I cannot express this enough. The amount of pressure he generates, his ability to track runners, his ability to drop in zone…they are irreplaceable and his loss will drastically hurt this defense.
The Bucs need to understand what they have, and get that man onboard. Licht has to manipulate the cap in an effort to resign this catalyst.
And LaVonte David needs to be a part as well. Suh will be a big loss but his absence can be dealt with a lot easier than losing those two obviously. Suh is a strong strong man, but he might be the guy who gets trimmed.
What are the odds that Licht knows Shaq is an elite pass rusher that needs to be retained somehow? That has to be priority number 1!
Whos paying him 20-25 mil a year? Maybe 2 or 3 teams can even afford that, & they wont make the playoffs even.
I think he signs with tampa 3-4 years 16-18 mil a year range.
Once brady restructures that’ll free up 14-16 mil this year alone.
If he leaves so be it. He isnt worth 20+ mil.
Again hes solid, near if not elite, but much different player without vea on the field.
An edge @32 could replace him. Wont necessary match his #s obviously, but shaq isnt some generational talent. Theres a reason he didnt start on Denver. Plus he’s already 28. More then 4 years would be a mistake.
I like Barnett but the dude is injured quite a bit. I also see the Eagles extending him to lower the cap hit. If not, then yeah I would love to sign him at a reasonable price. He has potential but to say he will easily replace Shaq is a stretch as well.
Getting Barnett at $7-$8 mil and drafting an edge rusher in the 1st or 2nd would be a solid plan. But Barnett has to become available first.
The Offseason FA Priority List for me is as follows:
I love Godwin, he’s been great and he’s a fantastic WR but we need to do what will help us most to get another SB THIS year, and that’s keeping this defense together.
Too many of you guys are worried about the future, because that’s ALL we’ve ever had to do for 15 years.. what about our draft picks? What about the cap space? That’s all out the window, we have the GOAT he’s probably only going to play for one more year, DO WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN ANOTHER SUPERBOWL, not what it takes to be a 7-9 team after he’s gone.
The honest truth is that while it’d be great to keep him, he’s not vital to the offense. What we saw from our offense from the Bye week onward was a whole hell of a lot of 2TE sets. There will be plenty of receivers available in FA who we can sign for a 1 year $4-5 million range ala Breshad Perriman who will round out our receiver room with Mike, Scooter and TJ. If that guy is AB, it would be awesome.
I honestly think there’s a way that we can keep everybody if we shuffle some money around, that’d be my preference… mortgage the future like the Saints did for another run.
I agree that Shaq should be the top priority, but I would move Godwin ahead of Lavonte. Lavonte is now 31 years old and going into his 10th season. Don’t be surprised if they draft Mizzou LB Nick Bolton at 32 to groom as his replacement.
As for Shaq, I agree with the consensus that drafting an edge rusher at 32 to replace him if he leaves via FA will also be an option.
Godwin should be easy to bring back if the price can be reasonable for both. And based on his interviews, he seems like a reasonable guy who would give the Bucs a hometown discount. Plus his smokin’ hot fiancee loves it here.
AB, Suh, and Gronk should be easy to retain on cap friendly deals. Especially AB and Gronk because AB knows no one else will touch him and Gronk will only play with TB12.
I am ALL for drafting DL/EDGE at 32, agreed with you 100%.
Even if we retain Shaq, that’s a position we should be looking to add depth/rotational starters with upside early in the draft.
Another monster DT with some strength to replace Suh…or an EDGE player who can bend. I was happy with Nelson’s progression last season, he earned his snaps as a gap filler with some length and strength… but we need someone with Shaq’s burst and quickness off the snap, and his ability to bend in half. Supposedly half the board thinks he’s a bum, but I digress.
I do not think an inside backer taken at 32 overall can come in and play in this defense with the processing speed and closing speed which Lavonte shows even at 31 years old.
David and White are the heart of this defense, and while White’s made the splash players, David’s done the dirty work and mentored the kid. I fucking LOVE seeing David coach White up, love how competitive they are with each other, trash talking each other like brothers.
I think Godwin’s gotta be looking at Diggs contract as what’s realistic. 4-5 years @ $14-15 million is probably what he’s worth. CG’ woman is a certified babe. She looks like she could clench her butt cheeks and rip your dick off, but in a good way.
I’m less certain on AB, I don’t see him coming back for cheap… he drives way too many supercars to take home town discounts. If he’s in for another 1 year deal at $5 million, sure? Could another team give him the term? Keep all these guys on 1 year deals.
