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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      As far as the eyeball test, I say yes. Winston has made some great throws and he has displayed great poise and presence in the pocket IMO. But what do the stats say? I think some people forget how truly awful we were last year. Through three games here are the QB stats.201460 - 92 for 541 yards with 3 TD and 4 INT. Our QB's were 0-3 in those games.201547 - 90 for 678 yards with 4 TD and 3 INT. We are 1-2 in those games.Interesting to see that Jameis has a lower completion % but a much higher yards per throw and therefore more yardage. In 2014 our QBs did not throw for 200 yards in any of the first three games. In 2015 we have thrown for over 200 yards in every game. Our offense had 9 turnovers last year through three games, and the 2015 Bucs have only five. Those are just raw stats, and raw stats don't give you a great picture of how the team played. Having watched the first three games last year, we are much better this year at QB IMO.I would think that even a subtle improvement would be enough to get the fans excited. But this is the instant gratification generation. I can see the difference in our QB this year and I am excited for the future.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      We need as side by side of freeman, mccown and Jameis through three games.I'd like to compare doug williams first three, as well as dilfers and Garcia. Just for nostalgia reasons.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      We need as side by side of freeman, mccown and Jameis through three games.I'd like to compare doug williams first three, as well as dilfers and Garcia. Just for nostalgia reasons.

      Here is one. Steve Young, Hall of Famer and seven time all-pro first 5 games in the NFL for the Bucs he threw for a 52.2 completion %, which is exactly what Winston's is right now. Steve Young threw 3 TD and 8 INT and had a 1-4 record in his first five games as a starter. He averaged 187 yards a game.http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00.htm

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 78

      We’ll get off the bench and do the legwork.. Not hard to find those stats in matter of fact u can stay right there on the bench and look them up and post them yourself!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 78

      U know; for nostalgia reasons

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1862

      Want to know why Jameis is better than last years QBs? Pocket awareness. There is no way Mccown or Glennon takes 0 sacks against Houston.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      Want to know why Jameis is better than last years QBs? Pocket awareness. There is no way Mccown or Glennon takes 0 sacks against Houston.

      I agree. I think that with his pocket awareness, ability to scramble, and his ability to keep his eyes downfield, the sky is really the limit for him. I truly believe that the OL will have some good games this year and we will see a dominant performance out of Winston before the end of the year. I am excited about our draft pick big time. This would be a great time for the bandwagon fans to buy season tickets because when the Bucs are playing well, there is not a hotter ticket in town.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 151

      Want to know why Jameis is better than last years QBs?

      Simple answer....Koetter

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      As a few people like to say….The Redskins were better off at the QB position the 1st three games of RG3’s career too.Again, it is way to early for any stat to be meaningful in any manner.  For every Steve Young comparison, I'm sure there are three of four Jamarcus Russell type comparisons too.  And that is simply because there are many more QB's that fail than succeed. But so far, by the eyeball test, Winston just looks better than what we have had in a long while.  He wants to win, he is composed. He is working the field.  He makes some great throws.  I'm very encouraged but not yet 100% sold on Winston.  That will take closer to two years.  Then we will know if it's flash in the pan or long term franchise QB.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Want to know why Jameis is better than last years QBs?

      Simple answer....Koetter

      IMO, Koetter is the most important and valuable coach on this staff.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1250

      Want to know why Jameis is better than last years QBs?

      Simple answer....Koetter

      IMO, Koetter is the most important and valuable coach on this staff.

      Yes! Yes! Yes! Agreed.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      I would argue the Bucs would have been better with any of the QB’s with the 2014 rookie draft class than the QB’s the Bucs played in 2014..  Still, I am glad the organization took their heads out of the ground and picked a QB in 2015.I still don't get the people that wanted to trade down in 2014 draft or the 2015 draft.  Can you imagine this team without Evans and Winston? 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2847

      Koetter has a plan. Last year, there was no real plan. Having watched all 3 games of both the Bucs and Titans this year, the one area where Winston has shown to be more "Pro-Ready" is pocket-awareness. We will see how long it takes for Winston to live up to the hype. TBH, my biggest concern right now is his conditioning over a 16-game season, plus that long wind-up could cost him more INTs... McCown was an incredible let-down here last season, and I attribute much of that to not having an OC. Once we had the top pick in the draft, coupled with McCown's desire to be a starter, his release was inevitable...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Koetter has a plan. Last year, there was no real plan. Having watched all 3 games of both the Bucs and Titans this year, the one area where Winston has shown to be more "Pro-Ready" is pocket-awareness. We will see how long it takes for Winston to live up to the hype. TBH, my biggest concern right now is his conditioning over a 16-game season, plus that long wind-up could cost him more INTs... McCown was an incredible let-down here last season, and I attribute much of that to not having an OC. Once we had the top pick in the draft, coupled with McCown's desire to be a starter, his release was inevitable...

