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    • MarineBuc

      Participant
      Post count: 238

      4 picks…he looks lost against NFL D.Let the apologists make excuses...especially the FSU fanboys

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 293

      agree.  a QB who knows what he’s looking at isn’t holding on to the ball as long as Jameis.I don't necessarily fault him as much as I do the coaching staff. Put the kid in a freakin position to win.. or at least complete some easy passes. I really thought better of Koetter in Atlanta. Makes me wonder how much Lovie is involved on offense.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      He should have been pulled from the game after 3 picks

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1282

      He had a bad game that is for sure.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 318

      He had more Tds than Mariota today.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6

      He had a rough outing but that’s going to happen with all rookie QB’s.  There were a few times I thought he looked really good and moved the team into scoring position, only to have the kicker mess up and otherwise good drive.  The kid doesn't have a strong running game, TE, or offensive line....meaning Winston is going to be asked and put pressure on himself to do too much, which leads to mistakes.  I wouldn't write him off until you put some pieces around him.  He's got tons of potential.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      First overall picks should NOT have to have their team take up slack because of their deficiencies.J/k. Jameis is a football god! You all are just non believing usurpers.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 337

      The “this is how rookie QBs are” and/or “you have to expect this with rookies” is something of a cop-out. Rookies struggle, but this was an awful game even by rookie standards — especially given that he keeps making the same mistakes he made earlier in the year (floated a pass to the inside on an out route) and in college (not seeing the LB in underneath coverage). Chalking it up to "rookie" masks the alarming nature of a lot of his performance.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      The "this is how rookie QBs are" and/or "you have to expect this with rookies" is something of a cop-out. Rookies struggle, but this was an awful game even by rookie standards -- especially given that he keeps making the same mistakes he made earlier in the year (floated a pass to the inside on an out route) and in college (not seeing the LB in underneath coverage). Chalking it up to "rookie" masks the alarming nature of a lot of his performance.

      that is where you are wrong, you evil glennonite!The future for jameis the almighty is so bright, he has to dim it down for us mere mortals a little bit.Lest we go blind.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1571

      He had a rough outing but that's going to happen with all rookie QB's.  There were a few times I thought he looked really good and moved the team into scoring position, only to have the kicker mess up and otherwise good drive.  The kid doesn't have a strong running game, TE, or offensive line....meaning Winston is going to be asked and put pressure on himself to do too much, which leads to mistakes.  I wouldn't write him off until you put some pieces around him.  He's got tons of potential.

      Some pieces around him?  He has a lot more to work with than most rookies do.  We are in the middle 1/3 of the league in rushing yards, sacks allowed, and passing attempts so it looks like the line is pretty average.  As far as weapons go he's got Evans, VJax, ASJ, and Myers.  That's one of the better receiving corps in the league.  How many weapons does he need?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      He had a rough outing but that's going to happen with all rookie QB's.  There were a few times I thought he looked really good and moved the team into scoring position, only to have the kicker mess up and otherwise good drive.  The kid doesn't have a strong running game, TE, or offensive line....meaning Winston is going to be asked and put pressure on himself to do too much, which leads to mistakes.  I wouldn't write him off until you put some pieces around him.  He's got tons of potential.

      Some pieces around him?  He has a lot more to work with than most rookies do.  We are in the middle 1/3 of the league in rushing yards, sacks allowed, and passing attempts so it looks like the line is pretty average.  As far as weapons go he's got Evans, VJax, ASJ, and Myers.  That's one of the better receiving corps in the league.  How many weapons does he need?

      Maybe he needs Aaron Rodgers on the field.  ;)

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5

      He had a rough outing but that's going to happen with all rookie QB's.  There were a few times I thought he looked really good and moved the team into scoring position, only to have the kicker mess up and otherwise good drive.  The kid doesn't have a strong running game, TE, or offensive line....meaning Winston is going to be asked and put pressure on himself to do too much, which leads to mistakes.  I wouldn't write him off until you put some pieces around him.  He's got tons of potential.

      Some pieces around him?  He has a lot more to work with than most rookies do.  We are in the middle 1/3 of the league in rushing yards, sacks allowed, and passing attempts so it looks like the line is pretty average.  As far as weapons go he's got Evans, VJax, ASJ, and Myers.  That's one of the better receiving corps in the league.  How many weapons does he need?

      Maybe he needs Aaron Rodgers on the field.  ;)

      I was just sitting here trying to drink my Bucs sorrows away and read this and had to spit my drink out. Literally LOL'd.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2862

      4 picks...he looks lost against NFL D.

      Jameis had a bad game. Feel better now, Gomer?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1151

      4 picks...he looks lost against NFL D.

      Jameis had a bad game. Feel better now, Gomer?

      Lets look on the bright side. Only 50% of his NFL starts have been trash so far

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      He had a rough outing but that's going to happen with all rookie QB's.  There were a few times I thought he looked really good and moved the team into scoring position, only to have the kicker mess up and otherwise good drive.  The kid doesn't have a strong running game, TE, or offensive line....meaning Winston is going to be asked and put pressure on himself to do too much, which leads to mistakes.  I wouldn't write him off until you put some pieces around him.  He's got tons of potential.

      Some pieces around him?  He has a lot more to work with than most rookies do.  We are in the middle 1/3 of the league in rushing yards, sacks allowed, and passing attempts so it looks like the line is pretty average.  As far as weapons go he's got Evans, VJax, ASJ, and Myers.  That's one of the better receiving corps in the league.  How many weapons does he need?

      Just in case you missed it, he hasn't had ASJ and Evans both healthy in any games so far. And I an not sure that Evans is back to 100% healthy yet at all.It really hurts not having a good receiving option at TE. Myers does not get open very much. We sure could have used Timmy Wright these last few weeks.

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    • johnd

      Participant
      Post count: 333

      who did Glennon have to throw to during his starting reign?  or block for him?  Or run the ball for him?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2862

      4 picks...he looks lost against NFL D.

      Jameis had a bad game. Feel better now, Gomer?

      Lets look on the bright side. Only 50% of his NFL starts have been trash so far

      8-8 is not realistic with this defense.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 318

      4 picks...he looks lost against NFL D.

      Jameis had a bad game. Feel better now, Gomer?

      Lets look on the bright side. Only 50% of his NFL starts have been trash so far

      8-8 is not realistic with this defense.

      How many pick 6(s) did Winston throw at FSU?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6

      He had a rough outing but that's going to happen with all rookie QB's.  There were a few times I thought he looked really good and moved the team into scoring position, only to have the kicker mess up and otherwise good drive.  The kid doesn't have a strong running game, TE, or offensive line....meaning Winston is going to be asked and put pressure on himself to do too much, which leads to mistakes.  I wouldn't write him off until you put some pieces around him.  He's got tons of potential.

      Some pieces around him?  He has a lot more to work with than most rookies do.  We are in the middle 1/3 of the league in rushing yards, sacks allowed, and passing attempts so it looks like the line is pretty average.  As far as weapons go he's got Evans, VJax, ASJ, and Myers.  That's one of the better receiving corps in the league.  How many weapons does he need?

      All good QB's need a decent Offensive line and a running game to start.  I saw your game today....No offense but your O-line is barely adequate. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      OP is a Mariota fan-boi to the max. Not surprising. Go back to the kids table with Boid. Non-simpletons know that rookie QBs will have days like this. Deal with it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 881

      The kid needed to sit on the bench for a year. He came out of college 2 years early so he’s already got that working against him. But the team around him is terrible as well.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 58

      The kid doesn't have a strong running game, TE, or offensive line....meaning Winston is going to be asked and put pressure on himself to do too much, which leads to mistakes.  I wouldn't write him off until you put some pieces around him.  He's got tons of potential.

      Martin carried the ball 20 times for 106 yards (5.3 average per carry) and a TD. What constitutes a "strong running game" for you?Winston looked like shit today. Period. Long wind up, bad footwork, throwing behind his receivers. Are you going to try to blame 4 INTs on the OL? How long are you Winston apologists going to make excuses for the kid?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      OP is a Mariota fan-boi to the max. Not surprising. Go back to the kids table with Boid. Non-simpletons know that rookie QBs will have days like this. Deal with it.

      No, wrong answer. You have me mistaken for someone else.I am calling it like I see it...that game was unadulterated TRASH...when he wasn't throwing picks, he was missing the target. The apologists can sit around and make excuses for Winston, but the damn truth is that he looks LOST so often. 4 fucking picks is "a day like this"? Bullshit, that is a cop out answerSome of you idiots (Cyrus) actually think this team could go 8-8...your fucking delusionalBut hey, don't worry about Winston and Lovie will lead us to promise land

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 955

      I can appreciate the haters and all the hateraide being consumed on this board.  It’s your right to do so, so hate on.  However, what did you think you’d see.  Those of you saying he’s not NFL ready see Peyton Manning’s rookie year when he led the league in picks. I'm not asking any of you schmucks to change your way of thinking cuz the only reason you're here is to be negative. I will appeal to reasonable for real football fans and Buccaneer enthusiast, my only hope in this horrible play all around this kid is that he is learning.  I for one am glad he is having a tough time.  If it was easy he'd have nothing to grow from. My only hope is that he is learning from this experience.  It's why they threw him into the fire in the first place.  Glennon had his chance, in the fire and faired no better.  Meaning he didn't WIN either.  You can look at all the stats you want, the only stat that matters is the numbers on the scoreboard at the end of the game.  I wonder why some of you schmucks, errrr, Buccaneer fans aren't all over this defense that is not even close.  They are just as bad as the offense at this point...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 861

      ^^^They have been . Have you not been reading all the "Fire Lovie"  threads?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      s2joc.jpg

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      Chev, There is not doubt that growing pains are expected...but yesterday was some serious regression. A pick 6 before most fans could even get comfortable. FIVE turnovers is NOT learning and progressing. You can say we are only here to be negative...but, WTF is there to be positive about with the team right now?? Seriously...name ONE positive aspect of that game yesterday. Special teams is a hot mess, I'm not sure our kicking situation could get any more miserable. The offense has shown some signs of life, but the turnover machine keeps shooting himself in the foot, and the defense can't make a stop when it really matters. The Bucs had an 8 play drive that ate up over 4 minutes of clock time...good solid drive and 7 points...so what does the D do? They allow Carolina to march down the field and score...sucks the life right out of the stadium! WE want to cheer and be loud, but this team takes that opportunity away from us.637 days without a home victory....and counting...

