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    • Hockey Duckie

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      Post count: 1493

      Pewter Report had a wonderful article about the talent Wirfs may be facing: link

      Seeing that list is scary. Oh boy, do I feel for rookie Wirfs. So many edges will be watching a lot of film on Wirfs and notice his weaknesses. Hopefully, he won’t cheat and over-commit against speedsters he’ll be facing.

    • Biggs3535

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      Post count: 6424

      For some context, the worst OL in the league last year gave up 13 sacks. So Wirfs better not sniff 10 sacks – especially with Brady playing QB.

    • Lawdy

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      Post count: 782

      goose egg

    • Mic

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      Post count: 1862

      Brady’s a hard guy to sack he gets the ball out too quick

    • DEBUCSOWN

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      Post count: 2748

      “Brady’s a hard guy to sack he gets the ball out too quick”

      Usually true, but with arians slow developing downfield system that worries me a bit.

      Obviously he’ll listen to bradys input & adapt, but any 5-7 step drops will scare the shit out of me more often then not.

      if Brady goes down early(god forbid), tank for Trevor time lol.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 750

      “Brady’s a hard guy to sack he gets the ball out too quick”

      Usually true, but with arians slow developing downfield system that worries me a bit.

      Obviously he’ll listen to bradys input & adapt, but any 5-7 step drops will scare the shit out of me more often then not.

      if Brady goes down early(god forbid), tank for Trevor time lol.

      Yep. Coupled with Brady really starting to slow down last season. He’s going to get sacked quite a bit in 2020. We need to get used to this.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2507

      You need to get used to Jameis being a bust and not so jaded about it, fanboy loser. You are effeminate as Hell…man crushing that hard over a bust of a QB…must be a physical attraction…just come out and admit it. We don’t care. But it clearly has affected your thinking, fanboy.

      “Brady’s a hard guy to sack he gets the ball out too quick”

      Usually true, but with arians slow developing downfield system that worries me a bit.

      Obviously he’ll listen to bradys input & adapt, but any 5-7 step drops will scare the shit out of me more often then not.

      if Brady goes down early(god forbid), tank for Trevor time lol.

      Yep. Coupled with Brady really starting to slow down last season. He’s going to get sacked quite a bit in 2020. We need to get used to this.

    • buc-in-out

      Participant
      Post count: 454

      Brady’s release is lightning quick, and his pre-snap knowledge consistently make his Oline look better then they actually are.

      I’m not overly worried about Old Tom back there. Our Oline was decent last year.

    • TBayXXXVII

      Participant
      Post count: 2082

      “Brady’s a hard guy to sack he gets the ball out too quick”

      Usually true, but with arians slow developing downfield system that worries me a bit.

      Obviously he’ll listen to bradys input & adapt, but any 5-7 step drops will scare the shit out of me more often then not.

      if Brady goes down early(god forbid), tank for Trevor time lol.

      Over the last 4 years, Winston had more time to throw the ball than Brady did (each year), yet, Winston was sacked 44 times more than Brady (142 to 98).

      For anyone out there who wants to pretend that it’s because Winston threw the ball more? Wrong. Winston had 2,013 attempts and Brady had 2,196.

      Last year, where apparently some thinks he “slowed down” and that he’s “too old”, Brady was sacked 27 times while holding the ball an average of 2.75 seconds, with 613 pass attempts. Yet, Winston was sacked 41 times while holding the ball for an average of 2.77 seconds on 626 attempts.

      Brady will be fine. Apparently 43 year old Brady is still better than 25 year old Winston.

    • BucBalla85

      Participant
      Post count: 2257

      “Brady’s a hard guy to sack he gets the ball out too quick”

      Usually true, but with arians slow developing downfield system that worries me a bit.

      Obviously he’ll listen to bradys input & adapt, but any 5-7 step drops will scare the shit out of me more often then not.

      if Brady goes down early(god forbid), tank for Trevor time lol.

      Over the last 4 years, Winston had more time to throw the ball than Brady did (each year), yet, Winston was sacked 44 times more than Brady (142 to 98).

