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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 265

      What do you have to say about THAT garbage can performance?  You were OUT THERE FOR THAT ONE.  No excuses…man up.What the hell is wrong with Lovie Smith? 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 861

      What do you have to say about THAT garbage can performance?  You were OUT THERE FOR THAT ONE.  No excuses...man up.What the hell is wrong with Lovie Smith?

        Why do you ask?Am not at all surprised. Wonder what excuse we will hear this week. Or maybe he'll take a fit because someone had the gall to question him.If you get someone to answer, would you please ask why Koenen is still here?  ThanksUnc

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 49

      dear gerald.sign with another team instead of the bucs.. dont waste your career here

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1091

      The biggest problem was the Raven gameplan and them using a three step drop for Flacco and rolling him away from the left side of Johnson and McCoy. Not a whole lot any defensive lineman can do when a team is using three step drops to get the ball out quick and attempt to help a line that was starting two rookies on the life side. Except for play press coverage and try to re-route receivers off the line. As for the team getting gashed by the run – it comes down to gap integrity and players and their run fits which was atrocious…

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1324

      Enough class, kick some ass.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 861

      The biggest problem was the Raven gameplan and them using a three step drop for Flacco and rolling him away from the left side of Johnson and McCoy. Not a whole lot any defensive lineman can do when a team is using three step drops to get the ball out quick and attempt to help a line that was starting two rookies on the life side. Except for play press coverage and try to re-route receivers off the line. As for the team getting gashed by the run - it comes down to gap integrity and players and their run fits which was atrocious...

      Yucc,But, But, But Lovie is a defensive guru!!!Unc

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1110

      Yucc,But, But, But Lovie is a defensive guru!!!Unc

      Worst defense in the league, on pace for worst Buc defense in history, and going for the triple crown....worst defense in NFL history.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 894

      Trade McCoy for picks next year. It’s like having Revis, great player but the needs are much greater. We have leaks all over the place and the boat is sinking

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 583

      Trade McCoy for picks next year. It's like having Revis, great player but the needs are much greater. We have leaks all over the place and the boat is sinking

      I agree.  This team is a 100% disaster on all levels.  Only the Raiders are worse run team at this point. McCoy could net a true bounty of picks but will this FO know how to make a trade like that or know what to do with the picks? 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1324

      Trade McCoy for picks next year. It's like having Revis, great player but the needs are much greater. We have leaks all over the place and the boat is sinking

      I agree.  This team is a 100% disaster on all levels.  Only the Raiders are worse run team at this point. McCoy could net a true bounty of picks but will this FO know how to make a trade like that or know what to do with the picks?

      That's the question. They have shown, so far, that as far as player evaluation goes "they" are lacking. Now, because Lovie himself hired the GM, instead of the other way around as is normally done, do we trust LOVIE to 1)make a decent trade and 2) know what to do with the bounty?Right now, I do not.Nice to see you Curt, long time no post.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 583

      Trade McCoy for picks next year. It's like having Revis, great player but the needs are much greater. We have leaks all over the place and the boat is sinking

      I agree.  This team is a 100% disaster on all levels.  Only the Raiders are worse run team at this point. McCoy could net a true bounty of picks but will this FO know how to make a trade like that or know what to do with the picks?

      That's the question. They have shown, so far, that as far as player evaluation goes "they" are lacking. Now, because Lovie himself hired the GM, instead of the other way around as is normally done, do we trust LOVIE to 1)make a decent trade and 2) know what to do with the bounty?Right now, I do not.Nice to see you Curt, long time no post.

      You too Garv.  Well, at least we aren't the Raiders.  I guess I can take comfort in that.  We're number 31, We're number 31This feels like a rudderless ship.  Schiano had a plan.  It was a stupid plan, but he had a plan.  This is a team that evaluated its talent and schemes as play off worthy two months ago. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      Trade McCoy for picks next year. It's like having Revis, great player but the needs are much greater. We have leaks all over the place and the boat is sinking

      I agree.  This team is a 100% disaster on all levels.  Only the Raiders are worse run team at this point. McCoy could net a true bounty of picks but will this FO know how to make a trade like that or know what to do with the picks?

      That's the question. They have shown, so far, that as far as player evaluation goes "they" are lacking. Now, because Lovie himself hired the GM, instead of the other way around as is normally done, do we trust LOVIE to 1)make a decent trade and 2) know what to do with the bounty?Right now, I do not.Nice to see you Curt, long time no post.

      You too Garv.  Well, at least we aren't the Raiders.  I guess I can take comfort in that.  We're number 31, We're number 31This feels like a rudderless ship.  Schiano had a plan.  It was a stupid plan, but he had a plan.  This is a team that evaluated its talent and schemes as play off worthy two months ago.

      LOL Now THAT'S something to cheer about! We were mock cheering an occasional penalty that got us a first down yesterday, or the amazing couple of times the Ravens actually PUNTED! Wish I had thought of WE'RE NUMBER 31! WE'RE NUMBER 31!

