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    • Skull and Bones

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      Marcus Mariota Or Jameis Winston: Who's The Better Prospect?By David_Wyatt ? @D_wyatt13  on Oct 29 2014, 5:00p  667    Cary Edmondson-USA TODAY SportsWith Geno Smith sinking to new levels of ineptitude in his three 1st quarter interceptions against the Buffalo Bills, the question of the 2015 draft eligible quarterbacks was always likely to come up. So I've decided to post a very early look at two of college's finest QB's and what makes them tick.? Tweet  (24)  ?Share  (97)  ? Share      The word in college football is that both Mariota and Winston will leave Oregon and Florda State respectively and enter the 2015 NFL draft. Let me preface this whole article my stating categorically that there are more QB prospects worth looking at in this draft than just those two. Guys like Connor Cook from Michigan State, Brett Hundley from UCLA and Garrett Grayson (a personal favorite of mine) from Colorado State all have talent and when we get closer to the draft, we'll start to take a closer look at all of these guys. However, at this moment in time, it is generally agreed that Mariota and Winston are top 5 prospects and with the Jets sitting at 1-7 and experiencing horrible quarterback play, it's logical to ask the question in the headline.When evaluating a quarterback prospect, I'll always look at the following:•Character•Size•Arm Strength•Accuracy•Delivery/Release•Running Ability•QB Intelligence•Drop Back/Feet•Pocket Presence/Poise•LeadershipSo if you'll stay with me throughout. I'm going to focus on each aspect and give you my thoughts. I expect many won't agree, but that's why every team's draft board is different. I wrote an article some time ago (2010) about "Trusting The System: The NFL Scout" which highlighted a few aspects of scouting in general. Everyone has their favorite prospects, the guys you'll defend to the end. I always defended Harrison Smith, as well as a number of other prospects over the years, most of them from Notre Dame. I always respect opinions of others even if I don't agree with them, all the observations below are my own and based on the games I've witnessed.Character When I think of the two players, I think of two entirely different prospects who will bring entirely different qualities to your team. It confuses me when people tell me to take character out of it, that's not how you evaluate players. You have to include character because that can cause a mountain of problems and issues that permeate throughout your franchise. Marcus Mariota has an outstanding character, a nice approachable guy who studies hard, keeps his nose clean and understands he is the leading figure of a major FBS program who can't afford to lose him to silly immature mistakes. Jameis Winston obviously has some growing up to do, he has been caught doing several silly things that have cost him game time and respect.The character issues with Jameis Winston are quite concerning. He was accused of sexual assault, and although he was never charged there was a big investigation into irregularities of the police investigation. I don't want to get into this, but look closely and something doesn't seem right. He brought a BB gun onto campus and shot at squirrels. He has on numerous occasions shoplifted small items and earlier this year he was suspended for an entire game after a vulgar incident at the student union. I've read numerous quotes from scouts, GM's who say his character is a red flag and the best thing he can do is stay in school and mature as a person. Some will say it's just a kid being a kid, I disagree, after all I don't want to put the keys to the franchise's future in the hands of a kid.That's character, personality and maturity. I don't think anyone can argue that Marcus Mariota is by far, the more accomplished in his regard and the more reliable player off the field. Whether you put much importance on that or not, we live in the social media age where everything is caught on video, it's far more important to have a clean character now than it was in the 1990's.Better prospect in this category: Marcus Mariota SizeBoth prospects possess excellent size for the position. Marcus Mariota is 6'4 219lb's and Jameis Winston is 6'4 and 230lb's. Winston possesses a better build and reminds a lot of people of Big Ben, which I can understand. Mariota has a leaner frame but he still has enough strength to work through tackles. Winston however has the broader shoulders, the thicker waist and uses his size to avoid a lot of pressures and potential sacks. There really isn't a lot to choose from between them, they both have the height but Winston has the build. When both player evaluations come in at the end of the college season, size will be listed as a strength for both.Winston  © Melina Vastola | 2014 Oct 18Better prospect in this caegory: Jameis WinstonArm StrengthFor some reason, some people seem to suggest that Mariota has a weak arm because  the majority of his throws in college only travel a short distance. This is simply a false assumption based on offensive system. Mariota while not elite has above average arm strength and I've seen him throw the ball down field with ease. Although he works out of a spread offense at Oregon, and a lot of the throws are on quick reads and behind the line of scrimmage, that doesn't mean he can't throw down field. At times he has had to throw down field and his arm strength has never been an issue in any game I've witnessed. If you're rating the arm strength out of 10, you're probably giving Marcus a very solid 7.5.This is a category that Winston really excels in. In 10th grade, Winston could throw a football 70 yards through the air. His first year in college he was throwing balls over frat houses. The video that is available on youtube shows him slinging a ball a fair distance with ease. Andrew Luck has a once in a generation arm when it comes to arm strength, however Winston isn't far away from that. He constantly throws the ball down-field as FSU and he makes every single throw with zip. It's very rare to see a ball under-thrown when it's coming out of his hand. Some times he puts too much mustard on the shorter throws, making it a little difficult for his receivers to catch the ball.However that's not the question here. Rating his arm strength out of 10, you're probably giving him a very good 9.#  Pure Arm StrengthBetter prospect in this caegory: Jameis WinstonAccuracyAgain, some will try to argue that the superb accuracy that Marcus Mariota exhibits is down entirely to the offense he runs. I've seen a lot of Oregon games this year and last year and that's simply not true. Yes, running a spread offense is always going to help a QB but when asked to thrown down field, make post-snap reads and deliver the ball to the correct spot, Mariota is at the top of the college QB chart. I've seen him make accurate throws on the run, to the outside, over the middle, down the sideline, in the flats, on check downs, on hot reads and going deep. His ball placement is among the elite, one of the finest I've seen since I started watching prospects over a decade ago. He has enjoyed 68.5% (2012), 63.5% (2013) and 68.8% (2014) completion percentages in college. His ability to spot the ball in the face of pressure means he has a very valuable asset that a lot of teams will like when they come to evaluate him for their teams.Currently, Jameis Winston is enjoying a very accurate season with Florida State. Last year he enjoyed a 66.9% completion record and this year he is currently throwing 70.6% completion. However saying that, his ball placement isn't half as good as Mariota's and he often throws balls up for grabs with plenty of air under it. Luckily last year he had Kelvin Benjamin who helped out a lot on those jump balls. Now that is not to say that Winston is inaccurate, not at all. His accuracy on deep throws is elite, he sometimes misses on the intermediate throws over the middle, which come down to timing, but with the completion percentage, you can see that's not a major issue. I don't think Winston will maintain his 70% completion record but he'll end up around the 65% mark.This is a very close call for who I consider to have the better accuracy, however in terms of ball placement, I have to go with:  Better prospect in this category: Marcus Mariota Delivery/ReleaseMarcus Mariota excels in the offense of Oregon because he has an excellent, clean, compact and quick throwing motion that doesn't deviate much from throw to throw, his quick and compact release allows him to throw with excellent timing and get the ball in the hands of his receivers quickly, what a spread offense is all about and what will be expected from a quarterback entering into a west coast offense. He has a high point of release that allows balls to travel with zip to their targets without danger of being tipped and intercepted. I really like Mariota's motion and his throwing motion is ready for the NFL.Jameis Winston has a troubling motion that I really don't like. It looks a lot slower and elongated. When throwing quick read passes, especially over the middle, his elongated motion causes some timing issues. Again he doesn't have a Tebow motion or anything of the sort, but his release is a little wider than you'd like and with it being a little slower, it may cause a few issues at the next level when he comes under a lot more pressure than he's ever experienced in college. I don't think it's a major issue and he still has a high enough release point, but he does have a tendency to fall off his throws. This one is pretty straight forward for me:Better prospect in this category: Marcus Mariota Running AbilityMarcus Mariota is by and large one of the finest running quarterbacks I've seen when it comes to a guy who is just as talented with his arm. His ability to not only spot the gaps but accelerate through them make him a home-run threat in both facets of the game, running and passing. Over the course of his career he has had 752 yards, 5 touchdowns (2012), 715 yards, 9 touchdowns (2013) and 325 yards, touchdowns (2014, so far). He has excellent speed, tremendous athletic ability a enough mobility to scare the living daylights out of defensive coordinators. He's a very smart runner in that he protects the football and has a second gear too, he also has some moves in the open field. He avoids contact as much as he can and his ability to throw on the run make him an elite prospect for teams that like to move their QB's around the pocket and work off play-action and bootlegs.  