      For anyone out there who wants to pretend that it’s because Winston threw the ball more? Wrong. Winston had 2,013 attempts and Brady had 2,196.

      Last year, where apparently some thinks he “slowed down” and that he’s “too old”, Brady was sacked 27 times while holding the ball an average of 2.75 seconds, with 613 pass attempts. Yet, Winston was sacked 41 times while holding the ball for an average of 2.77 seconds on 626 attempts.

      Brady will be fine. Apparently 43 year old Brady is still better than 25 year old Winston.

      Who would have thought..?

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6424

      Over the last 4 years, Winston had more time to throw the ball than Brady did (each year), yet, Winston was sacked 44 times more than Brady (142 to 98).

      For anyone out there who wants to pretend that it’s because Winston threw the ball more? Wrong. Winston had 2,013 attempts and Brady had 2,196

      The Patriots quick-pass scheme, while Winston liked to hang onto the ball, is definitely a factor in that as well.

      Winston’s pocket-presence was one of his better qualities. But he ain’t Tom Brady. Brady will see and know when to get rid of the ball quickly before the ball is ever snapped. This will help Wirfs and all of the other OL immensely.

    • TBChucky

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      Post count: 1445

      You need to get used to Jameis being a bust and not so jaded about it, fanboy loser. You are effeminate as Hell…man crushing that hard over a bust of a QB…must be a physical attraction…just come out and admit it. We don’t care. But it clearly has affected your thinking, fanboy.

      “Brady’s a hard guy to sack he gets the ball out too quick”

      Usually true, but with arians slow developing downfield system that worries me a bit.

      Obviously he’ll listen to bradys input & adapt, but any 5-7 step drops will scare the shit out of me more often then not.

      if Brady goes down early(god forbid), tank for Trevor time lol.

      Yep. Coupled with Brady really starting to slow down last season. He’s going to get sacked quite a bit in 2020. We need to get used to this.

      He’ll definitely get sacked more than Jameis this season.. You know, since Brady will be playing.. It’s weird..

      • RW

        Participant
        Post count: 302

        I love “experts” like this!

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2507

      Lol!!!

      You need to get used to Jameis being a bust and not so jaded about it, fanboy loser. You are effeminate as Hell…man crushing that hard over a bust of a QB…must be a physical attraction…just come out and admit it. We don’t care. But it clearly has affected your thinking, fanboy.

      “Brady’s a hard guy to sack he gets the ball out too quick”

      Usually true, but with arians slow developing downfield system that worries me a bit.

      Obviously he’ll listen to bradys input & adapt, but any 5-7 step drops will scare the shit out of me more often then not.

      if Brady goes down early(god forbid), tank for Trevor time lol.

      Yep. Coupled with Brady really starting to slow down last season. He’s going to get sacked quite a bit in 2020. We need to get used to this.

      He’ll definitely get sacked more than Jameis this season.. You know, since Brady will be playing.. It’s weird..

    • Hockey Duckie

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      Post count: 1493

      @TBayXXXII wrote:

      Last year, where apparently some thinks he “slowed down” and that he’s “too old”, Brady was sacked 27 times while holding the ball an average of 2.75 seconds, with 613 pass attempts. Yet, Winston was sacked 41 times while holding the ball for an average of 2.77 seconds on 626 attempts.

      Brady will be fine. Apparently 43 year old Brady is still better than 25 year old Winston.

      Winston was sacked 47 times last year. I doubled checked this as Pro Football Reference and ESPN stats support that. :)

    • TBayXXXVII

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      Post count: 2082

      Over the last 4 years, Winston had more time to throw the ball than Brady did (each year), yet, Winston was sacked 44 times more than Brady (142 to 98).

      For anyone out there who wants to pretend that it’s because Winston threw the ball more? Wrong. Winston had 2,013 attempts and Brady had 2,196

      The Patriots quick-pass scheme, while Winston liked to hang onto the ball, is definitely a factor in that as well.