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2962

      At this rate DT will be a big need for us next season as well. No way McCoy sticks around. Why would he??? The fans??? lol. Our only hope is to franchise him, which sucks for everyone.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2829

      Some of you are starting to see the light on this fraud. Too late to trade him for anything significant though.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 357

      McCoy a FRAUD??!! You get worse and worse. If he played at LSU you would think he was the best DT  of all-time!Don't know why some of you want to trade the best player on this team. Also, he will be a FA after this year unless we franchise him.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5438

      Lol at @ fraud.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 503

      For whatever reason, I thought we knew football a little more than some of these comments would suggest. Smh

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 894

      McCoy a FRAUD??!! You get worse and worse. If he played at LSU you would think he was the best DT  of all-time!Don't know why some of you want to trade the best player on this team. Also, he will be a FA after this year unless we franchise him.

      bucjoe, to me it's the chicken and the egg. Do you keep your, oh so few stars(McCoy & David) and build around them or go the Jimmy Johnson route and fire sale those two and get more picks? To me this three year coach rotation is pure lunacy. It has to stop because every three years we rip out the plumbing and electrical wiring and start all over again, remodeling the house with new ideas. New coaches, schemes, philosophies, coaches and players and we fans suffer. I think McCoy and David are special and we should keep them but on balance and the $64,000 question is do we build around them or get picks and start over. I am lost, truly lost.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1858

      McCoy a FRAUD??!! You get worse and worse. If he played at LSU you would think he was the best DT  of all-time!Don't know why some of you want to trade the best player on this team. Also, he will be a FA after this year unless we franchise him.

      bucjoe, to me it's the chicken and the egg. Do you keep your, oh so few stars(McCoy & David) and build around them or go the Jimmy Johnson route and fire sale those two and get more picks? To me this three year coach rotation is pure lunacy. It has to stop because every three years we rip out the plumbing and electrical wiring and start all over again, remodeling the house with new ideas. New coaches, schemes, philosophies, coaches and players and we fans suffer. I think McCoy and David are special and we should keep them but on balance and the $64,000 question is do we build around them or get picks and start over. I am lost, truly lost.

      It's not the question though, because even if you could get two 1st round picks those two picks have a small chance (statistically) of turning into a player of McCoy's calibre.  That trade makes sense in 3 years when McCoy is past his prime, not when he's in it.Teams that firesale their best talent, when they lack talent to start with, end up like the 2009 Bucs and the 2012 Raiders.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9891

      Some of you are starting to see the light on this fraud.

      You give yourself too much credit, most of us have see through your nonsense for a long time

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      Even with statistics, and even with McCoy being a great player, has he made a difference? An extra first and 16 million of cap space could be huge. Just buy a subscription to pff and sign the guys with the pressures stats.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1858

      Even with statistics, and even with McCoy being a great player, has he made a difference? An extra first and 16 million of cap space could be huge. Just buy a subscription to pff and sign the guys with the pressures stats.

      Yes, he's made a huge difference.  Just because he can't win games by himself (see Watt, J.J.) doesn't mean he's not playing at a high level.And who do you spend that extra 16 mill on? This is what's driving me crazy - the Bucs literally HAVE NOTHING TO SPEND THAT MONEY ON!!!! We've been spending TONS in FA every year since 2011 and have nothing to show for it.  So we should use it to bring in more Michael Johnson's and Dashon Goldson's?  It's almost like teams spend their cap money on their best players so they don't hit free agency...Instead, we have a chance to re-up with our best player in his prime, who's also the best 4-3 DT in football, and we have the cap space... and people want to TRADE him!?!?!?!  I apologize for the virulence, but it's insane.  Actually insane.  edit: And the reason you can even say he's a great player while questioning if he's made a difference is because WE HAVE BARELY ANY TALENT.  He's literally the only good player on our DL.  Maybe Gholston develops, maybe Johnson starts playing to his contract, maybe McDonald maintains gap integrity... but right now we literally have one DL making plays.Which gets to the Ravens game.  How were the Ravens able to both scheme purely against McCoy and slide away from him all the time? Because no one else on the DL can make a play. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Even with statistics, and even with McCoy being a great player, has he made a difference? An extra first and 16 million of cap space could be huge. Just buy a subscription to pff and sign the guys with the pressures stats.

      Yes, he's made a huge difference.  Just because he can't win games by himself (see Watt, J.J.) doesn't mean he's not playing at a high level.And who do you spend that extra 16 mill on? This is what's driving me crazy - the Bucs literally HAVE NOTHING TO SPEND THAT MONEY ON!!!! We've been spending TONS in FA every year since 2011 and have nothing to show for it.  So we should use it to bring in more Michael Johnson's and Dashon Goldson's?  It's almost like teams spend their cap money on their best players so they don't hit free agency...Instead, we have a chance to re-up with our best player in his prime, who's also the best 4-3 DT in football, and we have the cap space... and people want to TRADE him!?!?!?!  I apologize for the virulence, but it's insane.  Actually insane.

      Abso-f*cking-lutely.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      Instead of bringing in the goldsons and mjs, what if we bring in the guys that pff tell us to? Not the probowlers who want the huge deals, but the willie youngs Michael Bennett’s Wallace gilberrys? The guys that win the pressures stat?I like McCoy, I just question if its the best use of our cap. Its been said that teams can always scheme him, and he hasn't shown to consistently beat it. And if we tie up a huge chunk of our cap on him, how will we surround him with elite players?

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 503

      Even with statistics, and even with McCoy being a great player, has he made a difference? An extra first and 16 million of cap space could be huge. Just buy a subscription to pff and sign the guys with the pressures stats.

      Yes, he's made a huge difference.  Just because he can't win games by himself (see Watt, J.J.) doesn't mean he's not playing at a high level.And who do you spend that extra 16 mill on? This is what's driving me crazy - the Bucs literally HAVE NOTHING TO SPEND THAT MONEY ON!!!! We've been spending TONS in FA every year since 2011 and have nothing to show for it.  So we should use it to bring in more Michael Johnson's and Dashon Goldson's?  It's almost like teams spend their cap money on their best players so they don't hit free agency...Instead, we have a chance to re-up with our best player in his prime, who's also the best 4-3 DT in football, and we have the cap space... and people want to TRADE him!?!?!?!  I apologize for the virulence, but it's insane.  Actually insane.

      Abso-f*cking-lutely.

