th round qb that comes along.

      I don't believe his analysis was wrong. I believe his assessment of Matt Ryan and Mike Glennon are similar in a lot of ways. Cosell has always talked about Glennon, glowingly, as a prospect. He has not been so positive about his play as a NFL QB. Glennon was put into a position where he was thrown to the wolves twice and currently has a HC that does not support him.Can he be a Matt Ryan? I don't know, but what I do know is the second Matt Ryan was drafted, he was supported by the franchise and given more and more offensive weapons to use. The franchise has not wavered from him and has not been short sighted when dealing with him. That has not been the case with Lovie Smith, Smith has questioned Glennon at every possible point and even made him dress up as Cam Newton from some unknown reason.The bigger point is this. The chances of getting Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning where the guy is just a baller from day one are very very small. Of the elite QBs currently in the NFL, a large majority have needed time to develop. So whoever Lovie believes is our franchise guy, he needs to play, he needs to be supported with offensive players, he needs a consistent OC and he needs patience. Sure we had an all offensive draft and it has helped bring some young talent in but that needs to happen every year for the foreseeable future and you can bet your left nut that Lovie Smith has big plans on drafting/signing lots of defensive players to "fix" his defense. His defense is and will continue to be more important than the offense and that is why we'll never have a true franchise QB, he simply won't put the resources into finding one or developing one.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Cosell likes traditional pocket passers. He doesnt like the new dual threat qbs like Kap , Wilson , Newton and now Mariota. Its no surprise he would poo poo Mariota.  From what Ive read most scouts love Mariota , however.

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Cosell likes traditional pocket passers. He doesnt like the new dual threat qbs like Kap , Wilson , Newton and now Mariota. Its no surprise he would poo poo Mariota.  From what Ive read most scouts love Mariota , however.

      He dislikes them for a reason.  They are not winning right now. He doesn't classify Wilson in that category as he thinks most of his runs are by design and he's primarily a pocket passer.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3027

      Cosell likes traditional pocket passers. He doesnt like the new dual threat qbs like Kap , Wilson , Newton and now Mariota. Its no surprise he would poo poo Mariota.  From what Ive read most scouts love Mariota , however.

      He dislikes them for a reason.  They are not winning right now. He doesn't classify Wilson in that category as he thinks most of his runs are by design and he's primarily a pocket passer.

      Right, Cosell believes having the ability to scramble encourages these players to abandon progression and in generally doesn't allow them to develop a "pocket mindset." You can win with them, that's not to say you can't win with one. I think Cosell believes they end up leaving larger passing plays on the field while attempting to run or scramble. I agree 100%, I watched Jeff Garcia do it.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      So Mariota is primarily a running QB now? Don't take his supreme athleticism and say thats his game. He throws the ball plenty and has picked apart many teams with his arm.It's just more scary to defend because he has that ability to take one to the house on you on any given play.. running or throwing.

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    • Marcia

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      Post count: 5337

      So Mariota is primarily a running QB now? Don't take his supreme athleticism and say thats his game. He throws the ball plenty and has picked apart many teams with his arm.It's just more scary to defend because he has that ability to take one to the house on you on any given play.. running or throwing.

      Mariota may be great.  He just looks slight to me.  Winston is a sure thing.  He's got football smarts to beat the band.

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    • mjarvis1

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      Post count: 544

      So Mariota is primarily a running QB now? Don't take his supreme athleticism and say thats his game. He throws the ball plenty and has picked apart many teams with his arm.It's just more scary to defend because he has that ability to take one to the house on you on any given play.. running or throwing.

      Mariota may be great.  He just looks slight to me.  Winston is a sure thing.  He's got football smarts to beat the band.

      Mariota has Winston beat ten fold in terms of football IQ... I think Winston has a simple knack for the game that isn't really taught. I still don't understand why people think Mariota is a run-first QB. He isn't. In fact, LIKE WILSON, the plays where he runs are often DESIGNED zone-option reads; something (ironically) that I think he needs to improve upon.The biggest play in the Oregon-MSU game was on 3rd and 11: Mariota was an inch away from a sack, he escaped the pocket, kept his eyes down field and started to run... DB/LB had to try and contain which left Freeman open on the sideline for a 20-something yard gain and 1st down. This play was HUGE. We were down 9 points and if we had to punt the moment would have stayed in their favor. After that play, it was all down hill.I know that's just one play, but Mariota does this ALL THE TIME. Sometimes I wish he would just run honestly... at the college level his speed in space is insane but from a pro prospect perspective you gotta love his vision.The accounts of him not going through his reads and reaching his 3rd read are entirely fabricated. Yes we have designed plays where there may be only 2 reads with misdirection but we also do 3 and 4 WR-sets, crossing patterns, rubs, slants, fades (lots of these), posts and comebacks... PRO STYLE throws... PLENTY.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Cosell likes traditional pocket passers. He doesnt like the new dual threat qbs like Kap , Wilson , Newton and now Mariota. Its no surprise he would poo poo Mariota.  From what Ive read most scouts love Mariota , however.

