Viewing 25 reply threads

  • Author

    Posts

    • CalicoJackLV

      Participant
      Post count: 8517

      http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bucs/gleaning-insight-from-bears-drafts-under-lovie-smith/2178026We'll preface this by saying that Lovie Smith isn't the Bucs general manager, just as he wasn't when he was head coach in Chicago, but he certainly had a level of influence, as he does now. With that in mind, we looked back over the nine drafts the Bears had with Lovie Smith as head coach (from 2004-12) to get a sense for what his personal history is with draft picks and priorities. A few notes ...-- Smith has rarely picked as high as the Bucs will at No. 7 overall. Chicago only had six first-round picks in his nine years -- Bears traded out of the first round in '06, getting a third-rounder to slide down 16 spots, and traded away their '09 and '10 first-rounders (and more) to get Jay Cutler from Denver. So of those six first-round picks, only one -- running back Cedric Benson, who went fourth overall in 2005 -- was higher than 14th overall. -- How'd those first-rounders turn out? Benson was unremarkable in three seasons with the Bears, only got to 1,000 yards later with Bengals. DT Tommie Harris (2004, 14th) was a starter for Smith's first seven seasons in Chicago, and OT Chris Williams (2008, 14th) was limited by injuries, started at guard and tackle and eventually cut in 2012. You know Gabe Carimi (29th, 2011) as the guy the Bucs gave up a sixth-rounder for last year and then cut after using him primarly as a sixth lineman. Tight end Greg Olsen (31st, 2007) had 20 touchdowns in four years with the Bears, averaging just under 50 catches a year, and that leaves DE/LB Shea McClellan, the 19th pick in 2012 -- started 10 games last year, has 6.5 sacks in two seasons.-- So four of his six first-round picks were used on offense, but overall, 38 of his 68 draft picks were on the defensive side, as well as 14 of his 25 picks in the top three rounds. You'd expect a defensive lean from a coach with Smith's background, but you can also pick up some positional trends ...-- Highest a Lovie-coached team has ever drafted a quarterback? That would be 106th -- mid-4th round -- which is where they drafted Kyle Orton in 2005. When you talk about how great QBs can be found late in the draft, I'll counter with the other three passers Smith has on his record: Nate Enderle, Dan LeFevour and Craig Krenzel, all taken in the fifth or sixth rounds.-- Offensive line? We mentioned Williams and Carimi, neither particularly successful, and it's worth noting that of the nine offensive linemen drafted under Lovie in Chicago, five of them -- more than half -- were seventh-rounders. Williams and Carimi were the only o-linemen taken in the first three rounds in his nine years, so he'll transition easily to the Bucs, who haven't drafted any offensive linemen since 2009.-- All that talk about landing a receiver in the second or third round? That's right up Smith's alley -- Bears took five receivers in the second or third rounds while he was in Chicago. That includes Alshon Jeffery, who now looks like a stellar pick, but the rest is a mixed bag. You had Earl Bennett (12 TDs in six years) and Bernard Berrian (11 TDs in 2006-07), but also Mark Bradley (4 starts, 4 TDs in 4 seasons) and ... Juaquin Iglesias, who as many career catches as Julio Iglesias ... zero.-- Defensive tackle? No position consistently goes higher in the draft for Lovie teams -- Harris was a first-rounder, and there were two second-rounders and three third-rounders in his nine drafts. Again, we're not saying they drafted well -- Tank Johnson (2004) had nine sacks in three years, and Stephen Paea (2011) has started the last two years, but ... there's also Jarron Gilbert (2009), who might remember for being able to jump out of a swimming pool, but also had one tackle in his only season in Chicago. Dusty Dvoracek (2006) had one tackle in his first two seasons, Marcus Harrison (2008) had three sacks in three years. Still, what stands out is the commitment to taking DTs early in the draft ...-- Position drafted the most in the Lovie years in Chicago? By sheer picks, definitely the defensive secondary -- 10 corners and eight safeties. Still, only one of the corners was in the first three rounds -- and that's a corner in name only, Devin Hester, a phenomenal returner who eventually moved to offense. Safety? He used a third-rounder on a safety in each of his last three years, including new Bucs safety Major Wright ...-- Linebackers? Remember that Lovie had Brian Urlacher and Lance Briggs his whole run in Chicago, so that took away much of the need for a linebacker, but the highest the Bears took a linebacker in those nine years was the third round -- Michael Okwo, who never played a down for Chicago, spending his only season on injured reserve.-- We'll try to do the same research on Jason Licht's background, at least his recent years in Arizona -- he's had varying levels of influence in his front-office roles with several teams, but it's his history, so it's relevant as we anticipate his first draft as a GM. He's been in NFL war rooms since 2001, so you'd think he's been shaped by the good and bad picks he's witnessed firsthand over 13 drafts before this one ...