      One player cannot do it alone. McCoy is the only guy teams gameplan against, our only hope to create pressure, and some of you would let him out the building? That would be a monumental error. We need more guys like Gerald, not less.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5438

      Instead of bringing in the goldsons and mjs, what if we bring in the guys that pff tell us to? Not the probowlers who want the huge deals, but the willie youngs Michael Bennett's Wallace gilberrys? The guys that win the pressures stat?I like McCoy, I just question if its the best use of our cap. Its been said that teams can always scheme him, and he hasn't shown to consistently beat it. And if we tie up a huge chunk of our cap on him, how will we surround him with elite players?

      The PFFers have really set up camp in that dome, huh?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Instead of bringing in the goldsons and mjs, what if we bring in the guys that pff tell us to? Not the probowlers who want the huge deals, but the willie youngs Michael Bennett's Wallace gilberrys? The guys that win the pressures stat?I like McCoy, I just question if its the best use of our cap. Its been said that teams can always scheme him, and he hasn't shown to consistently beat it. And if we tie up a huge chunk of our cap on him, how will we surround him with elite players?

      The PFFers have really set up camp in that dome, huh?

      just cant argue against consistent pressures anymore I guess.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Instead of bringing in the goldsons and mjs, what if we bring in the guys that pff tell us to? Not the probowlers who want the huge deals, but the willie youngs Michael Bennett's Wallace gilberrys? The guys that win the pressures stat?I like McCoy, I just question if its the best use of our cap. Its been said that teams can always scheme him, and he hasn't shown to consistently beat it. And if we tie up a huge chunk of our cap on him, how will we surround him with elite players?

      The PFFers have really set up camp in that dome, huh?

      just cant argue against consistent pressures anymore I guess.

      Hopefully the pro personal department actually uses film study vs looking at PFF.Seems like they have been just using youtube highlight vids, though. Vids that have all the low-lights on the cutting room floor.Also, we can sign GMC and still have plenty of $ to grab contributors. We should see several players bounced next year. Goldson would save $5mil. McCown would save $5.25mil. Michael Koenen would save $3.25mil.If the cap number for '15 stays the same as '14, then the Bucs would currently be under the cap by about $36mil. If they make any or all 3 of those cuts, that would put them between $39mil and $49.5mil under the cap.Either way, they would have plenty of $ to give GMC a deal that was just under what Watt got, probably averaging around $16mil.They could also re-sign Foster for a fair salery, if they decided he was worth it.This leaves plenty of money to go out and grab guys who can contribute. It doesn't have to be blockbuster deals. Some names that could be 2015 good value pick ups.Orlando Franklin, OG, Denver. Denver's list of FAs includes (both Thomas', Welker, Knighton, Tamme, etc) I don't see them paying Franklin the necessary $4-7mil to keep him.Terrance Knighton. DT, Denver. Same as above, I think they will be forced to allow Knighton to walk. If Knighton could be signed for a McDonald-esque salary, then he'd be well worth it.Jarrell Freeman, ILB, Indianapolis Not many know his name, but he is a very solid LB with the skillset to play an ILB in either a 3-4 or a 4-3. Would be an upgrade over Foster if he ends up on the market.Devin McCourty, FS, New England McCourty is a top 3-5 safety in the league. The Patriots are right up against the cap and will have to make decisions on Revis, Connolly, Vereen, Ridley, and Gostkowski. The is a slight chance he makes it to the market. If he does, give him teh exact deal you gave Goldson and you will be happy. He can actually cover and tackle.John Jerry, OG, NY Giants He isn't a mauler, he isn't an all-pro. He is just a solid OG. He won't command a lot of money on the open market. Would be a solid RG for us for a year or two. Definitely would be an upgrade over what we are seeing from the RG position.Brandon Graham, 3-4 OLB, Philadelphia I think he is athletic enough to generate pass rush as a rotational guy in a 4-3. Could be worth a look if he would accept $2.5ish a year.Jerry Hughes, DE, Buffalo A smaller speed end. Has played both DE and 3-4 OLB. Could be a good option as a rotational edge rusher.Brandon Flowers, CB, San Diego Signed a 1 year $3+mil contract with the Chargers in '14. If we could get something similar done with him for a year or two, that would be a good deal.Jabaal Sheard, DE/3-4OLB Sheard has played both a DE and a3-4 OLB. Could definitely help out our pass rush....if the price is right, of course.Chris Culliver, CB, San Francisco Buy beware on these SF DBs. Seems to be a solid CB that could be had on the cheap. Could be a nice risk/reward type signing if his cap number is held at around $4mil or below.Above are just some of the guys who could be FA value signings. There are plenty of other higher profile names out there who will either break the bank, or will be re-signed. Players like JPP, Avril, Greg Hardy, Suh, Orakpo, Worilds, Iupati, Kareem Jackson, Dez Bryant, Demaryius and Julius Thomas, Demarco Murray, Clint Boling, etc.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 861

      You want Heckle and Jeckle to make the picks after we gain some picks wit getting rid of some star starters?Are you out of your mind?Name one player they brought in this year that is a star? Evans and ASJ maybe-way too soon to tell, but where are the rest, for all the money spent? Remember Deese and company?  Deja vu!!!.I can name a whole bunch they brought in who are nothing and it starts with the 34 year old QB.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Even with statistics, and even with McCoy being a great player, has he made a difference? An extra first and 16 million of cap space could be huge. Just buy a subscription to pff and sign the guys with the pressures stats.

