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    • Boid Fink

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      Post count: 1421

      I said they would tag Godwin. I think most felt that way.

      Maybe they have a handshake agreement that they would offer Shaq a multi-year deal so he wouldn’t have to worry about his future. They didn’t tag him because they wanted to give him that long term contract that he rightfully earned.

      Maybe it was respect.

      But if they were willing to let him negotiate because they were worried about their cap space and what others may offer, they may have shut themselves in the foot.

      Shaq is a helluva player. Hopefully there was a respect with the team management towards their client, he wouldn’t have to worry about signing another franchise tag deal…we got you.

      I just want to see this defense intact and go at it again, I think they will be even better. Draft some rookies to shore up for injuries and let it roll.

    • m_j

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      Post count: 556

      yepp, may be anything you mentioned, I was wondering as well

      if they sign him in next days we might find it out. he definitely earned big money on the field and he should get it.

    • DEBUCSOWN

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      Post count: 2820

      Perhaps would’ve disgruntled him.

      A lot of $? 2 years in a row? Sure.

      He wants long term security.

      Also based on age godwin was the safer option.

      I love shaq dont get me wrong, but hes already 28. 29 in November.

      Committing to him beyond 3 or 4 years would be a mistake.

      I’m all for bringing him back, but not for more then 16-18 mil aav.

      Hes elite at generating pressure. Different guy when vea + suh aren’t eating up 3 even 4 blockers.

      Also worth noting JPP stated himself hes been playing at 70% last 2 years. Finally having surgery.

      I wouldn’t be shocked it JPP plays at a level similar to shaq regardless where he plays in 2021.

    • JC5100

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      Post count: 3273

      Hopefully they’ve analyzed pass rush contracts over the last 20 years and realize he would be a bad investment.

      Give me Derek Barnett, Leonard Floyd or Romeo Okwara on 1 year deals

    • seekpar

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      Post count: 1118

      Because they tagged Godwin…

    • BucWonder

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      Post count: 183

      It could be that tagging Shaq would not have saved cap $ as his tag price of 18mil was about the same as his market value. With Godwin, his tag price of 16mil was about 4 mil below his market value thus saving 4mil in cap space. I doubt that Godwin ever goes anywhere else. He’ll get a long term contract here at some point. Bucs still have until mid July to do that even with the tag.

    • m_j

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      Post count: 556

      4 years contract with value of 2.5 years guaranteed is usual, should work with shaq as well

    • Roy

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      Post count: 4083

      Maybe they didn’t tag Shaq because they just don’t want to pay him $20 mil, and if that’s the reason then it doesn’t bode well for the contract negotiations going on. No matter how you want to spread the money around, $20 mil is $20 mil and if you don’t want to pay it you can’t pay it. Somebody else probably will, but you may have to let Shaq shop around and see what happens.

    • Bucko40

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      Post count: 226

      The cost of a second year tag on Shaq would’ve between 22-23 million. The tag escalates when used in consecutive years.

    • BuccaNOLEer

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      Post count: 1046

      It is entirely possible that they showed him respect by not tagging him multiple times, instead letting him make the decision to stay in Tampa or test the waters.

      I wouldn’t mind paying him an average of $16 -$18 million per year as long as he would accept a lower base salary in 2021. But like someone else said, signing him to anything bigger than four years is a huge mistake considering he is in his late 20s.

      Also, signing him doesn’t negate the fact that we need to draft an edge rusher early. JPP is 32 years old and who knows how long he will be able to go. Time to start grooming his replacement.

    • BucBalla85

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      Post count: 2287

      I think Shaq is the priority now. Get back Shaq, Godwin, and LVD then I think those guys give us the best shot at a repeat. Can replace guys like Fournette, Gronk, and even Suh. However I think we could bring back 2 of those guys too.

    • Boid Fink

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      Post count: 1421

      Fournette is done as a Buc. He will chase his coin now.

