Viewing 114 reply threads

  • Author

    Posts

    • michael89156

      Participant
      Post count: 3229

      Tampa Bay Buccaneers’ GM Jason Licht has Impressive First Offseason by Nick John 5 minutes ago  via RSSlicht_zps7806b1c2.gifIf Mark Dominik was a “rockstar”, then Jason Licht just might be an “icon”. Licht, who is enjoying his first offseason as the general manager of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, has made quite a few moves that have already impressed the local fans. His first move, the release of superstar cornerback Darrelle Revis after just one season in a Bucs uniform, was polarizing. It may have saved the team money, but it also raised a few questions and created a widespread shock that could be felt throughout the bay area. Since then, it has been smooth sailing for Licht. He replaced Revis with Alterraun Verner, who is a better fit for Tampa’s system. He’s given Lovie Smith a quarterback that he is already familiar with. He’s improved the defensive line. He’s completely overhauled the offensive line. And, speaking of offense, he’s put together a draft class that could become historic when it is all said and done: an all-offensive draft that included a star wide receiver, a dual-threat tight end and running back, two rawly-talented offensive linemen, and a small, but speedy wideout that was the proverbial cherry on top of the epic ice cream sundae. It’s a sundae that could prove to be dynamic on Sundays this fall. Even when you take football out of the equation, Licht has been charming the pants off of the Tampa Bay media. After the all-offensive draft haul, the Bucs’ GM went to the podium at their press conference and said “If anybody sees [Bucs' Defensive Coordinator] Leslie Frazier, let me know.” He added: “We told Lovie the draft was next weekend.” Hilarious. Recently, on an NFL Network appearance, Jason Licht added to his comedy repertoire while talking about drafting sixth-round pick Robert Herron and how he doesn’t have the same basketball-like height of Vincent Jackson, Mike Evans, and Austin Seferian-Jenkins. Without any hesitation after the question about Herron, he said “We needed a point guard.” Also, in another reference to that offensive draft, he told the world that “the plan was to put Lovie in a straitjacket and throw him in a closet, and we were successful with that.” I hear the Tampa Improv needs an opener for some upcoming shows. You may recall former Bucs’ GM Mark Dominik having a similar type of wit. That type of relationship with the media actually worked wonders for Dominik, who’s moves were controversial at times, and who’s players struggled to develop during his tenure in Tampa. Now, Dominik finds himself on the other side of the microphone, as a media member for ESPN. That should serve as a reminder to the local media and fans alike: all of these moves are impressive on paper. We should be very excited that the team of Lovie and Licht are working to bring Tampa a winning squad again, and that their relationship with members of the media should give us plenty of entertaining quotes now, and into the future. But championships are not won in the front office. They are not won in free agency. They are not won in the war room on draft day. And they are certainly not won behind the microphone at the press conference podium. Championships are won on the field, and ultimately, Jason Licht will be judged by how his acquisitions produce, and if they lead the Bucs to many victories. But for now, Licht has done everything right in a situation where plenty could have gone wrong. And for that, Tampa Bay, we should be grateful.http://thepewterplank.com/2014/05/18/tampa-bay-buccaneers-gm-jason-licht-impressive-first-offseason/

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1128

      I’m impressed so far. Looking forward to seeing our new team on the field in training camp.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 181

      Championships are won on the field, and ultimately, Jason Licht will be judged by how his acquisitions produce, and if they lead the Bucs to many victories. http://thepewterplank.com/2014/05/18/tampa-bay-buccaneers-gm-jason-licht-impressive-first-offseason/

      I like what I see but the lone sentence above will tell the tale.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3027

      On paper it’s good. It’s aggressive and spent a lot of our salary cap so I hope we’re much better otherwise we’re gonna be in a tight spot for the next few years with new contracts coming up for McCoy, David, Foster, and a few other key players.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      A little early for this.  Most here thought Dom was a rock star for awhile.  Let’s see how things play out over the next couple of years.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Early signs point to disaster. Free agency frenzy, no answer at QB.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      Its too early to tell, but hard to argue he didnt add talent thus far.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      The W’s will let us know how he did soon enough.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1498

      Early signs point to disaster. Free agency frenzy, no answer at QB.

      Frenzy? ...no, overhauling an under achieving roster with value pick ups. How can you look at the Revis money for Johnson/Verner/Collins swap and call it a frenzy? Did we go out and sign players to record sized contracts? And what was the answer to the QB situation? We signed the best FA available who looks to be poised for a Gannon/Johnson late career surge. And we opted not to reach for a QB in a weak class? Unless you consider drafting JFF at #7 the answer....which you must by the bitter tone of your post.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      I am impressed. I didnt think Lovie could resist drafting defense. Great job team. I am nothing but enthused about everything they have done thus far.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      And what was the answer to the QB situation? We signed the best FA available who looks to be poised for a Gannon/Johnson late career surge. And we opted not to reach for a QB in a weak class? Unless you consider drafting JFF at #7 the answer....which you must by the bitter tone of your post.

      The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1498

      What was your solution? Seems like it’s option number one…..aquire the best QB AVAILABLE.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      And what was the answer to the QB situation? We signed the best FA available who looks to be poised for a Gannon/Johnson late career surge. And we opted not to reach for a QB in a weak class? Unless you consider drafting JFF at #7 the answer....which you must by the bitter tone of your post.

      The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?

      Better than drafting one in the 1st round.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      And what was the answer to the QB situation? We signed the best FA available who looks to be poised for a Gannon/Johnson late career surge. And we opted not to reach for a QB in a weak class? Unless you consider drafting JFF at #7 the answer....which you must by the bitter tone of your post.

      The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?

      Better than drafting one in the 1st round.

      While you have your crystal ball out can you get me some lottery numbers?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 20

      I think he has done a good job so far. The real answer to this teams success is going to be how our defense performs and if we can get a lot of pressure on the QB.  If we can keep injuries to a minimum, I think we can surprise this year.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      What was your solution? Seems like it's option number one.....aquire the best QB AVAILABLE.

