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    • Dolorous Jason

      Participant
      Post count: 134

      I think it’s a valid argument .Is the team better off showing constant improvement down the stretch ? Pass rush coming together , O-line starting to open run holes and pass protect. Evans and ASJ looking ever more beastly . The Secondary proving Cover 2 can still work ??Or are we better off just completely hopeless incompetent train wreck so we are in position for one of the 2 stud QB's ??Our luck we will be somewhere in between both options , but if you can choose one which is it ? If I can choose I think I'm picking constant improvement . Even if you want a QB , I think teams this past year proved you can still find nice QB prospects to build around in the late-middle 1st and top of the 2nd round.Bridgewater , Garrappolo , Carr , etc. Comparable guys in this draft could be Cook , Hundley  , Petty , Prescott , Grayson , Mannion

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1637

      I want every game to be like the Browns game. We show improvement, but we lose a close one. Stay healthy, Evans and ASJ improve, Sims/Edwards/Pamphile get some reps, GMC and Jacquies get pressure, Banks and Verner tighten up coverage – and then our QB blows the game. Let's look good while losing!

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    • richhussey

      Participant
      Post count: 499

      I don’t think either option is a valid or realistic. I can see us getting the #4 or #5 pick as I can see us winning 1-2 more games but the chances of winning more or getting the #1 overall pick are a million to one.

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    • gthrun

      Participant
      Post count: 781

      1-15. That is all that matters.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 391

      Take the dive for number five

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      I want every game to be like the Browns game. We show improvement, but we lose a close one. Stay healthy, Evans and ASJ improve, Sims/Edwards/Pamphile get some reps, GMC and Jacquies get pressure, Banks and Verner tighten up coverage - and then our QB blows the game. Let's look good while losing!

      Did i type that?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      #1 pick, but don’t expect a team to tank where about a 1/3 of the guys are playing for their next team/contract and coaches are trying to stay employed

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      improvement down the stretch and its not closeOakland is likely going to end up with the #1 pick anyway because i doubt they win a gameas long as you oick top 4-5 there is a good chance you get one of the QBsJax and Oakland most likely arent taking a QB. the only team we are competing with is the Jets. everyone else is far enough out that we will be fine

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      #1 pick, but don't expect a team to tank where about a 1/3 of the guys are playing for their next team/contract and coaches are trying to stay employed

      This hasn't stopped them so far.

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    • richhussey

      Participant
      Post count: 499

      #1 pick, but don't expect a team to tank where about a 1/3 of the guys are playing for their next team/contract and coaches are trying to stay employed

      This hasn't stopped them so far.

      Much like your faith in Glennon. Poor 10lbRod.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      The only improvement I want to see is at the QB position because if McCown turns back into Rich Gannon or Glennon turns into Matt Schaub, then it doesn’t matter if we pick #1, #5 or #9. I don’t want the other players to improve enough that they win a few games if the QB play still sucks.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1845

      I want every game to be like the Browns game. We show improvement, but we lose a close one. Stay healthy, Evans and ASJ improve, Sims/Edwards/Pamphile get some reps, GMC and Jacquies get pressure, Banks and Verner tighten up coverage - and then our QB blows the game. Let's look good while losing!

      McCown will blow the game, just not sure he will help show improvement or build confidence for Evans and ASJ.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      I want every game to be like the Browns game. We show improvement, but we lose a close one. Stay healthy, Evans and ASJ improve, Sims/Edwards/Pamphile get some reps, GMC and Jacquies get pressure, Banks and Verner tighten up coverage - and then our QB blows the game. Let's look good while losing!

      This

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Looking good while losing is highly unlikely IMO. If we start playing well we are going to put some W’s on the board.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      Looking good while losing is highly unlikely IMO. If we start playing well we are going to put some W's on the board.

      We're going to win a few games. It's extremely rare teams go 1-15 or 2-14. The worst team every year almost always wins 3 games.

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    • richhussey

      Participant
      Post count: 499

      Looking good while losing is highly unlikely IMO. If we start playing well we are going to put some W's on the board.

      We're going to win a few games. It's extremely rare teams go 1-15 or 2-14. The worst team every year almost always wins 3 games.

      Don't tell us that tell Oakland!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      No, don’t look good. Just embrace the suck.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      #1 pick, but don't expect a team to tank where about a 1/3 of the guys are playing for their next team/contract and coaches are trying to stay employed

      This hasn't stopped them so far.

      They weren't tanking they were just following the leadership of your boy

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      #1 pick, but don't expect a team to tank where about a 1/3 of the guys are playing for their next team/contract and coaches are trying to stay employed

      This hasn't stopped them so far.

      They weren't tanking they were just following the leadership of your boy

      You mean like when we played Atlanta last??

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2682

      Jax and Oakland most likely arent taking a QB. the only team we are competing with is the Jets. everyone else is far enough out that we will be fine

      If Jacksonville or Oakland get the two top picks, we're going to have to trade up with the top team tomake sure we get Mariota or Winston. Can't risk another team leapfrogging us by trading with those teams.I'm hoping for 1-15 at this point. I have never done that before but this sh*t show has changed my mind.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      #1 pick, but don't expect a team to tank where about a 1/3 of the guys are playing for their next team/contract and coaches are trying to stay employed

      This hasn't stopped them so far.

      They weren't tanking they were just following the leadership of your boy

      You mean like when we played Atlanta last??

