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    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3972

      https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-lincoln-project-facing-multiple?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxODkxOTUyOCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MzI0NzU3NjEsIl8iOiI4bFMxaiIsImlhdCI6MTYxMzM5Nzg0MCwiZXhwIjoxNjEzNDAxNDQwLCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMTI4NjYyIiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.sLer8NR15mhsoPOuqgB4jA7Z4NhaA2TMkvkZgXcH1is

      Is this another one of those times when Trump is ridiculed for years and then, when what he’s been saying turns out to be true “again” Fire and all those who think like him, pretend it never happened. Where are those lincoln project videos and threads you were so proud of now?

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3972

      What this sorry episode reveals above all else is that much of American liberalism, including its all-but-official arm in corporate media, replicated, in the name of combatting Trump, every unethical tactic, every deceitful method, and every toxic assault on basic decency that they insisted Trump singularly represented. They allied with the most amoral societal actors, venerated the most corrupt factions, and vouched for the sleaziest operatives in the name of uprooting amorality, corruption and sleaze. The claimed Trump acted without limits or respect for normalcy and truth while proudly relinquishing all boundaries, principles and constraints of truth in order to fight him.

      In doing so, they became everything they claimed they were fighting. And unlike Trump, who is now gone, these unholy alliances and ethic-free habits that define them will remain and fester forever. That is why when American liberals, including in the media, look in the mirror, what they see staring back is Rick Wilson and Steve Schmidt and John Weaver. That is the perfect reflection of what they have become, of who they now are.

      I recommend reading the whole thing but the ending pretty much sums it up.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      Is this supposed to mean something to me?

      The Lincoln Project was the enemy of my enemy… they made some great videos.

      A “study” found those videos weren’t effective.

      They paid themselves too much for the work.

      Did I miss something?

      You voted for Trump, the ultimate grifter… and you’re gonna bitch about Rick Wilson getting $65k.

      Dude you are puhhhhhhhhhthetic

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Sheesh fire you sure do take my opinions personally.

        Trump said these guys were losers and you all laughed and mocked him for it. Liberals held these people up, gave them great coverage to spin the “Republican revolt” conspiracy that you and Alice were so fond of for the last several years.

        Now…. crickets.

        We were talking about the Truth in another thread. Would you like to reexamine your opinion on that subject? Today’s truth cannot be the opposite of yesterdays in a free society that doesn’t manipulate it’s people. Where this happens it is always the result of propaganda and manipulation.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      BTW I clicked on the study and all it said was the ads weren’t as effective in battle ground states.

      Wow, quite the scandal… but wait, Biden won in a landslide.

      So…

      Something seemed to work.

      Plus let’s get real… this LP scandal was classic capitalism grifting…

      Comes with the territory

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      Chron-ish troll.

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        LOL an article written by an award winning and respected journalist is a “Chron-ish troll”?

        I know that many of you have started to hate this guy but he’s consistent. He’s been railing against much of the same stuff since W was in office.

        You don’t have to agree but a troll? Just hand in your PR credentials and get back to the kids table and I won’t tell your mom about this.

    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3878

      Yes, its too bad that the people who organized the Lincoln Project were crooks. What’s important to all of us of course is that they got the truth out there and were able to help defeat Trump. These guys were small timers compared to the mastermind of the attempted murder of our Democracy. Although it’s a shame that some of the money that should have gone to anti-Trump advertising got pocketed, I’m sure at this point you have to agree that by helping to stop Trump from getting another four years they did an immeasurable service to this country.

      So we can all thank them for their service as they head off to jail. You can guarantee that if the roles were reversed these guys would get a pardon and a medal of honor from Trump. But thank God we have a return to normalcy in the White House. These dudes will be going to jail where they belong.

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Jesus Roy.

        Did you read the article? Did you put any thought into any of it?

        How can you claim they got the “truth” out there when they are proved liars and manipulators. The point of the article was the extent to which certain elements have stooped to supposedly save us from the orange man.

        As Greenwald points out:

        And unlike Trump, who is now gone, these unholy alliances and ethic-free habits that define them will remain and fester forever.

        The fact that ethics have taken a back seat cannot actually be laid at Trump’s feet as you claim. That’s the problem with your thinking. It’s always, “whatever we had to do to get rid of Trump is fine” as if there is a reset button we can now hit. This loss of ethics cannot be put exclusively on Trump. But that is exactly what you won’t admit.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      *puts on Republican hat*

      They sold a product and people bought it.

      I thought the ads were quite convincing but I’m not a swing state Republican.

      However, if you think they didn’t help in Trump’s defeat, small or large, you’re just wrong.

      Jbear – you keep projecting with your accusations. The absurdity of calling “gotcha” on the Lincoln Project, is a knee-slapping HOOT.

      You wanna get under my skin, you’ll have to find something that is closer to the heart. You’ve done it before…I have faith you’ll figure it out.

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        I love when you do this… pull the, it’s capitalism card. But only when it suits you. It’s capitalism when a bunch of Anti Trumpers get together to do unethical and illegal shit to get rid of Trump at all costs.

        Defrauding donors is not capitalism. It’s inconceivable that anyone who wasn’t a brown shirt could even think such an absurd and insulting thing.

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6283

        Just debunking your “Capitialism is the messiah” crap… pointing out the inherent flaws in it shows the need for regulatory bodies.

        In the past you’ve said “no regulation” and I’ve said free market doesn’t exist (see GME).

    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3878

      JBear, because I watched the ads and there wasn’t anything untrue in them that I remember. It was all stuff that was common knowledge pretty much wasn’t it? I don’t remember watching the ads and saying to myself “Hmm I didn’t know that.” But its not OK that they stole money from it, which is why I said that if its true they should go to jail. It doesn’t nullify the ads which were all basically true from my memory. If you can find one that wasn’t then I’ll stand corrected.

