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    • freddy

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      Post count: 956

      Ok, lets start this off by establishing the two groups of thought that many people seem to be mixing together. The first group are those who think the OLine needs desperate attention and then there is the group that may agree the OLine could use help, but believe Koetter and Licht are mostly happy with what they have.

      I’m part of the second group. Yes I do think the OLine could use a few more studs, but I think I understand K&L’s thinking. Koetter even said, we could use new pieces everywhere. There is not a single position group that couldn’t use some attention. But keeping within the scope of just one offseason, what is the best way to make the greatest impact to win more games in 2017?

      Going into 2017 with Humpries, Sheppard, Martino and Huff as the 2-5 WR’s will not win us many games. Neither will Cross, Myers, and Stocker. Martin is gone. Sims and Quizz are role players not 16 game starters. One thing that is a fact, none of these players are explosive. Humpries is the closest one to it. But of all the WR screens that he ran, how many went for big yardage? Put a Cory Davis in there and maybe a few of those break open. Speed with talent kills.

      Except for the WR screen, how many times did Winston take a 1-3 step drop and fire? How many quick slants did we see? Yeah not many. Again, put a talented WR in there with speed and now the LBs need to keep their depth instead on crowding the line. Put a RB that can beat a DE and LB to the corner and again the defense has to back up a little. Have a quality 2nd TE and they can’t successfully cover him with a DE. My point being, the OLine can be helped with play calling if there is talent at the skill positions. Right now, except for Evans, most defenses believe they can cover the rest (including Brate) with minimal effort. As a result they can focus on getting to the QB. Force them to actually respect and maybe even fear the skill position players, and it’s a game changer for the OLine.

      So there are two ways to improve the OLine. Get (draft or FA) more studs and try to build a massive wall. Problem with that, that won’t make Martino or Cross any better. Add a Corey Davis, Bucky Hodges and a good RB, not only did you improve those positions, but you helped the OLine too. And from what Koetter has said in his press conferences, I think that is what he wants to do too.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3212

      They need to draft defensive linemen and offensive linemen. The rest will fix itself.

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    • GottaJaboo

      Blocked
      Post count: 5942

      WE have the money to do any and all of these things. Watching Cam Robinson on media days this morning, I would really love for him to fall to us. But in the era of the Cowboys OL success being the sole reason for their offensive success, I think Cam will go very early. I am hoping FA has some good OL available.

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    • freddy

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      Post count: 956

      They need to draft defensive linemen and offensive linemen. The rest will fix itself.

      How, by magic? Is Martino all of a sudden gonna become Julio Jones? Sorry, but even with Dallas OLine, our WRs still suck. Bryant, Beasley, Elliott and Witten and much better than Evans, Humpries, Sims and Brate. It’s more than just OLine.

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    • CalicoJackLV

      Participant
      Post count: 8517

      Dallas and Oakland were the only playoff teams on the Buc’s schedule that they didn’t beat. They pushed our guys around. If you want bigger margins of victory, go with the skill position. If you want championships, beef up.

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    • spurzo

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      Post count: 214

      Nothing will help Jameis take another step forward more than improving the o-line.  Taking Pitt Guard Dorian Johnson in the 3rd would be a solid pick

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    • Buc Bauce

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      Post count: 709

      I completely agree with Freddy.

      Don Smith, Pamphile, Hawley, Marpet, Dotson is a GOOD offensive line. Not great, the RT and C positions could be beefed up in the coming years, but I think both Hawley and Dotson are at worst average. The other 3 – Smith, KP, and Ali are above average, with Ali being pretty damn good. I also think there’s decent depth there as well.

      So, in terms of the quickest way to make improvements to the offense, it’s definitely in the Skill Position department that we are severely lacking as Freddy has pointed out.

      Freddy’s point about having feared / respected skill position players to help take some pressure off the OL is being over looked.

      If a DC knows he can take Evans out of the game with 2 defenders, that means you have to have a WR, TE or RB that can win a 1 on 1 match-up. We have no one on this roster that can consistently do that besides Brate, and even he was streaky. 2 guys that can win a 1 on 1 match-up is not enough.

