I’ve been visiting these boards for quite some time and have now decided to throw some thoughts out every now and then.
My husband and I don’t see eye to eye politically. But we manage to still have discussions because we know each other is coming from a place of mutual respect and the desire to identify the real problems.
I’m a lifelong democrat and as such, I have trouble with our President. However, with the ability to really see from a different perspective thru my husband’s view point, when you take out the rhetoric Trump spews there are plenty of things to celebrate. I see a lot of hate on these boards. Unfortunately, most of the vitriol comes from “my fellow travelers”(as my hubby would say).
As a Democrat I am concerned that my party is being taken over by the extreme element. This concerns me and it should concern everyone. How can I take a person seriously when they say “walls don’t work”. That is nonsense and there is plenty of evidence showing law enforcement on the border stating the need for barrier protection. Another thing that makes me cringe is when people berate Trump for saying Mexico would pay for it. It is complete intellectual dishonesty to have believed Trump meant they would just write us a check. There are even interviews out there that show then candidate Trump stating how new trade deals, reduction in government spending on benefits for those crossers etc will pay for it.
Ok so i’ve Started rambling…..that’s what girls do:)
The point is, there seems to be little chance for real discussion here and really bothers me that it’s those on the left that shut it down more often than not. Actually it has now just become a game of out doing each other in shutting down the conversation. We ALL need to stop taking EVERYTHING from “our side” as uncorupted truth and labeling the other side as EVERYTHING being BS.
It is funny that a percentage of the population, including yourself, now believe that walls don’t work. That would sure be a devastating blow to the construction industry…..why do you hate the construction industry? You see what I did there? Ridiculous, right? Get the picture sweetheart?
If you were an honest or intelligent broker in such discussions, you would denounce such ludicrous statements forthwith. I suppose you would have also recognized there are more ways to pay for something than to write a check.
It’s really quite fitting that you would be the first to respond. I have watched you sit on your holier than though pedestal and bash everything that doesn’t align with your belief system. You, bless you heart, are a perfect example of what is wrong with our country. You are nothing more than an ideologue in denial. You bash Trump and his supporters for wanting a wall. Did you bash democrats when they supported a wall some years ago?
You mock other posters for talking about an improved economy. Read that again and try really hard to understand the implications of what you would support based on said bashing. You and the extremist left leader of what is left of my “Kennedy Democratic Party” mocked the tax cuts for a year. Well guess what Sweetie, I’m not the only democrat wavering on the fence. A coworker of mine, who has a stay at home wife raising their children, is getting a $2500.00 increase on his tax return over last year. Another, single male, is getting a $600.00 increase over last year. How do think they view people that have bashed Trump’s tax cuts as being only for the rich?? Because they listened to people like you that only echoed “Trump bad” for so long and can now see and touch that false narrative, they are looking at other issues and finding reason to doubt their rage against Trump. Do you think that is isolated to those two people?
If MY Democrat Party doesn’t do something about the extremists within, it will fail. It starts by having the courage, desire and intelligence to actually listen to the other sides point of view. More importantly, in your case, to actually listen your sides point of view and be willing to call bs when it is bs!
As for your comment about having a gun to my head; do you not think it possible for a woman to have different core beliefs on some issues and share other core beliefs on other issues with her husband? Do you not think I have the ability to think for myself? Do you not recognize the ability to common ground? Like I said, you and your arrogant brethren are the problem with this country. It’s that attitude that allowed Pelosi to deny Trump ANY money for the wall. I can just see you now, with that little thing in your hand, during the shutdown fantasizing about all of those federal employees building rage against Trump. Your myopic view doesn’t allow for the possibility that any of them, much less a possible majority, saw it as Pelosi being the one guilty of playing politics. Additionally, The outcome if she continues with her stance for three more weeks will not be good for her. Especially as more people start filing those tax returns and find out the “crumbs” they are getting back make for a pretty damn full bakery! But please, continue mindlessly bashing your opponents and those on the side of our once great party.
Good job! Excellent “discussion”. God forbid you consider anything outside of your comfort zone.
So you are saying I am not a frustrated democrat. Do you think there is no such thing as a democrat in today’s America that looks at the job numbers, tax cuts, tough stance on trade, calm North Korea, the Kavanaugh fiasco, the border debate etc and wonders why these issues are so divisive? I have news for you. I am among a rapidly growing number.
Again, congratulations on being part of the problem within our country. You’re a lemming and a cancer to the fabric of our society. You think that because you are able to classify different groups of people into different categories of victimization that you are superior to those that believe in a more hand up, not hand out system.
You and your little group of friends have ruined this board. It is not possible to have a meaningful discussion. Which is exactly why I took so long to start posting. I thought a middle of the road, pragmatic person could elicit some debate. You boys just need to continue your happy little circle of friends and keep your politics in here.
Sorry it’s soooo many words. I sure hope you don’t get a headache from all of that reading. Bless you heart!
No, but not too long ago I was anything but on the fence. The beginning was the debacle of Obamacare. The spark was hearing the words “we have to pass the bill before we know what’s in it” out of Pelosi’s mouth. Hmm, that’s an odd statement. So I started to pay more attention. Then, what do you know, my premiums and deductions went up. That’s not to say it was over night….still in progress.
