Monday, January 20, 2020

Its Personnel, Its Coaching, Its Culture, Its Systemic Ineptitude

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 112 total)
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  • #1235047
    The Anti-Java
    Participant

    While I agree with the OP, I’d simply like to hit reset at the quarterback spot to begin. We’ve had three regimes now with Winston and we’ve seen no improvement. In fact, he looks broken, which is not all his fault. Throw in improving the line and adding a vet corner next spring, and I’d at least be interested. Right now watching this team is a total waste of time.

    Agree with this.

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    #1235060
    GIJoeWasThere
    Participant

    I agree.

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    #1235068
    tog
    Participant

    The worst thing about it in 2019 is you have the perfect opportunity to reset after this season. The only contract saddling you down in Donovan Smith. Everything else is open ended. Salary cap room, average amount of draft picks, and a decent little core. Perfect opportunity for someone to come in and craft a new vision. Yet you just have that feeling the can will be kicked a little further down that road because you are so accustomed to poor judgement.

    It’ll be a true “burn it to the ground” rebuild though.

    Which is needed, but it can’t just be the players. The whole organisation is trash.

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    #1235069
    ISLAND BUCS
    Participant

     

    The Bucs will continue to disappoint

    until the OL improves!!!

     

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    Remain intimately at the heart of experience.

    #1235083
    Hockey Duckie
    Participant

    The owners are at fault by moving on from Schiano too early b/c of the nostalgia of Lovie Smith.  Schiano was in year 2 of his contract, but also had a head case of a QB in Freeman and lost their RB Martin after six games (averaging over 75 yards per game).

    But the owners did hire GM Licht after Lovie Smith.  Lovie took the team with added talent only to do worse than Schiano.  That implies bad coaching.  And it revealed itself once again in Lovie’s second year as the defense was a sieve in the final 6 games for the 2015 season.

    2015 proved if you have a good OLine group that your offense can be strong.  Only problem is Licht has never invested enough into the OLine after 2015.

    Not only that, but Licht NEVER trades up into the first or top of the 2nd round.  He’ll trade into the bottom of the 2nd and below though.  He’s too busy trying to be cute with small school players b/c he got lucky with Ali Marpet (but his athletic spiderweb has him as a top-15 player).  Licht’s scouting doesn’t realize that the further away you get away from the first round, the higher the bust chance occurs.

    If we want to fix the culture, then you need to fix the talent.  Oddly enough under Schiano and Dominik, they found talent beyond the first round.  In 2012, they drafted S Barron, RB Martin, LB David, and S Tandy.  In 2013, they used a first round on Revis, CB Banks, QB Glennon, DE Gholston, and DT Akeem Spence. Under Licht, who has had six years of drafting, the team is still lacking talent.

    But I want to focus on the OL production under Licht, using FBO (Football Outsider) rankings.

    • 2014: OC= Arroyo, Run Block = 32nd, Pass Block = 29th
    • 2015: OC= Koetter, Run Block = 9th, Pass Block = 14th (drafted LT Smith and RG Marpet in the 2nd round)
    • 2016: OC= Koetter, Run Block = 21st, Pass Block = 16th (LG Mankins retired)
    • 2017: OC= Koetter, Run Block = 16th, Pass Block = 16th (Marpet to center… only played 11 games)
    • 2018: OC= Koetter/Monken, Run Block = 31st, Pass Block = 15th (C Jensen, RG Benenoch, LG Marpet)
    • 2019: OC= Leftwich, Run Block = 17th, Pass Block = 24th

    In 2019, Jensen is playing better than he did in 2018 and Cappa is playing better than he did in 2018 (which he couldn’t beat out Benenoch).  So Leftwich has a better OL talent group than Koetter did in 2018.  The crazy thing is that all throughout Koetter’s tenure, his pass blocking has consistently been ranked 16th or above despite how terrible the run blocking has been.  But if you give Koetter talent at run blocking, then you get 2015.