      Yes, he's made a huge difference.  Just because he can't win games by himself (see Watt, J.J.) doesn't mean he's not playing at a high level.And who do you spend that extra 16 mill on? This is what's driving me crazy - the Bucs literally HAVE NOTHING TO SPEND THAT MONEY ON!!!! We've been spending TONS in FA every year since 2011 and have nothing to show for it.  So we should use it to bring in more Michael Johnson's and Dashon Goldson's?  It's almost like teams spend their cap money on their best players so they don't hit free agency...Instead, we have a chance to re-up with our best player in his prime, who's also the best 4-3 DT in football, and we have the cap space... and people want to TRADE him!?!?!?!  I apologize for the virulence, but it's insane.  Actually insane.  edit: And the reason you can even say he's a great player while questioning if he's made a difference is because WE HAVE BARELY ANY TALENT.  He's literally the only good player on our DL.  Maybe Gholston develops, maybe Johnson starts playing to his contract, maybe McDonald maintains gap integrity... but right now we literally have one DL making plays.Which gets to the Ravens game.  How were the Ravens able to both scheme purely against McCoy and slide away from him all the time? Because no one else on the DL can make a play.

      He's a good player that plays a low impact position. He has had plenty of opportunities to get to the QB and make a difference in the outcome of the game and he just doesn't. He's been built up by the fan base because of his draft status and charisma. What's your plan? Tag him at $18.7M and then what? Give him $100M or tag him again at $22.5M? At some point we have to stop paying him QB money, and he's not going to take a paycut. So the only options are to trade him now or let him walk and take a compensation pick. The current option of paying him a million dollars a week for some run stuffs and minimal to no pressure is nothing but a failure.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 357

      Chace, I like a LOT of the guys on your list!,

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Theres no dog in McCoy. No dog.Ive taken lots of heat for not being all gaga over McCoy like many are , but something has never quite set right with me with this guy.I think this is what it is. No dog. Back him into a corner where he either has to fight and claw his way out or roll over and die , he will roll over and die. Every time. And he will do so with a smile on his face.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 357

      Dolorous, I couldn’t disagree with you more.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Well then show me the dog.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9276

      i HATE to agree with Dolorous but i do….i, too, believe he’s kinda soft and it seems Sapp agrees as well. Problem is he’s all we’ve got so you have to keep him.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      You love to agree with me. Dont lie.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5438

      Tamba Hali just helped Philip Rivers up off the ground…Let's rage.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Was he getting his ass pounded 38-0 ??

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9891

      Tamba Hali just helped Philip Rivers up off the ground...Let's rage.

      lolIronic that Sapp is a savant and his comment about McCoy are dead on while Brooks is an idiot or a "company man"for calling for patience. Oh ... the Red Board

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3341

      Tamba Hali just helped Philip Rivers up off the ground...Let's rage.

      Hali has no dog in him.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1858

      i HATE to agree with Dolorous but i do....i, too, believe he's kinda soft and it seems Sapp agrees as well. Problem is he's all we've got so you have to keep him.

      You're better than that Hate.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 310

      :) Seriously?  Some of you are that knowing?  What’s your hurry with this opinion?  This is an experienced Coach; not a Morris or a Schiano.  We have done a poor job in drafting and in free agency for years.  Okay it won’t be the first time nor the last time. See Buccaneers since 1976 and most of it’s existence.  If you”re so offended then turn off the Cable Box and don’t buy the tickets.  Give this at least until after the 2015 season.  I just don’t understand the thinking hear?  Do you have your mine right?  Hmm… 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 894

      At this rate DT will be a big need for us next season as well. No way McCoy sticks around. Why would he??? The fans??? lol. Our only hope is to franchise him, which sucks for everyone.

      Look, I really like McCoy but he is no Sapp. No dog in him. Trade MaCoy, VJAX and Martin for picks.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 159

      Look, I really like McCoy but he is no Sapp. No dog in him. Trade MaCoy, VJAX and Martin for picks.

      Sorry, but this is not the answer.  Maybe getting rid of Jackson because of age if for decent value.  Otherwise, his mentoring and work ethic has value.  This team got rid of Revis for nothing.  Then last week I have to watch a PC with Smith telling us that we don’t have enough talent at CB.  That may have been the dumbest thing anyone has ever said in the history of the NFL.  I’m glad someone told him and he backtracked on the comments later in the week.  Any defense that can’t utilize a Revis is a 32nd ranked defense. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9276

      Tamba Hali just helped Philip Rivers up off the ground...Let's rage.

      lolIronic that Sapp is a savant and his comment about McCoy are dead on while Brooks is an idiot or a "company man"for calling for patience. Oh ... the Red Board

      I don't recall Brooks helping anyone up...i do recall him threatening to knock a guy's chest off, lol.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9276

      i HATE to agree with Dolorous but i do....i, too, believe he's kinda soft and it seems Sapp agrees as well. Problem is he's all we've got so you have to keep him.

      You're better than that Hate.

      Better than what?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Tamba Hali just helped Philip Rivers up off the ground...Let's rage.

      lolIronic that Sapp is a savant and his comment about McCoy are dead on while Brooks is an idiot or a "company man"for calling for patience. Oh ... the Red Board

      I'm all for criticizing McCoy for disappearing and not getting hands on the QB.....but the "he shouldn't help other players up" stuff is ridiculous. Happens all the time.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Out of context it’s not that big a deal. When the score is 38-0 , and you pick up the guy who is thoroughly embarrassing you , it shows a lack of passion , pride , and dog . He should have been angry at that point .

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      I'm all for criticizing McCoy for disappearing and not getting hands on the QB.....but the "he shouldn't help other players up" stuff is ridiculous. Happens all the time.

      This.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3341

      I’m sure it’s purely coincidence that most of the posters criticizing McCoy for something as petty as helping up an opposing player are the same posters that bashed McCoy since he was drafted.  Purely coincidence.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2697

      For whatever reason, I thought we knew football a little more than some of these comments would suggest. Smh

      on this board?...lolThe first 10 posters have a combined football IQ of 5....

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      I'm sure it's purely coincidence that most of the posters criticizing McCoy for something as petty as helping up an opposing player are the same posters that bashed McCoy since he was drafted.  Purely coincidence.