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        I’d like to see an embarrassing “fact” about Trump that you would think was untrue until you absolutely had to admit it.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      @JBear

      What did Trump say that turn out to be true “again” ?

      “ Trump is ridiculed for years and then, when what he’s been saying turns out to be true “again” ”

      Look forward to your answer

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        He said these guys were losers… True

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      *jbear runs to Greenwald Twitter*

      “I’m not a Trump supporter but…”

    • OneTruthisBack

      Participant
      Post count: 1915

      pedophiles sticking up for pedovores

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6283

        You’re still here OT.

        How did you avoid arrest from the FBI?

    • Donkey_Hunter

      Participant
      Post count: 1706

      ^^^

      “tHe sToRm iS cOmIng…mArK mY wOrDs”

      Derp…

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      JBear ain’t gonna answer, especially after that OT post.

      Correction of prior post. JBear thread is a Chron-ish and OT-ish troll. Lol

    • OneTruthisBack

      Participant
      Post count: 1915

      anyone who says they “know” that these Lincoln Project people were demented kid eaters but loved them any way because they were the enemy of your enemy is a sick frkn pervert who should be sent of to the China organ harvesting camps. Why do you idiots hate Trump anyway? Trump did more for the citizens of this country than any other President in the history of the world…but I regress.

      All of you (Trump Haters) are either brainwashed or, more likely, are pedophile loving-God hating sick minded villains worthy of an early departure from this plane of existence.

    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3878

      Yeah we’re the ones who are brainwashed…. you know because we don’t realize that there are lizard people from outer space and child eaters and we hate God. We don’t realize that Trump was actually fighting a secret deep state and a secret guy named Q has all the inside scoop even though he’s always wrong. We’re the brainwashed ones.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      @JBear speaks

      “these Lincoln Project people were demented kid eaters”

      “All of you (Trump Haters) are either brainwashed or, more likely, are pedophile loving-God hating sick minded villains worthy of an early departure from this plane of existence.”

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      @JBear

      What did Trump say that turn out to be true “again” ?

      “ Trump is ridiculed for years and then, when what he’s been saying turns out to be true “again” ”

      Look forward to your answer

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        He said the Lincoln project founders were a bunch of losers. True

        Are you done yet? Am I going to have to think at all?

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      Lincoln Project were the winners though, right? Trump was the loser? You’re just a sire loser . . even though “you’re NOT a Trump supporter” (cough cough)

      Anyway, the point is: your guy, Trump, got his ass kicked, so if you need to salve that wound (like Grenwald) with a thread like this NOT ONLY does that:

      1) confirm your status as a “Trumper extraordinaire,” but it also

      2) shows just how much the loss hurt you . . just like Chron and OT (even though . . cough cough . . youre a Libertarian . . who just voted for Trump . . cough cough).

      The current problem at Lincoln Project has nothing to do with the November election loss by Trump. In fact, you raise that exact defense in an argument with DH, right? You defend your vote of Trump (yet again) by saying you voted in November and the insurrection was January?

      :-)

      Look, maybe give up the charade? You’re either trolling or you’re REPEATEDLY outing yourself as WORSE THAN loons like OT and Chron because you don’t even own your Trumpiness, you disclam it, even when its all over every post you create

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Greenwald has zero to do with Trump. He’s all about free speech and the media not doing it’s job anymore. You don’t care that the media doesn’t do it’s job anymore because you like what they’re saying. Mark my words, if this trend continues, there will come a time when you will not like what the media is spinning. You’ll know it’s not true and you’ll know there’s not a thing in the world you can do about it because it’s too late.

        All the other stuff… Jesus kid. Time to grow up.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      the board sucks, so I now see you responded. I wasnt trying to make you post the same thing twice

      Trump is now the only President twice impeached and in a world where no President has ever been convicted he had the highest bi-partisan number vote to do just that and, for obvious reasons, got a number of his own party tearing him to pieces for his UNDENIABLE role in an insurrection.

      If he wants to sit in mar Lago and throw stones at Lincoln project, let him do it. Only highlights the Tiny Penis Syndrome. if Grenwald wants to do the same (after saying much of what transpired was misplaced, wrong or a hoax) then let him do it too. Only proves his diminishing influence and his like role as a board member for Trumps Tiny Penis Club. As far as I know, no one every celebrated Lincoln Project as the model organization, cutting edge HR policies or any of that. They were “celebrated” for taking it to Trump and being part of a movement of GOP against Trump . . AND THEY WON.

      You and your ilk are out in the parking lot, after the game, long after the game, still crying about calls, rubbing each other.

      whatever works for ya

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Jesus Alice get over it already. Trump lost the election months ago. You planning on spending the next four years talking about Trump….?

        Oh yeah, of course you are.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      @JBear

      You seem to like Grenwald, but actually know little about him. You seem to defend everything he posts now because of his prior Pulitzer Prize. If the prior Pultizer prize (he as part of a team and I already pointed out how nuts a similar Pulitzer prize winner is today) equals accuracy now then why did he predict that Trump would lose AND claim that Russia was a Dem hoax BEFDORE trump was even elected (October 2016)?

      https://theintercept.com/2016/10/11/in-the-democratic-echo-chamber-inconvenient-truths-are-recast-as-putin-plots/

      “DONALD TRUMP, FOR reasons I’ve repeatedly pointed out, is an extremist, despicable, and dangerous candidate, and his almost-certain humiliating defeat is less than a month away. So I realize there is little appetite in certain circles for critiques of any of the tawdry and sometimes fraudulent journalistic claims and tactics being deployed to further that goal. In the face of an abusive, misogynistic, bigoted, scary, lawless authoritarian, what’s a little journalistic fraud or constant fearmongering about subversive Kremlin agents between friends if it helps to stop him?”

      he was OBVIOUSLY dead wrong about both of those things lol

      In fact, if you read the actual article he discuss Wikileaks AT LENGTH never making the connection between Wikileaks and Trump/Stone that we all know about today

      :-)

      he even throws in a little Clinton Benghazi hate . . which you would know about because you’re just . . err . . a . . um . . Libertarian . . like Grenwald . . and Paul . . and Massie

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Goddammit! Alice GTFO!