SupermanWinston is not a running quarterback but he does have the athletic ability and mobility to extend plays with his legs when needed. He hasn't really run all that much this year, accumulating under 50 yards of rushing. Last year he had 219 yards on 88 carries, which is only good for a 2.5 yard average. Like I said though, he's not a running quarterback, he's a pro style passer. He can extend plays and he does that a lot to avoid pressure and he can run, he would just prefer to beat you with his arm. This is a very clear category for a winner:Better prospect in this category: Marcus Mariota QB IntelligenceMarcus Mariota is a very safe quarterback. Over the course of his three seasons with Oregon he has thrown 11 interceptions against 87 touchdowns. Now he does have a lot of high percentage throws, however he also throws down the field and will often make the safe read. Yes he does have pre-snap reads but I've also seen him throw the ball away when the play isn't there, take the safer option when his primary read is well covered and take off if he doesn't see the passing lane. In short, he just doesn't turn the ball over very often and he often makes the right decision when it comes to throwing the football. If you pick out 2-3 games from 2012,2013 or 2014, you'll see the same thing, a guy who reads the play well and delivers the ball on time and away from pressure. His intelligence for the game is indisputable, the game at Oregon flows very quickly and he's constantly on top of his reads, checks and adjustments. Oregon works on a zone-read, read-option offense which requires a high football IQ both before the ball is snapped and once the play is in motion. Will he be able to make the transition to a pro-style offense? That's the big question, but nothing in his college career suggests he won't be able to.Jameis Winston also exhibits exceptional intelligence for the game. He makes adjustments before the play and after the play, he works through reads and consistently finds his hot reads, and number one and two receivers. He is also adept at taking off when he needs to. Fortunately one thing has been noted about Winston and if you google this, it will come up in pretty much every single assessment. A big weakness was exposed last year by Auburn and their blitz heavy man-to-man pressure defense. Although he orchestrated the victory for Florida State he had one of the lowest completion percentages in his career, he at times looked confused and panicked when facing exotic blitzes and he often delayed his throws which affected his timing and accuracy. In the NFL you will see exotic defenses, time and time again. Blitzes will come from the left, right, defensive backs, linebackers, safeties, delayed and overload, recognizing this and reacting accordingly is a major factor for an NFL QB. I've seen him struggle at times with this, although this year he looks to be making some big improvements. When given time, his intelligence and recognition of where to go with the ball is elite! When pressured, he starts to unravel just a little. Again, with another year in college, this will probably go away.Mariota  © Cary Edmondson | 2014Better prospect in this category: Marcus Mariota Dropback/FootworkThis is a tough one to really judge because Marcus Mariota often takes his snaps from the shotgun almost exclusively. He rarely has to drop back and as such there is very little video evidence to suggest he can or can't do this. However when researching this article I found something from Oregon that suggested Mariota was staying 30-40 minutes after team sessions to practice his center exchange. Now I've watched a lot of Oregon this season and they rarely run a play from under center, however it's encouraging to hear that Mariota is taking his future in the NFL seriously and he is working on this aspect of the game. Once he does snap the ball however, his footwork is excellent, sliding away from pressure and stepping into his throws. He rarely gets happy feet and that's a positive for any NFL franchise. However he will need to prove to scouts that he is comfortable throwing off 3,5 and 7 step drops during the pre-draft workout.Jameis Winston's dropbacks are exceptional. He builds speed as he drops and he is one of the better quarterbacks in college at taking NFL standard 7 step drops. His feet are clean and structured during the drop back, he keeps his eyes up and he's very tall at the end of his drop, ready to throw. His footwork is OK once he has made his drop, this was the one area highlighted as needing big improvements going forward. It's not terrible, but he needs to ensure he feels pressure and slides away from it rather than get happy feet. His footwork is an issue for me and although he's made improvements this year, I still think he needs another year in college with coaching to clean this area up a bit. However because his drops are so clean and we don't know if Mariota can do that, the winner here is clear for me.  Better prospect in this caegory: Jameis WinstonPocket Presence/PoiseMariota has outstanding pocket presence and poise. He often makes throws under duress and his accuracy doesn't suffer all that much it seems. He keeps his eyes downfield and he feels pressure to slide away from it. He also has the ability to extend the play with his feet which makes him a very valuable asset. He delivers balls while getting hit and he doesn't mind standing tall and taking the hit if it's going to result in first downs. This is a major major asset for any quarterback and he has really evolved over the course of this season with his innate ability to just feel where that pressure is coming from. He doesn't get happy feet and he stays tall, he really is a very impressive quarterback in this regard.Winston is hot and cold in this regard. For the majority he is exceptional, I've seen him deliver pass-after-pass on the button while getting drilled. He will stand up tall, deliver the ball and take off if he spots pressure coming with no open receiver. However he also has a tendency to lose his pocket poise once he has been under duress. We saw this against Auburn, he drops his eyes because he doesn't feel pressure as well as Mariota, this means he loses the position of his read and this delays the mechanics of delivering the pass. 85% of the time, he is absolutely fine but when faced with heavy pressure, Winston needs to do a better job of keeping his eyes downfield and feeling the pressure rather than looking for it. Again, this was an area that Mariota needed to improve in, and he did that during his 3rd year, I'd fully expect Winston to do the same.  Better prospect in this category: Marcus Mariota LeadershipMarcus is the life and soul of this Oregon offense, everything runs through him and he leads by example on and off the field. If you're looking for someone to scream and shout, then the cool exterior of Marcus Mariota won't be for you. He's a passionate guy and that comes through at times, but for the majority he is a guy who will personify cool, calm and collected and that may be due to his Hawaii roots. However his team wanted him to be more of a vocal leader, they wanted him to take more of a central role. Apparently that is going very well with Mariota taking a more vocal stance in practice and during team meetings. He's not going to be Jonny Manziel ranting and raving in the face of his team mates if they make a mistake and you won't catch him jumping up and down on the sideline. Some say he reminds them of Joe Flacco, for me he also reminds me of Peyton Manning in terms of his demeanor. I'm not saying his game is similar to Peyton's, that would be ridiculous, but his "on to the next play" attitude is something very reminiscent of the former Tennessee man. I like my quarterbacks to be more in this mold than the other, but I understand people who don't.On the other side of the spectrum, you have Jameis Winston. A ranter and raver who will get in the face of anyone who makes a mistake. As long as the QB is performing he can do this, but you try doing this when you're making errors and it's going to cause friction. On the field, Winston leads by example better than anyone, he makes big play after big play against top opponents to win his team the game. Off the field he is the worst kind of leader and several people have commented that he needs to become a better leader before he hopes to get an NFL locker room to follow him. He's still making these immature decisions that make him and the program look bad, his immaturity is a big factor and the fact he made an abusive comment that resulted in a suspension not a month ago means he has a long way to go before he is the leader everyone wants to see. People have said he needs to stay in college one more year and prove he is mature enough to be handed a lot of money and a lot of responsibility, and I think that's the right move to make.Better prospect in this category: Marcus Mariota ConclusionFirst of all, if you're still reading me rabble on about these prospects after 3,000 words, you deserve a medal, and thank you for reading. I think it's obvious from the above that I think Mariota is the safer and more polished prospect right now. In many ways when I was writing this, I kept thinking about the 1998 draft with Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf. On one hand you have this fiery character with some maturity issues who has unlimited potential and could be the next great quarterback to play in the NFL. On the other you have this reserved character who's a very safe prospect who will say and do all the right things and in the end prove to be a safe option. Now obviously there are some stark differences in this situation, the respective games of the prospects and the NFL in general now in comparison to the late 90's.Winston could be very special.However if I were a friend of his or close to him, I would plead with him to return to college for one more year. In the space of that year, he can improve on the small deficiencies in his game like Mariota did and he can prove to NFL scouts, owners and general managers that he can be trusted to be given the keys to the franchise. Right now, with his maturity issues, I'm not handing him a boat load of money and investing my franchise in him. Now he's not toxic and these are childish things. However that's why you have college, and staying one more year will probably mean a more mature Winston when he exits for the NFL. I have spoken to a few people over the last month or so, and the feeling is that his stock is going down rather than up. He has all the talent in the world but one more year will do him the world of good.Mariota is a guy that I really enjoy watching. He is a duel-threat quarterback but he has so much to his game. From sliding in the pocket to avoid pressure, making the right decision, working through his reads or making the accurate throw at the right time, he's the kind of guy that will win you a lot of games and not lose you very many. I know a number of people are very high on Winston and down on Mariota and a lot of those people will disagree with my assessment, but I think when you break it all down, Mariota is the safer pick and will perform better immediately. If they both stay in school next year (which is possible if unlikely), then my assessment could be very very different next year.If I were drafting for the New York Jets and I have the choice between the two players, I'm taking Marcus Mariota.