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    • suesweat

      Participant
      Post count: 1335

      I’d put the fumble from center on Jameis too. He had 5 turn overs in that game.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      COME ON GUYS! LOVIE IS GOING TO TURN THIS AROUND! YOU GUYS HAVE TO HAVE FAITH!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 955

      Chev, There is not doubt that growing pains are expected...but yesterday was some serious regression. A pick 6 before most fans could even get comfortable. FIVE turnovers is NOT learning and progressing. You can say we are only here to be negative...but, WTF is there to be positive about with the team right now?? Seriously...name ONE positive aspect of that game yesterday. Special teams is a hot mess, I'm not sure our kicking situation could get any more miserable. The offense has shown some signs of life, but the turnover machine keeps shooting himself in the foot, and the defense can't make a stop when it really matters. The Bucs had an 8 play drive that ate up over 4 minutes of clock time...good solid drive and 7 points...so what does the D do? They allow Carolina to march down the field and score...sucks the life right out of the stadium! WE want to cheer and be loud, but this team takes that opportunity away from us.637 days without a home victory....and counting...

      You act like I didn't watch that debacle.  I'm not making excuses.  I'm saying what did you expect?  I'm saying it's easy to come in here and complain and just be down right ugly about it all.  Crap you think I'm happy with this oline right now?  Even with over 100 yards rushing.  You gotta give most of that credit to Doug.  He was getting hit even before the line of scrimmage and still made plays.  However you got receivers not running route correctly. Sure Jameis crapped the bed.  But how much help are we giving this kid? Defensively I just wanna scream!  The missed tackles are pissing me to no end.  So it ain't like I got on Pewter and Red colored glasses.  I get that there is a lot to complain about.  But that's just to easy to do.  Again I'd like to think this kid is learning, yes we have to live through a year of him getting the speed of the game, leaning to readf defenses, and understanding good decision making at this level.  Nonr of that is learned after game one or in the preseason.  Each team we faced is a new test and he's not going to be making a's as a rookie.  What we should hope is that with the football IQ he has that he is taking it all in and processing it for the future.  Be nice to see some progress consistently but we may not see that until down the stretch of the season.  All of this is to be expected...to have any other mindset is not realistic.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      COME ON GUYS! LOVIE IS GOING TO TURN THIS AROUND! YOU GUYS HAVE TO HAVE FAITH!

      the almighty winston would gladly thank you for your support. However, he is busy stuffing down crablegs and banging loose butterfaces currently.If you leave a message for lovie, via prayermail, he will surely answer any and all questions, especially of another loyal follower such as ye!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 583

      Winston is who we thought he was.  He may throw for some big yards but he will turn the ball over a lot in the process.  There is NOTHING on his resume that suggests that he will ever be anything other than a guy that throws a ton of picks.  He is Leftwich/Russel and anyone who thinks otherwise simply is not choosing to see what is out there now and was out there last year.  The issues coming into the draft; footwork, long delivery, generally inaccurate, and the least athletic QB in the draft based on combine results have shown themselves.  His pluses are apparently the team mates like him and he is supposed to be great at reading defenses.  Id put Trent Dilfer in that category too.  Well that might be going a bit too far. :)Its not a coincidence that the one game we won he threw the ball 21 times.  That is the recipe for success going forward since we are stuck with this guy and no other coach is going to come in to work with him so we are stuck with Lovie too.  Hope the D improves and Doug and Sims can form a 1/2 punch in the run game.  Oh and we need a kicker too. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 175

      I’m giving Jameis somewhat of a pass and I’m not even an FSU fan. He's a rookie on a REALLY bad team, with a REALLY bad coach, what do you expect? I saw some accuracy and decision making issues on 2 of Norman's picks that are concerning. My question is why did we keep throwing it his way? FEED THE BALL TO EVANS.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 337

      I'm giving Jameis somewhat of a pass and I'm not even an FSU fan. He's a rookie on a REALLY bad team, with a REALLY bad coach, what do you expect? I saw some accuracy and decision making issues on 2 of Norman's picks that are concerning. My question is why did we keep throwing it his way? FEED THE BALL TO EVANS.

      How does being on a "bad team" make him float a ball to the inside shoulder of a receiver running an out route?Again.For another Pick-6.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 583

      That’s just it.  The TEAM really isnt that bad.  If you saw the game, you’d know the Bucs really should have won quite easily expect for the monsoon of turnovers and the worst Kicker we have ever had here.  Throw in the forced fumble that naturally turned into a TD for the bad guys and you have the makings of a team that really isn’t that far away.  At least the rest of the team.  Doug and Sims played well.  The receivers are high end by most anyone's standards.  The bad OLine hasn't been THAT horrible.  Everyone respects our OC.  Its all on #3.  No team can win with 5 turnovers from your QB.  The problem is #3 isnt going anywhere so that will be that as far as winning goes. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1176

      That's just it.  The TEAM really isnt that bad.  If you saw the game, you'd know the Bucs really should have won quite easily expect for the monsoon of turnovers and the worst Kicker we have ever had here.  Throw in the forced fumble that naturally turned into a TD for the bad guys and you have the makings of a team that really isn't that far away.  At least the rest of the team.  Doug and Sims played well.  The receivers are high end by most anyone's standards.  The bad OLine hasn't been THAT horrible.  Everyone respects our OC.  Its all on #3.  No team can win with 5 turnovers from your QB.  The problem is #3 isnt going anywhere so that will be that as far as winning goes.

      The truth is with a decent kicker and Glennon at QB we would have won both or at least one of the last two games. I thought Winston was suppose to be an upgrade over Glennon according to the PR prophets.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 169

      Let’s just agree on one thing…#PROREADY is not really pro-ready. You can’t keep making excuses – O-line, coaching, receivers and what not. A “Pro-ready” QB is supposed to play like a veteran and make the team around them better – and our QB is playing like a rookie. Just to keep things in perspective - Look at how Oregon is playing now compared to where they were last few years - they're out of the top 25. Think Mariota's presence was masking the weakness in other areas on that team?http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/09/27/utah-utes-beat-oregon-ducksCompare that to FSU after Winston - still 4-0 and firmly in the top 25. On the other hand, we have another QB - supposed to be a few years away from being an NFL ready QB - playing really well for a rookie, and keeping a cellar team competitive in all their games. Sure, he could be another RG III - but the people using this comparison seem to gloss over the horrible leg injury he had and its impact on RG III's career.So this is who we're stuck with - a rookie who (hopefully) will get better and show signs of improvement as the season progresses. What we don't have is a bona-fide superstar who can make the whole team play at an elite level for the next decade.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 337

      The Mariota = RG3 stuff is lazy.In his rookie year, RG3 was running tons of read-option stuff and averaging 10+ carries per game over his first 3 starts. Through Mariota's first 3 starts, he's been playing from the pocket and averaging less than 2 carries per game. RG3 looked like a college QB running a college offense in the NFL. Mariota looks like an NFL QB running an NFL offense.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 253

      Not saying we should go for it but what is the record for pick sixes thrown in a season? Player? Team?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      Beware of content…it is sadhttp://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/bucs-turning-point-week-4-like-watching-an-adam-sandler-movie/2248418Winston's picks were turruble throws...just turruble...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 253

      It’s just too bad no one was around to let us know JambYOLOballs had a bit of an accuracy and interception problem before we drafted him.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1151

      Jameis slurpers should admit its a worrying sign he looks this bad

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 955

      Jameis slurpers should admit its a worrying sign he looks this bad

      LOL, this is the crap that just makes me crazy....

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 169

      Jameis slurpers should admit its a worrying sign he looks this bad

      LOL, this is the crap that just makes me crazy....

      Chev - with all due respect - what drives me (and a lot of rational folks here) crazy is the amount of hype shoved down our throats by the #ProReady crowd, the publication here and the FSU homers. Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect. Not saying Winston is a bust - but he's as far removed from being "Pro-ready" as any average rookie QB. That starting QB on the Titans however...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 175

      I'm giving Jameis somewhat of a pass and I'm not even an FSU fan. He's a rookie on a REALLY bad team, with a REALLY bad coach, what do you expect? I saw some accuracy and decision making issues on 2 of Norman's picks that are concerning. My question is why did we keep throwing it his way? FEED THE BALL TO EVANS.

      How does being on a "bad team" make him float a ball to the inside shoulder of a receiver running an out route?Again.For another Pick-6.

      I didn't say being on a bad team made him throw a pick six...poor timing, mechanics, and decision making most likely did, which can be improved on as he gains more experience. He had an awful game, i'm not arguing that. But to say he just flat out sucks right now this early in his career is just asinine.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      I'm giving Jameis somewhat of a pass and I'm not even an FSU fan. He's a rookie on a REALLY bad team, with a REALLY bad coach, what do you expect? I saw some accuracy and decision making issues on 2 of Norman's picks that are concerning. My question is why did we keep throwing it his way? FEED THE BALL TO EVANS.

      How does being on a "bad team" make him float a ball to the inside shoulder of a receiver running an out route?Again.For another Pick-6.

      His ability to read coverages that are meant to trick him seems very elementary at this point and this combined with his abundance of (irrational) confidence is another red flag that is difficult to project.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 955

      Jameis slurpers should admit its a worrying sign he looks this bad

      LOL, this is the crap that just makes me crazy....

      Chev - with all due respect - what drives me (and a lot of rational folks here) crazy is the amount of hype shoved down our throats by the #ProReady crowd, the publication here and the FSU homers. Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect. Not saying Winston is a bust - but he's as far removed from being "Pro-ready" as any average rookie QB. That starting QB on the Titans however...

      Cmon dawg how lame is that an excuse for not understanding the situation of this franchise.  Just because people pimped this kid over the other and he's not a world beater from day one you got the A$$, really? So basically your view is short sided and all you can see is today.  You have no reasonable thoughts for the future? People in Indy didn't boo Peyton, in Denver they didn't boo Elway.  Again what did yall expect from the rookie?  And not everyone outside of Florida like Mariota.  To me it's not even the point anymore.  Both teams feel like they got what they wanted. We're the only ones still going back and forth...wishing for a guy you think because he is doing well now is going to be better than what we have...unbelievable.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      I didn't say being on a bad team made him throw a pick six...poor timing, mechanics, and decision making most likely did, which can be improved on as he gains more experience. He had an awful game, i'm not arguing that. But to say he just flat out sucks right now this early in his career is just asinine.

      red, it is not asinine to say that he flat out sucks right now. His throws that were picked off yesterday we horrendous throws. 4 picks and a fumble flat out sucks!!!Now, that doesn't mean he is a bust or he will always suck...it just means that he has A LOT of work to do. His accuracy is probably the most concerning thing in my mind. He has shown to throw behind receivers on a regular basis...accuracy is one of the hardest traits to fix for a QB. Chris Landry has said it on a few occasions. I WANT Winston to play better...the future of our franchise is on his shoulders...and he is failing.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1417

      I didn't say being on a bad team made him throw a pick six...poor timing, mechanics, and decision making most likely did, which can be improved on as he gains more experience. He had an awful game, i'm not arguing that. But to say he just flat out sucks right now this early in his career is just asinine.

      red, it is not asinine to say that he flat out sucks right now. His throws that were picked off yesterday we horrendous throws. 4 picks and a fumble flat out sucks!!!Now, that doesn't mean he is a bust or he will always suck...it just means that he has A LOT of work to do. His accuracy is probably the most concerning thing in my mind. He has shown to throw behind receivers on a regular basis...accuracy is one of the hardest traits to fix for a QB. Chris Landry has said it on a few occasions. I WANT Winston to play better...the future of our franchise is on his shoulders...and he is failing.