      Winston’s pocket-presence was one of his better qualities. But he ain’t Tom Brady. Brady will see and know when to get rid of the ball quickly before the ball is ever snapped. This will help Wirfs and all of the other OL immensely.

      Winston’s fatal flaw is that he’s not just a bad decision maker, he’s tragically terrible. As you said, pre-snap, Brady knows where the ball is going to go. He won’t need the same amount of time that Winston did. He will not only make the OLine better, but his skill position players as well. I stand by my prediction that, pending they have the season, this will be one of the 10 most productive offensives in NFL history.

      Brady will make sure that not only Wiffs, but every other OLineman knows what’s going on and when. He knows how to lead. Every player will be better because of him… not just Brady’s play, but his knowledge. There’s a 0% chance Wiffs gives up 6 to 10 sacks (or more this year).

    • leeroybuc93

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      Post count: 1378

      Sorry to derail the topic back on track, but I imagine Wirfs will get his ass handed to him a few times this year. I’m not knocking his talent or long term outlook, but this will probably be the worst year in history for rookies. I don’t think it will be bad enough to derail the season or anything. We have great blocking tight ends that can help him out. I just think it might be a little bit of an ugly learning curve for him.

    • nybuccguy

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      Post count: 631

      Auclair and Gronk will have to bail out Wirfs often, leaving Smith exposed. Wirfs might be good long term, but anyone expecting a high level of play from a rookie is delusional.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2507

      Smith may not suit up. Thus, send swords to the left. He seems like he would be a good fit there.

      Auclair and Gronk will have to bail out Wirfs often, leaving Smith exposed. Wirfs might be good long term, but anyone expecting a high level of play from a rookie is delusional.

    • Hockey Duckie

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      Post count: 1493

      @leeroybuc93 wrote:

      Sorry to derail the topic back on track, but I imagine Wirfs will get his ass handed to him a few times this year. I’m not knocking his talent or long term outlook, but this will probably be the worst year in history for rookies. I don’t think it will be bad enough to derail the season or anything. We have great blocking tight ends that can help him out. I just think it might be a little bit of an ugly learning curve for him.

      Yup! There’s a reason Wirfs went in the top-15, but also there’s a reason why he was the fourth OT selected.

      We have no idea how well Wirfs can adapt since there are no preseason games either. And if Smith opts out, then Wirfs will swap to the left side? ::: shudders ::: Dunno if I’m afraid of Wirfs on the left side or seeing Haeg start on the right side.

    • Barnz1

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      Post count: 335

      Smith is not opting out and forgoing 14.5mil for a season. Pretty sure he’s already turned up to camp for testing.

      Wirfs will have his struggles for sure but he was still one of top pass blockers in his class. He had rapid progression and barely gave up any pressure in his last season. And he’s a mauler in the run game.

      I will say he will give up 4-5 sacks but with less pressures and less penalties than we received from the right side last season.

    • Barnz1

      Participant
      Post count: 335

      “Brady’s a hard guy to sack he gets the ball out too quick”

      Usually true, but with arians slow developing downfield system that worries me a bit.

      Obviously he’ll listen to bradys input & adapt, but any 5-7 step drops will scare the shit out of me more often then not.

      if Brady goes down early(god forbid), tank for Trevor time lol.

      Over the last 4 years, Winston had more time to throw the ball than Brady did (each year), yet, Winston was sacked 44 times more than Brady (142 to 98).

      For anyone out there who wants to pretend that it’s because Winston threw the ball more? Wrong. Winston had 2,013 attempts and Brady had 2,196.

      Last year, where apparently some thinks he “slowed down” and that he’s “too old”, Brady was sacked 27 times while holding the ball an average of 2.75 seconds, with 613 pass attempts. Yet, Winston was sacked 41 times while holding the ball for an average of 2.77 seconds on 626 attempts.

      Brady will be fine. Apparently 43 year old Brady is still better than 25 year old Winston.

      Who would have thought..?