      Have you noticed that you raise McCown when anyone questions the play of Glennon? Why do you think that is? Lol.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      We cant trade up. No matter what. Too costly and too many needs. If we miss out on the two stud qbs then you take Gregory or the top LT and you hope a guy like Hundley falls to you in the 2nd. If not take Petty in the third.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5572

      I’d be fine if the secondary players decided to make grass angels after every snap, if the defensive line decided they’d rather discuss 13th century geopolitics than rush the passer, if our skills players on offense decided that yoga counted as running a route and if our QB decided to see if he could dribble the football 4 times before throwing it.In other words, at this point I'm just in it for the comedy. Don't fuck up my Sundays by winning.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      Nobody decides… NOBODY!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 262

      Improvement down the stretch, I don’t care about any college QBs at this stage I want to see this team begin to gel and to put a product on the field that I actually want to watch. IF we end up in a position to draft Mariota or Winston I hope that we trade out with someone else who is desperate and has bought into the hype of those players and we get a bucket load of picks for the pleasure, as this team needs a lot of help and FA isn’t the answer.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 200

      I’d rather have the 1st pick overall.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      If McCown leads the Bucs to victory against Atlanta this board will explode. But hey, look at the bright side, if the board explodes 10lb won't have to go through the trouble of creating yet another account.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      If McCown leads the Bucs to victory against Atlanta this board will explode. But hey, look at the bright side, if the board explodes 10lb won't have to go through the trouble of creating yet another account.

      he is a collossal fvckup so hes probably going to win the game. the dude cant do anything right

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      If McCown leads the Bucs to victory against Atlanta this board will explode. But hey, look at the bright side, if the board explodes 10lb won't have to go through the trouble of creating yet another account.

      McCown has zero chance of beating Atlanta.  He's had 25 years in the league to figure this thing out.  Atlanta is the least talented defense we have faced in over 15 years and even still, we are going to get throttled.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      Tank nation baby!  And no improvement and Livie completely loses the lockerroom.  #1 pick and a new HC.

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    • dzejms

      Participant
      Post count: 981

      The #1 pick would be a waste if the Bucs don’t replace Lovie Smith. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Tank nation baby!  And no improvement and Livie completely loses the lockerroom.  #1 pick and a new HC.

      That's what we like to hear

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1845

      Tank nation baby!  And no improvement and Livie completely loses the lockerroom.  #1 pick and a new HC.

      That's what we like to hear

      I have a feeling the rug will get pulled out from us, crushing our hopes, and we'll be loviefied for the next two seasons.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Tank nation baby!  And no improvement and Livie completely loses the lockerroom.  #1 pick and a new HC.

      That's what we like to hear

      I have a feeling the rug will get pulled out from us, crushing our hopes, and we'll be loviefied for the next two seasons.

      McClown and Lovie will be the ones pulling on that rug... bet on that

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I’d rather have the pick. As long as the stipulation was that we drafted mariota or winston, I'm good.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Jax and Oakland most likely arent taking a QB. the only team we are competing with is the Jets. everyone else is far enough out that we will be fine

      Rams, Titans

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Looking good while losing is highly unlikely IMO. If we start playing well we are going to put some W's on the board.

      then you'll have to find something else to troll about.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      I'm hoping for 1-15 at this point. I have never done that before but this sh*t show has changed my mind.

      Funny to see so many die hards come over to the dark side

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    • richhussey

      Participant
      Post count: 499

      Jax and Oakland most likely arent taking a QB. the only team we are competing with is the Jets. everyone else is far enough out that we will be fine

      Rams, Titans

      Rams appear to like Austin Davis. He's not doing that bad ranked at #21 in the league right behind Cam Newton.

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    • gthrun

      Participant
      Post count: 781

      I do not buy this idea that we are only competing with the Jets for a top quarterback. Teams have shown that they will trade up for the right guy. There are at least ten teams that we have to worry about trading up in front of us and stealing our quarterback if we are not picking #1. Bills, Dolphins, Jets, Texans, Titans, Cowboys, Eagles, Bears, Cardinals, and Rams are all teams I think could aggressively go after a quarterback in 2015. There are probably a few other surprise teams that might fall in love with Mariota or Winston too. There is no guarantee that one of these teams will not make an RG3 type trade up to secure their guy.

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Cowboys are the only one’s that concern me.  Jones wants a big time QB in Dallas. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1658

      Individual improvement (e.g. Evans continuing to come into his own) leading to competitive games that we mange to not quite win.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1498

      1st. Let’s go 1-15, not just for the pick, but it will get us closer to firing Lovie.2nd. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Eagles get in on the QB race. Reports are coming out that Foles was going to get benched, and it's not like ButtFumble is the answer. Is it that far fetched that the ultimate risk reward coach would roll the dice on trading away picks to move up and grab Mariota?

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    • gthrun

      Participant
      Post count: 781

      2nd. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Eagles get in on the QB race.  Is it that far fetched that the ultimate risk reward coach would roll the dice on trading away picks to move up and grab Mariota?