      Certainly not asinine to say yesterday sucked. He wasn't good at all. He's also had 2 solid games. If he was terrible throughout I'd be worried but we wasn't. Everything else on this team I am. We can't keep pissing down our leg and hope it stops getting us wet. Our discipline is that of a 3 year old.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 169

      Jameis slurpers should admit its a worrying sign he looks this bad

      LOL, this is the crap that just makes me crazy....

      Chev - with all due respect - what drives me (and a lot of rational folks here) crazy is the amount of hype shoved down our throats by the #ProReady crowd, the publication here and the FSU homers. Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect. Not saying Winston is a bust - but he's as far removed from being "Pro-ready" as any average rookie QB. That starting QB on the Titans however...

      Cmon dawg how lame is that an excuse for not understanding the situation of this franchise.  Just because people pimped this kid over the other and he's not a world beater from day one you got the A$$, really? So basically your view is short sided and all you can see is today.  You have no reasonable thoughts for the future? People in Indy didn't boo Peyton, in Denver they didn't boo Elway.  Again what did yall expect from the rookie?  And not everyone outside of Florida like Mariota.  To me it's not even the point anymore.  Both teams feel like they got what they wanted. We're the only ones still going back and forth...wishing for a guy you think because he is doing well now is going to be better than what we have...unbelievable.

      Dude- I'm not getting on yours or anyone's A$$. I meet a lot of educated, football-knowledgable fans and people in the business. Outside of here, the majority opinion was in favor of the other guy. Most folks I've known for years statred making fun of our #ProReady pick before a game was played. Part of it was earned (Rape allegations, crab legs, etc.), some of it was undeserved. What drove me crazy was the cult-like following of the #ProReady crowd. It still drives me nuts that the same people who were so vehemently defending the pick and calling him "Pro-ready" are now justifying that he's "Just a rookie". He is a rookie and I hope he gets better, but enough of the "Pro-ready" line already - it was a sell job at best and the evidence is in front of us.As for what's wrong with the franchise...its the decisions that come from the top - right from the firing of the most successful coach we've had to last three coaching hires who were suppossed to be better. Smart folks use their intelligence to buid fortunes...the ones who simply inherit their fortunes typically squander it away. What ails this franchise is the lack or leadership and business acumen at the very top....and it's leading to a lot of poor decisions.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 177

      Jameis slurpers should admit its a worrying sign he looks this bad

      I am a fan and think Jameis will be just fine as long as we don't screw him up.  Too much talent, production, and work ethic for him not to improve.  So, I guess you can call me "slurper," as you like to refer.That said, I am worried.  Like I said, I have faith in Jameis, but I just don't see him being put in position to succeed right now.  CurtR1995, who I think is an utter hater when it comes to all things Jameis, has it right above when he said the formula for success for the team is JW throwing 20-25 times a game and relying heavily on a steady run game and swarming defense.  THAT is the formula for success for any rookie pocket passer, especially one that is being groomed in an offense that relies heavily on play action and vertical timing routes.  We have zero speed on offense, no underneath threats (could Simms be used in the slot?), and big receivers that rely on size and physicality rather than speed and separation.  In short, we are giving our rookie QB very few easy completions, and asking him to do things that even great QBs don't develop for the early part of their career.  This is a stark contrast to the way other recent pocket passers have been groomed (i.e., Flacco, Roethlesberger, Brady, etc.).  It is a trial by fire in every sense of the word, and I do question whether it is the right approach with a 21 year old rookie who would otherwise be in his Redshirt Junior season in college ball.  He did some "graduate level" stuff at FSU, but the jump to the NFL is MASSIVE for any QB.  If we are going to throw him into the deep end of the pool, we should at least give him some water wings. That said, here is an interesting nugget for you.  Rookie QBs who have thrown at least 4 picks in a game since 2000 include Cam Newton (#1 overall), Matthew Stafford (x2)(#1 overall), Alex Smith (#1 overall), Mark Sanchez (#9 overall), and Joey Harrington (#3 overall).  On one hand, I'd argue that this isn't very reassuring given that none have turned into a bonafide franchise QB (although the argument could be made that Newton and Stafford have been on poor teams).  On the other hand, all of these guys were high picks for a reason.  Winston's performance yesterday is not unique and it is not unprecedented.  I think this is a really bad team looking for a savior to erase last year's travesty.  JW is not ready to play that role, and I would argue that history teaches us that he shouldn't have to. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      He had a rough outing but that's going to happen with all rookie QB's.  There were a few times I thought he looked really good and moved the team into scoring position, only to have the kicker mess up and otherwise good drive.  The kid doesn't have a strong running game, TE, or offensive line....meaning Winston is going to be asked and put pressure on himself to do too much, which leads to mistakes.  I wouldn't write him off until you put some pieces around him.  He's got tons of potential.

      Good post.Let me add that this is the first year Koetter is installing the offense and the Bucs are starting three rookies on offense.  This thread exposes a lot of the fans that want results now or they will cry about it like babies lol.

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    • slpstk

      Participant
      Post count: 18

      Someone get me some more crab legs. I’m in this for the long haul and I’m hungry.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 253

      Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect.

      I must have been in another universe all together. I'm sorry I wasn't here, 'cause all I recall hearing was how great he was on the field and the only concern brought up was his off the field issues. Again it wasn't on these boards, but on say ESPN, Yahoo Sports, just generally in public, if your brought up his ints or wind up, or questioned his accuracy or really any aspect of his actual football ability you were looked at like some freak, some clueless idiot. It was impossible to have a conversation.  If it was just two or three of five talking heads they were all like, he's great, next coming, Best since Luck, can't miss... and then the one dude that was like oh he made a bad joke in the lounge no way I'd touch him because of that, but on the field flawless. Would have been nice to run into some of these, Mariotta clearly the better pick folks.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect.

      Sorry, but that's just nonsense. I pointed out last week after searching for 2-3 minutes tops that Daniel Jeremiah, Ron Wolf, Mariucci, and Kurt Warner all rated him above Mariota. And there were others who had Mariota higher because of the off-field questions. That said he was terrible the other day. Bad for a vet, bad for a rookie. Can't dig holes like that in this league.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1550

      The Mariota = RG3 stuff is lazy.In his rookie year, RG3 was running tons of read-option stuff and averaging 10+ carries per game over his first 3 starts. Through Mariota's first 3 starts, he's been playing from the pocket and averaging less than 2 carries per game. RG3 looked like a college QB running a college offense in the NFL. Mariota looks like an NFL QB running an NFL offense.

      About as lazy as someone comparing Jameis to Leftwich, Vince Young or JaMarcus Russell.Mariota is running the Oregon offense in the NFL. Ken Whisenhunt completely changed his offense for him. Anyone with half a brain can see that.With that said, the numbers are looking good for him.This thread isn't about him. Its about Winston and yes, Jameis was TURR-ible yesterday. Downright awful.And for those who don't want to hear it, such is life with a rookie.Luck through his first four games96 of 177 54% 1,208 7 TDs, 5 Ints 2-2 record, 9 sacks QB Rating 77.1Winston through his first four games73 of 133 55% 965 6 TDs, 7 ints 1-3 record, 9 sacks QB Rating 71.2While Luck was superior in each category, Winston isn’t that far off.BTW, for those wondering – Teddy Bridgewater threw 2 TDs and 5 ints in his first four starts for Minnesota (one of those against the Bucs).Derek Carr threw 4 TDs and 4 Ints.Blake Bortles threw 3 TDs and 8 ints.Ryan Tannehill threw 2 TDs and 5 ints…For most rookies, this happens.FWIW, Jameis is on pace for 3860 yds passing, 24 TDs, 28 ints. The INTs are high but most rational people would say that's a pretty decent rookie season.If he can manage to keep the picks down in his final 12 games maybe it will be a really good one.

      Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect.

      Sorry, but that's just nonsense. I pointed out last week after searching for 2-3 minutes tops that Daniel Jeremiah, Ron Wolf, Mariucci, and Kurt Warner all rated him above Mariota. And there were others who had Mariota higher because of the off-field questions. That said he was terrible the other day. Bad for a vet, bad for a rookie. Can't dig holes like that in this league.

      I think it was about as split down the middle as our fanbase was. There were experts in for Mariota. Experts in for Jameis. It is what it is. Revisionist history now and none of it really matters. There's no do-overs.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      Definitely had a piss-poor game… No doubt.  He was definitely throwing the ball on quite a few occasions to places he had no business doing so…  And he will do it again - to expect something else is an unrealistic bias.What I want to see is how he (and for that matter - this team) comes back from that nonsense we watched yesterday.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 648

      The Mariota = RG3 stuff is lazy.In his rookie year, RG3 was running tons of read-option stuff and averaging 10+ carries per game over his first 3 starts. Through Mariota's first 3 starts, he's been playing from the pocket and averaging less than 2 carries per game. RG3 looked like a college QB running a college offense in the NFL. Mariota looks like an NFL QB running an NFL offense.

      About as lazy as someone comparing Jameis to Leftwich, Vince Young or JaMarcus Russell.Mariota is running the Oregon offense in the NFL. Ken Whisenhunt completely changed his offense for him. Anyone with half a brain can see that.With that said, the numbers are looking good for him.This thread isn't about him. Its about Winston and yes, Jameis was TURR-ible yesterday. Downright awful.And for those who don't want to hear it, such is life with a rookie.Luck through his first four games96 of 177 54% 1,208 7 TDs, 5 Ints 2-2 record, 9 sacks QB Rating 77.1Winston through his first four games73 of 133 55% 965 6 TDs, 7 ints 1-3 record, 9 sacks QB Rating 71.2While Luck was superior in each category, Winston isn’t that far off.BTW, for those wondering – Teddy Bridgewater threw 2 TDs and 5 ints in his first four starts for Minnesota (one of those against the Bucs).Derek Carr threw 4 TDs and 4 Ints.Blake Bortles threw 3 TDs and 8 ints.Ryan Tannehill threw 2 TDs and 5 ints…For most rookies, this happens.FWIW, Jameis is on pace for 3860 yds passing, 24 TDs, 28 ints. The INTs are high but most rational people would say that's a pretty decent rookie season.If he can manage to keep the picks down in his final 12 games maybe it will be a really good one.

      Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect.