      McCown in Cleveland had his best game of the season thus far and yet he still took five sacks. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Can you imagine this team without Evans and Winston?

      My guess is that we'd be 1-2.But, I see what you're getting at and I agree.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1845

      I would argue the Bucs would have been better with any of the QB's with the 2014 rookie draft class than the QB's the Bucs played in 2014..  Still, I am glad the organization took their heads out of the ground and picked a QB in 2015.I still don't get the people that wanted to trade down in 2014 draft or the 2015 draft.  Can you imagine this team without Evans and Winston?

      On the flip side, can you imagine Winston with Arroyo?I don't know what we have with Winston, but I feel 100% more confident with Koetter then I do having Arroyo.

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    • johnd

      Participant
      Post count: 333

      you guys would be better with Glennon starting. 

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    • dalaca

      Participant
      Post count: 1975

      Yes. :)

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    • dalaca

      Participant
      Post count: 1975

      you guys would be better with Glennon starting.

      The Panthers would be better with Mariota starting, or is there just a boredom that exists in  Carolina these days, where their fans have nothing better to do than comment about teams they care nothing about??Granted either of the Carolina's are a pretty bleak place to be, but at least y'all have something to do eight days out of each year, while waiting for the tobacco to be harvested.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Want to know why Jameis is better than last years QBs?

      Simple answer....Koetter

      Because it could not be talent? Lol. I don't intend to discount the OC, but one would expect a Heisman winning QB drafted first overall to have more talent than 2 back up QBs drafted in the middle rounds. Right?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      How hard would it be to get better when they had their wagon hitched to a 35 year old journeyman?But, it's close...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 583

      I still don't get the people that wanted to trade down in 2014 draft or the 2015 draft.  Can you imagine this team without Evans and Winston?

      Yeah, we'd have OBJ and MM plus extra draft picks had we negotiated a flip with Tenn.  Or Carr and Cooper plus a lot of extra picks.  Evans and Winston arent busts but they were hardly THE BEST use of those assets.  Im still not convinced anyone would have taken Winston high but us.  QB's tend to fall anyhow, let alone one as shaky as he was coming out. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 583

      How hard would it be to get better when they had their wagon hitched to a 35 year old journeyman?But, it's close...

      Here is a 25 year old journeyman that could have been had for less than the first pick in the draft  His 2014 stats:180-284 63.4%  2001 Yards 12 TD's 9 Ints.  Team record as a starter 3-5

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 253

      I’ll go with, It’s the most hope I’ve had for a QB in a really long time…..  ever?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      Hope doesn’t have a lot to do with the first 3 games…

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      U know; for nostalgia reasons

      Yeah, because it isnt too comparable the farther back. Different times, different rules.But you would rather use your time on here being a whinerbaby, so i doubt you really know much about football.Sorry to offend your baby winston. Nothing like comparing stats to upset someone, lol. So horrible!

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    • dalaca

      Participant
      Post count: 1975

      U know; for nostalgia reasons

      Yeah, because it isnt too comparable the farther back. Different times, different rules.

      Most true. The game has changed a great deal over time, thus making stats somewhat insignificant.Doug Williams had a very low completion percentage, compared to what is expected today; however, he was instrumental in bringing a Super Bowl win to the Redskins, and probably one of their best QBs that has played for them in a good while.I would take Doug in Burgundy and Gold over anyone they've had at the position since he was there.(Well, McNab wasn't too bad, but he was also at the end of his career.)

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 286

      Well.. I personally wanted to draft Winston so we would be better at the QB position from 2017-2027. Felt like we would regress for the 1st 2 years until he gets time under his belt. Hell.. Took Aaron Rodgers and Tyrod Taylor 3 years before they were good enough to start.