      I agree. I think there is a very good chance Chip Kelly could trade the entire draft to get Mariota. He know that Mariota is the perfect guy to run his offense and the team is solid. It is not like they have a bunch of holes they need to fill through the 2015 draft. They could give the entire thing up to move up and it would not really hurt them. Philly has all their picks in 2015 plus an extra 4th from the Bills.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      improvement down the stretch and its not closeOakland is likely going to end up with the #1 pick anyway because i doubt they win a gameas long as you oick top 4-5 there is a good chance you get one of the QBsJax and Oakland most likely arent taking a QB. the only team we are competing with is the Jets. everyone else is far enough out that we will be fine

      this and bucs n beer post. Improvement from every position aside qb. Its the main thing holding us back.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      I do not buy this idea that we are only competing with the Jets for a top quarterback. Teams have shown that they will trade up for the right guy. There are at least ten teams that we have to worry about trading up in front of us and stealing our quarterback if we are not picking #1. Bills, Dolphins, Jets, Texans, Titans, Cowboys, Eagles, Bears, Cardinals, and Rams are all teams I think could aggressively go after a quarterback in 2015. There are probably a few other surprise teams that might fall in love with Mariota or Winston too. There is no guarantee that one of these teams will not make an RG3 type trade up to secure their guy.

      history aka the redskins have also shown that aggressively going after a qb isnt a sure sign of success.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      But as the Colts have shown us, a previously 11 win team can go 2-14 get their QB and then win 10 games the next season.  They intentionally tanked and will be set at QB for all but 1 of a roughly 30 year stretch. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1658

      I do not buy this idea that we are only competing with the Jets for a top quarterback. Teams have shown that they will trade up for the right guy. There are at least ten teams that we have to worry about trading up in front of us and stealing our quarterback if we are not picking #1. Bills, Dolphins, Jets, Texans, Titans, Cowboys, Eagles, Bears, Cardinals, and Rams are all teams I think could aggressively go after a quarterback in 2015. There are probably a few other surprise teams that might fall in love with Mariota or Winston too. There is no guarantee that one of these teams will not make an RG3 type trade up to secure their guy.

      history aka the redskins have also shown that aggressively going after a qb isnt a sure sign of success.

      Of course, history aka the Rams have also shown that trading down isn't a sure sign of success either.  You pays your money and you takes your chances.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 141

      At this point, not sure it matters. I’ve seen nothing from Lovie or his staff to give me confidence they would make a good choice with the draft pick regardless of where it is or make good decisions on the players we have. I wasn’t super enamored when Lovie was hired, haven’t seen anything to change my opinion on the matter. Still a Bucs fan after all these years, but would be nice to have a few things on the team to point to and say there's a bright spot. McCoy, David and Evans are basically about it. The team isn't even the lovable bunch of losers they were back in the McKay days.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      But as the Colts have shown us, a previously 11 win team can go 2-14 get their QB and then win 10 games the next season.  They intentionally tanked and will be set at QB for all but 1 of a roughly 30 year stretch.

      did the team tank or did they just have poor qb play?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      But as the Colts have shown us, a previously 11 win team can go 2-14 get their QB and then win 10 games the next season.  They intentionally tanked and will be set at QB for all but 1 of a roughly 30 year stretch.

      When was the last time the Bucs were an 11 win team?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Acacius -i agree, but the rams still thought they had a franchise qb at the time of that trade, didn’t they? I just believe teams will be fearful of giving up a boatload for qbs with big question marks.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      But as the Colts have shown us, a previously 11 win team can go 2-14 get their QB and then win 10 games the next season.  They intentionally tanked and will be set at QB for all but 1 of a roughly 30 year stretch.

      did the team tank or did they just have poor qb play?

      its pretty obvious that they tanked... I refuse to believe anything else than that

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      Acacius -i agree, but the rams still thought they had a franchise qb at the time of that trade, didn't they? I just believe teams will be fearful of giving up a boatload for qbs with big question marks.

      I think a lot of the cost in the St. Louis/Washington deal was because people viewed Griffin as an exceptional level QB, just shy of Luck's level. In 2013 Miami traded up to #3 for Dion Jordan and didn't have to pay nearly as much. Additionally, I don't believe you would have had to pay that much to get Bortles at #2 this past draft if you wanted him.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3341

      Nobody wants to make the magical “momentum” argument again?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 801

      I want every game to be like the Browns game. We show improvement, but we lose a close one. Stay healthy, Evans and ASJ improve, Sims/Edwards/Pamphile get some reps, GMC and Jacquies get pressure, Banks and Verner tighten up coverage - and then our QB blows the game. Let's look good while losing!

      Did i type that?

      Totally stole my answer.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 801

      I'd rather have the pick. As long as the stipulation was that we drafted mariota or winston, I'm good.

      Eyes on the prize. Damn skippy!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I'd rather have the pick. As long as the stipulation was that we drafted mariota or winston, I'm good.

      Eyes on the prize. Damn skippy!

      I would've included the firing of lovie, but he'll get the boot all on his own if he goes winless the rest of the season and we get first overall.I don't believe one happens without the other.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 801

      I'd rather have the pick. As long as the stipulation was that we drafted mariota or winston, I'm good.

      Eyes on the prize. Damn skippy!

      I would've included the firing of lovie, but he'll get the boot all on his own if he goes winless the rest of the season and we get first overall.I don't believe one happens without the other.

      If we go 1-15 he's likely back, but I can't comfortably say for sure without ownership forcing him to draft Winston or Mariota. Outside of getting one of those two players no ones coming to the games.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 517

      I want every game to be like the Browns game. We show improvement, but we lose a close one. Stay healthy, Evans and ASJ improve, Sims/Edwards/Pamphile get some reps, GMC and Jacquies get pressure, Banks and Verner tighten up coverage - and then our QB blows the game. Let's look good while losing!

      Did i type that?

      this

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4057

      I feel like if we can win a few games down the stretch it will build momentum for next year and it is really important for a young team to learn how to win and believe in themselves.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1419

      f**k itLovie has benched glennon, despite his career 2:1 td int ratio, meaning he clearly doesn't think he's the guy going forward for this team.  Just like Bucs n Beers said, every game like the browns game.1-15 for mariota or winstonand I hope we trade glennon to some team for a 3rd or 4th and he gets a shot

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    • GARCIAFAN

      Participant
      Post count: 1002

      Nobody wants to make the magical "momentum" argument again?

