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    • G.O.A.T. Pellets

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      Post count: 643

      I can’t remember feeling confident with our safeties going into a season in the last decade+. Finally I do…like really do. I believe Justin Evans has true star potential as he can cover/tackle/ball-hawk, I think Mike Edwards could start year 1 and make some noise, I’m excited about Jordan Whitehead’s year 2 development, MJ Stewart is a better fit at FS/Nickel and even Kentrell Brice could thrive in the Bowels system.

      As the NFL has moved to a quick out, 3 step drop passing league, I feel our secondary full of aggressive athletes(generally speaking) has the ability to really help us get back to the promise land.

    • Alldaway 2.0

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      Post count: 4689

      Conte should have never sniffed the starting lineup.  That is the truth and the smoke PR was blowing to protect him was silly haha.

      Build the trenches!

    • notabucsfan

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      Post count: 425

      No. The safety position shouldn’t be considered a strength at all until they actually perform on the field. Evans showed potential but for the most part was below average when he played last year, Whitehead wasn’t very good, Brice was signed as a filler, and Edwards is a rookie who we reached for in the 3rd round.

    • Alldaway 2.0

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      Post count: 4689

      I can’t remember feeling confident with our safeties going into a season in the last decade+. Finally I do…like really do. I believe Justin Evans has true star potential as he can cover/tackle/ball-hawk, I think Mike Edwards could start year 1 and make some noise, I’m excited about Jordan Whitehead’s year 2 development, MJ Stewart is a better fit at FS/Nickel and even Kentrell Brice could thrive in the Bowels system.

      As the NFL has moved to a quick out, 3 step drop passing league, I feel our secondary full of aggressive athletes(generally speaking) has the ability to really help us get back to the promise land.

      I agree that safety is going to turn to a strength with this coaching staff.  Bowles defense relies on strong safety play.

      The center of this defense is the lynchpin of how it all comes together.  Nose tackle, Mike LB, stack LB, nickel CB, and safties.

      Not to diminish the importance of boundary CB’s and edge rushers in Bowles system.  But without a strong center you can’t defense the run or pass. Having competent boundary CB’s and a pass rush pushes a defense from average to an imposing defense IMO.

      Build the trenches!

    • Pepsi

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      Post count: 2072

      Would be happy to change my tune about this over the course of the season but I dont really like Justin Evans, I think Whitehead is meh.. Mike Edwards is a rookie, and MJ Stewart I havent seen play safety. So im even close to considering safety a strength at this point.

      and if we play this season without JPP, and without McCoy or even with an older McCoy, no drafted edge rushers.. our safeties are going to look like trash even if they arent.

    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6485

      Not until they put it on the field, no.

      We have:

      Evans – Oft-injured, struggled horrifically in coverage and a few key run supports his rookie year, played better in his 2018 snaps but couldn’t stay on the field.

      Whitehead – 2nd year player who oddly flipped the script and played solidly in coverage (outside of a few bad penalties and downfield losses) but struggled immensely in run support in year 1.

      Stewart – A player whose athletic traits (and inability to find the ball downfield and maul at route stems) destined him to struggle to play NCB in the NFL. Now attempting to convert to Safety.

      Edwards – Promising, play-making, all-around Rookie who will at least be a sub package and ST Ace.

      I need a lot more onfield NFL success and availability to feel confident in this group. Hopefully it comes.

      If we would have drafted Nassir Adderly along with Edwards, I would feel much better about the Safety position.

    • notabucsfan

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      Post count: 425

      Would be happy to change my tune about this over the course of the season but I dont really like Justin Evans, I think Whitehead is meh.. Mike Edwards is a rookie, and MJ Stewart I havent seen play safety. So im even close to considering safety a strength at this point.

      and if we play this season without JPP, and without McCoy or even with an older McCoy, no drafted edge rushers.. our safeties are going to look like trash even if they arent.

      It’s what some fans do for this team. They are already crowning the safety position a strength when none of these guys have actually performed on the field yet. Do they have potential? Yes, but they have a long way to go IMO.

    • GoldsonAges

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      Post count: 2971

      I’m not a big fan of the safeties or corners despite all the draft picks.

      I like Whitehead and Edwards but it remains to be seen if Edwards can crack the lineup as a rookie. Whitehead has some really good potentual.

      I’m still waiting for Evans to have the pro bowl season we were promised by Mike Smith. Hell, maybe we should shoot for Top 40. We’re setting the bar way too high for him.

