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    • Commish987

      Participant
      Post count: 23

      http://cbsloc.al/1oRvAic

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      Bait and switch

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Hell yeah. Boom!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Either an elaborate smoke screen or this is legit haha.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      This guy has nothing to gain by mentioning the bucs. If he was from around here, I would question it though.If he wanted to "sell" he would've mentioned the cowboys or texans.This sounds legit.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 881

      Smokescreen

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 51

      I can confirm that this is 100% true.  Source: I’m from the internets

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2015

      Either an elaborate smoke screen or this is legit haha.

      Well, that would appear to the two options...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      It’s a lock.  The Bucs are trading up to the first pick in the draft and picking Manziel.  Hallelujah!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      somewhere…..10lbbass’ head explodes!!!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2026

      Best. News. Ever.Go get em lovie he won't make it to 7. Schiano might've fucked us over one last time by winning that meaningless lions or bills game. Ugh

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 56

      Anyone have a link to the vid of just passes for JFF?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Ha – would never ever happen.  Never.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 950

      somewhere.....10lbbass' head explodes!!!

      Waiting on the impact.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1040

      Please god let this happen

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 905

      http://cbsloc.al/1oRvAic

      smokescreen. Bucs want more picks. They are trying to hunt up a trading partner.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      #lovelovelove

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2026

      Lol @ppl saying smokescreen. What does this guy have to earn by saying this? What’s his connection to the bucs or lovie? I could see if it was some “anonymous source”. But this guy has no connection to us and no reason to smokescreen on the benefit of the bucs.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 693

      Johnny Manziel had the highest wonderlic score of all QB’s this coming draft. This kid eats, breathes, and sleeps football.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      He’s going to fail like no one has.  There are a bunch of lemmings on this board……………….and you are all going to jump.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      He's going to fail like no one has.  There are a bunch of lemmings on this board...................and you are all going to jump.

      You're starting to get ridiculous. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      Johnny Manziel had the highest wonderlic score of all QB's this coming draft. This kid eats, breathes, and sleeps football.

      He's going to be the best QB in the NFL very soon.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Johnny Manziel had the highest wonderlic score of all QB's this coming draft. This kid eats, breathes, and sleeps football.

      The Wonderlic isn't a football quiz...so him scoring high on that doesn't prove that football is what he "eats, breathes, and sleeps".

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Johnny Manziel had the highest wonderlic score of all QB's this coming draft. This kid eats, breathes, and sleeps football.

      He's going to be the best QB in the NFL very soon.

      Like Tebow, right Java?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2594

      Somewhere…sad_giraffe.jpg

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Johnny Manziel had the highest wonderlic score of all QB's this coming draft. This kid eats, breathes, and sleeps football.

      He's going to be the best QB in the NFL very soon.

      Exactly.  No matter what team drafts him, a lot of you guys will be eating a stool sandwich.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Johnny Manziel had the highest wonderlic score of all QB's this coming draft. This kid eats, breathes, and sleeps football.

      He's going to be the best QB in the NFL very soon.

      Exactly.  No matter what team drafts him, a lot of you guys will be eating a stool sandwich.

      Full retard in 3...2...1...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      He's going to fail like no one has.  There are a bunch of lemmings on this board...................and you are all going to jump.

      You're starting to get ridiculous.

      starting??

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      He's going to fail like no one has.  There are a bunch of lemmings on this board...................and you are all going to jump.

      You're starting to get ridiculous.

      starting??

      Being that I was all for giving Glennon a shot this season, I kind of supported 10lbbass. But, he has gone full blown retard over the last few weeks.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      Lol @ppl saying smokescreen. What does this guy have to earn by saying this? What's his connection to the bucs or lovie? I could see if it was some "anonymous source". But this guy has no connection to us and no reason to smokescreen on the benefit of the bucs.

      I'm not saying this is a smokescreen, though I definitely hope it's not true that the Bucs are interested, but I don't think you get how the smokescreen works. It isn't a case of people in the know getting together with a member of the media so the media member can present information to the benefit of the team. The media member isn't a complicit party to the deception. The media member thinks they're getting legit inside information and passing it along.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      He's going to fail like no one has.  There are a bunch of lemmings on this board...................and you are all going to jump.

      You're starting to get ridiculous.

      starting??

      Being that I was all for giving Glennon a shot this season, I kind of supported 10lbbass. But, he has gone full blown retard over the last few weeks.

      It's as if Java has taken over his body

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      Java supports Manziel, not Glennon.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Java supports Manziel, not Glennon.

      I was not referencing the content of the post, but moreso their stupidity and the cries for attention that they exhibit.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 391

      Rich McKay told people himself that Derrick Brooks was too small and would never make it in the NFL. Just putting that out there.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Java could be right about manziel, but you wouldn’t know it because he has been so wrong soo many times before.If there was one thing I could knock manziel for, it would be that java likes him. Very unsettling actually agreeing with that turd.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Java could be right about manziel, but you wouldn't know it because he has been so wrong soo many times before.If there was one thing I could knock manziel for, it would be that java likes him. Very unsettling actually agreeing with that turd.

      the way that you and i like Manziel i'm sure differs from the way Java likes him.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Yeah, because tebow isn’t starting in the nfl because of racism. Lol.Evil white manning!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      Java could be right about manziel, but you wouldn't know it because he has been so wrong soo many times before.If there was one thing I could knock manziel for, it would be that java likes him. Very unsettling actually agreeing with that turd.

      the way that you and i like Manziel i'm sure differs from the way Java likes him.

      That's because you only like him sexually.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Java, you’re doing that denial thing again.Stop projecting on others. Just because you have sexual interest in manziel, doesn't mean the rest of us do.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      For sure Hate does.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Does this mean Java is replacing the Tebow poster on his ceiling with a Manziel one?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Does this mean Java is replacing the Tebow poster on his ceiling with a Manziel one?

      Trick question. You know he'll have both.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Does this mean Java is replacing the Tebow poster on his ceiling with a Manziel one?

      he's already given us a sampling from his Manziel collection

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Does this mean Java is replacing the Tebow poster on his ceiling with a Manziel one?

      Trick question. You know he'll have both.

      Excellent point sir.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1312

      How in the fuck is this disturbing loser at life infesting these boards again?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Idk. I think he’s funny.Not "haha" funny, but more like "damn, I can't believe he's that dense" funny.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      Idk. I think he's funny.Not "haha" funny, but more like "damn, I can't believe he's that dense" funny.

      albert-einstein-quote.jpgYou would have been one of those guys back in the day arguing that the world was flat and anyone who thought otherwise was an idiot.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I would’ve been one of those guys that wouldn’t have given a sh1t.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 47

      oh god please don’t pick Johnny I think it would be a huge mistake.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 43

      Rich McKay told people himself that Derrick Brooks was too small and would never make it in the NFL. Just putting that out there.

      Taking into account McKay's talent evaluating skills.  I'm sure had he been calling the shots during that draft, that someone other than Derrick Brooks' name probably would have been called.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 965

      Could it be that Lovie is looking at Manziel through a defensive guru’s eyes? He could imagine the headache that Manziel creates for D coordinators, and decide he wants that weapon on his side for a change.  The more important question is whether Tedford loves Johnny, not whether Lovie and Licht do?  They may pick him, but if Tedford can’t manage JFF, then it’s doomed to fail.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 950

      Could it be that Lovie is looking at Manziel through a defensive guru's eyes? He could imagine the headache that Manziel creates for D coordinators, and decide he wants that weapon on his side for a change.  The more important question is whether Tedford loves Johnny, not whether Lovie and Licht do?  They may pick him, but if Tedford can't manage JFF, then it's doomed to fail.

      With as creative as Tedford was at Cal, I don't see why he wouldn't work well with Johnny.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 262

      Don’t see it really. Commish has been hawking Manziel for some time with various articles and pushing his own agenda. Personally I hope Manziel is long gone before we pick to make this a moot point. I’ll readily admit I’m not a Manziel fan and having watched most of his games in the last 2 years think Evans is really the one who made Manziel look better than he is. I think folks are also forgetting that Licht said he saw a franchise QB in this draft but not the ones we are thinking of. If anything, this article puts more pressure on teams above us to pick Manziel early as they suddenly have a will they won’t they dilemma if they let him drop.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1385

      I have no problem with the Manziel pick if that’s the guy that L&L want at #7. I tend to believe like Nic above, I think Evans made Johnny look a lot better than he was but everyone is entitled to their opinion. In this case mine doesn’t matter, the only opinions that do are L&L so if they choose him, I’ll root for him to succeed.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4057

      He’s not gonna be as special at the pro level.  Guys are faster, he won’t be able to dipsie do all over the place. He’s small. He’s one read and not all that accurate…..but he’s a Baller so I guess it all evens out.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Either an elaborate smoke screen or this is legit haha.

      What's so elaborate about it?? 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 830

      Not a fan of the pick myself but am totally convinced now that he is the pick if he is available at 7. Mah sourches! ha ha. No seriously my sources say the exact samething, he will be the pick if he is there at 7.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Wow, May is going to be the best month I have had in a while.  There are a lot of fools on this board.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      It was so nice of the Bucs to let QB hungry teams like Minnesota know they need to leapfrog us if they want JFF. I feel very secure now Johnny will be gone before we pick , even if he wasn’t going to be before. Lol

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2962

      Johnny Manziel had the highest wonderlic score of all QB's this coming draft. This kid eats, breathes, and sleeps football.

      Aaaaaaaactually this isn't accurate. He scored a 32, which is better than the other "top" QBs like Bridgewater and Bortles but it wasn't the best of all QBs. I forgot his name, but one of the lesser known QBs scored a 40.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3027

      So we cut Mike Williams, a guy who has cleared to date of legal wrong doing, because he seems not totally committed to football yet we’re loving JFF who has had his off the field issues/lack of commitment well documented. I’m sure if we make him a millionaire he’ll clean his act up though.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      So we cut Mike Williams, a guy who has cleared to date of legal wrong doing, because he seems not totally committed to football yet we're loving JFF who has had his off the field issues/lack of commitment well documented. I'm sure if we make him a millionaire he'll clean his act up though.

      In JFF's defense, he's already a millionaire, he comes from oil money I believe.  But you bring up a good point.  He's a risk in terms of team dedication as well. He doesn't want to just go to any team.  I think the team that has the best chance to get the most out of him is Oakland.  Cleveland and Jacksonville would not be a good fit franchise wise I'm afraid. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      I think Cleveland, Oakland, Jacksonville and 28 other teams tie for first in terms of best fit for Manziel. The Bucs are a distant 32nd.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1125

      Best fit for Manziel is definitely the Bucs.  But he’d fit on any team.  He’s a star.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2026

      Best fit for Manziel is definitely the Bucs.  But he'd fit on any team.  He's a star.

      Gotta agree with java here.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1128

      Idk. I think he's funny.Not "haha" funny, but more like "damn, I can't believe he's that dense" funny.

      "Mmm Hmm, not funny haha, funny queer" Sling Blade, great movie lol.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1128

      How in the **CENSORED** is this disturbing loser at life infesting these boards again?