      Momentum is something you strive for when you can believe that your future circumstances will be better than your current ones.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      I don’t care either way, to be honest. I have little hope that this team is in good hands with Lovie.Personally, I don't think it matters a lick whether we have the number 1 overall pick or the number 5 pick.....L&L won't be taking Mariota or Winston. They are going to try to find, like DJ said in the first post, the next Jimmy G, Bridge, Carr. They will draft the best DL or OL on the board with that top 5 pick and will grab their QB a little later.I would honestly rather see them trade back to 10 or so with Tennessee or STL and grab a rusher like Beasley. Then with the additional ammo, move up from your 2nd rounder to the end of the 1st and grab Perryman. Then the focus could turn to QB. I'm thinking Petty might be a target and I see him moving up his stock to a 2nd round grade. So you could do one more Lavonte David type move and move from the 3rd back into the 2nd and grab Petty.With that, you would have a promising young passer, and 2 very good defenders at need positions on defense.As far as the teams that will realistically go after Mariota or Winston, I only see 2 of them moving up to grab them. STL or Tennessee. Austin Davis has been decent, but Fisher needs a game changer and a franchise QB in that division. Him hanging around .500 isn't going to cut it much longer. STL will grab a QB in this draft. Wisenhunt will also try to grab a QB. Locker is what he is, and I doubt Mettenburger lights it up to convince them that they have something special. I would compare their situation to Carolina's after taking Jimmy Clausen in the 2nd round in '10. Tennessee might find themselves in love with one of the two and could choose to draft a guy with a much higher perceived ceiling. Buffalo needs a QB, but they have little ammo after the trade for Watkins last year. I highly highly highly doubt they make another move up.Tennessee has a good roster and they might possibly be looking for someone, but I would guess that O'Brian waits a year and sees what he can get out of Savage or Mallett next season. We will get a glimpse of what Mallett can do this Sunday.Jets need a QB and I think they will be able to grab one of the big 2, no problem.Everyone else will either stick with what they have, or will take a shot on a mid round QB.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Nobody wants to make the magical "momentum" argument again?

      Momentum is something you strive for when you can believe that your future circumstances will be better than your current ones.

      No wonder Dough Boy doesn't believe in it ....

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      Tank nation baby!  And no improvement and Livie completely loses the lockerroom.  #1 pick and a new HC.

      Go back to chasing unicorns...ain't happening

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    • gthrun

      Participant
      Post count: 781

      I feel like if we can win a few games down the stretch it will build momentum for next year and it is really important for a young team to learn how to win and believe in themselves.

      I can not tell if this was posted in jest, or if you really believe this....but momentum does not carry over from one season to the next. It has been proven with example after example. It simply is not reality. If it were, then most Super Bowl Champions would repeat or at least come very close to repeating, but that is rarely the case. Players go home for the summer and when they come back there are new players and new coaches and new schemes and it is a new season. Nobody is thinking about the last season. Nobody cares.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      I feel like if we can win a few games down the stretch it will build momentum for next year and it is really important for a young team to learn how to win and believe in themselves.

      blue font?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4057

      Yeah I didn’t figure that was needed for an argument this silly. I’m sure we will see some, or several, versions of it coming if we win a few games down the stretch.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 303

      I feel like if we can win a few games down the stretch it will build momentum for next year and it is really important for a young team to learn how to win and believe in themselves.

      I can not tell if this was posted in jest, or if you really believe this....but momentum does not carry over from one season to the next. It has been proven with example after example. It simply is not reality. If it were, then most Super Bowl Champions would repeat or at least come very close to repeating, but that is rarely the case. Players go home for the summer and when they come back there are new players and new coaches and new schemes and it is a new season. Nobody is thinking about the last season. Nobody cares.

      I won't dispute what you are saying here but just wanted say that Super Bowl champs have a very hard time repeating nowadays because they are typically ransacked by free agency. That or the team must overpay to keep the stars and they lose depth due to salary cap restrictions.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 805

      Improvement down the stretch is completely meaningless because Lovie will be gone in 2 years and so will a lot of the players from this team. Get the #1 overall pick, endure another top 12 pick in the draft next year, and then hope that someone else can right this ship.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      Improvement down the stretch? Haven’t we seen that scenario play out here a few times already?Im sick and tired of the improvement down the stretch mantra. I want something that we have never had in this town. I want a FRANCHISE QB!!!!!!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      We’ll get the #1 pick, not because I’m rooting for it, but because the odds are surely stacked to that side.  The game this week is the most winnable left on the schedule and it’s not even very winnable.  With a bad OLine, terrible QB, weak receiving corp, DLine that generates very little pass rush, LB’s that can’t tackle, and DB’s that can’t covers… it’s hard to win in the NFL when you’re lacking at execution and coaching at every level of the game.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 134

      We'll get the #1 pick, not because I'm rooting for it, but because the odds are surely stacked to that side.  The game this week is the most winnable left on the schedule and it's not even very winnable.  With a bad OLine, terrible QB, weak receiving corp, DLine that generates very little pass rush, LB's that can't tackle, and DB's that can't covers... it's hard to win in the NFL when you're lacking at execution and coaching at every level of the game.