      Out of all these he was the best?Pos Player FA Status Previous Team Current TeamQB Derek Anderson Re-signed Carolina Panthers Carolina PanthersQB Jason Campbell Signed Cleveland Browns Cincinnati BengalsQB Matt Cassel Re-signed Minnesota Vikings Minnesota VikingsQB Jimmy Clausen UFA Carolina Panthers Free AgentQB Kellen Clemens Signed St. Louis Rams San Diego ChargersQB Jonathan Crompton RFA Washington Redskins Washington RedskinsQB Jay Cutler Re-signed Chicago Bears Chicago BearsQB B.J. Daniels Re-signed Seattle Seahawks Seattle SeahawksQB Pat Devlin ERFA Miami Dolphins Miami DolphinsQB Dennis Dixon Signed Philadelphia Eagles Buffalo BillsQB Trent Edwards Signed Chicago Bears Oakland RaidersQB Kory Faulkner Signed NCAA San Francisco 49ersQB Ryan Fitzpatrick Signed Tennessee Titans Houston TexansQB Matt Flynn Re-signed Green Bay Packers Green Bay PackersQB James Franklin Signed NCAA Detroit LionsQB Josh Freeman Signed Minnesota Vikings New York GiantsQB Blaine Gabbert Signed Jacksonville Jaguars San Francisco 49ersQB David Garrard UFA New York Jets Free AgentQB Rex Grossman UFA Washington Redskins Free AgentQB Caleb Hanie Signed Cleveland Browns Dallas CowboysQB Chandler Harnish Re-signed Indianapolis Colts Indianapolis ColtsQB Chad Henne Re-signed Jacksonville Jaguars Jacksonville JaguarsQB Shaun Hill Signed Detroit Lions St. Louis RamsQB Tarvaris Jackson Re-signed Seattle Seahawks Seattle SeahawksQB Brock Jensen Signed NCAA Miami DolphinsQB Jerrod JohnsonNew player news! Re-signed Chicago Bears Chicago BearsQB Josh X. Johnson Signed Cincinnati Bengals San Francisco 49ersQB Mike Kafka Signed Jacksonville Jaguars Tampa Bay BuccaneersQB G.J. Kinne Re-signed Philadelphia Eagles Philadelphia EaglesQB Jon Kitna UFA Dallas Cowboys Free AgentQB Collin Klein Signed Houston Texans CFLQB Kevin Kolb UFA (Cut) Buffalo Bills Free AgentQB Jeff Matthews Signed Atlanta Falcons Atlanta FalconsQB Josh McCown Signed Chicago Bears Tampa Bay BuccaneersQB Luke McCown Re-signed New Orleans Saints New Orleans SaintsQB Colt McCoy Signed San Francisco 49ers Washington RedskinsQB Greg McElroy Signed Cincinnati Bengals RetiredQB Stephen Morris Signed NCAA Jacksonville JaguarsQB Dan Orlovsky Signed Tampa Bay Buccaneers Detroit LionsQB Curtis Painter Re-signed New York Giants New York GiantsQB Jordan PalmerNew player news! Re-signed Chicago Bears Chicago BearsQB Terrelle Pryor Signed Oakland Raiders Seattle SeahawksQB Brady Quinn UFA St. Louis Rams Free AgentQB Tommy ReesNew player news! UFA (Cut) Washington Redskins Free AgentQB Zac Robinson UFA (Cut) Cincinnati Bengals Free AgentQB Jordan Rodgers UFA (Cut) Miami Dolphins Free AgentQB Mark Sanchez Signed New York Jets Philadelphia EaglesQB Matt SchaubNew player news! Signed Houston Texans Oakland RaidersQB Matt Scott Signed Jacksonville Jaguars Cincinnati BengalsQB Matt Simms Re-signed New York Jets New York JetsQB Rusty Smith UFA (Cut) New York Giants Free AgentQB Alex Tanney UFA (Cut) Cleveland Browns Free AgentQB Tyler Thigpen Signed Buffalo Bills Cleveland BrownsQB Michael VickNew player news! Signed Philadelphia Eagles New York JetsQB Seneca Wallace UFA Green Bay Packers Free AgentQB Joe Webb Signed Minnesota Vikings Carolina PanthersQB Brandon Weeden Signed Cleveland Browns Dallas CowboysQB Charlie Whitehurst Signed San Diego Chargers Tennessee TitansQB Vince Young UFA (Cut) Cleveland Browns Free Agent

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      And what was the answer to the QB situation? We signed the best FA available who looks to be poised for a Gannon/Johnson late career surge. And we opted not to reach for a QB in a weak class? Unless you consider drafting JFF at #7 the answer....which you must by the bitter tone of your post.

      The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?

      Better than drafting one in the 1st round.

      While you have your crystal ball out can you get me some lottery numbers?

      Its not a crystal ball...its statistics.  Its a roll of the dice even if you love the guy.  If you dont love a QB, take someone you do. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      And what was the answer to the QB situation? We signed the best FA available who looks to be poised for a Gannon/Johnson late career surge. And we opted not to reach for a QB in a weak class? Unless you consider drafting JFF at #7 the answer....which you must by the bitter tone of your post.

      The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?

      Better than drafting one in the 1st round.

      While you have your crystal ball out can you get me some lottery numbers?

      Its not a crystal ball...its statistics.  Its a roll of the dice even if you love the guy.  If you dont love a QB, take someone you do.

      Is it statistics or is it a roll of the dice? Make up your mind! Not to mention post them statistics.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      And what was the answer to the QB situation? We signed the best FA available who looks to be poised for a Gannon/Johnson late career surge. And we opted not to reach for a QB in a weak class? Unless you consider drafting JFF at #7 the answer....which you must by the bitter tone of your post.

      The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?

      Better than drafting one in the 1st round.

      While you have your crystal ball out can you get me some lottery numbers?

      Its not a crystal ball...its statistics.  Its a roll of the dice even if you love the guy.  If you dont love a QB, take someone you do.

      Is it statistics or is it a roll of the dice? Make up your mind!

      A dice roll is statistics.  Holy face palm batman!!!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9

      The question is: “how do we like Licht so far?”. Obviously we can not evaluate his abilities very accurately yet – the truth is in the W’s only. But answering the question:I like his wit and I also like his apparent belief in drafting BPA only modified partly by need.Most of all though I like his enthusiasm. He really loves his job and is obviously very passionate about it. It is contagious for me and makes me feel optimistic about the upcoming season. I am sure he has the same effect on the players.This supplemented by the calm demeanor of Coach Smith provides our organization with an ideal starting point going into the season.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      And what was the answer to the QB situation? We signed the best FA available who looks to be poised for a Gannon/Johnson late career surge. And we opted not to reach for a QB in a weak class? Unless you consider drafting JFF at #7 the answer....which you must by the bitter tone of your post.

      The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?

      Better than drafting one in the 1st round.

      While you have your crystal ball out can you get me some lottery numbers?

      Its not a crystal ball...its statistics.  Its a roll of the dice even if you love the guy.  If you dont love a QB, take someone you do.

      Is it statistics or is it a roll of the dice? Make up your mind!

      A dice roll is statistics.  Holy face palm batman!!!

      Damn right holy face palm batman! Statistics is the study of the collection, organization, analysis, interpretation and presentation of data and that equals a dice roll? WTF batman!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1845

      And what was the answer to the QB situation? We signed the best FA available who looks to be poised for a Gannon/Johnson late career surge. And we opted not to reach for a QB in a weak class? Unless you consider drafting JFF at #7 the answer....which you must by the bitter tone of your post.

      The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?

      Better than drafting one in the 1st round.

      While you have your crystal ball out can you get me some lottery numbers?

      Its not a crystal ball...its statistics.  Its a roll of the dice even if you love the guy.  If you dont love a QB, take someone you do.

      Is it statistics or is it a roll of the dice? Make up your mind!

      A dice roll is statistics.  Holy face palm batman!!!

      Law of probability doesn't apply here :)

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1419

      Early signs point to disaster. Free agency frenzy, no answer at QB.

      LMFAOpar for the course

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      Early signs point to disaster. Free agency frenzy, no answer at QB.

      HAHAHAHA...I see JC is still posting with his head squarely up Josh Freeman's ass.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      Early signs point to disaster. Free agency frenzy, no answer at QB.

      HAHAHAHA...I see JC is still posting with his head squarely up Josh Freeman's ass.

      The only question is which head.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      And what was the answer to the QB situation? We signed the best FA available who looks to be poised for a Gannon/Johnson late career surge. And we opted not to reach for a QB in a weak class? Unless you consider drafting JFF at #7 the answer....which you must by the bitter tone of your post.

      The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?

      Better than drafting one in the 1st round.

      While you have your crystal ball out can you get me some lottery numbers?

      Its not a crystal ball...its statistics.  Its a roll of the dice even if you love the guy.  If you dont love a QB, take someone you do.

      Is it statistics or is it a roll of the dice? Make up your mind!

      A dice roll is statistics.  Holy face palm batman!!!

      Damn right holy face palm batman! Statistics is the study of the collection, organization, analysis, interpretation and presentation of data and that equals a dice roll? WTF batman!

      I see your wiki works this morning.  You know all those books written on how to beat Vegas?  That would be the study, collection, organization, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of data along with how to build a strategy around them.That being said, Im pretty sure you dont need me to tell you that the bust rate of a 1st round QB is higher than the success rate of a 1st round QB.  So back to my first statement, if you dont love the guy, dont draft him.  You and I arent betting our jobs on these draft picks, LnL along with all the other GMs/HCs are. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 642

      Early signs point to disaster. Free agency frenzy, no answer at QB.

      HAHAHAHA...I see JC is still posting with his head squarely up Josh Freeman's ass.

      While the persistent and clueless are still mourning,  I'm simply delighted we don't have to start the season with Freeman. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      I see your wiki works this morning.  You know all those books written on how to beat Vegas?  That would be the study, collection, organization, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of data along with how to build a strategy around them.That being said, Im pretty sure you dont need me to tell you that the bust rate of a 1st round QB is higher than the success rate of a 1st round QB.  So back to my first statement, if you dont love the guy, dont draft him.  You and I arent betting our jobs on these draft picks, LnL along with all the other GMs/HCs are.