      He's like herpes. He will never go away..

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3027

      Best fit for Manziel is definitely the Bucs.  But he'd fit on any team.  He's a star.

      Gotta agree with java here.

      Yeah, he's a star alright.Star......(of a movie, play, or other show) have (someone) as a principal performer."a film starring Liza Minnelli"Why the hell would you want that?

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1125

      Why am I not surprised that BucsNY is a Liza Minelli fan?

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3027

      Here you go bro teebow.com. New color Tebow thong available for you. No need to thank me.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2188

      I bet the Glazers love the potential star power and merchandise sales that Johnny Football would bring. Whoever drafts JFF will get plenty of primetime games.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      The Bucs don’t profit from his merchandise sales, though. Jersey sales are shared by all teams.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1784

      Ny brings up a good point about the party stuff. Why the double standard for Manziel? Williams was a decent player on the field. I will go out on a limb and say Manziel is not picked by the Bucs this may.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      This is a smoke screen. All of the top QBs coming in to visit is two-fold. 1. Due diligence. 2. They want to trade back for Evans….or, get someone to trade up ahead of them for a QB to help Evans or Watkins fall to them. Seriously, guys. You know Lovie. He is a conservative, defensive-minded coach. While Manziel has a ton of upside, he will have a penchant for turnovers at the next level and has already shown that his mind isn’t completely occupied with football. He is too much of a wildcard for a guy like Lovie. Additionally, do you really see him wanting to face to the media scrutiny (distractions) of keeping Manziel on the bench for any amount of time?So, while you Manziel-lovers basking in the glory of this report, I'm just not buying it. Doesn't seem like Lovie to me. And I'm not buying this "loves guys from Texas" BS either. He'll sign a guy from any state if he believes he the type of football player that will help this team.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      Ny brings up a good point about the party stuff. Why the double standard for Manziel? Williams was a decent player on the field. I will go out on a limb and say Manziel is not picked by the Bucs this may.

      The argument would be not all party players keep partying forever. Vincent Jackson was at one time on the verge of a year long suspension but then he cleaned up his act and is fine now. The Bucs decided Mike Williams' partying wasn't going to stop anytime soon. If the Bucs were to draft Manziel, the thought would be that his party days are over. Unless I'm forgetting something, all his party stories were from the summer of 2013. I don't recall any from the past year.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      There is a ton of fantasy football on this board.  Think about Lovie and who he is.  He’s not drafting Manziel, not in any round.  It’s really silly to think otherwise. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      This is a smoke screen. All of the top QBs coming in to visit is two-fold. 1. Due diligence. 2. They want to trade back for Evans....or, get someone to trade up ahead of them for a QB to help Evans or Watkins fall to them. Seriously, guys. You know Lovie. He is a conservative, defensive-minded coach. While Manziel has a ton of upside, he will have a penchant for turnovers at the next level and has already shown that his mind isn't completely occupied with football. He is too much of a wildcard for a guy like Lovie. Additionally, do you really see him wanting to face to the media scrutiny (distractions) of keeping Manziel on the bench for any amount of time?So, while you Manziel-lovers basking in the glory of this report, I'm just not buying it. Doesn't seem like Lovie to me. And I'm not buying this "loves guys from Texas" BS either. He'll sign a guy from any state if he believes he the type of football player that will help this team.

      I heard a discussion of ex-scouts on the subject of Manziel and other, non-traditional QBs (i.e. non-pocket guys) a few months ago. They thought that those types of QB were a lot more appealing to Defense-oriented coaches than to Offensive-oriented head coaches. The point was that QBs that can run frustrate the heck out of defensive coordinators.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      This is a smoke screen. All of the top QBs coming in to visit is two-fold. 1. Due diligence. 2. They want to trade back for Evans....or, get someone to trade up ahead of them for a QB to help Evans or Watkins fall to them. Seriously, guys. You know Lovie. He is a conservative, defensive-minded coach. While Manziel has a ton of upside, he will have a penchant for turnovers at the next level and has already shown that his mind isn't completely occupied with football. He is too much of a wildcard for a guy like Lovie. Additionally, do you really see him wanting to face to the media scrutiny (distractions) of keeping Manziel on the bench for any amount of time?So, while you Manziel-lovers basking in the glory of this report, I'm just not buying it. Doesn't seem like Lovie to me. And I'm not buying this "loves guys from Texas" BS either. He'll sign a guy from any state if he believes he the type of football player that will help this team.

      I heard a discussion of ex-scouts on the subject of Manziel and other, non-traditional QBs (i.e. non-pocket guys) a few months ago. They thought that those types of QB were a lot more appealing to Defense-oriented coaches than to Offensive-oriented head coaches. The point was that QBs that can run frustrate the heck out of defensive coordinators.

      Until that running QB gets his wings clipped and can't play anymore. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1784

      Ny brings up a good point about the party stuff. Why the double standard for Manziel? Williams was a decent player on the field. I will go out on a limb and say Manziel is not picked by the Bucs this may.

      The argument would be not all party players keep partying forever. Vincent Jackson was at one time on the verge of a year long suspension but then he cleaned up his act and is fine now. The Bucs decided Mike Williams' partying wasn't going to stop anytime soon. If the Bucs were to draft Manziel, the thought would be that his party days are over. Unless I'm forgetting something, all his party stories were from the summer of 2013. I don't recall any from the past year.

      And that's really the question that L & L are going to be asking themselves. I think NYs point is the fact that they gotta ask themselves that question may be enough to remove Manziel from their board.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      It’s nothing to this article…lots of he said this and that….nothing concreteIf Watkins, Bortles, or Bridgewater is there, do you really think the Bucs would draft this clown?Not a Tedford QB and destined to be a 3 and out QB and turnover machine....

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      News flash havok.Lovie is from texas, tedford has had his fair share of trouble against texas players, and tedford also coached smith, carr, and boller, who were only a little taller than manziel.Putting stock into a inch or two, is like putting stock in four wins in a season. You shouldn't.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      Whoa, no wonder they brought in Garrett Gilbert! He played at TWO! colleges in Texas and Lovie is from Texas and Tedford had trouble against Texas players! All the dots connect, the puzzle pieces fit, Garrett Gilbert at #7!!!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Whoa, no wonder they brought in Garrett Gilbert! He played at TWO! colleges in Texas and Lovie is from Texas and Tedford had trouble against Texas players! All the dots connect, the puzzle pieces fit, Garrett Gilbert at #7!!!

      It might be, even if you're joking.I fully expect them to draft a qb somewhere. Where at is subject for debate. I hope manziel though.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2608

      I am joking. I think the Texas connection is a bit of a reach. :)I expect them to draft a QB. I'm hoping it's Bridgewater or Carr or a later round developmental project guy, which I think Manziel would qualify as if they could get him in the third or later!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      I am joking. I think the Texas connection is a bit of a reach. :)I expect them to draft a QB. I'm hoping it's Bridgewater or Carr or a later round developmental project guy, which I think Manziel would qualify as if they could get him in the third or later!

      Exactly.  Manziel will be a bigger project than Timmy T.  No #7 grade for anyone that can't come in an start on day one.  Too many other needs.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8983

      Idk about reach. Texas guys and gators guys are about the same. Kinda flock together.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3392

      I am joking. I think the Texas connection is a bit of a reach. :)I expect them to draft a QB. I'm hoping it's Bridgewater or Carr or a later round developmental project guy, which I think Manziel would qualify as if they could get him in the third or later!

      Exactly.  Manziel will be a bigger project than Timmy T.  No #7 grade for anyone that can't come in an start on day one.  Too many other needs.

      Please. Project or not, he's nothing like Timmy T.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      I don’t think he’s a bigger project than Tebow, but I was pretty confident Tebow would be out of the league within a few seasons and was unsalvageable as a QB. I don’t think it’s impossible that Manziel turns into a good NFL QB, but I think the best case scenario for him is a middle-of-the-pack QB that wins and loses games for you, that’s exciting to watch but equally for bad reasons and good reasons.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      A slower less effective Michael Vick is Manziel.  His game is nothing like Young’s, Garcia’s, Wilson’s, or Kaep’s.  As he stand’s right now, he far too sandlot for the league.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2275

      Manziel is not a bigger project than Tebow. Manziel is 10x the QB Tebow will ever be.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1571

      I will be very surprised if we stay at 7 and draft anything but a lineman.  How the draft unfolds will dictate if its offense or defense, but my money is on a lineman.I honestly see Manziel hitting Tony Romo, Josh Freeman, Rex Grossman levels of inconsistency.  I think he wil look All-Pro for a 2 or 3 game stretch and then go out and take a dump in the middle of the field.  Call me crazy, but I would prefer a QB I can count on game in and game out to perform at a B level than a QB that might be an A or might be a D.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1427

      Please let this happen.  We want Johnny Football! !!!!

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4623

      I will be very surprised if we stay at 7 and draft anything but a lineman.  How the draft unfolds will dictate if its offense or defense, but my money is on a lineman.I honestly see Manziel hitting Tony Romo, Josh Freeman, Rex Grossman levels of inconsistency.  I think he wil look All-Pro for a 2 or 3 game stretch and then go out and take a dump in the middle of the field.  Call me crazy, but I would prefer a QB I can count on game in and game out to perform at a B level than a QB that might be an A or might be a D.

      Tony Romo does not deserve to be compared to those two. We should be so lucky to have a QB as "inconsistent" as him.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2697

      News flash havok.Lovie is from texas, tedford has had his fair share of trouble against texas players, and tedford also coached smith, carr, and boller, who were only a little taller than manziel.Putting stock into a inch or two, is like putting stock in four wins in a season. You shouldn't.

      Yep...That's the deciding factor...Next you going to tell me you pick the winners of football games based on the color of the jersey....

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      #hypehypehype7f589384-85a7-4790-8bfc-b5a552b0715a_zpsd343eb0a.jpg

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      I will be very surprised if we stay at 7 and draft anything but a lineman.  How the draft unfolds will dictate if its offense or defense, but my money is on a lineman.I honestly see Manziel hitting Tony Romo, Josh Freeman, Rex Grossman levels of inconsistency.  I think he wil look All-Pro for a 2 or 3 game stretch and then go out and take a dump in the middle of the field.  Call me crazy, but I would prefer a QB I can count on game in and game out to perform at a B level than a QB that might be an A or might be a D.

      Tony Romo does not deserve to be compared to those two. We should be so lucky to have a QB as "inconsistent" as him.

      So true,  he's a great QB playing for the shittiest franchise in all of sports.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5438

      Tony Romo “great”?Hardly. He is in the same class of QB as Cutler and Rivers. Above average to good....but hardly great.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 861

      Please let this happen.  We want Johnny Football! !!!!

      This "we" doesn't want any part of him.  What good will it be if after Lovie has cleaned house and then lets crap back in thru the draft?  I doubt it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Tony Romo "great"?Hardly. He is in the same class of QB as Cutler and Rivers. Above average to good....but hardly great.