Gronk will definitely be back, and if Lenny doesn’t want to come back for cheap I really like the idea of Marlon Mack, Bucman brought him up.. LOVE that.. or James White AND Adrian Peterson to replace Lenny and Shady.
If anyone thinks that Shaq is replaceable by any of the free agents…they are insane.
And for the guy who said he couldn’t crack the starting lineup in Denver…I have to tell you about their linebacker situation? Don’t be such a noob.
Shaq has elite pressure numbers, his coverage is decent, and his sack totals are great. You cannot replace that. His presence in that lineup is vital, and without him, the defense is going to be alright, but it won’t be nearly as effective at generating pass rush, which is job 1.
Brady needs a good defense to back him up.
They need to keep Shaq and David, and maybe fiddle with the salaries (convert to bonus? Depends on if the Glazers want to give that money away in a block payment, and that’s a big IF…) and try to retain Godwin, and Gronk (his blocking was supreme, possibly why Smith came out looking roses…it certainly helped him for sure!). Gronk looked to be quick as hell from his start here as a Buc, in which he looked like he was covered in cement.
AB isn’t a need, he is a vital luxury, but he shouldn’t be a replacement for Godwin. Godwin was handpicked and grown, and Brady raves about the kid. He was beat to hell and still motored on, I still think Licht may tag him, and figure out his salary after one more title run where they can start to cut fat off this roster again.
If anyone thinks that Shaq is replaceable by any of the free agents…they are insane.; Well not really.
He’s really good but he is replaceable. He played great in the Superbowl but he had Vea back and was against two backup tackles. If you look at objective stats he wasn’t even top 5 at his position this year. I’d love to see him on the team next year but it all comes down to money.
Sticking to my words. Shaq isn’t that great without Vea. I am staying with it.
Shaq was second in the NFL (to the generational Aaron Donald) in QBP’s this season with Vea sidelined the vast majority of the year. Giving certain players credit for other players performance isn’t a good idea.
Bucs are $170M under the 2021 cap. They can afford him.
You should chat with this dude who has been saying the team is in cap hell for last four or five years. I’ll bump the thread so y’all can argue.
I did not say Vea “made” Shaq. I said he isn’t that great ..meaning Shaq is a dominate player with Vea playing in front of him. SHAQ does pressure the qb well he he is good run supporter without Vea. He will be that 2019 Shaq with Vea playing. Remember I said “great” not “made”.
Shaq may not have the money thrown at him as he thinks he will. Nor may Fournette find a lucrative contract. Peter Schrager thinks it will be a blood bath with all the cuts. We are already seeing a lot of cuts. I am sure there will be many more. Schrager feels a lot of higher tier players will have to take cheap 1 or 2 year deals just to get by until they can get that next big contract. So speculating that Shaq can command 20 million or Godwin 17 million may not be reality, at least not this year.
Losing Shaq would no doubt be a loss, but whoever replaces him couldn’t be in a better position to succeed. It is for that reason, I am not losing any sleep at night.
Some of you are forgetting Succop in the list of FAs that the Bucs need to retain. He is higher on the list than AB and Suh there is no doubt about that. Succop is a top 4 priority and I know the kicker salary won’t dent the cap too badly but it is still 3-5 million the Bucs won’t have.
All these guys can and should be brought back if the price is reasonable. The outside market, as others have mentioned, won’t be nearly as friendly this year. Only guy I would potentially pay slightly more than market value for is David. That is likely a foolish business decision but a FA can come in and get 8 sacks, what LB is gonna come in and be the high end utility man Lavonte is? The 10 year Buc who is the heart of that D?
I think all of us watch football and a few of us know football so give us a break! For a guy you say is “irreplaceable” he was barely a factor against WFT and the Saints registering a total of 3 tackles, one for a loss and no sacks. Yes Barrett was great against Green Bay and the Chiefs but he certainly was helped by both those teams being without their best offensive tackles.
If the Bucs can get a reasonable deal around $18 million per for 4 years I say do it but if he wants $22 million then I say no. The Bucs will find a good replacement for cheaper.
Shaq is more important than some people think. Not only are his stats great, but many players on the team see him as one of the major reasons they won last season. I put a lot of credence in the players themselves who are saying this. I am sure BA agrees. People forget that players like Shaq are not just just cogs in a wheel that can easily be replaced. Losing him would be a psychological loss and a blow to the camaraderie that the team has built up. Sports is more mental than people realize.