    • Anonymous

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      Jameis Winston vs. Marcus Mariota: Who Will Prove to Be the Better QB? By Ben Kercheval , Featured Columnist  Dec 15, 2014 Jameis Winston vs. Marcus Mariota: Who Will Prove to Be the Better QB? There won't be a more compelling matchup of quarterbacks this bowl season than the one in the Rose Bowl. "The Granddaddy of Them All" features, as anticipated, the latest Heisman Trophy winner, Oregon quarterback Marcus Mariota, and last year's Heisman winner, Florida State quarterback Jameis Winston. On top of that, it's likely going to be the final college game for one of them, as the winner will move on to the College Football Playoff championship. Some might be so bold to say that's a decent storyline. Mariota's numbers have been not only eye-popping, but consistent: 68.3 completion percentage, 3,783 yards, 10.2 yards per attempt, 669 rushing yards, 5.72 yards per rush, 53 total touchdowns, two interceptions and a partridge in a pear tree. Winston's numbers are down this season, a reflection of—but not necessarily a reason for—Florida State's inconsistent play. On the year, Winston has a 65.4 completion percentage, 3,559 yards, 8.4 yards per attempt, 27 total touchdowns and 17 interceptions. Which one is primed for the better game?Marcus Mariota vs. Jameis WinstonPlayer Completion % Passing Yards Yards per Attempt Rushing Yards Total Touchdowns Interceptions Marcus Mariota 68.3 3,783 10.2 669 53 2 Jameis Winston 65.4 3,559 8.4 80 27 17 cfbstats.com The Case for MariotaHe hasn't had a bad game all year. Not one. That's amazing considering how hit-and-miss the Ducks' offensive line has been this season. Oregon has allowed 2.23 sacks per game, but there was a stretch in late September into October when, because of injuries, Oregon had a hard time keeping a clean pocket for Mariota.  The closest any team has been to making Mariota "just a guy" was Arizona in a 31-24 win over the Ducks in early October. Mariota was still 20-of-32 for 276 passing yards and a pair of scores, but was a non-factor running the ball and forced into two fumbles on sacks. The flip side to all of that is that Mariota has faced just two truly stout defenses: Stanford and Michigan State. The Cardinal and Spartans rank first and 14th in yards per passing attempt allowed, respectively, and second and 12th in points per game allowed. Granted, Mariota played well in both of those games, throwing for 318 yards and three touchdowns against Michigan State and 258 yards with four total touchdowns against Stanford. The results, however limited, indicate he's not a quarterback that thrives only on weaker competition. What makes Mariota so good is his decision-making. Mistakes are a rarity for Mariota, but when he does show signs of being human, it doesn't affect him."He's freakishly smart, especially when it comes to football," Ducks offensive coordinator Scott Frost told Adam Rittenberg of ESPN.com in November. "He sees things and processes things so quickly that he just doesn't make a ton of mistakes." Florida State is decent enough in getting takeaways. The Seminoles defense averages one interception a game; it's holding on to the ball that's a problem for FSU. Athletically, Florida State matches up well with Oregon. Can the Noles finally fluster Mariota? No one has done it yet. The Case for WinstonIt's become impossible to talk about Winston solely as an on-the-field product. If you conducted an approval-rating survey of Winston like you would for a president, the results would be bad. There are a lot of people who don't like him because of his off-the-field antics, if you want to call them that.Of course, those incidents—the shoplifting, the BB gun fight, etc.—are microscopic in the bigger question of whether Winston sexually assaulted a woman two years ago. (The results from Winston's code of conduct hearing should be known within the next few weeks, according to Brendan Sonnone of the Orlando Sentinel.)As a result, everything Winston does, like push a referee out of the way during a game, gets magnified. How others view Winston as a football player is done through the lens of his personal life. Additionally, the perception of Mariota has become that of an anti-Winston. But make no mistake: Winston is still a top-tier college quarterback. According to B/R's draft guru Matt Miller, Winston would be a top-five selection from a grade standpoint. It's true that Winston has made some bad decisions this season. Though interceptions are a team stat in that a number of things can contribute to them, Winston's four interceptions against Florida last month were mostly, if not all, on him. However, there are a couple of things to consider. The Seminoles didn't have much of a running game until freshman Dalvin Cook emerged in the second half of the season. That was putting pressure on Winston as a passer. Florida State is also breaking in some freshman receivers. While guys like Travis Rudolph and Ermon Lane are full of promise, they are going to make freshman mistakes like running the wrong route. That can result in a pick. That said, Winston's ball placement is impeccable. He makes some difficult throws look easy. There's something to be said for that. He's not a gifted runner like Mariota, but he's athletic enough to move around in the pocket and make plays with his feet when he has to. In short: Winston didn't magically morph from the most outstanding player in college football a year ago to a nobody. In fact, Winston went from his worst game of the season against Florida to his best against Georgia Tech in the ACC Championship Game (21-of-30 for 309 yards and three touchdowns). Throw out the season stats mentioned above because this one is a close call. A month to prepare might be Winston's best friend. However, there just hasn't been anything this season that indicates Mariota will be anything other than brilliant. It's a safe choice, sure, but not necessarily one that is indicative of the outcome. The Rose Bowl could actually become a game where an unsung hero, perhaps Cook or Royce Freeman of Oregon, takes over the game. The question will be whether Florida State's defense can do two things: play disciplined, especially against tempo, and shut down Oregon's receivers in pass defense. The Seminoles don't get into the backfield much (1.31 sacks per game, last in the ACC), so Mariota could have plenty of time to throw. The more an offense has time, the more likely it's going to make a play. That's all Mariota has done this year. Ben Kercheval is a lead writer for college football. All stats courtesy of cfbstats.com.

    • Anonymous

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      [Winston] brought a BB gun onto campus and shot at squirrels.

      In fairness, they probably deserved it.  As a native Floridian and alum of FSU ... I'm not even joking.  The state would be a better place with fewer squirrels.