      I dont know, his #s are pretty impressive.  His team is so poorly run that is amazing there are any fans of the Cowboys left.  Until Jerry dies, they will be stuck in mediocrity.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      Welp, enough of the Manziel in the first. Tommy John Surgery takes 10-14 months to recover.Screen%20Shot%202014-04-11%20at%201.35.56%20PM.png

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Welp, enough of the Manziel in the first. Tommy John Surgery takes 10-14 months to recover.Screen%20Shot%202014-04-11%20at%201.35.56%20PM.png

      Sure that's not Matt Moore?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      Love love love Manziel.  Suck it haters. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      Welp, enough of the Manziel in the first. Tommy John Surgery takes 10-14 months to recover.Screen%20Shot%202014-04-11%20at%201.35.56%20PM.png

      I don't see that on Darlington's feed.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      It’s not.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Welp, enough of the Manziel in the first. Tommy John Surgery takes 10-14 months to recover.Screen%20Shot%202014-04-11%20at%201.35.56%20PM.png

      lol

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Welp, enough of the Manziel in the first. Tommy John Surgery takes 10-14 months to recover.Screen%20Shot%202014-04-11%20at%201.35.56%20PM.png

      I don't see that on Darlington's feed.

      http://f.cl.ly/items/2H1N3s3f040k3p1E1L3p/Screen%20Shot%202014-04-11%20at%201.35.56%20PM.png

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2608

      He must have deleted it, probably a smokescreen.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Comparing tebow and manziel shows you didn’t watch either guy. That’s all, that’s it…kick rocks, seeya later.Manziel has a MUCH better arm and is very smart. He doesn't need designed plays to run the ball, and he doesn't need tricks to play at a high level. Also, manziel's football knowledge is well above and beyond tebow's. Tebow talked about living the football life, manziel actually lives and breathes it.Tebow had all the heart manziel has, but none of the actual talent for the position like manziel does. Heart is possibly the only similarity.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5572

      I haven’t seen this anywhere on PFT, NFL.com, ESPN or anywhere else.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      JFF has had this since mid-season.  It’s not news.  His agent feels that his overall greatness is more than enough to overcome an injury that would require surgery named after some pussy from 30 years ago.  I may be changing my tune now………….fuck it, let’s draft Johnny Football!!!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      Let’s make shit up.  Just face the facts…everything you thought over the last 5 years has been wrong.  Manziel is the anti Heemy, anti Freeturd, anti Schiano, anti Dom.  He would be the best choice this team could make. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 830

      Comparing tebow and manziel shows you didn't watch either guy. That's all, that's it...kick rocks, seeya later.Manziel has a MUCH better arm and is very smart. He doesn't need designed plays to run the ball, and he doesn't need tricks to play at a high level. Also, manziel's football knowledge is well above and beyond tebow's. Tebow talked about living the football life, manziel actually lives and breathes it.Tebow had all the heart manziel has, but none of the actual talent for the position like manziel does. Heart is possibly the only similarity.

      It is a bad comparison. I've been guilty in the past of not giving Manziel enough credit. What concerns me is the off the field stuff and if he can hold up with the hits he is going to take in the NFL.  It's kind of easy to hate on him cause he is such a punk but if he is the pick he will be our punk. I call it the Warren Sapp scenario, ha ha.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1571

      I won’t deny Manziel is a talented player.  What scares me are the off the field antics and how reckless he is on the field with the ball and his body.  I just don’t think he can dial it back and take what the defense gives him.  There are times when a QB needs to go all in on a play, but not every play.  He will make some beautiful highlight reels in the pros, but I also think he will be hurt a lot and will turn the ball over a lot.  I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze with him.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Welp, enough of the Manziel in the first. Tommy John Surgery takes 10-14 months to recover.Screen%20Shot%202014-04-11%20at%201.35.56%20PM.png

      I don't see that on Darlington's feed.

      http://f.cl.ly/items/2H1N3s3f040k3p1E1L3p/Screen%20Shot%202014-04-11%20at%201.35.56%20PM.png

      The Commish will now blame the "Johnny haters" for hacking Darlington's twitter.

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    • BConnell88

      Participant
      Post count: 83

      IF Johnny Football is there at 7 and the Bucs Pass I will be done

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 114

      Has there ever been a more polarizing draft prospect than Manziel? Some pundits think he’s the #1 overall pick, when some have him falling to the 2nd round and on. Then you have those of us who have a crisis in our undies when the thought of him coming to the Bucs is a possibility, and those of us who get sick at the thought of him being a Buc. Can’t think of anyone.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Johnny’s rich parents paid Darlington off to squash this rumor.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      Comparing tebow and manziel shows you didn't watch either guy. That's all, that's it...kick rocks, seeya later.Manziel has a MUCH better arm and is very smart. He doesn't need designed plays to run the ball, and he doesn't need tricks to play at a high level. Also, manziel's football knowledge is well above and beyond tebow's. Tebow talked about living the football life, manziel actually lives and breathes it.Tebow had all the heart manziel has, but none of the actual talent for the position like manziel does. Heart is possibly the only similarity.

      It's actually a very good comparison between Tebow and Manziel, it's just a lot of Manziel fans get sensitive to it as if though comparing Manziel to such a huge bust means the person making the comparison is saying Manziel is the same QB as Tebow. It's either that or there are a lot of people that don't understand that you can make comparisons between guys that also have differences.For instance, people make tons of comparisons between Manziel and other QBs, both good (Young, Brees) and bad (Favre, RG3). But those are only comparisons to certain aspects of their game, not saying they have identical games.Tebow and Manziel both are polarizing and popular players that had/have games that don't project to the NFL from a traditional perspective. They are both weapons with their legs. They both were/are considered "winners" and "leaders" and players that wear their emotions on their sleeves. There were/are doubters about whether they have the arm to play in the NFL.Those are all ways in which they compare.EDIT: ...before Manziel tore his UCL.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2275

      lol…Its clear he used the fake tweet thing and should be banned.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      lol...Its clear he used the fake tweet thing and should be banned.

      I'd be pretty upset if the NFL Network banned Darlington. He's a good reporter and a local guy!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      Jon Gruden says you can kiss his ass for questioning Johnny Manziel.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 830

      Comparing tebow and manziel shows you didn't watch either guy. That's all, that's it...kick rocks, seeya later.Manziel has a MUCH better arm and is very smart. He doesn't need designed plays to run the ball, and he doesn't need tricks to play at a high level. Also, manziel's football knowledge is well above and beyond tebow's. Tebow talked about living the football life, manziel actually lives and breathes it.Tebow had all the heart manziel has, but none of the actual talent for the position like manziel does. Heart is possibly the only similarity.

      It's actually a very good comparison between Tebow and Manziel, it's just a lot of Manziel fans get sensitive to it as if though comparing Manziel to such a huge bust means the person making the comparison is saying Manziel is the same QB as Tebow. It's either that or there are a lot of people that don't understand that you can make comparisons between guys that also have differences.For instance, people make tons of comparisons between Manziel and other QBs, both good (Young, Brees) and bad (Favre, RG3). But those are only comparisons to certain aspects of their game, not saying they have identical games.Tebow and Manziel both are polarizing and popular players that had/have games that don't project to the NFL from a traditional perspective. They are both weapons with their legs. They both were/are considered "winners" and "leaders" and players that wear their emotions on their sleeves. There were/are doubters about whether they have the arm to play in the NFL.Those are all ways in which they compare.EDIT: ...before Manziel tore his UCL.

      Yet they don't play the game anything alike. I guess I'll give you the popular/polarizing player comparison, that's about the only comparison I see.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Jon Gruden says you can kiss his ass for questioning Johnny Manziel.

      You need to:1) Recoginize when the grown folk are talking and,2) Sit in the corner and colorWhen we want assinine, immature comments that have little to no relevence on a conversation, then, rest assured, we'll call you. Manziel's flags are real and merit discussion, period. You better believe that there isn't one team out there that is 100% sold on him.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      Yet they don't play the game anything alike. I guess I'll give you the popular/polarizing player comparison, that's about the only comparison I see.

      Well, which one of them isn't a weapon with their legs?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 830

      Yet they don't play the game anything alike. I guess I'll give you the popular/polarizing player comparison, that's about the only comparison I see.

      Well, which one of them isn't a weapon with their legs?

      That's like saying DeShaun Jackson is a good comparison to Calvin Johnson cause they are a weapon to catch the ball. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      It’s comparing an aspect of their games. Manziel and Tebow are both accomplished runners from the QB position. How is that not an apt comparison?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2275

      Manziel and Tebow aren’t even close to be the same type of QB.Tebow was a lot bigger, had horrible accuracy and long and terrible throwing motion. Manziel is basically Michael Vick, but he actually loves football and won't run a dog fighting ring.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      I don’t see anyone saying they are the same type of QB.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2275

      I don't see anyone saying they are the same type of QB.

      Why would you compare players if you don't think they are the same?Manning and Randall Cunningham are basically the same player then.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      I don't see anyone saying they are the same type of QB.

      Why would you compare players if you don't think they are the same?Manning and Randall Cunningham are basically the same player then.

      Who compared them as players on the field?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      It’s amazing to me that I have to explain to another adult what a comparison is. No 2 players are exactly the same, so by definition there’ll always be differences. You can easily compare two people that aren’t very similar. Cunningham and Manning are both quarterbacks in the NFL. That is a comparison. Cunningham and Manning both had successful careers. That is a comparison. They are both correct comparisons. They do not have to be the same to be compared to each other.If someone says Manziel, like Tebow, is a great college quarterback, that is a correct comparison. That is not saying that they are the same player. That is not even saying they are similar players, though they clearly are similar in their playing styles. For some reason, everyone loses their mind when they see the name Tebow. You don't see anyone get upset when people say he has a similar mindset to Brett Favre. They are not comparing their games beyond the gunslinger mentality.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      You can explain it until you are blue in the face, spoolios. The Manziel fanbois see the name “Tebow” in a Manziel thread and they immediately see red. The context doesn’t matter. It automatically goes to, “how dare you compare them as players”.The overwhelming majority of the Manziel/Tebow comparisons have been in regards to how they are they are talked about off the field.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      Yeah, I should have known when I couldn’t even get someone to agree that they are both accomplished runners that it was a lost cause.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      The red board is so fickle. It would honestly surprise me if LL drafted JFF. I just dont think they are going to. Who does he compare to? Is he a shorter smaller way slower version of Michael Vick? Is that the guy we are hitching the wagon to? And dont forget all of the distractions that are going to come with him as well.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      The red board is so fickle. It would honestly surprise me if LL drafted JFF. I just dont think they are going to. Who does he compare to? Is he a shorter smaller way slower version of Michael Vick? Is that the guy we are hitching the wagon to? And dont forget all of the distractions that are going to come with him as well.

