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    • Bucpride5

      Participant
      Post count: 598

      Optimism was abound in 2014 when the Bucs hired Lovie Smith. A proven 8 year head coach with a Super Bowl appearance and a track record of consistently good defenses. Sadly that optimism quickly faded, and 2-14 was his record as a first year coach. One of the most disappointing things about 2014 was how badly coached this team was. Especially from a experienced Head Coach in the NFL. I heard from analyst that included former Lovie players that “It takes time” but does it really take time? In 2014 Bill O'Brien who has never been a Head Coach in the NFL lead a team who was the worst in the NFL in 2013 to a 9-7 record and almost made the playoffs. Mike Zimmer, a long time NFL assistant who has never been a NFL head coach lead his team with a rookie QB and missing his best player for 15 games to a 7-9 record. Mike Pettine, who has never been a Head Coach in the NFL lead his team to a 7-9 record as a first year coach as well. Showing how well first year coaches did against a season 8 year pro coach with experience just shows how badly this team was coached in 2014. I know Lovie had some unique hurdles to overcome in 2014, and I for one don't believe he tanked the season to draft Winston. But if first year coaches can get better results than Lovie, we are in trouble as a fanbase and franchise. So how are you as a fan judging Lovie this season? He has no excuses when it comes to Offensive coordinator, he's the new defensive play caller and he has full control over the roster.I'll be judging Lovie against first year coaches in ATL, and NY. If he can't get more wins than either of those coaches he's gotta go. When you see other franchises turn aroun their teams so quickly and get instant success from rookies how you justify to bring back a coach that is not getting the results?

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      2016, can’t be worse than Lovie’s first year, right…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      .500 in his second season in general imo.  I don’t see us hitting that, but I think is a fair expectation.  We hired a veteran HC who was a long time HC in this league.  Someone we should have expected to hit the ground running.  Something like 6-10 could be acceptable if we are showing overall growth/improvement.More specifically, I will judge Lovie based on the play of our defense.  We have an experienced defense, and our depth is experienced.  We brought in free agents for his scheme specifically.  Not a bunch of new faces should lead to a greater understanding of the defense by the players in the second season.  I expect to be right around a top half defense.I also want to see great improvement in our in game time management.  No more free passes for staff upheaval.  I do not expect to see us still sitting on time outs down before halftime.  Or letting time slip away from late drives by not calling time out, or calling it too late.  We can not lose on simple coaching decisions. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 253

      If he’s not bringing wins on the field at least be entertaining at the press conference.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      He’ll go 6-10 and he’ll be on a major hot seat next season.  He’ll need to make the playoffs next year or he’s toast and rightly so.If he doesn't make the playoffs this year(5% chance) or next year with his vision clearly in place by year 3...that will be what 1 playoff trip in TEN freaking seasons.  Then can we all agree the game has passed him by and fire the Glazers(and put Lovie out to pasture - he won't get another shot after here).I don't expect much this year but next year is it...playoffs or pink slip.  He should have a better coached team - O line - special teams is a joke for the second year now.  It is entirely possible that Lovie was a very bad hire.  In fact, it looks that way so far.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 894

      One word….Competetiveness. Do the Bucs COMPETE, every play, every down, every series, every game at every position. Since we have not been a good team since 2002, I really could care less about W’s & L’s this year. If the Bucs can compete, some wins will follow this year. Next year, with another productive draft and some more FA depth acquisitions, as well as everyone knowing the offensive and defensive schemes, 8-8 to me seems attainable. 2017 should then be the playoff year, all holes plugged, depth at every positions and playoffs with a reasonable chance for an invite to the Big Dance. Then we should be set for a decade of Buc teams in the playoff and Super Bowl hunt.

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    • wesleyc

      Member
      Post count: 315

      6-10 is the mark for me. Below that then we have to look into whether the team improved throughout the year or not, above that and I’m pretty happy with the performance and can go into next season with some confidence. I’m somewhat inclined to give Lovie another year regardless since he has a rookie QB and is only in his second year though.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2275

      IF we go 2-14 against or anything worse. He should be fired. Schiano was better than this dumpster fire.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 253

      IF we go 2-14 against or anything worse. He should be fired. Schiano was better than this dumpster fire.

      Oh man....  how do you get the next guy that even has a chance after burning through so many coaches in such a short order? Look 2 wins, pretty sure only one time have the bucs had less, but after the win/loss point diff is a good stat. Point diff wasn't as bad as you might expect and the last game was a give away so... let's just figure even a touch better and the bounces go well six wins and moving forward 'cause having to hire another HC at the end of the season... ouch.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      6-10. Lovie’s Buccaneers have to win at least 6 games and show the team has completely bought in to his leadership. It’s fair, it’s doable and if it does not happen he has to go. Especially after 2-14 and 0-8 last season.I'll add that given this approach, the first home game against the Titans is a game the Buccaneers MUST win. It's certainly winnable given the Titans are not all that AND are also starting a rookie QB. The Buccaneers MUST be prepared, something they were not all last season, and they have GOT to give the home crowd something to cheer about. I'm pretty sure that given dwindling crowds the Glazers would agree.So yeah, 6 or more wins including at least a couple at home and Lovie gets one more year to turn in a winning record and a chance to play meaningful (playoff entry) games in November and December.Anything less? SEE YA!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5572

      6 wins is my expectation this year, barring a rash of huge injuries.I think next year is the year we push for the playoffs.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      He should be fired. We need a new HC, now. Trade the QB. Fire the OC…. I love pushing this shiny reset button.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      IF we go 2-14 against or anything worse. He should be fired. Schiano was better than this dumpster fire.