    • Anonymous

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      http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000400244/Marcus-Mariota-analysis  All eyes will continue to be on Florida State's Jameis Winston and Oregon's Marcus Mariota as they appear to be the top quarterback prospects in college football.If both declare for the 2015 draft, the debate about which is the better prospect could go on for months, especially with Michigan State's Connor Cook hinting that he won't be in the mix for the NFL next year.When teams compare those guys, they'll go down a checklist of traits. They're very different players. As a pocket passer, Winston's more refined. In terms of athletic ability, give the edge to Mariota because of his ability to make plays with his legs. Character-wise, Mariota has a big edge -- there will be a lot of digging into Winston's background, and his off-field issues are well documented. Mariota earns rave reviews when it comes to character.I think the team that drafts Mariota has to commit to using him as a runner and not just a pure pocket passer. That's a big part of the reason why he's compared to NFL QBs like Colin Kaepernick and Russell Wilson.Now, Winston is coming off arguably the worst half of football in his college career. He struggled mightily before showing what he's capable of in the second half as he led FSU back to beat Louisville. As far as playing from the pocket and delivering the ball accurately, I think Winston is further along in his development than Mariota.On Saturday against Stanford, the thing that stood out most about Mariota's game was his running ability. He showed an electric burst, carrying nine times for 85 yards and two touchdowns. I've been clamoring for him to be more aggressive running the ball because that's what makes him so special. I liked how aggressive he was vs. Stanford.It was a positive night for Mariota overall, but he missed a handful of easy throws. His arm strength was impressive. He drives the ball between the hashes and is great throwing on the move. His footwork in the pocket is good, too. He has to be more consistent accuracy-wise, though. It's not egregious, but it's an area he really needs to hone in on.

    • Anonymous

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      [Winston] brought a BB gun onto campus and shot at squirrels.

      In fairness, they probably deserved it.  As a native Floridian and alum of FSU ... I'm not even joking.  The state would be a better place with fewer squirrels.

      I went to USF and lived in the underclassman dorms one semester.  The squirrels were very bold around there.  took a nap on my sofa one day with the door cracked and woke up to one crawling on me.

    • Anonymous

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      I love that Mariota guy

    • Anonymous

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      Any chance that, if Oregon doesn’t win the championship, Mediocre goes back for another year?

    • Anonymous

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      NFL Draft Watch: King says Winston is ’10 times’ the prospect Mariota is. By Eric Edholm October 23, 2014 2:48 PM .      The conversation will grow over the next six months. So let’s start it early.You’re a quarterback-needy team and your choice is this: Florida State's Jameis Winston or Oregon's Marcus Mariota.On the surface, it appears easy. Winston has trouble written all over him, with off-field problems galore, and Mariota, the clean record and clean-throwing (zero interceptions in 188 passes this season) quarterback, is the obvious choice.Right?It’s not that clear-cut. Not at all.If we are to boil the players down simply on football talent and quarterbacking potential on the next level, Winston — not Mariota — might be the more enticing prospect.So says former NFL quarterback and Yahoo NFL analyst Shaun King. I asked King to ignore character completely, for argument's sake, and strictly grade each player on their talent and NFL upside.“In my opinion, if I am grading them, Winston is 10 times the prospect Mariota is,” King said.What, then, makes Winston so special?“Physically, he has great size — 6-4, very sturdy build. Built like a pro prospect. Big-time arm — can make all the throws. Great intangibles. Winner. Big-time, big-platform résumé.“He plays his best on the brightest stages. Last year in the Clemson game, the second half of the national title game, this year’s Notre Dame game. Early in the season, second half against [Oklahoma State], he always plays his best in those moments. He just has a knack for it.”Not that King is down on Mariota. There’s a lot to like, he says.“I think he has elite athleticism,” King said. “Whereas Winston has great athleticism for a guy his size, Mariota has elite athleticism. He has a good arm; he doesn’t have as big an arm as Winston. He has good size. He’s tall. He’s smart, too.”King is careful not to make too deep a character assessment on either player but says you can tell a lot about their personalities based on the way they play.“The difference between the two … Winston is a football player. He rises to the occasion. He has that emotion in a player that you’re looking for,” King said. “That’s a question about Mariota, as is him playing his best when the lights are brightest.“The difference in their personalities comes through in how they play. Mariota is really laid back. He plays like that. At some point, I think in football I think you have to be ratcheted up a little bit. I’ve never seen him call out one of his teammates for messing up. Winston is the polar opposite.”We don't yet know what Mariota's plans are following his junior season, but reports have surfaced that Winston is planning to leave school after this season. At this point, it would be a surprise if either returns. NFL scouts already have done work on these underclassmen with the idea that they will be available in the 2015 NFL draft.I suggest a Winston comparison of Ben Roethlisberger and a Mariota comparison of Alex Smith, or perhaps a slightly better-running version of Smith. King agrees on both — to a certain extent — but says he thinks he knows whose personality Mariota is most similar to.“See, I think Mariota, personality-wise, is like Joe Flacco. He has a really laid-back off-field demeanor,” King said.And as for Winston …“Yeah, [Winston is] a special athlete, but he’s Big Ben special not RG3 special. For a big guy, he’s a great athlete. He’s got a lot of Big Ben to him. Gets out of a lot of sacks. He’ll pick up a first down [with his legs].”In terms of temperament and being prone to extend plays, even when that’s not the best idea, the Roethlisberger comparison also works for King.“Absolutely,” King said. “In my opinion, that would be one weakness right now. He’s overaggressive at times. There are some inconsistencies in his decision-making. But you’ll take that. A lot of great ones have that.”Winston is a pro-style quarterback, King said, and Mariota still has not shown that in his mind.“I do think there are some question marks about [whether] can Mariota adapt to a different system,” King said. “If I was a team that was really interested in him, I would have to be convinced that he can come from under center, take five- and seven-step drops, and can throw an NFL route tree.“Winston makes those NFL-type passes. Mariota doesn’t. He throws a lot of screens. He throws a lot of gimmicky stuff with guys running wide open because of their tempo. The windows Mariota is throwing into are nowhere near as tight as the ones Winston is throwing into.”And yet, there still remains the daunting character issue, which could be a game-changer. There will be no dirt on Mariota, unless people nitpick with his laid-back style. As for Winston, it’s not going to be pretty — from his sexual assault allegations to bouts of immaturity with suspensions at Florida State.King says that could be a game-changing factor for their draft stocks. But in his mind, there isn’t enough dirt that he knows of to knock Winston down too far next spring. King’s belief: Teams will be enamored with his talent.“If you’re asking will it affect him with some teams? Absolutely. Do I think he falls outside the top 10? Absolutely not,” King said. “Would it impact me if I was making that decision? No, I’d take him No. 1.”

    • Anonymous

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      As my biology prof said squirrels are rats with fuzzy tails. My deserve to die, doesn’t change that shooting at them on campus is BSC.

    • Anonymous

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      I love that Mariota guy

      +1

    • Anonymous

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      PETA would be all over us if that moron tried that while playing for us.

    • Anonymous

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      Good news, no squirrels at RJS and the way this team is going the won’t be many spectators who can become collateral damage if he doesn’t check his background.

    • Anonymous

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      S&B,Thanks for providing this article.I don't put a lot of value into it as author states character as his first evaluation tool on a top 5 prospect. Eh, if we drafted guys off character as a priority guys like AJ McCaron would be first overall picks.Addtionally, the opinion that Mariota has better pocket presence/poise is silly. I am not sure I have seen a QB perform better in crunch time than Jameis. I believe even the strongest supporters of Mariota on this board would concede it is generally excepted Jameis has excellent pocket presence (exceeding that of Mariota), and poise. Furthermore, to suggest that Mariota is more accurate despite having lower completion percentage and being asked to do less in terms of downfield throwing is just silly. Winston's 70% completion rate is a videogames statistic. Oftentimes, due to significant talent difference, NFL receivers have to be expected to "go up and get it" and QBs are expected to make jump ball throws. Trying to put Mariota even close to Winston's level in arm strength is crazy silly too. Mariota rarely makes aggressive throws so it is impossible to predict how he would be at the pro level in this category. Mariota just isn't asked to rely on arm talent as Winston is. I think its clear we can measure Winston's arm talent, we cannot measure arm talent on Mariota. Trying to paint a portrait of similar size between the two is silly as well. 15 pounds is a significant amount of weight in fighting class and in football. Maybe Mariota can grow into that 6'4" frame but right now, Jameis is better equipped to handle the stress of NFL hits.Character is clearly the thing weighing Jameis down. I am sure if Jameis was squeaky clean like Mariota, the majority of fans here, as well as all analysts would have Jameis as the consensus #1 overall pick. I think it comes down to, do you think Jameis will grow up, or do you think he will be out of the NFL in 1-3 years?