      He's the quickest way to get yourself canned.  It's all parades and hoopla with him right now but man, talk about a turd in the punch bowl.  This is going to be really funny for some franchise. Just hope it's not Tampa.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      LnL Love Love Love him. Tedford, however…

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 138

      Don’t we need excitement and change in Tampa ? It’s been a rough run for us Bucs fans lately and Johnny Football would immediately stir interest in the Bucs and put people in the seats. I see no way he makes it to 7, but if he is there and we pass on him I will never forgive the organization.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 367

      This guy has nothing to gain by mentioning the bucs. If he was from around here, I would question it though.If he wanted to "sell" he would've mentioned the cowboys or texans.This sounds legit.

      That was a masterful job by the Atlanta Falcons, to grab the attention of teams that will want to jump up and trade to the number six slot with Atlanta, if Johnny Football makes it past Oakland!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1571

      This guy has nothing to gain by mentioning the bucs. If he was from around here, I would question it though.If he wanted to "sell" he would've mentioned the cowboys or texans.This sounds legit.

      That was a masterful job by the Atlanta Falcons, to grab the attention of teams that will want to jump up and trade to the number six slot with Atlanta, if Johnny Football makes it past Oakland!

      Mmhm.  Somebody (maybe us, maybe Atl, maybe somebody else) wants the QBs taken early to push some other players down or to get a nice trade. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 830

      I don't see anyone saying they are the same type of QB.

      Why would you compare players if you don't think they are the same?Manning and Randall Cunningham are basically the same player then.

      Who compared them as players on the field?

      Naismith

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      This guy has nothing to gain by mentioning the bucs. If he was from around here, I would question it though.If he wanted to "sell" he would've mentioned the cowboys or texans.This sounds legit.

      That was a masterful job by the Atlanta Falcons, to grab the attention of teams that will want to jump up and trade to the number six slot with Atlanta, if Johnny Football makes it past Oakland!

      Mmhm.  Somebody (maybe us, maybe Atl, maybe somebody else) wants the QBs taken early to push some other players down or to get a nice trade.

      Teddy Bridgewater met Tampa a few days ago... and now there are reports that he wasn't very impressive in some team's workout.Is he the one they want to slide down?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      LnL Love Love Love him. Tedford, however...

      Exactly. Tedford is the final say . If he says this isn't the guy to run my offense , they either have to listen to him or fire him.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 6677

      Fire him and bring back Gruden. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      It's amazing to me that I have to explain to another adult what a comparison is.

      maybe we are posting with children?Both miss the easy pass, run around excitedly, then make a great play. Both are polarizing, and are certainly leaders. Both are media darlings.  And neither has a prototype throwing motion.  Those are all comparisons.And for the record, tebow was very accurate in college.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2015

      #hypehypehype7f589384-85a7-4790-8bfc-b5a552b0715a_zpsd343eb0a.jpg

      Mad me laugh...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      LnL Love Love Love him. Tedford, however...

      Exactly. Tedford is the final say . If he says this isn't the guy to run my offense , they either have to listen to him or fire him.

      Good point, but are you sure tedford is not flexible?As far as we know, he could be telling them he can adjust to whomever they pick.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      I don’t think you could be this involved and not have a strong opinion. I imagine they’ll be a guy he loves and lobbies for. Who wouldn’t ? Everyone has their guy , and since its his offense his opinion should matter the most if you put egos aside.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      The average size of a “tedford qb” is 6’3 220.Manziel is still young and they may assume they can bulk him up. Not a single person in here knows if tedford loves or hates him, but we have news that lnl have interest. That's two of the three people involved in making that decision.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      The average size of a "tedford qb" is 6'3 220.Manziel is still young and they may assume they can bulk him up. Not a single person in here knows if tedford loves or hates him, but we have news that lnl have interest. That's two of the three people involved in making that decision.

      He's done growing and if he bulks up more he'll look like an oompa loompa.  He's not only not a Tedford QB, he's not an NFL QB. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2847

          And those comparing him to Russell Wilson are only seeing the surface. Yeah, physically they’re similar, but between the ears, they are total opposites…

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

          And those comparing him to Russell Wilson are only seeing the surface. Yeah, physically they're similar, but between the ears, they are total opposites...

      Wilson isn't really that smart.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      And this time of year is full of coaches and GMs putting out a line of crap about every damned player whose visits, or whose name comes up, telling anyone who listens what a great player that guy is… all those depending upon such comments need to have their heads examined. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I think this is a valid report.1. This guy that suggested the bucs "love" manziel has no bias.2. There is little reason to use the bucs as an attention getter. If he wanted to have people really respond, he would've suggested dallas or texans.3. What is the chance he picks the bucs name out of a hat? Sounds like he might have a friend in the bucs org.Now, I'm not saying this makes it certain they will draft him(as evans is tempting in our situation), but I think it was a potential "leak."

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

          And those comparing him to Russell Wilson are only seeing the surface. Yeah, physically they're similar, but between the ears, they are total opposites...

      Wilson isn't really that smart.

      could be wrong, but I think he graduated fro NC State in 3 years .... while playing baseball and football.  he's a bright kid.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

          And those comparing him to Russell Wilson are only seeing the surface. Yeah, physically they're similar, but between the ears, they are total opposites...

      Wilson isn't really that smart.

      could be wrong, but I think he graduated fro NC State in 3 years .... while playing baseball and football.  he's a bright kid.

      I was thinking in-game.From time to time, he acts like a college kid and his defense saves him. Now, if you put a on-field genius out there(like big manning), with that defense, they're potentially a 16-0 team.Wilson doesn't hurt to have around, but they could have just about any other starter in the league start for them, and still they would be a playoff contender. That defense could help sell anything.Basically, he's brad johnson to the tampa two glory days.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1455

      LnL Love Love Love him. Tedford, however...

      Exactly. Tedford is the final say . If he says this isn't the guy to run my offense , they either have to listen to him or fire him.

      Tedford will have input, nothing more and nothing less.A 1st time, 1st year NFL coordinator would never have the final say on anything as big as which QB to go with at #7 in the draft.You get the best QB for the team not the best for the coordinator because chances are that coordinator is gone in 2 or 3 years due to getting a HC job or being fired, the QB on the other hand should be there for well over a decade if you get the right one.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      LnL Love Love Love him. Tedford, however...

      Exactly. Tedford is the final say . If he says this isn't the guy to run my offense , they either have to listen to him or fire him.

      Tedford will have input, nothing more and nothing less.A 1st time, 1st year NFL coordinator would never have the final say on anything as big as which QB to go with at #7 in the draft.

      If you want to win he would. Ignoring who your OC says he needs as his QB would be the height of arrogance and stupidity. He's the only guy who knows for sure who will work the best in his system.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 218

      LnL Love Love Love him. Tedford, however...

      Exactly. Tedford is the final say . If he says this isn't the guy to run my offense , they either have to listen to him or fire him.

      Tedford will have input, nothing more and nothing less.A 1st time, 1st year NFL coordinator would never have the final say on anything as big as which QB to go with at #7 in the draft.You get the best QB for the team not the best for the coordinator because chances are that coordinator is gone in 2 or 3 years due to getting a HC job or being fired, the QB on the other hand should be there for well over a decade if you get the right one.

      You have a good point. If L&L feel very strongly about a QB, it won't matter what Tedford thinks.I think a Tedford-Manziel combination would be a tense but interesting marriage. Strict orthodoxy and breakdown rules vs. do whatever he thinks is best; usually you need the former, but the latter puts you over the top when used appropriately.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1455

      LnL Love Love Love him. Tedford, however...

      Exactly. Tedford is the final say . If he says this isn't the guy to run my offense , they either have to listen to him or fire him.

      Tedford will have input, nothing more and nothing less.A 1st time, 1st year NFL coordinator would never have the final say on anything as big as which QB to go with at #7 in the draft.

      If you want to win he would. Ignoring who your OC says he needs as his QB would be the height of arrogance and stupidity. He's the only guy who knows for sure who will work the best in his system.

      Still learning to read?It's clearly stated you take input from him but to give a guy who will likely be around 2 or 3 years final say when you hope to be around 10+ yourself is idiotic.As for him knowing for sure who will work best in his system, NOBODY knows that, the can have and educated guess at best.You think all those QB busts of years past weren't considered the best fits by people in the team that took them?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      They won’t pick a QB Tedford doesn’t want. They aren’t that stupid. Why u mad about it ?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

          And those comparing him to Russell Wilson are only seeing the surface. Yeah, physically they're similar, but between the ears, they are total opposites...

      Wilson isn't really that smart.

      could be wrong, but I think he graduated fro NC State in 3 years .... while playing baseball and football.  he's a bright kid.

      I was thinking in-game.From time to time, he acts like a college kid and his defense saves him. Now, if you put a on-field genius out there(like big manning), with that defense, they're potentially a 16-0 team.Wilson doesn't hurt to have around, but they could have just about any other starter in the league start for them, and still they would be a playoff contender. That defense could help sell anything.Basically, he's brad johnson to the tampa two glory days.

      #speechless

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    • Anonymous

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      http://cbsloc.al/1oRvAic

      smokescreen. Bucs want more picks. They are trying to hunt up a trading partner.

      I believe this is the most likely scenario and while risky, would be a geat move if pulled off successfully.

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    • Anonymous

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      Why speechless hate?He's slightly better than average, and has a very good defense to get him the ball back. Sounds brad johnsonish to me.Although, obviously, they are very different qb's. It's the circumstances and situations that make it similar.I think that is what we could expect with jff as well. I'm not disillusioned into believing any qb can put up numbers in the pro's like they did in college, but I do believe we could emulate what the seahawks have with a lovie defense and jff at the helm.

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    • Anonymous

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      I’m probably the last guy to become a Russell Wilson believer, but he’s extremely disciplined and smart and an asset to that team. He’s part of the reason they win, not in spite of him.

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    • Anonymous

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          And those comparing him to Russell Wilson are only seeing the surface. Yeah, physically they're similar, but between the ears, they are total opposites...

      Wilson isn't really that smart.

      could be wrong, but I think he graduated fro NC State in 3 years .... while playing baseball and football.  he's a bright kid.

      I was thinking in-game.From time to time, he acts like a college kid and his defense saves him. Now, if you put a on-field genius out there(like big manning), with that defense, they're potentially a 16-0 team.Wilson doesn't hurt to have around, but they could have just about any other starter in the league start for them, and still they would be a playoff contender. That defense could help sell anything.Basically, he's brad johnson to the tampa two glory days.

      #speechless

      LMFAO. Russell Wilson is the very definition of being cerebral in-game. Hate, just remember, this is the same fool who said that Brees wasn't as accurate as Manziel. Dude has taken his fanboi-ness to new heights.

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    • Anonymous

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      Why speechless hate?He's slightly better than average, and has a very good defense to get him the ball back. Sounds brad johnsonish to me.Although, obviously, they are very different qb's. It's the circumstances and situations that make it similar.I think that is what we could expect with jff as well. I'm not disillusioned into believing any qb can put up numbers in the pro's like they did in college, but I do believe we could emulate what the seahawks have with a lovie defense and jff at the helm.

      Speechless because i'm amazed at the amount of people that discount the impact Wilson has on that team. Wilson makes plays, Brad did not.

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    • Anonymous

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      I'm probably the last guy to become a Russell Wilson believer, but he's extremely disciplined and smart and an asset to that team. He's part of the reason they win, not in spite of him.