    • Barnz1

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      Post count: 335

      If Shaq is not back with this team next season then management fucked up. Simple as that. He has more pressures the last 2 seasons than anyone in the NFL besides Aaron Donald. Think about that.

      He is way more important than Godwin to team success because he is way harder to replace. I would’ve paid him 10/10 times over Godwin. He is also more important than a 32 year old off the ball LBer as much as we love David.

      If they try to replace him with a cheaper option then roll into season with that worse option + a likely regressing JPP then we aren’t winning a SB again. I honestly think they already fucked up you if let a guy like Shaq hit FA he is unlikely to be back.

    • Boid Fink

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      Post count: 1421

      Agree with barnz.

      I feel management may have either a ha dshake deal with Shaq, as far as giving them time to fairly negotiate his deal and fit it under the cap. I also feel if he hits FA and gathers suitors, the Bucs will be decently outbid and Shaq will chase his money.

      I would hate to see him go to Cleveland. I mean…really hate the idea of him going anywhere.

      You’re right, the defense with a cheap alternative and an old JPP is not a plan for a repeat. Pass rush wins games.

    • JC5100

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      Post count: 3273

      Boid you need to prepare yourself. Joel Corry has him at 5 years, $110M, $68M guaranteed. That’s a terrible contract for the team. In 15 starts in non-contract seasons he had 6.5 sacks. He’s not that dude. He’s going to be a 5-7 sack guy once he gets paid and whoever signs him will end up cutting him.

      Leonard Floyd and Derek Barnett have better skill sets. Derek Barnett is the guy we need to trade for. 1 year left at $10M, he’ll go get 15 sacks in Shaq’s role.

    • Boid Fink

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      Post count: 1421

      In non-contract years he was fighting to make a roster and he had to earn a spot behind Von Miller who won the DMVP, and has said that all Shaq needed was PT.

      When he came in off the bench for Denver he didn’t get tons of minutes but he put in amazing tape. Go watch it and then come back and sit down.

      Shaq isn’t going to stop hustling. You’re a bad judge of football players, and their drive.

      • JC5100

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        Post count: 3273

        Boid I just gave you his 15 starts in Denver. 6.5 sacks. You don’t like data. Instead you want to believe Shaq Barrett is a unicorn.

    • Boid Fink

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      Post count: 1421

      Dude you gave me 15 starts in 5 seasons.

      GTFO.

      His numbers don’t lie. He is more than just a pure pass rusher. Look at his tape. He covered flats. He tackles runners off the edge quickly. He was a good player.

      I gave you his true stats you give me some mental gymnastics bullshit trying to constantly bring in your old stats from a decade ago, and with no insight into the actual situation. Watch more, put the paper stats down, and get real.

      • DEBUCSOWN

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        Post count: 2820

        15 starts im 5 seasons.

        Due to von miller? And?

        “Hes a late bloomer”

        Sure, I’ll give him that.

        Hes not some generational talent.

        If he was he wouldn’t have been on the bench damn near 5 years.

        Again. 16-18 aav, sign me up.

        If someone throws him 22+, so be it. Won’t get it from tampa. At least I hope not.

      • JC5100

        Participant
        Post count: 3273

        If you think my theory on contract year pass rushers in “mental gymnastics bullshit” then explain these three things.

        I’ll use these two examples because they’re Buccaneers.
        1. What happened to Marcus Jones from 2000 to 2001-2002

        2. What happened to Michael Johnson?

        3. Why did Barrett only have 1.5 sacks while playing 400+ defensive snaps in 2016?

    • Roy

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      Post count: 4083

      He’s going to be testing the market, or already has. He’s an unrestricted free agent. That means the Bucs have to outbid 31 other teams, or at least be in the ballpark of the highest bidder. That means $20 mil per year for four years at the minimum. That just throws all the other contracts which need to be done present and future out of whack. He is good at his job, don’t get me wrong. But guys like Vita Vea and Devin White are more important to this defense. I just think you let him go and even if you get another free agent for $10 or $12 mil you are saving a lot of money which can go to other free agents. Bottom line is I don’t think Shaq is worth $20 mil for four years.