      Sorry, but that's just nonsense. I pointed out last week after searching for 2-3 minutes tops that Daniel Jeremiah, Ron Wolf, Mariucci, and Kurt Warner all rated him above Mariota. And there were others who had Mariota higher because of the off-field questions. That said he was terrible the other day. Bad for a vet, bad for a rookie. Can't dig holes like that in this league.

      I think it was about as split down the middle as our fanbase was. There were experts in for Mariota. Experts in for Jameis. It is what it is. Revisionist history now and none of it really matters. There's no do-overs.

      We found another sane fan

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 337

      The Mariota = RG3 stuff is lazy.In his rookie year, RG3 was running tons of read-option stuff and averaging 10+ carries per game over his first 3 starts. Through Mariota's first 3 starts, he's been playing from the pocket and averaging less than 2 carries per game. RG3 looked like a college QB running a college offense in the NFL. Mariota looks like an NFL QB running an NFL offense.

      About as lazy as someone comparing Jameis to Leftwich, Vince Young or JaMarcus Russell.Mariota is running the Oregon offense in the NFL. Ken Whisenhunt completely changed his offense for him. Anyone with half a brain can see that.With that said, the numbers are looking good for him.This thread isn't about him. Its about Winston and yes, Jameis was TURR-ible yesterday. Downright awful.And for those who don't want to hear it, such is life with a rookie.Luck through his first four games96 of 177 54% 1,208 7 TDs, 5 Ints 2-2 record, 9 sacks QB Rating 77.1Winston through his first four games73 of 133 55% 965 6 TDs, 7 ints 1-3 record, 9 sacks QB Rating 71.2While Luck was superior in each category, Winston isn’t that far off.BTW, for those wondering – Teddy Bridgewater threw 2 TDs and 5 ints in his first four starts for Minnesota (one of those against the Bucs).Derek Carr threw 4 TDs and 4 Ints.Blake Bortles threw 3 TDs and 8 ints.Ryan Tannehill threw 2 TDs and 5 ints…For most rookies, this happens.FWIW, Jameis is on pace for 3860 yds passing, 24 TDs, 28 ints. The INTs are high but most rational people would say that's a pretty decent rookie season.If he can manage to keep the picks down in his final 12 games maybe it will be a really good one.

      Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect.

      Sorry, but that's just nonsense. I pointed out last week after searching for 2-3 minutes tops that Daniel Jeremiah, Ron Wolf, Mariucci, and Kurt Warner all rated him above Mariota. And there were others who had Mariota higher because of the off-field questions. That said he was terrible the other day. Bad for a vet, bad for a rookie. Can't dig holes like that in this league.

      I think it was about as split down the middle as our fanbase was. There were experts in for Mariota. Experts in for Jameis. It is what it is. Revisionist history now and none of it really matters. There's no do-overs.

      We found another sane fan

      Except that it repeats the tired story of "ALL ROOKIE QBS STRUGGLE" by posting numbers without context (even though in these numbers, Luck kicks the crap out of Jameis by averaging an INT per 35 attempts v. Jameis 19 attempts). The stats are only part of the story -- it's the repeating the same mistakes over and over again. The pick-6 was the *exact* same mistake (throwing an out route to the inside of the receiver with too little velocity) he made in week 1 that led to another pick-6. Zero correction made after being burned, badly. The pick to the LB was another example of not seeing an underneath coverage, something that's all over his college tape and something that bit him in week 1 as well.It's more balls thrown behind WRs (the pick he threw behind V-Jax, obviously showing he's learned nothing from film last week, where he killed a drive in the RZ by delivering a ball behind V-Jax that could have moved the ball inside the 10), more YOLO balls just thrown up for grabs when he panics, etc.I could live with a 4 INT game if it was new stuff he was screwing up, but it's the same stuff week after week. He's late on throws, doesn't put enough zip on a lot of his throws, and still has that godawful baseball windup that lets defenders get an extra step of break on his passes.

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    • majbodoh

      Participant
      Post count: 111

      4 picks...he looks lost against NFL D.Let the apologists make excuses...especially the FSU fanboys

      Peyton Manning's rookie season:- Week 1: 1 TD, 3 INT, 56.6 PCT, 302 Yards, 58.6 Rating- Week 2: 1 TD, 3 INT, 63.6 PCT, 188 Yards, 51.1 Rating- Week 3: 0 TD, 2 INT, 45.5 PCT, 193 Yards, 39.3 Rating- Week 4: 1 TD, 3 INT, 59.4 PCT, 309 Yards, 63.2 Rating- Week 5: 1 TD, 1 INT, 52.2 PCT, 137 Yards, 66.8 Rating- Week 6: 2 TD, 2 INT, 48.8 PCT, 235 Yards, 62.6 Rating- Week 7: 3 TD, 0 INT, 60.0 PCT, 231 Yards, 117.5 Rating- Week 8: Bye Week- Week 9: 2 TD, 2 INT, 57.7 PCT, 278 Yards, 69.2 Rating- Week 10: 1 TD, 2 INT, 52.4 PCT, 140 Yards, 47.7 Rating- Week 11: 3 TD, 2 INT, 59.1 PCT, 276 Yards, 81.2 Rating- Week 12: 1 TD, 2 INT, 48.3 PCT, 164 Yards, 48.6 Rating- Week 13: 3 TD, 1 INT, 64.3 PCT, 357 Yards, 105.0 Rating- Week 14: 2 TD, 2 INT, 70.4 PCT, 159 Yards, 79.1 Rating- Week 15: 3 TD, 0 INT, 65.4 PCT, 210 Yards, 128.7 Rating- Week 16: 1 TD, 1 INT, 59.0 PCT, 335 Yards, 84.9 Rating- Week 17: 1 TD, 2 INT, 50.0 PCT, 225 Yards, 56.6 Rating- Overall: 26 TD, 28 INT, 56.7 PCT, 3739 Yards, 71.2 RatingAs you can see he had 7 games with more INTs than TDs, 4 games with more TDs than INTs, and 5 games with the same amount of TDs and INTs. And apart from six games with decent QB ratings, by in large his QB rating was pretty terrible for the most part. His breakout performance didn't come until his seventh game, though he did lose that game. Now look at Jameis Winston's rookie season so far:- Week 1: 2 TD, 2 INT, 48.5 PCT, 210 Yards, 64.0 Rating- Week 2: 1 TD, 0 INT, 66.7 PCT, 207 Yards, 114.6 Rating- Week 3: 1 TD, 1 INT, 47.2 PCT, 261 Yards, 69.3 Rating- Week 4: 2 TD, 4 INT, 60.5 PCT, 287 Yards, 57.0 Rating- Overall: 6 TD, 7 INT, 54.9 PCT, 965 Yards, 71.2 RatingHe's had his struggles, but he has also had some good drives, and by in large his performance in week 2 was pretty good. His stats aren't too dissimilar to Peyton Manning's in his rookie season, and while I am not going to proclaim that he is the second coming of Peyton Manning, or that he will become as good as Peyton Manning, what I am instead highlighting is that a future first ballot hall of fame quarterback, a multiple record holding quarterback, struggled in his first season in the league. So this is not a time to worry that we picked the wrong guy, or that Jameis is going to be one of the biggest draft busts in history. Give him a break and use your energy to back him. If he still plays like this after two or three seasons, fine, but he's played four regular season games and some already think the sky is falling...  ::)

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1540

      4 picks...he looks lost against NFL D.

      Jameis had a bad game. Feel better now, Gomer?

      "Citizens arrest! Citizens arrest!"

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      Jameis slurpers should admit its a worrying sign he looks this bad

      LOL, this is the crap that just makes me crazy....

      Chev - with all due respect - what drives me (and a lot of rational folks here) crazy is the amount of hype shoved down our throats by the #ProReady crowd, the publication here and the FSU homers. Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect. Not saying Winston is a bust - but he's as far removed from being "Pro-ready" as any average rookie QB. That starting QB on the Titans however...

      Cmon dawg how lame is that an excuse for not understanding the situation of this franchise.  Just because people pimped this kid over the other and he's not a world beater from day one you got the A$$, really? So basically your view is short sided and all you can see is today.  You have no reasonable thoughts for the future? People in Indy didn't boo Peyton, in Denver they didn't boo Elway.  Again what did yall expect from the rookie?  And not everyone outside of Florida like Mariota.  To me it's not even the point anymore.  Both teams feel like they got what they wanted. We're the only ones still going back and forth...wishing for a guy you think because he is doing well now is going to be better than what we have...unbelievable.

      Dude- I'm not getting on yours or anyone's A$$. I meet a lot of educated, football-knowledgable fans and people in the business. Outside of here, the majority opinion was in favor of the other guy. Most folks I've known for years statred making fun of our #ProReady pick before a game was played. Part of it was earned (Rape allegations, crab legs, etc.), some of it was undeserved. What drove me crazy was the cult-like following of the #ProReady crowd. It still drives me nuts that the same people who were so vehemently defending the pick and calling him "Pro-ready" are now justifying that he's "Just a rookie". He is a rookie and I hope he gets better, but enough of the "Pro-ready" line already - it was a sell job at best and the evidence is in front of us.As for what's wrong with the franchise...its the decisions that come from the top - right from the firing of the most successful coach we've had to last three coaching hires who were suppossed to be better. Smart folks use their intelligence to buid fortunes...the ones who simply inherit their fortunes typically squander it away. What ails this franchise is the lack or leadership and business acumen at the very top....and it's leading to a lot of poor decisions.

      Now who would have thought that possible, that friends who I think know the game from around the country watched Winston and Mariota and felt that pretty strong about Winston, without being negative about Mariota.  Crazy isn't it.  The buccaneer fandom has taking a beating since Gruden was fired - a whole other story - and I suspect it will continue until this team is winning again.  And honestly, I can't say that isn't appropriate. So see, folks can agree about some stuff, and disagree without being azzholes on other issues.  Neat isn't it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      4 picks...he looks lost against NFL D.

      Jameis had a bad game. Feel better now, Gomer?

      "Citizens arrest! Citizens arrest!"

      Well played Mark.I see the Jaboo apologist tour continues with Cyrus!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6

      He had a rough outing but that's going to happen with all rookie QB's.  There were a few times I thought he looked really good and moved the team into scoring position, only to have the kicker mess up and otherwise good drive.  The kid doesn't have a strong running game, TE, or offensive line....meaning Winston is going to be asked and put pressure on himself to do too much, which leads to mistakes.  I wouldn't write him off until you put some pieces around him.  He's got tons of potential.

      Good post.Let me add that this is the first year Koetter is installing the offense and the Bucs are starting three rookies on offense.  This thread exposes a lot of the fans that want results now or they will cry about it like babies lol.