      Right? The only reason Wilson's "smarts" are being questioned is because the fanbois can stand to see an area where Russell exceeds Manziel.

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    • Anonymous

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      They won't pick a QB Tedford doesn't want. They aren't that stupid. Why u mad about it ?

      And there it is, your go to stupid comment "U mad bro?/Why u mad about it?"Like just because somebody doesn't agree with your idiotic comment they must be mad, it couldn't be that they see the big picture.Notice how you've gone from saying Tedford as OC would have final say (one of the dumber things I've read recently) to saying a QB he doesn't want.There a massive difference there, L&L will take his opinion on board, if he doesn't like a guy they will likely factor that in in a big way and then decide on the best guy for the Bucs, NOT Tedford, for the next 10+ years.Tedford will offer opinions but won't have any say, he could want 1 guy more than all the others but if L&L don't like them the pick won't be made.Answer me this, how many long term coordinators, that are't really old like LeBeau, can you name off the top of your head?I'll be generous and say you might be able to name 1, you know why? Because coordinators don't last long term in one spot, so why would you draft long term potential for short term results?

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    • Anonymous

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      Wilson’s a very good young QB and we’d be very lucky to have him. He may not put up crazy FF numbers but he’s a big part of their success. I watched a lot of their games with my best friend (avid seahawks fan… for the last two years, like every other seahawk fan I’ve ever met) and Wilson is money on third down and in clutch situations.

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    • Anonymous

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      Wilson's a very good young QB and we'd be very lucky to have him. He may not put up crazy FF numbers but he's a big part of their success. I watched a lot of their games with my best friend (avid seahawks fan... for the last two years, like every other seahawk fan I've ever met) and Wilson is money on third down and in clutch situations.

      I cant think of 10 QBs I'd rather have over him. Top 10 in my book for sure. Stats never tell the whole story. Russell Wilson has everything you want in a QB. Great character off the field, very cerebral on the field. Calm, cool, and collective. Can make all the throws. Good mobility.#completepackage

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    • Anonymous

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      Wilson's a very good young QB and we'd be very lucky to have him. He may not put up crazy FF numbers but he's a big part of their success. I watched a lot of their games with my best friend (avid seahawks fan... for the last two years, like every other seahawk fan I've ever met) and Wilson is money on third down and in clutch situations.

      I cant think of 10 QBs I'd rather have over him. Top 10 in my book for sure. Stats never tell the whole story. Russell Wilson has everything you want in a QB. Great character off the field, very cerebral on the field. Calm, cool, and collective. Can make all the throws. Good mobility.#completepackage

      and if age is part of the equation, that 10 becomes 3 or 4.

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    • Anonymous

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      Wilson's a very good young QB and we'd be very lucky to have him. He may not put up crazy FF numbers but he's a big part of their success. I watched a lot of their games with my best friend (avid seahawks fan... for the last two years, like every other seahawk fan I've ever met) and Wilson is money on third down and in clutch situations.

      I cant think of 10 QBs I'd rather have over him. Top 10 in my book for sure. Stats never tell the whole story. Russell Wilson has everything you want in a QB. Great character off the field, very cerebral on the field. Calm, cool, and collective. Can make all the throws. Good mobility.#completepackage

      I couldn't argue with this even if I wanted to. I was a big fan of Wilson's coming out in the draft.  Stable, professional, mobile, senior.  Really liked him for the value he would present in the draft pick invested.

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    • Anonymous

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      Don’t forget Lovie knew Tedford was his guy before he was even hired as a coach. I’m sure they’ve spent a lot of time before and after the hire analyzing the incoming QB class and who Tedford thought would be best fit for his offense.

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    • Anonymous

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      Why speechless hate?He's slightly better than average, and has a very good defense to get him the ball back. Sounds brad johnsonish to me.Although, obviously, they are very different qb's. It's the circumstances and situations that make it similar.I think that is what we could expect with jff as well. I'm not disillusioned into believing any qb can put up numbers in the pro's like they did in college, but I do believe we could emulate what the seahawks have with a lovie defense and jff at the helm.

      Speechless because i'm amazed at the amount of people that discount the impact Wilson has on that team. Wilson makes plays, Brad did not.

      I see. But to be fair, there were a couple of tosses that, if they had not happened, we wouldn't have made playoffs, let alone sb.I take nothing away from wilson, because you could say the same for him as brad. But like brad, he's slightly above average and gets a boost from a beast defense.

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    • Anonymous

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      Wilson is a solid QB but he’s also extremely overrated.  He is barely average as a pocket passer . Almost all his big plays come off improvisation , but combined with that sick defense and the fact he is smart enough to rarely make a mistake , those few big key plays he makes a game is all Seattle needs.

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    • Anonymous

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      He also has almost no one to throw the ball to and a horrible OL.

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    • Anonymous

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      Wilson is a solid QB but he's also extremely overrated.  He is barely average as a pocket passer . Almost all his big plays come off improvisation , but combined with that sick defense and the fact he is smart enough to rarely make a mistake , those few big key plays he makes a game is all Seattle needs.

      He truly fits their team perfectly. He doesn't have to have a Brady/Manning impact in every game, but he is very smart and completely knows his role. Him being overrated/underrated is hard to argue since that is based mostly on one's perception, but I will say that the implication that he was mostly carried by that team this year is absurd. Sure, the defense was the best in the league, but Wilson played phenomenal in crucial areas and fulfilled his job 100%. I'd kill to have him as our QB. Literally...someone find out if Pete has someone he would like to disappear...Also....

          And those comparing him to Russell Wilson are only seeing the surface. Yeah, physically they're similar, but between the ears, they are total opposites...

      To look at ^^this^^ statement and imply that Manziel is the cerebral QB between the ears, and that Wilson is on the opposite end of the spectrum and that he "acts like a college kid"...that is just incredibly stupid...btw, I agree with NDY's statement. They are on opposite ends...but stupidity ensued after his quote.

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    • Anonymous

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      Have you seen him when his 1st read is covered ?? He automatically rolls out or starts scambling . I believe it’s because he can’t see the field well at his height. A lot of times it works out for him anyways because he’s such an instinctive playmaker , but as a pocket passer ?? He’s complete Meh …

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    • Anonymous

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          And those comparing him to Russell Wilson are only seeing the surface. Yeah, physically they're similar, but between the ears, they are total opposites...

      Wilson isn't really that smart.

      could be wrong, but I think he graduated fro NC State in 3 years .... while playing baseball and football.  he's a bright kid.

      I was thinking in-game.From time to time, he acts like a college kid and his defense saves him. Now, if you put a on-field genius out there(like big manning), with that defense, they're potentially a 16-0 team.Wilson doesn't hurt to have around, but they could have just about any other starter in the league start for them, and still they would be a playoff contender. That defense could help sell anything.Basically, he's brad johnson to the tampa two glory days.

      smh

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    • Anonymous

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      Have you seen him when his 1st read is covered ?? He automatically rolls out or starts scambling . I believe it's because he can't see the field well at his height. A lot of times it works out for him anyways because he's such an instinctive playmaker , but as a pocket passer ?? He's complete Meh ...

      I gotta question the "automatically" part of that. I would say that it is more 50/50. Their offense runs a ton of quick strike passes when they choose to throw. They also have a lot of plays designed for moving the pocket and getting him on the move. The height most likely has something to do with that. I don't think its accurate of fair though to say that he never goes through reads or progressions. It happens, just not as much as it does with a guy who lives and breathes in the pocket like a Manning/Flacco/Ryan..etc. I will agree with the over point though that if you wanted him to be a stay in the pocket QB 100% of the time, then he would not be a top tier QB.

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    • Anonymous

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      Just saw Manziel doing a heisman move on a McDonalds commercial.SMDH.    Train wreck waiting to happen.

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    • Anonymous

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      Just saw Manziel doing a heisman move on a McDonalds commercial.SMDH.    Train wreck waiting to happen.

      Come on man! He's got swag!

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    • Anonymous

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      Why would you force a QB like Manziel to be a pocket passer? He is never going to be that type of guy

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    • Anonymous

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      Fair enough , Chace

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    • Anonymous

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      Why would you force a QB like Manziel to be a pocket passer? He is never going to be that type of guy

      Because many feel he isn't big enough or fast enough to be a scrambler consistently in the pros.  Every once in a while like Rodgers sure, but to do it consistently you either need to be fast enough to evade big hits (Vick earlier in his career) or big enough to absorb them (Newton).

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    • Anonymous

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      Almost all his big plays come off improvisation , but combined with that sick defense and the fact he is smart enough to rarely make a mistake , those few big key plays he makes a game is all Seattle needs.

      Sounds above average to me....especially for a 2nd year player. For argument's sake, what QB under 30 would you rank over Wilson?

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    • Anonymous

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      Pigeonhole the stats there on that question hate, but there are many qb’s I would take over wilson in the league. His advantage is his income. He makes crap right now. So yeah, right now, he's a baller (when you put everything in perspective).But I don't believe he's a top five qb, and he might not even make the top ten. Therefore, slightly better than average.

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    • Anonymous

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      Almost all his big plays come off improvisation , but combined with that sick defense and the fact he is smart enough to rarely make a mistake , those few big key plays he makes a game is all Seattle needs.

      Sounds above average to me....especially for a 2nd year player. For argument's sake, what QB under 30 would you rank over Wilson?

      I like Wilson a lot, but I'll rank Luck over him any day. He hasn't had the luxury of a great ground game and a ridiculously good defense. I'll take Luck over any other young qb out there.

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    • Anonymous

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      Almost all his big plays come off improvisation , but combined with that sick defense and the fact he is smart enough to rarely make a mistake , those few big key plays he makes a game is all Seattle needs.

      Sounds above average to me....especially for a 2nd year player. For argument's sake, what QB under 30 would you rank over Wilson?

      I like Wilson a lot, but I'll rank Luck over him any day. He hasn't had the luxury of a great ground game and a ridiculously good defense. I'll take Luck over any other young qb out there.

      I don't disagree.....who else?

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    • Anonymous

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      and for the record, Luck had a RB…..but because of politics, he didn’t get enuff play.

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    • Anonymous

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      and for the record, Luck had a RB.....but because of politics, he didn't get enuff play.

      He's the only one I'd put over Wilson. I'm not downing Wilson, I love the guy, just putting it out there, I expect Luck to become the leagues best qb (or close) for a long time.As far as rb, he's not had the blessing of a guy anywhere near Lynch's caliber.

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    • Anonymous

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      Almost all his big plays come off improvisation , but combined with that sick defense and the fact he is smart enough to rarely make a mistake , those few big key plays he makes a game is all Seattle needs.

      Sounds above average to me....especially for a 2nd year player. For argument's sake, what QB under 30 would you rank over Wilson?

      You can include age, but 30 shouldnt be the cut off. Everybody in the world would take Rodgers over Wilson even if they were thinking long term. So QBs that I'd take over Wilson besides, Brady, Manning, and Brees who may retire relatively soon:RodgersNewtonLuckKaep (maybe) id want access to all theiir games last season and study.Big BenRG3 could move above him after next season if he regains his rookie form, and confidence on the field, and they keep him healthy.and thats about it. Although I think Manziel and Bridgewater both have potential to be put ahead of him in two years.