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    • dalaca

      Participant
      Post count: 1975

      Well.. I personally wanted to draft Winston so we would be better at the QB position from 2017-2027. Felt like we would regress for the 1st 2 years until he gets time under his belt. Hell.. Took Aaron Rodgers and Tyrod Taylor 3 years before they were good enough to start.

      Agreed. I'm looking at the long term. I don't expect a rookie to carry us to a Super Bowl, or even the playoffs. He's just one person; however, he is a good start at putting this team on the right path.Very good point with Tyrod Taylor. He's just now coming into his own, and has had some amazing play since getting the starting position.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Without Evans how worse would have Arroyo looked last year?Bucs were not picking ODB if they traded down nice fantasy.  Bridgewater/Cooper combo is more plausible but again no guarantee.Trade down is nice if a team needs depth but the Bucs #1 priority is finding starters that can come in and play.  Depth is a secondary problem that top tier teams worry about.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 648

      Well.. I personally wanted to draft Winston so we would be better at the QB position from 2017-2027. Felt like we would regress for the 1st 2 years until he gets time under his belt. Hell.. Took Aaron Rodgers and Tyrod Taylor 3 years before they were good enough to start.

      Agreed. I'm looking at the long term. I don't expect a rookie to carry us to a Super Bowl, or even the playoffs. He's just one person; however, he is a good start at putting this team on the right path.Very good point with Tyrod Taylor. He's just now coming into his own, and has had some amazing play since getting the starting position.

      What's this? A sane Bucs fan? Blasphemy!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 253

      Hope doesn't have a lot to do with the first 3 games...

      Does for me.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 103

      Well.. I personally wanted to draft Winston so we would be better at the QB position from 2017-2027. Felt like we would regress for the 1st 2 years until he gets time under his belt. Hell.. Took Aaron Rodgers and Tyrod Taylor 3 years before they were good enough to start.

      Agreed. I'm looking at the long term. I don't expect a rookie to carry us to a Super Bowl, or even the playoffs. He's just one person; however, he is a good start at putting this team on the right path.Very good point with Tyrod Taylor. He's just now coming into his own, and has had some amazing play since getting the starting position.

      What's this? A sane Bucs fan? Blasphemy!

      I wouldn't necessarily say sane, Tyrod Taylor and Aaron Rodgers are not comparable. If Taylor can be consistent for multiple years then maybe, but at this point that is not an assessable statement. As for Winston he is developing but there will be many more growing pains over this season. Without a dominate running game there will be a larger toll on his arm and body through the next 13 games.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      Hope doesn't have a lot to do with the first 3 games...

      Does for me.

      How'd that work out for you?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      As a few people like to say....The Redskins were better off at the QB position the 1st three games of RG3's career too.Again, it is way to early for any stat to be meaningful in any manner.  For every Steve Young comparison, I'm sure there are three of four Jamarcus Russell type comparisons too.  And that is simply because there are many more QB's that fail than succeed. But so far, by the eyeball test, Winston just looks better than what we have had in a long while.  He wants to win, he is composed. He is working the field.  He makes some great throws.  I'm very encouraged but not yet 100% sold on Winston.  That will take closer to two years.  Then we will know if it's flash in the pan or long term franchise QB.

      Totally agree.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Want to know why Jameis is better than last years QBs? Pocket awareness. There is no way Mccown or Glennon takes 0 sacks against Houston.

      Glennon is a decent QB for a team that runs a ground and pound game.  If Glennon was part of the Alstott and Dunn days no one would be asking him to be replaced.  But the game has changed drastically since then.People can point to Winston's INT's and Mariota's fumbles but at the end of the day a QB that take sacks is hard to win with. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      U know; for nostalgia reasons

      Yeah, because it isnt too comparable the farther back. Different times, different rules.

      Most true. The game has changed a great deal over time, thus making stats somewhat insignificant.Doug Williams had a very low completion percentage, compared to what is expected today; however, he was instrumental in bringing a Super Bowl win to the Redskins, and probably one of their best QBs that has played for them in a good while.I would take Doug in Burgundy and Gold over anyone they've had at the position since he was there.(Well, McNab wasn't too bad, but he was also at the end of his career.)