    • Anonymous

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      Who’s the Better NFL Draft Prospect, Marcus Mariota or Jameis Winston?Marcus Mariota, Jameis WinstonScott Olmos-USA TODAY SportsTwo quarterbacks are starting to really separate themselves from the rest of the pack in the 2015 NFL Draft class. You can probably correctly assume they’re Oregon’s Marcus Mariota and Florida State’s Jameis Winston.Now, before we even go further, we have to realize that they’re still underclassmen as Mariota is a redshirt junior and Winston a redshirt sophomore, so they may not even be in next May’s draft. But considering they’re both looking like top-five picks, let’s assume they’ll go pro, just for sake of the argument. Who should go No. 1?We’ll break them down in a few ways: size, arm strength, accuracy, mechanics, mobility, durability and intangibles.As far as size goes, it’s pretty close with Winston only having a slight edge. Mariota is 6-foot-4, 220 pounds and Winston 6-foot-4, 230 pounds. Winston does have a thicker frame but it’s not like the former can’t put on 10 pounds of muscle in the future. This is practically a wash.In regards to arm strength, also close to a wash when both set their feet properly. Both have plus-strength arms and the ability to make all the throws you need to make at the NFL level. Their arm strength is also evident when throwing on the run. If you had to give an edge to one, it’d go to Winston, who generates a ton of velocity on his deep and intermediate throws.Accuracy is another close call, with both having impressive arms in that category. The difference is Winston is more consistent with his accuracy, particularly in the face of pressure. But again, when they set their feet in the pocket, plus accuracy for both. Another slight edge to Winston.Mechanics is an interesting area to look at. Winston’s release is rather slow and encumbered with a dragging windup. He also doesn’t consistently step into his throws, which would give him even greater arm strength and accuracy than he already has. Mariota has a very quick release, smooth windup and delivery and great feet in the pocket. Edge to Mariota.Mobility is clearly a major strength of Mariota, evidenced by his estimated 4.5 40 and 1,623 rushing yards in 29 games. He has long strides and looks like a gazelle on film. Winston has above average speed and can run when he needs to, much like Andrew Luck, but it’s obvious there won’t be a regular package of read-option plays for him at the next level. Edge to Mariota.Durability goes to Winston, and a big reason why is his thicker frame to take punishing hits and the fact he stays in the pocket more. Mariota doesn’t necessarily need to stop running (it’s clearly a weapon to be used), but just needs to do a better job of taking less hits when possible, whether it’s sliding, throwing it away or getting out of bounds. Edge to Winston.Then we come to intangibles, where there’s mixed results on one end. Winston has good leadership qualities, can lead the team on a game-winning drive when it matters most, plays in a pro-style system and has an elite football IQ. But he’s also been arrested multiple times and has been accused of rape (kind of a big deal). His intelligence on the field is impressive, but where’s that intelligence as he walks out of a grocery store with stolen crab legs? Obviously this is an area where scouts are going to spend the bulk of their time grading Winston.Mariota on the other hand, offers no worries other than the fact he’ll have to get used to making proper progressions on reads and dropping back from under center. He’s a highly intelligent player on and off the field, is a good leader and carries himself like a consummate professional. You won’t have to worry about him making headlines for the wrong reason like you will Winston.Overall, Winston has the slightly better physical skill set for the NFL, but comes with significant risk off the field. Mariota has a very good physical skill set and he’ll be a good pro, though he’ll need more developmental time. But he’ll make an excellent face of the franchise, so I’m giving him the slight edge. Again, it’s early though.Rick Stavig is an NFL Draft Columnist for RantSports.com.

    • Anonymous

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      I think Warren misunderstands the role of character or he’s just straw manning it up. You check character as a pre condition to taking a player. You don’t use to to include but to exclude. If a guy is Aaron Hernandez 2.0 you do not even bother with the guy no matter what his skills are. This would be all the more so at QB as we’ve seen with  Russell and Freeman who were not so much criminal as dumb a$$es. Winston might be the former but the is a lot of evidence of the latter. On accuracy, do not tell me you are looking at college completion % to define accuracy. The author makes clear what he means by accuracy and a completion really isn't what it is all about n

    • install

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      I love that Mariota guy

      +1

    • Anonymous

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      I think Warren misunderstands the role of character or he's just straw manning it up. You check character as a pre condition to taking a player. You don't use to to include but to exclude. If a guy is Aaron Hernandez 2.0 you do not even bother with the guy no matter what his skills are. This would be all the more so at QB as we've seen with  Russell and Freeman who were not so much criminal as dumb a$$es. Winston might be the former but the is a lot of evidence of the latter. On accuracy, do not tell me you are looking at college completion % to define accuracy. The author makes clear what he means by accuracy and a completion really isn't what it is all about n

      What other measurement is there to determine accuracy on a collegiate athlete? Freeman was a career under 60% at college same deal here, streaky accuracy rhythm thrower. Is Winston clearly lacking in the character department? Sure. Can I say that he wont pull a Russell or a Freeman? No I cant. That said, heres a guy that has pulled some boneheaded stunts. I can honestly say during my college time, and I am sure many others on this board would agree, I pulled some boneheaded stunts. Did I rape anyone? No. Has Jameis raped someone? We don't know. Maybe he didn't do anything to this girl. He was never charged so there clearly was not even probable cause to believe that this alleged crime occurred. Those not familiar, police need probable cause to charge someone or for them to be indicted. In a percentage type system, probable cause would be defined as around a 38-42% chance a crime has been or is being committed. So the police during their investigation determined that the chances of a crime having been committed here are very very slim. How many athletes have been accused of these types of crimes? Is it this something to hang your hat on when considering drafting him? No. Is immaturity to be taken into consideration? Yes. Call me crazy but I am rolling the dice on character over skill. Thanks.

    • Anonymous

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      King is dead on about Mariota. Like him or love him, Mariota switching to a different system is a question of concern. Its not with Winston. Im not saying you pass on Mariota because of it but its a completely valid concern.

    • Anonymous

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      I’d rather have Cooper than Mariota or Winston.

    • Anonymous

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      I'd rather have Cooper than Mariota or Winston.

      Id probably be there with you but Glennon really let me down in terms of ball placement. He had his opportunity, although waayy too short, and he didnt deliver. He should have been still playing so we could get a way better look but it is what it is and Lovie has forced his window to impress to be really small. So i have to go off what we saw in that window and it wasnt enough to justify passing on Winston and just giving Glennon insane weapons.

    • Anonymous

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      You should real the original article more closely and see what he means by accuracy because completing a pass isn’t good enough. Tebow was a 60% + passer in college but everyone knew his accuracy was bad. 

    • Anonymous

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      I'd rather have Cooper than Mariota or Winston.

      Yeah... I'm gonna wait to see all the underclassmen who declare.  But, Cooper looks better than the QBs.  Can't leave that 400 point defense twisting for too long, tho'...

    • Anonymous

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      I'd rather have Cooper than Mariota or Winston.

      If Glennon didn't shlt the bed I wouldn't mind.

    • Anonymous

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      we already have two good WRs and a 2-10 record to show for it.

    • Anonymous

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      we already have two good WRs and a 2-10 record to show for it.

      That's the truth.

    • Anonymous

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      we already have two good WRs and a 2-10 record to show for it.