    • Roy

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      Post count: 4083

      He’s going to be testing the market, or already has. He’s an unrestricted free agent. That means the Bucs have to outbid 31 other teams, or at least be in the ballpark of the highest bidder. That means $20 mil per year for four years at the minimum. That just throws all the other contracts which need to be done present and future out of whack. He is good at his job, don’t get me wrong. But guys like Vita Vea and Devin White are more important to this defense. I just think you let him go and even if you get another free agent for $10 or $12 mil you are saving a lot of money which can go to other free agents. Bottom line is I don’t think Shaq is worth $20 mil for four years.

      And I can pretty much guarantee you that Licht is already sending out the feelers for what other FA edge players are available.

    • BucBalla85

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      Post count: 2287

      I might be wrong about this but doesn’t he have the most qb pressures in the last two seasons? Hard to argue with that.

    • Boid Fink

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      Post count: 1421

      He does. He gendered the most pressures the last two years. And he covered more than usual this year, as well as rushed from the opposite side of previous season.

      He didn’t rush nearly as much as he should have. Even Nobody made note of that.

      He is a stud, elite pass rusher. And when the defense fails to generate consistent pressure, you idiots who think pass rushers are easily replaceable have very short memories and very little knowledge of football.

      • DEBUCSOWN

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        Post count: 2820

        Anyone who doesn’t agree with you is an idiot, eh?

        Spoken like a true trump supporter.

        Butt hurt much? Lol.

        My turn: are you okay? Your wife leave you? You seem more triggered then usual lately. Lmao.

    • Boid Fink

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      Post count: 1421

      In two years with Tampa, Shaq is 9th on the all time Buccaneer sack list. Give him two more seasons and he will be much higher. And I’m sure his pressure rate is near the top.

      He is an elite defender. You cannot misconstrue that without just looking like a clown arguing to argue. He is t here next season, and I promise you, you guys will be botching about lack of pass rush. I’ll put money on it.

      • DEBUCSOWN

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        Post count: 2820

        Bet.

        I’m game.

        Finally! Someone putting their $ where their mouth is!

        How much you thinking, champ?

        Also 9th all time for sacks in 2 years? Whoa.

        We’ve been a sad franchise for a long. Long time.

        I can only imagine what players like doug Martin, mike evans, jameis winston, and obviously tom brady did their first year or 2. Probably top 5 records all over the place. Yawn.

    • BeachBumBuc

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      Post count: 72

      I predict they are offering Shaq a two year deal. He would be 30-31 and he could get a contract then. I suspect he wants 4-5 Yrs. I have a bunch they will give him voidable years.

      It would be lower risk.

      Anyone else ?

    • m_j

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      Post count: 556

      shaq is a great player but people tend to think he is better than he is

      it would be great to keep him, but it is not end of the world if we don‘t. we are going to be very competitive, with or without him!

    • Pennywise

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      Post count: 10242

      He isn’t worth losing other key free agents over. Don’t break the bank on him , go after Reddick , and draft Ossai

    • mjs020294

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      Post count: 95

      I predict they are offering Shaq a two year deal. He would be 30-31 and he could get a contract then. I suspect he wants 4-5 Yrs. I have a bunch they will give him voidable years.

      It would be lower risk.

      Anyone else ?

      Its highly unlikely the Bucs can make a two year deal work and its even more unlikely Shaq will even consider it. It will need to be a four year deal, maybe with a couple of voidable years tagged on, with $60 million guaranteed and and average of over $18 million a year.

      To the OP post Shaq was not tagged for two reasons: Placing a second tag on a guy his age that has never had the security of a long term deal is not the done thing; plus tagging him is a few million more expensive than tagging Godwin.