      Your first statement was a career backup is better then a 1st round QB. You can try to twist it anyway you want but you can't escape this:Me: The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?You: Better than drafting one in the 1st round.Now get back on track and use statistics and rolling dice to quantify that stance. Heck use anything you want or need to do it. No more trying to skirt it to avoid it.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      I see your wiki works this morning.  You know all those books written on how to beat Vegas?  That would be the study, collection, organization, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of data along with how to build a strategy around them.That being said, Im pretty sure you dont need me to tell you that the bust rate of a 1st round QB is higher than the success rate of a 1st round QB.  So back to my first statement, if you dont love the guy, dont draft him.  You and I arent betting our jobs on these draft picks, LnL along with all the other GMs/HCs are.

      Your first statement was a career backup is better then a 1st round QB. You can try to twist it anyway you want but you can't escape this:Me: The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?You: Better than drafting one in the 1st round.Now get back on track and use statistics and rolling dice to quantify that stance. Heck use anything you want or need to do it.

      Yes, I would rather draft a potential stud WR than draft a career backup QB.  I'm sorry we didnt draft your midget heart throb, but its time to get over it.The recent 10 year study of 1st round draft picks show that nearly half (46%) of them are complete busts.  The % is even higher for QBs.  For every Peyton Manning-like example, there are 3+ busts that can be named.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Early signs point to disaster. Free agency frenzy, no answer at QB.

      Frenzy? ...no, overhauling an under achieving roster with value pick ups. How can you look at the Revis money for Johnson/Verner/Collins swap and call it a frenzy? Did we go out and sign players to record sized contracts? And what was the answer to the QB situation? We signed the best FA available who looks to be poised for a Gannon/Johnson late career surge. And we opted not to reach for a QB in a weak class? Unless you consider drafting JFF at #7 the answer....which you must by the bitter tone of your post.

      It was a frenzy. http://espn.go.com/blog/tampa-bay-buccaneers/post/_/id/4111/bucs-lead-nfl-in-guaranteed-money.The answer at QB is not McCown "grooming" Glennon.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      I see your wiki works this morning.  You know all those books written on how to beat Vegas?  That would be the study, collection, organization, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of data along with how to build a strategy around them.That being said, Im pretty sure you dont need me to tell you that the bust rate of a 1st round QB is higher than the success rate of a 1st round QB.  So back to my first statement, if you dont love the guy, dont draft him.  You and I arent betting our jobs on these draft picks, LnL along with all the other GMs/HCs are.

      Your first statement was a career backup is better then a 1st round QB. You can try to twist it anyway you want but you can't escape this:Me: The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?You: Better than drafting one in the 1st round.Now get back on track and use statistics and rolling dice to quantify that stance. Heck use anything you want or need to do it.

      Yes, I would rather draft a potential stud WR than draft a career backup QB.  I'm sorry we didnt draft your midget heart throb, but its time to get over it.The recent 10 year study of 1st round draft picks show that nearly half (46%) of them are complete busts.  The % is even higher for QBs.  For every Peyton Manning-like example, there are 3+ busts that can be named.

      Still nothing but a random (pun intended) jab with a draft comment I could careless about? No links or anything? No mention on statistics of a career backup QB suddenly becoming good? I figured as much from you though.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      Hard to know how anything is going to work out, but I do like how there are absolutely no sacred cows with Licht. He’s doing what he thinks is best and he doesn’t care what Schiano, Morris, Gruden, Dungy, or Wyche did before him.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      I see your wiki works this morning.  You know all those books written on how to beat Vegas?  That would be the study, collection, organization, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of data along with how to build a strategy around them.That being said, Im pretty sure you dont need me to tell you that the bust rate of a 1st round QB is higher than the success rate of a 1st round QB.  So back to my first statement, if you dont love the guy, dont draft him.  You and I arent betting our jobs on these draft picks, LnL along with all the other GMs/HCs are.

      Your first statement was a career backup is better then a 1st round QB. You can try to twist it anyway you want but you can't escape this:Me: The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?You: Better than drafting one in the 1st round.Now get back on track and use statistics and rolling dice to quantify that stance. Heck use anything you want or need to do it.

      Yes, I would rather draft a potential stud WR than draft a career backup QB.  I'm sorry we didnt draft your midget heart throb, but its time to get over it.The recent 10 year study of 1st round draft picks show that nearly half (46%) of them are complete busts.  The % is even higher for QBs.  For every Peyton Manning-like example, there are 3+ busts that can be named.

      Still nothing but a random (pun intended) jab with a draft comment I could careless about? No links or anything? No mention on statistics of a career backup QB suddenly becoming good? I figured as much from you though.

      If you cant look at the drafts over the last 10 years and realize that most 1st round QBs are busts then no amount of cited statistics is going to help you.  Its time to move on from your Manziel crush son.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Hard to know how anything is going to work out, but I do like how there are absolutely no sacred cows with Licht. He's doing what he thinks is best and he doesn't care what Schiano, Morris, Gruden, Dungy, or Wyche did before him.

      Doesn't care what the Raiders and Redskins have done before him either, because he's using their free agency model.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      Some of y’all are way too ADD for me.  Get with the now gents.I do think Licht is doing a good job so far.  A pleasant surprise around every corner.Looking forward to watching how it all turns out.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      I see your wiki works this morning.  You know all those books written on how to beat Vegas?  That would be the study, collection, organization, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of data along with how to build a strategy around them.That being said, Im pretty sure you dont need me to tell you that the bust rate of a 1st round QB is higher than the success rate of a 1st round QB.  So back to my first statement, if you dont love the guy, dont draft him.  You and I arent betting our jobs on these draft picks, LnL along with all the other GMs/HCs are.

      Your first statement was a career backup is better then a 1st round QB. You can try to twist it anyway you want but you can't escape this:Me: The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?You: Better than drafting one in the 1st round.Now get back on track and use statistics and rolling dice to quantify that stance. Heck use anything you want or need to do it.

      Yes, I would rather draft a potential stud WR than draft a career backup QB.  I'm sorry we didnt draft your midget heart throb, but its time to get over it.The recent 10 year study of 1st round draft picks show that nearly half (46%) of them are complete busts.  The % is even higher for QBs.  For every Peyton Manning-like example, there are 3+ busts that can be named.

      Still nothing but a random (pun intended) jab with a draft comment I could careless about? No links or anything? No mention on statistics of a career backup QB suddenly becoming good? I figured as much from you though.

      If you cant look at the drafts over the last 10 years and realize that most 1st round QBs are busts then no amount of cited statistics is going to help you.  Its time to move on from your Manziel crush son.

      I can't compare a career backup to a draft pick in any round without knowing the odds a career backup will raise to become a starter. Where is that stat? I know it's easier to try to lash out in hopes you can side track the conversation with a Manziel comment but it's not happening. All the draft attacking in the world won't save you but feel free to keep trying. It's amusing.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      Some of y'all are way too ADD for me.  Get with the now gents.I do think Licht is doing a good job so far.  A pleasant surprise around every corner.Looking forward to watching how it all turns out.

      FYI: The term ADD hasn't been used since 1994. It's ADHD now.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      I see your wiki works this morning.  You know all those books written on how to beat Vegas?  That would be the study, collection, organization, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of data along with how to build a strategy around them.That being said, Im pretty sure you dont need me to tell you that the bust rate of a 1st round QB is higher than the success rate of a 1st round QB.  So back to my first statement, if you dont love the guy, dont draft him.  You and I arent betting our jobs on these draft picks, LnL along with all the other GMs/HCs are.

      Your first statement was a career backup is better then a 1st round QB. You can try to twist it anyway you want but you can't escape this:Me: The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?You: Better than drafting one in the 1st round.Now get back on track and use statistics and rolling dice to quantify that stance. Heck use anything you want or need to do it.

      Yes, I would rather draft a potential stud WR than draft a career backup QB.  I'm sorry we didnt draft your midget heart throb, but its time to get over it.The recent 10 year study of 1st round draft picks show that nearly half (46%) of them are complete busts.  The % is even higher for QBs.  For every Peyton Manning-like example, there are 3+ busts that can be named.