        What a dirty trick. I thought you died and here you are calling me a faux libertarian on some 12 year old kids avatar. What the heck is wrong with you anyway? You’re kids took your computer so it took you 2 months to learn how to post from your phone?

        Seriously.

        Why are you such a baby about Trump anyway? I swear to God I thought Karma was a twelve year old kid because thats what you sound like. Whaaa whaah whaaaaaaaH!

        “You should be sorry”

        “You lost”

        Why do you get soo upset when I post an article with a different viewpoint? The orange man bad stuff is mind numbingly moronic. And that you actually want to have this conversation with just you and Fire sitting around a campfire with your hands down each others pants all night. agggh It’s freaking boring for the rest of us.

        Slagg off Alice.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      The common thread with so many Trumpers (and Jbear because he’s . . uh . . well .. “not a Trumper”) is they are all seemingly taken in by hucksters peddling conspiracies. Hannity, Ingraham, Alex Jones, Carlson, Grenwald, Shapiro, Malkin etc.

      All people SELLING clicks. All proven wrong many times, on many topics, and some actually admitting they are INTENTIONAL CHARLATANS who should not be believed . . . but still treated as definitive sources evne though they are only playing to the pre-existing beliefs.

      This is precisely why 60+ court losses are ignored in favor of Trump’s BIG LIE

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        What does this have to do with the thread asshole!

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      So let’s recap:

      Jbear is asked to point out where Trump is right.

      He posts an article that doesn’t show him being right but rather how media got it “wrong”?

      Jbear thinks Trump handled COVID perfect (a standard Trumpism)

      Jbear “isn’t gonna waste his time” – a beta employed by Biggs all the time.

      Jbear is a clone of Greenwald. Lipstick on a pig.

      Lipstick = “Libertarian”
      Pig = MAGA

      It’s easy to see that jbear will just parrot Greenwald the next 4 years.

      Greenwald has his niche of complaining about media while also clamoring for free speech…

      So the contrarian point of view shocks no one…

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Handling covid “perfect” is an impossibility for anyone save the second coming of Jesus Christ. That should be obvious to anyone. The arguments were over whether we should shut everything down and to hell with the consequences or if we should let people make up their own minds and do what needed to be done to feed their families.

        There is no perfect as any child can see. Or I should say, anyone who isn’t a never Trumper should be able to see that. You guys are complete morons who can’t seem to make any logical decisions or behave rationally in any situation anymore. Trump carved out a home in your brain.

        And you still can’t admit anything. Andrew Cuomo is about to be impeached. Yet you mocked me every time I brought it up. People behaved irrationally in response to Trump but the fact that you all ran around with your hair on fire for 4 years does not make the consequences of that flailing about, Trump’s fault. That’s your fault. That’s Cuomo’s fault, Newsome’s fault, Alice’s fault.

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Great news Fire!

        Alice is back!

        You can stop thinking. I know it was starting to hurt.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      Greenwald retweeted this today

      so incredibly dishonest and despicable

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        You’re hypocrisy would be hilarious if it wasn’t so scary.

        This is exactly the bullshit you posted daily for 4 years.

        And with a straight face you’re going to pretend it’s perfectly normal to flip your standards on a dime when it suits you?

        As I said above, any child understands there was never any “perfect” handling of a pandemic. Don’t try to tell me that there wouldn’t even be a pandemic if Trump wasn’t President that’s so dishonest it’s criminal.

        Greenwald says this tongue in cheek to get to you. He just trolled you. And the logic is crystal clear. In a world where every American death is laid squarely at Trumps feet by you, you can’t shirk responsibility now that you’re in charge.

        Your only argument is that Joe has handled everything perfectly since taking office. Haha funny stuff.

        Greenwald is just being as big a dick as you all were.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      “Slagg off Alice.”



      @jBear
      mad

      not a thing about Trump’s loss, about the irrelevance of the recent Lincoln Project news, or about the lunacy of Grenwald

      DID

      NOT

      SEE

      THAT

      COMING

      lol

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Alice being a troll

        DID

        NOT

        SEE

        THAT

        COMING

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      calling you out (because you make it so easy BY OUTING YOURSELF)

      SAW

      THAT

      COMING

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        You’re a real clown. This was a good thread which you’ve come in and trolled into oblivion as always.

        A real piece of work.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      “This was a good thread”

      first post by @JBear

      “That is why when American liberals, including in the media, look in the mirror, what they see staring back is Rick Wilson and Steve Schmidt and John Weaver. That is the perfect reflection of what they have become, of who they now are.

      I recommend reading the whole thing but the ending pretty much sums it up.”

      LMAO, this thread wasn’t able to stand up to even basic scrutiny because its fiction . . like you

      maybe go cuddle with Chron?

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        What a clown.

        You quoted part of an article by a… forget award winning… forget acclaimed, we are talking world famous and respected journalist. This is not Bill O’Riely or Rush Limbaugh. This is a guy who is respected by all but the most partisan of creeps. A year ago you wouldn’t have had nearly as much negative to say about him now you can barely get out a descriptor without saying the word Crazy, insane or lunatic. It marks you not me. When did Glen Greenwald go completely nuts? As soon as he started saying shit that made you mad?