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    • Anonymous

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      30 was just a # i threw out there….of course, Rodgers would be taken over anyone. Moving on......Newton? That's funny. Luck? fully agree. Kaep? not yet....he's got just as good a defense and run game but can't seem to seal the deal.RG3? No way in hell!!!Big Ben? Not me, not at 32.

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    • Anonymous

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      Why would you force a QB like Manziel to be a pocket passer? He is never going to be that type of guy

      Any smart coordinator wouldn't. It won't work. You gotta adapt something for him. Some sort of a system that incorporates some of what coordinators like Bevell, Roman, and even some of what Chud did with Cam in '12.

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    • Anonymous

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      30 was just a # i threw out there....of course, Rodgers would be taken over anyone. Moving on......Newton? That's funny. Luck? fully agree. Kaep? not yet....he's got just as good a defense and run game but can't seem to seal the deal.RG3? No way in hell!!!Big Ben? Not me, not at 32.

      If we are doing 30....meaning 30 and younger..there would only be 1 that I wouldn't hesitate on taking over WilsonLuck.There are two others not mentioned that I really like and would have a really hard time picking.Cutler...have always liked Cutler. He is going to ball out in year two of the Trestman regime.Flacco.

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    • Anonymous

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      30 was just a # i threw out there....of course, Rodgers would be taken over anyone. Moving on......Newton? That's funny. Luck? fully agree. Kaep? not yet....he's got just as good a defense and run game but can't seem to seal the deal.RG3? No way in hell!!!Big Ben? Not me, not at 32.

      Agreed on every instance... RGIII and Newton particularly, no friggin way.

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    • Anonymous

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      30 was just a # i threw out there....of course, Rodgers would be taken over anyone. Moving on......Newton? That's funny. Luck? fully agree. Kaep? not yet....he's got just as good a defense and run game but can't seem to seal the deal.RG3? No way in hell!!!Big Ben? Not me, not at 32.

      If we are doing 30....meaning 30 and younger..there would only be 1 that I wouldn't hesitate on taking over WilsonLuck.There are two others not mentioned that I really like and would have a really hard time picking.Cutler...have always liked Cutler. He is going to ball out in year two of the Trestman regime.Flacco.

      Cutler can sling it as good as anyone but seems to be missing something. Flacco? Hmm.....he doesn't do it for me either. Seems a lil too 'me first' for my liking.

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    • Anonymous

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      Kaep? not yet....he's got just as good a defense and run game but can't seem to seal the deal.

      Just as good of a defense? The Seahawks defense was far and away the best defense in the league last year and you could make the argument that it was one of the best of all time. Saying the 49ers D is just as good is absurd.For guys under 30 I'd take over Wilson, I'd go with Rodgers, Luck and Matt Ryan.I think him and Kap are a wash.If Foles has another year like last year, I'd take him over Wilson as well.

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    • Anonymous

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      Kaep? not yet....he's got just as good a defense and run game but can't seem to seal the deal.

      Just as good of a defense? The Seahawks defense was far and away the best defense in the league last year and you could make the argument that it was one of the best of all time. Saying the 49ers D is just as good is absurd.

      Seahawks 1st in pts allowed, 9ers 3rd

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    • Anonymous

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      30 was just a # i threw out there....of course, Rodgers would be taken over anyone. Moving on......Newton? That's funny. Luck? fully agree. Kaep? not yet....he's got just as good a defense and run game but can't seem to seal the deal.RG3? No way in hell!!!Big Ben? Not me, not at 32.

      Agreed on every instance... RGIII and Newton particularly, no friggin way.

      Just my opinion. I didnt say RG3 now. But if he does return to his rookie form than yes, he's better than Wilson. If Newton was on the seahawks itd be a nightmare for every team in the NFL for the next 8 or so years. and he'd also have a SB ring if he played for them last year. Hell the Panthers went pretty far last year so I really dont see how its funny that I said Newton. In three years Newton has passed for over 11,000 yards with 64 TDs and rushed for over 2000 yards with 28 rushing TDs. so in Only 3 years at age 24 he's accounted for more than 13000 yards and 92 TDs. You guys think its funny that I think Cam Newton is good?

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    • Anonymous

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      Absurd would be comparing the Bucs D to the Seahawks. Saying that San Frans defense is at nearly the same level as Seattle’s really isn’t all that ridiculous.

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    • Anonymous

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      Kaep? not yet....he's got just as good a defense and run game but can't seem to seal the deal.

      Just as good of a defense? The Seahawks defense was far and away the best defense in the league last year and you could make the argument that it was one of the best of all time. Saying the 49ers D is just as good is absurd.

      Seahawks 1st in pts allowed, 9ers 3rd

      6 more sacks, 10 more turnovers and 40 less yards per game allowed... The 49ers defense is very good, don't get me wrong, but the Seahawks defense was easily the best in the league last year. To put the 9ers D on the same level as Seattle's is a smack in the face to the Seahawks.

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    • Anonymous

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      30 was just a # i threw out there....of course, Rodgers would be taken over anyone. Moving on......Newton? That's funny. Luck? fully agree. Kaep? not yet....he's got just as good a defense and run game but can't seem to seal the deal.RG3? No way in hell!!!Big Ben? Not me, not at 32.

      Agreed on every instance... RGIII and Newton particularly, no friggin way.

      Just my opinion. I didnt say RG3 now. But if he does return to his rookie form than yes, he's better than Wilson. If Newton was on the seahawks itd be a nightmare for every team in the NFL for the next 8 or so years. and he'd also have a SB ring if he played for them last year. Hell the Panthers went pretty far last year so I really dont see how its funny that I said Newton. In three years Newton has passed for over 11,000 yards with 64 TDs and rushed for over 2000 yards with 28 rushing TDs. so in Only 3 years at age 24 he's accounted for more than 13000 yards and 92 TDs. You guys think its funny that I think Cam Newton is good?

      +1.The only reason I didn't put Cam ahead of Wilson is because of his ego. If he had Wilson's attitude, I'd 100% take him over Wilson.

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    • Anonymous

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      Kaep? not yet....he's got just as good a defense and run game but can't seem to seal the deal.

      Just as good of a defense? The Seahawks defense was far and away the best defense in the league last year and you could make the argument that it was one of the best of all time. Saying the 49ers D is just as good is absurd.

      Seahawks 1st in pts allowed, 9ers 3rd

      6 more sacks, 10 more turnovers and 40 less yards per game allowed... The 49ers defense is very good, don't get me wrong, but the Seahawks defense was easily the best in the league last year. To put the 9ers D on the same level as Seattle's is a smack in the face to the Seahawks.

      Mere semantics. Kap has just as much talent around him as Wilson....both offensively and defensively, and he's failed to seal the deal. Those are my thoughts....and i'm sticking with them.

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    • Anonymous

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      Absurd would be comparing the Bucs D to the Seahawks. Saying that San Frans defense is at nearly the same level as Seattle's really isn't all that ridiculous.

      Considering the Seahawks D was better or the same in literally every single defensive category, I stand by my opinion that it is ridiculous to say that they are on the same level.

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    • Anonymous

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      Why is Newton so funny ? That one is certainly debatable .

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    • Anonymous

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      Russell Wilson is a good QB.  He is not the reason the Seahawks are successful. He is part of the reason.  If you think he has as much impact on the Seahawks success as their defense than you should stop commenting on here as you know very little about football.  We are being sold a bill of goods that narrates “defense is not as important with all of the rule changes”  – Hogwash, it’s become more important.  Franchise QBs rarely come along.  Keep building the D and the rest will follow.

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    • Anonymous

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      Russell Wilson is a good QB.  He is not the reason the Seahawks are successful. He is part of the reason.  If you think he has as much impact on the Seahawks success as their defense than you should stop commenting on here as you know very little about football.  We are being sold a bill of goods that narrates "defense is not as important with all of the rule changes"  - Hogwash, it's become more important.  Franchise QBs rarely come along.  Keep building the D and the rest will follow.

      Hard to argue with this...

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    • Anonymous

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      Kaep? not yet....he's got just as good a defense and run game but can't seem to seal the deal.

      Just as good of a defense? The Seahawks defense was far and away the best defense in the league last year and you could make the argument that it was one of the best of all time. Saying the 49ers D is just as good is absurd.

      Seahawks 1st in pts allowed, 9ers 3rd

      6 more sacks, 10 more turnovers and 40 less yards per game allowed... The 49ers defense is very good, don't get me wrong, but the Seahawks defense was easily the best in the league last year. To put the 9ers D on the same level as Seattle's is a smack in the face to the Seahawks.

      Mere semantics. Kap has just as much talent around him as Wilson....both offensively and defensively, and he's failed to seal the deal. Those are my thoughts....and i'm sticking with them.

      Damn right he does. Hell Kap also has exponentially more help on offense.

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    • Anonymous

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      Russell Wilson is a good QB.  He is not the reason the Seahawks are successful. He is part of the reason.  If you think he has as much impact on the Seahawks success as their defense than you should stop commenting on here as you know very little about football.  We are being sold a bill of goods that narrates "defense is not as important with all of the rule changes"  - Hogwash, it's become more important.  Franchise QBs rarely come along.  Keep building the D and the rest will follow.

      The thing is you can't just go out and get a Russell Wilson whenever you decide to. When you have the opportunity to get him, you get him and don't worry about other positions.

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    • Anonymous

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      I don’t think it’s funny that people think Newton is good, he’s certainly a good player. He has a really good defense going for him too and until this eyar had weapons similar to what Wilson had (good TE, a good #1 receiver) and has even had a better Oline. However Newton didn’t put it all together really until last year as far as winning and he’s still not as clutch as Wilson. I’d take Wilson over him because I think he’s a better teammate and stronger in the clutch.

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    • Anonymous

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      I don't think it's funny that people think Newton is good, he's certainly a good player. He has a really good defense going for him too and until this eyar had weapons similar to what Wilson had (good TE, a good #1 receiver) and has even had a better Oline. However Newton didn't put it all together really until last year as far as winning and he's still not as clutch as Wilson. I'd take Wilson over him because I think he's a better teammate and stronger in the clutch.

      Newton had his worst year statistically in 2013, though not by that much. He didn't put anything "together". He's been basically the same players he's been his entire career. He just had a horrible defense his first two years.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      from a statistical perspective, would it be fair to say that Newton played a more conservative? In other words, are his stats a reflection of the team tightening the reigns?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      from a statistical perspective, would it be fair to say that Newton played a more conservative? In other words, are his stats a reflection of the team tightening the reigns?

      Which is the very thing Glennon got killed on this board for, doing it as a rookie.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      from a statistical perspective, would it be fair to say that Newton played a more conservative? In other words, are his stats a reflection of the team tightening the reigns?