      GottaJaboo wrote:
      (Justin) Evans will be far superior to (Budda) Baker in the pros.

      Dan Skipper Sucks! (lost bet)
      Update – UDFA Dan Skipper has been signed by the Dallas Cowboys

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2507

      Brice will be lucky to make the team.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21923

      Anyone care to comment on how safeties are used in this D? I saw 3 on the field at once, does that mean one in the slot?

    • BucsBay

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      Post count: 1965

      If they go sign Kam Chancellor,  I’d start to consider safety a strength. We’re still too young there right now. Veteran QBs like Brees and Ryan would still get over on our current safety roster I believe.

    • red816

      Participant
      Post count: 356

      If they go sign Kam Chancellor, I’d start to consider safety a strength. We’re still too young there right now. Veteran QBs like Brees and Ryan would still get over on our current safety roster I believe.

      Huh? Chancellor hasn’t been able to play since 2017, his neck is wrecked, and just failed his physical in Seattle.

    • red816

      Participant
      Post count: 356

      Evans still has a lingering toe injury from last year, that’s concerning.

      Arians mentioned he wasn’t practicing the other day because of it.

    • Bootz2004

      Blocked
      Post count: 2242

      Not until they put it on the field, no.

      We have:

      Evans – Oft-injured, struggled horrifically in coverage and a few key run supports his rookie year, played better in his 2018 snaps but couldn’t stay on the field.

      Whitehead – 2nd year player who oddly flipped the script and played solidly in coverage (outside of a few bad penalties and downfield losses) but struggled immensely in run support in year 1.

      Stewart – A player whose athletic traits (and inability to find the ball downfield and maul at route stems) destined him to struggle to play NCB in the NFL. Now attempting to convert to Safety.

      Edwards – Promising, play-making, all-around Rookie who will at least be a sub package and ST Ace.

      I need a lot more onfield NFL success and availability to feel confident in this group. Hopefully it comes.

      If we would have drafted Nassir Adderly along with Edwards, I would feel much better about the Safety position.

      Agree 100% here

    • Schwifty9

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      Post count: 91

      @Nobody.

      You are very clearly the most knowledgeable poster on this site when it comes to understanding the game from a technical standpoint. But I wonder, how accurate do your evaluations tend to be. I would be extremely interested in seeing your positional player rankings from 2016 and 2017 and compare them to the actual results.

      The impetus for me asking you this, is the major, major discrepancy between your evaluation of Devin White , where you attest you would not even had considered drafting him until the late 1st, versus say, Daniel Jeremiah who had him rated as the 6th best prospect of the draft despite having only played linebacker for 3 years.

      So yeah if you keep a log of your player rankings i’d love to see them.

    • Bootz2004

      Blocked
      Post count: 2242

      @nobody.

      You are very clearly the most knowledgeable poster on this site when it comes to understanding the game from a technical standpoint.

      LMFAOO! Here we go again with that…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2507

      Somebody is jelly as hell!

    • Watchman

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      Post count: 449

      I can’t remember feeling confident with our safeties going into a season in the last decade+. Finally I do…like really do. I believe Justin Evans has true star potential as he can cover/tackle/ball-hawk, I think Mike Edwards could start year 1 and make some noise, I’m excited about Jordan Whitehead’s year 2 development, MJ Stewart is a better fit at FS/Nickel and even Kentrell Brice could thrive in the Bowels system.

      As the NFL has moved to a quick out, 3 step drop passing league, I feel our secondary full of aggressive athletes(generally speaking) has the ability to really help us get back to the promise land.

      I don’t know if I would say confident.  Optimistic might be a better term.  Looking at how you described it:

      One player you “believe” could be a star

      A rookie “could start”

      Another player potentially showing “2nd year development”

       

      Certainly there is potential and reason for optimism, and honestly safety has been so bad for so long it is a welcome change to finally think there could be some talent on the roster at that position.

    • tog

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      Post count: 3533

      Anyone care to comment on how safeties are used in this D? I saw 3 on the field at once, does that mean one in the slot?

      It’ll vary a bit based on the personnel. Generally, you can think of the 3rd safety playing in the slot. Often teams will go to Big Nickel which is like Nickel but instead of a CB replacing a LB you have a Safety replacing the LB.

      The reason for the safety instead of the LB is that generally (and again it can change based on the specific personnel) the safety is slightly worse in coverage than a CB but better in run support and can be more effective against TEs.