        A team you say!

        WHAT

        A

        DOUCHE

        You’re just saying anything you can think to discredit the guy. I’m not the one in the wrong here. If I can’t post a link to an article by this guy without you acting like it’s not even worth legitimate discussion.

        I have news for you Alice. You’ve crossed the bounds of message board etiquette by an ocean. The pomposity, the arrogance is outrageous. You. a message board troll of the highest order…. a nobody if ever there was one in this world behaving as if you are the better man. That a man of his caliber is “Stoopid” and not worth discussing on this lowly, cobweb covered mousehole of the internet, is ridiculous on a level that makes you not only deserving of scorn but of outright humiliation and embarrassment.

        This place was chugging along just fine without your presence. Do everyone a favor and remove yourself once and for all.

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1064

      I believe the point being made originally is that persons who shall remain nameless were eager to use any means necessary and at their disposal to denigrate Trump. No matter the root or source. They ignored the smell because it fit the narrative.

      Additionally those who spent night and day pummeling Trump over Covid, regardless if what they were saying was actually true or not, are now more interested in Biden putting a fresh log on the fire to make himself nice and cosy. All together now, heavy sigh! Aaaaaah! All the while, nothing has changed with Covid.

      But hey, Trump lost. So all is fine in the CNN et al household.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      Spartan, see other thread response to “from what I read”

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Get the fuck outa here.

      • spartan

        Participant
        Post count: 1064

        So apart from the shit you pluck out of your ass, what are your sources of information?

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3972

      and Greenwald, who was working on a book about how the media control political discourse, while also writing his column for The Guardian, had more pressing things to do.

      This was in 2012 you worthless POS. GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY THREAD.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      Lol

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Worthless, piece of human garbage…. lol

        This is like proving that we breathe air and not water. Thanks for trolling the shit out of everything you disgusting slimeball.

        I have to prove to YOU that Glen Greenwald is not an insane Qanon person? Fuck off

        Early one morning last December, Glenn Greenwald opened his laptop, scanned through his e-mail, and made a decision that almost cost him the story of his life. A columnist and blogger with a large and devoted following, Greenwald receives hundreds of e-mails every day, many from readers who claim to have “great stuff.” Occasionally these claims turn out to be credible; most of the time they’re cranks. There are some that seem promising but also require serious vetting. This takes time, and Greenwald, who starts each morning deluged with messages, has almost none. “My inbox is the enemy,” he told me recently.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      JBear requests a safe space, a zone free from any alternate views

      Because he is all about free speech

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        You are free to make an ass of yourself… go right ahead.

        And so it was that on December 1st, 2012, Greenwald received a note from a person asking for his public encryption, or PGP, key so he could send him an e-mail securely. Greenwald didn’t have one, which he now acknowledges was fairly inexcusable given that he wrote almost daily about national-security issues, and had likely been on the government’s radar for some time over his vocal support of Bradley Manning and WikiLeaks. “I didn’t really know what PGP was,” he admits. “I had no idea how to install it or how to use it.” It seemed time-consuming and complicated, and Greenwald, who was working on a book about how the media control political discourse, while also writing his column for The Guardian, had more pressing things to do.

        GET THE EEEEEEFFFFFFF OUT!

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      @JBear

      You’re illustrating why people call you and other Trumper‘s fascists. US spas high minded constitutionalism but really you only support your own view of the constitution. Tell Trump to shut up and it is a violation of free speech, but you telling somebody else to shut up is not a violation of free speech

      Federal authority is fine when it’s being used to keep the black folk down but not when it’s being used for the pandemic

      When that mindset intersects with 140 congressional GOP and 40 some odd senators blindly adhering to that view the country is in real trouble. Oh wait, that’s life today. Weird huh?

      It’s almost as if I’ve read this predictions somewhere?

      Well, at least thank God that somebody wants to stop the socialists. I mean not Biden but the socialist to control him. Like Bernie and AOC

      :-)

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        You are one hell of a troll bud. You say whatever you want troll.

        It’s your right to say or think ignorant shit. I Have no problem with that. I have a problem with you being a pompous ass who thinks Glen Greenwald is a Trumper.

        “It felt Anonymous-ish to me,” Greenwald says. “It was this cryptic ‘I and others have things you would be interested in. . . .’ He never sent me neon lights – it was much more ambiguous than that.”

        So he ignored the note. Soon after, the source sent Greenwald a step-by-step tutorial on encryption. Then he sent him a video Greenwald describes as “Encryption for Journalists,” which “walked me through the process like I was a complete idiot.”

        And yet, Greenwald still didn’t bother learning security protocols. “The more he sent me, the more difficult it seemed,” he says. “I mean, now I had to watch a fucking video . . . ?” Greenwald still had no idea who the source was, nor what he wanted to say. “It was this Catch-22: Unless he tells me something motivating, I’m not going to drop what I’m doing, and from his side, unless I drop what I’m doing and get PGP, he can’t tell me anything.”

        The dance went on for a month. Finally, after trying and failing to get Greenwald’s attention, the source gave up.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      “I am going to start calling you Alice Antifa”

      You mean when you calm down??

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Start your own thread if you want to talk to somebody. I’m done with you. I’m laughing my ass off right now. JUst GET OUT.