      As outlined in another thread, Koetter and Co have crunched the numbers and determined that explosive plays are the second leading factor contributing to winning games. We need more explosive plays! The OL is fine, get some SPEED!

      I’d love to see Davis, Njoku, and Perine in the 1st – 3rd rounds, we can grab another WR, Safety and DE in FA. If we did that we’d instantly be a much better team.

      Plus I think if Koetter can improve his play calling or see if Monken can do better, that will give us even more opportunities for explosives.

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    • Dy-nasty D

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      Post count: 267

      A couple of years ago, the prevailing philosophy of most football fans was that you can pick up OL by drafting mid to low round talent. The Cowboys took advantage of drafting dominant OL to counter teams gearing their defenses for the “passing league”. It’s working because they are leading a trend. It’s the new flavor.

      Bottom line, there are a lot of ways to win and GMs need to figure out a formula that works, or get replaced.

      Personally, I’d like BPA to fall WR, DT, and C early on. But if BPA is a DE, S, CB, or TE, any of those could definitely help, as well. DON’T trade up – this team has multiple needs.

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    • Detrimental

      Participant
      Post count: 1567

      This offensive line is below average. The offensive line is NOT fine these dudes simply cannot RUN block. We got blown TF up on short down distances. We got physically dismantled when we needed to play big. These dudes simply cannot cut it! Hawley gets blown TF back faster than your head can spin. Pamphile doesn’t run block well. Smith and Marpet can when they are locked in. Dotson as a run blocker is a joke. And his pass block skills are overrated. O line STINKS. D+

       

      Yes we need receivers. Thats NOT difficult to find. Quality linemen are though and we need to do our dilligence. Winston was the only way we were scoring in the red zone. Get him a running game to take the pressure off him. Its ridiculous that fans think this group of lineman played well. Improve red zone efficiency with a running game. Its hard to pass in the red zone as is.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 348

      Stats bear out that the run blocking grades have been directly correlated to the health of Doug Martin. Football outsiders grades the Bucs’ Oline 27th, 32nd, and 21st in Doug’s three down years of 2013, 2014, 2016. Doug’s two great years, 2012 and 2015, the Oline graded at 13th and 9th respectively in the run game.

      Now, conclude what you wish, but Koetter wants a better running game, whether that’s better run blocking or more dependable talent at RB. I do not believe they will draft an OL based primarily on pass blocking skills. Jameis is already successful at short-intermediate to Brate and intermediate to Evans. Slants and the long ball are accuracy issues, not OL pass blocking imo. For that matter, I don’t believe another highly drafted WR will help significantly in those two weak areas either. To Koetter, and I agree, they want to run the ball better and more consistent.

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    • GMACsBlankey

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      Post count: 357

      Line struggled to run block but wasn’t horrible as evidenced when Quizz and Barber had the rock.

      Corey Davis would be a great pick though. Him or Mike Williams are probably my two favorites for the first round, Peppers being a distant third if he slips.

      Drafting a tight end in the second would be beyond stupid, my lord.

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    • Buc Bauce

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      Post count: 709

      Line struggled to run block but wasn’t horrible as evidenced when Quizz and Barber had the rock. Corey Davis would be a great pick though. Him or Mike Williams are probably my two favorites for the first round, Peppers being a distant third if he slips. Drafting a tight end in the second would be beyond stupid, my lord.

      A TE that can stretch the field and run after the catch is beyond stupid? OK.

      On a separate note, I do think many of the run plays were very predictable, and we tried running into far too many stacked boxes.

      Another WR that can beat 1 on 1 coverage would really help open things up.

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    • BucNCane

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      Post count: 1065

      You can do both. I think Pamphile sucks and hope Sweezy is the answer. I think Hawley is degrading and hope we draft a C in the first 4 rounds to compete. I think Dotson isn’t very good anymore and that Smith will take his place after next year when we draft a LT next year.

      I also think we actually need some skill position players. Need a WR and a rangy FS at least.

      Would love to go Davis / Cook / Adams in the first.

      1-5  get a wr s ol rb dl.