      Oh man....  how do you get the next guy that even has a chance after burning through so many coaches in such a short order? Look 2 wins, pretty sure only one time have the bucs had less, but after the win/loss point diff is a good stat. Point diff wasn't as bad as you might expect and the last game was a give away so... let's just figure even a touch better and the bounces go well six wins and moving forward 'cause having to hire another HC at the end of the season... ouch.

      You would keep a coach, because you HAD to keep him?You would allow the continuation of suck, just because the other coaches sucked before him?You would WANT to keep a headcoach who puts up four wins out of thirty two games?Sorry, i cannot agree with this, at all. He was a vet hc with playoff experiance... He should ACT like it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1198

      IF we go 2-14 against or anything worse. He should be fired. Schiano was better than this dumpster fire.

      Oh man....  how do you get the next guy that even has a chance after burning through so many coaches in such a short order? Look 2 wins, pretty sure only one time have the bucs had less, but after the win/loss point diff is a good stat. Point diff wasn't as bad as you might expect and the last game was a give away so... let's just figure even a touch better and the bounces go well six wins and moving forward 'cause having to hire another HC at the end of the season... ouch.

      I don't get behind the theory of giving a coach "time"First year and new head coaches with no head coaching experience pile up more wins and field much more competitive team than Lovie did in year 1. If the Bucs look direction less and with no identity in 2015, while first time coaches in ATL, NY and San Fran win games you have no choice but to seriously consider firing him. If a defensive specialist can't even make his defense competitive what is he good for?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 253

      You would keep a coach, because you HAD to keep him?You would allow the continuation of suck, just because the other coaches sucked before him?You would WANT to keep a headcoach who puts up four wins out of thirty two games?Sorry, i cannot agree with this, at all. He was a vet hc with playoff experiance... He should ACT like it.

      No, I didn't say that.Nope didn't say that either. Or that. What I said was, hey you are what you record says you are but maybe it's not so bad as that because point diff so I'm hopeful we won't see another 2 win season. Oh boy, that would really suck, because giving them the quick hook will make finding the next guy all the more difficult.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1198

      You would keep a coach, because you HAD to keep him?You would allow the continuation of suck, just because the other coaches sucked before him?You would WANT to keep a headcoach who puts up four wins out of thirty two games?Sorry, i cannot agree with this, at all. He was a vet hc with playoff experiance... He should ACT like it.

      No, I didn't say that.Nope didn't say that either. Or that. What I said was, hey you are what you record says you are but maybe it's not so bad as that because point diff so I'm hopeful we won't see another 2 win season. Oh boy, that would really suck, because giving them the quick hook will make finding the next guy all the more difficult.

      Or say to the next guy, losing is not accepted

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1571

      Lovie inherited a 4-12 team and made them worse.  This is his 2nd season and as such has had 2 years to bring in players for *his* defense, has a high quality OC to go with his mostly hand picked staff, all the players from his first draft going into their 2nd year, and the QB he and Licht went gaga over.8-8 at the very least to keep his job.  7-9 with 3 losses in overtime and don't even stop by to shake hands.  Just get your stuff and leave.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1784

      I think it’s fair to say he ought to be able to have the defence playing really well since it’s year two there. If that busts you can pretty much kiss a decent season goodbye. Let’s face it the offense won’t carry this team. They will take a while to get going. Not only does it take a while because we have a rookie qb and a new offense but also a few rookie oline guys who are going to have to learn the speed of the nfl and jell. So i can't judge Lovie on the offense. The defense needs to take a nice step forward. They might not get a ton of sacks but I expect our pass d to be better. Our run D to be better. Of course I expect the pass rush to be better but I don't think it's going to be a whole lot better than last year. Why? Because there's no new guys at that position that screams massive improvement. Which sucks yes but is just the reality of the situation. So i think if the defence is playing well and the offense can get ahead of schedule then it's not crazy to think that they can go .500 on the season. But I'm thinking it will be more of a 6-10 type season. Not much better and not much worse. If better great. Lovie overachieved. If less.. then Lovie is not looking good. Probably would be fired and rightfully so. They had a few close games last year and lost them. It would be good to see them win some of them for a change.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Win at least half of the home games.  Do that and this team is actually heading somewhere instead of spinning their wheels.  6-10 is realistic based on the talent on this squad..500 ball is too difficult with how many new rookie starters the Bucs will have.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Even if the Bucs win 1 more game than last season, Lovie will still be here through the 2016 season. We’re stuck with this guy for at least a few more years.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      Win at least half of the home games.  Do that and this team is actually heading somewhere instead of spinning their wheels.  6-10 is realistic based on the talent on this squad..500 ball is too difficult with how many new rookie starters the Bucs will have.

