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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      I feel that LL had a very good draft strategy first and foremost by going all offense. Its what needed to be done to upgrade the dead last ranked offense from last year.The top. Rounds 1 and 2.LL have done everything they could at the top of the draft to help our QB and OC. Tedford is coming into the NFL and has a lot to prove. Mike Evans and ASJ are two players that are extremely hard to cover by anyone on opposing defenses because of their insane cathing radii. Both guys can appear to be covered but then the ball is zipped in there high and tight and the opposing defense can only watch. We dont really need to analyze these picks. These were obviously picks that will turn our anemic offense into a real NFL offense to be reckoned with.The middle.Rounds 3 and 4.Obviously, everyone with a brain is questioning the RB in round 3 Charles Sims. We reached for this guy and ignored OL. It is not insignificant to note that 11 OL were picked in the 3rd round. That must be a record. And the reason why is because the 3rd round is where starting caliber OL were starting to become BPA, the second tier so to speak. With an early pick in the 3rd we were poised to pick up a day one starter at OG. This pick requires a bit of analysis. Choosing RB in the 3rd round meant that without a 4th round pick we would have to wait until the 5th round ... 70 some picks later to address the OL. We have two turnstiles at OG. So what does this tell us about the Bucs RB situation? To me, this indicates that:1) The RB in this offense will need to be a great pass catcher. This is what Sims does best. 2) They are not sold on Doug Martin in this role. Martin was not good at pass catching last year and got injured trying to run a wheel route. A route that he has already proven incapable of running previously. 3) We are going to a spread offense. This is now beyond a doubt for me now. Without a great pass catching RB this offense would struggle. 4) Licht had a couple late round OG's in mind who he feels can contribute? I say this with a big question mark because this is not easy to pull off.5) Sims may get a significant amount of reps. If you are running a spread offense, the RB has to be able to pass pro and catch the ball out of the backfield as well as split out wide ... all things that Doug Martin struggles with. The end. Rounds 5-7. Kadeem Edwards, Kevin Pamphile and Robert Herron. This is a strange draft because usually you arent counting on anything out of your late rounders. But we waited until the end to draft arguably our greatest need. OL. Analysis: In order to justify the early pick of the RB, we need one of the OL we chose to pan out. Otherwise, it was not really a very good strategy. If our QB has no time to throw the ball, our interior OL crumbles to a tough DL then how is the offense going to work? Did we just spend 3 premium picks on skill position offensive players who may not have the time to execute the offense? Im trying to be as optimistic as possible but this is a question that needs to be asked.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2847

          Good observations.     That 3rd round had to be a tough call; Licht briefly said in his PC he saw Sims still on the board at our pick, and felt like he was too good to pass up. IOW, we were still in BAP mode, and he stuck to it despite our perceived needs at G. I'll roll with it for now; we might still nab a vet FA this summer if our 5th rounders don't come along quickly.     I have to figure the medical reports on Nicks really are good, or Licht would have gone with that O'lineman in the 3rd. And Meredith seemed to play better at RG when he subbed for the injured Joseph in 2012, so we may be OK there.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 446

      didn’t like the Oline move!two 5th (or a 5th & Zuttah) + a 7th round pick for two late round "long-term project"... not good value!moving up late in the 4th round to take Dakota Dozier (#136) could have been a better move... from #129 to 132 you have the niners, patriots, broncos and seahawks picks who likes to trade down... the Broncos traded their 4th(#131) & 7th round to the Bears for their 5th round and a 5th next year, Licht make the same move and he can take Dozier at #131 & have two 7th round picks...

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 739

          Good observations.     That 3rd round had to be a tough call; Licht briefly said in his PC he saw Sims still on the board at our pick, and felt like he was too good to pass up. IOW, we were still in BAP mode, and he stuck to it despite our perceived needs at G. I'll roll with it for now; we might still nab a vet FA this summer if our 5th rounders don't come along quickly.     I have to figure the medical reports on Nicks really are good, or Licht would have gone with that O'lineman in the 3rd. And Meredith seemed to play better at RG when he subbed for the injured Joseph in 2012, so we may be OK there.