      Still nothing but a random (pun intended) jab with a draft comment I could careless about? No links or anything? No mention on statistics of a career backup QB suddenly becoming good? I figured as much from you though.

      If you cant look at the drafts over the last 10 years and realize that most 1st round QBs are busts then no amount of cited statistics is going to help you.  Its time to move on from your Manziel crush son.

      I can't compare a career backup to a draft pick in any round without knowing the odds a career backup will raise to become a starter. Where is that stat? I know it's easier to try to lash out in hopes you can side track the conversation with a Manziel comment but it's not happening. All the draft attacking in the world won't save you but feel free to keep trying. It's amusing.

      Ok, you are absolutely right on that.  I have no stats on the odds of a career back up becoming a starter, but that was also not what I was saying.  I was referring to drafting a guy in the 1st who is not the answer at QB.  Do they always end up a back up?  No, sometimes they just get bounced out of the league all together.  Looking at the 1st round QBs from 2000-2012, there have been 36.  12 of those would be considered hits, 2 the jury is still out on (Tannehill/RG3), and 22 were busts.  So, since you asked for statistics, that is a 66.6% chance of failure taking a 1st round QB.  Im sorry things didnt go your way in the draft, my condolences.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1658

      That being said, Im pretty sure you dont need me to tell you that the bust rate of a 1st round QB is higher than the success rate of a 1st round QB. 

      Based on what I've seen over the years, it tends more towards 50-50.  I think ultimately though, you have to trust your scouts.  Had there been a guy they liked, I would have been fine with them drafting one.  Since it seems that they didn't, I can't sit here and second guess them on the point.  Since there apparently wasn't a first round QB prospect that they particularly like, McCown *was* the best option available.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Hard to know how anything is going to work out, but I do like how there are absolutely no sacred cows with Licht. He's doing what he thinks is best and he doesn't care what Schiano, Morris, Gruden, Dungy, or Wyche did before him.

      good point

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      That being said, Im pretty sure you dont need me to tell you that the bust rate of a 1st round QB is higher than the success rate of a 1st round QB. 

      Based on what I've seen over the years, it tends more towards 50-50.  I think ultimately though, you have to trust your scouts.  Had there been a guy they liked, I would have been fine with them drafting one.  Since it seems that they didn't, I can't sit here and second guess them on the point.  Since there apparently wasn't a first round QB prospect that they particularly like, McCown *was* the best option available.

      There are also two types of 1st round QBs. There are the ones who get drafted in the top 15 picks by a bad team because they think this guy is definitely the guy and we're not screwing around and waiting and we're definitely not picking a different position. Those ones tend to work out at a pretty respectable rate. Then you have the ones who go after pick #15 whom all the bad teams without a QB decided they'd rather have a different player more. Those players don't work out all that often.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2603

      I see your wiki works this morning.  You know all those books written on how to beat Vegas?  That would be the study, collection, organization, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of data along with how to build a strategy around them.That being said, Im pretty sure you dont need me to tell you that the bust rate of a 1st round QB is higher than the success rate of a 1st round QB.  So back to my first statement, if you dont love the guy, dont draft him.  You and I arent betting our jobs on these draft picks, LnL along with all the other GMs/HCs are.

      Your first statement was a career backup is better then a 1st round QB. You can try to twist it anyway you want but you can't escape this:Me: The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?You: Better than drafting one in the 1st round.Now get back on track and use statistics and rolling dice to quantify that stance. Heck use anything you want or need to do it.

      Yes, I would rather draft a potential stud WR than draft a career backup QB.  I'm sorry we didnt draft your midget heart throb, but its time to get over it.The recent 10 year study of 1st round draft picks show that nearly half (46%) of them are complete busts.  The % is even higher for QBs.  For every Peyton Manning-like example, there are 3+ busts that can be named.

      Still nothing but a random (pun intended) jab with a draft comment I could careless about? No links or anything? No mention on statistics of a career backup QB suddenly becoming good? I figured as much from you though.

      If you cant look at the drafts over the last 10 years and realize that most 1st round QBs are busts then no amount of cited statistics is going to help you.  Its time to move on from your Manziel crush son.

      I can't compare a career backup to a draft pick in any round without knowing the odds a career backup will raise to become a starter. Where is that stat? I know it's easier to try to lash out in hopes you can side track the conversation with a Manziel comment but it's not happening. All the draft attacking in the world won't save you but feel free to keep trying. It's amusing.

      Ok, you are absolutely right on that.  I have no stats on the odds of a career back up becoming a starter, but that was also not what I was saying.  I was referring to drafting a guy in the 1st who is not the answer at QB.  Do they always end up a back up?  No, sometimes they just get bounced out of the league all together.  Looking at the 1st round QBs from 2000-2012, there have been 36.  12 of those would be considered hits, 2 the jury is still out on (Tannehill/RG3), and 22 were busts.  So, since you asked for statistics, that is a 66.6% chance of failure taking a 1st round QB.  Im sorry things didnt go your way in the draft, my condolences.

      Funny enough you're missing the most important stat of all. The Buc's have NEVER, let me repeat that, NEVER developed a QB into anything worth mentioning. Do I look crazy? Why would I want to draft a QB knowing hell hasn't frozen over yet? My condolences on your lack of ability to back your claim and epic failure to troll with draft jokes. Please do continue I need more amusement. :)

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      I see your wiki works this morning.  You know all those books written on how to beat Vegas?  That would be the study, collection, organization, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of data along with how to build a strategy around them.That being said, Im pretty sure you dont need me to tell you that the bust rate of a 1st round QB is higher than the success rate of a 1st round QB.  So back to my first statement, if you dont love the guy, dont draft him.  You and I arent betting our jobs on these draft picks, LnL along with all the other GMs/HCs are.

      Your first statement was a career backup is better then a 1st round QB. You can try to twist it anyway you want but you can't escape this:Me: The best FA QB was a career backup? You accept and welcome that?You: Better than drafting one in the 1st round.Now get back on track and use statistics and rolling dice to quantify that stance. Heck use anything you want or need to do it.

      Yes, I would rather draft a potential stud WR than draft a career backup QB.  I'm sorry we didnt draft your midget heart throb, but its time to get over it.The recent 10 year study of 1st round draft picks show that nearly half (46%) of them are complete busts.  The % is even higher for QBs.  For every Peyton Manning-like example, there are 3+ busts that can be named.

      Still nothing but a random (pun intended) jab with a draft comment I could careless about? No links or anything? No mention on statistics of a career backup QB suddenly becoming good? I figured as much from you though.

      If you cant look at the drafts over the last 10 years and realize that most 1st round QBs are busts then no amount of cited statistics is going to help you.  Its time to move on from your Manziel crush son.

      I can't compare a career backup to a draft pick in any round without knowing the odds a career backup will raise to become a starter. Where is that stat? I know it's easier to try to lash out in hopes you can side track the conversation with a Manziel comment but it's not happening. All the draft attacking in the world won't save you but feel free to keep trying. It's amusing.

      Ok, you are absolutely right on that.  I have no stats on the odds of a career back up becoming a starter, but that was also not what I was saying.  I was referring to drafting a guy in the 1st who is not the answer at QB.  Do they always end up a back up?  No, sometimes they just get bounced out of the league all together.  Looking at the 1st round QBs from 2000-2012, there have been 36.  12 of those would be considered hits, 2 the jury is still out on (Tannehill/RG3), and 22 were busts.  So, since you asked for statistics, that is a 66.6% chance of failure taking a 1st round QB.  Im sorry things didnt go your way in the draft, my condolences.