      Sounds good to me. With one caveat. There's even hope for a little better. It's even possible to get to 8-8, 9-7. The bounce of the ball and some key plays at the right time, you never know. But yes, 6-10 is realistic and certainly acceptable. Another offseason, another good draft with the rookies this season including our QB getting much needed experience and 9-7 in 2016 should be realistic.5-11 borderline, 4 or less wins THIS season? NOT acceptable and Lovie should be gone if that happens IMO.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 943

      I am glad someone is asking this question.I disagree with you initial statement about the reaction after the hiring. I know that myself and many others here were NOT happy with the Lovie Smith hiring. I stated numerous times that the Tampa 2 defense is archaic and not relevant other than for situational use in todays NFL. I did like that they hired someone with experience, just thought there were a lot of others out there..Anyway, I don't think Lovie should get a pass here. 2-14 is unacceptable by any standard. I want to see at least 6 wins. This offensive line mess falls squarely on his shoulders. The McCown fiasco as well. The personnel moves are just head scratchers in general...pretty much all of them. Any casual fan can watch a bears player hit the waiver wire and take it to the bank Lovie will be trying to sign him. I just don't think the guy is good enough to have as much control as he does, and we are unsure of exactly how much of a role Licht plays. To be frank with you, I think he will get a pass by management for any improvement over last year unfortunately. The problem with this organization starts at the top. I am not hating on the Glazers, or calling them cheap, or saying they care more about Man U, I just think that they don't know what they are doing...I sincerely mean that...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1828

      he could repeat 2-14 and he’s not going anywhere, accept it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5572

      he could repeat 2-14 and he's not going anywhere, accept it.

      Agreed.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      he could repeat 2-14 and he's not going anywhere, accept it.

      Agreed.

      I do not agree. The Glazers DO care about selling tickets and selling a 4-28 HC to the fans as a way to "stay the course" is impossible. 2-14 surely won't happen again anyway. What a nightmare! LOL

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1550

      he could repeat 2-14 and he's not going anywhere, accept it.

      No coach survives consecutive 2-14 seasons. Accept that. The Glazers have said they expect to see progress. Progress could be 6-10, which is as many wins as we've had the last two seasons combined and 3 times the wins we had in 2014.I think the team needs to be better at the end of the season that it is at the beginning. Jameis needs to start playing better, the young o-line needs to start to jell and the defense needs to continue to get better.I think the inclination is to keep lovie and the staff together, you don't want Jameis to have to learn a new offense every year. Look what it did to Freeman and Glennon.But lose 12 or more games and the Glazers may indeed start looking for that shiny reset button again.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      Bottom line is wins.More specifically I want to see a team with the ability to adapt.I want to be competitive in every game - and that is on Coach Smith.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1198

      he could repeat 2-14 and he's not going anywhere, accept it.

      Unacceptable, NO coach could survive back to back 2 win seasons.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      I already judged him.  I’d fire him now.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1198

      I am glad someone is asking this question.I disagree with you initial statement about the reaction after the hiring. I know that myself and many others here were NOT happy with the Lovie Smith hiring. I stated numerous times that the Tampa 2 defense is archaic and not relevant other than for situational use in todays NFL. I did like that they hired someone with experience, just thought there were a lot of others out there..Anyway, I don't think Lovie should get a pass here. 2-14 is unacceptable by any standard. I want to see at least 6 wins. This offensive line mess falls squarely on his shoulders. The McCown fiasco as well. The personnel moves are just head scratchers in general...pretty much all of them. Any casual fan can watch a bears player hit the waiver wire and take it to the bank Lovie will be trying to sign him. I just don't think the guy is good enough to have as much control as he does, and we are unsure of exactly how much of a role Licht plays. To be frank with you, I think he will get a pass by management for any improvement over last year unfortunately. The problem with this organization starts at the top. I am not hating on the Glazers, or calling them cheap, or saying they care more about Man U, I just think that they don't know what they are doing...I sincerely mean that...

      I wasn't a fan of the hire either, as I don't think he's a very good in game coach. He doesn't adjust his system to fit his players and is not a good personnel man. The Glazers should've hired a GM or team VP first then let them hire a coach as they suck at hiring coaches. I wanted Bruce Arians when they hired Schiano, and wanted Mike Zimmer when they hired Lovie. The fans could hire better coaches than the Glazer Bros.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1845

      If I was the Glazer’s, I’d be judging Lovie Smith by why he’s still sitting on his couch 2 years in a row, coming on his 3rd year of not being an NFL coach, and I’d be happy that I made the decision to hire Zimmer, or maybe upset that I hired Jay Gruden.  But then again, I wouldn’t have Gruden ticking me off because he doesn’t want to start my shiny RGMe that I’m paying too much money to to be a backup, because we’re the Bucs not Redskins.But then again, if I was the Glazer's you'd all hate me, because I'd probably never have fired Jon Gruden. I'd have a legit knowledge of why we didn't draft Aaron Rodgers or AP (in hindsight, I would like to think I would have drafted both players). Yes I know that I'd have a lot of heat for the child abuse allegations and having AP on the team. (I'd probably also be in cap hell for paying Rodgers and AP)

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      must win 8 games or he and jase are fired.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 861

      Why is Warhop still here? Lovie picked him and Lovie should have gotten rid of him after last season's OL disaster.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Why is Warhop still here? Lovie picked him and Lovie should have gotten rid of him after last season's OL disaster.

      Yup

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Why is Warhop still here? Lovie picked him and Lovie should have gotten rid of him after last season's OL disaster.

      what do you think is warhops biggest issue?  is it his knowledge?  is it him being able to relay the knowledge?  is he coaching poor fundamentals?  are the blocking schemes warhops or koetters?or last season, was the OL a warhop issue?  a talent issue?  a QB issue?  an OC issue?  a scheme issue?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 391

      Let’s be real. The majority of people are going to judge him off the next game. If not the next half.This is the red board.

