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    • NotDeadYet

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          Read, listen, weep…    Here's a couple comments from QB guru Greg Cosell on TB. If you just want to see what Cosell said and skip the rest, just search for "Cosell".  :  http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20140122/teddy-bridgewater-nfl-draft-2014/    Much more in the audio here, starting at 4:00. Sees TB as good, but not a great arm. He also projects he'll measure 6'1" 195. And Manziel is a "leap of faith". Ouch. :  http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20140122/teddy-bridgewater-nfl-draft-2014/

    • Anonymous

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      Teddy could very well fall and us get our shot at him. I think you’ll see Blake Bortles go as the 1st QB. Could be another year where lineman are taken early and often. I like Teddy a lot but I also respect Cosell’s analysis as much as anyone. Guess we’ll see how it goes.

    • Anonymous

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      I also respect Cosell as a QB talent evaluator. Glad to hear some of the pros are seeing the same weak a$$ QB class that I am.  Its not as bad as last year, but its not good. 

    • Anonymous

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      Isn’t Cosell a Glennon fan ?We need to give Glennon another year.

    • Anonymous

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      Isn't Cosell a Glennon fan ?We need to give Glennon another year.

      If memory serves, he thought we had the chance at having gotten the best QB in the draft in the 3rd round.  I would like to see what Glennon can do with something resembling and offensive line playing in front of him.  It appears that when he gets time to set his feet he is pretty accurate.  About the only QB who might have been successful with our OL last year was Vick in his prime due to all the "lookout" blocks.

    • Anonymous

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      During the season I recall him saying that not only is he the best QB in this draft , he is better than RGIII .

    • Anonymous

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    • Anonymous

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      Going to be interesting to see what the other Gruden does with RG3 this year.  For his sake I am hoping he didnt ruin himself by rushing back from injury. 

    • Anonymous

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      What a difference a year makes.  Went from potentially being one of the strongest QB classes in years to pretty weak.

    • Anonymous

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      What a difference a year makes.  Went from potentially being one of the strongest QB classes in years to pretty weak.

      I’m not sure it was ever as strong…for the pros…as the hype was protraying.  When you look at it, none of them fit the mold of the classic Pro QB. 

    • Anonymous

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      He talks about teddy being a qb that doesn’t get flustered. Well, Freeman didn’t in college either, so what?For all the talk about this qb, and that qb, people tend to forget upsides once in the nfl. His is limited.Manziel, IF he has a OC/HC that will set up plays correctly for him, the sky is the limit. He's only going to be held back by someone trying to change him drastically.

    • Anonymous

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          With Manziel, it’s all about the TOs… Not a coach in the league will tolerate them for long.

    • Anonymous

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      A bunch of folks here were convinced this is an extremely strong draft class for QB. Your number one QB is a guy who wasn’t even talked about until the last week of two of regular season CFB. So tell me again that this is the best QB class of the decade? Lmao

    • Anonymous

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      What a difference a year makes.  Went from potentially being one of the strongest QB classes in years to pretty weak.

      It is still one of the strongest QB classes in a long time.  After the combine the naysayers will be eating crow.

    • Anonymous

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      What a difference a year makes.  Went from potentially being one of the strongest QB classes in years to pretty weak.

      People don't understand what makes a class "strong". History shows the best QB classes ever produce three longterm starters. That's it. Can this class produce three longterm starters? Maybe. If it only produces two, that may not be "strong" but at least it's pretty good. Some classes produce zero, like the Jamarcus Russell/Brady Quinn class.

    • Anonymous

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      Two of the better prospects went back to school.  I’m not even sure this class is any better than last year.

    • Anonymous

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      aren’t the Bucs in a bit of a Catch-22 though with respect to QBs? It looks like if they are not sold on Glennon they would have to “reach” for one this draft. If they dont “reach” and say they go 8-8 this year, they would not be in a very good position for one of next year’s QBs, right?

    • Anonymous

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      aren't the Bucs in a bit of a Catch-22 though with respect to QBs? It looks like if they are not sold on Glennon they would have to "reach" for one this draft. If they dont "reach" and say they go 8-8 this year, they would not be in a very good position for one of next year's QBs, right?

      Absolutely, if the Bucs go with Glennon and he stinks it up the team would still be maybe 6-10 at the worst and would be out of position to draft a QB next year. IMO the Bucs will draft a QB at 7.

    • Anonymous

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      I think Tedford is more of a question mark than Glennon is.  Will Ted go all “mad scientist” by trying to “fix” Glennon? 

    • Anonymous

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      Where’s the audio in the OP?

    • Anonymous

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      I think Tedford is more of a question mark than Glennon is.  Will Ted go all "mad scientist" by trying to "fix" Glennon?

      I would feel better about it if glennon didn't have schiano stench still on him. The better option would be for them to get "their guy." I'd rather they draft manziel, but regardless, it has to be someone they feel they can work with, or at the very least, have confidence in.

