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    • Matt Matera

      Keymaster
      Post count: 75

      What’s up, Pewter Nation! We are getting so close to the start of the season and it’s been great watching the Bucs in training camp this week. Nose tackle Vita Vea has been a dominant run-stopper early on in his career, and in order to take the next step as a top defensive lineman in the league, he’ll need to improve on his pass rushing skills.

      He’s focused on that in training camp by watching more film and taking advice from the coaches. Now that the club has finally come off his right hand, he can work on more of his techniques. Ali Marpet even called Vea a weapon in the pass rush, seeing a lot improvement in this area. While Vea normally takes on a lot of double teams, opposing offenses will most likely have their primary focus on Shaq Barrett, opening up some one-on-one opportunities for him. Vea had 3 sacks as a rookie and 2.5 last season, will he improve on those numbers this year? Would love to see your thoughts after reading this story.

    • Dy-nasty D

      Participant
      Post count: 268

      5 sacks

    • Drac

      Participant
      Post count: 6

      5 sacks would be very solid

    • Hockey Duckie

      Participant
      Post count: 1544

      3 sacks. Meh on the pass rushing last year and Suh was supposed to be an improvement over GMC. Suh and Vea combined for 5 sacks. GMC had 5 sacks alone last year for Carolina. If Vea is on the rise, then Suh is on the decline. So Vea will continue to get the double teams.

      If Vea is to improve his pass rushing, then Suh needs to be far more dominant. If Suh is the same as last year, then I don’t expect much pass rushing up the gut again.

    • RHBucsFan

      Participant
      Post count: 2018

      I’d rather he and Suh clog up the middle, shut down the run, and let Shaq and JPP rack up the sacks from the outside. Our front pressure is going to be ferocious this season!

    • buc-in-out

      Participant
      Post count: 499

      Vea and Suh control their gaps and eat up blockers so JPP and Shaq get 1v1 match ups. Thats where our pressure comes from. This isn’t a 4-3 defense anymore.

      If Vea can put up 5-6 sacks it means he’s having an All Pro season.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 445

      I say he gets to 7. But, that 7 is a very steady 7 and something we should expect for years to come. He’s a high pressure guy who stuffs the run. He’ll be an all-pro soon.

    • Trask Force

      Participant
      Post count: 4084

      7 Sacks and 3 TDs

    • TBChucky

      Participant
      Post count: 1540

      I can see 6 by the big fella. That’d be a breakout imo..

    • DEBUCSOWN

      Participant
      Post count: 3046

      3-4 DTs arent asked to pass rush. They are asked to free up others, as well as stop the run.

      I’d be happy with 4.

    • Buc on the Move

      Participant
      Post count: 1522

      I’ll play. I’ll take 5.5, and I’ll consider it good.

    • Lawdy

      Participant
      Post count: 849

    • FinkleisEinhorn

      Participant
      Post count: 69

      Not concerned with Vea’s sack numbers. There was nothing wrong with how our d-line operated last year, and when the secondary finally clicked we started to see something special.

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6485

      Out of all of the categories of evaluating Pass Rush, Sacks are the worst I think. Things like Pressure Rate, Pass Rush Win Rate, Pass Rush Productivity (a holistic measurement that weights everything) are by far better. And, most importantly, tape.

      Guys fall into heaps of Sacks all the time just do to some combination of (a) dumb luck, (b) players around them are moving the QB off of their spot or outright flushing the Qb to them, or (c) other guys are getting so much attention and this guy (getting Sacks) is getting 1v1s. That is JPP the last few years. In 2018 he had a very poor Pressure Rate of 8% and change and had 12.5 Sacks! That is not a good year!

      Are you consistently winning your 1v1s?

      Are you getting either 10+ % Pressure as an iDL or 12.5 % Pressure as an Edge player?

      Where are you ranked in Pass Rush Productivity?

      Most importantly, what does your tape look like?

      Vea was extremely productive last year in Pass Rush despite his 3 Sacks. Fletcher Cox and Geno Atkins had 5 and 4 Sacks respectively and both were lower than Vea in PRP last year because vea’s Pressure Rate was fantastic; a beefy 12.02 %. He was # 11 in the NFL in PRP of true iDLs.