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      As others have touched on.  Warhop may cost Lovie his job.  It’s amazing how difficult it is to find good OL play in the pros.  Warhop is a Lovie crony and a liability.  Bring back Bill Muir.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1455

      I’m not judging him, I just want him gone ASAP.He never should have been hired, he was fired with good reason is Chicago and learnt nothing in the year he couldn't find a job (sorry he "took the year off"). If anything the game just passed him by even more during that time.Awful hire, awful results and the weaknesses that were holding this team back when he was hired are still weaknesses now, they might even be worse than when he came in.

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    • johnd

      Participant
      Post count: 333

      5 wins or less and both Lovie and Licht should be fired.  Any team in this league can go out and win that amount of games.  If the Bucs aren’t getting much better by year two then they obviously hired the wrong guys.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 173

      Harshly. I’m not sure how you take a Greg Schano/Mark Dominik squad and make them not only worse, but downright unwatchable, but he managed to do it. Don’t even get me started on the D. He’s calling all the shots there now, so the results there are 100% on his head; Leslie can’t be his fall guy. Simple as that, as Lovie is overly fond of saying.He's got to get to at least 7 for me to even consider changing my handle.

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    • johnd

      Participant
      Post count: 333

      year 1 of Lovie Smith was full of fail.  another year of fail should be unacceptable.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      If he can’t moonwalk on hot coals, he’s fired.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 173

      I don’t think many of us are asking him to moonwalk. Getting up off his @$$ and taking that first meaningful step would be a good start though. As has been mentioned, guys with no experience running NFL squads fared far better than our “experienced” and “well respected” veteran head coach. 

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    • rmslpn

      Participant
      Post count: 1384

      unless Bucs completely wet the bed again, I am giving Lovie a 3rd year, enough with the new coaches every two years

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 173

      unless Bucs completely wet the bed again, I am giving Lovie a 3rd year, enough with the new coaches every two years

      How about enough with accepting mediocrity? We all acknowledge he has roster deficiencies. This just in: so does every other head coach on every other team. The difference is, the good ones know how to play to their strengths and hide their weaknesses, or at least have some pretense of trying. I saw absolutely none of that last season, and as a fan, I won't tolerate the same approach this year. Lovie's coaching cost the team wins last year, about that there can be no doubt.

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    • rmslpn

      Participant
      Post count: 1384

      unless Bucs completely wet the bed again, I am giving Lovie a 3rd year, enough with the new coaches every two years

      How about enough with accepting mediocrity? We all acknowledge he has roster deficiencies. This just in: so does every other head coach on every other team. The difference is, the good ones know how to play to their strengths and hide their weaknesses, or at least have some pretense of trying. I saw absolutely none of that last season, and as a fan, I won't tolerate the same approach this year. Lovie's coaching cost the team wins last year, about that there can be no doubt.

      he implemented a new scheme, he had his offensive coordinator end up not coaching one playand on top of that he inherited a roster that would have trouble playing in the SECif it pains you so much to wait more then 32 games , cheer  for another team

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 173

      Ah yes the argument of last resort, “If you don’t like it go root for someone else.” I won’t even touch the logical fallacy of that one.Again, I'm not discounting the factors which made last season difficult:He still took a Schiano/Dominik squad, turned it over, and ended up with worse results. That's on him. He implemented a new defensive scheme - and made absolutely no effort whatsoever to work with the chicken $h*t he had. That's on him.He blew up his offensive line, and ended up throwing away at least one serviceable player (Zuttah) whose presence is still missed. Who would you rather have on the roster today - E(D)S or Zuttah?He lost his OC, something I was reasonable about. He has no control over Tedford's health. What he did not do was hire any of the myriad offensive specialists still available to help pick up the slack. He left an underprepared, unqualified, rookie OC to his own devices and I need not re-hash the results. That, again, is on him. Are you sensing a theme here?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      How about enough with accepting mediocrity? We all acknowledge he has roster deficiencies. This just in: so does every other head coach on every other team. The difference is, the good ones know how to play to their strengths and hide their weaknesses, or at least have some pretense of trying. I saw absolutely none of that last season, and as a fan, I won't tolerate the same approach this year. Lovie's coaching cost the team wins last year, about that there can be no doubt.

      who is accepting mediocrity?  we replaced DE, MLB, both safeties and addressed depth.  we replaced OC, (and DC for that matter), QB, and most of our OL.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      He implemented a new defensive scheme - and made absolutely no effort whatsoever to work with the chicken $h*t he had. That's on him.He blew up his offensive line, and ended up throwing away at least one serviceable player (Zuttah) whose presence is still missed. Who would you rather have on the roster today - E(D)S or Zuttah?

      he absolutely made an effort to work with foster, barron, and goldson.  i honestly see no difference in zuttah and EDS.  one guy looked better last season in a ZBS with a superbowl QB, a OC and 4 all pro OL around him though, definitely admit that.  had zuttah been playing next to a gimpy mankins and gilkey, snapping mccown and having plays called by arroyo?  id bet my house no one would be singing his praises.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 173

      He implemented a new defensive scheme - and made absolutely no effort whatsoever to work with the chicken $h*t he had. That's on him.He blew up his offensive line, and ended up throwing away at least one serviceable player (Zuttah) whose presence is still missed. Who would you rather have on the roster today - E(D)S or Zuttah?

      he absolutely made an effort to work with foster, barron, and goldson.  i honestly see no difference in zuttah and EDS.  one guy looked better last season in a ZBS with a superbowl QB, a OC and 4 all pro OL around him though, definitely admit that.  had zuttah been playing next to a gimpy mankins and gilkey, snapping mccown and having plays called by arroyo?  id bet my house no one would be singing his praises.