    • Boid Fink

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      Post count: 1421

      Per JC: 5 years, $110M, $68M guaranteed.

      2 years (basically) 34.5 million G’teed. You were dead wrong and off by a mile like a lot of your hooey, Mr. Bucs GM. You really lied to us about being a GM candidate and now we have to take you seriously?

      You were dead wrong.

      • JC5100

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        Post count: 3273

        I clearly said it was from Joel Corry, who is a former agent.

        Now why don’t answer my question as to why Barrett had 1.5 sacks in 400+ defensive snaps in 2016.

    • Biggs3535

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      Post count: 6674

      Boid you need to prepare yourself. Joel Corry has him at 5 years, $110M, $68M guaranteed.

      You need to prepare yourself, Boid.

    • Boid Fink

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      Post count: 1421

      Prepare myself to laugh at JC for being full of shit and a liar as well.

    • Hockey Duckie

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      Post count: 1505

      He does. He gendered the most pressures the last two years. And he covered more than usual this year, as well as rushed from the opposite side of previous season.

      He didn’t rush nearly as much as he should have. Even Nobody made note of that.

      He is a stud, elite pass rusher. And when the defense fails to generate consistent pressure, you idiots who think pass rushers are easily replaceable have very short memories and very little knowledge of football.

      iirc, JPP wanted his side back this past year… the side the Shaq earned 19.5 sacks in his first year with the Bucs. And yet, it’s Shaq with one of the most QB pressures for the past two seasons. I know that Shaq has influenced a couple of INTs because of his pressure (hand on QB while throwing). Those don’t go down as sacks b/c the QB threw it, but they do go down as pressure. If there was a stat that those pressures caused a turnover, incompletion, or completion would be nice because we would see the impact of said pressure.

      Against KC in the Super Bowl, Mahomes was sacked only 3 times. If you look at the box stats in ESPN, you’ll see that Mahomes was hit 10 times, with 4 belonging to Shaq. If you watch all the breakdown videos of the Bucs’ defense stuffing the Chiefs’ offense, they’ll point out that because of “pressure” Mahomes field of vision was limited in scope and time. If Mahomes wasn’t pressured, then he would have had time to find the open receiver. You can see receivers break open after initially being engaged.

      The limiting of field of vision means dictating were the QB can throw. This is important because the pressure helps to manipulate where the QB can throw in conjunction with the secondary. Because the secondary knows where Mahomes will throw, then they get a better chance of defending it. That stat is called Pass Defends. Although the credit stat belongs to the DB or LB, a significant factor is pressure, whom none get praise for those using only basic stats in a vacuum.

      The Bucs corralled the Chief gunslinger due to it’s pressure of limiting time and field of vision. It’s because of that pressure is how the Bucs made it was a dominant game.

      We’re fortunate that the Chiefs were full of hubris to display their deep, explosive game as opposed to the short to intermediate game, which would have negated the pressure being brought. That’s what KC did to us to start the game. So Brady went small ball.

      Super Bowl pressure stats

        Mahomes: 3 sacks, 10 QB hits, 9 pass defenses
        Brady: 1 sack, 2 QB hits, 1 pass defenses

      Games are won in the trenches. The Bucs were that dominant against KC’s trenches. KC had one player of note on their defensive line and three starters out of their offensive line. That’s why the Super Bowl was a blowout, but the other three playoff games were nailbiters.

    • Boid Fink

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      Post count: 1421

      You were clearly wrong by insinuating this is what would happen. I could have posted ten people’s opinions about what Shaq was going to fetch on the market. But to do so means I am siding with that opinion. You were dead wrong.

      Shaq was more of a traditional pass rusher with the Broncos. And he did his job very well. Look dude, you have his tape. Why don’t you do the research your own damn self and come back to me. It will only take you a few hours to figure out how dumb you sounded. Don’t fake the funk. Be real.

      I clearly said it was from Joel Corry, who is a former agent.