    • Anonymous

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    • Anonymous

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      aren't the Bucs in a bit of a Catch-22 though with respect to QBs? It looks like if they are not sold on Glennon they would have to "reach" for one this draft. If they dont "reach" and say they go 8-8 this year, they would not be in a very good position for one of next year's QBs, right?

      1. In the end, there's no such thing as a "reach" or a "steal". The only thing there is are good players and bad players. If the Bucs were to "reach" on a lower-rated QB and he turns into Christian Ponder, he'll have been a bad pick. If the Bucs "reach" on a lower-rated QB and he turns into Ben Roethlisberger or Aaron Rodgers, he'll have been a good pick. It's that simple. 2. However much better the 2015 class may potentially be, there aren't going to be fifteen John Elways where one of them will trickle down to the middle of the 1st round where a 8-8 record will put you. If there are a couple great prospects, they're going to get picked by the teams that had the worst records and the Bucs will be looking at the same type of prospect they're looking at now and just hoping the rest of the league is wrong about whatever everyone thinks is his biggest flaw just like now.

    • Anonymous

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      During the season I recall him saying that not only is he the best QB in this draft , he is better than RGIII .

      You recall incorrectly. He called him more "advanced" than RGIII. The deal with Cosell is this - he believes in the pocket passing game 100%, and that mobility - beyond the functional mobility within the pocket - is way down the list of QB attributes necessary to be successful in the NFL.  So when he says that Glennon is "more advanced" than RGIII, he means that Glennon does more of the tried and true NFL QB things - throws with anticipation, reads defenses, etc.  A lot of guys don't have to do those things to be extremely successful in college, so the pro game is an adjustment.  And in 2012, the Skins built on offense around RGIII that utilized a lot of those non-traditional/college aspects and had immediate success. I think the goal for the Skins was to work on those traditional NFL things over time, but that got interrupted by his injury (in other words, hard to work on in the offseason). And then suddenly this year you have a guy who no longer really can run, which means the offense breaks down. Glennon came from a pro-style offense (as did Russel Wilson) - he's going to be more advanced at doing those things.

    • Anonymous

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      Thanks, Calico.

    • Anonymous

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      aren't the Bucs in a bit of a Catch-22 though with respect to QBs? It looks like if they are not sold on Glennon they would have to "reach" for one this draft. If they dont "reach" and say they go 8-8 this year, they would not be in a very good position for one of next year's QBs, right?

      1. In the end, there's no such thing as a "reach" or a "steal". The only thing there is are good players and bad players. If the Bucs were to "reach" on a lower-rated QB and he turns into Christian Ponder, he'll have been a bad pick. If the Bucs "reach" on a lower-rated QB and he turns into Ben Roethlisberger or Aaron Rodgers, he'll have been a good pick. It's that simple.

      Interesting because I thought about that point after I used the word "reach."  I think I get your point, but I guess some could call it semantics or, perhaps, just driven by the results. For example, your first scenario - "If the Bucs were to "reach" on a lower-rated QB and he turns into Christian Ponder, he'll have been a bad pick -- described what I meant by "reach," I was just accepting as fact that the consensus was that none of the available QBs would be a #7 pick but for the class. If your first scenario played out with, say, Carr then after the fact everyone would be calling the Carr pick a "reach" driven by need. 

    • Anonymous

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      1. In the end, there's no such thing as a "reach" or a "steal". The only thing there is are good players and bad players. If the Bucs were to "reach" on a lower-rated QB and he turns into Christian Ponder, he'll have been a bad pick. If the Bucs "reach" on a lower-rated QB and he turns into Ben Roethlisberger or Aaron Rodgers, he'll have been a good pick. It's that simple.

      I'm with you on the issue of "reach."  For one thing, what is the "reach" based on? Some pundit who's never drafted a guy in his life and his mock draft or prospect rankings that don't take into account scheme or fit? My epiphany on this was looking at the shots of the Dallas Cowboy's board that ended up on the web a few years ago. Some of it was chalk, but they had some players much higher on there than I would have guessed, and some players much lower than I'd have guessed.  Taking Travis Frederick where they did seemed high to me, but are they supposed to hope that they are the only team that had that high an opinion on Travis Frederick?

    • Anonymous

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      Well, when the analysts make a mock, they act like it’s set in stone. Heck, the fanbases act the same.When you're drafting, I think you should look for talent, then get it on your team as long as it doesn't completely break the bank. The opinions of others should not matter whatsoever, but in many cases hc and gm's will cave to the popular pick to ease  the boos they'll get.

    • Anonymous

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      aren't the Bucs in a bit of a Catch-22 though with respect to QBs? It looks like if they are not sold on Glennon they would have to "reach" for one this draft. If they dont "reach" and say they go 8-8 this year, they would not be in a very good position for one of next year's QBs, right?