      They drafted best player available.  This is much better than drafting for need.  Your needs lessen every time you take best player available while other teams settle for less to get a need

    • dalbuc

      Participant
      Post count: 696

      Is this the first time in history that we did not take a defensive player in the draft?  Every aspect of this organization has changed and it continued to show during our draft and how we drafted.  If your a person that favors players and position spots then it is hard not to be biased during the draft.  I don’t know what the true motive is altogether when it comes to this draft, none of us know. we will just have to wait and see.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1784

      It might have been too much offense but they needed it. Lovie knows defense so it’s understandable. I like it. Hopefully they win this year. It’s been tough as a Bucs fan.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      Any draft that does not include trade downs/outs but does involve trading away future selections is poor strategy imo.  I don’t see how that general philosophy can be argued with unless you select players with a clairvoyance yet unseen in the NFL.  So however well they select (we’ll see), they aint playing this shit like chess. 

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2847

      didn't like the Oline move!two 5th (or a 5th & Zuttah) + a 7th round pick for two late round "long-term project"... not good value!moving up late in the 4th round to take Dakota Dozier (#136) could have been a better move... from #129 to 132 you have the niners, patriots, broncos and seahawks picks who likes to trade down... the Broncos traded their 4th(#131) & 7th round to the Bears for their 5th round and a 5th next year, Licht make the same move and he can take Dozier at #131 & have two 7th round picks...

        Sounds good. We’ll never know how hard we tried to trade into the 4th. I have to believe we were on the phone…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 517

      I know the Sims pick just didn’t add up at first blush, but this has to be a scheme pick in addition to BPA. Ultimately Tedford’s had some beast RB that excelled in his offense. There’s a type — and even though 99% of us felt it was our deepest position — that we’re lacking. Rainey’s limited when it comes to the outside game. James, even though perfect for what was going on last year, doesn’t seem to be anything other than a solid depth back. Martin’s capable but Sims still brings more of the outside, space skill set. That position is critical to Tedford’s offense, so I have no issue with them addressing it appropriately.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 446

      more than the trade i don’t like the fact they choose two long-term project in an area of short-term needs… Pamphile is alot like Dotson, athletic, basketball background, not a tone of football experience but huge upside, this is a long long-term project... Edwards is a raw prospect too (Warhop likes him alot@Licht)... after preseason they may end up on practice squad for what it's worth...maybe they can help in two or three years but for this year they don't... and we have Oniel Cousins, Jace Daniels, Emmett Cleary, Patrick Omameh for depth, scary... add the fact that Carl Nicks health statut is a real nightmare, Oline is our biggest weakness and the draft didn't upgrade our Oline for 2014 and maybe 2015!

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I like that they went offense, but I’m not too thrilled by half of the guys they picked.Evans seems like a solid, safe pick. After that, it gets questionable. A$J is a good te, but he's not fast, and from what I've seen, catches with his body a little too often to prove his armspan is worth anything to us.After asj, herron is probably the next best player they drafted, which is kinda creepy.Nonetheless, I still want to see some mathematical ratios regarding the actual area circumference in total mccown will be able to throw to on a theoretical basis. If everyone out there has a 70 inch wingspan, how much open field is even left, if we also consider jumping, etc)?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 965

      I’m starting to wonder if both ASJ and Sims were picked because the OG the team was targeting were off of the board.  Bitonio went a few picks before ASJ, and Billy Turner went a couple of picks before Sims.  The Bucs were rumored to be interested in both.  After they were gone, the Bucs just went BPA.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 446

      make sense, add QB in the mix… Su’a-Filo, Carr & Bitonio off the board and they take ASJ, Garoppolo & Turner off the board and they take Sims…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      I'm starting to wonder if both ASJ and Sims were picked because the OG the team was targeting were off of the board.  Bitonio went a few picks before ASJ, and Billy Turner went a couple of picks before Sims.  The Bucs were rumored to be interested in both.  After they were gone, the Bucs just went BPA.