      ...and I'm sure it's purely coincidence that the posters who have been swinging from McTwiggarms nuts since the day he was drafted want to ignore all this . Purely Coincidence.Who's word should you take on the topic of toughness.  Warren Sapp or the Biggsbury Dough Boy. You decide.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 894

      Even with statistics, and even with McCoy being a great player, has he made a difference? An extra first and 16 million of cap space could be huge. Just buy a subscription to pff and sign the guys with the pressures stats.

      Yes, he's made a huge difference.  Just because he can't win games by himself (see Watt, J.J.) doesn't mean he's not playing at a high level.And who do you spend that extra 16 mill on? This is what's driving me crazy - the Bucs literally HAVE NOTHING TO SPEND THAT MONEY ON!!!! We've been spending TONS in FA every year since 2011 and have nothing to show for it.  So we should use it to bring in more Michael Johnson's and Dashon Goldson's?  It's almost like teams spend their cap money on their best players so they don't hit free agency...Instead, we have a chance to re-up with our best player in his prime, who's also the best 4-3 DT in football, and we have the cap space... and people want to TRADE him!?!?!?!  I apologize for the virulence, but it's insane.  Actually insane.  edit: And the reason you can even say he's a great player while questioning if he's made a difference is because WE HAVE BARELY ANY TALENT.  He's literally the only good player on our DL.  Maybe Gholston develops, maybe Johnson starts playing to his contract, maybe McDonald maintains gap integrity... but right now we literally have one DL making plays.Which gets to the Ravens game.  How were the Ravens able to both scheme purely against McCoy and slide away from him all the time? Because no one else on the DL can make a play.

      Ok tog, I agree with you, he is good but if we keep him, let's support him and spend the money to get him some damn support. To me he is like having Revis, a Mercedes with a Volkswagen supporting cast. If they don't give him support, trade him for picks, if they keep him, go all in.  Martin and VJAX are expendable for picks this year IMHO. We need to rebuild through the draft, not FA's. It may be insane but putting Suh and McCoy together would create nightmares.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1858

      i HATE to agree with Dolorous but i do....i, too, believe he's kinda soft and it seems Sapp agrees as well. Problem is he's all we've got so you have to keep him.

      You're better than that Hate.

      Better than what?

      Better than agreeing with Dolorous.  Better than suggesting that because McCoy helps players up, it means he has no "dog" and this somehow impacts his play? It's like complaining Revis doesn't trash talk enough.He's the best 4-3 DT in football.  And you're still finding something to complain about.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1312

      Out of context it's not that big a deal. When the score is 38-0 , and you pick up the guy who is thoroughly embarrassing you , it shows a lack of passion , pride , and dog . He should have been angry at that point .

      And I imagine he surely was but it would be at himself. I see NOTHNG wrong with good sportsmansip... This shit he is taking over this is simply absurd.  Should he just spit on the player who just whipped him on the previous play? Is that "dog" enough?

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9891

      kick Selmon out of the HOF … he had no dog in himSapp played his way, Selmon and Brooks played their way. You dont have to have Sapp's personality to play DT. Shelton Quarles was a hell of an MLB for us . . . he did not play like Jack LambertIf anything, GMC should be pissed because the Bucs have been the Keystone Cops during his whole career . . . and now fans are calling him "soft" (as he is playing with a cast  . . .another horrible team)

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1858

      Even with statistics, and even with McCoy being a great player, has he made a difference? An extra first and 16 million of cap space could be huge. Just buy a subscription to pff and sign the guys with the pressures stats.

      Yes, he's made a huge difference.  Just because he can't win games by himself (see Watt, J.J.) doesn't mean he's not playing at a high level.And who do you spend that extra 16 mill on? This is what's driving me crazy - the Bucs literally HAVE NOTHING TO SPEND THAT MONEY ON!!!! We've been spending TONS in FA every year since 2011 and have nothing to show for it.  So we should use it to bring in more Michael Johnson's and Dashon Goldson's?  It's almost like teams spend their cap money on their best players so they don't hit free agency...Instead, we have a chance to re-up with our best player in his prime, who's also the best 4-3 DT in football, and we have the cap space... and people want to TRADE him!?!?!?!  I apologize for the virulence, but it's insane.  Actually insane.  edit: And the reason you can even say he's a great player while questioning if he's made a difference is because WE HAVE BARELY ANY TALENT.  He's literally the only good player on our DL.  Maybe Gholston develops, maybe Johnson starts playing to his contract, maybe McDonald maintains gap integrity... but right now we literally have one DL making plays.Which gets to the Ravens game.  How were the Ravens able to both scheme purely against McCoy and slide away from him all the time? Because no one else on the DL can make a play.

      Ok tog, I agree with you, he is good but if we keep him, let's support him and spend the money to get him some damn support. To me he is like having Revis, a Mercedes with a Volkswagen supporting cast. If they don't give him support, trade him for picks, if they keep him, go all in.  Martin and VJAX are expendable for picks this year IMHO. We need to rebuild through the draft, not FA's. It may be insane but putting Suh and McCoy together would create nightmares.