      1. In the end, there's no such thing as a "reach" or a "steal". The only thing there is are good players and bad players. If the Bucs were to "reach" on a lower-rated QB and he turns into Christian Ponder, he'll have been a bad pick. If the Bucs "reach" on a lower-rated QB and he turns into Ben Roethlisberger or Aaron Rodgers, he'll have been a good pick. It's that simple.

      Interesting because I thought about that point after I used the word "reach."  I think I get your point, but I guess some could call it semantics or, perhaps, just driven by the results. For example, your first scenario - "If the Bucs were to "reach" on a lower-rated QB and he turns into Christian Ponder, he'll have been a bad pick -- described what I meant by "reach," I was just accepting as fact that the consensus was that none of the available QBs would be a #7 pick but for the class. If your first scenario played out with, say, Carr then after the fact everyone would be calling the Carr pick a "reach" driven by need.

      In my mind calling a player "reach" before he's played means it's already a forgone conclusion that player is going to be bad. My point is no one knows if whichever QB the Bucs may pick at #7 will have been a "reach" until a few years later. Scouting is an inexact science. Scouts are wrong all the time and sometimes players who have flaws are able to overcome those flaws. The only thing we'll know about whichever QB the Bucs pick at #7 is at least a few teams thought there was something wrong with him. Whether they were right, we won't know for a little while. As I said, Ben Roethlisberger and Aaron Rodgers were picked where they were picked for a reason. People were wrong.

    • Anonymous

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      1. In the end, there's no such thing as a "reach" or a "steal". The only thing there is are good players and bad players. If the Bucs were to "reach" on a lower-rated QB and he turns into Christian Ponder, he'll have been a bad pick. If the Bucs "reach" on a lower-rated QB and he turns into Ben Roethlisberger or Aaron Rodgers, he'll have been a good pick. It's that simple.

      I'm with you on the issue of "reach."  For one thing, what is the "reach" based on? Some pundit who's never drafted a guy in his life and his mock draft or prospect rankings that don't take into account scheme or fit? My epiphany on this was looking at the shots of the Dallas Cowboy's board that ended up on the web a few years ago. Some of it was chalk, but they had some players much higher on there than I would have guessed, and some players much lower than I'd have guessed.  Taking Travis Frederick where they did seemed high to me, but are they supposed to hope that they are the only team that had that high an opinion on Travis Frederick?

      In other words, you go get the guys you want at the value you place on them.  After the fact some might describe a failed pick as a "reach" but it was not in the technical sense if you went with your own analysis? So, for example, if the Bucs had the App State WR (D. Jackson) as a third round pick or lower, it was a "reach" for them to take him in the 2nd, but it would not have been if they legitimately had him as a 2nd round talent (even if many of the pundits disagreed)?Is that what you guys mean because that seems reasonable?

    • Anonymous

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      I can’t speak for FRG, but yeah, I think that’s right. Obviously you have to pay attention to what other teams "might" do - that matters when you are contemplating trades - but you have to trust your own evaluations of players.  My world would work like this - let's say player X is the highest guy on your board, and he ranks a 7.0. Most mocks have him getting drafted a whole round later. If you have 5 guys at 6.9 you might trade down 6 spots assuming that you could at least get one of those guys if the 7.0 was gone.  But what if the next tier of guys is 6.5? I wouldn't trade down from the 7.0 hoping that the Kipers of the world were right.  As for D-Jax, I don't remember anything definitive being reported, but I thought I remember that we were panicked by the run on WRs. I'm guessing he wasn't as high as that on our board.

    • Anonymous

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      Manziel, IF he has a OC/HC that will set up plays correctly for him, the sky is the limit. He's only going to be held back by someone trying to change him drastically.

      Forget about Manziel. No respectable scout says he is anything more than a 2nd round pick.Listen to Cosell and that is exactly what the problem is going to be. He just can't function as a QB in the NFL right now. Maybe he'll get better and be able to stand in the pocket very consistently but it's a gamble to pick a guy to do something he's never been able to do so far. I believe Jdub said it well when he said that the progression of the college and NFL game is such that guys are much more advanced earlier on and are pretty much what they are early on in their career. He's just not a pocket passer and according to Cosell, doesn't seem to understand his own offense and routinely doesn't throw on time to open receivers. That is not a recipe for success in the NFL.

    • Anonymous

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      BucNY, could you explain that one a bit more? btw, interesting series on drafting with the Carolina GM (Gettlemen). http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/01/27/4644649/carolina-panthers-gm-dave-gettleman.html#.UufD4BAo4wF

    • Anonymous

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      yeah, I just did. Sorry

    • Anonymous

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      BucNY, could you explain that one a bit more? btw, interesting series on drafting with the Carolina GM (Gettlemen). http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/01/27/4644649/carolina-panthers-gm-dave-gettleman.html#.UufD4BAo4wF

      Very interesting point on college WRs and the 20 hour rule that I don't see a lot of people picking up on...