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Lovie wasn’t calling the shots in Chicago. Stupid article.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      Yeah, coaches are viewed as the last say with drafts too often.  I read the first sentence, tho’…

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Lovie wasn't calling the shots in Chicago. Stupid article.

      As the head coach, I have a hard time thinking that he didn't have a big say in who the team was drafting. I'd compare it to Gruden's pull while he was here. I don't buy that Gruden didn't get who wanted for the most part...and don't buy that Lovie didn't get who he wanted for the most part.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      Lovie wasn't calling the shots in Chicago. Stupid article.

      As the head coach, I have a hard time thinking that he didn't have a big say in who the team was drafting. I'd compare it to Gruden's pull while he was here. I don't buy that Gruden didn't get who wanted for the most part...and don't buy that Lovie didn't get who he wanted for the most part.

      Kiffin got a lot of picks thrown his way to keep him here, IMO

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      Lovie wasn't calling the shots in Chicago. Stupid article.

      As the head coach, I have a hard time thinking that he didn't have a big say in who the team was drafting. I'd compare it to Gruden's pull while he was here. I don't buy that Gruden didn't get who wanted for the most part...and don't buy that Lovie didn't get who he wanted for the most part.

      I'm sure Lovie had a say in some picks, but not nearly what Gruden had. Gruden was an experienced, Super Bowl-winning head coach who was eventually allowed to hand pick a GM he wanted to work with. Jerry Angelo was in Chicago for three years before Lovie Smith was hired and Lovie came in merely as a well-respected assistant coach. He didn't have much of any personal clot based on his prior track record.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      When I hear that Lovie gets say on final 53, it tells me that was a lesson he learned from his stint with the bears.But, does that mean anything when it comes to the draft?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      It is what it is.  Lovie is not an offensive guy.  He gets a two score lead, and he becomes a squatter.  He wants his defense to be dominating, and his special teams to help with field position, and the occasional cheap score.He will build the same thing in Tampa.Now I have this feeling he won't be taking an offensive lineman.  Nor will he be taking a QB, as there is too much riding on his first pick being a QB...much of his rep will be tied with that pick, he won't risk it on these risky QBs (Although grooming them behind a guy like McCown for a year would be ideal..)I am thinking he will take Donald, or if for some miraculous reason Watkins slips, he will "steal" him.My bet, as of right now, is that he takes...ah hell...I dunno.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      When I hear that Lovie gets say on final 53, it tells me that was a lesson he learned from his stint with the bears.But, does that mean anything when it comes to the draft?

      Almost every head coach gets final say over the 53.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      I am taking a wait and see attitude for this draft. If they select D with the first pick…I may lose my mind…they (for the most part) took care of the defense during FAThe offense has some pretty glaring holes...WR and OL...they painted themselves into a corner with the release of Mike Williams...the first pick has got to be an offensive starter

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      When I hear that Lovie gets say on final 53, it tells me that was a lesson he learned from his stint with the bears.But, does that mean anything when it comes to the draft?

      Almost every head coach gets final say over the 53.

      I'd think salary cap issues come into play, tho'...