      We'll have to agree to disagree about his use of his personnel. He forced his Cover 2 scheme on a group of guys who it was obvious weren't great fits. Ok, some of that is the players, but again, you have to work with what you have. That's what good coaches do. As for Zuttah maybe the difference is marginal, but his versatility gives him and edge over EDS in my humble opinion, and also the fact that he can consistently snap the **** ball. He was best at center, but he provided depth at pretty much every interior position, as well as an emergency option at tackle. Remember, this guy learned how to play tackle as a rookie in Jon Grudens offense for cryin out loud.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 861

      Ah yes the argument of last resort, "If you don't like it go root for someone else." I won't even touch the logical fallacy of that one.Again, I'm not discounting the factors which made last season difficult:He still took a Schiano/Dominik squad, turned it over, and ended up with worse results. That's on him. AGREEHe implemented a new defensive scheme - and made absolutely no effort whatsoever to work with the chicken $h*t he had. That's on him.AGREEHe blew up his offensive line, and ended up throwing away at least one serviceable player (Zuttah) whose presence is still missed. Who would you rather have on the roster today - E(D)S or Zuttah?E(D)S HAS BEEN A DETRIMENT EVER SINCE HE GOT HERE. WE ARE STILL PAYING FOR THAT MISTAKE. HE KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT OFFENSE SO WHY WAS HE MESSIN WITH IIT?He lost his OC, something I was reasonable about. He has no control over Tedford's health.READ LATEST FAB5 AND SR IS INDICATING TEDFORD PROBABLY COULDN"T HAVE DONE THE JOB ANYWAY. THAT CRUTCH IS NOW GONE. SOME IMPLIED THIS WHEN TEDFORD WAS HIRED. What he did not do was hire any of the myriad offensive specialists still available to help pick up the slack. He left an unde rprepared, unqualified, rookie OC to his own devices and I need not re-hash the results. That, again, is on him. Are you sensing a theme here?

      YOU FORGOT TO MENTION THAT SCHWARTZ WAS HIRED AS DC AND NOW APPARENTLY LOVIE IS GOING TO DO PART OF THAT JOB ALSO.MIGHT I ASK  OTHER NEW HEAD COACH"S HAD A BEETER RECORD THAN HIM AND HIS WAS WORSE THAN HIS PREDECESSOR'S.ARE THERE ANY POSITIVES FOR HIM STILL BEING HERE???

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      Harshly, I would expect…

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 173

      Ah yes the argument of last resort, "If you don't like it go root for someone else." I won't even touch the logical fallacy of that one.Again, I'm not discounting the factors which made last season difficult:He still took a Schiano/Dominik squad, turned it over, and ended up with worse results. That's on him. AGREEHe implemented a new defensive scheme - and made absolutely no effort whatsoever to work with the chicken $h*t he had. That's on him.AGREEHe blew up his offensive line, and ended up throwing away at least one serviceable player (Zuttah) whose presence is still missed. Who would you rather have on the roster today - E(D)S or Zuttah?E(D)S HAS BEEN A DETRIMENT EVER SINCE HE GOT HERE. WE ARE STILL PAYING FOR THAT MISTAKE. HE KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT OFFENSE SO WHY WAS HE MESSIN WITH IIT?He lost his OC, something I was reasonable about. He has no control over Tedford's health.READ LATEST FAB5 AND SR IS INDICATING TEDFORD PROBABLY COULDN"T HAVE DONE THE JOB ANYWAY. THAT CRUTCH IS NOW GONE. SOME IMPLIED THIS WHEN TEDFORD WAS HIRED. What he did not do was hire any of the myriad offensive specialists still available to help pick up the slack. He left an unde rprepared, unqualified, rookie OC to his own devices and I need not re-hash the results. That, again, is on him. Are you sensing a theme here?

      YOU FORGOT TO MENTION THAT SCHWARTZ WAS HIRED AS DC AND NOW APPARENTLY LOVIE IS GOING TO DO PART OF THAT JOB ALSO.MIGHT I ASK  OTHER NEW HEAD COACH"S HAD A BEETER RECORD THAN HIM AND HIS WAS WORSE THAN HIS PREDECESSOR'S.ARE THERE ANY POSITIVES FOR HIM STILL BEING HERE???