      Good point.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1455

      I’m torn on this draft, it’s nothing like what I would have done but I do still like 4 of the 6 players even if I didn’t like the picks (yes that is 2 different things).Sims is the perfect example, if you look at him in a bubble he's an awesome pick, he has the potential to be a Shady McCoy or Matt Forte type player (as the nickname of The Weapon hints at) in the right situation BUT big picture our backs were already the deepest unit on the entire squad with a guy in Martin who may be top 3 to 5 in the league as #1 and we have nothing that can be counted on at guard, we have trash at QB and still needed another wideout.In fact the 1 and only selection where I like the player and pick would be Herron.Round 1 Evans - like the position picked, like the player, don't like the pick overall (I just don't think you use the #7 pick on a Vincent Jackson like player)Round 2 ASJ - like the position picked, like the player, don't like the pick overall (We didn't NEED a TE and as a USC fan it hurt to see Lee go the very next pick)Round 3 Sims - hate the position picked, love the player, don't like the pick (As above)Round 5 Edwards - love the position picked, don't like the player,  don't like the pick (preferred Yankey and thought we reached by a round)Round 5 Pamphile - love the position picked, don't like the player, don't like the pick (Not sold on the Pamphile, if we were trading up I'd have preferred to take a chance on one of the SEC QBs)Round 6 Herron - love the position picked, love the player, love the pick (All around great pick)But hey, they're all Bucs now so lets hope for the best. (and yes I do hope for the best with McCown/Glennon just because I think they're trash and neither should be starting doesn't mean I want to see them fail, I hope they prove me wrong)

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      If the strategy is to draft only black guys, it's working.    93% of the players the Bucs have drafted in the first 3 rounds the last 6 years have been black.  Only Mike Glennon is white, and he was a 3rd round pick.93%

      evans is half white but I see your point.  Lovie must be the Larry Johnson of the nfl.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2847

      I'm torn on this draft, it's nothing like what I would have done but I do still like 4 of the 6 players even if I didn't like the picks (yes that is 2 different things).Sims is the perfect example, if you look at him in a bubble he's an awesome pick, he has the potential to be a Shady McCoy or Matt Forte type player (as the nickname of The Weapon hints at) in the right situation BUT big picture our backs were already the deepest unit on the entire squad with a guy in Martin who may be top 3 to 5 in the league as #1 and we have nothing that can be counted on at guard, we have trash at QB and still needed another wideout.In fact the 1 and only selection where I like the player and pick would be Herron.Round 1 Evans - like the position picked, like the player, don't like the pick overall (I just don't think you use the #7 pick on a Vincent Jackson like player)Round 2 ASJ - like the position picked, like the player, don't like the pick overall (We didn't NEED a TE and as a USC fan it hurt to see Lee go the very next pick)Round 3 Sims - hate the position picked, love the player, don't like the pick (As above)Round 5 Edwards - love the position picked, don't like the player,  don't like the pick (preferred Yankey and thought we reached by a round)Round 5 Pamphile - love the position picked, don't like the player, don't like the pick (Not sold on the Pamphile, if we were trading up I'd have preferred to take a chance on one of the SEC QBs)Round 6 Herron - love the position picked, love the player, love the pick (All around great pick)But hey, they're all Bucs now so lets hope for the best. (and yes I do hope for the best with McCown/Glennon just because I think they're trash and neither should be starting doesn't mean I want to see them fail, I hope they prove me wrong)

        My impression is the first 3 picks were based on BAP within team fit, the last 3 were targeted picks based on team needs. I hadn't realized it during the draft, but Sims is actually faster than Doug Martin. From what we'ved seen of Martin, Sims is a far better receiver, which seems to be a highly prized attribute in Tedford's offense. All that taken into account and that Martin's 1st round rookie contract is up in 2 years, I get the Sims pick. As for ASJ, he gives us another great pair of hands and another potent blocker. Lee may not have been perceived to be as much of a tough guy. Can he block? Doesn't seem build for it... How would he handle being the #3 WR after being "the guy" in college?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1455

      and that Martin’s 1st round rookie contract is up in 2 years

      Why do people keep trying to make that a valid point?I'm sorry but you don't ignore other team needs to draft a back in the 3rd round just in case you might need him in 2 years.RB is one of those positions where you can go out and spend a mid to late rounder and plug them in the year you need them.Hell you've got a guy who had 2000 yards on the open market and he only got paid $4 million, if Martin doesn't resign in 2016 you replace him in 2016.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2847

      and that Martin's 1st round rookie contract is up in 2 years

      Why do people keep trying to make that a valid point?I'm sorry but you don't ignore other team needs to draft a back in the 3rd round just in case you might need him in 2 years.RB is one of those positions where you can go out and spend a mid to late rounder and plug them in the year you need them.Hell you've got a guy who had 2000 yards on the open market and he only got paid $4 million, if Martin doesn't resign in 2016 you replace him in 2016.