      I would be willing to bet a lot of money that we won't get the number one pick

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      We'll get the #1 pick, not because I'm rooting for it, but because the odds are surely stacked to that side.  The game this week is the most winnable left on the schedule and it's not even very winnable.  With a bad OLine, terrible QB, weak receiving corp, DLine that generates very little pass rush, LB's that can't tackle, and DB's that can't covers... it's hard to win in the NFL when you're lacking at execution and coaching at every level of the game.

      I would be willing to bet a lot of money that we won't get the number one pick

      how about the #2 pick..... or the #3 pick with the Jags and Raiders picking ahead of us...... all the same at that point isnt it?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      We'll get the #1 pick, not because I'm rooting for it, but because the odds are surely stacked to that side.  The game this week is the most winnable left on the schedule and it's not even very winnable.  With a bad OLine, terrible QB, weak receiving corp, DLine that generates very little pass rush, LB's that can't tackle, and DB's that can't covers... it's hard to win in the NFL when you're lacking at execution and coaching at every level of the game.

      I would be willing to bet a lot of money that we won't get the number one pick

      how about the #2 pick..... or the #3 pick with the Jags and Raiders picking ahead of us...... all the same at that point isnt it?

      Absolutely not!!

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    • gthrun

      Participant
      Post count: 781

      We need Mariota…..and a few pass rushers, 3 or 4 offensive linemen, a new secondary, a middle linebacker, several receivers, and a kick returner. But first we need a new regime running things or else the rest does not really matter.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1550

      I know everyone is hot in the pants for Mariota but frankly, this franchise needs to start winning. If the defense continues to improve and the offense starts to finally put some points on the board, that’s great. But with each loss, the fans (even the ones who profess they want to go 1-15) get more frustrated, the players lose a little more belief in what Lovie is coaching and the franchise continues it's spiral into suckitude.Now turn that around. Say the Bucs go 5-3 in the second half. The defense has come around and begun to finally look like the defense we thought we had at the beginning of the season. McCown or Glennon don't get us beat, Sims looks like Matt Forte, the o-line continues to jell and Mike Evans begins to look like Larry Fitzgerald. Sure, they finish 6-10 but there's optimisim going into next season and if Tampa Bay still wants Mariotta, they can trade some picks (or players) to move up to get him. Or allow Jameis to continue to self destruct...lowering his draft value and making him available when the Bucs come up to pick.Since starting the '11 season 4-2, Tampa Bay has gone 12-38. At some point, this franchise needs some W's. I'm not sure 1-15 would make me feel any closer to that even if it bags us the best QB on the board.

      Please wait…

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      I know everyone is hot in the pants for Mariota but frankly, this franchise needs to start winning. If the defense continues to improve and the offense starts to finally put some points on the board, that's great. But with each loss, the fans (even the ones who profess they want to go 1-15) get more frustrated, the players lose a little more belief in what Lovie is coaching and the franchise continues it's spiral into suckitude.Now turn that around. Say the Bucs go 5-3 in the second half. The defense has come around and begun to finally look like the defense we thought we had at the beginning of the season. McCown or Glennon don't get us beat, Sims looks like Matt Forte, the o-line continues to jell and Mike Evans begins to look like Larry Fitzgerald. Sure, they finish 6-10 but there's optimisim going into next season and if Tampa Bay still wants Mariotta, they can trade some picks (or players) to move up to get him. Or allow Jameis to continue to self destruct...lowering his draft value and making him available when the Bucs come up to pick.Since starting the '11 season 4-2, Tampa Bay has gone 12-38. At some point, this franchise needs some W's. I'm not sure 1-15 would make me feel any closer to that even if it bags us the best QB on the board.

      I love the process as much as the next guy but I also love how the Colts skipped right past all the bullshit you are talking about and only had one losing season of football in the process.  I realize not every franchise can go from Favre to Rodgers but for once, I would like us to give keen consideration to that side of the ball with the OC we hired to develop the offense and everything.  So while I agree with your points regarding improvement.  It's better for us some 7 mos from now if we dont improve and start next season with the idea that we will flat out beat the crap out of every team we play because we have a legit super star at QB and you dont!!

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    • richhussey

      Participant
      Post count: 499

      But with each loss, the fans (even the ones who profess they want to go 1-15) get more frustrated, the players lose a little more belief in what Lovie is coaching and the franchise continues it's spiral into suckitude.

      There's nothing new about this happening in Tampa. Everyone should be accustom to it by now. Stop kick 'n screaming about it and allow it to happen already!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      I know everyone is hot in the pants for Mariota but frankly, this franchise needs to start winning. If the defense continues to improve and the offense starts to finally put some points on the board, that's great. But with each loss, the fans (even the ones who profess they want to go 1-15) get more frustrated, the players lose a little more belief in what Lovie is coaching and the franchise continues it's spiral into suckitude.Now turn that around. Say the Bucs go 5-3 in the second half. The defense has come around and begun to finally look like the defense we thought we had at the beginning of the season. McCown or Glennon don't get us beat, Sims looks like Matt Forte, the o-line continues to jell and Mike Evans begins to look like Larry Fitzgerald. Sure, they finish 6-10 but there's optimisim going into next season and if Tampa Bay still wants Mariotta, they can trade some picks (or players) to move up to get him. Or allow Jameis to continue to self destruct...lowering his draft value and making him available when the Bucs come up to pick.Since starting the '11 season 4-2, Tampa Bay has gone 12-38. At some point, this franchise needs some W's. I'm not sure 1-15 would make me feel any closer to that even if it bags us the best QB on the board.

