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    • NotDeadYet

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      Post count: 1262

      1. Mike Evans – Not only big, tall, and physical, he’s got respectable speed, and finally, very good hands and a huge catching radius. Oh, and he'll be a factor in the run game, as he loves to get in his licks as a blocker. Eventual legit #1 receiver when Jackson retires.I generally don't like taking a WR this early, but this young man appears very grounded and has the total package, is very coachable and is a total team player. All the qualities of a future star.2. Austin Seferian-Jenkins - A surprise pick to me. This was a clear case of BAP over need, as we already have multiple experienced TEs on the roster. This gives us another big, tall receiving target with good hands and a huge catching radius. Only weakness is speed, but he's fast enough to be effective. And he is regarded as one of the better blocking TEs in this draft. Gotta watch his weight, but he's already vowed to stay at 260, which appears to be his best playing weight.3. Charles Sims - Another VERY surprise pick. Like many I'm sure, I was floored we hadn't taken a G! After hearing Lovie compare him to Matt Forte and Licht saying he's the best receiving RBin this draft, I calmed down some. I'm now thinking this is an insurance pick in case Doug Martin walks in 2 years when his contract is up. And TBH, Martin has looked awkward on swing passes,and hasn't shown much wiggle or change-of-speed in tight spaces, trying to accelerate thru traffic when he should be more patient. Martin is STILL a very good RB in my book, but Sims uponfurther review may prove in time to be a better ALL ROUND back, a la Matt Forte. Hope they BOTH stick.I suspect RBs in Tedford's offense MUST be good receivers and blockers (Sims IS, on both counts) as well as good runners. Another BAP Licht said in his PR he just couldn't pass up.4. Kadeem Edwards - At last a G! After sitting on Yankey thru the 4th round, the thought we might have someone else in mind did occur to me. May not have been BAP, but certainly a position of need.Of course I never heard of Edwards, but  he appears to be a big, tough guy who's done well in the classroom as well as in football. https://twitter.com/gregauman/status/465243725401034752It'll be interesting to see how he fares compared with Yankey, who was taken a few picks later by the Vikings...5. Kevin Pamphile - I only discovered this pick because I went back to see if Yankey had been taken, thinking we might double dip at G. To my surprise, I saw a SECOND Buc pick had been made in the 5th. I remembered his name from the board, and he appears to be an athletic guy who can play T or G. Licht says he'll be tried as a swing T.Essentially, we traded Zuttah and our 7th to get him.  6. Robert Herron - A short (5'9"), strong (18 BP reps, compared to Evans' 12), and speedy track guy seemingly built to play the slot WR. I'd say he's a project. All the physical tools are there; we will see if Andrew Hayes-Stoker can develop those tools.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1125

      The way I see it is a lot of people are going to be trying for refunds for their season tickets after this crappy draft.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5572

      Good breakdown. Thanks for posting.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      The way I see it is a lot of people are going to be trying for refunds for their season tickets after this crappy draft.

      Translated.  Not enough white guys drafted.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1125

      The way I see it is a lot of people are going to be trying for refunds for their season tickets after this crappy draft.

      Translated.  Not enough white guys drafted.

      They drafted a lot of white guys, didn't they?   

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 831

      The way I see it is a lot of people are going to be trying for refunds for their season tickets after this crappy draft.

      In your dreams maybe. My buddy just got a pair of season tix.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      The way I see it is a lot of people are going to be trying for refunds for their season tickets after this crappy draft.

      In your dreams maybe. My buddy just got a pair of season tix.

      Must have been before the draft.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4274

      Pamphile to me seems like a RG even though they said he will start off at OT.  I don’t see Pamphile being a better backup swing tackle than Meredith or Jace Daniels. Herron is going to be used on bubble screens and have favorable matchups since VJax will shift into the slot and Evans will be on the opposite side.  Sims is going to be used a lot on third downs and Dougie is going to be the workhorse on the first two downs.  Edwards I think can step in at LG since Cousins is that bad but I think the team would rather have Meredith play LG and plug Edwards in at RG if Nicks can’t go.  Jenkins, Myers and Wright really opening up opportunities for two minute or red zone situations.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1166

      The way I see it is a lot of people are going to be trying for refunds for their season tickets after this crappy draft.

      In your dreams maybe. My buddy just got a pair of season tix.

      Must have been before the draft.

      I just had 6 buddies buy season tix

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1125

      Must have been before the draft.    One Buc was not open for ticket sales this weekend.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1166

      Must have been before the draft.    One Buc was not open for ticket sales this weekend.