    We can safely say that GM Licht did a disservice to the fans by not providing Koetter with a proper group of talent since 2015 at the OL unit.  Similarly with the defense, Smith gets berated often for having a porous defense, but under Arians’ reign, the secondary is worse.  That all points back to the lack of talent.

    Look at SF.  First time GM John Lynch has that team up and running.  His offensive line ranking this year is: OL Run Block = 8th, OL Pass Block = 9th.

    SF’s overall defense (FBO’s DVOA) = 2nd, Pass Def = 1st, and Rush Def = 17.

    To change the culture, you need talent.  SF’s offense does turn the ball over often this year with 15 (Bucs’ offense has 21 turnovers), but their defense allows about 14 ppga whereas the Bucs are allowing 31.0 ppga (probably a bit more after today’s loss).

    Now, Arians’ scoring offense has the Bucs ranked 3rd overall.  I can’t complain about the offense, but it’s also inconsistent b/c we don’t have proper GHOSTBUSTERS (very good to great OL players) for Winston.  The defense is worse than Mike Smith’s defense.  This all points to lack of talent.

    We need a proper GM b/c he’s costing us years and coaches.

     

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    #1235086
    The Anti-Java
    Participant

    @HOCKEYDUCK

    Schiano crashing the victory formation was embarrassing to both the team and the organization as a whole.

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    #1235099
    Crazyhorse54
    Participant

    I, for one, am glad to see the stadium half-empty.  Writing on a message board does little good but provide a forum to vent one’s spleen…Not going to the stadium speaks a bit louder.  The owners hopefully are embarrassed by the lack of attendance/interest in their team.  I am hoping for the day when the only ones attending are for the opposing team. Perhaps at that point, the owners will wake up to the mess they have allowed to happen. This team has been a dumpster fire for too long and needs wholesale change.  Hire a Director of Football Operations who has a proven record of success, hire a proven GM, who will hire a dynamic head coach, put together several years of solid drafts, trade for veterans who know the sport, and watch things turn around.  Until then, may there be crickets at Raymond James.

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    #1235123
    Pepsi
    Participant

    While I agree with the OP, I’d simply like to hit reset at the quarterback spot to begin. We’ve had three regimes now with Winston and we’ve seen no improvement. In fact, he looks broken, which is not all his fault. Throw in improving the line and adding a vet corner next spring, and I’d at least be interested. Right now watching this team is a total waste of time.

    I’ve never been a Winston apologist but this year, outside of one game, I dont know how people are watching the Bucs and thinking any other QB would be having success on this team. Im going to assume we ran the ball less than any other team this weekend. He’s got guys in his face less than 2 seconds after the snap nearly every play. His receivers are constantly sent on long developing routes. I dont think Winston looked sharp at all yesterday but I also dont think it would have mattered if he did.

    I could see maybe Mahomes and Lamar Jackson making a difference on this team, maybe Wilson. Thats about it. Im not opposed to a QB change if its a vet, but Id hate to use a first round pick on a rookie thinking theyll save the franchise.

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    #1235124
    Captain Hindsight
    Participant

    It starts with the Glazers

     

    SELL THE TEAM

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    #1235152
    tiapanda
    Participant

    Your post, as usual, is spot-on. I have watched NFL football since preseason games at the old Tampa Stadium in 1969, and I became a Dolphins fan as a result of my uncle, who helped name that franchise in a contest. When the Buccaneers were born in 1975, I chose to root for them because I was attending middle school in Clearwater. We moved to Atlanta, and I suffered through 0-26 in my bright orange Bucs windbreaker. I wept when we won the Lombardi, and have suffered through the post-Gruden as the team has reverted to historic ineptitude. I am done with this team, and the angst and misery that it brings every Sunday and every draft weekend. I am sick of watching the team marketed as they are, perennial losers. I am sick of the false hope and the crushing finality of every season. I can no longer subject myself and my family to this abusive relationship. Maybe I will enjoy my imminent retirement years without NFL football…