      It's pretty simple. Get a good QB and you win. Here are the Bucs' team passer ratings the last so many years and record: 2014: #28 passer rating, 1-72013: #22 passer rating, 4-122012: #20 passer rating, 7-92011: #25 passer rating, 4-122010: #4 passer rating, 10-62009: #30 passer rating, 3-132008: #15 passer rating, 9-72007: #8 passer rating, 9-7

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1845

      I know everyone is hot in the pants for Mariota but frankly, this franchise needs to start winning. If the defense continues to improve and the offense starts to finally put some points on the board, that's great. But with each loss, the fans (even the ones who profess they want to go 1-15) get more frustrated, the players lose a little more belief in what Lovie is coaching and the franchise continues it's spiral into suckitude.Now turn that around. Say the Bucs go 5-3 in the second half. The defense has come around and begun to finally look like the defense we thought we had at the beginning of the season. McCown or Glennon don't get us beat, Sims looks like Matt Forte, the o-line continues to jell and Mike Evans begins to look like Larry Fitzgerald. Sure, they finish 6-10 but there's optimisim going into next season and if Tampa Bay still wants Mariotta, they can trade some picks (or players) to move up to get him. Or allow Jameis to continue to self destruct...lowering his draft value and making him available when the Bucs come up to pick.Since starting the '11 season 4-2, Tampa Bay has gone 12-38. At some point, this franchise needs some W's. I'm not sure 1-15 would make me feel any closer to that even if it bags us the best QB on the board.

      It's pretty simple. Get a good QB and you win. Here are the Bucs' team passer ratings the last so many years and record: 2014: #28 passer rating, 1-72013: #22 passer rating, 4-122012: #20 passer rating, 7-92011: #25 passer rating, 4-122010: #4 passer rating, 10-62009: #30 passer rating, 3-132008: #15 passer rating, 9-72007: #8 passer rating, 9-7

      I agree, but even with our 28th passer rating this year, we're putting up roughly 18 pts a game. Lovie probably believes that if his defense played better, 18 points would be enough to get him to the playoffs.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Lovie absolutely thinks that. Lol

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      I agree, but even with our 28th passer rating this year, we’re putting up roughly 18 pts a game. Lovie probably believes that if his defense played better, 18 points would be enough to get him to the playoffs.

      Now you are touching on the stuff that bothers the crap out of me about Lovie, never mind that he is ok with losing or running his OC off before he calls a game, but he is a minimalist on the offensive side of the ball just like Schiano and Co.  Run the ball, play good D, win a 17-10 type of game and move on.  Two things - we lose almost every week, second, our D is not improving despite Sundays game vs. The Browns.  Wait until you see a 2-6 team call off the dogs in the second half on Sunday.  It's going to be great.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1845

      Lovie absolutely thinks that. Lol

      Sadly, if Lovie drafts Defense with the first few picks of the draft, I think he'll prove me right.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1845

      I agree, but even with our 28th passer rating this year, we're putting up roughly 18 pts a game. Lovie probably believes that if his defense played better, 18 points would be enough to get him to the playoffs.

      Now you are touching on the stuff that bothers the crap out of me about Lovie, never mind that he is ok with losing or running his OC off before he calls a game, but he is a minimalist on the offensive side of the ball just like Schiano and Co.  Run the ball, play good D, win a 17-10 type of game and move on.  Two things - we lose almost every week, second, our D is not improving despite Sundays game vs. The Browns.  Wait until you see a 2-6 team call off the dogs in the second half on Sunday.  It's going to be great.

      Unfortunately, I said the moment Lovie was hired, he thinks he's Dungy V2.0, with GMC (Sapp-like), LVD(Brooks-like), Goldson (Lynch-like) and a complete shut down corner in Revis.I forgot we didn't have the Culpepper, Nickerson, type supporting casts to really get this defense going. But I knew the offense was going to suck under Lovie, and he didn't disappoint.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      We'll get the #1 pick, not because I'm rooting for it, but because the odds are surely stacked to that side.  The game this week is the most winnable left on the schedule and it's not even very winnable.  With a bad OLine, terrible QB, weak receiving corp, DLine that generates very little pass rush, LB's that can't tackle, and DB's that can't covers... it's hard to win in the NFL when you're lacking at execution and coaching at every level of the game.

      I would be willing to bet a lot of money that we won't get the number one pick

      If we go 1-15, which I think is the odds on favorite, the #1 pick is a lock.  Both the Raiders and Jags are better and will probably get at least 2 wins each.  Besides, the Bucs S.O.S. will win them any tie-breakers.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 60

      WOULD YOU TRADE MIKE GLENNON AND OUR FIRST ROUND PICK FOR  JFF?IF NOT, HOW BOUT MIKE AND 2ND ROUNDER

      Please wait…

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      WOULD YOU TRADE MIKE GLENNON AND OUR FIRST ROUND PICK FOR  JFF?IF NOT, HOW BOUT MIKE AND 2ND ROUNDER

      God no.  JFF has no future in the NFL.  You will start to see what I am talking about soon enough but there is a reason he's not anywhere near the starter in Cleveland and it has nothing to do with them sort of winning.

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    • richhussey

      Participant
      Post count: 499

      WOULD YOU TRADE MIKE GLENNON AND OUR FIRST ROUND PICK FOR  JFF?IF NOT, HOW BOUT MIKE AND 2ND ROUNDER

      Why would we want Tebow v2?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      WOULD YOU TRADE MIKE GLENNON AND OUR FIRST ROUND PICK FOR  JFF?IF NOT, HOW BOUT MIKE AND 2ND ROUNDER

      God no.  JFF has no future in the NFL.  You will start to see what I am talking about soon enough but there is a reason he's not anywhere near the starter in Cleveland and it has nothing to do with them sort of winning.