      Thank you....  the funny this is, I was called a Winston apologist for posting this and I'm not even a Bucs fan.  LOL.  A lot of Panther fans said the same type of things about Cam his first couple of seasons as well.  When a QB is drafted 1st overall, people tend to lose perspective and expect a kid with no NFL experience to play like a seasoned veteran.  On top of that, the Panthers have a good defense and game planned to disguise coverages hoping to confuse Winston.  ALL rookies QB's have games like this so some of these guys need to go ahead and accept it.  As a division rival, I thought the kid had some solid drives and (at times) looked like he could eventually be a very good player.  Only time will tell.  Good luck.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1550

      The Mariota = RG3 stuff is lazy.In his rookie year, RG3 was running tons of read-option stuff and averaging 10+ carries per game over his first 3 starts. Through Mariota's first 3 starts, he's been playing from the pocket and averaging less than 2 carries per game. RG3 looked like a college QB running a college offense in the NFL. Mariota looks like an NFL QB running an NFL offense.

      About as lazy as someone comparing Jameis to Leftwich, Vince Young or JaMarcus Russell.Mariota is running the Oregon offense in the NFL. Ken Whisenhunt completely changed his offense for him. Anyone with half a brain can see that.With that said, the numbers are looking good for him.This thread isn't about him. Its about Winston and yes, Jameis was TURR-ible yesterday. Downright awful.And for those who don't want to hear it, such is life with a rookie.Luck through his first four games96 of 177 54% 1,208 7 TDs, 5 Ints 2-2 record, 9 sacks QB Rating 77.1Winston through his first four games73 of 133 55% 965 6 TDs, 7 ints 1-3 record, 9 sacks QB Rating 71.2While Luck was superior in each category, Winston isn’t that far off.BTW, for those wondering – Teddy Bridgewater threw 2 TDs and 5 ints in his first four starts for Minnesota (one of those against the Bucs).Derek Carr threw 4 TDs and 4 Ints.Blake Bortles threw 3 TDs and 8 ints.Ryan Tannehill threw 2 TDs and 5 ints…For most rookies, this happens.FWIW, Jameis is on pace for 3860 yds passing, 24 TDs, 28 ints. The INTs are high but most rational people would say that's a pretty decent rookie season.If he can manage to keep the picks down in his final 12 games maybe it will be a really good one.

      Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect.

      Sorry, but that's just nonsense. I pointed out last week after searching for 2-3 minutes tops that Daniel Jeremiah, Ron Wolf, Mariucci, and Kurt Warner all rated him above Mariota. And there were others who had Mariota higher because of the off-field questions. That said he was terrible the other day. Bad for a vet, bad for a rookie. Can't dig holes like that in this league.

      I think it was about as split down the middle as our fanbase was. There were experts in for Mariota. Experts in for Jameis. It is what it is. Revisionist history now and none of it really matters. There's no do-overs.

      We found another sane fan

      Except that it repeats the tired story of "ALL ROOKIE QBS STRUGGLE" by posting numbers without context (even though in these numbers, Luck kicks the crap out of Jameis by averaging an INT per 35 attempts v. Jameis 19 attempts). The stats are only part of the story -- it's the repeating the same mistakes over and over again. The pick-6 was the *exact* same mistake (throwing an out route to the inside of the receiver with too little velocity) he made in week 1 that led to another pick-6. Zero correction made after being burned, badly. The pick to the LB was another example of not seeing an underneath coverage, something that's all over his college tape and something that bit him in week 1 as well.It's more balls thrown behind WRs (the pick he threw behind V-Jax, obviously showing he's learned nothing from film last week, where he killed a drive in the RZ by delivering a ball behind V-Jax that could have moved the ball inside the 10), more YOLO balls just thrown up for grabs when he panics, etc.I could live with a 4 INT game if it was new stuff he was screwing up, but it's the same stuff week after week. He's late on throws, doesn't put enough zip on a lot of his throws, and still has that godawful baseball windup that lets defenders get an extra step of break on his passes.

      So let me get this straight. You think in the 18 ints Andrew Luck threw or the 28 that Peyton threw or the crap ton that all of this rookie QBs threw that they never made the same mistake twice? Or three times or five times? According to Football perspectus, Manning has thrown over 25 pick sixes in his career. I guess he never threw the same type of pick six twice. Or he just never learned from his mistakes. He obviously sucks. Colts should've gotten rid of him.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1686

      lol.. comparing a bum rookie QB to a HOF QB.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 177

      The Mariota = RG3 stuff is lazy.In his rookie year, RG3 was running tons of read-option stuff and averaging 10+ carries per game over his first 3 starts. Through Mariota's first 3 starts, he's been playing from the pocket and averaging less than 2 carries per game. RG3 looked like a college QB running a college offense in the NFL. Mariota looks like an NFL QB running an NFL offense.

      About as lazy as someone comparing Jameis to Leftwich, Vince Young or JaMarcus Russell.Mariota is running the Oregon offense in the NFL. Ken Whisenhunt completely changed his offense for him. Anyone with half a brain can see that.With that said, the numbers are looking good for him.This thread isn't about him. Its about Winston and yes, Jameis was TURR-ible yesterday. Downright awful.And for those who don't want to hear it, such is life with a rookie.Luck through his first four games96 of 177 54% 1,208 7 TDs, 5 Ints 2-2 record, 9 sacks QB Rating 77.1Winston through his first four games73 of 133 55% 965 6 TDs, 7 ints 1-3 record, 9 sacks QB Rating 71.2While Luck was superior in each category, Winston isn’t that far off.BTW, for those wondering – Teddy Bridgewater threw 2 TDs and 5 ints in his first four starts for Minnesota (one of those against the Bucs).Derek Carr threw 4 TDs and 4 Ints.Blake Bortles threw 3 TDs and 8 ints.Ryan Tannehill threw 2 TDs and 5 ints…For most rookies, this happens.FWIW, Jameis is on pace for 3860 yds passing, 24 TDs, 28 ints. The INTs are high but most rational people would say that's a pretty decent rookie season.If he can manage to keep the picks down in his final 12 games maybe it will be a really good one.

      Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect.

      Sorry, but that's just nonsense. I pointed out last week after searching for 2-3 minutes tops that Daniel Jeremiah, Ron Wolf, Mariucci, and Kurt Warner all rated him above Mariota. And there were others who had Mariota higher because of the off-field questions. That said he was terrible the other day. Bad for a vet, bad for a rookie. Can't dig holes like that in this league.

      I think it was about as split down the middle as our fanbase was. There were experts in for Mariota. Experts in for Jameis. It is what it is. Revisionist history now and none of it really matters. There's no do-overs.

      We found another sane fan

      Except that it repeats the tired story of "ALL ROOKIE QBS STRUGGLE" by posting numbers without context (even though in these numbers, Luck kicks the crap out of Jameis by averaging an INT per 35 attempts v. Jameis 19 attempts). The stats are only part of the story -- it's the repeating the same mistakes over and over again. The pick-6 was the *exact* same mistake (throwing an out route to the inside of the receiver with too little velocity) he made in week 1 that led to another pick-6. Zero correction made after being burned, badly. The pick to the LB was another example of not seeing an underneath coverage, something that's all over his college tape and something that bit him in week 1 as well.It's more balls thrown behind WRs (the pick he threw behind V-Jax, obviously showing he's learned nothing from film last week, where he killed a drive in the RZ by delivering a ball behind V-Jax that could have moved the ball inside the 10), more YOLO balls just thrown up for grabs when he panics, etc.I could live with a 4 INT game if it was new stuff he was screwing up, but it's the same stuff week after week. He's late on throws, doesn't put enough zip on a lot of his throws, and still has that godawful baseball windup that lets defenders get an extra step of break on his passes.

      So let me get this straight. You think in the 18 ints Andrew Luck threw or the 28 that Peyton threw or the crap ton that all of this rookie QBs threw that they never made the same mistake twice? Or three times or five times? According to Football perspectus, Manning has thrown over 25 pick sixes in his career. I guess he never threw the same type of pick six twice. Or he just never learned from his mistakes. He obviously sucks. Colts should've gotten rid of him.

      Quite right.  This all takes time. I can't count all the times I've read posters moaning over the fact that Winston's footwork and release haven't improved and that he is making the same mistakes he made in college. These things take time to correct!  They've been ingrained over a lifetime of reps. They're not going to get fixed in a matter of weeks or even months. The "10,000 hours to master" rule is a well-accepted concept for a reason.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1550

      lol.. comparing a bum rookie QB to a HOF QB.

      Lol...calling a rookie qb a bum after 4 games

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      lol.. comparing a bum rookie QB to a HOF QB.

      Lol...calling a rookie qb a bum after 4 games

      Evans was called a bum after 4 games last year too.  I wouldn't worry too much.  8)

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 504

      4 picks...he looks lost against NFL D.Let the apologists make excuses...especially the FSU fanboys

      I just don't see Mariota ever having 5 turnovers. We have to give Jameis time to turn into something good but, it sure sucks we didn't take Mariota. I'm not sure Winston will start for any team after his contract is up.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1686

      lol.. comparing a bum rookie QB to a HOF QB.

      Lol...calling a rookie qb a bum after 4 games

      lol comparing a bum rookie QB that has looked AWFUL to a HOF QB that looked better in those first 4 games with a worse roster when teams could actually play defense.

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    • johnd

      Participant
      Post count: 333

      lol.. comparing a bum rookie QB to a HOF QB.

      Lol...calling a rookie qb a bum after 4 games

      Evans was called a bum after 4 games last year too.  I wouldn't worry too much.  8)

      well he is starting to look like Micheal Clayton

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 648

      The Mariota = RG3 stuff is lazy.In his rookie year, RG3 was running tons of read-option stuff and averaging 10+ carries per game over his first 3 starts. Through Mariota's first 3 starts, he's been playing from the pocket and averaging less than 2 carries per game. RG3 looked like a college QB running a college offense in the NFL. Mariota looks like an NFL QB running an NFL offense.

      About as lazy as someone comparing Jameis to Leftwich, Vince Young or JaMarcus Russell.Mariota is running the Oregon offense in the NFL. Ken Whisenhunt completely changed his offense for him. Anyone with half a brain can see that.With that said, the numbers are looking good for him.This thread isn't about him. Its about Winston and yes, Jameis was TURR-ible yesterday. Downright awful.And for those who don't want to hear it, such is life with a rookie.Luck through his first four games96 of 177 54% 1,208 7 TDs, 5 Ints 2-2 record, 9 sacks QB Rating 77.1Winston through his first four games73 of 133 55% 965 6 TDs, 7 ints 1-3 record, 9 sacks QB Rating 71.2While Luck was superior in each category, Winston isn’t that far off.BTW, for those wondering – Teddy Bridgewater threw 2 TDs and 5 ints in his first four starts for Minnesota (one of those against the Bucs).Derek Carr threw 4 TDs and 4 Ints.Blake Bortles threw 3 TDs and 8 ints.Ryan Tannehill threw 2 TDs and 5 ints…For most rookies, this happens.FWIW, Jameis is on pace for 3860 yds passing, 24 TDs, 28 ints. The INTs are high but most rational people would say that's a pretty decent rookie season.If he can manage to keep the picks down in his final 12 games maybe it will be a really good one.

      Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect.

      Sorry, but that's just nonsense. I pointed out last week after searching for 2-3 minutes tops that Daniel Jeremiah, Ron Wolf, Mariucci, and Kurt Warner all rated him above Mariota. And there were others who had Mariota higher because of the off-field questions. That said he was terrible the other day. Bad for a vet, bad for a rookie. Can't dig holes like that in this league.

      I think it was about as split down the middle as our fanbase was. There were experts in for Mariota. Experts in for Jameis. It is what it is. Revisionist history now and none of it really matters. There's no do-overs.

      We found another sane fan

      Except that it repeats the tired story of "ALL ROOKIE QBS STRUGGLE" by posting numbers without context (even though in these numbers, Luck kicks the crap out of Jameis by averaging an INT per 35 attempts v. Jameis 19 attempts). The stats are only part of the story -- it's the repeating the same mistakes over and over again. The pick-6 was the *exact* same mistake (throwing an out route to the inside of the receiver with too little velocity) he made in week 1 that led to another pick-6. Zero correction made after being burned, badly. The pick to the LB was another example of not seeing an underneath coverage, something that's all over his college tape and something that bit him in week 1 as well.It's more balls thrown behind WRs (the pick he threw behind V-Jax, obviously showing he's learned nothing from film last week, where he killed a drive in the RZ by delivering a ball behind V-Jax that could have moved the ball inside the 10), more YOLO balls just thrown up for grabs when he panics, etc.I could live with a 4 INT game if it was new stuff he was screwing up, but it's the same stuff week after week. He's late on throws, doesn't put enough zip on a lot of his throws, and still has that godawful baseball windup that lets defenders get an extra step of break on his passes.

      What you and many others don't really seem to grasp is the fact that this was week 4 of his first ever NFL season.You use "but people called him Proready!" and "well Mariota has played better!" as reasons that Winston is some so called garbage QB.It is absolutely ridiculous to be expecting greatness 4 weeks into the regular season from any rookie. If it happens, that's great! But 9.9 times out of 10 it doesn't. People aren't just pulling up these Luck/Manning/RG3 numbers for no reason. It shows you that this type of play CAN and WILL happen with young quarterbacks. It also shows that this can CHANGE. Giving somebody FOUR WEEKS to change is a pipe dream. If Winston is still doing this kind of (censored) come week 4 of next season, then the complaints begin to hold some ground. Hell even then it's only been ONE season. I give most 1st round rookies 3 seasons to prove it. Often times they need more, but no fan or coach has the kind of patience these days.For now, it's week 5 of the regular season. Calm down. We will not know whether or not we made the wrong choice at QB or not until 2019. Until then we can only hope Winston plays better than the last weekend.ylhceukekul, you whine a lot. I hear the Titans have a good QB. Go cheer them on!

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      Jameis had a bad game. Feel better now, Gomer?

      way to marginalize things, Cyprus

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      Jameis had a bad game. Feel better now, Gomer?

      way to marginalize things, Cyprus

      He is a Winston apologist...has been from DAY ONE

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      People went nuts when rookie Glennon had a fast start but then cooled off.  Rookie QB’s are rookies.Stop crying and act like you have watched the game of football before. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      People went nuts when rookie Glennon had a fast start but then cooled off.  Rookie QB's are rookies.Stop crying and act like you have watched the game of football before.

      Bro...unfortunately we did watch that game on Sunday and those picks were horrific...not even close!!!

      But there was a surprise: There’s an odd line of demarcation that conveniently starts in the new century. Since 2000, there have been 22 rookies to have a four-pick game like Winston and, with the exception of (perhaps) one, they’re all players who have, or will end up having careers that range from Leaf-like to very respectable, but not worthy of a No. 1 pick.Here they are, in order of my arbitrary career rankings. Keep in mind, these are the best rookies to throw 4+ in a game since 2000: Cam Newton, Matthew Stafford (x2), Jake Delhomme, Alex Smith, Mark Sanchez. And now, the worst (this time in no order): Joey Harrington, Ken Dorsey, EJ Manuel, Josh Freeman, Keith Null. Other players to do it include Brandon Weeden, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt McGloin, Chris Weinke, Derek Anderson, Henry Burris and John Navarre. There’s not a Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan or Ben Roethlisberger on there.Please take note that a QB with a ring...is not in the 4 pick club...are there are a LOT more turds in that group than not...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      People went nuts when rookie Glennon had a fast start but then cooled off.  Rookie QB's are rookies.Stop crying and act like you have watched the game of football before.

      Bro...unfortunately we did watch that game on Sunday and those picks were horrific...not even close!!!

      Rookie stats don't mean anything.  People accused Dalbuc of looking at stats too much but he was right on this point. Rookie QB stats don't mean anything which is why RG3' rookie season was so misleading.I remember the temper tantrums thrown with Freeman's rookie season not just Glennon's.  Bucs fans act like they have never seen a rookie QB play before. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 337

      People went nuts when rookie Glennon had a fast start but then cooled off.  Rookie QB's are rookies.Stop crying and act like you have watched the game of football before.

      Bro...unfortunately we did watch that game on Sunday and those picks were horrific...not even close!!!

      Rookie stats don't mean anything.  People accused Dalbuc of looking at stats too much but he was right on this point. Rookie QB stats don't mean anything which is why RG3' rookie season was so misleading.I remember the temper tantrums thrown with Freeman's rookie season not just Glennon's.  Bucs fans act like they have never seen a rookie QB play before.

      I'm not even talking about stats -- I'm talking about what Jameis is doing on film and what he's not improving on.We knew Jameis had a problem in college with seeing underneath coverage. He threw a pick in Week 1 to a guy in underneath coverage on a swing pass. That's fine, mistakes happen -- but I expect a #1 overall pick with "off the charts" football IQ to watch the film and learn from the mistake. Fast forward to Week 4, and he throws ANOTHER pick to a LB sitting in underneath coverage. That's a huge red flag and shows me that he has learned absolutely nothing from his college tapes and week 1 tapes. Or how about this:We knew Jameis had a problem with ball placement, and we saw in week 1 that he had a problem with ball placement (and ball velocity, for that matter) throwing the out route. He put the ball too far inside and didn't throw the ball with enough pep and it resulted in an INT. Again, that's fine -- you make a mistake and you grow from it. But then, in the EXACT SAME SITUATION this past week, he again floats a ball to the inside shoulder on an out route and it gets housed for another pick-6. Again, all the "football smarts" this kid is alleged to have don't show up on Sunday, when he was presented with a situation where he should have gone to school on in the film room and made the same mistake again.That's the problem here. It isn't just about pure stats -- you're absolutely right on that. It's about getting better and showing the ability to learn from mistakes. So far, through the first quarter of his rookie year, Jameis seems to have learned absolutely nothing from his NFL coaching. He is still making the same mistakes he made in college, and now he's graduated to making the same mistakes in season from week to week.That's an enormous red flag -- especially considering that his football acumen was considered his strongest selling point.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 177

      People went nuts when rookie Glennon had a fast start but then cooled off.  Rookie QB's are rookies.Stop crying and act like you have watched the game of football before.

      Bro...unfortunately we did watch that game on Sunday and those picks were horrific...not even close!!!

      Rookie stats don't mean anything.  People accused Dalbuc of looking at stats too much but he was right on this point. Rookie QB stats don't mean anything which is why RG3' rookie season was so misleading.I remember the temper tantrums thrown with Freeman's rookie season not just Glennon's.  Bucs fans act like they have never seen a rookie QB play before.

      I'm not even talking about stats -- I'm talking about what Jameis is doing on film and what he's not improving on.We knew Jameis had a problem in college with seeing underneath coverage. He threw a pick in Week 1 to a guy in underneath coverage on a swing pass. That's fine, mistakes happen -- but I expect a #1 overall pick with "off the charts" football IQ to watch the film and learn from the mistake. Fast forward to Week 4, and he throws ANOTHER pick to a LB sitting in underneath coverage. That's a huge red flag and shows me that he has learned absolutely nothing from his college tapes and week 1 tapes. Or how about this:We knew Jameis had a problem with ball placement, and we saw in week 1 that he had a problem with ball placement (and ball velocity, for that matter) throwing the out route. He put the ball too far inside and didn't throw the ball with enough pep and it resulted in an INT. Again, that's fine -- you make a mistake and you grow from it. But then, in the EXACT SAME SITUATION this past week, he again floats a ball to the inside shoulder on an out route and it gets housed for another pick-6. Again, all the "football smarts" this kid is alleged to have don't show up on Sunday, when he was presented with a situation where he should have gone to school on in the film room and made the same mistake again.That's the problem here. It isn't just about pure stats -- you're absolutely right on that. It's about getting better and showing the ability to learn from mistakes. So far, through the first quarter of his rookie year, Jameis seems to have learned absolutely nothing from his NFL coaching. He is still making the same mistakes he made in college, and now he's graduated to making the same mistakes in season from week to week.That's an enormous red flag -- especially considering that his football acumen was considered his strongest selling point.

      If repeating mistakes is the bar for success during a rookie season, then darn near every rookie in the history of the league carried "an enormous red flag."  The good new is that we Buc fans aren't the only unrealistic goobers in this world when it comes to rookie QBs.  I thought this was a pretty interesting read:http://forums.colts.com/topic/32636-why-is-andrew-luck-nitpicked-to-death-by-certain-fans/IT TAKES TIME!!!!!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      I really think that the days of giving a rookie qb 3 years is long gone.  They are either ready or chewed up by the league.  That’s the nature of this business.  Play well and play well now or suffer the consequences.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      I really think that the days of giving a rookie qb 3 years is long gone.  They are either ready or chewed up by the league.  That's the nature of this business.  Play well and play well now or suffer the consequences.

      This is a tough business...without a doubt. It is even tougher you are the #1 pick in the draft! Now, I am not saying that Jaboo is a bust, I am simply stating that he looked like shit on Sunday...beyond bad with those horrendous INTs. The thing that concerns me is that he actually stated in his post game presser that he is working every week and he is taking better car of the rock  :o That's concerning following a 4 INT, 1 fumble performance.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 169

      Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect.

      I must have been in another universe all together. I'm sorry I wasn't here, 'cause all I recall hearing was how great he was on the field and the only concern brought up was his off the field issues. Again it wasn't on these boards, but on say ESPN, Yahoo Sports, just generally in public, if your brought up his ints or wind up, or questioned his accuracy or really any aspect of his actual football ability you were looked at like some freak, some clueless idiot. It was impossible to have a conversation.  If it was just two or three of five talking heads they were all like, he's great, next coming, Best since Luck, can't miss... and then the one dude that was like oh he made a bad joke in the lounge no way I'd touch him because of that, but on the field flawless. Would have been nice to run into some of these, Mariotta clearly the better pick folks.