      Funny enough you're missing the most important stat of all. The Buc's have NEVER, let me repeat that, NEVER developed a QB into anything worth mentioning. Do I look crazy? Why would I want to draft a QB knowing hell hasn't frozen over yet? My condolences on your lack of ability to back your claim and epic failure to troll with draft jokes. Please do continue I need more amusement. :)

      You'll get no argument from me on being able to develop a QB, at that we fail.  But, that is also why I am happy we passed on a QB this year, they all needed development. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 178

      I like his wit, but I like his “team” over ,” star ” approach even better. I like the fact he did not reach for a QB in what looked like a weak class. I liked the fact that he took a TE and RB before filling or trying to fill the need at the less demanding role of RG. Wins clearly tell the story, but so far, I like him.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      The question is: "how do we like Licht so far?". Obviously we can not evaluate his abilities very accurately yet - the truth is in the W's only. But answering the question:I like his wit and I also like his apparent belief in drafting BPA only modified partly by need.Most of all though I like his enthusiasm. He really loves his job and is obviously very passionate about it. It is contagious for me and makes me feel optimistic about the upcoming season. I am sure he has the same effect on the players.This supplemented by the calm demeanor of Coach Smith provides our organization with an ideal starting point going into the season.

      Good post.And I would add, L&L said they would be cleaning house, and it sounded like BS at the time. But damned if they didn't send a lot of players packing.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      Some of y'all are way too ADD for me.  Get with the now gents.I do think Licht is doing a good job so far.  A pleasant surprise around every corner.Looking forward to watching how it all turns out.

      FYI: The term ADD hasn't been used since 1994. It's ADHD now.

      Lol

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      Licht is going to have his mistakes.. some of his free agents may not live up to expectations. Some of his draft picks will bust. That is reality. But right now, in his first off-season he has rebuilt this team. How can any Buc fan not be excited about all that he has done? He brought in the no.1 free agent QB statistically speaking. He completely rebuilt the OL, he drafted 4 explosive weapons for the offense. What was he supposed to do? Pray to baby Jesus that his team would be better and just roll with the players who just won 4 games? Come on.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      I’m good as long as he doesn’t utter the “Dunkaneers” again……that was awful!!!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Paid too much for mj and reached for sims.I think manziel is the key to how we will eventually feel about him though. Since they passed on him for evans, if manziel goes beastmode, or evans busts, it's going to backfire on him. Idk though, because it's cleveland. They just love turning first rounders into mush. And even though he has his mistakes, I'd say he's somewhere around a "b" grade for his job as a gm thus far.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      Paid too much for mj and reached for sims.I think manziel is the key to how we will eventually feel about him though. Since they passed on him for evans, if manziel goes beastmode, or evans busts, it's going to backfire on him. Idk though, because it's cleveland. They just love turning first rounders into mush. And even though he has his mistakes, I'd say he's somewhere around a "b" grade for his job as a gm thus far.

      Its a tad early to say he has made mistakes isnt it? 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Paid too much for mj and reached for sims.I think manziel is the key to how we will eventually feel about him though. Since they passed on him for evans, if manziel goes beastmode, or evans busts, it's going to backfire on him. Idk though, because it's cleveland. They just love turning first rounders into mush. And even though he has his mistakes, I'd say he's somewhere around a "b" grade for his job as a gm thus far.

      A RB in the 3rd is a reach?I love the built in Manziel excuse already. "It's Cleveland"... If he busts it's because he sucks because Joe Haden, Joe Thomas, Josh Gordon, Jordan Cameron, Jabaal Sheard, and a lot of other good players Cleveland picked didn't have problems just because they play for the Browns.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5572

      Early signs point to disaster. Free agency frenzy, no answer at QB.

      Wait one damn second. You were the one demanding that we trade Revis and sign several guys with that money. The FO does that and now you accuse them of going on a FA frenzy.Which one is it?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Early signs point to disaster. Free agency frenzy, no answer at QB.

      Wait one damn second. You were the one demanding that we trade Revis and sign several guys with that money. The FO does that and now you accuse them of going on a FA frenzy.Which one is it?

      They didn't sign Freeman when they had the chance!!!!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Early signs point to disaster. Free agency frenzy, no answer at QB.

      Wait one damn second. You were the one demanding that we trade Revis and sign several guys with that money. The FO does that and now you accuse them of going on a FA frenzy.Which one is it?

      Trade him. Not give him away so New England can sign him and he can win DPOY. Trading him would have meant no free agents this year because he would have counted $30M against the cap. We would have sucked, bad. But there would have been a purpose, a direction. We're going to suck this year but with no purpose, going around in circles like a turd that won't flush.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      Early signs point to disaster. Free agency frenzy, no answer at QB.

      Wait one damn second. You were the one demanding that we trade Revis and sign several guys with that money. The FO does that and now you accuse them of going on a FA frenzy.Which one is it?

      Trade him. Not give him away so New England can sign him and he can win DPOY. Trading him would have meant no free agents this year because he would have counted $30M against the cap. We would have sucked, bad. But there would have been a purpose, a direction. We're going to suck this year but with no purpose, going around in circles like a turd that won't flush.

      You also said his contract was untradeable, Mr. Strawman.  I remember that because its the only thing I have ever agreed with you on.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      I had a month long thread on how to make Revis one of the most tradeable assets in league history. Instead they flat out released him and signed a bunch of career backups.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      I had a month long thread on how to make Revis one of the most tradeable assets in league history. Instead they flat out released him and signed a bunch of career backups.

      one of those items was this crazy notion of eating most of his contract, lol.JC, not sure what pleasure you get from all this nonsense, but . . ..

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      I had a month long thread on how to make Revis one of the most tradeable assets in league history. Instead they flat out released him and signed a bunch of career backups.

      Yes, your brilliant plan was to front load the contract and eat all the money.  I cant figure out why they wouldnt have followed that brilliant path.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      When the Bucs don’t win the Super Bowl in 2014 I’m automatically right. The only reason not to have done it is because they’re chasing the Lombardi in 2014 with this hot mess of a roster.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      When the Bucs don't win the Super Bowl in 2014 I'm automatically right. The only reason not to have done it is because they're chasing the Lombardi in 2014 with this hot mess of a roster.

      Just when I think you have reached the pinnacle of dumb statements...

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      When the Bucs don't win the Super Bowl in 2014 I'm automatically right. The only reason not to have done it is because they're chasing the Lombardi in 2014 with this hot mess of a roster.

      lots of folks like the roster, lots of talent. Most folks that dont like the roster believe we should have probowlers at every position including backups

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      When the Bucs don't win the Super Bowl in 2014 I'm automatically right. The only reason not to have done it is because they're chasing the Lombardi in 2014 with this hot mess of a roster.

      Just when I think you have reached the pinnacle of dumb statements...

      Pure comedy

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      When the Bucs don't win the Super Bowl in 2014 I'm automatically right. The only reason not to have done it is because they're chasing the Lombardi in 2014 with this hot mess of a roster.

      lots of folks like the roster, lots of talent. Most folks that dont like the roster believe we should have probowlers at every position including backups

      I believe we should have a franchise QB in place before we spend like crazy.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      When the Bucs don't win the Super Bowl in 2014 I'm automatically right. The only reason not to have done it is because they're chasing the Lombardi in 2014 with this hot mess of a roster.

      Just when I think you have reached the pinnacle of dumb statements...

      Pure comedy

      Im starting to feel bad at all the laughing.  He's...special.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      When the Bucs don't win the Super Bowl in 2014 I'm automatically right. The only reason not to have done it is because they're chasing the Lombardi in 2014 with this hot mess of a roster.

      lots of folks like the roster, lots of talent. Most folks that dont like the roster believe we should have probowlers at every position including backups

      I believe we should have a franchise QB in place before we spend like crazy.

      Great idea, lets just go pluck one from the QB tree.  Or, we could pick one up at the super market. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2847

            Lovin’ the Licht…      LOL; instant gratification folk are never satisfied. Licht has plugged a lot of holes on paper, which is certainly needed as a first step. Very promising start; he obviously understands football...

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      Another brilliant thread sprinkled with JC and his moronic postsPR should pay JC...I keep coming back just see how far into the abyss of stupidity he has fallen...

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      When the Bucs don't win the Super Bowl in 2014 I'm automatically right. The only reason not to have done it is because they're chasing the Lombardi in 2014 with this hot mess of a roster.

      lots of folks like the roster, lots of talent. Most folks that dont like the roster believe we should have probowlers at every position including backups

      I believe we should have a franchise QB in place before we spend like crazy.

      Great idea, lets just go pluck one from the QB tree.  Or, we could pick one up at the super market.