      His offensive coordinator is now Mike Shula, if that tells you anything.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4057

      Russell Wilson is a good QB.  He is not the reason the Seahawks are successful. He is part of the reason.  If you think he has as much impact on the Seahawks success as their defense than you should stop commenting on here as you know very little about football.  We are being sold a bill of goods that narrates "defense is not as important with all of the rule changes"  - Hogwash, it's become more important.  Franchise QBs rarely come along.  Keep building the D and the rest will follow.

      QB's are a precondition to winning. Nothing else matters because if you do not have a QB you aren't getting near the playoffs on a regular basis. If you have questions about that look at the top of the draft year in and year in out and notice the consistent gap on all those teams. Here you can happily cherry pick anomalies to try and make you feel better but deep down you know you are wrong. It isn't about getting a hall of famer. McNabb isn't a hall of famer -- if there is a just god -- but the Beagles were strong contenders all the time because he was good enough. Since 2002 the Fish have 7 top 10 defensive finishes and have exactly one playoff appearance during that time - and not coincidentally their best offensive year during that stretch. Wilson in his two years has a QBR of over 100 both years. 90 is pro bowl level play, 100 is HoF level play. He's not just been good, he's been phenomenal so I could actually just run with the you do need a great QB argument since Wilson is great. His greatness, like Aikman, is masked by the fact that he is so efficient at his job he doesn't have to circus it up and get crazy numbers - and yes he has a good defense that means that once he builds up a 10 point lead he's gonna be able to sit on...but someone had to get the 10 point lead for the defense to sit on.Go take a gander at the playoffs and notice something really odd, teams with good QB play get there and teams without don't. Once you get to the playoffs, pretty much everyone has a QB and so now all the other factors come into play more strongly. It is why those Dungy Bucs got bounced in the playoffs so often because no matter how good our defense was, and it was really good, you can't beat Favre and McNabb with Dilfer and King very often. QB's aren't the only thing but until you have one everything else is irrelevant.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      from a statistical perspective, would it be fair to say that Newton played a more conservative? In other words, are his stats a reflection of the team tightening the reigns?

      His offensive coordinator is now Mike Shula, if that tells you anything.

      Most contending football teams pace from the defensive side of the ball.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      from a statistical perspective, would it be fair to say that Newton played a more conservative? In other words, are his stats a reflection of the team tightening the reigns?

      Which is the very thing Glennon got killed on this board for, doing it as a rookie.

      Conservative for Cam Newton is different than Glennon. When Newton became more conservative, he dropped from the #10 YPA in 2011 and #3 in 2012 to #15 in 2013. The only thing we've seen from "conservative" Mike Glennon is his #37 YPA in 2013. If we use the data from Newton that says a player can jump around 10 spots between playing conservative and not conservative, than would mean when Glennon is "aggressive", he'd have a YPA around #25, which still sucks.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      from a statistical perspective, would it be fair to say that Newton played a more conservative? In other words, are his stats a reflection of the team tightening the reigns?

      His offensive coordinator is now Mike Shula, if that tells you anything.

      right and so I guess the answer is likely a yes and probably dont even need stats to say that, lol. I was just wondering if things like YPA and total yards were down, maybe less running, etc.  Thanks

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Russell Wilson is a good QB.  He is not the reason the Seahawks are successful. He is part of the reason.  If you think he has as much impact on the Seahawks success as their defense than you should stop commenting on here as you know very little about football.  We are being sold a bill of goods that narrates "defense is not as important with all of the rule changes"  - Hogwash, it's become more important.  Franchise QBs rarely come along.  Keep building the D and the rest will follow.

      QB's are a precondition to winning. Nothing else matters because if you do not have a QB you aren't getting near the playoffs on a regular basis. If you have questions about that look at the top of the draft year in and year in out and notice the consistent gap on all those teams. Here you can happily cherry pick anomalies to try and make you feel better but deep down you know you are wrong. It isn't about getting a hall of famer. McNabb isn't a hall of famer -- if there is a just god -- but the Beagles were strong contenders all the time because he was good enough. Since 2002 the Fish have 7 top 10 defensive finishes and have exactly one playoff appearance during that time - and not coincidentally their best offensive year during that stretch. Wilson in his two years has a QBR of over 100 both years. 90 is pro bowl level play, 100 is HoF level play. He's not just been good, he's been phenomenal so I could actually just run with the you do need a great QB argument since Wilson is great. His greatness, like Aikman, is masked by the fact that he is so efficient at his job he doesn't have to circus it up and get crazy numbers - and yes he has a good defense that means that once he builds up a 10 point lead he's gonna be able to sit on...but someone had to get the 10 point lead for the defense to sit on.Go take a gander at the playoffs and notice something really odd, teams with good QB play get there and teams without don't. Once you get to the playoffs, pretty much everyone has a QB and so now all the other factors come into play more strongly. It is why those Dungy Bucs got bounced in the playoffs so often because no matter how good our defense was, and it was really good, you can't beat Favre and McNabb with Dilfer and King very often. QB's aren't the only thing but until you have one everything else is irrelevant.

      Strong points.I should rephrase this, until you have defense, nothing else matters in Tampa.  We are not going to reinvent ourselves in Tampa.  Like Pittsburgh, Baltimore and the Bears, our franchise DNA will always be tied to defensive success. I dont want to sound like an all or nothing type guy, but I dont want to be the Eagles, Chargers or Falcons - teams that compete but never close it out.  I'm sure it's nice to compete every year but it would drive me nuts to compete and never close the deal.  I want us to think about long term success and in Tampa, that starts with defense.  We may already have a long term QB on our team.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      from a statistical perspective, would it be fair to say that Newton played a more conservative? In other words, are his stats a reflection of the team tightening the reigns?

      You could make the argument that at times during the season that he went conservative....but there were other times where he was very up and down. I understand the appeal with Cam. He probably is the most physically gifted QB in the league. Absolute cannon for an arm, impressive mobility and toughness, etc. If he ever got it down between the ears, he would win multiple SBs. All the talent is there for him. The key is going to be for him to clearly define what his role is on their team and just go out and do his damn job. He isn't going to be able to be a Manning/Brady/Rodgers/Brees-type guy anytime soon. That takes years and years to get to a level of football acumen to be able to command an offense in such a way. Russell Wilson and Flacco though have proved the last two years that you can be under that level and still play well enough to help get your team to where they need to go. You just have to be able to make the clutch plays when your team needs them the most, which is what Flacco and Wilson did in their championship runs.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      from a statistical perspective, would it be fair to say that Newton played a more conservative? In other words, are his stats a reflection of the team tightening the reigns?

      Which is the very thing Glennon got killed on this board for, doing it as a rookie.

      Conservative for Cam Newton is different than Glennon. When Newton became more conservative, he dropped from the #10 YPA in 2011 and #3 in 2012 to #15 in 2013. The only thing we've seen from "conservative" Mike Glennon is his #37 YPA in 2013. If we use the data from Newton that says a player can jump around 10 spots between playing conservative and not conservative, than would mean when Glennon is "aggressive", he'd have a YPA around #25, which still sucks.

      Different offense.  While our offensive line will probably be worse this coming year (go ahead and kill me for this), or offensive skill players should be healthy and we should utilize more of them in Tedford's offense.  Glennon doesn't need to be more "aggressive" on offense, he needs an offense that actually has players around him outside of just one stud WR.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4057

      Russell Wilson is a good QB.  He is not the reason the Seahawks are successful. He is part of the reason.  If you think he has as much impact on the Seahawks success as their defense than you should stop commenting on here as you know very little about football.  We are being sold a bill of goods that narrates "defense is not as important with all of the rule changes"  - Hogwash, it's become more important.  Franchise QBs rarely come along.  Keep building the D and the rest will follow.

      QB's are a precondition to winning. Nothing else matters because if you do not have a QB you aren't getting near the playoffs on a regular basis. If you have questions about that look at the top of the draft year in and year in out and notice the consistent gap on all those teams. Here you can happily cherry pick anomalies to try and make you feel better but deep down you know you are wrong. It isn't about getting a hall of famer. McNabb isn't a hall of famer -- if there is a just god -- but the Beagles were strong contenders all the time because he was good enough. Since 2002 the Fish have 7 top 10 defensive finishes and have exactly one playoff appearance during that time - and not coincidentally their best offensive year during that stretch. Wilson in his two years has a QBR of over 100 both years. 90 is pro bowl level play, 100 is HoF level play. He's not just been good, he's been phenomenal so I could actually just run with the you do need a great QB argument since Wilson is great. His greatness, like Aikman, is masked by the fact that he is so efficient at his job he doesn't have to circus it up and get crazy numbers - and yes he has a good defense that means that once he builds up a 10 point lead he's gonna be able to sit on...but someone had to get the 10 point lead for the defense to sit on.Go take a gander at the playoffs and notice something really odd, teams with good QB play get there and teams without don't. Once you get to the playoffs, pretty much everyone has a QB and so now all the other factors come into play more strongly. It is why those Dungy Bucs got bounced in the playoffs so often because no matter how good our defense was, and it was really good, you can't beat Favre and McNabb with Dilfer and King very often. QB's aren't the only thing but until you have one everything else is irrelevant.

      Strong points.I should rephrase this, until you have defense, nothing else matters in Tampa.  We are not going to reinvent ourselves in Tampa.  Like Pittsburgh, Baltimore and the Bears, our franchise DNA will always be tied to defensive success. I dont want to sound like an all or nothing type guy, but I dont want to be the Eagles, Chargers or Falcons - teams that compete but never close it out.  I'm sure it's nice to compete every year but it would drive me nuts to compete and never close the deal.  I want us to think about long term success and in Tampa, that starts with defense.  We may already have a long term QB on our team.

      Franchise DNA is silly. PIT was a ground and pound team but their only success has been via QB recently. NO was a running team until Brees. GB is now a passing team and their DNA was all student body left and right. You are what you are right now. It isn't all or nothing. Once you get into the playoffs it becomes a sort of a lottery. You want to take as many shots into that post season as you can. Defense isn't a stopper. Half the super bowl winners in the last 8 years have been bottom half of the league in defense.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Russell Wilson is a good QB.  He is not the reason the Seahawks are successful. He is part of the reason.  If you think he has as much impact on the Seahawks success as their defense than you should stop commenting on here as you know very little about football.  We are being sold a bill of goods that narrates "defense is not as important with all of the rule changes"  - Hogwash, it's become more important.  Franchise QBs rarely come along.  Keep building the D and the rest will follow.