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    • RogerGoodellSucks

      Participant
      Post count: 343

      The o-line needs to be addressed and the fact that Koetter thinks this unit is fine is very concerning IMO. Really hope Licht doesn’t feel that way. It is at the very best average, and that is being very generous. 5th most QB hits allowed this year and bottom 5 YPC for the running game is just completely unacceptable. I love Hawley’s attitude but he just isn’t a great player. He’s too small and gets pushed around way too much.

      The Tackle play definitely could be better too. If a good OT hits FA or a good one falls in the draft we need to take them. I would be very upset if Cam Robinson fell and we passed on him. Not so sure about the rest of this draft class and if anyone else would be worth a top 20 pick, but I would like to see us take another OT in 2nd or 3rd if Robinson doesn’t fall and we can’t get one in FA. For C, I wouldn’t want to spend a top 20 pick on one but we definitely should look for one in FA or the mid rounds.

      Yes, we definitely need to address WR too, I think these are our 2 biggest needs. If a guy like a Corey Davis fell to 19, I would be ecstatic. Davis plus adding a FA like Robert Woods would completely turn around this receiving core and give Jameis plenty of weapons. Snag a C or OT in FA and then draft whichever we don’t get in FA and a RB in rounds 2-4 (would like another pass rusher or Safety somewhere in there too) and this offense would be deadly in a year or two.

      I also think a good o-line would be more important than weapons if I had to choose between the 2. If you have a great o-line that gives you all day to throw like Carr and Dak have, guys are going to get open it doesn’t really matter how bad they are. Secondaries can’t cover receivers forever and guys will eventually get open. Having a good o-line also gives you at least a decent run game which can open up the offense more. Weapons aren’t much good if your QB is getting crushed and pressured in 2-4 seconds every time he drops back.

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    • freddy

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      Post count: 956

      If you have a great o-line that gives you all day to throw like Carr and Dak have, guys are going to get open it doesn’t really matter how bad they are.

      That is so easy to say, but I don’t think it’s exactly true. First, both Dak and Carr have receiving cores much better than the Bucs. Second, most NFL routes are designed to last a maximum of 4 seconds. After that it’s basically street ball. So your WRs need to be good enough to get open within 4 seconds. Trying to rely on street ball is not a wining formula.

      You could put 5 HoF players in their prime on the line, but unless you have some talent at the skill positions, you won’t go far. The real answer is to have talent both on the OLine and at skill positions. People point to Dalls as the NFL model to winning. Yet with the exact same OLine last year, this model team went 4-12 with the 31st ranked offense who was also 31st in scoring. Sure they were 9th in rushing, but that didn’t help much.

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    • Biggs3535

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      Post count: 5948

      This offensive line is below average. The offensive line is NOT fine these dudes simply cannot RUN block.

      I had to laugh reading Hawley and Dotson rave about how great their partners on the OL are while also not being able to figure out why the rent are more explosive plays in the run game. Yeah, it’s a real head-scratcher.

      If Dirk really is happy with this unit’s performance, that’s an issue.  Smith needs to kick inside.  They gave him two seasons to prove he can play LT at a high level. He cannot.

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    • CalicoJackLV

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      Post count: 8517

      Koetter’s draft smoke rises early…

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    • RogerGoodellSucks

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      Post count: 343

      If you have a great o-line that gives you all day to throw like Carr and Dak have, guys are going to get open it doesn’t really matter how bad they are.

      That is so easy to say, but I don’t think it’s exactly true. First, both Dak and Carr have receiving cores much better than the Bucs. Second, most NFL routes are designed to last a maximum of 4 seconds. After that it’s basically street ball. So your WRs need to be good enough to get open within 4 seconds. Trying to rely on street ball is not a wining formula. You could put 5 HoF players in their prime on the line, but unless you have some talent at the skill positions, you won’t go far. The real answer is to have talent both on the OLine and at skill positions. People point to Dalls as the NFL model to winning. Yet with the exact same OLine last year, this model team went 4-12 with the 31st ranked offense who was also 31st in scoring. Sure they were 9th in rushing, but that didn’t help much.

      I agree both are important, I’m just saying if I had to pick one unit to have a ton of talent on, it would be OL. I definitely want to see Licht address both this off-season.