      +1

    • Anonymous

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      One of the WRs is as much of a liability as he is an asset… and he won’t be around very much longer.Great guy, tho'...

    • Anonymous

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      In all honesty the ONLY knock on Jameis is his maturity. You cannot overlook not only what he does on the field but the DISTRACTIONS that he leaves in the rear view come game time. I love both prospects, each has their perspective concerns. Mariota’s transition to the NFL would be a lot easier if he had a OC that had a good game plan for him. Either way choosing between Mariota and Winston is the best problem the Bucs have had in a very long time.

    • Anonymous

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      These articles basically confirm what we all knowboth guys have big positives and negatives. i disagree with some things written about both prospects in terms of who is better and why but its nitpicking for the most partits basically a coin-flip

    • install

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      Post count: 1281

      I think Warren misunderstands the role of character or he's just straw manning it up. You check character as a pre condition to taking a player. You don't use to to include but to exclude. If a guy is Aaron Hernandez 2.0 you do not even bother with the guy no matter what his skills are. This would be all the more so at QB as we've seen with  Russell and Freeman who were not so much criminal as dumb a$$es. Winston might be the former but the is a lot of evidence of the latter. On accuracy, do not tell me you are looking at college completion % to define accuracy. The author makes clear what he means by accuracy and a completion really isn't what it is all about n

      What other measurement is there to determine accuracy on a collegiate athlete? Freeman was a career under 60% at college same deal here, streaky accuracy rhythm thrower. Is Winston clearly lacking in the character department? Sure. Can I say that he wont pull a Russell or a Freeman? No I cant. That said, heres a guy that has pulled some boneheaded stunts. I can honestly say during my college time, and I am sure many others on this board would agree, I pulled some boneheaded stunts. Did I rape anyone? No. Has Jameis raped someone? We don't know. Maybe he didn't do anything to this girl. He was never charged so there clearly was not even probable cause to believe that this alleged crime occurred. Those not familiar, police need probable cause to charge someone or for them to be indicted. In a percentage type system, probable cause would be defined as around a 38-42% chance a crime has been or is being committed. So the police during their investigation determined that the chances of a crime having been committed here are very very slim. How many athletes have been accused of these types of crimes? Is it this something to hang your hat on when considering drafting him? No. Is immaturity to be taken into consideration? Yes. Call me crazy but I am rolling the dice on character over skill. Thanks.

      Yer crazy

    • install

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      Can you imagine the # 1 pick being suspended for a year for stupidity….people wanting Winston are cray cray . The dude has some serious issues.. IMO

    • Anonymous

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      Can you imagine the # 1 pick being suspended for a year for stupidity....people wanting Winston are cray cray . The dude has some serious issues.. IMO

      ...and that sure isn't the ONLY knock on him...

    • Anonymous

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      In all honesty the ONLY knock on Jameis is his maturity.

      That isn't really true.  He's still a heck of a prospect, but he's definitely had his issues on the football field this year too.  His second half heroics don't change that.

    • Anonymous

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      In all honesty the ONLY knock on Jameis is his maturity.

      That isn't really true.  He's still a heck of a prospect, but he's definitely had his issues on the football field this year too.  His second half heroics don't change that.

      True.

    • Anonymous

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      PETA would be all over us if that moron tried that while playing for us.

      Believe me when I say this, PETA is a bunch of stupid a holes that have nothing better to do with their time than harass farmers, vets, and everyday pet owners. They are some of the worst scum on the planet."Pig is rat, rat is boy." -from their illustrious leader. Comparing children to rats.I could give a sh1t less about what they think.Still though, shooting at small woodland animals with no regard as to where you're shooting at, and for no real good reason (not protection from other wildlife or farmland), indicates He's still young and stupid. Maybe he's past that point? Who knows. Doesn't sound good, like the other stuff.

    • Anonymous

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      PETA would be all over us if that moron tried that while playing for us.

      Believe me when I say this, PETA is a bunch of stupid a holes that have nothing better to do with their time than harass farmers, vets, and everyday pet owners. They are some of the worst scum on the planet."Pig is rat, rat is boy." -from their illustrious leader. Comparing children to rats.I could give a sh1t less about what they think.Still though, shooting at small woodland animals with no regard as to where you're shooting at, and for no real good reason (not protection from other wildlife or farmland), indicates He's still young and stupid. Maybe he's past that point? Who knows. Doesn't sound good, like the other stuff.

      Oh i definitely agree but they'll be around if Winston chooses to be that kind of moron again.

    • Anonymous

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      When looking only at their on the field abilities, they are both outstanding prospects that are worthy of the #1 pick of the draft. When you look at character and off the field issues....one is the ideal person you want your franchise quarterback to be, while the other is a complete moron that can't go a week without doing something stupid and immature. Because of that, it couldn't be more clear who is the better prospect. #suck4theduck

    • Anonymous

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      Going with King on this one. I won't mind Mariota. But that funky offense he comes from...Lovie Smith...oil and water. Winston is a meathead off the field. But I like his arm, love the fire and energy, and the clutch factor. He could be Jake Locker part two. The elongated delivery always worries me. i get nightmares of Byron Sandwich...ugh...Either or is fine. But Lovie really needs to do some soul searching. If he installs an offense Marcus could thrive in, he will have to accept that his defensive scheme is going to take a beating. Time of possession will be a concern every game with that sort of offense. And that means the defense will be gassed and gashed. Maybe. Maybe not. But I don't consider Mariota a "pro style" QB because he really isn't.  He is a college scheme QB, IMO. Harbaugh would be a decent guy to pair with Marcus, IMO. But he isn't coming as an OC. Fire Lovie. Draft Winston, and Lovie can hire a more traditional OC that caters to his defensive posture.

    • Anonymous

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      Winston is easily the better prospect. He picked up a pro style offense as a freshman. That should tell you that he has it together upstairs. Then again, Freeman started as a true freshman too but he did not play nothing like Winston. That pro style system edge is very critical. Its going to be a bigger learning curve for Mariota when he has to get to the NFL. Winston performs well in the biggest stages of games and hasn’t cracked under pressure which is something I value. He does well in the playoffs and finish strong, we gotta take him and don’t think twice.

    • Anonymous

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      Winston is easily the better prospect. He picked up a pro style offense as a freshman. That should tell you that he has it together upstairs. Then again, Freeman started as a true freshman too but he did not play nothing like Winston. That pro style system edge is very critical. Its going to be a bigger learning curve for Mariota when he has to get to the NFL. Winston performs well in the biggest stages of games and hasn't cracked under pressure which is something I value. He does well in the playoffs and finish strong, we gotta take him and don't think twice.

      He did Redshirt for a year but go on...

    • Anonymous

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      Any chance that, if Oregon doesn't win the championship, Mediocre goes back for another year?

      That's cute coming from someone who worships Glennon.

    • Anonymous

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      Any chance that, if Oregon doesn't win the championship, Mediocre goes back for another year?

      It's comical to see a Glennon fan call a top prospect "Mediocre".

    • Anonymous

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      “An NFL general manager told mmqb.si.com that the Oregon quarterback, who has yet to announce whether he will enter the 2015 draft, falls between where Luck and RGIII were rated as draft prospects. That comes just days after an NFL college scouting director told NFL Media’s Albert Breer that he expects to give Mariota a higher grade than Griffin as well.”http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000444749/article/gm-rates-marcus-mariota-below-andrew-luck-above-rgiii

    • Anonymous

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      I will go out and say that Mariota is the better all around prospect with the more dynamic skillset. But Winston is the better "pro" prospect considering his scheme history and playstyle. Winston has a better transition into the NFL but Mariota has the greater ceiling.

    • billym

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      Its too bad we only have 5 more months to bash these two QB’s into oblivion. I wish we had more time to pick them apart.  [sarc]

    • Anonymous

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      Its too bad we only have 5 more months to bash these two QB's into oblivion. I wish we had more time to pick them apart.  [sarc]

      Its going to be a long long time

    • Anonymous

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      Its too bad we only have 5 more months to bash these two QB's into oblivion. I wish we had more time to pick them apart.  [sarc]

      Its going to be a long long time

      If we have the number one pick, the flame wars here are going to be epic.