      I heard Whole Foods has a sale on em.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      When the Bucs don't win the Super Bowl in 2014 I'm automatically right. The only reason not to have done it is because they're chasing the Lombardi in 2014 with this hot mess of a roster.

      lots of folks like the roster, lots of talent. Most folks that dont like the roster believe we should have probowlers at every position including backups

      I believe we should have a franchise QB in place before we spend like crazy.

      Great idea, lets just go pluck one from the QB tree.  Or, we could pick one up at the super market.

      I heard Whole Foods has a sale on em.

      Only the organic ones.  I prefer my QBs full of fillers and preservatives...they last longer.  ;D

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      I believe we should have a franchise QB in place before we spend like crazy.

      so realistically, you would have skipped free agency this past year?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      When the Bucs don't win the Super Bowl in 2014 I'm automatically right. The only reason not to have done it is because they're chasing the Lombardi in 2014 with this hot mess of a roster.

      lots of folks like the roster, lots of talent. Most folks that dont like the roster believe we should have probowlers at every position including backups

      I believe we should have a franchise QB in place before we spend like crazy.

      Great idea, lets just go pluck one from the QB tree.  Or, we could pick one up at the super market.

      I heard Whole Foods has a sale on em.

      Only the organic ones.  I prefer my QBs full of fillers and preservatives...they last longer.  ;D

      The last scrub we had filled himself with all kinds of things. I want an all natural one this time.Let's debate this when we go to the store. The sale only lasts but so long.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      When the Bucs don't win the Super Bowl in 2014 I'm automatically right. The only reason not to have done it is because they're chasing the Lombardi in 2014 with this hot mess of a roster.

      lots of folks like the roster, lots of talent. Most folks that dont like the roster believe we should have probowlers at every position including backups

      I believe we should have a franchise QB in place before we spend like crazy.

      Great idea, lets just go pluck one from the QB tree.  Or, we could pick one up at the super market.

      Or the draft.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      When the Bucs don't win the Super Bowl in 2014 I'm automatically right. The only reason not to have done it is because they're chasing the Lombardi in 2014 with this hot mess of a roster.

      lots of folks like the roster, lots of talent. Most folks that dont like the roster believe we should have probowlers at every position including backups

      I believe we should have a franchise QB in place before we spend like crazy.

      Great idea, lets just go pluck one from the QB tree.  Or, we could pick one up at the super market.

      Or the draft.

      Ok... Who?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      When the Bucs don't win the Super Bowl in 2014 I'm automatically right. The only reason not to have done it is because they're chasing the Lombardi in 2014 with this hot mess of a roster.

      lots of folks like the roster, lots of talent. Most folks that dont like the roster believe we should have probowlers at every position including backups

      I believe we should have a franchise QB in place before we spend like crazy.

      Great idea, lets just go pluck one from the QB tree.  Or, we could pick one up at the super market.

      Or the draft.

      Cant draft what isnt there. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      I believe we should have a franchise QB in place before we spend like crazy.

      so realistically, you would have skipped free agency this past year?

      Not skip it entirely. But wouldn't have signed guys to big contracts. We're not close to competing anytime soon, atleast not without hitting a HR at QB. And they didn't even take a swing.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Not skip it entirely. But wouldn't have signed guys to big contracts. We're not close to competing anytime soon, atleast not without hitting a HR at QB. And they didn't even take a swing.

      what do you consider competing? .500? Playoffs? Or a Super Bowl?And as asked, who were the franchise guys we should have built around. I'd consider the investment much more than a swing.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      I believe we should have a franchise QB in place before we spend like crazy.

      so realistically, you would have skipped free agency this past year?

      Not skip it entirely. But wouldn't have signed guys to big contracts. We're not close to competing anytime soon, atleast not without hitting a HR at QB. And they didn't even take a swing.

      The only big contract they signed was MJ...and according to you a pass rushing DE is one of the few positions that matter. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Not skip it entirely. But wouldn't have signed guys to big contracts. We're not close to competing anytime soon, atleast not without hitting a HR at QB. And they didn't even take a swing.

      what do you consider competing? .500? Playoffs? Or a Super Bowl?And as asked, who were the franchise guys we should have built around. I'd consider the investment much more than a swing.

      If you want a specific definition, I would saying making it to the second round of the playoffs. Manziel in the 1st or Garoppolo in the 2nd.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      If you want a specific definition, I would saying making it to the second round of the playoffs. Manziel in the 1st or Garoppolo in the 2nd.

      well at least we will get to see if you are right about manziel pretty soon. I asked about competing because so many have different definitions. I see winning a playoff game as being much more than just competitive.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      If you want a specific definition, I would saying making it to the second round of the playoffs. Manziel in the 1st or Garoppolo in the 2nd.

      well at least we will get to see if you are right about manziel pretty soon. I asked about competing because so many have different definitions. I see winning a playoff game as being much more than just competitive.

      Second round is top 25% of the league. That's a fair number for being competitive.And about Manziel, he went to a team that's going to increase his chances of busting. Garoppolo went to a team that will minimize his chance of failing.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      If you want a specific definition, I would saying making it to the second round of the playoffs. Manziel in the 1st or Garoppolo in the 2nd.

      well at least we will get to see if you are right about manziel pretty soon. I asked about competing because so many have different definitions. I see winning a playoff game as being much more than just competitive.

      Second round is top 25% of the league. That's a fair number for being competitive.And about Manziel, he went to a team that's going to increase his chances of busting. Garoppolo went to a team that will minimize his chance of failing.

      If you take the fan glasses off for a minute...the Bucs taking either would be increasing their chances of busting.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      And about Manziel, he went to a team that's going to increase his chances of busting. Garoppolo went to a team that will minimize his chance of failing.

      I think this is a key point on Manziel. I think his chances of being successful were generically pretty good, but that specific situation looks bleak.  On Garappolo, can you fail at clipboard holding?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Spider banana stole my thoughts!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      And about Manziel, he went to a team that's going to increase his chances of busting. Garoppolo went to a team that will minimize his chance of failing.

      I think this is a key point on Manziel. I think his chances of being successful were generically pretty good, but that specific situation looks bleak.  On Garappolo, can you fail at clipboard holding?

      Garoppolo is going to get the Rodgers/Steve Young treatment where he gets to sit behind a legend for 2-3 years.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      Spider banana stole my thoughts!

      Great minds think alike.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Drafting Brady’s heir apparent has been quite the curse. Might be 0-2 with manziel & garrapolo.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      And about Manziel, he went to a team that's going to increase his chances of busting. Garoppolo went to a team that will minimize his chance of failing.

      I think this is a key point on Manziel. I think his chances of being successful were generically pretty good, but that specific situation looks bleak.  On Garappolo, can you fail at clipboard holding?

      Garoppolo is going to get the Rodgers/Steve Young treatment where he gets to sit behind a legend for 2-3 years.

      How did that work out for Ryan Mallett, Kevin O'Connell, Matt Cassell, Cliff Kingsbury, and Rohan Davey?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Right, but those guys had Rodgers/Steve Young talent. Mallett is getting the same treatment right now, but I wouldn't bet he's all that good when he's let loose either. Sure, it beats throwing him to the wolves I guess, as he's got a lot of things to work on.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Mallet is still TBD. Other guys were later picks.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      So in 12 or so years the Patriots have not been able to develop the next Steve Young or Aaron Rodgers behind Brady, but now Garropolo is going to be different. Got it.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Mallet is still TBD. Other guys were later picks.

      Kevin O'Connell was a 3rd - a bit later in the 3rd (20 picks), but still a 3rd. Rohan Davey was a 4th (117).

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 905

      Jury is still out IMO.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Mallet is still TBD. Other guys were later picks.

      Kevin O'Connell was a 3rd - a bit later in the 3rd (20 picks), but still a 3rd. Rohan Davey was a 4th (117).