      You twiddle dee, don't you know the internetz is open 24/7? ? silly gooseehttps://oss.ticketmaster.com/aps/bucs/EN/buy/details/14FULL 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1125

      Why would you buy them online?  If you go to One Buc, they give you a free tour of One Buc and the stadium and free merchandise.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1693

      Anything positive Java shits on. No one likes him here and he knows it.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1125

      No one likes me here and I knows it.

      Don't worry.  S&B and I like you.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1166

      Why would you buy them online?  If you go to One Buc, they give you a free tour of One Buc and the stadium and free merchandise.

      I know you are going to have a comeback for this but. . . . . .    people that live out of town ?  ? ?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1693

      you just edit my quote because you aren’t man enough to admit it yourself.I dare you to make an actual thread asking how many of us want you to leave here. You won't do it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2445

      Looking forward to seeing Mike Evans dominate and Java conveniently disappear

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1693

      He’ll find some way to warp and falsify actual reality to suit his arguments. He never owns up to anything. Ever.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      You internet bully, you.come_at_me_616.jpg

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 739

      You internet bully, you.come_at_me_616.jpg

      Larry you are the greatest, your posts about this being the best draft ever are right on!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1693

      Never did I give you permission to use my face. Remove it please.sharing my video i understand. **CENSORED** like this, no.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Bench reps on a short guy with short arms compared to the octopus arms if Evans is not an indicator of who is stronger. If they try to jam Evans, he is going to be busting routes wide open all game. You can't jam this guy. Too strong.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 252

      the 3rd rd is where i have an issue.  with no 4th rd pick you better make that early 3rd rd pick count because you’ll be waiting a looooong time to pick again. most of the guys on those”top remaining players for day 3″ lists will be gone.  the way rbs are treated now we didnt need to spend an early 3rd on a guy who’ll split time at best.  you can get a 3rd down back later on. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1498

      The more I think about the injury history at RB the more the Sims pick makes sense. Last year we relied so heavily on players coming off injury and none of them played up to expectations. Martin, James, and Demps all have to be considered injury risks at this point. It’s very realistic one of them doesn’t make it through camp and preseason without tweaking something. Not to mention that for a heavy looking to run a lot of RB screens and RB slats etc we majorly upgraded over James and Rainey. Still not sure there are enough balls to go around but it’s a good problem to have. Now I know how it feels to be a Saints fan.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 493

      Charles Sims might turn out to be a surprise pick. I’m excited for TC it will be a true battle at all positions.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 873

      Robert Herron is far from a project, I expect to contribute early

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 178

      Our Red zone O got a lot stronger in this draft and we will physical in the passing game. That is a major improvement. I think Sims, while a shock pick,was a great system pick for our OC. I love the pick of Brett Smith in UDFA. He maybe a great steal who could a future FQB (Johnny Football light)!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2847

      The more I think about the injury history at RB the more the Sims pick makes sense. Last year we relied so heavily on players coming off injury and none of them played up to expectations. Martin, James, and Demps all have to be considered injury risks at this point. It's very realistic one of them doesn't make it through camp and preseason without tweaking something. Not to mention that for a heavy looking to run a lot of RB screens and RB slats etc we majorly upgraded over James and Rainey. Still not sure there are enough balls to go around but it's a good problem to have. Now I know how it feels to be a Saints fan.

        Very good point. Licht in his PC practically said he expected one of the backs to get hurt somewhere along the line. RB is obviously a high injury-rate position.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2847

      Robert Herron is far from a project, I expect to contribute early

      Hope you’re right!  The only video I saw of him was turning on the jets; didn’t see any kind of route running in games. That’s all I was referring to.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2847

        An aspect that I really like about this class is no matter who ends up with the football, the others are willing and very able to BLOCK for the guy with the football. Even Herron has the strength and thickness to throw a block.That is very important when running a short passing game...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      Personally, I think this is the best draft the Bucs have had in about 20 years.  Gave me new hope for this regime.  I was extremely skeptical of this group until Friday night.  It’s nice to finally have hope after these last 5 years.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2847

          Apparently Tedford wants receivers who already have great hands. L&L tagged Evans, ASJ, and Sims as having the 3 best sets of hands in the draft. Dropsies have always been a problem with da Bucs; me thinks Tedford isn’t gonna tolerate that…

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 725

      Personally, I think this is the best draft the Bucs have had in about 20 years.  Gave me new hope for this regime.  I was extremely skeptical of this group until Friday night.  It's nice to finally have hope after these last 5 years.