      Rowdie - Obviously none of this is scientific - the people and opinions that I run into would easily be different from what you experience. My observation pre-draft was that Winston had a stronger following from the folks in Florida and a lot less outside of it. In fact, I visited some of the fan message boards of other teams (Titans, Eagles, and other QB needy teams) and those were universally littered with Draft Mariota threads. Here's a sample from the Titans board from a while back calling our QB a bust and thanking us for passing on Mariota. I don't necessarily subscribe to the "Bust" label after four games, but I get the sentiment. I did post a lot of these links pre-draft, and boy you should have seen the venom from the cult followers of our QB at that time.http://www.titansreport.com/topic/19090-thank-you-tampa-bay/

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 648

      I love how Colts fans are still expecting mistakes from Luck in his third season yet Bucs fans can’t give it 4 weeks of the rookie season.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I love how Colts fans are still expecting mistakes from Luck in his third season yet Bucs fans can't give it 4 weeks of the rookie season.

      I love how winston fans can say HOF after such a bad start. ...Like it's some right of passage?This guy is freeman 2.0.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 253

      Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect.

      I must have been in another universe all together. I'm sorry I wasn't here, 'cause all I recall hearing was how great he was on the field and the only concern brought up was his off the field issues. Again it wasn't on these boards, but on say ESPN, Yahoo Sports, just generally in public, if your brought up his ints or wind up, or questioned his accuracy or really any aspect of his actual football ability you were looked at like some freak, some clueless idiot. It was impossible to have a conversation.  If it was just two or three of five talking heads they were all like, he's great, next coming, Best since Luck, can't miss... and then the one dude that was like oh he made a bad joke in the lounge no way I'd touch him because of that, but on the field flawless. Would have been nice to run into some of these, Mariotta clearly the better pick folks.

      Rowdie - Obviously none of this is scientific - the people and opinions that I run into would easily be different from what you experience. My observation pre-draft was that Winston had a stronger following from the folks in Florida and a lot less outside of it. In fact, I visited some of the fan message boards of other teams (Titans, Eagles, and other QB needy teams) and those were universally littered with Draft Mariota threads. Here's a sample from the Titans board from a while back calling our QB a bust and thanking us for passing on Mariota. I don't necessarily subscribe to the "Bust" label after four games, but I get the sentiment. I did post a lot of these links pre-draft, and boy you should have seen the venom from the cult followers of our QB at that time.http://www.titansreport.com/topic/19090-thank-you-tampa-bay/

      That thread is way after the fact. Look I get it. I'm not saying they weren't out there, I'm simply relaying my experience.  The entire world was the red board if you will, run away hyperbole and over reaction. The one fellow at work that talked a little football got fired. He kept working on crazy trades. I think he had us with Sam bradford. I just kept telling him, we're taking JW it's just a matter of how you feel about it. Anyway, I'm all over #swagdimes and no #yoloballs.  Buddy needs to figure out what he can't do kind of more than what he can at this point. If we suck out loud again, it's just earlier draft picks and hopefully more free tickets. I ain't even going to complain about what's on the field, but the food at the stadium sure could improve.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      Jameis slurpers should admit its a worrying sign he looks this bad

      LOL, this is the crap that just makes me crazy....

      Chev - with all due respect - what drives me (and a lot of rational folks here) crazy is the amount of hype shoved down our throats by the #ProReady crowd, the publication here and the FSU homers. Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect. Not saying Winston is a bust - but he's as far removed from being "Pro-ready" as any average rookie QB. That starting QB on the Titans however...

      completely false statement.  No one shoved Winston down anyone's throat.  It was reported accurately that Winston would be the pick and the only questions were off field BS.You wanted Mariota, that was never going to happen.  Your absurd anger makes me laugh and smile! Winston has indeed made errors like all rookie QB's but he also makes some great throws.  He will only get better with you praying for him to fail.  Time to join the home team.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4407

      lol.. comparing a bum rookie QB to a HOF QB.

      Lol...calling a rookie qb a bum after 4 games

      amen

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 648

      I love how Colts fans are still expecting mistakes from Luck in his third season yet Bucs fans can't give it 4 weeks of the rookie season.

      I love how winston fans can say HOF after such a bad start. ...Like it's some right of passage?This guy is freeman 2.0.

      Nobody is.You're a fucking moron if you can't understand the point people are making by bringing up Luck and Manning numbers.I've heard him called Jamarcus Russel, Bryon Leftwich, and Josh Freeman. ALL played the QB position differently. So which is it? Can someone pick already? Cause everytime a new name is tossed in it makes you look stupider.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1784

      I love how Colts fans are still expecting mistakes from Luck in his third season yet Bucs fans can't give it 4 weeks of the rookie season.

      I love how winston fans can say HOF after such a bad start. ...Like it's some right of passage?This guy is freeman 2.0.

      I'm not ready to call him Freeman 2.0 yet. Part of me wants to hold onto the hope and uncertainty that he his Freeman 2.0 at this point. However it's not looking good so far. Just hope it gets better as he continues his rookie season and onto his sophomore season. Unless he looks like dog turd the rest of the season he should have some time to correct things and get better. If not back to the drawing board.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2862

      4 picks...he looks lost against NFL D.

      Jameis had a bad game. Feel better now, Gomer?

      "Citizens arrest! Citizens arrest!"

      Well played Mark.I see the Jaboo apologist tour continues with Cyrus!

      "Jaboo apologist"...lolCome to think of it, compared to your three day rant my criticism pales in comparison. You should probably step outside and get some fresh air. Seething anger is going to put you in an early grave.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1540

      Anyone calling Winston a bum or bust after 4 weeks should be permanently banned from not only these message boards, but from ever watching sports again. You MAY be correct in the long run, but it is only a guess at this point. But hey make sure you have it covered so you can pull up the post in five years and say, “I told you so!”… Golf clap….With that said, those claiming Jameis is the next coming of Manning, Brady and others are just as much off their rocker as well.Let's see what happens this year. Then next. Then in year three we will have a much better indication. But stop with the Freeman 2.0 predictions or the Greatest Player ever accolades after four games.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      Anyone calling Winston a bum or bust after 4 weeks should be permanently banned from not only these message boards, but from ever watching sports again. You MAY be correct in the long run, but it is only a guess at this point. But hey make sure you have it covered so you can pull up the post in five years and say, "I told you so!"... Golf clap….With that said, those claiming Jameis is the next coming of Manning, Brady and others are just as much off their rocker as well.Let's see what happens this year. Then next. Then in year three we will have a much better indication. But stop with the Freeman 2.0 predictions or the Greatest Player ever accolades after four games.

      Yeah, come on people....Winston is not even the best QB on the roster. The numbers don't lie.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      4 picks...he looks lost against NFL D.

      Jameis had a bad game. Feel better now, Gomer?

      "Citizens arrest! Citizens arrest!"

      Well played Mark.I see the Jaboo apologist tour continues with Cyrus!

      "Jaboo apologist"...lolCome to think of it, compared to your three day rant my criticism pales in comparison. You should probably step outside and get some fresh air. Seething anger is going to put you in an early grave.

      You are really are too funny...three day rant? seething anger? HAHAHA...what a joke.Your boy is having a rough go of it and that is your response? Sorry, some of us are going to call him and this organization on it. Some of us actually put forth $$$ for this team on a weekly basis, just to get slapped in the face.Shuffle along, bub...

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    • suesweat

      Participant
      Post count: 1335

      Anyone calling Winston a bum or bust after 4 weeks should be permanently banned from not only these message boards, but from ever watching sports again. You MAY be correct in the long run, but it is only a guess at this point. But hey make sure you have it covered so you can pull up the post in five years and say, "I told you so!"... Golf clap….With that said, those claiming Jameis is the next coming of Manning, Brady and others are just as much off their rocker as well.Let's see what happens this year. Then next. Then in year three we will have a much better indication. But stop with the Freeman 2.0 predictions or the Greatest Player ever accolades after four games.

      Yeah, come on people....Winston is not even the best QB on the roster. The numbers don't lie.

      And the bar has been sitting on the floor for a few years so that's not saying much!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Banning people for talking negative about winston…?Thats fsu homerism at its finest, but it has already been applied to this site before. Unoriginal.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Anyone calling Winston a bum or bust after 4 weeks should be permanently banned from not only these message boards, but from ever watching sports again.

      I think the same ban should apply for those who made him a deity before the draft.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Anyone calling Winston a bum or bust after 4 weeks should be permanently banned from not only these message boards, but from ever watching sports again.

      I think the same ban should apply for those who made him a deity before the draft.

      Agreed. That crap was beyond stupid. They pretty much beat people down about how everyone was wrong, and how IF they couldnt see how great he was, ...then they were racists.I mean, ANYTHING to support that kid. It was almost like the oj trial. Even though you know he's doing something wrong, you gotta support, ...or else!That shouldve been clue number one that they were picking the wrong guy. Most of the time, that "intangibles" type talk is fluff to make more of a story when a guy isnt doing statistically well, but somehow still winning.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      Banning people for talking negative about winston...?Thats fsu homerism at its finest, but it has already been applied to this site before. Unoriginal.

      I personally know of at least one user who has been banned and claims that is due to criticism of Winston...sad if true.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 253

      Anyone calling Winston a bum or bust after 4 weeks should be permanently banned from not only these message boards, but from ever watching sports again. You MAY be correct in the long run, but it is only a guess at this point. But hey make sure you have it covered so you can pull up the post in five years and say, "I told you so!"... Golf clap….

      No one gives a (censored) about I told you so. To say it's 4 weeks is crap. Plenty of people watched the kid for 26 odd games in college. If one group gets to go all #proready with just two years of college ball the other guys can certainly call #nflbust after that plus four weeks. It's totally dishonest to say, hey put your name on, then call people out when they do. It's a discussion board. This is the reason it exists. Mad props if you just trolled me like a frack'n Tuna.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      Anyone calling Winston a bum or bust after 4 weeks should be permanently banned...

      Reasonable stance, but there are other factors at play which will heavily influence his future projected path.Namely the coaching staff, scheme, and team.Put Winston on the Patriots, Steelers, Packers, (Titans), I'd say he has a damn good shot.Here?...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Anyone calling Winston a bum or bust after 4 weeks should be permanently banned from not only these message boards, but from ever watching sports again. You MAY be correct in the long run, but it is only a guess at this point. But hey make sure you have it covered so you can pull up the post in five years and say, "I told you so!"... Golf clap….With that said, those claiming Jameis is the next coming of Manning, Brady and others are just as much off their rocker as well.Let's see what happens this year. Then next. Then in year three we will have a much better indication. But stop with the Freeman 2.0 predictions or the Greatest Player ever accolades after four games.