    • Anonymous

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      Winston is easily the better prospect. He picked up a pro style offense as a freshman. That should tell you that he has it together upstairs. Then again, Freeman started as a true freshman too but he did not play nothing like Winston. That pro style system edge is very critical. Its going to be a bigger learning curve for Mariota when he has to get to the NFL. Winston performs well in the biggest stages of games and hasn't cracked under pressure which is something I value. He does well in the playoffs and finish strong, we gotta take him and don't think twice.

      He did Redshirt for a year but go on...

      I am well aware of that thank you. He still was considered a freshman then.

    • Anonymous

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      Winston is easily the better prospect. He picked up a pro style offense as a freshman. That should tell you that he has it together upstairs. Then again, Freeman started as a true freshman too but he did not play nothing like Winston. That pro style system edge is very critical. Its going to be a bigger learning curve for Mariota when he has to get to the NFL. Winston performs well in the biggest stages of games and hasn't cracked under pressure which is something I value. He does well in the playoffs and finish strong, we gotta take him and don't think twice.

      He did Redshirt for a year but go on...

      I am well aware of that thank you. He still was considered a freshman then.

      Second year in that system so its not like he didnt have much time to learn it but hey I don't want to take away from the legend that is Jameis.

    • Anonymous

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      Winston is easily the better prospect. He picked up a pro style offense as a freshman. That should tell you that he has it together upstairs. Then again, Freeman started as a true freshman too but he did not play nothing like Winston. That pro style system edge is very critical. Its going to be a bigger learning curve for Mariota when he has to get to the NFL. Winston performs well in the biggest stages of games and hasn't cracked under pressure which is something I value. He does well in the playoffs and finish strong, we gotta take him and don't think twice.

      He did Redshirt for a year but go on...

      I am well aware of that thank you. He still was considered a freshman then.

      Second year in that system so its not like he didnt have much time to learn it but hey I don't want to take away from the legend that is Jameis.

      When I say picked up as a freshman, I meant actually running the offense during live games. Not mental reps on the sidelines. But, lets see how the playoffs go.

    • Anonymous

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      we already have two good WRs and a 2-10 record to show for it.

      basically

    • Anonymous

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      When looking only at their on the field abilities, they are both outstanding prospects that are worthy of the #1 pick of the draft. When you look at character and off the field issues....one is the ideal person you want your franchise quarterback to be, while the other is a complete moron that can't go a week without doing something stupid and immature. Because of that, it couldn't be more clear who is the better prospect. #suck4theduck

      well apparently it isnt that clear because there a pretty large group on both sides of the fence here and the rest of the internet from what I can tell. If their on the field play was equal then yea, the better character would make it an easy decision but while they are both good on the field, they do it in completely different ways for completely different teams. No the debate between which one is the better prospect is not clear at all and it will continue up until draft day. I think im pretty rational yet I have Winston as the top QB prospect.

    • Anonymous

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      we already have two good WRs and a 2-10 record to show for it.

      basically

      Not really.  I wouldn't call Jackson "good" at this point.  On a mediocre team, Jackson is a reasonable 3rd option.  We aren't even mediocre.  Jackson is done.  The Bucs should look to move him in the off-season.  That's why they should draft Cooper.

    • Anonymous

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      we already have two good WRs and a 2-10 record to show for it.

      basically

      Not really.  I wouldn't call Jackson "good" at this point.  On a mediocre team, Jackson is a reasonable 3rd option.  We aren't even mediocre.  Jackson is done.  The Bucs should look to move him in the off-season.  That's why they should draft Cooper.

      And have nobody to throw it to him.

    • Anonymous

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      we already have two good WRs and a 2-10 record to show for it.

      basically

      Not really.  I wouldn't call Jackson "good" at this point.  On a mediocre team, Jackson is a reasonable 3rd option.  We aren't even mediocre.  Jackson is done.  The Bucs should look to move him in the off-season.  That's why they should draft Cooper.

      And have nobody to throw it to him.

      Yeah, that's right, just like Evans... who is having a Pro-Bowl caliber rookie season.  ::)

    • Anonymous

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      we already have two good WRs and a 2-10 record to show for it.

      basically

      Not really.  I wouldn't call Jackson "good" at this point.  On a mediocre team, Jackson is a reasonable 3rd option.  We aren't even mediocre.  Jackson is done.  The Bucs should look to move him in the off-season.  That's why they should draft Cooper.

      And have nobody to throw it to him.

      Yeah, that's right, just like Evans... who is having a Pro-Bowl caliber rookie season.  ::)

      Yeah, that's right, he is. On a 2-12 team.

    • Anonymous

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      we already have two good WRs and a 2-10 record to show for it.

      basically

      Not really.  I wouldn't call Jackson "good" at this point.  On a mediocre team, Jackson is a reasonable 3rd option.  We aren't even mediocre.  Jackson is done.  The Bucs should look to move him in the off-season.  That's why they should draft Cooper.

      And have nobody to throw it to him.

      Yeah, that's right, just like Evans... who is having a Pro-Bowl caliber rookie season.  ::)

      Yeah, that's right, he is. On a 2-12 team.

      That's a coaching issue, not a talent issue.

    • Anonymous

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      That's a coaching issue, not a talent issue.

      You're kidding, right?

    • Anonymous

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      In short , Mariota wins. Onipa a'

    • kenminio

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      In McShay’s 1st mock, he has Mariota going first to Tampa and Winston going #2 to Tennessee. He said Mariota’s biggest knock is his ability to lead receivers open and his overall pocket passing ability. Said that Mariota will need time to develop to be able to hit the tight windows that he will have to pass in at the pro level.. He said, of course, that Winston’s biggest knock is his off field issues. When asked who he would have going first if it wasn’t for the off field issues, he said without hesitation, Winston.Our scouts and coaches are going to need to do some serious investigation on Winston. Not only does Winston have the off field stuff, but he would also bring the Tebow/Manziel circus show to Tampa, but to be honest, with how awesome we have been in the post season since 2002, I wouldn't mind a little excitement with our team, regardless of how we get it.If Lovie and the crew feels that Winston's off field issues are maturity issues and not character issues, I would rather have Winston on our team than Mariota.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2445

      In McShay's 1st mock, he has Mariota going first to Tampa and Winston going #2 to Tennessee. He said Mariota's biggest knock is his ability to lead receivers open and his overall pocket passing ability. Said that Mariota will need time to develop to be able to hit the tight windows that he will have to pass in at the pro level.. He said, of course, that Winston's biggest knock is his off field issues. When asked who he would have going first if it wasn't for the off field issues, he said without hesitation, Winston.Our scouts and coaches are going to need to do some serious investigation on Winston. Not only does Winston have the off field stuff, but he would also bring the Tebow/Manziel circus show to Tampa, but to be honest, with how awesome we have been in the post season since 2002, I wouldn't mind a little excitement with our team, regardless of how we get it.If Lovie and the crew feels that Winston's off field issues are maturity issues and not character issues, I would rather have Winston on our team than Mariota.

      Yea this a legit tradeoff and Im not ranking the guy with Pro level on the field concerns over the guy that is Pro ready right now.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1658

      Our scouts and coaches are going to need to do some serious investigation on Winston. Not only does Winston have the off field stuff, but he would also bring the Tebow/Manziel circus show to Tampa, but to be honest, with how awesome we have been in the post season since 2002, I wouldn't mind a little excitement with our team, regardless of how we get it.

      Yeah.  As far as I'm concerned, the whole sideshow aspect to certain quarterbacks is only a downside if the quarterback isn't very good.  If Tebow played like Peyton, the media blitz that surrounded Tebow would have been a feature, not a bug.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3169

      That's a coaching issue, not a talent issue.