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    • ISLAND BUCS

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      Post count: 2928

      It seems that the Bucs need a WR and an effective LT badly.

      As a very general rule, many WR need some time to learn how to read defenses at the pro level and thus often don’t come out of college setting the league on fire.

      I’m for picking up a proven WR in FA (paying the money) like Pryor from Clev or Woods from Buf and then drafting a LT in the 1st (like McGlinchey).

      That would allow Marpet to move to center and Don Smith to play RG or RT depending on Sweezy’s outcome.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3212

      Bucs need to draft a defensive end before the fifth to ensure some talent is there…

      They need to draft a left tackle and wideout before the third.

      And an athletic, playmaking corner .

      Those should be the players selected with the first four.

       

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    • JC5100

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      Post count: 3080

      Warford would be a good signing. Move Marpet to center and the Bucs would be significantly better inside.

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    • Detrimental

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      Post count: 1567

      This offensive line is below average. The offensive line is NOT fine these dudes simply cannot RUN block.

      I had to laugh reading Hawley and Dotson rave about how great their partners on the OL are while also not being able to figure out why the rent are more explosive plays in the run game. Yeah, it’s a real head-scratcher. If Dirk really is happy with this unit’s performance, that’s an issue. Smith needs to kick inside. They gave him two seasons to prove he can play LT at a high level. He cannot.

      Agreed. Perhaps he is a better RT if we don’t move him inside.

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    • ktownbuc47

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      Post count: 176

      I am on the draft OL bandwagon, but I would rather draft a C and leave Marpet at OG where he’s been stellar since day 1.

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    • Easythe great

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      Post count: 368

      We need an athletic Center with the ability to pull and get to his blocks. I remember several negative runs that were Hawleys fault by not getting to his man.

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    • freddy

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      Post count: 956

      We need an athletic Center with the ability to pull and get to his blocks. I remember several negative runs that were Hawleys fault by not getting to his man.

      I would agree that C is the weakest link.

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    • Biggs3535

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      Post count: 5948

      We need an athletic Center with the ability to pull and get to his blocks. I remember several negative runs that were Hawleys fault by not getting to his man.

      And that’s an area that Marpet excels in.  I think he could be an All-Pro Center. Not sure his ceiling’s as high at Guard.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3212

      Hawley was hurt every other series. He is terrible.

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    • dexmonkey

      Participant
      Post count: 1898

      Hawley was hurt every other series. He is terrible.

      Hawley is a try hard guy and he pisses opponenets off and plays hard but hes just not reliable or talented enough. i like the intangibles he brings but this is a results based business and hes not good enough

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    • Alldaway 2.0

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      Post count: 4437

      Bucs have two young guys that can take over the offensive center duties and to act anchors on the line.  But watching the playoff games this weekend reinforced my belief the Bucs need to add an athletic OT with good feet this off season whether through the draft or free agency.

      Screw the idea that the Bucs are happy with their OT’s because they have Wester lol.  Wester is a nice developmental guy but he is just a jag and is being developed for depth if Pamphille takes the starting gig at LG in 2017.  Dotson is going to be 32 by next October and he looks very sluggish given he has been more athletic in the past so father time is catching up to him.  And Donovan Smith is still too inconsistent.

       

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    • ktownbuc47

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      Post count: 176

      Good Article on the OL by Roy.

      http://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/return-j-r-sweezy-critical-rebuilding-buccaneers/

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    • freddy

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      Post count: 956

      Good Article on the OL by Roy.

      Return of J.R. Sweezy could be critical for rebuilding Buccaneers

      <iframe class=”wp-embedded-content” title=”“Return of J.R. Sweezy could be critical for rebuilding Buccaneers” — FanRag Sports” src=”http://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/return-j-r-sweezy-critical-rebuilding-buccaneers/embed/#?secret=XfI9o1ZVdH&#8221; width=”500″ height=”511″ frameborder=”0″ marginwidth=”0″ marginheight=”0″ scrolling=”no” sandbox=”allow-scripts” data-secret=”XfI9o1ZVdH”></iframe>

      A very refreshing quote from the article…

       

      That’s no small factor for Buccaneers coach Dirk Koetter, who says his top priority as a coach is to determine the strengths and weaknesses of his players and his team and to then find a way to play to those strengths while hiding the weaknesses

      A coach who adjusts his play calling to the players available instead of trying to force the players into a system.  This is exactly how adding some explosive players can help the Oline.