But, for f*cks sake sir, the constant bashing of Trump. The good things that have happened during his presidency outweigh, in a lot of people’s minds, the bad. A big chunk of that weight is noticing the severe downplay or omission of the accomplishments. To “the resistance” everything out of Trump’s mouth is speculative and vile while his followers are full of conspiracies. And how in the world can you not plainly see the double standard in reports about crime and corruption in the capitol? C’mon!? I hate to say it and wouldn’t have admitted to it a few years ago but, they do look A LOT like process crimes.
So, to “keep it short”…lol. No, I don’t have it figured out. But I am trying. Rumor has it that one of the very best ways to figure something out is to look, listen and pay due respect to all sides of the argument. That is what I at least try to do. Can you honestly say the same thing? Or are you the one that has it all figured out?
Again, excellent discussion! For some reason you just can’t fathom a democrat in today’s America that aligns themself with what was once called the blue dog democrat platform. In your mind, unless I go straight down the line according to the Pelosi’s of the world, I can’t possibly be a democrat?! That is sad and again shows why you are the problem in this country. It’s your way or no way?! And here you are on an almost daily basis spewing “the virtues” of being a modern American liberal. You know all that inclusiveness, respect, compassion and don’t forget the big one nowadays intellectual superiority.
Except for for the last one, those qualities are what brought me to the democrat party to begin with. The cucks that make up the party now just use them disingenuously to find the next “victim” and brow beat anyone that steps out of line. We have morphed into a party that disregards the rule of law, scoffs at the constitution, encourages people to make a treacherous thousand mile journey to our border and try to blame the republicans when they stand with said rule of law. It’s not like they are stupid laws that shouldn’t be on the books. These are laws that attempt to control or AT LEAST know who is coming into our country.
I’ll tell you the last straw for me. The new full term abortion law in NY. Do you agree with this? Do you understand what that means? You can’t call this a mass of cells. This is about FULLY DEVELOPED, nine months in the womb babies! Do you think this is some painless, serene death of the baby? It’s not. And it’s not limited to any kind of medical emergency standard. It is literally whatever the “mother” wants for any reason or no reason at all. Where is the line? Will that change in a few years…..”hey, you know this 3 month old is really hurting my social life. Maybe I’ll take advantage of that new test drive abortion law”….You undoubtedly support this because it’s part of the advancement of the party’s platform. If you don’t support it you must be a MAGA hat wearing Trump supporter.
Our party is is being run into the ground by extremists and you are apparently ok with that.
Explain to me with some brevity exactly how you currently consider yourself either a liberal and aligned with the Democratic platform. Unless of course you’re referring to the 19th century Democratic platform, then everything you’re saying would make sense.
I am about at the point where I wouldn’t consider myself a modern democrat and definitely not a modern liberal. Like most people I was a young liberal. I bought in to whole platform. Until the last few years, I always thought of myself as a diehard democrat.
I hate the idea of crony capitalism. The problem in defending against it in a free capitalist society lies with society itself. You can legislate until the cows come home but where there is greed there is corruption. Part of my new mindset tells me that the modern liberal wants more government control over most aspects. This will only lead to stronger barriers against any effort to root it out. Those in control now, would ultimately have more control. I guess that would tie into respecting our judeo-Christian founding. This is new for me though. I always believed in the stereotypes of the fat cat republicans hoarding it all. It’s just not true.
Of course when I was in school, free tuition was a huge topic. Now, when I step back and look at the situation, I ask who has the overwhelming control over the university system? The same people who preach the unfairness of having to pay for college are the ones responsible for the sky rocketing costs…..see paragraph 2 re control and corruption.
I want more money for social security and disability recipients. What I have found by talking to a lot more conservatives lately, is they want the same. The biggest problem is the giving away of so much of that money to illegal immigrants. I have never been in favor of illegal immigration and have always thought of it as the biggest hindrance to increased benefits for our citizens.
Always been pro choice. Never liked tax dollars being used. Can’t stand the blase’ attitude surrounding abortion and treating it as birth control.
Don’t like the idea of having troops all over the world engaged in conflict……seems as though Trump doesn’t like that either.
No, not 19th century democrat party. As stated a Kennedy – blue dog democrat. Not sure if that was supposed to be a joke or an attempt to align me with white supremacy because I like the direction our country is headed. If so, why can you not just take the terms illegal and legal immigration at face value? Because for the overwhelming supporters of a strong border, that’s what they do. Question; how many illegal aliens are in the country right now? Can’t be answered with anything better than a roughly 10 million person discrepancy. So there is no way of knowing who we let in. How about if you move down near the border and just hire comepletely random illegal immigrants to do some work around your house while you go to work everyday and leave your loved ones at home. Didn’t think so.
I used to have that pie in the sky feeling that I was on the good side, fighting against the man. At some point along the way the democrat party has become the man. It’s undeniable and very troubling.
Excellent posts Lefty – I’d encourage you to look at some of the debates with Dave Rubin on the Rubin Report. He’s had on some excellent guests and as a classic liberal he’s not a “crazy right winger” so he brings a thoughtfulness to his questions grounded in what most would consider reality. Myself, I’ve gone well past his “classic liberal” label as I see the left for what they are now.