      I agree about Martin, although he doesn't have much value I'd imagine.  I'm okay with trading Vjax, but likely for not less than a 2nd.  He's a good WR, he helps us evaluate Glennon (and potentially a 1st round QB next year), and his leadership is very valuable.  Remember what the team was like under Morris with no veteran leadership - a guy like VJax provides real intangibles away from the game field and fans can undervalue that.  Mike Evans will be a better player the longer he gets to work with Vjax.  The Bucs also have the cap space to easily keep him even without restructuring.I'd also argue the Bucs have repeatedly tried to surround McCoy with talent.  They've just done a terrible job of it.  They drafted Price, Clayborn, and Bowers all with high picks.  Schiano thought Spence would be a great pairing in his defence.  L&L have brought in Johnson and Mcdonald on expensive FA contracts.I think the isuse isn't that they aren't trying to get talent around McCoy, they've just done a terrible job of it.  I think Dominik, Schiano, and Lovie have all realised they need more talent up front but have just made lots of terrible personnel moves.Grantland also has a great piece detailing what's happened to the St Louis and Seattle pass rush.  The crux of it is this: They lost interior players (DTs) to rush the pasher.  The edge rush on both those teams are doing their jobs, but there isn't any interior push.  The Bucs have the opposite problem, and after reading this it makes Johnson/Clayborn/Gholston look even worse.http://grantland.com/the-triangle/seattle-and-st-louis-pass-rush-disappeared/

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 894

      Even with statistics, and even with McCoy being a great player, has he made a difference? An extra first and 16 million of cap space could be huge. Just buy a subscription to pff and sign the guys with the pressures stats.

      Yes, he's made a huge difference.  Just because he can't win games by himself (see Watt, J.J.) doesn't mean he's not playing at a high level.And who do you spend that extra 16 mill on? This is what's driving me crazy - the Bucs literally HAVE NOTHING TO SPEND THAT MONEY ON!!!! We've been spending TONS in FA every year since 2011 and have nothing to show for it.  So we should use it to bring in more Michael Johnson's and Dashon Goldson's?  It's almost like teams spend their cap money on their best players so they don't hit free agency...Instead, we have a chance to re-up with our best player in his prime, who's also the best 4-3 DT in football, and we have the cap space... and people want to TRADE him!?!?!?!  I apologize for the virulence, but it's insane.  Actually insane.  edit: And the reason you can even say he's a great player while questioning if he's made a difference is because WE HAVE BARELY ANY TALENT.  He's literally the only good player on our DL.  Maybe Gholston develops, maybe Johnson starts playing to his contract, maybe McDonald maintains gap integrity... but right now we literally have one DL making plays.Which gets to the Ravens game.  How were the Ravens able to both scheme purely against McCoy and slide away from him all the time? Because no one else on the DL can make a play.

      Ok tog, I agree with you, he is good but if we keep him, let's support him and spend the money to get him some damn support. To me he is like having Revis, a Mercedes with a Volkswagen supporting cast. If they don't give him support, trade him for picks, if they keep him, go all in.  Martin and VJAX are expendable for picks this year IMHO. We need to rebuild through the draft, not FA's. It may be insane but putting Suh and McCoy together would create nightmares.

      I agree about Martin, although he doesn't have much value I'd imagine.  I'm okay with trading Vjax, but likely for not less than a 2nd.  He's a good WR, he helps us evaluate Glennon (and potentially a 1st round QB next year), and his leadership is very valuable.  Remember what the team was like under Morris with no veteran leadership - a guy like VJax provides real intangibles away from the game field and fans can undervalue that.  Mike Evans will be a better player the longer he gets to work with Vjax.  The Bucs also have the cap space to easily keep him even without restructuring.I'd also argue the Bucs have repeatedly tried to surround McCoy with talent.  They've just done a terrible job of it.  They drafted Price, Clayborn, and Bowers all with high picks.  Schiano thought Spence would be a great pairing in his defence.  L&L have brought in Johnson and Mcdonald on expensive FA contracts.I think the isuse isn't that they aren't trying to get talent around McCoy, they've just done a terrible job of it.  I think Dominik, Schiano, and Lovie have all realised they need more talent up front but have just made lots of terrible personnel moves.Grantland also has a great piece detailing what's happened to the St Louis and Seattle pass rush.  The crux of it is this: They lost interior players (DTs) to rush the pasher.  The edge rush on both those teams are doing their jobs, but there isn't any interior push.  The Bucs have the opposite problem, and after reading this it makes Johnson/Clayborn/Gholston look even worse.http://grantland.com/the-triangle/seattle-and-st-louis-pass-rush-disappeared/

      All valid points tog. I just want this team to get better. I think the blowouts, down 35 points in like 10 minutes is what's taking the wind out of eveyones sails. Something is not right with this team. Lovie is a proven coach unlike Raheem and Schiano. It's not Lovie's first rodeo, so something is horribly wrong. To a man, the former Bucs and everyone I talk to say the Bucs quit and are soft. SOFT. So my point is, WHOEVER is sort, WHOEVER is too stupid to get the defense, get rid of them because the culture on this team right now is putrid. Think back to Dungy. He had Nickerson, Sapp, Lynch, Barber.....all killers. We have 'Charmin Soft & Mr. Whipple' on our team. It's got to end or you can flush this fan base down the toilet....or move the team to LA where they don't care.

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    • Anonymous

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      :) Uncle Stan; way too early for those assumptions.  Lets see how Johnson does since he is finally about 95%. The only one I would agree with you is the swap out at Center. A;so ignoring the LG spot was still a mystery for me.  Fat Man Penn has done what?  Isn’t Oakland 0-6.  Joseph is not even starting. We don’t know what Sims will do and we won’t find out for probably another month.  Are you listening to the Press Conferences?  Smith sounds very logical and makes good points. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Out of context it's not that big a deal. When the score is 38-0 , and you pick up the guy who is thoroughly embarrassing you , it shows a lack of passion , pride , and dog . He should have been angry at that point .

      And I imagine he surely was but it would be at himself. I see NOTHNG wrong with good sportsmansip... This (censored) he is taking over this is simply absurd.  Should he just spit on the player who just whipped him on the previous play? Is that "dog" enough?