      I love this draft too.  We have 4 guys who will contribute immediately to the 2013 worst ranked pass offense in Evans, ASJ, Sims and Herron and two developmental OL with huge upside.  Remember we have two other OL In Jace Daniels and Patrick Omameh that spent the whole season with the Bucs and should be ready for a bigger role to this year if needed.  Alot depends on Nicks playing all 16 games and I was initially thinking OG too in the 3rd before we took Sims.  However, Sims is being described as the best pass catching RB to come out in years and really seems to be tailor made for Tedford's offense.  We can find a OG during final cuts if we really need one. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 612

          Apparently Tedford wants receivers who already have great hands. L&L tagged Evans, ASJ, and Sims as having the 3 best sets of hands in the draft. Dropsies have always been a problem with da Bucs; me thinks Tedford isn't gonna tolerate that...

      That alone should probably shoot McCown's QBR up about 15 points this season.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5954

      I hope we’ll look back at this draft in 5 years and say it was a new guy feeling his way into the process.  Who you select is obviously a big part of the equation, almost as important (imo) is how well you acquire more chances to miss.  It doesn’t seem to me coincidence that the front offices that routinely put together the best rosters in the NFL are mostly those who are the most active and most willing to move down/out of their picks.  Exchanging particular slots/players for a greater volume of selections.  In Licht’s first opportunity to show some acumen in that area he failed wholly.  Worse, he mortgaged future selections for a pick in this draft.  That is a dangerous game to play as it puts significantly more pressure on he and his scouting staff to “hit”. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2847

      I hope we'll look back at this draft in 5 years and say it was a new guy feeling his way into the process.  Who you select is obviously a big part of the equation, almost as important (imo) is how well you acquire more chances to miss.  It doesn't seem to me coincidence that the front offices that routinely put together the best rosters in the NFL are mostly those who are the most active and most willing to move down/out of their picks.  Exchanging particular slots/players for a greater volume of selections.  In Licht's first opportunity to show some acumen in that area he failed wholly.  Worse, he mortgaged future selections for a pick in this draft.  That is a dangerous game to play as it puts significantly more pressure on he and his scouting staff to "hit".

        Amassing more picks is a fine practice for an already talented team. We were NOT. I just look at how really bad we were last season in our skill positions and the availability of very good skill players in this draft to explain our draft. Thru the first 3 rounds Licht never lost track of BAP in each round. In round 1, BAP also happened to be a position of need, while rounds 2 & 3 were not positions of need. Licht STILL went BAP. He said in his PR ASJ and Sims were too good to pass up, meaning they were too highly rated over any O’linemen available at the time.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5954

      Has nothing to do with what I posted NDY.  *Sorry, misread your post the first time.  A less talented team would have far more reason to acquire additional selections then a more talented one.*I think people are groping toward BAP to explain things, and that's fine.  They weren't my BAP, but that's the beauty of the BAP argument I guess.  In a draft that included almost 30 trades (I think), the only one we involved ourselves in gave up a future pick and a pick in the 2014 draft for one pick.  Going the wrong way imo.  I have my opinions on who we picked, but we probably won't know with any accuracy about these guys for several years.  What's becoming pretty well documented is that making more total picks over a period of time in NFL drafts garners better results then making fewer total picks.  Again, I hope this season's draft is an exception in that regard and not a pattern for how Licht will deal with our drafts going forward. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2630

      I hope we'll look back at this draft in 5 years and say it was a new guy feeling his way into the process.  Who you select is obviously a big part of the equation, almost as important (imo) is how well you acquire more chances to miss.  It doesn't seem to me coincidence that the front offices that routinely put together the best rosters in the NFL are mostly those who are the most active and most willing to move down/out of their picks.  Exchanging particular slots/players for a greater volume of selections.  In Licht's first opportunity to show some acumen in that area he failed wholly.  Worse, he mortgaged future selections for a pick in this draft.  That is a dangerous game to play as it puts significantly more pressure on he and his scouting staff to "hit".