      Yeah, thats exactly what i meant.We can go back and look, but for the most part, the game isnt the same. Five, maybe ten year increments would probably be more accurate, but yeah, for nostalgia reasons, i would like to look.Just wanted gold to do his own rendition. I disagree with him, a lot, but i also respect his football opinon.Heck, someone else can do their own if they like. I dont care if its bias or not, just that someone isnt going totally overboard and suggesting crablegs equals tds/losses.

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    • dalaca

      Participant
      Post count: 1975

      U know; for nostalgia reasons

      Yeah, because it isnt too comparable the farther back. Different times, different rules.

      Most true. The game has changed a great deal over time, thus making stats somewhat insignificant.Doug Williams had a very low completion percentage, compared to what is expected today; however, he was instrumental in bringing a Super Bowl win to the Redskins, and probably one of their best QBs that has played for them in a good while.I would take Doug in Burgundy and Gold over anyone they've had at the position since he was there.(Well, McNab wasn't too bad, but he was also at the end of his career.)

      Yeah, thats exactly what i meant.We can go back and look, but for the most part, the game isnt the same. Five, maybe ten year increments would probably be more accurate, but yeah, for nostalgia reasons, i would like to look.Just wanted gold to do his own rendition. I disagree with him, a lot, but i also respect his football opinon.Heck, someone else can do their own if they like. I dont care if its bias or not, just that someone isnt going totally overboard and suggesting crablegs equals tds/losses.

      Very true.I would also like to see how some of the old players would compare to the current ones. A lot of times, I miss the way the game used to be played. I know they need to focus on safety and such, but there are still a lot of times I miss old school football. QBs had it rougher becuase defenses could actually hit them. I think I've seen Terry Bradshaw do at least a half dozen cartwheels after getting cut out at the knees.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      U know; for nostalgia reasons

      Yeah, because it isnt too comparable the farther back. Different times, different rules.

      Most true. The game has changed a great deal over time, thus making stats somewhat insignificant.Doug Williams had a very low completion percentage, compared to what is expected today; however, he was instrumental in bringing a Super Bowl win to the Redskins, and probably one of their best QBs that has played for them in a good while.I would take Doug in Burgundy and Gold over anyone they've had at the position since he was there.(Well, McNab wasn't too bad, but he was also at the end of his career.)

      Yeah, thats exactly what i meant.We can go back and look, but for the most part, the game isnt the same. Five, maybe ten year increments would probably be more accurate, but yeah, for nostalgia reasons, i would like to look.Just wanted gold to do his own rendition. I disagree with him, a lot, but i also respect his football opinon.Heck, someone else can do their own if they like. I dont care if its bias or not, just that someone isnt going totally overboard and suggesting crablegs equals tds/losses.

      Very true.I would also like to see how some of the old players would compare to the current ones. A lot of times, I miss the way the game used to be played. I know they need to focus on safety and such, but there are still a lot of times I miss old school football. QBs had it rougher becuase defenses could actually hit them. I think I've seen Terry Bradshaw do at least a half dozen cartwheels after getting cut out at the knees.

      Lol, terry.You add in things like, the brady rule, defenseless receiver, rbs lowering their heads, jamming wrs, and late hits get called MUCH more quickly, as well as PI as often.I guess it works both ways though, as i could only imagine a jerry rice that didnt have to fight for a ball.So many variables when looking at the past, in some instances its better just to aviod the conversation.But, im a curious guy. I like to look back at the greats. Dan Marino, warren moon, steve young, montana, brett favre, doug williams, jim kelly, tarkenton, or even Johnny U or otto G.The whole entire game is different, so you take it with a grain of salt.  Still, these men before them dealt with adversity, just like these fellows are now. I think its fair to include them, but also to make assumptions on HOW these same players would do now, in today's nfl.Winston is no exception. I honestly would be ecstatic if winston would be pulling numbers of the first years of a lot of these players. Well, maybe not ecstatic, but more comfortable about the pick.There is an ebb and flow, a circle, or a cycle, if you will. I just want to know, do we have a jruss, freeman, or manning? Because ultimately, thats what you should be expecting/hoping for from a first overall pick. And i would almost expect, the bucs, of all teams, to be the team to boast that glorious honor next.I just want wins, could care less who helps that come to pass.

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