        Greenwald went back to his book and his column, publishing, among other things, scathing attacks on the Obama administration’s Guantánamo and drone policies. It would take until May, six months after the anonymous stranger reached out, before Greenwald would hear from him again, through a friend, the documentarian Laura Poitras, whom the source had contacted, suggesting she and Greenwald form a partnership. In June, the three would meet face to face, in a Hong Kong hotel room, where Edward Snowden, the mysterious source, would hand over many thousands of top-secret documents: a mother lode laying bare the architecture of the national-security state. It was the “most serious compromise of classified information in the history of the U.S. intelligence community,” as former CIA deputy director Michael Morell said, exposing the seemingly limitless reach of the National Security Agency, and sparking a global debate on the use of surveillance – ostensibly to fight terrorism – versus the individual right to privacy. And its disclosure was also a triumph for Greenwald’s unique brand of journalism.

        Greenwald is a former litigator whose messianic defense of civil liberties has made him a hero of left-libertarian circles, though he has alienated elites across the political spectrum. Famously combative, he “lives to piss people off,” as one colleague says. And in the past eight years he has done an excellent job: taking on Presidents Bush and Obama, Congress, the Democratic Party, the Tea Party, the Republicans, the “liberal establishment” and, notably, the mainstream media, which he accuses – often while being interviewed by those same mainstream, liberal-establishment journalists – of cozying up to power. “I crave the hatred of those people,” Greenwald says about the small, somewhat incestuous community of Beltway pundits, government officials, think-tank experts and other opinion-makers he targets routinely. “If you’re not provoking that reaction in people, you’re not provoking or challenging anyone, which means you’re pointless.”

        This perspective has earned Greenwald tremendous support, especially among young, idealistic readers hungry for an uncompromised voice. “There are few writers out there who are as passionate about communicating uncomfortable truths,” Snowden, who was one of Greenwald’s longtime readers, tells me in an e-mail. “Glenn tells the truth no matter the cost, and that matters.”

        The same, of course, could be said of Snowden, who, from the moment he revealed himself as the source of the leaks, has baffled the mainstream critics who’ve tried to make sense of him. “The founders did not create the United States so that some solitary 29-year-old could make unilateral decisions about what should be exposed,” wrote New York Times columnist David Brooks, who held up Snowden as one of “an apparently growing share of young men in their 20s who are living technological existences in the fuzzy land between their childhood institutions and adult family commitments.”

        To the likes of Brooks, Snowden was a disconcerting mystery; Glenn Greenwald, though, got him right away. “He had no power, no prestige, he grew up in a lower-middle-class family, totally obscure, totally ordinary,” Greenwald says. “He didn’t even have a high school diploma. But he was going to change the world – and I knew that.” And, Greenwald also believed, so would he. “In all kinds of ways, my whole life has been in preparation for this moment,” he says.

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3972

      For a man living in the middle of a John le Carré novel, Greenwald has a pretty good life. Based in Brazil since 2005, he lives about 10 minutes from the beach in the hills above Rio de Janeiro, in an airy, four-bedroom wood-and-glass house that backs directly into the jungle. There are monkeys, birds and a small waterfall, and with its sparse furnishing, the place has the feel of a treehouse. It also smells distinctly of dog – of which there are 10, rescued by Greenwald and his partner, David Miranda, whom Greenwald calls the “dog whisperer” for his Cesar Millan-like command over the pack. The dogs, which occupy every imaginable space there is, provide an ever-present backdrop to the couple’s domesticity, following Greenwald and Miranda from room to room and, from time to time, breaking into exultant barks for no real reason (other than maybe just the fact that they live in paradise).

      Contrary to his confrontational persona, Greenwald is actually quite sweet in person, apologizing for his car, a somewhat beat-up, doggy-smelling, red Kia with tennis clothes tossed in the back, and a Pink CD case on the dashboard that Greenwald, 46, is quick to explain belongs to Miranda, who is 28. “I still listen to all the stuff I liked in high school – Elton John, Queen,” he says, shrugging, and then immediately wonders if it’s weird that “music just never spoke to me all that much.”

      Politics, on the other hand, had a powerful hold on him from an early age. Originally from Queens, his family settled in South Florida, in the bland, cookie-cutter enclave of Lauderdale Lakes, then inhabited largely by ethnic, working-class families and wealthier Jewish retirees. The oldest of two, Greenwald was raised in a small house on the low-rent side of town, where his mother, “a typically 1960s-1970s housewife who married young and never went to college,” as he says, ended up supporting her sons by working as a cashier at McDonald’s, among other jobs.

      Greenwald’s childhood role model was his paternal grandfather, Louis “L.L.” Greenwald, a local city councilman, and “sort of this standard 1930s Jewish socialist type,” who crusaded on behalf of the poor against the voracious “condo bosses” who controlled the city. In high school, Greenwald ran a quixotic campaign for a city-council seat, which he lost, but not before scoring a “moral victory” by simply challenging his entrenched opponents. “The most important thing my grandfather taught me was that the most noble way to use your skills, intellect and energy is to defend the marginalized against those with the greatest power – and that the resulting animosity from those in power is a badge of honor.”

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3972

      This was useful advice for a gay teen growing up in the early 1980s, during the advent of AIDS, when “being gay was thought of, genuinely, as a disease, and so you just felt this condemnation and alienation and denunciation.”

      Of course, all gay teens deal with their sexuality in different ways. “One is to internalize the judgment and say, ‘Oh, my God, I’m this horrible, sick, defective person’ – which is why a lot of gay teens commit suicide,” says Greenwald. Another, he says, is to escape the judgment entirely by creating an alternate world – “which is where a lot of gay creativity comes from because this world doesn’t want you.” Greenwald chose a third path. “I decided to wage war against this system and institutional authority that had tried to reject and condemn me,” he says. “It was like, ‘Go fuck yourselves. Instead of having you judge me, I’m going to judge you, because I don’t accept the fact that you’re even in a position to cast judgments upon me.’”

      Wow what a Trumper. How dare this guy have an opinion as offensive as that the liberal media is manipulating the public. I mean… how dare he.