      Now why don’t answer my question as to why Barrett had 1.5 sacks in 400+ defensive snaps in 2016.

      • JC5100

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        Post count: 3273

        You just said in the other thread he wasn’t asked to rush the passer in Denver but now you’re saying he was more of a traditional pass rusher. Which is it?

    • Boid Fink

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      Post count: 1421

      I meant traditional linebacker. Apologies for that error. Ow with that cleared up, what say you? You didn’t watch a single bit of his past, like I did, so you have no idea what your talking about. As usual. Your a liar. I’ve called you that before because it’s truth. Bucs GM candidate my ass. That’s a lie, According to Maury.

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6674

      Now why don’t answer my question as to why Barrett had 1.5 sacks in 400+ defensive snaps in 2016.

      Does it matter that, unlike every other season he’s played, the majority of those snaps were in run defense? Probably not.

      Here are the pressure rates for Shaq:

      2015: 1 pressure every 8.7 pass rush snaps
      2016: 1 pressure every 8.3 pass rush snaps
      2017: 1 pressure every 7.5 pass rush snaps
      2018: 1 pressure every 9.8 pass rush snaps
      2019: 1 pressure every 7.1 pass rush snaps (Lead NFL in sacks)
      2020: 1 pressure every 6.7 pass rush snaps (2nd in NFL in pressures)

      No matter what the sack numbers were, the pressure rates were fairly consistent. I’m sure it’s a complete coincidence you chose to single-out the year he had the least amount of sacks. It’s not like you to try to manipulate numbers to enhance your shitty point.

    • JC5100

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      Post count: 3273

      My shitty point? You used my argument to straddle the fence in the other thread saying it’s a good contract if he stays motivated.

      If Barrett flops you can just say you were right, he didn’t stay motivated once he got his money.

      If Barrett keeps performing you can just say you were right.

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6674

      My shitty point?

      Yes, as that’s mostly what you offer.

      You used my argument to straddle the fence in the other thread saying it’s a good contract if he stays motivated.

      No, I said it’s good contract – which is absolutely is – regardless of what happens in the future. And that hopefully he stays motivated after that two-year guarantee is up. Again, you’re twisting arguments to fit your agenda.

      He’s no different than any other player in this league. Good players don’t produce at a high level unless they are motivated to be good.

      As always, there is nuance involved, Mr. Red Board GM. Barrett may rip both ACL’s the next two years. That won’t make this a bad contract. What is undeniable and without nuance is the bullshit you’ve shoveled regard Barrett, the salary cap, and damn-near everything else you’re having to eat it on.

    • Boid Fink

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      Post count: 1421

      Biggs is correct.

    • BucBalla85

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      Post count: 2287

      Who cares about what he did at Denver anyways? Was a lifetime ago and he’s proven to be a hell of a player here as a starter. You don’t let proven pass rushers go because of your fear of what he did with his previous team where he wasn’t even a starter. Its ok to have your questions about it and I get that but I think the evidence is stronger with what he’s done recently should be enough to forget about what he did before that. Also while he is better with Vea in there this is proven to work very well for us. You go with proven over a question every time. Especially when it comes to something as important in this league as pass rush is.

    • Boid Fink

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      Post count: 1421

      He could have signed for more elsewhere. What does that tell you HC? That he is ONLY about money? Lol.

      He’s a guy who went I drafted and worked his ass off to become acclimated to nfl speed, and now he is dominant. He has an array of moves and he plays all over. Doesn’t complain. He wants to make some money but clearly winning is important to him.

      Poor judge of character at the least. Awful use of evidence as well jc. Shame.

    • Runole

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      Post count: 2714

      Funny thread now that he is signed.

    • Boid Fink

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      Post count: 1421

      Valid points were made regardless.

      The thought of losing a very good player is something that has to be taken seriously if you are a fan of the Bucs. Right Runole?

      I mean nobody was sweating the departure of Jameis because he was a loser.

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