Do you want to lose Shaq and then regret the choice later, saying, why didn’t we do more to keep him? I don’t want to be in that boat–I want to keep the defense in one piece–the defense that held the invincible Chiefs to no TDs.
Nobody wants to lose Shaq. A lot of us don’t want to pay him 20+ mil a year at the expense of our other guys. If he won’t take around 18 a year, I don’t think you resign him.
He is gonna be pushing 30 and if he wants to play for the Jags or Jets at 21 mil per, then good luck and have fun. At least in Jacksonville he keeps his tax money.. but who is he working beside?
He might go there and put up 15 sacks and his replacement is mediocre and puts up 6. Then Boid Fink is right.
Of course the opposite could also happen. Shaq is a terrific player and I don’t think the system and his line mates make him but they don’t hurt. Shaq had 8 regular season sacks then feasted on mostly backups. The culture of the team has changed. Anybody coming in, will be putting in their best work because of the Brady effect. In my mind that pushes the FA bust rate way down unless injuries are the culprit.
The truth prolly lies somewhere in the middle of this argument where he would be missed and the line would be slightly less impactful but it wouldn’t be enough to derail the season. Especially if he is let go in order to retain David, Godwin, Suh, Succop, Gronk. Again, all just opinion but fyi … I do watch the games.
@HockeyDuckie, I don’t trust Spotrac lately as they have different adjusted salary cap for different teams. The Bucs? $184,551,108. The Saints? $187,990,504. The Falocon? $187,505,908. And if it is supposed to include rollover, well they are still different. Bucs minus rollover? $179,969,050. Saints minus rollover? 183,868,315. Falcons minus? $185,725,302. What kind of fuzzy math are they doing?
Shaq was asked to play in zone coverage, AND the “wrong” side of the field (from his 19 sack year), so a lot of these things affected his statistical production. But he chased QBs at an elite level, made them operate in an uncomfortable pocket.
Shaq is with the money. The team has not restructured contracts that it should. Yet. Not sure if it’s a combination of asking players to take less, or asking the Glazers to pony up bonus money, but I think they will work their asses off to keep Shaq and Suh. AB and Gronk are going to probably willingly take incentive laden deals to stay with Brady, as all three of those amigos as in it for the right reasons. They love each other and love playing football.
I think getting into the head of Aaron Rodgers was worth more than enough. He also played him twice. If we want to go to the super bowl again, we’ll probably have to face Rodgers again. I don’t care if he’s a rotational player or not, getting into the head of a great, mentally can change the entire game.
Suh’s strength and versatility to play any and every gap should not be overlooked. He had a monstrous playoff run, and finished the regular season with 44 tackles and 6 sacks, that’s pretty good production from a guy who’s moving all over the line.
Jurrell Casey? LOL cmon, the guy’s an undersized 3-tech. We would have just kept Gerald McCoy if that’s what Bowles needed.
The only difference between Casey and Suh/McCoy the last 10 years is perception based on draft status. Just because the Bucs got hot at the end of the season doesn’t mean Suh played well. He was a JAG.
Six sacks is pretty good for being an older DT who relies on brute strength primarily for his production. He just clobbers guys, he plays the run like a anchor should. He also terrifies QBs and you can see that. He wears linemen out. He has to take a pay cut though. No choice. If he wants back in, he should be willing to understand the dynamics. He will still make good money, and improve his future by being a part of potentially two super bowl teams. I wish we could have drafted him instead of McCoy. I always liked this mofo.
I think he’s great, be totally on board with signing long term, but going to push back a bit on him being so ultimately important. It starts with realizing what this defense is. It’s an incredible run defense (mostly scheme) and pedestrian pass defense. Pass rush is a team effort and Barrett (3rd on team in sacks) is not so completely better than everybody else that he can shoulder creating pressure all on his own. A little perspective maybe.
Agree with Boid here. Suh wasn’t “just a guy”. An anchor against the run, durable as they get, played a shit ton of snaps for his age, an admirable 6 sacks and pressure.
Sometimes I wonder what the hell JC is watching. You want us to replace suh with a 3 technique? Dude give it a break with your anti-homer persona.. it gets old. Nothing wrong with having different opinions and “hot takes” but circle back when you know you’re dead wrong.
Watch the same game, just with a trained eye and coaches film after. Right now this place is an echo chamber of how great this team. There’s literally a thread of people saying it’s the best roster of all-time. </p>
<p>They got hot at the end of the year but there’s room for improvement. Moving on from Suh is one.