      And Vea is doing this while he and Barrett are constantly getting double-teamed (there are a few guys above him who aren’t getting nearly the kind of attention that Vea is getting; Buckner, Hurst, Hargrave, Ioannidis).

      All of that being said, I expect his Sacks to go up for merely because I expect Shaq’s to come back to earth and JPP to lose a few and Vea to get 3ish of those (which he was on the verge of getting many times last year where either Barrett or JPP cleaned up right before Vea’s Sack…that is the flukiness of the Sack statistic, especially for iDL…it can be a race to the QB and you can lose by a 10th of a second because the QB flushes left or right and crumbling rather than getting squished by the iDL.

      He’ll get a few more, but that inflation will be irrelevant because they just would have gone to Barrett or a 2nd level blitz. I also expect his hand use to increase a little as the year wears on and for him to trigger a few more devastating immediate Pass Rush wins where the ball can’t come out (that is another one…he had a few occasions last year where he dominated the OG or C, or both, the ball just got out instantly on a throwaway).

    • Hockey Duckie

      Participant
      Post count: 1544

      FinkleisEinhorn wrote:

      Not concerned with Vea’s sack numbers. There was nothing wrong with how our d-line operated last year, and when the secondary finally clicked we started to see something special.

      Pass rush and secondary play are two different entities.

      Let’s just focus on the pass rush.

      Tampa Bay, 2019-20

        Sacks = 47 (7th most overall)
        Adjusted Sack Rate = 6.7% (20th efficient overall)

      There in lies the problem. Football Outsiders identifies that the Bucs defense is on passing defense often, but can’t close the deal as often.

      Tampa Bay, DL sacks 2019 (DL = NT and DT, 3 players per play)

        DT Vea = 2.5 sacks
        DT Suh = 2.5 sacks
        DT Gholston = 1 sack
        NT Allen = 0.5 sack

      2019 Total DL sack = 6.5, or 13.8% of the total sacks of 47 team sacks.

      Tampa Bay, DT sacks 2018 (DT = NT and 3-tech DT, 2 players per play)

        DT GMC = 6.0 sacks
        DT Vea = 3.0 sacks

      2018 Total DT sack = 9.0, or 23.7% of the total sacks of 38 team sacks.

      We need to improve both our DLine sack or intentional grounding and secondary pass protection.

    • Hockey Duckie

      Participant
      Post count: 1544

      @Nobody wrote:

      Vea was extremely productive last year in Pass Rush despite his 3 Sacks. Fletcher Cox and Geno Atkins had 5 and 4 Sacks respectively and both were lower than Vea in PRP last year because vea’s Pressure Rate was fantastic; a beefy 12.02 %. He was # 11 in the NFL in PRP of true iDLs.

      I’m viewing Vea as a package with Suh. If Vea is getting the double teams, then why is Suh putting up pedestrian sack numbers? Vea was shielded better with GMC than Suh. If Suh isn’t a threat, then the opposing OLine can continue to double Vea and just play 1v1 with Suh.

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6485

      @Hockey Duckie

      Suh’s Pressure Rate was an utterly meek 6.8 % last year.

      Overwhelmingly against single teams compared to Vea.

      On that same list of PRP, he’s # 38

      Suh hasn’t been difference-maker in Pass Rush since 2016. That was his last good year in Pass Rush (10 + % Pressure Rate, # 12 PRP, solid tape; overwhelmingly Bull Rush > Stack > Shed…he’s never developed an actual rush suite). He’s never been great, but he’s been productive…but that was a long time ago.

      Hence why I wasn’t pleased when we poured all of that money into him this offseason (and when we haven’t drafted iDL the last few years).

    • seekpar

      Participant
      Post count: 1283

      4.5

    • blah

      Participant
      Post count: 420

      im going with 7.5 fuck it

    • Barnz1

      Participant
      Post count: 335

      Sacks are overrated, especially as a NT taking on double teams. If he does more of what’s stated below then expect others to continue to take advantage.

      “Vita Vea was among the best at pressuring the QB from his position last season.

      His 56 total pressures ranked as the 6th most among all interior defensive lineman”

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