      Didn't realize O"Connell was that high. Still, all I said was that it increases your chances, not guarantees them.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      There are very few incubators of great QB play. Personally I think most of the Aaron Rodgers had to sit to succeed stuff is simply post hoc, ergo propter hoc. I’m sure sitting saved him from a rough rookie year, but would it have ruined him? I doubt it. Obviously there are coaches that can squeeze every ounce out of the QB they’ve got, but I don’t think they really turn good QBs into great QBs. Maybe Brees is an exception? It's nice to think you can plan to get a "franchise" QB but the reality is it's at least equal parts luck (right draft slot or ammo, right year), talent id (right guy), coaching (right system fit). And maybe that's downplaying how important luck is. The reality is that you build the best team you can with the resources you have. You find alternate routes to get to the big game. You don't wait to build a team when you get a franchise QB, or else you'll be out of job. We wouldn't have a SB if we had waited on a franchise QB.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      There are very few incubators of great QB play. Personally I think most of the Aaron Rodgers had to sit to succeed stuff is simply post hoc, ergo propter hoc. I'm sure sitting saved him from a rough rookie year, but would it have ruined him? I doubt it. Obviously there are coaches that can squeeze every ounce out of the QB they've got, but I don't think they really turn good QBs into great QBs. Maybe Brees is an exception? It's nice to think you can plan to get a "franchise" QB but the reality is it's at least equal parts luck (right draft slot or ammo, right year), talent id (right guy), coaching (right system fit). And maybe that's downplaying how important luck is. The reality is that you build the best team you can with the resources you have. You find alternate routes to get to the big game. You don't wait to build a team when you get a franchise QB, or else you'll be out of job. We wouldn't have a SB if we had waited on a franchise QB.

      You only have so many resources. We've burnt future cap room by signing all these free agents and being realistic, it's not going to win us anything. And not having a QB is why we only won one Super Bowl and not 3 or 4. Had they taken Pennington instead of trading the pick for Keyshawn or taken Brees instead of Kenyatta Walker, not only would we have won in 2002 but probably 2005 and 2008 too.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      There are very few incubators of great QB play. Personally I think most of the Aaron Rodgers had to sit to succeed stuff is simply post hoc, ergo propter hoc. I'm sure sitting saved him from a rough rookie year, but would it have ruined him? I doubt it. Obviously there are coaches that can squeeze every ounce out of the QB they've got, but I don't think they really turn good QBs into great QBs. Maybe Brees is an exception? It's nice to think you can plan to get a "franchise" QB but the reality is it's at least equal parts luck (right draft slot or ammo, right year), talent id (right guy), coaching (right system fit). And maybe that's downplaying how important luck is. The reality is that you build the best team you can with the resources you have. You find alternate routes to get to the big game. You don't wait to build a team when you get a franchise QB, or else you'll be out of job. We wouldn't have a SB if we had waited on a franchise QB.

      I disagree about Rodgers...he needed to fix his mechanics BIG TIME before he was ready and sitting allowed him to do just that.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      There are very few incubators of great QB play. Personally I think most of the Aaron Rodgers had to sit to succeed stuff is simply post hoc, ergo propter hoc. I'm sure sitting saved him from a rough rookie year, but would it have ruined him? I doubt it. Obviously there are coaches that can squeeze every ounce out of the QB they've got, but I don't think they really turn good QBs into great QBs. Maybe Brees is an exception? It's nice to think you can plan to get a "franchise" QB but the reality is it's at least equal parts luck (right draft slot or ammo, right year), talent id (right guy), coaching (right system fit). And maybe that's downplaying how important luck is. The reality is that you build the best team you can with the resources you have. You find alternate routes to get to the big game. You don't wait to build a team when you get a franchise QB, or else you'll be out of job. We wouldn't have a SB if we had waited on a franchise QB.

      You only have so many resources. We've burnt future cap room by signing all these free agents and being realistic, it's not going to win us anything. And not having a QB is why we only won one Super Bowl and not 3 or 4. Had they taken Pennington instead of trading the pick for Keyshawn or taken Brees instead of Kenyatta Walker, not only would we have won in 2002 but probably 2005 and 2008 too.

      What did Chad Pennington EVER do to make you think he was a super bowl caliber QB?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      There are very few incubators of great QB play. Personally I think most of the Aaron Rodgers had to sit to succeed stuff is simply post hoc, ergo propter hoc. I'm sure sitting saved him from a rough rookie year, but would it have ruined him? I doubt it. Obviously there are coaches that can squeeze every ounce out of the QB they've got, but I don't think they really turn good QBs into great QBs. Maybe Brees is an exception? It's nice to think you can plan to get a "franchise" QB but the reality is it's at least equal parts luck (right draft slot or ammo, right year), talent id (right guy), coaching (right system fit). And maybe that's downplaying how important luck is. The reality is that you build the best team you can with the resources you have. You find alternate routes to get to the big game. You don't wait to build a team when you get a franchise QB, or else you'll be out of job. We wouldn't have a SB if we had waited on a franchise QB.

      You only have so many resources. We've burnt future cap room by signing all these free agents and being realistic, it's not going to win us anything. And not having a QB is why we only won one Super Bowl and not 3 or 4. Had they taken Pennington instead of trading the pick for Keyshawn or taken Brees instead of Kenyatta Walker, not only would we have won in 2002 but probably 2005 and 2008 too.

      HOLY CRAP on a Cracker....did you really type that????Like I said...PR should you for the new levels of stupidity we see on a daily basis...

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      There are very few incubators of great QB play. Personally I think most of the Aaron Rodgers had to sit to succeed stuff is simply post hoc, ergo propter hoc. I'm sure sitting saved him from a rough rookie year, but would it have ruined him? I doubt it. Obviously there are coaches that can squeeze every ounce out of the QB they've got, but I don't think they really turn good QBs into great QBs. Maybe Brees is an exception? It's nice to think you can plan to get a "franchise" QB but the reality is it's at least equal parts luck (right draft slot or ammo, right year), talent id (right guy), coaching (right system fit). And maybe that's downplaying how important luck is. The reality is that you build the best team you can with the resources you have. You find alternate routes to get to the big game. You don't wait to build a team when you get a franchise QB, or else you'll be out of job. We wouldn't have a SB if we had waited on a franchise QB.

      You only have so many resources. We've burnt future cap room by signing all these free agents and being realistic, it's not going to win us anything. And not having a QB is why we only won one Super Bowl and not 3 or 4. Had they taken Pennington instead of trading the pick for Keyshawn or taken Brees instead of Kenyatta Walker, not only would we have won in 2002 but probably 2005 and 2008 too.

      What did Chad Pennington EVER do to make you think he was a super bowl caliber QB?

      2002Completion %Pennington: 69%Johnson: 62%YPAPennington: 7.8Johnson: 6.8TD/INT: Both had 22/6

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      There are very few incubators of great QB play. Personally I think most of the Aaron Rodgers had to sit to succeed stuff is simply post hoc, ergo propter hoc. I'm sure sitting saved him from a rough rookie year, but would it have ruined him? I doubt it. Obviously there are coaches that can squeeze every ounce out of the QB they've got, but I don't think they really turn good QBs into great QBs. Maybe Brees is an exception? It's nice to think you can plan to get a "franchise" QB but the reality is it's at least equal parts luck (right draft slot or ammo, right year), talent id (right guy), coaching (right system fit). And maybe that's downplaying how important luck is. The reality is that you build the best team you can with the resources you have. You find alternate routes to get to the big game. You don't wait to build a team when you get a franchise QB, or else you'll be out of job. We wouldn't have a SB if we had waited on a franchise QB.

      I disagree about Rodgers...he needed to fix his mechanics BIG TIME before he was ready and sitting allowed him to do just that.

      At the margins, sure. Did he have to sit 3 years to do that? I'm sure he'd have struggled in year 1 - like most rookies - but would it have prevented him from being great? As Tedford has pointed out in the past, he really didn't mess with Rodgers' mechanics because he did most things right. The only thing he really did that bothered Tedford was have this funny right elbow, but it didn't affect his ability to get it out quick, spin it, or be accurate. And that's all he needed in a college offense that emphasized quick throws.  McCarthy brought the right elbow down, but mechanically, that's about it. The rest of the Aaron Rodgers growth is simply getting stronger, reps, and just learning to play the game - things all QBs have to do.  It's not like he was Tebow. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      There are very few incubators of great QB play. Personally I think most of the Aaron Rodgers had to sit to succeed stuff is simply post hoc, ergo propter hoc. I'm sure sitting saved him from a rough rookie year, but would it have ruined him? I doubt it. Obviously there are coaches that can squeeze every ounce out of the QB they've got, but I don't think they really turn good QBs into great QBs. Maybe Brees is an exception? It's nice to think you can plan to get a "franchise" QB but the reality is it's at least equal parts luck (right draft slot or ammo, right year), talent id (right guy), coaching (right system fit). And maybe that's downplaying how important luck is. The reality is that you build the best team you can with the resources you have. You find alternate routes to get to the big game. You don't wait to build a team when you get a franchise QB, or else you'll be out of job. We wouldn't have a SB if we had waited on a franchise QB.