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3972

      This began a lifelong struggle against authoritative structures, beginning with his teachers, with whom he engaged in epic battles over “unjust rules,” as Greenwald puts it. “Glenn was this supersmart, extremely obnoxious, eccentric kid, and depending on your sense of humor, you either loved him or hated him,” recalls his friend Norman Fleisher. “He was probably the smartest kid in the school, but it’s kind of a miracle that he graduated.”

      Greenwald’s contrarian nature made him a star on the debate team, where he ran circles around his opponents and became a state champion. He enrolled at George Washington University in 1985, and spent so much time debating that it took him five years to graduate. After achieving a near-perfect score on his LSATs, he enrolled at the NYU School of Law, where, as a budding gay activist, he decided to “test the authenticity” of NYU’s liberal reputation by leading what became a successful campaign to ban Colorado firms from recruiting on campus after the state’s voters passed an amendment to overturn existing anti-discrimination laws

      I just can’t even believe what a trumper this guy is… it’s crazy. He’s gone nuts!

      GET OUT

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3972

      After graduation, he accepted a job in the litigation department of Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz, called “America’s most grueling law firm,” which represented blue-chip clients like Bank of America, JPMorgan and AT&T. In his first year, Greenwald made over $200,000 – more money than he’d ever seen in his life. But he found the world of corporate law “dull and soul-draining,” he says. “I could not thrive or even function in a controlling institution like that. There’s a huge dichotomy between people who grow up with alienation, which, for me, was invaluable, and people who grow up so completely privileged that it breeds this complacency and lack of desire to question or challenge or do anything significant. Those are the types of people who become partners at the corporate law firms.”

      In early 1996, the 28-year-old Greenwald, deciding he’d rather subvert the powerful than defend their interests in court, left Wachtell Lipton and opened his own practice. Consistently underestimated by big firms, he reached successful outcomes in case after case – often after deluging the opposition with motions and hundreds of pages of depositions – and insisted that his small staff wear suits, even while sitting around the office, to impose a sort of corporate discipline on a practice focused primarily on constitutional law and civil-liberties cases. He spent five years defending the First Amendment rights of neo-Nazis. It was one of Greenwald’s prouder accomplishments as an attorney. “To me, it’s a heroic attribute to be so committed to a principle that you apply it not when it’s easy,” he says, “not when it supports your position, not when it protects people you like, but when it defends and protects people that you hate.”

      How dare this guy have a weird opinion! Total Trumper!

      GO AWAY

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3972

      But law, even in its purest, most civil-liberties-oriented variety, was an ultimately frustrating endeavor, full of “unjust rules” and even fewer judicious outcomes. More interesting, particularly after 9/11, were the egalitarian conversations that were occurring online. Greenwald discovered this world in the mid-1990s when, bored at work, he’d begun cruising the CompuServe message boards, including Town Hall, a conservative forum created by the Heritage Foundation and the National Review. Instantly seduced by the chance to debate pro-lifers and other social conservatives, Greenwald soon began spending hours in heated arguments with disembodied strangers. He even, to his surprise, became friends with one or two. The Internet, he realized, was perhaps the only place where rules simply didn’t apply. “I believe in the clash of ideas,” he says, “and mine were being meaningfully challenged.”

      These free-form debates were occurring in the virtual world at precisely the same time they were disappearing from the general discourse, submerged, as Greenwald says, in the wave of “nationalism and jingoism” that followed 9/11. Greenwald first began to realize how much things had changed in the political culture after the arrest of Al Qaeda “dirty bomber” José Padilla. “The idea that an American citizen could be arrested on U.S. soil, and then imprisoned for years, not charged, and delayed access to a lawyer, that always seemed like one line that couldn’t be crossed,” Greenwald says. “It was more than the fact that it was being done – it was the fact that nobody was questioning it. That was a ‘What the fuck is going on in the United States?’ moment for me.”

      Oh the irony….. This is like the guy who, drunk and trying to impress a girl decides to wave a gun around and shoots himself in the face. Thank you sooooo much Alice for coming back here for my entertainment.

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3972

      In the winter of 2005, Greenwald, seeking to transition away from practicing law, went to Brazil. On his second day of what was a planned seven-week vacation in Rio, he met Miranda, a handsome 19-year-old Brazilian who was playing beach volleyball not far from Greenwald’s towel. The two have been inseparable ever since. “When you come to Rio as a gay man, the last thing you’re looking for is a monogamous relationship,” Greenwald says. “But, you know, you can’t control love.”

      Within a year, Greenwald had decided to relocate to Brazil, where, unable to practice law, he tried his hand at political blogging. Greenwald’s first week as a blogger, in October 2005, coincided with the indictment of Scooter Libby in the Valerie Plame leak case. Greenwald wrote a long post meticulously deconstructing the conservative argument against Libby’s indictment from a legal standpoint, which The New Republic linked to, driving thousands of readers to his site, Unclaimed Territory. Greenwald soon turned his attention to the explosive revelation that the NSA was spying on Americans under a secret, “warrantless wiretapping” program authorized by the Bush administration.

      The program was exposed in a December 16th, 2005, article in The New York Times written by investigative reporters James Risen and Eric Lichtblau. But the Times, under pressure from the Bush administration and from Bush himself, had sat on the piece for more than a year. The paper finally published the story 13 months after reporting it, and a year after Bush was re-elected. “It was as disgraceful as anything the Times has ever done in terms of betraying what they’re supposed to be as a journalistic institution,” Greenwald says. “After that, I decided that I needed to sort out what was actually true, and what wasn’t.”

      Sounds totally Trumpy.