      The Bucs were rumored to be trying to trade down from #7 and #38. We definitely could have been looking to trade down and acquire more draft picks, but just didn't get a good enough offer. You're making a pretty big assumption by saying Licht wasn't willing to move down and get more picks just because we didn't do it.Also:

      Licht officially put a “for sale’’ sign on Tampa Bay’s first-round pick, the seventh overall. Licht said the Bucs might be willing to trade down. “That’s definitely something we’d look into,’’ Licht said. “We’ve already reached out to teams. If our player isn’t there, we’d be open to conversations about moving back.’’

      http://espn.go.com/blog/tampa-bay-buccaneers/post/_/id/4285/gm-jason-licht-tampa-bay-buccaneers-willing-to-trade-down

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2847

      Has nothing to do with what I posted NDY.  I think people are groping toward BAP to explain things, and that's fine.  They weren't my BAP, but that's the beauty of the BAP argument I guess.  In a draft that included almost 30 trades (I think), the only one we involved ourselves in gave up a future pick and a pick in the 2014 draft for one pick.  Going the wrong way imo.  I have my opinions on who we picked, but we probably won't know with any accuracy about these guys for several years.  What's becoming pretty well documented is that making more total picks over a period of time in NFL drafts garners better results then making fewer total picks.  Again, I hope this season's draft is an exception in that regard and not a pattern for how Licht will deal with our drafts going forward.

      Agree. Trading down is a risk/reward thing. Where you are in the draft and available players at your landing point compared to your current position determine what it is versus players already on the roster. I think L&L saw an opportunity to upgrade the roster very quickly this season, and were not able to get sufficient value for trading down, according to Licht in PCs. Once we amass more talent, I expect more trading down from Licht, as players in the draft won’t generally be significantly better than what are already on the roster. Far less risk in trading down.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5954

      The Bucs were rumored to be trying to trade down from #7 and #38. We definitely could have been looking to trade down and acquire more draft picks, but just didn't get a good enough offer. You're making a pretty big assumption by saying Licht wasn't willing to move down and get more picks just because we didn't do it.Also:

      Licht officially put a “for sale’’ sign on Tampa Bay’s first-round pick, the seventh overall. Licht said the Bucs might be willing to trade down. “That’s definitely something we’d look into,’’ Licht said. “We’ve already reached out to teams. If our player isn’t there, we’d be open to conversations about moving back.’’

      http://espn.go.com/blog/tampa-bay-buccaneers/post/_/id/4285/gm-jason-licht-tampa-bay-buccaneers-willing-to-trade-down

      If we're stuck on "book" value, we are fail imo.  Book value is always a complete rip off for the team moving up.  I'm betting no one bothered to call our war room offering the 17th in this draft and a 5th next season to move up to 7.  Unless it's that kind of ridiculous, or I had solid gold where I was drafting, I would always take the deal.  It's my opinion that by dealing, and showing a willingness to do so, you also increase your chances of future moves.  My fear is that we are waiting for the "perfect deal".  That we don't want to have to explain why we took less then what's on that stupid little chart for our pick.  No matter why we didn't trade down/out, the fact remains we didn't.  Our only movement was in a direction that I consider the wrong one.  Again, hopefully that is an anomaly and not a pattern we will see repeated.On a side note, I don't believe anything that comes out of our front office.  Don't take this as an additional attack on them.  I see no reason for them to be honest and open with the media/public.  They have shown absolutely no proclivity to do so thus far.  Has anything they've put out for public consumption come to pass yet?  They seem quite willing to use their public statements as tools of manipulation in one way or another, and I'm totally fine with it.  I'm going to try to remember to not use their quotes to back up my arguments though. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2847

        LOL; this time of the season especially, no NFL front office should be taken too literally.  ;D Generally not lying, just not giving out all the facts…

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5954

      Agree. Trading down is a risk/reward thing. Where you are in the draft and available players at your landing point compared to your current position determine what it is versus players already on the roster. I think L&L saw an opportunity to upgrade the roster very quickly this season, and were not able to get sufficient value for trading down, according to Licht in PCs. Once we amass more talent, I expect more trading down from Licht, as players in the draft won't generally be significantly better than what are already on the roster. Far less risk in trading down.

      Which is a backward way of looking at the problem imo.  We have a lot of "open" roster positions.  Lots of places in our 53 man roster where we could upgrade and be a better team both now and into the future.  We could have made 13 selections in this draft and had a legitimate chance for every one of those guys making our opening day 53.  The 9ers have far fewer "open" roster positions.  How is it better for a team like the 9ers to acquire 10 picks in a draft?  The argument I would make is just the opposite.  A very talented team like the 9ers should be more willing to stand pat because they are only immediately interested in getting the best potential prospect, not a bunch of potential upgrades.  Even so, I agree that every team (even the very talented) should be looking to trade down and acquire picks at every opportunity. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5954

        LOL; this time of the season especially, no NFL front office should be taken too literally.  ;D Generally not lying, just not giving out all the facts...