    @Fletch

    I too went to several preseason games in ’69 – ’70 in the Old Sombrero, though back then they were called exhibition games.  Don’t have to wonder why they changed the name.  We were probably at the same games.  Saw some greats like Sonny Jurgensen and Joe Namath play, Lem Barney and Charlie Taylor.  When the Bucs started in ’76  my wife and I found a way to pay for season tickets that year and the next 6 years until our daughter was born.  I was 23 in ’76 and had never lived in an NFL city.  Tampa getting the Bucs franchise was a dream come true for me. Since then I’ve seen a lot of losing, a lot of it in person.  Dungy gave us hope, and when it looked like we finally were true contenders after 20 years of losing, I remember thinking, just let us win a Super Bowl and I’ll never complain about this team again.  I think about that once in a while now and these days I still get excited about the wins, but the losses don’t hurt and stay with me like they used to.  There are still plenty of teams who’ve never won it all.

    Maybe it’s because I’m older than most of you, maybe because I’m too easily satisfied, but that Super Bowl win was enough for me.  The years since then have just been gravy.  Of course I would love to see the Bucs become contenders again.  The younger generation of Bucs fans deserve it.  But if it doesn’t happen again in my lifetime, I’ll always have that cool January night in San Diego in 2003.  We waited over 25 years for the first one.  Our next Super Bowl win will be just as sweet.  But I’ll never be done with the Bucs.

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    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by tiapanda.
    #1235158
    VirgilCaine
    Participant

    I agree with moving on from Winston, but one question on this part of the comment above:

    “THROW IN IMPROVING THE LINE AND ADDING A VET CORNER NEXT SPRING, AND I’D AT LEAST BE INTERESTED. RIGHT NOW WATCHING THIS TEAM IS A TOTAL WASTE OF TIME”

    actually two questions:

    1) is the team actually just a couple lineman and a vet corner away from being competitive?

    2) is there another GM, hired around the time of Licht, whose had all this time to shape a team but the team is still losing and AT LEAST a QB, several lineman and a CB or two away FROM JUST BEING COMPETITIVE ENOUGH TO WATCH?

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    #1235165
    Hockey Duckie
    Participant

    @HOCKEYDUCK

    Schiano crashing the victory formation was embarrassing to both the team and the organization as a whole.

    You’re kidding, right?  After knowing how Lovie Smith, the supposedly better defensive, veteran coaching guru, produced a worse record than first time coach in the NFL Schiano the following year, you still are hung up on the smallest of dislikes?

    Schiano set a tone in his first year.  He backed off in his second year.  Most of the players still speak highly of him.

    Year 1 defense had his run defense #3 overall.  Year 2 defense has the secondary vastly improved.  This can all be seen at FBO’s Defensive DVOA page.  Year 3 would have been to work on the offensive line.

    I’ll take a victory formation knowing our org was heading in the positive direction than to know it would be owning the #1 pick the very next year all because of nostalgia.  It feels as though you’re on the Glazer’s same page, not valuing progress, but rather appearance.  tsk, tsk, tsk

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    #1235171
    JC5100
    Participant

    Bucs finished 4-4 and Glennon was playing really well at the end of 2013. Think Schiano would have got it going in 2014.

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    #1235172
    BucBalla85
    Participant

    I was saying last year this team doesnt just lack good coaching they also lack talent. Some fans here disagreed and said dont worry once we get a real coach in here things will change. Im still not seeing it. Granted I dont think Arians is the answer but that still doesnt take away from my thinking that the talent sucks too. Its all the way around with this team. Starting from ownership down to the kicker/special teams players. Hell maybe even the water boys…

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    #1235186
    DonkeyHunter
    Participant

    There was never a real head coach search this past offseason.

    The writing was on the wall then.

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