      He's struggling with the scout team.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      WOULD YOU TRADE MIKE GLENNON AND OUR FIRST ROUND PICK FOR  JFF?IF NOT, HOW BOUT MIKE AND 2ND ROUNDER

      Dude....We're not the Jets....

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      I know everyone is hot in the pants for Mariota but frankly, this franchise needs to start winning. If the defense continues to improve and the offense starts to finally put some points on the board, that's great. But with each loss, the fans (even the ones who profess they want to go 1-15) get more frustrated, the players lose a little more belief in what Lovie is coaching and the franchise continues it's spiral into suckitude.Now turn that around. Say the Bucs go 5-3 in the second half. The defense has come around and begun to finally look like the defense we thought we had at the beginning of the season. McCown or Glennon don't get us beat, Sims looks like Matt Forte, the o-line continues to jell and Mike Evans begins to look like Larry Fitzgerald. Sure, they finish 6-10 but there's optimisim going into next season and if Tampa Bay still wants Mariotta, they can trade some picks (or players) to move up to get him. Or allow Jameis to continue to self destruct...lowering his draft value and making him available when the Bucs come up to pick.Since starting the '11 season 4-2, Tampa Bay has gone 12-38. At some point, this franchise needs some W's. I'm not sure 1-15 would make me feel any closer to that even if it bags us the best QB on the board.

      Fug that... lets start winning next year when we're built to do so. Why put lipstick on this pig?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 134

      We'll get the #1 pick, not because I'm rooting for it, but because the odds are surely stacked to that side.  The game this week is the most winnable left on the schedule and it's not even very winnable.  With a bad OLine, terrible QB, weak receiving corp, DLine that generates very little pass rush, LB's that can't tackle, and DB's that can't covers... it's hard to win in the NFL when you're lacking at execution and coaching at every level of the game.

      I would be willing to bet a lot of money that we won't get the number one pick

      If we go 1-15, which I think is the odds on favorite, the #1 pick is a lock.  Both the Raiders and Jags are better and will probably get at least 2 wins each.  Besides, the Bucs S.O.S. will win them any tie-breakers.

      Going 1-15 is definitely not the "odds on favourite". The current betting line on our total regular season wins is under/over 3.5.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      We'll get the #1 pick, not because I'm rooting for it, but because the odds are surely stacked to that side.  The game this week is the most winnable left on the schedule and it's not even very winnable.  With a bad OLine, terrible QB, weak receiving corp, DLine that generates very little pass rush, LB's that can't tackle, and DB's that can't covers... it's hard to win in the NFL when you're lacking at execution and coaching at every level of the game.

      I would be willing to bet a lot of money that we won't get the number one pick

      If we go 1-15, which I think is the odds on favorite, the #1 pick is a lock.  Both the Raiders and Jags are better and will probably get at least 2 wins each.  Besides, the Bucs S.O.S. will win them any tie-breakers.

      Going 1-15 is definitely not the "odds on favourite". The current betting line on our total regular season wins is under/over 3.5.

      I know what the Vegas line is... I took the under.  Logic is always smarter than statistics.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4057

      1-15 is hard to do. I mean 0-16 is well neigh impossible but 1-15 isn’t easy either. As grim as it is ATL is a mess the Deadskins are trash.  The Bears have self-immolated. We’ve got our best 3 game stretch here, granted it was the best 5 game stretch and we choked on a chicken bone versus MIN and CLE but those are teams that we could beat because they are so prone to beating themselves. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 134

      We'll get the #1 pick, not because I'm rooting for it, but because the odds are surely stacked to that side.  The game this week is the most winnable left on the schedule and it's not even very winnable.  With a bad OLine, terrible QB, weak receiving corp, DLine that generates very little pass rush, LB's that can't tackle, and DB's that can't covers... it's hard to win in the NFL when you're lacking at execution and coaching at every level of the game.

      I would be willing to bet a lot of money that we won't get the number one pick

      If we go 1-15, which I think is the odds on favorite, the #1 pick is a lock.  Both the Raiders and Jags are better and will probably get at least 2 wins each.  Besides, the Bucs S.O.S. will win them any tie-breakers.

      Going 1-15 is definitely not the "odds on favourite". The current betting line on our total regular season wins is under/over 3.5.

      I know what the Vegas line is... I took the under.  Logic is always smarter than statistics.

      Hmmm. You have made this bet when? And with which Sportsbook?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      But with each loss, the fans (even the ones who profess they want to go 1-15) get more frustrated

      This fan would be far more frustrated with a win Sunday than i'd be with a loss. This team has major problems and a victory vs a similarly craptastic 2-6 team isn't gonna change anything.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      1-15 is hard to do. I mean 0-16 is well neigh impossible but 1-15 isn't easy either. As grim as it is ATL is a mess the Deadskins are trash.  The Bears have self-immolated. We've got our best 3 game stretch here, granted it was the best 5 game stretch and we choked on a chicken bone versus MIN and CLE but those are teams that we could beat because they are so prone to beating themselves.

      So you’re thinking these games are going to be hard to lose?  Wondering if the bucs are up to the challenge… we will see dalbuc

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 881

      We will win 2 or 3 games down the stretch in games we shouldnt win. We always do.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      If I had to guess i’d say 3 wins for the season.  Still should be a top 4 pick.  Is that good enough to get one of those two QBs w/o moving up?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      If I had to guess i'd say 3 wins for the season.  Still should be a top 4 pick.  Is that good enough to get one of those two QBs w/o moving up?