      Generally, the advantage CBs bring in coverage is the ability to be on an island, have the necessary long speed and quick twitch abilities to cover both a go and a slant. But the nickel position is much more protected being protected by an LB, CB, and S on each side. Thus some of the covergae deficiencies of a safety can be covered up while being stronger against the run.

    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6485

      @Schwifty9

      I’ve got a 2019 prospect 1st round thread and a 2nd round and beyond thread.

      Feel free to bump either of them next year to point out my soul- crushing dim-wittery when my projections turn out to be rubbish!

    • The Anti-Java

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      Post count: 7089

      @schwifty9

      I’ve got a 2019 prospect 1st round thread and a 2nd round and beyond thread.

      Feel free to bump either of them next year to point out my soul- crushing dim-wittery when my projections turn out to be rubbish!

      LOL
      You were pretty right on, on your evaluations if memory serves.
      For me, I will be looking forward to seeing how the White over Allen choice pans out. It will be interesting to see who has the better season. I know it will be something I will be watching closely. And I would love to be wrong and White is in the battle for DROY right up to game 16, and Allen is so-so.

    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6485

      Ditto.

      Step one is White stays healthy.

      I’m just going to stick to that hope for now. That position is the most injured in the NFL. If he misses any time he won’t be able to pile up the numbers to contend for DRotY.

      If he stays healthy, I think he’ll be right in that mix.

    • G.O.A.T. Pellets

      Participant
      Post count: 643

      I can’t remember feeling confident with our safeties going into a season in the last decade+. Finally I do…like really do. I believe Justin Evans has true star potential as he can cover/tackle/ball-hawk, I think Mike Edwards could start year 1 and make some noise, I’m excited about Jordan Whitehead’s year 2 development, MJ Stewart is a better fit at FS/Nickel and even Kentrell Brice could thrive in the Bowels system.

      As the NFL has moved to a quick out, 3 step drop passing league, I feel our secondary full of aggressive athletes(generally speaking) has the ability to really help us get back to the promise land.

      I don’t know if I would say confident. Optimistic might be a better term. Looking at how you described it:

      One player you “believe” could be a star

      A rookie “could start”

      Another player potentially showing “2nd year development”

      Certainly there is potential and reason for optimism, and honestly safety has been so bad for so long it is a welcome change to finally think there could be some talent on the roster at that position.

      Optimism may indeed be a better word, under those circumstances. However I’m confident I won’t see Conte get folded up like a wet nap again, Tandy run a laboring 4.8 trying to cover boundries or Brent Grimes(not a safety, but damn) allow slants all day so the LBs are forced to make the tackle since he’s a steamy puss bag!

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1309

      @ Nobody, You have been trashing White in your pre-draft analysis and now you are suggesting in the mix for DROY if he stays healthy?

    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6485

      @ Nobody, You have been trashing White in your pre-draft analysis and now you are suggesting in the mix for DROY if he stays healthy?

      “Trashing?” You feel that is the correct descriptor for my analysis of Devin White?

      Do you feel like I “trashed” Rashan Gary, Montez Sweat, and Greg Little as well?

      I do my best in all aspects of my life to stick to the axiom of “I’m probably wrong, I just haven’t been exposed to the argument or data that will persuade me otherwise.”

      So when it comes to reviewing prospects, I’m just taking in the data, processing it to the best of my ability (which may or may not be good), and coming up with my best surmise (which may or may not be correct).

      I laid out my issues with White as a prospect:

      1) Inconsistent processing (sometimes very poor) which can lead to him either (a) artificially playing slower than his game speed on other snaps or (b) being out of position to make a play that he should make.

      2) The coverage ask of him in LSU was limited (both in terms of frequency and scope) compared to what he will be asked to do in the NFL (especially in the NFC South). The snaps that he does have that include Zone principles (typically Match Quarters…which we won’t be running much of, if any) are very uneven; sometimes very poor.

      This makes projection difficult. A lot of times with me, its not that I think a player IS bad or WILL BE bad…I just don’t see convincing evidence in the tape to project a certain sort of play (eg, I don’t know how well he will play Cover 2 Hook/Seam or Mid-Hook Zone and I don’t know how he will cover the explosive Slot/TBs we have in the NFCS).

      3) Despite the number of times he was blitzed (and Green Dog Blitzed) at LSU (which was huge), his Sack numbers aren’t good. This is simple. The tape shows a player who can generate Pressure at a fairly good clip, but he is overwhelmingly waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of control and this creates a problem as a finisher. He has this same issue on the edge in the run game. He has a high propensity of being out of control in the contact window…which causes missed Tackles and missed Sacks.