      If there is a top tier lineman talent available, I’d still draft him/FA sign, but I’d still rather get the explosive players and go with the Oline players we have now.

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    • Swillyboy15

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      Post count: 869

      Ryan Ramczyk is a name that has shot up draft boards and will probably continue to do so. With the draft still being 3 months or so away I don’t know that he will be there when we pick at 19 but the kid is going to be really good for a really long time in the NFL.

      A dominant run blocker and has really athletic feet to get out and lead block (which would be great, think about how many blocks D. Smith missed trying to lead block for a screen). He’s almost as good in pass pro as he is at run blocking. Much of his film is him getting his long arms on the DE and just riding him out of the play past the QB. Has the quick feet to counter an inside move as well.

      The only downside to his tape is he’s a tall dude and struggles with pad height from time to time. That gets him leaning into the block, his hips over his feet and his back bent… that’s coachable though.

      He’s got a little bit of Hawley in him with his rough and tough, play every second of the game, first to clean up a pile demeanor.

      If we could land Ramczyk at 19 he’d plug right in at LT. Move Smith inside. Idk what I would do with the Marpet to center experiment… he’s really good at RG but could he be even better at center?

      If you draft Ramczyk, kick Smith to RG and Marpet to C you upgrade 2 spots (LT and C) while hoping Smith is better suited inside (as he should be) with his less than desired athletic ability.

      I’m ok with Pamphile at LG and we still need a RT but you only get so many draft picks.

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    • Detrimental

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      Post count: 1567

      Ryan Ramczyk is a name that has shot up draft boards and will probably continue to do so. With the draft still being 3 months or so away I don’t know that he will be there when we pick at 19 but the kid is going to be really good for a really long time in the NFL. A dominant run blocker and has really athletic feet to get out and lead block (which would be great, think about how many blocks D. Smith missed trying to lead block for a screen). He’s almost as good in pass pro as he is at run blocking. Much of his film is him getting his long arms on the DE and just riding him out of the play past the QB. Has the quick feet to counter an inside move as well. The only downside to his tape is he’s a tall dude and struggles with pad height from time to time. That gets him leaning into the block, his hips over his feet and his back bent… that’s coachable though. He’s got a little bit of Hawley in him with his rough and tough, play every second of the game, first to clean up a pile demeanor. If we could land Ramczyk at 19 he’d plug right in at LT. Move Smith inside. Idk what I would do with the Marpet to center experiment… he’s really good at RG but could he be even better at center? If you draft Ramczyk, kick Smith to RG and Marpet to C you upgrade 2 spots (LT and C) while hoping Smith is better suited inside (as he should be) with his less than desired athletic ability. I’m ok with Pamphile at LG and we still need a RT but you only get so many draft picks.

      Completely on board with this. I think I can stomach Dotson another year if we overhaul the other side.

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    • BucsBay

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      Post count: 1941

      The hip injury scares me with Ramczyk. I don’t know much about him, but Garret Bolles looks interesting from his youtube tape blowing people up.

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    • freddy

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      Post count: 956

      The hip injury scares me with Ramczyk. I don’t know much about him, but Garret Bolles looks interesting from his youtube tape blowing people up.

      Don’t know why it would?  We haven’t had any problems with FA lineman and injuries before.  Right?

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    • Swillyboy15

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      Post count: 869

      The hip injury scares me with Ramczyk. I don’t know much about him, but Garret Bolles looks interesting from his youtube tape blowing people up.

      Yeah, he has essentially been playing with a hip that pops in and out. The ball and socket pretty much grind together and I would imagine it causes some excruciating pain.

      He’s a tough dude and played with it much of the year but its one of those injuries that if he keeps plaing with it, he’ll eventually need a total hip replacement.