Among 70 qualified Defensive Linemen, Kong Suh was 44th overall last season. That would make him below average, gents.
This is one of the rare times when the Red Board GM finds a nut. Suh did play a lot of snaps and had some flash plays, so he gets credit for that. But there were plenty of times where he was just going through the motions out there. He was a helluva physical specimen, but I’m not sure how much he has left in the tank.
“But there were plenty of times where he was just going through the motions out there.”
So does JPP JC. When you know you’re going to be playing extra reps, especially when Vea was out, I don’t blame those guys for pacing themselves. Also, consider what their assignment was on each play …. that’s part what separates “Red Board GM”s from those with a good eye for breaking down/ analyzing tape.
I still believe it’s difficult to replace ‘the girl named Suh’, especially when he’s paired with the big Vita. Suh’s obviously not at his peak anymore, but from what I see, he’s more than likely got enough left in the tank for at least another season or two.
Here’s an additional observation to get things stirred up – Lavonte David showed some signs of slowing down during the playoff run. Maybe he was just nicked up and/or his mind/ body wasn’t allowing him to go full speed, which is OK. He’s had a long, fantastic career thus far, and it’s great that he’ll be back; I’m not being critical, it is what it is. He may need to change his conditioning, maybe even go TB12 because Geritol prolly ain’t gonna do it.
Although I have issues with these type of analytic rankings. For arguments sake, let’s say he was the 44th best DT. But for value, and the tone he set on the line against the run I’d have to say the Bucs benefit with him schematically. Should he get paid as much as last year? Absolutely not. But I think where we are with the cap it would behoove us to get him on a >5 milli contract for next season. No money tied to next year, and we get a solid (and extremely consistent/durable) piece back.
Vita Vea AND Suh have a unique combination of strength and speed that allows Bowles to confuse opposing QBs by lining them up all over the place. Suh and Vea played quite a few snaps in wide 9, 0 tech, 3 tech, 5 tech.
Suh is not the dominant player he was in 2011, but he’s still worthy of a $4-5 million dollar deal, and ideally we find his replacement in the draft this year.
Speaking of 2011, that’s the last time Suh missed a game to injury. He’s a goddamn ironman. That’s unheard of playing in the trenches.
Suh is fine for the Bucs rotation. Need a young guy to pair with Vea.
Nab a young DT from the draft, and some edge rushers and the Bucs defense can still churn. Whether Shaq returns or not who knows but what I do know is that this scheme requires a rotation along the DL to function properly.
Here’s an additional observation to get things stirred up – Lavonte David showed some signs of slowing down during the playoff run.
I thought David was pretty good during the playoff run, save the NO game, but he definitely had a handful of games this year where he looked bad in coverage. Very non-David like. But I’d also say his contract reflected that. He didn’t get as much as talking heads thought he was going to get. I’m not against re-signing Suh for less than he made last season.
But for value, and the tone he set on the line against the run I’d have to say the Bucs benefit with him schematically. Absolutely not. But I think where we are with the cap it would behoove us to get him on a >5 milli contract for next season.
I’m not against the team re-signing Suh for $3M-$4M. I’m more pushing back against the hyperbole that Suh “set the tone” in the run game. Sure, he did occasionally. But he wasn’t this immovable force that people in this thread are making him out to be. FWIW, he ranked 28th outta those same 70 qualified DL – slightly better than average vs. the run.
For those that care, draft favorite Ed Oliver was dead last @ #70.
I don’t think I said Suh was the beast he used to be. I said he is very strong, he does anchor fairly well but getting 6 sacks at his age and from his position shows he has a lot left to give. He also does clobber guys all game long, and after three quarters it does wear linemen out. He does scare QBs because he still hits his targets as viciously as he can. I though that shove on Rodgers was going to be flagged or was such a violent push. And he tried to decapitate Mahomes in the biggest game of his life. He got stronger as the season wore on. He is durable.
He isn’t a heyday wreaking ball, but he is a valuable component to this defense.
His presence was felt in the Super Bowl particularly.
Suh has been playing a lot of snaps…I really wonder if Suh become more effective with less of a work load and comes in on third down situations or short yardage situations To me it is a no brainer to nab a DT early in the draft to rotate with Suh opposite of Vea.
When did I copy a thread of yours about Creed? You’re insane you lying dog.
I don’t have a history of doing anything like that. You know why? Because I don’t you clown. You have me mistaken for Bootz, the plagiarizing trolltard. Don’t get your shit confused liar. Bucs GM candidate my monkey ass.