      QB's are a precondition to winning. Nothing else matters because if you do not have a QB you aren't getting near the playoffs on a regular basis. If you have questions about that look at the top of the draft year in and year in out and notice the consistent gap on all those teams. Here you can happily cherry pick anomalies to try and make you feel better but deep down you know you are wrong. It isn't about getting a hall of famer. McNabb isn't a hall of famer -- if there is a just god -- but the Beagles were strong contenders all the time because he was good enough. Since 2002 the Fish have 7 top 10 defensive finishes and have exactly one playoff appearance during that time - and not coincidentally their best offensive year during that stretch. Wilson in his two years has a QBR of over 100 both years. 90 is pro bowl level play, 100 is HoF level play. He's not just been good, he's been phenomenal so I could actually just run with the you do need a great QB argument since Wilson is great. His greatness, like Aikman, is masked by the fact that he is so efficient at his job he doesn't have to circus it up and get crazy numbers - and yes he has a good defense that means that once he builds up a 10 point lead he's gonna be able to sit on...but someone had to get the 10 point lead for the defense to sit on.Go take a gander at the playoffs and notice something really odd, teams with good QB play get there and teams without don't. Once you get to the playoffs, pretty much everyone has a QB and so now all the other factors come into play more strongly. It is why those Dungy Bucs got bounced in the playoffs so often because no matter how good our defense was, and it was really good, you can't beat Favre and McNabb with Dilfer and King very often. QB's aren't the only thing but until you have one everything else is irrelevant.

      Strong points.I should rephrase this, until you have defense, nothing else matters in Tampa.  We are not going to reinvent ourselves in Tampa.  Like Pittsburgh, Baltimore and the Bears, our franchise DNA will always be tied to defensive success. I dont want to sound like an all or nothing type guy, but I dont want to be the Eagles, Chargers or Falcons - teams that compete but never close it out.  I'm sure it's nice to compete every year but it would drive me nuts to compete and never close the deal.  I want us to think about long term success and in Tampa, that starts with defense.  We may already have a long term QB on our team.

      Franchise DNA is silly. PIT was a ground and pound team but their only success has been via QB recently. NO was a running team until Brees. GB is now a passing team and their DNA was all student body left and right. You are what you are right now. It isn't all or nothing. Once you get into the playoffs it becomes a sort of a lottery. You want to take as many shots into that post season as you can. Defense isn't a stopper. Half the super bowl winners in the last 8 years have been bottom half of the league in defense.

      Not true.  Maybe in a category or two but not overall.  Say what you want, our franchise DNA is why Lovie is here and not Jay Gruden. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Lovie is here because the Bucs ownership just tried two lameass experiments that absolutely blew up in their faces. First they tried to get the player friendly type HC who some were saying was the next Tomlin. Next they went the college coach route and felt the need to get a more authoritative coach to clean up Rah’s mess. They were done with trying to do against the grain and attempting a more dynamic option. Lovie was the most successful coach out there who would realistically coach again. He commands respect and gives instant credibility to the franchise. I think him being a defensive minded coach was really a lesser factor to the main factor of wanting to get a guy who had been a HC previously with moderate/good success.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      Lovie is here because the Bucs ownership just tried two lameass experiments that absolutely blew up in their faces. First they tried to get the player friendly type HC who some were saying was the next Tomlin. Next they went the college coach route and felt the need to get a more authoritative coach to clean up Rah's mess. They were done with trying to do against the grain and attempting a more dynamic option. Lovie was the most successful coach out there who would realistically coach again. He commands respect and gives instant credibility to the franchise. I think him being a defensive minded coach was really a lesser factor to the main factor of wanting to get a guy who had been a HC previously with moderate/good success.

      Agreed.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 830

      I don't think it's funny that people think Newton is good, he's certainly a good player. He has a really good defense going for him too and until this eyar had weapons similar to what Wilson had (good TE, a good #1 receiver) and has even had a better Oline. However Newton didn't put it all together really until last year as far as winning and he's still not as clutch as Wilson. I'd take Wilson over him because I think he's a better teammate and stronger in the clutch.

      Newton had his worst year statistically in 2013, though not by that much. He didn't put anything "together". He's been basically the same players he's been his entire career. He just had a horrible defense his first two years.

      Well lukily for Cam they got rid of Steve Smith, Tedd Ginn and Brandon Lafell and signed Tiquan Underwood and J. Cotchery to replace them. No excuses for Cam this year with all the weapons they are surrounding him with.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Lovie is here because the Bucs ownership just tried two lameass experiments that absolutely blew up in their faces. First they tried to get the player friendly type HC who some were saying was the next Tomlin. Next they went the college coach route and felt the need to get a more authoritative coach to clean up Rah's mess. They were done with trying to do against the grain and attempting a more dynamic option. Lovie was the most successful coach out there who would realistically coach again. He commands respect and gives instant credibility to the franchise. I think him being a defensive minded coach was really a lesser factor to the main factor of wanting to get a guy who had been a HC previously with moderate/good success.

      Agreed.

      Lovie is directly tied to the origins of our great defensive foundation.  This is no mistake.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      Lovie is here because the Bucs ownership just tried two lameass experiments that absolutely blew up in their faces. First they tried to get the player friendly type HC who some were saying was the next Tomlin. Next they went the college coach route and felt the need to get a more authoritative coach to clean up Rah's mess. They were done with trying to do against the grain and attempting a more dynamic option. Lovie was the most successful coach out there who would realistically coach again. He commands respect and gives instant credibility to the franchise. I think him being a defensive minded coach was really a lesser factor to the main factor of wanting to get a guy who had been a HC previously with moderate/good success.

      Agreed.

      Lovie is directly tied to the origins of our great defensive foundation.  This is no mistake.

      IMO all it means is the Glazers already had an "in" with him. They knew he was a good coach, they knew he was a good person, and he was already familiar with working for them. The Glazers were going with a known commodity and were not going to leave it to chance to hire another clown based on a hunch or the recommendation of an outsider.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      I don't think it's funny that people think Newton is good, he's certainly a good player. He has a really good defense going for him too and until this eyar had weapons similar to what Wilson had (good TE, a good #1 receiver) and has even had a better Oline. However Newton didn't put it all together really until last year as far as winning and he's still not as clutch as Wilson. I'd take Wilson over him because I think he's a better teammate and stronger in the clutch.

      Newton had his worst year statistically in 2013, though not by that much. He didn't put anything "together". He's been basically the same players he's been his entire career. He just had a horrible defense his first two years.

      Well lukily for Cam they got rid of Steve Smith, Tedd Ginn and Brandon Lafell and signed Tiquan Underwood and J. Cotchery to replace them. No excuses for Cam this year with all the weapons they are surrounding him with.

      You're kidding right?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Lovie is here because the Bucs ownership just tried two lameass experiments that absolutely blew up in their faces. First they tried to get the player friendly type HC who some were saying was the next Tomlin. Next they went the college coach route and felt the need to get a more authoritative coach to clean up Rah's mess. They were done with trying to do against the grain and attempting a more dynamic option. Lovie was the most successful coach out there who would realistically coach again. He commands respect and gives instant credibility to the franchise. I think him being a defensive minded coach was really a lesser factor to the main factor of wanting to get a guy who had been a HC previously with moderate/good success.

      Agreed.

      Lovie is directly tied to the origins of our great defensive foundation.  This is no mistake.

      IMO all it means is the Glazers already had an "in" with him. They knew he was a good coach, they knew he was a good person, and he was already familiar with working for them. The Glazers were going with a known commodity and were not going to leave it to chance to hire another clown based on a hunch or the recommendation of an outsider.

      Yup. This was a lot less about the nostalgia of great defense, and more about getting a guy who they know, trust, and know will be a competent HC.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      I don't think it's funny that people think Newton is good, he's certainly a good player. He has a really good defense going for him too and until this eyar had weapons similar to what Wilson had (good TE, a good #1 receiver) and has even had a better Oline. However Newton didn't put it all together really until last year as far as winning and he's still not as clutch as Wilson. I'd take Wilson over him because I think he's a better teammate and stronger in the clutch.

      Newton had his worst year statistically in 2013, though not by that much. He didn't put anything "together". He's been basically the same players he's been his entire career. He just had a horrible defense his first two years.

      Well lukily for Cam they got rid of Steve Smith, Tedd Ginn and Brandon Lafell and signed Tiquan Underwood and J. Cotchery to replace them. No excuses for Cam this year with all the weapons they are surrounding him with.

      You're kidding right?

      Of course he's kidding.  The Panthers have made dumber off-season moves than us.  I'll say it again, you dont get better by getting worse.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      I don't think it's funny that people think Newton is good, he's certainly a good player. He has a really good defense going for him too and until this eyar had weapons similar to what Wilson had (good TE, a good #1 receiver) and has even had a better Oline. However Newton didn't put it all together really until last year as far as winning and he's still not as clutch as Wilson. I'd take Wilson over him because I think he's a better teammate and stronger in the clutch.

      Newton had his worst year statistically in 2013, though not by that much. He didn't put anything "together". He's been basically the same players he's been his entire career. He just had a horrible defense his first two years.

      Well lukily for Cam they got rid of Steve Smith, Tedd Ginn and Brandon Lafell and signed Tiquan Underwood and J. Cotchery to replace them. No excuses for Cam this year with all the weapons they are surrounding him with.

      You're kidding right?

      Of course he's kidding.  The Panthers have made dumber off-season moves than us.  I'll say it again, you dont get better by getting worse.

      cap moves though, weren't they

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      The Steve Smith move was more of a, “we are just kinda fed up with his BS”-type move.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      The Steve Smith move was more of a, "we are just kinda fed up with his BS"-type move.

      lol....

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 176

      I have been saying this for a few months….Manziel will be the guy…..they are NOT impressed with BridgewaterManziel is Lovie's Jay Cuter....Please now people stop hating on the Bucs New QB

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Russell Wilson is a good QB.  He is not the reason the Seahawks are successful. He is part of the reason.  If you think he has as much impact on the Seahawks success as their defense than you should stop commenting on here as you know very little about football.  We are being sold a bill of goods that narrates "defense is not as important with all of the rule changes"  - Hogwash, it's become more important.  Franchise QBs rarely come along.  Keep building the D and the rest will follow.

      QB's are a precondition to winning. Nothing else matters because if you do not have a QB you aren't getting near the playoffs on a regular basis. If you have questions about that look at the top of the draft year in and year in out and notice the consistent gap on all those teams. Here you can happily cherry pick anomalies to try and make you feel better but deep down you know you are wrong. It isn't about getting a hall of famer. McNabb isn't a hall of famer -- if there is a just god -- but the Beagles were strong contenders all the time because he was good enough. Since 2002 the Fish have 7 top 10 defensive finishes and have exactly one playoff appearance during that time - and not coincidentally their best offensive year during that stretch. Wilson in his two years has a QBR of over 100 both years. 90 is pro bowl level play, 100 is HoF level play. He's not just been good, he's been phenomenal so I could actually just run with the you do need a great QB argument since Wilson is great. His greatness, like Aikman, is masked by the fact that he is so efficient at his job he doesn't have to circus it up and get crazy numbers - and yes he has a good defense that means that once he builds up a 10 point lead he's gonna be able to sit on...but someone had to get the 10 point lead for the defense to sit on.Go take a gander at the playoffs and notice something really odd, teams with good QB play get there and teams without don't. Once you get to the playoffs, pretty much everyone has a QB and so now all the other factors come into play more strongly. It is why those Dungy Bucs got bounced in the playoffs so often because no matter how good our defense was, and it was really good, you can't beat Favre and McNabb with Dilfer and King very often. QB's aren't the only thing but until you have one everything else is irrelevant.

      Preach!!!!!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276