      He’s only a junior and could get it repaired then go back to school and come out next year as one of the top tackles again.

      He’s just my favorite of the bunch of possibilities in this years draft…

      On second thought, with our luck with OL and health issues maybe we should stay away (lol but not funny).

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    • BucsBay

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      Post count: 1941

      On second thought, with our luck with OL and health issues maybe we should stay away (lol but not funny).

      Everyone loves to say O-Line in the 1st, but where we pick there probably isn’t going to be good value on the board. Hopefully a guy who could be a day two diamond in the rough comes to light at the Senior Bowl.

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    • Swillyboy15

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      Post count: 869

      On second thought, with our luck with OL and health issues maybe we should stay away (lol but not funny).

      Everyone loves to say O-Line in the 1st, but where we pick there probably isn’t going to be good value on the board. Hopefully a guy who could be a day two diamond in the rough comes to light at the Senior Bowl.

      The draft is still far, far away. Theres gonna be risers and fallers all over the place. We will probably end up picking someone nobody expects right now.

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    • BucNCane

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      Post count: 1065

      Sweezy is going to be a key cog in this offseason. If he comes back we can do a lot of things.

      If we go LT in the first few rounds then you have options of moving d smith to RT or LG . Can keep Marpet at RG or move to c. Can keep pamp at LG or move to RT.

      Would personally prefer an OL of either (assuming we use a first on an LT) Rook, D Smith, Marpet, Sweezy, Pamp/Dotson.

      Or if we do an earlier round C: D Smith Sweezy Rook C Marpet Pamp/DDotson.

      Even if we do nothing in FA or Draft then still got a much more solid Smith Sweezy Hawley Marpet Pamp/Dotson

       

       

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    • GoldsonAges

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      Post count: 2945

      DSmith has always played LT. He’s not versatile at all. If he’s moving at all it would be to LG. No way he moves to the right side.

      I think the right side is ok anyway. LT and OC are the weaknesses. Maybe Pamphile could play C And we can draft a LT, even if he is a backup to groom to take over. DSmith has such a low motor. So disappointing

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    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1941

      On second thought, with our luck with OL and health issues maybe we should stay away (lol but not funny).

      Everyone loves to say O-Line in the 1st, but where we pick there probably isn’t going to be good value on the board. Hopefully a guy who could be a day two diamond in the rough comes to light at the Senior Bowl.

      The draft is still far, far away. Theres gonna be risers and fallers all over the place. We will probably end up picking someone nobody expects right now.

      The last 3 years we’ve picked exactly who everyone expected us to in the 1st. Picking 19th it’s a little different, but I expect the Bucs to target a big name again this year.

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    • Biggs3535

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      Post count: 5948

      DSmith has always played LT. He’s not versatile at all. If he’s moving at all it would be to LG. No way he moves to the right side. I think the right side is ok anyway. LT and OC are the weaknesses. Maybe Pamphile could play C And we can draft a LT, even if he is a backup to groom to take over. DSmith has such a low motor. So disappointing

      I don’t think he’d be any better at RT. Teams move their best pass rushers around, and they would find him. He needs to move inside.

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    • dexmonkey

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      Post count: 1898

      DSmith has always played LT. He’s not versatile at all. If he’s moving at all it would be to LG. No way he moves to the right side. I think the right side is ok anyway. LT and OC are the weaknesses. Maybe Pamphile could play C And we can draft a LT, even if he is a backup to groom to take over. DSmith has such a low motor. So disappointing

      I don’t think he’d be any better at RT. Teams move their best pass rushers around, and they would find him. He needs to move inside.

       

      DSmith has always played LT. He’s not versatile at all. If he’s moving at all it would be to LG. No way he moves to the right side. I think the right side is ok anyway. LT and OC are the weaknesses. Maybe Pamphile could play C And we can draft a LT, even if he is a backup to groom to take over. DSmith has such a low motor. So disappointing

      I don’t think he’d be any better at RT. Teams move their best pass rushers around, and they would find him. He needs to move inside.

      agreed. i think he could be a good LG

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    • GoldsonAges

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      Post count: 2945

      I think DSmith has one last year to prove he can play LT at this level.