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Lovie wasn't calling the shots in Chicago. Stupid article.

      As the head coach, I have a hard time thinking that he didn't have a big say in who the team was drafting. I'd compare it to Gruden's pull while he was here. I don't buy that Gruden didn't get who wanted for the most part...and don't buy that Lovie didn't get who he wanted for the most part.

      I'm sure Lovie had a say in some picks, but not nearly what Gruden had. Gruden was an experienced, Super Bowl-winning head coach who was eventually allowed to hand pick a GM he wanted to work with. Jerry Angelo was in Chicago for three years before Lovie Smith was hired and Lovie came in merely as a well-respected assistant coach. He didn't have much of any personal clot based on his prior track record.

      I tend to believe that it was much more than just "some picks". Lovie might be in a much happier GM/HC marriage now, but it was still a marriage then and they had to come together to make picks for the Bears. Just not buying that Lovie is without much "blame" for those draft selections. That said, I'm not too worried about the Bucs going forward. I truly believe that this is a new and "refreshed" Lovie who recognizes that there has to be more than just a simply competent offense on the other side of the locker room.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I look at it this way, ..he risked much more on wimpy cutler than he would on a qb in this draft.One which he can groom, with "his" oc, while he builds around the defense.Make no mistake, we're rebuilding. Maybe in in the sense we have no players, but the system has to be implemented and players accustomed to their environment.Because of all he faces in the future, I feel lovie has no choice but to draft a qb high.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2445

      I look at it this way, ..he risked much more on wimpy cutler than he would on a qb in this draft.One which he can groom, with "his" oc, while he builds around the defense.Make no mistake, we're rebuilding. Maybe in in the sense we have no players, but the system has to be implemented and players accustomed to their environment.Because of all he faces in the future, I feel lovie has no choice but to draft a qb high.

      but what if next years mid first round QBs are better prospects than any of the top 4 QBs this year. Its looking to me like a QB you could get next year with a mid to late first round maybe have less question marks than any of these QBs (unless you're a Breidgewater fan like myself and dont view him as a question mark).There area already 4 guys that we know will be better QB prospects than Carr and Bortles at least and the college season hasnt even started. I think next years QB class is a lot better, and you wont need a top 10 pick to get a QB thats better than all the prospects this year besides Bridgewater who some are concerned about anyway.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Ah, but WHO is better..and by your standards pep.We're assuming we'll be picking mid round or higher next draft, and those same guys might as well be glennon.All I'm saying is, take a damn shot while they have it. It may or may not pan out, but regardless of that, I believe we'll field a better team just by coaching improvements alone.So to me, it's worth the risk. Btw fwiw pep, I think lovie/tedford likes teddy.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 861

      I am taking a wait and see attitude for this draft. If they select D with the first pick...I may lose my mind...they (for the most part) took care of the defense during FAThe offense has some pretty glaring holes...WR and OL...they painted themselves into a corner with the release of Mike Williams...the first pick has got to be an offensive starter

      Agree 1000%.That eliminates all the QB and reduces it to OL or WR.  Logic says no OL, don't care who else you have you aren't going anywhere. Didn't we learn anything from last years putrid OL?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1658

      but what if next years mid first round QBs are better prospects than any of the top 4 QBs this year. Its looking to me like a QB you could get next year with a mid to late first round maybe have less question marks than any of these QBs (unless you're a Breidgewater fan like myself and dont view him as a question mark).

      The problem there is that it's *so* hard to project what QB classes are going to look like a year ahead of time.  I mean, remember back when people were calling Boyd a high-first round prospect?  The college season hasn't even started yet and Winston's *already* gone from the presumptive #1 overall pick to a guy I'd be kind of scared to draft.  I mean, you don't want to reach for need, but if they feel like a guy is worth the pick, there's much to be said for striking while the iron's hot.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Lovie wasn't calling the shots in Chicago. Stupid article.