      Have I said go away…. GO AWAY.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      Headline:

      Faux Libertarian Goes Full Tilt

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Are you seriously going to defend a guy/gurl who says he/she is a Republican, I guess a lot like the Lincoln Project guys are Republicans, and thinks posting an article by Glen Greenwald for discussion is a fucking Troll.

        You and I have had our issues but your encouragement of this whatever it is… he/she/it is repulsive. This place was way better when it was gone and you’re going to come in here and defend his ridiculous trolling?

        I can’t post an article? Even you’d never be that pompous. Seriously Fire it’s time for this whatever it is to get out of here. Enough is enough. Trolling is not discourse.

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6283

        Jbear I didn’t read your back and forth + copy/paste articles… too long.

        Post away

        Greenwald is def your guy. I have no issue with his agenda, because this is capitalism… he’s got a brand he is selling and he tries his best to be honest.

        But he has an agenda, and to think otherwise is absurd.

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Everyone has an agenda fire. That doesn’t mean his opinion is irrelevant. I appreciate that you disagree with his take even when you don’t get into the reasons, but I don’t think you would even claim it’s trolling or that the guy is crazy because you don’t like what he’s saying.

        like I said, we’ve had our differences.

    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3878

      Your past beliefs don’t disqualify you from going full Trump. Ted Cruz, Rand Paul. I’m sure many others.

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        I suppose not but you misunderstand Rand Paul completely. His beliefs are the same as always.

        But if you’re trying to say Greenwald? Please stop. I posted the article from 2013. He was

        “working on a book about how the media control political discourse,”

        That is directly from the article. In 2012… Take an hour and do a little research. He’s a contrarian. He likes to go against the grain and he gets riled up when people get complacent about civil liberty. When too many people start saying things that aren’t facts are facts he’s sure to turn up.

        The left is way to sure of its moral superiority right now.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      “You mean when you calm down?”

      This could take a while

      Lol

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      This quite by Fire hits the nail on the head as it is precisely the common malady of Trumpism, not realizing that people are selling a point of view ie trying to attract followers by playing to their pre existing beliefs:

      “ he’s got a brand he is selling and he tries his best to be honest.

      But he has an agenda, and to think otherwise is absurd. “

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      It isn’t the left with moral superiority…

      It’s common sense shared by the center left/right.

      Rand Paul is a full-fledged Trumplican. How you don’t see that is beyond me…

      Instead of saying garbage like “media is telling you what to think” maybe ponder this:

      Media sees what we see?

      After all, media=people

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Pfffffft!

        I don’t know why it was so difficult for you to accept a similar argument when I was telling you that corporations are made up of people too.

        The fact that the media is made up of people only means that those people bring their biases into the reporting. When dealing with a corporation, biases don’t matter much so long as the people involved have a moral code. This is because corporations purpose is to make money. They can/should do whatever they need to do to achieve that end so long as it doesn’t violate any societal moral standards. Media is completely different. It’s not about poisoning people though immoral business practices, it’s about leading people to the right conclusions… which is going to appear moral to anyone with a left leaning mindset. For their own good.

        You’re talking about a lot of stuff here but what about the actual topic? Is there any responsibility for Democrats or liberals to bear regarding their support of these, very immoral men? And I’m asking so don’t let Alice lead you around like he always used to.

        Like it’s offensive for you to have to think about it or something. It’s why it’s so important that I, Glen Greenwald, Rand paul, whoever, be lumped into the Trumper group…. so nobody has to think about anything.

      • spartan

        Participant
        Post count: 1064

        So how would you categorize the media coverage of Cuomo this week compared to how they covered Trump?

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        You basically have to go to right wing sources to hear about it at all. Those right wing sources although discounted by liberals are actually doing a decent job of reporting on facts. Quoting statements of NY Democrats who are actually discussing publicly how wrong Cuomo’s actions were. A NY Democrat already trying to remove Cuomo’s emergency powers to combat Covid.

        Unfortunately, Roy, Fire and the rest of the liberals won’t hear much about it.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      Most delusional post of the decade?

      “ you misunderstand Rand Paul completely. His beliefs are the same as always.”

      Lol

      His home state Courier-Journal

      “ How Rand Paul went from calling Donald Trump an ‘orange windbag’ to being a devout disciple”



      @JBear
      , maybe call it a night? Or, a season? Come back in 2024? Maybe as a Libertarian?

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Dishonest, manipulative, partisan, liar.

        In a thread where you call me a troll for daring to post an article by a respected journalist, you post a quote from an attack piece as proof that I’m delusional.

        “Well this guy from some news paper in KY says you’re dumb.” Thanks for playing moron.

        I could not make this up if I tried. The arrogance… the otherworldly self delusion that you employ on yourself is just shocking.

        I’m not inviting you to come back in 2024, I’m asking you to find somewhere else to troll. I’m not the only person sick of your bs.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      Jbear, you said Greenwald doesn’t troll? Then what is this?

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        A crying emoji? Greenwald is an interesting guy who likes to buck the trend. There is no question that he enjoys being irritating. That said, writing a legitimate article to annoy some does not make a troll. A troll is what Alice does all while pretending to be innocent. Plus all the lying.

        Here is a short quote from the article I posted above that gives insight. Remember this article is from 2013.

        And in the past eight years he has done an excellent job: taking on Presidents Bush and Obama, Congress, the Democratic Party, the Tea Party, the Republicans, the “liberal establishment” and, notably, the mainstream media, which he accuses – often while being interviewed by those same mainstream, liberal-establishment journalists – of cozying up to power. “I crave the hatred of those people,” Greenwald says about the small, somewhat incestuous community of Beltway pundits, government officials, think-tank experts and other opinion-makers he targets routinely. “If you’re not provoking that reaction in people, you’re not provoking or challenging anyone, which means you’re pointless.”