       

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    • Jr.3

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      Post count: 424

      Center IMO is the biggest weakness on the Bucs O-line. I love Hawley but he should be a backup, and he would be a great backup at that. There are a couple good Center prospects in the  2nd and 3rd round.

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    • Swillyboy15

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      Post count: 869

      DSmith has always played LT. He’s not versatile at all. If he’s moving at all it would be to LG. No way he moves to the right side. I think the right side is ok anyway. LT and OC are the weaknesses. Maybe Pamphile could play C And we can draft a LT, even if he is a backup to groom to take over. DSmith has such a low motor. So disappointing

      I don’t think he’d be any better at RT. Teams move their best pass rushers around, and they would find him. He needs to move inside.

      We dont know for sure how the coaches feel abut D. Smith as fas as if a move is in order or not. We do know the tape doesn’t lie. He got beat around the edge often and gave up when the defender got past his hip. Thats not going to fly for a LT or RT. If they do move him, it will certainly be to guard. He his better suited to play guard anyways. Physically and skill set wise.

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    • tiapanda

      Participant
      Post count: 424

      Unfortunately I don’t see the Bucs moving Smith from LT.  I’m afraid they’ll be too stubborn to admit he isn’t suited for the position they drafted him for.  I think we’re stuck with him there for awhile, so hopefully he can improve.  Regardless, we need a new RT and C.  It’s obvious that Dotson is breaking down physically and just isn’t good anymore.  The middle of our line gets blown up regularly because of Hawley.  The Bucs probably think they have their replacements in-house.  We don’t know how they feel about Gottschalk at C or Pamphile at RT.  They seem to like Benenoch a lot, so he’s probably the future LG.  If Sweezy comes back strong I would like to see Marpet moved to C.  I think the Bucs should continue their practice of drafting OL in the 4th or 5th rounds in this draft, unless a stud C or T drops to us.

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    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1941

      I don’t get the Hawley hate. He and Marpet are guys you can build around imo. The tackle positions are what need upgraded.

       

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    • Detrimental

      Participant
      Post count: 1567

      I don’t get the Hawley hate. He and Marpet are guys you can build around imo. The tackle positions are what need upgraded.

      Hawley is a liability and a big reason why we get stuffed on third and short situations.

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5948

      Unfortunately I don’t see the Bucs moving Smith from LT. I’m afraid they’ll be too stubborn to admit he isn’t suited for the position they drafted him for.

       

      Unfortunately, I think you’re correct.

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    • RogerGoodellSucks

      Participant
      Post count: 343

      I don’t get the Hawley hate. He and Marpet are guys you can build around imo. The tackle positions are what need upgraded.

      I love Hawley and his attitude, but he is undersized and gets pushed around a lot. He’s okay as a stopgap, but we could definitely improve there. Would love him as depth though.

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    • freddy

      Participant
      Post count: 956

      Unfortunately I don’t see the Bucs moving Smith from LT. I’m afraid they’ll be too stubborn to admit he isn’t suited for the position they drafted him for. I think we’re stuck with him there for awhile, so hopefully he can improve. Regardless, we need a new RT and C. It’s obvious that Dotson is breaking down physically and just isn’t good anymore. The middle of our line gets blown up regularly because of Hawley. The Bucs probably think they have their replacements in-house. We don’t know how they feel about Gottschalk at C or Pamphile at RT. They seem to like Benenoch a lot, so he’s probably the future LG. If Sweezy comes back strong I would like to see Marpet moved to C. I think the Bucs should continue their practice of drafting OL in the 4th or 5th rounds in this draft, unless a stud C or T drops to us.

      I don’t think they are just being stubborn.  If anything, Koetter has shown he will go to the next man up if needed. I think they simply don’t agree with you and many other fans here. And they are probably looking at it from a macro approach.  I know, everyone wants the next Joe Thomas, so do I.  But there just aren’t that many of them around.  Also, I remember many calling Tyron Smith a bust. In his 3rd year he blossomed.  I think Koetter thinks that 1) Smith will improve 2) he can game plan better to help Smith if needed and 3) adding more explosive pieces to the offense will help the entire Oline by spreading the defense out and not needing so many 5 and 7 step drops.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 778

      Skill guys can be gotten in free agency and take gambles late in the draft. For the big guys in the trenches it’s harder to get those types of guys in free agency. That’s where you spend your draft capital to get the hogs up front.