      Not many that I can think of. The Glazers had the perfect opportunity to cut bait at the end of last season. They could have gone after an offensive specialist and said, "Pick your QB of the future, and aggressively upgrade the o-line." This would have allowed whichever QB that coach/GM combo preferred to have as much continuity as possible. I love the hiring of Koetter, but what's the best case scenario here? This is not a SB team. Let's say Koetter revives the offense and gets solid production out of our rookie QB - he then immediately shoots to the top of many owners HC wish lists, because if you're a team looking to draft a QB high, a QB whisperer is priceless. Koetter leaves town, you've now got to trust Lovie Smith to hire another competent OC, and your young QB is learning a new offense the next year. Back to square one.What's the worse case scenario? The whole season goes t*ts up again and everyone gets fired anyways, and you're still back at square one. Hitting the reset button so soon surely would have scared off some candidates, and likely would have been met with some public skepticism, but having the opportunity to build your own organization from scratch would have likely appealed to a lot of candidates too.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      We'll have to agree to disagree about his use of his personnel. He forced his Cover 2 scheme on a group of guys who it was obvious weren't great fits. Ok, some of that is the players, but again, you have to work with what you have. That's what good coaches do. As for Zuttah maybe the difference is marginal, but his versatility gives him and edge over EDS in my humble opinion, and also the fact that he can consistently snap the **** ball. He was best at center, but he provided depth at pretty much every interior position, as well as an emergency option at tackle. Remember, this guy learned how to play tackle as a rookie in Jon Grudens offense for cryin out loud.

      good coaches usually look good when they have good players.  there arent many great coaches.  guys like goldson, barron, foster arent gonna stick around in todays NFL very long – so why devise a defense to their strengths?  how do you fit a defense around 3 guys that arent great at coverage?  lovie is here longterm, those guys were short term.  tweak sure.  but i dont think there is a defense today that would have worked great.i just dont see the big deal  about the zuttah/EDS thing if its marginal.  versatility is great, but i dont see how it is important for your starting C.  i would think he would be the last guy you would ever want to move around the line.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      Hitting the reset button so soon surely would have scared off some candidates, and likely would have been met with some public skepticism, but having the opportunity to build your own organization from scratch would have likely appealed to a lot of candidates too.

      this is the biggest bs ive heard in a while.  its win now here.  you guys are complaining that LiLo are trying to build from scratch rather than devise schemes for current personnel!  you guys are complaining that LiLo attempted to build from scratch and jettisoned average players!  how do you build from scratch when you are expected to win now?  or do you mean build a masterpiece in a day?

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      YOU FORGOT TO MENTION THAT SCHWARTZ WAS HIRED AS DC AND NOW APPARENTLY LOVIE IS GOING TO DO PART OF THAT JOB ALSO.

      i thought schwartz was one of the better hires.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 173

      We'll have to agree to disagree about his use of his personnel. He forced his Cover 2 scheme on a group of guys who it was obvious weren't great fits. Ok, some of that is the players, but again, you have to work with what you have. That's what good coaches do. As for Zuttah maybe the difference is marginal, but his versatility gives him and edge over EDS in my humble opinion, and also the fact that he can consistently snap the **** ball. He was best at center, but he provided depth at pretty much every interior position, as well as an emergency option at tackle. Remember, this guy learned how to play tackle as a rookie in Jon Grudens offense for cryin out loud.

      good coaches usually look good when they have good players.  there arent many great coaches.  guys like goldson, barron, foster arent gonna stick around in todays NFL very long - so why devise a defense to their strengths?  how do you fit a defense around 3 guys that arent great at coverage?  lovie is here longterm, those guys were short term.  tweak sure.  but i dont think there is a defense today that would have worked great.i just dont see the big deal  about the zuttah/EDS thing if its marginal.  versatility is great, but i dont see how it is important for your starting C.  i would think he would be the last guy you would ever want to move around the line.

      Why devise to their strengths? Seriously? Because that's his friggin' job! He was mid-stream, his roster was set, and he stubbornly refused to tailor a scheme to his personnel in order to put his players in the best position to go win a game. Fitting a square peg in a round hole is the definition of incompetent coaching. Maybe the consolation prize was worth it, but I'm sorry, you're not much of a "defensive guru" if Greg Schiano comes up with better results from a nearly identical group. Those guys were here short term, but they were here none the less, so why not try to squeeze as much production as you can out of them instead of continuing to use them in ways that ultimately hurt the team? I'm not saying it would have immediately made them All-Pro's - it might not have made a damn but of difference at all in the final tally. However, Lovie's job as head coach to work with what he has and put his players in the best position to compete and get a win. The fact that he stubbornly insisted on scheme over personnel is deeply concerning to me.As for the versatility, it's absolutely an asset. First of all it's an indicator of how football savvy a player is, you can never have enough guys like that IMO. I'm not saying it's something you hope you have to use, but that doesn't mean it won't come in handy at some point. Look at us now - we've got two serviceable guards on the roster, which I'll admit is an improvement over last season. Who fills in if one of them goes down though?

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2847

        No mercy.  Last season's debacle, IMO, went well beyond Tedford's inability to work. THERE WAS NO-ONE with NFL EXPERIENCE to act as his backup in the event he couldn't participate in the week-to-week team activities. That was utterly incompetent on Lovie's part. And Lovie/Licht refused to hire anyone with experience who COULD do the job. THAT kinda pi..ed me off... :o >:(

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Why devise to their strengths? Seriously? Because that's his friggin' job! He was mid-stream, his roster was set, and he stubbornly refused to tailor a scheme to his personnel in order to put his players in the best position to go win a game. Fitting a square peg in a round hole is the definition of incompetent coaching. Maybe the consolation prize was worth it, but I'm sorry, you're not much of a "defensive guru" if Greg Schiano comes up with better results from a nearly identical group. Those guys were here short term, but they were here none the less, so why not try to squeeze as much production as you can out of them instead of continuing to use them in ways that ultimately hurt the team? I'm not saying it would have immediately made them All-Pro's - it might not have made a damn but of difference at all in the final tally. However, Lovie's job as head coach to work with what he has and put his players in the best position to compete and get a win. The fact that he stubbornly insisted on scheme over personnel is deeply concerning to me.As for the versatility, it's absolutely an asset. First of all it's an indicator of how football savvy a player is, you can never have enough guys like that IMO. I'm not saying it's something you hope you have to use, but that doesn't mean it won't come in handy at some point. Look at us now - we've got two serviceable guards on the roster, which I'll admit is an improvement over last season. Who fills in if one of them goes down though?