        While it is a fact, it was not IMO the main reason for picking Sims. I’m guessing, but I think Martin’s average at best receiving skills were a concern of the staff. Plus the fact Sims has more speed, and more wiggle in tight spaces, another area Martin has struggled with. Obviously if Martin does walk, we’d have a guy who already knows our system. Smoother all-round transition…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 252

      I feel that LL had a very good draft strategy first and foremost by going all offense. Its what needed to be done to upgrade the dead last ranked offense from last year.The top. Rounds 1 and 2.LL have done everything they could at the top of the draft to help our QB and OC. Tedford is coming into the NFL and has a lot to prove. Mike Evans and ASJ are two players that are extremely hard to cover by anyone on opposing defenses because of their insane cathing radii. Both guys can appear to be covered but then the ball is zipped in there high and tight and the opposing defense can only watch. We dont really need to analyze these picks. These were obviously picks that will turn our anemic offense into a real NFL offense to be reckoned with.The middle.Rounds 3 and 4.Obviously, everyone with a brain is questioning the RB in round 3 Charles Sims. We reached for this guy and ignored OL. It is not insignificant to note that 11 OL were picked in the 3rd round. That must be a record. And the reason why is because the 3rd round is where starting caliber OL were starting to become BPA, the second tier so to speak. With an early pick in the 3rd we were poised to pick up a day one starter at OG. This pick requires a bit of analysis. Choosing RB in the 3rd round meant that without a 4th round pick we would have to wait until the 5th round ... 70 some picks later to address the OL. We have two turnstiles at OG. So what does this tell us about the Bucs RB situation? To me, this indicates that:1) The RB in this offense will need to be a great pass catcher. This is what Sims does best. 2) They are not sold on Doug Martin in this role. Martin was not good at pass catching last year and got injured trying to run a wheel route. A route that he has already proven incapable of running previously. 3) We are going to a spread offense. This is now beyond a doubt for me now. Without a great pass catching RB this offense would struggle. 4) Licht had a couple late round OG's in mind who he feels can contribute? I say this with a big question mark because this is not easy to pull off.5) Sims may get a significant amount of reps. If you are running a spread offense, the RB has to be able to pass pro and catch the ball out of the backfield as well as split out wide ... all things that Doug Martin struggles with. The end. Rounds 5-7. Kadeem Edwards, Kevin Pamphile and Robert Herron. This is a strange draft because usually you arent counting on anything out of your late rounders. But we waited until the end to draft arguably our greatest need. OL. Analysis: In order to justify the early pick of the RB, we need one of the OL we chose to pan out. Otherwise, it was not really a very good strategy. If our QB has no time to throw the ball, our interior OL crumbles to a tough DL then how is the offense going to work? Did we just spend 3 premium picks on skill position offensive players who may not have the time to execute the offense? Im trying to be as optimistic as possible but this is a question that needs to be asked.

      Nice post.  Good takes on middle and late rds.

    • kenminio

      Participant
      Post count: 272

      We have been horrible in the Red Zone and on 3rd downs when they matter most… We addressed that by signing ASJ and Evans. Sims will give us that Woodhead/Vereen/McCluster type player that we need to put in the slot out of the backfield. I like our draft and look forward to seeing if our coaching staff can develop the OLinemen that we drafted by September.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 178

      L&L seemed to have done a great job in addressing most of our team needs in FA and the draft. We are still weak at OG. We made a major leap in our Red zone O. TDs vs FGs will win some games. L&L are putting together a team based on the best available players for each position for the system they are putting in place vs a team carried by a few superstars. Lots of moving parts to get working together, and it remains to be seen if the system will work on both sides of the ball.  But I like both the clarity of there thinking and their approach to getting there. For the first time in years it feels like we have a team with a vision, run by professionals who know what they want and how to put it together. I am excited to see how it works out.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      I'm starting to wonder if both ASJ and Sims were picked because the OG the team was targeting were off of the board.  Bitonio went a few picks before ASJ, and Billy Turner went a couple of picks before Sims.  The Bucs were rumored to be interested in both.  After they were gone, the Bucs just went BPA.