      We could easily sign two FA WRs, draft a RB late (4-6th rounds) and be good to go on the skill positions.

      We need to spend the 1-3rd round picks on OL and DL in my opinion. Those are the guys that set the tone for the game. While we have decent talent at DLine, those guys were constantly getting hurt and rotated out, you just need a ton of depth there and there were big drop offs when some of the guys like Ayers went down.

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    • Naismith

      Participant
      Post count: 297

      Also, I remember many calling Tyron Smith a bust. In his 3rd year he blossomed.

      I think you must be thinking about someone else. No one called Tyron Smith a bust early on except for maybe some Skip Bayless type.

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5948

      Also, I remember many calling Tyron Smith a bust. In his 3rd year he blossomed.

      I think you must be thinking about someone else. No one called Tyron Smith a bust early on except for maybe some Skip Bayless type.

      Not to mention that Smith “blossomed” well before his third season.  He wasn’t getting whipped on the reg like Don Smith has.

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    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1941

      Would you guys take Cam Robinson? He’s an interesting case study.

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    • freddy

      Participant
      Post count: 956

      Skill guys can be gotten in free agency and take gambles late in the draft. For the big guys in the trenches it’s harder to get those types of guys in free agency. That’s where you spend your draft capital to get the hogs up front.

      We could easily sign two FA WRs, draft a RB late (4-6th rounds) and be good to go on the skill positions.

      We need to spend the 1-3rd round picks on OL and DL in my opinion. Those are the guys that set the tone for the game. While we have decent talent at DLine, those guys were constantly getting hurt and rotated out, you just need a ton of depth there and there were big drop offs when some of the guys like Ayers went down.

      I keep hearing that skill guys can be gotten latter in the draft or FA. Then why don’t we have any? It just isn’t that simple. You can find guys who play the skill positions, but not many have skill. And some of the best Oline we have had, have been low round draft picks and FA. And the Oline talent in this years draft is weak. we don’t need to reach, even for Oline.

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    • freddy

      Participant
      Post count: 956

      Also, I remember many calling Tyron Smith a bust. In his 3rd year he blossomed.

      I think you must be thinking about someone else. No one called Tyron Smith a bust early on except for maybe some Skip Bayless type.

      I might have the names confused, I just remember it mentioned in a previous conversation. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Smith is a stud, he not. He got beat bad several times. I just think Koetter is happy with him and thinks he can help his young LT get better.

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5948

      Would you guys take Cam Robinson? He’s an interesting case study.

      I would, yes.  He’s not a perfect prospect, but he’s got a lot of things you look for.  He’s definitely better built to play outside than Smith is.

      i don’t expect him to be there @19.

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    • Swillyboy15

      Participant
      Post count: 869

      Would you guys take Cam Robinson? He’s an interesting case study.

      I would, yes. He’s not a perfect prospect, but he’s got a lot of things you look for. He’s definitely better built to play outside than Smith is.

      i don’t expect him to be there @19.

      I would take him at 19. As Biggs said, highly unlikely he’s there. He’ll more than likely be the first tackle off the board.

      Robinson, Pamphile, Marpet, Smith, Dotson would probably work out pretty well.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 778

      I keep hearing that skill guys can be gotten latter in the draft or FA. Then why don’t we have any? It just isn’t that simple. You can find guys who play the skill positions, but not many have skill. And some of the best Oline we have had, have been low round draft picks and FA. And the Oline talent in this years draft is weak. we don’t need to reach, even for Oline.

      We got VJax in FA, we haven’t spent money in FA on a skill position player since. That was a long long time ago. You have to pay to play and the Bucs haven’t been spending the money on it. Instead they’ve tried to pay O-Line/D-Line with little success in FA, when those guys are much more susceptible to variance based on team mates and scheme. Those guys you draft, the skill guys you pay money for.

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