      I agree. Winston is horrible at knowing when and what direction to climb the pocket in. Brady’s biggest strength is is feeling that pressure and avoiding it. These thoughts are backed up in this PFF article:

      Watson is the poster boy for quarterbacks who invite pressure on themselves. The Texans’ offensive line was actually much improved in pass protection during the 2019 season, but Watson tied for the league lead in pressures attributed directly to the quarterback for holding onto the football too long.

      Player Pressures responsible for
      Deshaun Watson 44
      Jacoby Brissett 44
      Kyler Murray 42
      Jameis Winston 35
      Russell Wilson 35

      https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-quarterbacks-pressure-2019-season

    • seekpar

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      Post count: 1040

      Agree that pocket presence was one of Aimless Lameis Jameis’ better qualities, but that just gave him more time to find the other teams’ DBs or LBs.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2507

      I laughed!

      Agree that pocket presence was one of Aimless Lameis Jameis’ better qualities, but that just gave him more time to find the other teams’ DBs or LBs.

    • Biggs3535

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      Post count: 6424

      Auclair and Gronk will have to bail out Wirfs often, leaving Smith exposed. Wirfs might be good long term, but anyone expecting a high level of play from a rookie is delusional.

      FTR, I’m not really expecting a high level of play from Wirfs. He may get beat and give up a fair amount of QBP’s. But I doubt that will result in more than five or six sacks, because of who is playing QB.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 750

      @leeroybuc93 wrote:

      Sorry to derail the topic back on track, but I imagine Wirfs will get his ass handed to him a few times this year. I’m not knocking his talent or long term outlook, but this will probably be the worst year in history for rookies. I don’t think it will be bad enough to derail the season or anything. We have great blocking tight ends that can help him out. I just think it might be a little bit of an ugly learning curve for him.

      Yup! There’s a reason Wirfs went in the top-15, but also there’s a reason why he was the fourth OT selected.

      We have no idea how well Wirfs can adapt since there are no preseason games either. And if Smith opts out, then Wirfs will swap to the left side? ::: shudders ::: Dunno if I’m afraid of Wirfs on the left side or seeing Haeg start on the right side.

      DIck bag Licht was doing everything possible to move up and grab Wirfs, and fortunately no one would bite, and he landed in our lap. Dude is inept.

    • Hockey Duckie

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      Post count: 1493

      @deflategatesteve wrote:

      DIck bag Licht was doing everything possible to move up and grab Wirfs, and fortunately no one would bite, and he landed in our lap. Dude is inept.

      You know Licht did trade up for Wirfs, right? He jumped up one spot. I wished Wirfs landed in our lap, but he didn’t. He cost us a 4th round pick. Then we could have drafted another OL in the 3rd and then drafted RB Vaughn in the 4th round.

    • Hockey Duckie

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      Post count: 1493

      Stumbled upon this tidbit about a Falcon’s rookie RT recently: Kaleb McGary

      He allowed 13 sacks last year! McGary was a late 1st round selection. Just putting that out there.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 750

      Brady isn’t going to just step back and throw. That isn’t Arians offense. We are going to struggle to find our rhythm early in the season. Not great.

    • Hockey Duckie

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      Post count: 1493

      It’s a fortuitous thing that Brady has been holding his own camp before the official camp while digesting the new playbook and terminology. In fact, HC Arians praised Brady for it.

    • Hockey Duckie

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      Post count: 1493

      Since Pewter Report regurgitated an article about Wirfs, I thought it would be good to re-visit this thread in light of the training camp report that Wirfs has struggled a bit.

    • Roy

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      Post count: 4050

      When PR wrote the article about who’s hot and who’s not, I found it interesting that Wirfs was not mentioned in that article for either category. If he’s not catching on he’ll stick out like a sore thumb because he’s supposed to be starting. If he is catching on everyone would want to know that. Perhaps PR was trying not to trash the guy when he’s playing a position that takes time to master. Most tackles struggle a bit early on. Just because the Bucs need a RT right now doesn’t mean Wirfs is going to be ready right now, particularly for “Murderer’s Row.”