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      I honestly don’t even know the main point of this thread anymore… to show that Greenwald hates the Lincoln Project for their role in Trump’s ass-whooping… or lack thereof…

      You don’t see the irony in pointing out a small-scale grift when you voted for the biggest grifter of all-time?

    • Charles

      Participant
      Post count: 323

      And Trump still lost. Ya freaking loser trolls.

      BUWAHAHAHAHAHA

      Trump lost. It’s over and now he is killing the Republican party.

      He killed the GOP.

      I love it.

      I can’t wait for all these old racist trumpers to DIE off. Good times.

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Must be one of Alice’s alt accounts. Sounds just like her.

    • Donkey_Hunter

      Participant
      Post count: 1706

      @onetruthisback wrote:

      Trump did more for the citizens of this country than any other President in the history of the world…but I regress.

      Oh…we know you have, you dumb simp incel.

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6283

        Lmao I love that you wade through the nonsense to call that moron out and tune out the rest.

        Respect

      • Donkey_Hunter

        Participant
        Post count: 1706

        I try.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      More trolling, gaslighting, and agenda setting from Greenwald.

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Fire take a step back and think about this. You really think this is trolling? Please explain more because it sounds like you’re against dissent. Part of what Greenwald is saying is that the media is cozying up to power. That when they like who’s in charge they write articles about him putting a log on the fire and going to bed early. Do you really want to live in a world where its out of bounds to criticize power?

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6283

        I’d say this one is less trolling and more gaslighting. The post above with the emojis is trolling. You can try and tap dance along that all you like…

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Add to that how you felt about media criticisms of Trump. Those were ok? I mean honestly some of them were ok I only took issue when it goes completely bonkers.

        I’m willing to try to understand that much of the criticism for Trump was warranted or at least not a troll.

        You can’t say this is a troll after four years of Trump.

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6283

        I could argue that Trump’s criticism was actually less than it should have been… especially as Fox and the alt-right news lied and created so much disinformation that lead to the capitol riots.

        You keep playing this “Trump was the victim” bullshit card when he got arguable LESS scrutiny than he deserved.

        That’s how insurmountably bad he was

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Meanwhile Uncle Joe takes another nap by the fire.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      Biden, who JBear claimed was under socialist control, is blamed by JBear’s guy when he rejects the “socialists’” plan.

      lol

      and JBear follows it up with child-like flawed logic:

      “You can’t say this is a troll after four years of Trump.”

      So anything Grenwald does now cannot be a troll because Trump was previously trolled?

      LMAO. Get to your safe space and suck on Chron’s teet.

      JBear, your tolling has gone full un 3rd grade.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      Greenwald getting clowned on Twitter for his shit-stain sensationalism and agenda setting angle

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      It’s funny reading Greenwald and seeing the EXACT same language and parroted talking points made by jbear.

      Then jbear has the audacity to say that I’m brainwashed by media.

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        The fact that Greenwald often thinks a lot like I do might have something to do the fact that he’s right.

      • FireLicht2020

        Participant
        Post count: 6283

        “I guess I maybe sorta kinda undervalued the white nationalism movement”.

        Oopsie!

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      Those grifters nail it again!

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        Meanwhile, Uncle Joe puts another log on the fire before heading back to his comfy chair.

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      JavaBear

      you have the same basic “sleepy Joe” nonsense across three of four threads and three or four different topics?

      LMAO

      • jbear

        Participant
        Post count: 3972

        So what? I’m just saying, Joe likes to put a log on the fire and occasionally frolic with his two dogs “champ” and “major”… that is when he isn’t beating his Granddaughter Naomi at a friendly game of Mario cart…. all that of course between naps and before bedtime at 6pm.

        What’s wrong with that?

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      He’s so sleepy that he got the most votes ever by a presidential candidate.

      Imagine how many votes he’d get if he got 2 hours of sleep every day like Trump; arguing with Kathy Griffin at 3am on Twitter while shitting out pharma-brick-turds!

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      “He’s so sleepy that he got the most votes ever by a presidential candidate”

      Trump supporters like Jbear who use that silly taunt ^^^ are only HIGHLIGHTING that their dream guy, Trump, not only lost to a supposedly addled candidate, but actually lost to him in an EPIC fashion. Trump marshaled every GOP vote he could, history setting number, and STILL lost to “Sleepy Joe” by MILLIONS of votes AND even lost former GOP stronghold states

      SUCH WAS THE SUBSTANTIAL REJECTION OF THEIR GUY TRUMP and his racist, misogynistic hate-spewing ways

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      Trump said that his win over Clinton was a “landslide”

      using the same standard, Sleepy Joe” absolutely obliterated Trump in a stunning Death Star fashion (pin intended)

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      It’s like making fun of the Lions after losing to them by 40 points.

      Well yeah they Lions suck, so what does that make you?

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3972

      Four posts in a row about how Joe got the most votes.

      I never said one thing about the election and I mean in months and months. All I said was; Joe likes a good nap which is apparently true. I’m still confused why that hurts the feelings of a Republican who follows Claire McCaskill’s twitter feed.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      Lol… because the sleepy Joe narrative is/was a CAMPAIGN SLOGAN that Trump’s camp came up with…

      You aren’t this dumb (maybe)

    • Stagger Lee

      Participant
      Post count: 2830

      May be too obvious a point but the same people who say Sleepy Joe because of his age (78?) support “Trump 2024” … when Trump will be how old?

      78?

      Maybe I am off on the ages, but man this is why so many of these convos are total bs just people whose feeling are hurt grasping for a weapon but to use in only one direction lol

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6283

      He will be 80 I believe… 2 years younger than Badass Biden

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