      changing a defensive scheme for a couple of average players isnt going to be beneficial in the longrun imo.  Lovie has a defense he believes in.  using a defense he doesnt believe in isnt a longterm fix.  yes, a coach should definitely put his players in a position to succeed.  but then do we completely revamp the defense every year depending on the players acquired?  Lovie has a longterm plan – installilng a defense that he doesnt believe in because short term players are here isnt a solid fix.  its a bandaid.  a bandaid that isnt going to improve the team longterm.  if the glazers wanted a defense built around foster and barron they would have kept schiano.  they wanted a defense built around Lovie.  as a fan you might as well get on board.  complaining about average players is asinine to me.versatilty is certainly an asset, but not in this one scenario imo.  you arent going to move your starting C to guard or T due to injuries.  you are gonna replace those injuries with backups or guys from the PS.    that versatility is much more important for your backups.  it appears that masafilo or warren are the guys that will fill in if there is an injury.  had we kept zuttah, i dont believe we would move him over to G and put in a new C either.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8983

        No mercy.  Last season's debacle, IMO, went well beyond Tedford's inability to work. THERE WAS NO-ONE with NFL EXPERIENCE to act as his backup in the event he couldn't participate in the week-to-week team activities. That was utterly incompetent on Lovie's part. And Lovie/Licht refused to hire anyone with experience who COULD do the job. THAT kinda pi..ed me off... :o >:(

      Same here. F excuses.1. He fudged up the revis deal, then compounded it by making all the choices in he made with that money.2. Two wins, or three wins, is enough to "save" a coach? Absolutely bs, and those who spew such nonsense should know it.3. As you said, they went full-retard, and never tried to replace tedford. Why? Too much work? All they needed was a yes-man anyway? By now, we could have some establishment, but he didnt do a damn thing.4. He says he changed in his time off. What exactly did he change? Thats some more ol bullsh1t.5. That guy actually thought of mccown as something that would be good. He was waaay off. So off in fact, that he went into the spectrum of suck so much, it did end up being a positive. This shouldn't make you worry about any qb choices they make or anything...Lovie was brought in to bring a touch of vet hc experiance. If that doesn't happen, if he doesn't look like a vet hc, then wtf is the point with wasting everyone's time? Move the f on!We would fire gruden for a 9 win season, the bears would fire lovie after a nine win season, but tampa wont fire lovie after two two win seasons?? Im not buying that one bit. He deserves to be fired, should he not make 6 to 8 wins.F$$k, at least get to .500 once in awhile.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3316

      What has Lovie shown anyone that’s he is relevant in today’s NFL?Anyone?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      What has Lovie shown anyone that's he is relevant in today's NFL?Anyone?

      Can you ask an easier question please?Seriously though, he has shown you can use a fa qb to tank for a real one? That's kinda innovative, if the colts hadn't already done that.Um, ...hes shown that you can use the waiver wire to trade for kickers? Bindza, or whatever, has been badass after all.That you could, in fact, kick koenen off a team..Hmm.. maybe overload on linebackers? Lol.All out, thats all i got. You asked.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      What has Lovie shown anyone that's he is relevant in today's NFL?Anyone?

      relevant?  he got himself hired.  that seems pretty relevant.what has he shown anyone that hes not relevant?  he installed a defensed and with 6 weeks got it running at a top 10 pace.  some folks simply dont like the guy, thats the main problem.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4274

      Lovie has the right idea on defense.  Speed.The rule changes have taken out the heavy hitters on the backend of defenses.  You need guys that can fly to the ball.  Even the 3-4 defenses that are popular again utilize speedy LB's.  You are not going to see two gap 3-4 defenses or large defensive players as LEOs.  You see more undersized guys as LEO's which are more like Jokers but used more aggresively up front instead of being asked to cover as well.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 861

      What has Lovie shown anyone that's he is relevant in today's NFL?Anyone?

      relevant?  he got himself hired.  that seems pretty relevant.what has he shown anyone that hes not relevant?  he installed a defensed and with 6 weeks got it running at a top 10 pace.  some folks simply dont like the guy, thats the main problem.

      What relevance is there with any 2 win coach who made the team worse than the year before?Some of your defensive commente about  Lovie, remind me me of Don Quixote. No matter what, you will defend him. There is a lot less to be happy about him now, than there was this time last year.Last year he was talking playoffs.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      What relevance is there with any 2 win coach who made the team worse than the year before?Some of your defensive commente about  Lovie, remind me me of Don Quixote. No matter what, you will defend him. There is a lot less to be happy about him now, than there was this time last year.Last year he was talking playoffs.