      Agreed, but that's why I wouldn't use:  "See, our GM even said he was open to and tried to trade down and we didn't get a good enough offer." as the backbone of my argument.  He'll get another chance in 12 months.  I hope this time next year I'm not making the same bitchy posts about how we handled draft weekend strategically. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2847

          I see what you’re saying. A case in point for my argument is how dropsy-happy our receivers have been historically. That and penalties are the 2 killers when running a short passing game. By taking the 3 top “hands” players in the draft, we should dramatically improve in that area. That was a critical need for the success of Tedford’s offense. The other factor here is we have a brand new staff, who no doubt want to “become relevant again” in the NFL, to quote Lovie. And I believe him on that. A quick turnaround was very likely Lovie’s selling point for getting his job…    Once established, I expect L&L to get much more creative in their dealings!

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4755

      We got the top 2 receiving options in the draft at the WR and TE positions. Whats not to like? I also am starting to think that Sims is going to play a bigger role than expected. Get ready for ASJ VJax and Evans spreading the defense out and Sims in a single back set. He will thrive in that backfield IMO. I think Doug Martin is not going to be in our long term plans. He wont fit this offense with hos limited skill set.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 6677

      No one likes me here and I knows it.

      Don't worry.  S&B and I like you.

      yep.  I even made him a new sig.  It’s on the sig thread on the cove dude. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1845

      1. Mike Evans - Not only big, tall, and physical, he's got respectable speed, and finally, very good hands and a huge catching radius. Oh, and he'll be a factor in the run game, as he loves to get in his licks as a blocker. Eventual legit #1 receiver when Jackson retires.I generally don't like taking a WR this early, but this young man appears very grounded and has the total package, is very coachable and is a total team player. All the qualities of a future star.2. Austin Seferian-Jenkins - A surprise pick to me. This was a clear case of BAP over need, as we already have multiple experienced TEs on the roster. This gives us another big, tall receiving target with good hands and a huge catching radius. Only weakness is speed, but he's fast enough to be effective. And he is regarded as one of the better blocking TEs in this draft. Gotta watch his weight, but he's already vowed to stay at 260, which appears to be his best playing weight.3. Charles Sims - Another VERY surprise pick. Like many I'm sure, I was floored we hadn't taken a G! After hearing Lovie compare him to Matt Forte and Licht saying he's the best receiving RBin this draft, I calmed down some. I'm now thinking this is an insurance pick in case Doug Martin walks in 2 years when his contract is up. And TBH, Martin has looked awkward on swing passes,and hasn't shown much wiggle or change-of-speed in tight spaces, trying to accelerate thru traffic when he should be more patient. Martin is STILL a very good RB in my book, but Sims uponfurther review may prove in time to be a better ALL ROUND back, a la Matt Forte. Hope they BOTH stick.I suspect RBs in Tedford's offense MUST be good receivers and blockers (Sims IS, on both counts) as well as good runners. Another BAP Licht said in his PR he just couldn't pass up.4. Kadeem Edwards - At last a G! After sitting on Yankey thru the 4th round, the thought we might have someone else in mind did occur to me. May not have been BAP, but certainly a position of need.Of course I never heard of Edwards, but  he appears to be a big, tough guy who's done well in the classroom as well as in football. https://twitter.com/gregauman/status/465243725401034752It'll be interesting to see how he fares compared with Yankey, who was taken a few picks later by the Vikings...5. Kevin Pamphile - I only discovered this pick because I went back to see if Yankey had been taken, thinking we might double dip at G. To my surprise, I saw a SECOND Buc pick had been made in the 5th. I remembered his name from the board, and he appears to be an athletic guy who can play T or G. Licht says he'll be tried as a swing T.Essentially, we traded Zuttah and our 7th to get him.  6. Robert Herron - A short (5'9"), strong (18 BP reps, compared to Evans' 12), and speedy track guy seemingly built to play the slot WR. I'd say he's a project. All the physical tools are there; we will see if Andrew Hayes-Stoker can develop those tools.

      Mike Evans grounded? that is about the only part of your eval that I don't agree with. IMO, he seems "hot headish", and a bit immature, but definitely plays hard.  I hope he is able to control his "love of the game" so db's don't goad him into personal foul penalties that cost the Bucs plays/yardage.Otherwise, good post NDY

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