      And what about Haeg? We haven’t heard much about him either.

    • Hockey Duckie

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      Post count: 1493

      @Roy,

      Yeah, I read that article too, but I found it funny that LVD was on the “not so hot” list because he wasn’t being dynamic in practice. I don’t understand that, tbh.

      There is a recent article on PR with Arians saying Wirfs is ‘on schedule’ and has looked solid in camp. I don’t know if I agree with that since PR has shown Wirfs struggling a bit.

      I’m more anxious the closer we get to the regular season games with Wirfs.

    • Born A Buc For Life

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      Post count: 36

      Maybe two sacks. He is a rookie, but by the end of the season, he will be a dominate blocker who will be hell on the second level in run blocking. He has one of the better coaching staffs in the NFL and Brady. He has all the physical and mental tools to do this job. That’s why he was picked so high by a very competent group of men.

      Now go worry about something that matters.

      • Born A Buc For Life

        Participant
        Post count: 36

        Told you so.

      • Anonymous

        Inactive
        Post count: 113

        Nyaaa, so there!

        Seriously tho, he turned out to be the best of the 4 OTs, can’t ask for more even tho it cost a 4th to move up.

        Problem is, this line will need 1 or 2 late round/ UFA (or cheap FA) starters due to cap.

    • Hockey Duckie

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      Post count: 1493

      Maybe two sacks. He is a rookie, but by the end of the season, he will be a dominate blocker who will be hell on the second level in run blocking. He has one of the better coaching staffs in the NFL and Brady. He has all the physical and mental tools to do this job. That’s why he was picked so high by a very competent group of men.

      Now go worry about something that matters.

        VH3 was selected high in the draft. How did that work out?
        K Aguayo was selected relatively high for a kicker and in the draft. How did that work out?
        CB MJ Stewart was selected before CB Carlton Davis. How did that work out?

      When Donovan Smith started his rookie year, he was playing next to LG Logan Mankins, who was in great shape that season. Wirfs is playing next to RG Alex Cappa. And if you watched Brett Kollman’s video scouting review of Wills v Wirfs, I get a bit anxious if Wirfs starts to overcompensate against speed rushers.

      I’m hoping for the best for Wirfs, but I also know he’s a rookie with some large flaws. Can our coaches help Wirfs develop? No idea. I do know Brady can help mask Wirfs’ deficiencies by getting rid of the ball faster than Winston did.

    • ratiffshabang

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      Post count: 238

      This kind of sounds like the typical “I didnt like that draft pick” so we need him to struggle, to prove “we were right”. Wirfs is incredibly talented and was very well coached. I have no doubt that he is going to be a very good OT for years to come. Do I think this will be a very difficult year for any rookie OT, YES bc they aren’t getting a full training camp nor preseason. However, if there was any rookie OT that is ready to overcome it, its Tristan Wirfs.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2507

      I’ve heard a coach remark that he has t heard anything (negative) about Wirfs. He’s having a decent camp.

      He blew up Whitehead on a screen to Gronk today, from what I’ve read.

    • Buc on the Move

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      Post count: 1522

      I’m not worried about him blowing up safeties on screens, I want him to keep Brady upright against the likes of Cam Jordan, totally different scenario.

    • Hockey Duckie

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      Post count: 1493

      Pewter Report reported Wirfs struggled earlier in camp, included a tweet-vid of Wirfs getting hung up on the push block apparatus.

      It’s a good thing to be skeptical of all prospects because the draft is a gamble. What’s his floor and we know kinda what to expect. If we see this, then the coaches see this and will add extra help on his side.

    • Barnz1

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      Post count: 335

      Pewter Report reported Wirfs struggled earlier in camp, included a tweet-vid of Wirfs getting hung up on the push block apparatus.

      It’s a good thing to be skeptical of all prospects because the draft is a gamble. What’s his floor and we know kinda what to expect. If we see this, then the coaches see this and will add extra help on his side.

      Do people seriously take note of Pewter articles? A lot of them are click bait nonsense.