      Good post MC.+1

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 177

      Anyone calling Winston a bum or bust after 4 weeks should be permanently banned from not only these message boards, but from ever watching sports again. You MAY be correct in the long run, but it is only a guess at this point. But hey make sure you have it covered so you can pull up the post in five years and say, "I told you so!"... Golf clap….With that said, those claiming Jameis is the next coming of Manning, Brady and others are just as much off their rocker as well.Let's see what happens this year. Then next. Then in year three we will have a much better indication. But stop with the Freeman 2.0 predictions or the Greatest Player ever accolades after four games.

      Good post MC.+1

      Spot on.  The only thing I would add is that the comparable stats of the HOF'ers don't prove Jameis will be a HOF'er, but they do go a long way in proving that it is way too early to say he is going to be a bust, or even the wrong pick.  The only thing we know about JW right now is that he is a struggling rookie at a position where most rookies, even #1 picks and future hall of famers, tend to struggle.  He is being put through a trial by fire and getting burned a lot.  We won't know if those burns are going to heal and make him stronger for a while now.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1417

      Best thing about being a Winston basher is you get to gripe through the lows but if he pans out you get to say “listen guys I’m a bucs fan I wanted him to pan out.” It’s a win win for them.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Best thing about being a Winston basher is you get to gripe through the lows but if he pans out you get to say "listen guys I'm a bucs fan I wanted him to pan out." It's a win win for them.

      Not only excuses for the messiah, but for the fsu fanboys too.You guys get to toot his horn, and then we he doesnt pan out, you'll just turn the set to fsu football.Win win, right?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      I love how Colts fans are still expecting mistakes from Luck in his third season yet Bucs fans can't give it 4 weeks of the rookie season.

      I love how winston fans can say HOF after such a bad start. ...Like it's some right of passage?This guy is freeman 2.0.

      Nobody is.You're a (censored)ing moron if you can't understand the point people are making by bringing up Luck and Manning numbers.I've heard him called Jamarcus Russel, Bryon Leftwich, and Josh Freeman. ALL played the QB position differently. So which is it? Can someone pick already? Cause everytime a new name is tossed in it makes you look stupider.

      Uhhhh...why else would they be bringing up those numbers?  Seriously.  It is a comparison no matter how you try to hide.  Why else would you say...but Manning threw 28 picks too.  That's a direct comparison.  We all know what it is implying.  It is too early to call him a bust but he wasn't pro ready at all.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 169

      Jameis slurpers should admit its a worrying sign he looks this bad

      LOL, this is the crap that just makes me crazy....

      Chev - with all due respect - what drives me (and a lot of rational folks here) crazy is the amount of hype shoved down our throats by the #ProReady crowd, the publication here and the FSU homers. Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect. Not saying Winston is a bust - but he's as far removed from being "Pro-ready" as any average rookie QB. That starting QB on the Titans however...

      completely false statement.  No one shoved Winston down anyone's throat.  It was reported accurately that Winston would be the pick and the only questions were off field BS.You wanted Mariota, that was never going to happen.  Your absurd anger makes me laugh and smile! Winston has indeed made errors like all rookie QB's but he also makes some great throws.  He will only get better with you praying for him to fail.  Time to join the home team.

      Really? How do you know that I'm praying for him to fail? Prime example of the #PROREADY crowd classifying everyone else as "Haters". Good for you dude, you got it all figured out!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1540

      Anyone calling Winston a bum or bust after 4 weeks should be permanently banned from not only these message boards, but from ever watching sports again. You MAY be correct in the long run, but it is only a guess at this point. But hey make sure you have it covered so you can pull up the post in five years and say, "I told you so!"... Golf clap….With that said, those claiming Jameis is the next coming of Manning, Brady and others are just as much off their rocker as well.Let's see what happens this year. Then next. Then in year three we will have a much better indication. But stop with the Freeman 2.0 predictions or the Greatest Player ever accolades after four games.

      Yeah, come on people....Winston is not even the best QB on the roster. The numbers don't lie.

      They cut Lobato last year. You may have forgotten.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1540

      Banning people for talking negative about winston...?Thats fsu homerism at its finest, but it has already been applied to this site before. Unoriginal.

      I personally know of at least one user who has been banned and claims that is due to criticism of Winston...sad if true.

      Well you know of one person who is a liar.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1540

      Anyone calling Winston a bum or bust after 4 weeks should be permanently banned from not only these message boards, but from ever watching sports again.

      I think the same ban should apply for those who made him a deity before the draft.

      Agreed. That crap was beyond stupid. They pretty much beat people down about how everyone was wrong, and how IF they couldnt see how great he was, ...then they were racists.I mean, ANYTHING to support that kid. It was almost like the oj trial. Even though you know he's doing something wrong, you gotta support, ...or else!That shouldve been clue number one that they were picking the wrong guy. Most of the time, that "intangibles" type talk is fluff to make more of a story when a guy isnt doing statistically well, but somehow still winning.

      I love how you failed to notice or chose to ignore this part of my post:  With that said, those claiming Jameis is the next coming of Manning, Brady and others are just as much off their rocker as well.But hey don't let the truth get in the way of your story or agenda.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1571

      Anyone calling Winston a bum or bust after 4 weeks should be permanently banned from not only these message boards, but from ever watching sports again. You MAY be correct in the long run, but it is only a guess at this point. But hey make sure you have it covered so you can pull up the post in five years and say, "I told you so!"... Golf clap….With that said, those claiming Jameis is the next coming of Manning, Brady and others are just as much off their rocker as well.Let's see what happens this year. Then next. Then in year three we will have a much better indication. But stop with the Freeman 2.0 predictions or the Greatest Player ever accolades after four games.

      Yeah, come on people....Winston is not even the best QB on the roster. The numbers don't lie.

      And the bar has been sitting on the floor for a few years so that's not saying much!

      Ummmm, if you feel the bar is that low then her statement is saying a lot.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1686

      Jameis slurpers should admit its a worrying sign he looks this bad

      LOL, this is the crap that just makes me crazy....

      Chev - with all due respect - what drives me (and a lot of rational folks here) crazy is the amount of hype shoved down our throats by the #ProReady crowd, the publication here and the FSU homers. Everyone outside of the Florida universally thought Mariota was a better prospect. Not saying Winston is a bust - but he's as far removed from being "Pro-ready" as any average rookie QB. That starting QB on the Titans however...

      completely false statement.  No one shoved Winston down anyone's throat.  It was reported accurately that Winston would be the pick and the only questions were off field BS.You wanted Mariota, that was never going to happen.  Your absurd anger makes me laugh and smile! Winston has indeed made errors like all rookie QB's but he also makes some great throws.  He will only get better with you praying for him to fail.  Time to join the home team.

      Really? How do you know that I'm praying for him to fail? Prime example of the #PROREADY crowd classifying everyone else as "Haters". Good for you dude, you got it all figured out!

      I wouldn't waste your time with that troll. Speaking of trolls, where has seven up been?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Anyone calling Winston a bum or bust after 4 weeks should be permanently banned from not only these message boards, but from ever watching sports again.

      I think the same ban should apply for those who made him a deity before the draft.

      Agreed. That crap was beyond stupid. They pretty much beat people down about how everyone was wrong, and how IF they couldnt see how great he was, ...then they were racists.I mean, ANYTHING to support that kid. It was almost like the oj trial. Even though you know he's doing something wrong, you gotta support, ...or else!That shouldve been clue number one that they were picking the wrong guy. Most of the time, that "intangibles" type talk is fluff to make more of a story when a guy isnt doing statistically well, but somehow still winning.

      I love how you failed to notice or chose to ignore this part of my post:  With that said, those claiming Jameis is the next coming of Manning, Brady and others are just as much off their rocker as well.But hey don't let the truth get in the way of your story or agenda.

      I'd be mad too if i clamored for winston, and then got this results. I was cheesed at jff for the same reasons, but luckly, we didnt have to deal with his bs.And idk if we should mention agendas. Not trying to be rude. Just saying. We even had "the winston report" as a sarcastic response to the predraft accusations. I'm sure there will be more excuses from the winston fanclub though, no matter what.Besides, how does one "predict" anything if they keep waiting? Im seeing what im seeing, and it looks a lot like freeman. The raver version, not the taco bell one.If your opinion is, he can be really bad, or really good.. thats kind of a broad brush stroke.What is your prediction for him? Agenda is a funny word though. Anyone can use it, and everyone has them.My agenda, was for the bucs to stop sucking at football. Didnt happen. Now, my "agenda" is to basically tell everyone what they already know, ..apparently.So, not much of an agenda if you ask me. Lol.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 103

      Anyone calling Winston a bum or bust after 4 weeks should be permanently banned from not only these message boards, but from ever watching sports again.

      I think the same ban should apply for those who made him a deity before the draft.

      Agreed. That crap was beyond stupid. They pretty much beat people down about how everyone was wrong, and how IF they couldnt see how great he was, ...then they were racists.I mean, ANYTHING to support that kid. It was almost like the oj trial. Even though you know he's doing something wrong, you gotta support, ...or else!That shouldve been clue number one that they were picking the wrong guy. Most of the time, that "intangibles" type talk is fluff to make more of a story when a guy isnt doing statistically well, but somehow still winning.

      I love how you failed to notice or chose to ignore this part of my post:  With that said, those claiming Jameis is the next coming of Manning, Brady and others are just as much off their rocker as well.But hey don't let the truth get in the way of your story or agenda.

      I'd be mad too if i clamored for winston, and then got this results. I was cheesed at jff for the same reasons, but luckly, we didnt have to deal with his bs.And idk if we should mention agendas. Not trying to be rude. Just saying. We even had "the winston report" as a sarcastic response to the predraft accusations. I'm sure there will be more excuses from the winston fanclub though, no matter what.Besides, how does one "predict" anything if they keep waiting? Im seeing what im seeing, and it looks a lot like freeman. The raver version, not the taco bell one.If your opinion is, he can be really bad, or really good.. thats kind of a broad brush stroke.What is your prediction for him? Agenda is a funny word though. Anyone can use it, and everyone has them.My agenda, was for the bucs to stop sucking at football. Didnt happen. Now, my "agenda" is to basically tell everyone what they already know, ..apparently.So, not much of an agenda if you ask me. Lol.

      How did you plan on implementing your agenda of the Bucs to stop sucking? You coaching now or apart of the FO? I am by no means a Winston lover, but i think we all as adults can understand that a 4 game sample size is a very small sample. Whether you agree with what has been said or written in the past by PR that is up to you, but when you constantly try to seem witty or cunning in your attempts of what i believe is sarcasm, bordering on mental retardation, it gets old quick.

      Please wait…

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