      i think you are using “relevance” incorrectly.  Lovie is relevant to the NFL because the Glazers hired him.  semantics sure, but pick a different word.Lovie wasnt hired to win the SuperBowl his first year.  he was hired to turn the organization into a winner.  its happened overnight before, not often though.  lets not act like we were a playoff team and he crashed us.  our fans think that because raheem morris wasnt a winner at HC that Lovie should be able to snap his fingers and win a ring.  sure, you got me.  i defend the Bucs.  especially when im not privy to information.  some fans assume the worst.  some fans never liked Lovie from day 1 so they are gonna ride him.  Im not.  some fans look at the little picture, want immediate results.  some fans are mature enough to look at the big picture.  mistakes were made last season, im not denying that.  but those mistakes have been amended - lets see this season if they were corrected.i think there is a lot more happy to be with Lovie this year than last year.  last year LiLo brought us mccown, this year winston.  last year Lilo brought us tedford/arroyo, this year koetter.  last year frazier was calling plays, this year Lovie.  last year we had a bunch of bad fits on defense, this year we appear to have much better fits.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4274

      Lovie and Licth made the fatal mistake that Bruce Allen made with the quick fix.  Imagine how much better this team would be if they started rebuilding this team last year and Bridgewater had a year under his belt as a Bucs starting QB heading into year 2.That is why the Vikings are well ahead of the Bucs. Lets hope the Bucs are patient this season and let Winston develop along with the other rookies.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1845

      How about enough with accepting mediocrity? We all acknowledge he has roster deficiencies. This just in: so does every other head coach on every other team. The difference is, the good ones know how to play to their strengths and hide their weaknesses, or at least have some pretense of trying. I saw absolutely none of that last season, and as a fan, I won't tolerate the same approach this year. Lovie's coaching cost the team wins last year, about that there can be no doubt.

      who is accepting mediocrity?  we replaced DE, MLB, both safeties and addressed depth.  we replaced OC, (and DC for that matter), QB, and most of our OL.

      Didn't MC imply that Smith took over play calling after the Atlanta game last year? I agree they attempted to fix holes (most were caused by Lovies own mistakes), I'm interested in seeing if they corrected their mistakes from last year, I'm doubtful, but I'm biased because I think Lovie sucks as a coach.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1324

      I too thought Lovie was awful last year. He gave us false hope, was a disaster in FA and was stubborn enough to inisist Josh McCown was the answer at QB until the bitter end. I don’t like his condescending tone either, especially when legitimate questions are asked.But it's a new year and IMO the team has improved in many areas, improved enough to expect at least 6 wins. Lovie gets that and the team looks to be improving throughout and he stays and should stay.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2697

      He'll go 6-10 and he'll be on a major hot seat next season.  He'll need to make the playoffs next year or he's toast and rightly so.

      He can 6-10 and won't be on the hot seat....The Glazers aren't going to be on the hook paying another fired coach millions a year for +2 years....get real

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      He'll go 6-10 and he'll be on a major hot seat next season.  He'll need to make the playoffs next year or he's toast and rightly so.

      He can 6-10 and won't be on the hot seat....The Glazers aren't going to be on the hook paying another fired coach millions a year for +2 years....get real

      Well I do think that by the end 2016 Lovie will have to have this team above .500 and making a serious push for the playoffs. He cannot survive three straight losing seasons IMO. Nor SHOULD he. Like I typed earlier, 6-10 or better gets hims into 2016 and then we should expect winning seasons.

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    • austin1211

      Participant
      Post count: 25

      by wins and loses

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      He'll go 6-10 and he'll be on a major hot seat next season.  He'll need to make the playoffs next year or he's toast and rightly so.

      He can 6-10 and won't be on the hot seat....The Glazers aren't going to be on the hook paying another fired coach millions a year for +2 years....get real

      Well I do think that by the end 2016 Lovie will have to have this team above .500 and making a serious push for the playoffs. He cannot survive three straight losing seasons IMO. Nor SHOULD he. Like I typed earlier, 6-10 or better gets hims into 2016 and then we should expect winning seasons.

      That's more reasonable...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      What has Lovie shown anyone that's he is relevant in today's NFL?Anyone?

      relevant?  he got himself hired.  that seems pretty relevant.what has he shown anyone that hes not relevant?  he installed a defensed and with 6 weeks got it running at a top 10 pace.  some folks simply dont like the guy, thats the main problem.

      Lol.  2-14 and only ONE playoff appearance in 8 seasons.  How is that relevant? I like to win.  I don't like 2-14 teams.  I don't like dinosaurs.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      He'll go 6-10 and he'll be on a major hot seat next season.  He'll need to make the playoffs next year or he's toast and rightly so.

      He can 6-10 and won't be on the hot seat....The Glazers aren't going to be on the hook paying another fired coach millions a year for +2 years....get real

      BWUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!  So if Lovie goes 6-10 this year and 6-10 next year as well?  Dude is FIRED.  No doubt about it.  That will be all the proof anyone needs to know he's washed up in the NFL.  No way a coach survives 2-14, 6-10, 6-10...no freaking way.  There'd be like ten people at RJS on sundays.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      He'll go 6-10 and he'll be on a major hot seat next season.  He'll need to make the playoffs next year or he's toast and rightly so.

      He can 6-10 and won't be on the hot seat....The Glazers aren't going to be on the hook paying another fired coach millions a year for +2 years....get real

      BWUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!  So if Lovie goes 6-10 this year and 6-10 next year as well?  Dude is FIRED.  No doubt about it.  That will be all the proof anyone needs to know he's washed up in the NFL.  No way a coach survives 2-14, 6-10, 6-10...no freaking way.  There'd be like ten people at RJS on sundays.

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