      They immediately wrote a negative article on Wirfs “struggling” based off a 5 second video clip and only after one or two days of camp. And if you watch the video clip it was actually Donovan Smith stuffing up the drill and not Wirfs fault.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2507

      PR has been soft lately. And they cannot handle the attacks on their own message board so they don’t post because their two cents get treated as such. Pathetic reporting.

      Pewter Report reported Wirfs struggled earlier in camp, included a tweet-vid of Wirfs getting hung up on the push block apparatus.

      It’s a good thing to be skeptical of all prospects because the draft is a gamble. What’s his floor and we know kinda what to expect. If we see this, then the coaches see this and will add extra help on his side.

      Do people seriously take note of Pewter articles? A lot of them are click bait nonsense.

      They immediately wrote a negative article on Wirfs “struggling” based off a 5 second video clip and only after one or two days of camp. And if you watch the video clip it was actually Donovan Smith stuffing up the drill and not Wirfs fault.

    • Barnz1

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      Post count: 335

      None!

    • buc_boi

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      “This kind of sounds like the typical “I didnt like that draft pick” so we need him to struggle, to prove “we were right”

      This

    • Biggs3535

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      Post count: 6424

      Nice bump. It would be nice if this piece of shit message board showed the original poll.

      I had 0-5. Not because I expected Wirfs to perform as well as he did, but because of the QB. I liked the pick, but I think it’s fair to say Wirfs far exceeded most people’s expectations.

    • TBChucky

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      Post count: 1445

      Indeed.. Wirfs and Winfield have helped transform this team! Helluva draft!

    • Hockey Duckie

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      Post count: 1493

      I gotta give our OLine coach a lot of credit. Wirfs has tape on him in college to where he was abused because he relied on his athleticism too much than technique. That’s what I hoped the coaches would prevent him from overcommitting to be exposed. Great job on the coaches and great job on Wirfs being coachable!

      • RW

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        Post count: 302

        I can’t believe you showed back up in this thread with all your negative hot takes on Wirfs! His performance was not all coaching!

    • ABuccsFan

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      Post count: 385

      Participant

      Jul. 30, 2020 at 7:58 pm

      Post count: 627

      #1298124

      Auclair and Gronk will have to bail out Wirfs often, leaving Smith exposed. Wirfs might be good long term, but anyone expecting a high level of play from a rookie is delusional.

      +3

      -2

      Rating: +1. From 5 votes.

      You voted -1, 1 second ago.

      Thanks for your vote!

      Who is delusional? You were a “legend” on the bucs.com board……but that place was a cesspool. 😁

      “For a brief, shining moment in history a select breed truly lived free.”…….Unkown

    • ABuccsFan

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      Post count: 385

      Participant

      Jan. 28, 2021 at 3:07 pm

      Post count: 1324

      #1351944

      REPLY |

      I gotta give our OLine coach a lot of credit. Wirfs has tape on him in college to where he was abused because he relied on his athleticism too much than technique. That’s what I hoped the coaches would prevent him from overcommitting to be exposed. Great job on the coaches and great job on Wirfs being coachable!

      Rate this item:Thumb UpThumb DownSubmit Rating

      +2

      -2

      Rating: 0. From 4 votes.

      Someday you’ll finally stare at yourself in a mirror, for about 10 seconds and say, “You really are an f’ng idiot. You are not an NFL GM or scout. You are a fan. Stop being an ass.”

      Jason Licht built a SuperBowl roster.

      “For a brief, shining moment in history a select breed truly lived free.”…….Unkown

    • ratiffshabang

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      Post count: 238

      Wirfs was extremely well coached at Iowa. They churn out great lineman year after year, under the great coach Ferentz. He was my biggest want for the Bucs since his freshman year..you could tell he was going to be special. Most people on this board had him as their personal 4th best OT in the draft, he was far and away #1 from what I saw in college. He has had a fantastic rookie year, even surpassed my extremely high expectations. He’s going to be a perennial Pro Bowler, the sky is the limit for this young man

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