      As the head coach, I have a hard time thinking that he didn't have a big say in who the team was drafting. I'd compare it to Gruden's pull while he was here. I don't buy that Gruden didn't get who wanted for the most part...and don't buy that Lovie didn't get who he wanted for the most part.

      Lovie had no ring....and no final say!!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      I am taking a wait and see attitude for this draft. If they select D with the first pick...I may lose my mind...they (for the most part) took care of the defense during FAThe offense has some pretty glaring holes...WR and OL...they painted themselves into a corner with the release of Mike Williams...the first pick has got to be an offensive starter

      Agree 1000%.That eliminates all the QB and reduces it to OL or WR.

      When you don't have THE guy, QB is never eliminated.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Lovie wasn't calling the shots in Chicago. Stupid article.

      As the head coach, I have a hard time thinking that he didn't have a big say in who the team was drafting. I'd compare it to Gruden's pull while he was here. I don't buy that Gruden didn't get who wanted for the most part...and don't buy that Lovie didn't get who he wanted for the most part.

      Lovie had no ring....and no final say!!

      He was HC and had plenty of "say"...enough to pin some of the blame for those drafts on his shoulders as well as JA's. Outside of Dallas,  I gotta believe that almost every HC is heavily involved in the selection of players. Certainly involved enough where they could not claim that " that was the GMs decision"...yea, BS.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Lovie wasn't calling the shots in Chicago. Stupid article.

      As the head coach, I have a hard time thinking that he didn't have a big say in who the team was drafting. I'd compare it to Gruden's pull while he was here. I don't buy that Gruden didn't get who wanted for the most part...and don't buy that Lovie didn't get who he wanted for the most part.

      Lovie had no ring....and no final say!!

      He was HC and had plenty of "say"...enough to pin some of the blame for those drafts on his shoulders as well as JA's. Outside of Dallas,  I gotta believe that almost every HC is heavily involved in the selection of players. Certainly involved enough where they could not claim that " that was the GMs decision"...yea, BS.

      I don't think you'd ever hear that......publically.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      I am taking a wait and see attitude for this draft. If they select D with the first pick...I may lose my mind...they (for the most part) took care of the defense during FAThe offense has some pretty glaring holes...WR and OL...they painted themselves into a corner with the release of Mike Williams...the first pick has got to be an offensive starter

      Agree 1000%.That eliminates all the QB and reduces it to OL or WR.

      When you don't have THE guy, QB is never eliminated.

      Or when a marginal fan feels we dont have THE guy.  Weird.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      I am taking a wait and see attitude for this draft. If they select D with the first pick...I may lose my mind...they (for the most part) took care of the defense during FAThe offense has some pretty glaring holes...WR and OL...they painted themselves into a corner with the release of Mike Williams...the first pick has got to be an offensive starter

      Agree 1000%.That eliminates all the QB and reduces it to OL or WR.

      When you don't have THE guy, QB is never eliminated.

      Or when a marginal fan feels we dont have THE guy.  Weird.

      Marginal fan? That's some funny shlt right there. As the draft gets closer and closer, your posts get more and more full of delirium. Keep it coming!!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Even with Williams on the team they were going WR.  We have some age and depth issues that need to be addressed.  Lovie is starting to sound like he just doesn’t give two shots about this QB class.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      I am taking a wait and see attitude for this draft. If they select D with the first pick...I may lose my mind...they (for the most part) took care of the defense during FAThe offense has some pretty glaring holes...WR and OL...they painted themselves into a corner with the release of Mike Williams...the first pick has got to be an offensive starter

      Agree 1000%.That eliminates all the QB and reduces it to OL or WR.

      When you don't have THE guy, QB is never eliminated.

      Or when a marginal fan feels we dont have THE guy.  Weird.

      Marginal fan? That's some funny shlt right there. As the draft gets closer and closer, your posts get more and more full of delirium. Keep it coming!!

      lol

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Lovie is starting to sound like he just doesn't give two shots about this QB class.

      Clearly!!

      Please wait…

Viewing 25 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.