      He dislikes them for a reason.  They are not winning right now. He doesn't classify Wilson in that category as he thinks most of his runs are by design and he's primarily a pocket passer.

      ...and he sucks as a pocket passer. Most of his big plays come while improvising or rolling out. He can't see the field well out of the pocket at 5'11 .

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 17

      Winston needs to mature off the field, that much is true. But on the field and in the locker room, no one can deny that he is a born leader. I have watched all the games he has played and he never sits down on the side line, he is always cheering on his teammates even after he makes mistakes. He is always talking to his receivers and Oline getting ready for the next series. You cant teach that.He has a superior football IQ, he was drawing up football plays in pee wee league. He learns from his mistakes and NEVER gets down when he or others makes mistakes. FSU lines are not that good this year which is a good thing for the NFL because we can see when the offensive line breaks down, Winston doesn't go side to side running around. He climbs the pocket with his head up and looks for plays down the field. He is not scared to take a hit! You cant teach these things, you either have it or you don't and Winston has it.If Winston grows up and matures, he will be an outstanding QB at the next level for any team with any system because of his intangibles. I do hope is for our team because we really need a leader, that is what we are lacking on offense.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1845

      We have a leader on offense, his name is Lovie Smith. He has no room for a qb that could improvise. Heck, Lovie Smith would probably bench P. Manning for throwing too much.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 943

      If we piss away a top 3 draft pick on Mariota I am going to puke.Draft Jameis at QB. That is the only option if we are looking QB early in the draft.

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    • Marcia

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      Post count: 5337

      If we piss away a top 3 draft pick on Mariota I am going to puke.Draft Jameis at QB. That is the only option if we are looking QB early in the draft.

      Totally agree.  LOL at the OP - what a complete charade.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      Why is it hard to accept they are both good prospects?

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    • Marcia

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      Post count: 5337

      Why is it hard to accept they are both good prospects?

      Could very well be.  I just think there is a distinct difference between being a good prospect and Jameis Winston, someone that has been lauded as a pro since he was 17 years old.Whenever I see Mariota play, I like what I see but see someone that will have to change his stripes to succeed long term in the pros.  We dont want a piece of candy in Tampa like RGIII, we want long term success like Luck. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      Winston hasn’t been lauded as a pro since he was 17.  That’s warchant stuff.I do agree mariota has a larger learning curve, but he is also a much more mature individual.

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    • Marcia

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      Post count: 5337

      Winston hasn't been lauded as a pro since he was 17.  That's warchant stuff.I do agree mariota has a larger learning curve, but he is also a much more mature individual.

      http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/02/espn_nfl_analyst_trent_dilfer.html

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      That article was from last year.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      Winston needs to mature off the field, that much is true. But on the field and in the locker room, no one can deny that he is a born leader. I have watched all the games he has played and he never sits down on the side line, he is always cheering on his teammates even after he makes mistakes. He is always talking to his receivers and Oline getting ready for the next series. You cant teach that.He has a superior football IQ, he was drawing up football plays in pee wee league. He learns from his mistakes and NEVER gets down when he or others makes mistakes. FSU lines are not that good this year which is a good thing for the NFL because we can see when the offensive line breaks down, Winston doesn't go side to side running around. He climbs the pocket with his head up and looks for plays down the field. He is not scared to take a hit! You cant teach these things, you either have it or you don't and Winston has it.If Winston grows up and matures, he will be an outstanding QB at the next level for any team with any system because of his intangibles. I do hope is for our team because we really need a leader, that is what we are lacking on offense.

      What good is this: "But on the field and in the locker room, no one can deny that he is a born leader."If because of this: "Winston needs to mature off the field, that much is true," he's being suspended all the time?

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    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      I will take either one to be honest. If Lovie is still here, I would lean more towards Winston. If Lovie gets the heave ho, and they bring in a sharp offensive mind, then Mariota makes sense.  Mariota didn’t set the world on fire the other night against Utah. But that is a good defense. And he still put up decent numbers.  He hit a throw just before halftime that was a laser to the WR, defitnitly a pro throw. The WR was well covered, and he nailed it.

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    • mjarvis1

      Participant
      Post count: 544

      lol @ rodtoastjones for being the ultimate hypocrite. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but you don’t back it up… You just troll. If I made a statement like "lol and people thinking Winston being able to translate to the NFL" and then said nothing to back up that statement, I would look quite foolish.Well, that is what I read in this thread.so PLEASE, BREAK IT DOWN. Why is Mariota a waste of a pick... ENLIGHTEN ME!

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