      You only have so many resources. We've burnt future cap room by signing all these free agents and being realistic, it's not going to win us anything. And not having a QB is why we only won one Super Bowl and not 3 or 4. Had they taken Pennington instead of trading the pick for Keyshawn or taken Brees instead of Kenyatta Walker, not only would we have won in 2002 but probably 2005 and 2008 too.

      What did Chad Pennington EVER do to make you think he was a super bowl caliber QB?

      2002Completion %Pennington: 69%Johnson: 62%YPAPennington: 7.8Johnson: 6.8TD/INT: Both had 22/6

      He had a good 2002...he had a poor 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010...but no, you dont cherry pick stats at all.  For a guy who slams McCoy for his lack of 4th Quarter production, you managed to pick a QB who 7 4th Quarter comebacks in a 10 year span. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      We’re talking about being the QB on this team in 2002. Funny how you left out 2008, when just an average QB would have had this team 14-2/13-3 with the #1 seed. 2005 he got hurt.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      There are very few incubators of great QB play. Personally I think most of the Aaron Rodgers had to sit to succeed stuff is simply post hoc, ergo propter hoc. I'm sure sitting saved him from a rough rookie year, but would it have ruined him? I doubt it. Obviously there are coaches that can squeeze every ounce out of the QB they've got, but I don't think they really turn good QBs into great QBs. Maybe Brees is an exception? It's nice to think you can plan to get a "franchise" QB but the reality is it's at least equal parts luck (right draft slot or ammo, right year), talent id (right guy), coaching (right system fit). And maybe that's downplaying how important luck is. The reality is that you build the best team you can with the resources you have. You find alternate routes to get to the big game. You don't wait to build a team when you get a franchise QB, or else you'll be out of job. We wouldn't have a SB if we had waited on a franchise QB.

      You only have so many resources. We've burnt future cap room by signing all these free agents and being realistic, it's not going to win us anything.

      Explain this - in what way has future spending has precluded us from drafting a "franchise" QB? Even assuming if a franchise QB became available next offseason - in trade or FA - we could afford that fairly easily. I can find $13 million + (with no dead money) just by cutting McCown and Goldson next year.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Spending in 2014 will not effect the drafting a QB (although I could argue that we’re going to be bad enough to miss the playoffs and good enough not to get a top pick, I’d rather just bottom out now and get a top pick). But it takes away from future cap space which will take away from the future quality of the team.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      We're talking about being the QB on this team in 2002. Funny how you left out 2008, when just an average QB would have had this team 14-2/13-3 with the #1 seed. 2005 he got hurt.

      I left 2008 out because he had a good year...2 good years in a 10 year career doesnt make you a good QB.  So this piss poor QB would have taken us from 9-7 to 14-2/13-3 in 2008?  You seriously need to stop doing drugs.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      You probably thought we were winning games because of Griese and Garcia.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      You probably thought we were winning games because of Griese and Garcia.

      Both of whom were much better than Chad Pennington. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      I wish Garcia and/or Griese stuck around one more year so we could have gone 0-16 in 2009 so you guys would finally realize they were both horrible players here.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      I wish Garcia and/or Griese stuck around one more year so we could have gone 0-16 in 2009 so you guys would finally realize they were both horrible players here.

      Well...I wish Josh Freeman paid more attention to the D.A.R.E. program growing up.  Looks like we are both disappointed.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Spending in 2014 will not effect the drafting a QB (although I could argue that we're going to be bad enough to miss the playoffs and good enough not to get a top pick, I'd rather just bottom out now and get a top pick). But it takes away from future cap space which will take away from the future quality of the team.

      Bottoming out gets you a "top pick" but it doesn't necessarily get you a "franchise" QB. We could have had the first pick in 3 of the 6 drafts and it likely wouldn't have given us a franchise QB. There are a lot of teams that bottom out. This "future cap space" and "future quality of the team" is just nonsense in a vacuum. It all depends on structure, where the dollars are spent, etc. There is a diminishing return to cap space.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      I wish Garcia and/or Griese stuck around one more year so we could have gone 0-16 in 2009 so you guys would finally realize they were both horrible players here.

      [img]https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRgxdJNGE5tZF0KfnAmefZXwCQiiCQF04atEniUpNy2CftXk9yW[/img]

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Spending in 2014 will not effect the drafting a QB (although I could argue that we're going to be bad enough to miss the playoffs and good enough not to get a top pick, I'd rather just bottom out now and get a top pick). But it takes away from future cap space which will take away from the future quality of the team.

      I jumped into the middle of this discussion, so I may be off base.But drafting a franchise QB would have zero effect on the cap, the way rooks are slotted now.  It would effect the cap big time after 4-5 years, assuming you were lucky enough to get a franchise QB with your early draft pick. Seattle is a good example. They pay Russell peanuts, but will need to open the bank account big time when they re-sign him.  But that hasn't stopped them from bringing in free agents and paying their current stars.  In any event, the cap will be going up every season for the foreseeable future anyway.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      Spending in 2014 will not effect the drafting a QB (although I could argue that we're going to be bad enough to miss the playoffs and good enough not to get a top pick, I'd rather just bottom out now and get a top pick). But it takes away from future cap space which will take away from the future quality of the team.

      I jumped into the middle of this discussion, so I may be off base.But drafting a franchise QB would have zero effect on the cap, the way rooks are slotted now.  It would effect the cap big time after 4-5 years, assuming you were lucky enough to get a franchise QB with your early draft pick. Seattle is a good example. They pay Russell peanuts, but will need to open the bank account big time when they re-sign him.  But that hasn't stopped them from bringing in free agents and paying their current stars.  In any event, the cap will be going up every season for the foreseeable future anyway.

      I'm p sure JC is still on his "bank 10's of millions in roll over cap space so we can outspend the rest of the league by 50% in 2018" plan.  So his wasted cap space in this scenario are the FA we signed this offseason that take us from horribad to meh (in his opinion).  It really sucks that I think I understand JC5100's positions.  I might need to come up for air. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Spending in 2014 will not effect the drafting a QB (although I could argue that we're going to be bad enough to miss the playoffs and good enough not to get a top pick, I'd rather just bottom out now and get a top pick). But it takes away from future cap space which will take away from the future quality of the team.

      I jumped into the middle of this discussion, so I may be off base.But drafting a franchise QB would have zero effect on the cap, the way rooks are slotted now.  It would effect the cap big time after 4-5 years, assuming you were lucky enough to get a franchise QB with your early draft pick. Seattle is a good example. They pay Russell peanuts, but will need to open the bank account big time when they re-sign him.  But that hasn't stopped them from bringing in free agents and paying their current stars.  In any event, the cap will be going up every season for the foreseeable future anyway.

      I'm p sure JC is still on his "bank 10's of millions in roll over cap space so we can outspend the rest of the league by 50% in 2018" plan.  So his wasted cap space in this scenario are the FA we signed this offseason that take us from horribad to meh (in his opinion).  It really sucks that I think I understand JC5100's positions.  I might need to come up for air.

      That's a cold dark world in the mind of an idiot.. Don't stay too long. Come back to us.JC is a lost cause.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I wish Garcia and/or Griese stuck around one more year so we could have gone 0-16 in 2009 so you guys would finally realize they were both horrible players here.

      Well...I wish Josh Freeman paid more attention to the D.A.R.E. program growing up.  Looks like we are both disappointed.

      LMFAO!

      Please wait…

Viewing 114 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.