      No ...he should go back to the huddle and let the guy who is kicking his ass pick himself up. Pretty simple.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 861

      Horse,The last thing I want to do is listen to Lovie's press conferences. Maybe one of the worse BS ers I have ever read. He talks a good story and has since early August and I can't find anything he has said that has come to fruition. I was definitely one of the very few who was not buying into his "playoff" fever back then like you  and others did.But I have seen 2 beat downs like I haven't seen since the teams early years in the 70's.I have seen virtually nothing that he has done acquiring players and/or coaching players that is a positive.  McCown was a joke to begin with and his play proved it. I'm not saying Glennon is the long term answer, but he's head and shoulders above McCown.If I was a betting person, and I'm not, St Lovie will find a way to get McCown back on the field.Unc

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2188

      There’s only 2 players on this defense that we know can play, and some posters want to trade one of them?! GMC plays the most critical role in this D, the UT, and he’s young. Yeah, let’s trade that guy for some picks because the rest of the team sucks. Makes zero sense.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9276

      i HATE to agree with Dolorous but i do....i, too, believe he's kinda soft and it seems Sapp agrees as well. Problem is he's all we've got so you have to keep him.

      You're better than that Hate.

      Better than what?

      Better than agreeing with Dolorous.  Better than suggesting that because McCoy helps players up, it means he has no "dog" and this somehow impacts his play? It's like complaining Revis doesn't trash talk enough.He's the best 4-3 DT in football.  And you're still finding something to complain about.

      I don't dislike McCoy and wouldn't suggest that we move on from him however it's has been proven that this team lacks fire, heart and fight. He's the face of the franchise. Is it possible that a great many of his teammates follow his lead?I happen to think Dolorous is the board jester....doesn't mean i can't acknowledge the rare instance where i agree with him. Seems Sapp agrees as well...is he better than that??

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9276

      kick Selmon out of the HOF ... he had no dog in himSapp played his way, Selmon and Brooks played their way.

      Brooks was no angel on the field.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      i HATE to agree with Dolorous but i do....i, too, believe he's kinda soft and it seems Sapp agrees as well. Problem is he's all we've got so you have to keep him.

      You're better than that Hate.

      Better than what?

      Better than agreeing with Dolorous.  Better than suggesting that because McCoy helps players up, it means he has no "dog" and this somehow impacts his play? It's like complaining Revis doesn't trash talk enough.He's the best 4-3 DT in football.  And you're still finding something to complain about.

      I don't dislike McCoy and wouldn't suggest that we move on from him however it's has been proven that this team lacks fire, heart and fight. He's the face of the franchise. Is it possible that a great many of his teammates follow his lead?I happen to think Dolorous is the board jester....doesn't mean i can't acknowledge the rare instance where i agree with him. Seems Sapp agrees as well...is he better than that??

      U mad , Tog ?

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1858

      i HATE to agree with Dolorous but i do....i, too, believe he's kinda soft and it seems Sapp agrees as well. Problem is he's all we've got so you have to keep him.

      You're better than that Hate.

      Better than what?

      Better than agreeing with Dolorous.  Better than suggesting that because McCoy helps players up, it means he has no "dog" and this somehow impacts his play? It's like complaining Revis doesn't trash talk enough.He's the best 4-3 DT in football.  And you're still finding something to complain about.

      I don't dislike McCoy and wouldn't suggest that we move on from him however it's has been proven that this team lacks fire, heart and fight. He's the face of the franchise. Is it possible that a great many of his teammates follow his lead?I happen to think Dolorous is the board jester....doesn't mean i can't acknowledge the rare instance where i agree with him. Seems Sapp agrees as well...is he better than that??

      Sapp is saying McCoy shouldn't help players up.  He's not even close to suggesting McCoy doesn't have any "dog" in him.  Its the equivalent of Sapp saying he thinks McCoy should extend his right arm more during his swim move and then fans saying McCoy doesn't know how to use a swim move.And if the team lacks "fire, heart and fight" why blame McCoy? He's a leader so he should start stomping on people? He's out there accepting blame for the losses, apologizing to fans, doing extra work with teammates after practice to help them get better - and you're worried that players are following his lead.Is he soft? No. Does he lack heart? No. Does he lack fight? No.  Therefore, what lead are they following? Hate, it's a dumb argument.  McCoy has nothing to do with the team being soft one way or the other.  Why not blame Lavonte David? Dashon Goldson?  And anyways, the team lacks talent, it's not "soft".

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Actually if you actually listened to the interview on the radio , like some of us did , Sapp’s comments were in response to one of the hosts directly asking him if McCoy has enough dog in him.Come back when you know what you are talking about , Tog. The rest of us are better than that.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1324

      Horse,The last thing I want to do is listen to Lovie's press conferences. Maybe one of the worse BS ers I have ever read. He talks a good story and has since early August and I can't find anything he has said that has come to fruition. I was definitely one of the very few who was not buying into his "playoff" fever back then like you  and others did.But I have seen 2 beat downs like I haven't seen since the teams early years in the 70's.I have seen virtually nothing that he has done acquiring players and/or coaching players that is a positive.  McCown was a joke to begin with and his play proved it. I'm not saying Glennon is the long term answer, but he's head and shoulders above McCown.If I was a betting person, and I'm not, St Lovie will find a way to get McCown back on the field.Unc

      Stan, I agree with you. Listening to St. Lovie's press conferences is painful, frustrating and now it just angers me. I find him to be condescending and FOS, as if he thinks we'll buy anything he says because.......he's Lovie Smith, architect of a great LB group put together 14 YEARS AGO! I'm so DONE with his bullshitting ways. How about winning a freaking GAME? Maybe even at HOME?