      Beyond him as a prospect, I laid out my reasons for not wanting him at 5 (both of these apply to the RB position as well):

      4) Off-ball LB is the most injury-prone (all of being on the injury list at all, suffering a 1-4 week injury, and suffering a season-ending injury) position in the entirety of the NFL (even more than RBs). Further, their shelf-life and half-life is extremely low (just like RBs). Unlike other positions where the 2nd contract is typically going to see the player being great for the bulk of it (as they’re still in their “prime” for the duration), LB play falls off a cliff (broadly…there are a few anomalies out there…but 1st principles aren’t born on the back of anomalies) after a year or two of the 2nd contract.

      5) Comparative salary savings. Getting a high-impact rookie DL/Edge at number 5 for 5 years will effectively save you a HUGE number on your cap because the actual median market value for a highly productive DL/Edge is much, much more than the median market value for a producing off-ball LB.

      In terms of projection of him to be in the mix for DRotY, that is simple. You don’t have to agree with the projection of a prospect at a particular location in the draft to think that they’ll be in the mix for a reward.

      Here is an easy “for instance”. I love Jaylon Ferguson. I also think Jaylon Ferguson went to a program that will put him in a great position to optimize his ability. However, I don’t love Jaylon Ferguson because I think his ceiling is way up there. I love him because what he does is directly transferable to the NFL. He should have success straight-away and I think he is a low margin-of-error projection because of his high floor. I think he will be a multi-contract, consistent producer on the edge. I could easily a Brandon Graham type career for him. 60ish Pressures per year, some TFLs, and maybe routinely 7.5ish Sacks per year. I love that player. That is a smashing success.

      However, that isn’t the kind of guy that is going to win DRotY. (a) He isn’t in a position to just overwhelm the stat sheet and (b) he isn’t the kind of guy that will likely have “spikey” production. My guess is it will be stable and +.

      Those guys don’t win DRotY (and they don’t make All Pro). But they’re HUGE assets to a franchise and they’re great draft picks.

      With White we’ve got a player that is in position to win DRotY. DRotY LOVES Off-ball LBs because they play early and, if they’re in a play-making/downhill defense (he is), they should have TONS of opportunities to fill up the stat sheet. So if they can stay healthy, they should produce stat sheets that keep them in the media’s eye and DRotY narrative.

      What else does White have? HUGE media hype before he’s even played a down. Don’t think that the media won’t be working that narrative front-left-center all year.

      So, those are my full and complete thoughts on the subject.

      Ok, I have one more part.

      Just because I projected a player a certain way and he ends up being on our team doesn’t mean that I’m going to root against him. I’m now officially a fan of the kid. I hope the concerns that I have on Devin White the prospect don’t match up to Devin White the player (these are different things).

      I have a similar issue with Bunting. Another issue with Dean.

      I’d love for all 3 of these (or any one of them) to be wrong. My investment in being right is non-existent. I’m writing words on a board about football players. Who (including me) gives a crap.

      So that is a lot of words. Hopefully, they’re sufficient to move you off of “trashing” as your descriptor of my review of the player.

    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6485

      Let me add that, now that I’ve listened to Devin in interviews, I can see why they fell in love with him. The young man is easy to root for. I hope he stays healthy and he and LVD utterly dominate together. Off-ball LBs and DBs are my guys. It wouldn’t surprise me if White is my favorite player on this team in short order.

    • The Anti-Java

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      Post count: 7089

      @ Nobody, You have been trashing White in your pre-draft analysis and now you are suggesting in the mix for DROY if he stays healthy?

      Trashing?
      In my case I liked him well enough. but thought picking him in the 5 hole might have been a tad early. But now that he is here, hell I hope he wins DROY, League MVP, All Pro, ROH, and goes to the Hall.

    • Buc on the Move

      Participant
      Post count: 1522

      On the subject of our safeties: No more Chris Conte!

      On the subject of Devin White and DROY: I hope he has Super Bowl MVP award in his near future.

    • Havok904

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    • Alldaway 2.0

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      Post count: 4689

      You can pencil in Mike Edwards as one of the starting safeties.  He is way too disruptive to have him in nickel and dime packages only.  Mike Edwards is going to transform that back end which is what we hoped J. Evans would have done.

      But with the uncertainty of J. Evans due to injury Mike Edwards is the top dog right now at safety as a rookie.

      Build the trenches!

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