      If no one leap frogs us it will be.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 881

      Unless Winston lights it up in the combine, he may not be drafted as high as you think he will be. If he has another scandal, he may drop out of the first round entirely. Most teams don’t want to spend first round picks on headaches like that…especially if he’s the leader of your team.

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    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Unless Winston lights it up in the combine, he may not be drafted as high as you think he will be. If he has another scandal, he may drop out of the first round entirely. Most teams don't want to spend first round picks on headaches like that...especially if he's the leader of your team.

      Nope.  He is the first pick in any draft.  Dont be dumb as hell.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      ANY draft?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1571

      I would take the improvement if it is true improvement.  I don’t mean winning because the other team beat themselves, I mean winning because we actually beat them.  I don't think momentum carries over from one year to the next, but belief in a foundation does.  Leadership does.  Players actually caring about the outcome of a game does.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I know everyone is hot in the pants for Mariota but frankly, this franchise needs to start winning. If the defense continues to improve and the offense starts to finally put some points on the board, that's great. But with each loss, the fans (even the ones who profess they want to go 1-15) get more frustrated, the players lose a little more belief in what Lovie is coaching and the franchise continues it's spiral into suckitude.Now turn that around. Say the Bucs go 5-3 in the second half. The defense has come around and begun to finally look like the defense we thought we had at the beginning of the season. McCown or Glennon don't get us beat, Sims looks like Matt Forte, the o-line continues to jell and Mike Evans begins to look like Larry Fitzgerald. Sure, they finish 6-10 but there's optimisim going into next season and if Tampa Bay still wants Mariotta, they can trade some picks (or players) to move up to get him. Or allow Jameis to continue to self destruct...lowering his draft value and making him available when the Bucs come up to pick.Since starting the '11 season 4-2, Tampa Bay has gone 12-38. At some point, this franchise needs some W's. I'm not sure 1-15 would make me feel any closer to that even if it bags us the best QB on the board.

      Fug that... lets start winning next year when we're built to do so. Why put lipstick on this pig?

      Agreed. What does it matter now? They've failed enough, that by midway, they have killed their statistical chances at playoffs. Why not finish out properly??And young, for the record, ..it's not nice to make fun of lovie's affair with mccown's mom. She's trying to look her prettiest for him.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      Agreed. What does it matter now? They've failed enough, that by midway, they have killed their statistical chances at playoffs.

      Anyone else find it entertaining when Lovie Smith mentions the playoffs and the Bucs only being 3 games out? Always good for a laugh or two.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      We'll get the #1 pick, not because I'm rooting for it, but because the odds are surely stacked to that side.  The game this week is the most winnable left on the schedule and it's not even very winnable.  With a bad OLine, terrible QB, weak receiving corp, DLine that generates very little pass rush, LB's that can't tackle, and DB's that can't covers... it's hard to win in the NFL when you're lacking at execution and coaching at every level of the game.

      I would be willing to bet a lot of money that we won't get the number one pick

      If we go 1-15, which I think is the odds on favorite, the #1 pick is a lock.  Both the Raiders and Jags are better and will probably get at least 2 wins each.  Besides, the Bucs S.O.S. will win them any tie-breakers.

      Going 1-15 is definitely not the "odds on favourite". The current betting line on our total regular season wins is under/over 3.5.

      I know what the Vegas line is... I took the under.  Logic is always smarter than statistics.

      Hmmm. You have made this bet when? And with which Sportsbook?

      Caesars Palace in Vegas.  After week 4 they put out adjusted prop bets.  The Bucs over/under was 3.5.  I bet $250 on the under.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1198

      If the bucs are goign to go down I prefer they go down in a flaming mess, so the Bucs can pin the hopes of the area on a young QB.

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    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Caesars Palace in Vegas.  After week 4 they put out adjusted prop bets.  The Bucs over/under was 3.5.  I bet $250 on the under.

      I think your looking good. They may make it to 3 wins with the Skins and Bears coming up.  Also Carolina is a possibility.  So if they win 2 out 3 of those games, you cash in. Best of luck to you.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      Caesars Palace in Vegas.  After week 4 they put out adjusted prop bets.  The Bucs over/under was 3.5.  I bet $250 on the under.

      I think your looking good. They may make it to 3 wins with the Skins and Bears coming up.  Also Carolina is a possibility.  So if they win 2 out 3 of those games, you cash in. Best of luck to you.

      Thanks.  The worst part of it is that Caesars had them at 7.5 in August.  Basically, Vegas saw that after 4 games, this team was at best a 4-12 team.  Plus, you had assume that Vegas never expected the Bucs to be 4-0 then go 3-9 or 4-8 the rest of the way.  At best, they probably thought we'd be 2-2 after 4 and then win about 5 or 6 the rest of the way.  After 4 games they basically said... at best they win 4.  That's disappointing.The plus side is that I bet $200 on the under in August too!  Since they'd have to go undefeated for me to lose that one, the worst case scenario is that I can only lose $50.  Since the Bucs fired Gruden, I've been betting $200 on the under.  The only year I lost was 2010 when they were at 5.5.  The biggest lock of the group, that I thought, was Schiano's first year when the number was 8.5.  I thought that under was easy... turns out that was the closest.  Still, thanks to the Glazers not knowing who to hire as HC, I'm up $600 and will be up $1,050 by seasons end since 2009.

      Please wait…

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