      I thought the same thing when Turner was picked. Some good points in the OP, but I think maybe we are over-thinking what was basically a pure BPA move. Licht said himself that RB wasn't a "need."

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      evans is half white

      That explains his good hands.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      evans is half white

      That explains his good hands.

      Yeah. Look at all those white guys leading the list of all-time receptions. Good to see that your Ladyboy (Skull) and you are enjoying your Sunday. I'll assume you're ironing your cloaks and hoods this evening.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      Our overall strategy is clearly to be brutal in the red zone.  Our draft strategy addressed our biggest weakness… our offense. They targeted our offenses positions of need.  Understanding that they can't fix it all in one draft or even in one off season.I think they did a great job.  On a scale of 1-10 they get a solid 8 this draft, a 9 for FA and until this point a 8.5 (B+) for the off season in general.Get our starting guards and LB depth from these young guys and that would tip it to an A+.JMHO.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      I feel that LL had a very good draft strategy first and foremost by going all offense. Its what needed to be done to upgrade the dead last ranked offense from last year.The top. Rounds 1 and 2.LL have done everything they could at the top of the draft to help our QB and OC. Tedford is coming into the NFL and has a lot to prove. Mike Evans and ASJ are two players that are extremely hard to cover by anyone on opposing defenses because of their insane cathing radii. Both guys can appear to be covered but then the ball is zipped in there high and tight and the opposing defense can only watch. We dont really need to analyze these picks. These were obviously picks that will turn our anemic offense into a real NFL offense to be reckoned with.The middle.Rounds 3 and 4.Obviously, everyone with a brain is questioning the RB in round 3 Charles Sims. We reached for this guy and ignored OL. It is not insignificant to note that 11 OL were picked in the 3rd round. That must be a record. And the reason why is because the 3rd round is where starting caliber OL were starting to become BPA, the second tier so to speak. With an early pick in the 3rd we were poised to pick up a day one starter at OG. This pick requires a bit of analysis. Choosing RB in the 3rd round meant that without a 4th round pick we would have to wait until the 5th round ... 70 some picks later to address the OL. We have two turnstiles at OG. So what does this tell us about the Bucs RB situation? To me, this indicates that:1) The RB in this offense will need to be a great pass catcher. This is what Sims does best. 2) They are not sold on Doug Martin in this role. Martin was not good at pass catching last year and got injured trying to run a wheel route. A route that he has already proven incapable of running previously. 3) We are going to a spread offense. This is now beyond a doubt for me now. Without a great pass catching RB this offense would struggle. 4) Licht had a couple late round OG's in mind who he feels can contribute? I say this with a big question mark because this is not easy to pull off.5) Sims may get a significant amount of reps. If you are running a spread offense, the RB has to be able to pass pro and catch the ball out of the backfield as well as split out wide ... all things that Doug Martin struggles with. The end. Rounds 5-7. Kadeem Edwards, Kevin Pamphile and Robert Herron. This is a strange draft because usually you arent counting on anything out of your late rounders. But we waited until the end to draft arguably our greatest need. OL. Analysis: In order to justify the early pick of the RB, we need one of the OL we chose to pan out. Otherwise, it was not really a very good strategy. If our QB has no time to throw the ball, our interior OL crumbles to a tough DL then how is the offense going to work? Did we just spend 3 premium picks on skill position offensive players who may not have the time to execute the offense? Im trying to be as optimistic as possible but this is a question that needs to be asked.

      The Bucs overall draft strategy revolved around BAP.  We shall see if that pays off in 2-3 years when the existing players may or may no be there and these drafted guys step up to take their place.  I personally don't like when a team spends a 5th on a project player and especially trading up for one as your odds are better trading down and picking up multiple OL instead with those picks.  However, Edwards to me looks the part of a right guard but I am not sure where Pamphile will fit in.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      5th rounder is generally a project anyway….

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      5th rounder is generally a project anyway....

      I disagree as you can find capable players in the 5th that can play day 1.  I don't view Herron as a project for example.  Bucs scooped up Dotson as a free agent as well as Penn..so athletic projects are most often better to sign from the street or post draft than to draft  outright as they are a plentiful which is why I like the Bucs signing LB Nate Askew and QB Brad Smith (athletic players that are projects).

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      Generally.  Always exceptions and I hope we pulled three of them. ;)

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