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    • Anonymous

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      What do you want him to say at a press conference?  Usually seems to me that fans that get upset at presser answers aren’t being realistic with their expectations.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9891

      remember how fans used to get frustrated with Dungy during those first 5 games or so? Fans had specific remedies for the Bucs’ ills and each time Dungy would say (paraphrasing) “nope, stay the course”

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1324

      remember how fans used to get frustrated with Dungy during those first 5 games or so? Fans had specific remedies for the Bucs' ills and each time Dungy would say (paraphrasing) "nope, stay the course"

      Yes. 18 YEARS AGO! Things have changed but St. Lovie obviously has not.I hope I'm proved wrong but I'm seeing one of the WORST teams in Buccaneer history so far this season. So, we're waiting your highness, show us your players give a damn, can study this Einstein level defense, can lose weight without DRUGS, can show up on Sundays and play NFL football like that are PAID to do. Come ON!

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      Garv – do you think those are overnight fixes?

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    • Anonymous

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        Garv - do you think those are overnight fixes?

        Gametime, I know your question is to Garv but to me, there are three issues

      • The first is the misrepresentation that this was w win now, playoff, possible Super Bowl team

      The second is the blowouts

      The third is the fact that in both blow outs were were down 35 points in like 10 minutes and in the Ravens game we didn’t gain ONE YARD in our first 10 series. That’s a touchdown every two minutes. As I’ve typed in other threads, that IMPOSSIBLE is human bodies were on the field at all.Finally, I think we have an intelligent, passionate and loyal fan base. I'll give you an analogy. Say you are in a bar on Saturday night, see an absolute knock out at the other end of the bar, she is making goo goo eyes at you, you strike up a conversation, she promises you the full enchilada, you take her to her place and guess what, she has an ENCHILADA. You are pissed, bitter and angry at the he/she and super mad and embarased at yourself for being so stupid and want to get the memory out of your head. Those blow outs represent the same level of disgust from the fans with this team. Will we get over it, yes, will we support the team, yes but there are some bad feelings right now and rightfully so.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      remember how fans used to get frustrated with Dungy during those first 5 games or so? Fans had specific remedies for the Bucs' ills and each time Dungy would say (paraphrasing) "nope, stay the course"

      Yes. 18 YEARS AGO! Things have changed but St. Lovie obviously has not.I hope I'm proved wrong but I'm seeing one of the WORST teams in Buccaneer history so far this season. So, we're waiting your highness, show us your players give a damn, can study this Einstein level defense, can lose weight without DRUGS, can show up on Sundays and play NFL football like that are PAID to do. Come ON!

      I dont think coaching has changed.  I agree though he has a lot to prove. Btw, I only mentioned Dungy because of the interesting parallel, I wasnt saying that Lovie has to be the same as Dungy or anything like that. I just recall all the frustration then.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1324

      Garv - do you think those are overnight fixes?

      I think the 2014 Buccaneers should have been better prepared, better coached and have a better record so far. I think we as fans thought the 2014 Bucs would be competitive enough to be in the race for winning a weak NFC South. I think we have better talent than 1-6. I think St. Lovie hired his own GM to spend 55 million in additional talent and that has proven to be a major fail.Overnight fixes? Maybe not, but St. Lovie has certainly not helped this team to get better, only help make it worse with little hope on the horizon. I don't want him evaluating talent OR coaching this team. But he is so we can only hope things get better. I WANT things to get better, to be proven wrong and to be excited about the Buccaneers again. Who among us does not?But it's up to the Buccaneers to earn our respect and hope back, our trust. Starting NOW.....like it should have started on September 7. Just do it damn it.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 357

      It simply makes no sense to me to trade McCoy or David. Both are still APPROACHING their prime, not approaching the beginning of their decline. Poor teams START their ascent by getting players to build around. We already have a young 2 time Pro Bowl DT playing perhaps the most important position in this defense AND a young All-pro playing the 2nd most important position. So you want to trade them? Are you KIDDING me???!!! So we get a 1st round pick for each: what are you going to do with the picks; draft a DT and a Will to lay the two most important positions on this defense? What do you think are the chances that we get EITHER a DT or a Wiil as good as what we already have? Not only that, they would both be inexperienced rookies instead of players with solid experience while still young.IMO, what needs to be done is to continue to build around them. What is the THIRD most important position on this defense? It used to be the SS and I think Barron is going to be a really good one but with the current rules in place the 3rd most important might be a ball-hawking FS or CB. Whichever it is, if that player isn't currently on the roster, go get him.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1858

      It simply makes no sense to me to trade McCoy or David. Both are still APPROACHING their prime, not approaching the beginning of their decline. Poor teams START their ascent by getting players to build around. We already have a young 2 time Pro Bowl DT playing perhaps the most important position in this defense AND a young All-pro playing the 2nd most important position. So you want to trade them? Are you KIDDING me???!!! So we get a 1st round pick for each: what are you going to do with the picks; draft a DT and a Will to lay the two most important positions on this defense? What do you think are the chances that we get EITHER a DT or a Wiil as good as what we already have? Not only that, they would both be inexperienced rookies instead of players with solid experience while still young.IMO, what needs to be done is to continue to build around them. What is the THIRD most important position on this defense? It used to be the SS and I think Barron is going to be a really good one but with the current rules in place the 3rd most important might be a ball-hawking FS or CB. Whichever it is, if that player isn't currently on the roster, go get him.

      Agree except I'd say the 2nd most important position is the DE and we desperately need one (two... three?)

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    • Anonymous

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      James Harrison just helped Andrew Luck up off the ground…Let's Rage.

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    • Anonymous

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      Are they losing 38-0 ?

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    • Anonymous

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      People have been and would be griping about McCoy doing this, regardless of the score.It happens all around the league almost every Sunday.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      People have been and would be griping about McCoy doing this, regardless of the score.It happens all around the league almost every Sunday.

      The score matters to me.If you are kicking people's ass I have no problem picking them up.When you are the one getting your ass kicked all day , you should probably be mad about it and not be in the helping mood. It's called pride.

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