      You're kidding, right?

      Not at all.  Lovie Smith is by far and away the biggest reason this team is 2-12, not any one player or group.  I put approximately 90% of the blame on him.  Hence, "coaching issue".

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3392

      Serious question for the Noles fans (or others) – Trevor Matich (ex-Redskin) was on the radio in the DC area and said that Winston's teammates hate him. Is there any truth to that, or even smoke?

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1658

      It goes against everything I’ve heard, but I’ll admit that I’m regretably deep in Bama and Auburn territory and am not always as current as one might hope when it comes to the team.  If someone closer to Tallahassee says differently, believe them.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      Serious question for the Noles fans (or others) - Trevor Matich (ex-Redskin) was on the radio in the DC area and said that Winston's teammates hate him. Is there any truth to that, or even smoke?

      Complete BStheyd have turned on him a long time ago if they didnt like him. Mattich is terrible. dont listen to a word he says about anything

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3392

      I don’t typically. Just wondering because I had heard the opposite.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 943

      Im going to be disappointed if the pick isn’t Winston.I think if you dont pick Winston there, you go with another position and start Glennon next year.Not buying Mariota's hype at all, too many questions regarding skill set. When was the last time a QB was drafted 1 overall with so many questions regarding his ability to play at the NFL level. This is just crazy.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Im going to be disappointed if the pick isn't Winston.I think if you dont pick Winston there, you go with another position and start Glennon next year.Not buying Mariota's hype at all, too many questions regarding skill set. When was the last time a QB was drafted 1 overall with so many questions regarding his ability to play at the NFL level. This is just crazy.

      Considering most of those questions come from your imagination and not actual scouting , it's not that crazy at all. Most scouts and draft pundits rave about Mariota's potential .

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 6506

      Mariota has outstanding character and intelligence. He already earned his bachelor’s degree in 2013 and only returned to college this season for football. In the locker room and in the community he has proven to be humble, honest, and have high moral values.On the field he has Elite size and speed. Great arm. Great decision making. He threw for over 10,000 yards, 101 TDs, and just 12 interceptions over his three year college career. He also had over 2,000 yards rushing and added another 28 TDs on the ground. He has remained humble and grown as a leader. He'll have to adjust to a different system and the speed of the game in the NFL just like every rookie quarterback before him, but he has everything you could ask for in a franchise quarterback you are using the #1 pick on....and yet we will listen to talking heads that get paid to make controversy try to tear him apart for the next 6 months and many ignorant fans will buy into it. I won't. He is the pick. It is an easy decision. Some moron that has shown great ability on the field and a complete lack of maturity or character off the field does not make it a difficult decision. It's 100% Mariota. We can turn in our card the morning after the Super Bowl.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Mariota has outstanding character and intelligence. He already earned his bachelor’s degree in 2013 and only returned to college this season for football. In the locker room and in the community he has proven to be humble, honest, and have high moral values.On the field he has Elite size and speed. Great arm. Great decision making. He threw for over 10,000 yards, 101 TDs, and just 12 interceptions over his three year college career. He also had over 2,000 yards rushing and added another 28 TDs on the ground. He has remained humble and grown as a leader. He'll have to adjust to a different system and the speed of the game in the NFL just like every rookie quarterback before him, but he has everything you could ask for in a franchise quarterback you are using the #1 pick on....and yet we will listen to talking heads that get paid to make controversy try to tear him apart for the next 6 months and many ignorant fans will buy into it. I won't. He is the pick. It is an easy decision. Some moron that has shown great ability on the field and a complete lack of maturity or character off the field does not make it a difficult decision. It's 100% Mariota. We can turn in our card the morning after the Super Bowl.

      YES LAWD THIS!!!!!

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Mariota has outstanding character and intelligence. He already earned his bachelor’s degree in 2013 and only returned to college this season for football. In the locker room and in the community he has proven to be humble, honest, and have high moral values.On the field he has Elite size and speed. Great arm. Great decision making. He threw for over 10,000 yards, 101 TDs, and just 12 interceptions over his three year college career. He also had over 2,000 yards rushing and added another 28 TDs on the ground. He has remained humble and grown as a leader. He'll have to adjust to a different system and the speed of the game in the NFL just like every rookie quarterback before him, but he has everything you could ask for in a franchise quarterback you are using the #1 pick on....and yet we will listen to talking heads that get paid to make controversy try to tear him apart for the next 6 months and many ignorant fans will buy into it. I won't. He is the pick. It is an easy decision. Some moron that has shown great ability on the field and a complete lack of maturity or character off the field does not make it a difficult decision. It's 100% Mariota. We can turn in our card the morning after the Super Bowl.

      Uh-oh.The curse of J-double!!BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!  :)

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      Mariota has outstanding character and intelligence. He already earned his bachelor’s degree in 2013 and only returned to college this season for football. In the locker room and in the community he has proven to be humble, honest, and have high moral values.On the field he has Elite size and speed. Great arm. Great decision making. He threw for over 10,000 yards, 101 TDs, and just 12 interceptions over his three year college career. He also had over 2,000 yards rushing and added another 28 TDs on the ground. He has remained humble and grown as a leader. He'll have to adjust to a different system and the speed of the game in the NFL just like every rookie quarterback before him, but he has everything you could ask for in a franchise quarterback you are using the #1 pick on....and yet we will listen to talking heads that get paid to make controversy try to tear him apart for the next 6 months and many ignorant fans will buy into it. I won't. He is the pick. It is an easy decision. Some moron that has shown great ability on the field and a complete lack of maturity or character off the field does not make it a difficult decision. It's 100% Mariota. We can turn in our card the morning after the Super Bowl.

      Uh-oh.The curse of J-double!!BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!  :)

      Mariota is gonna get pulled over with 5 kilos of coke now that Jdub has spoken  ;)

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Mariota has outstanding character and intelligence. He already earned his bachelor’s degree in 2013 and only returned to college this season for football. In the locker room and in the community he has proven to be humble, honest, and have high moral values.On the field he has Elite size and speed. Great arm. Great decision making. He threw for over 10,000 yards, 101 TDs, and just 12 interceptions over his three year college career. He also had over 2,000 yards rushing and added another 28 TDs on the ground. He has remained humble and grown as a leader. He'll have to adjust to a different system and the speed of the game in the NFL just like every rookie quarterback before him, but he has everything you could ask for in a franchise quarterback you are using the #1 pick on....and yet we will listen to talking heads that get paid to make controversy try to tear him apart for the next 6 months and many ignorant fans will buy into it. I won't. He is the pick. It is an easy decision. Some moron that has shown great ability on the field and a complete lack of maturity or character off the field does not make it a difficult decision. It's 100% Mariota. We can turn in our card the morning after the Super Bowl.

      Uh-oh.The curse of J-double!!BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!  :)

      Mariota is gonna get pulled over with 5 kilos of coke now that Jdub has spoken  ;)

      Worse.  He will come out and KILL it year 1.  And then get busted with coke the next season...Ahhh...#it'saYucc'slife...I can see how DoubleJ's endorsement is going to piss some of these guys off...better jump off that ship now baby!BA HA HA HA HA!! ;D

    • Anonymous

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      Jdud is trying to reverse troll me by cursing one of my favorite players .Good play , I must admit .

    • Anonymous

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      Jdud is winning so haaard right now.Flat out CURSING Mariota with his glowing endorsement.BA HA HA HA HA!!  I am literally laughing out loud

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1540

      Serious question for the Noles fans (or others) - Trevor Matich (ex-Redskin) was on the radio in the DC area and said that Winston's teammates hate him. Is there any truth to that, or even smoke?

      Not true.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      That's a coaching issue, not a talent issue.

      You're kidding, right?

      Not at all.  Lovie Smith is by far and away the biggest reason this team is 2-12, not any one player or group.  I put approximately 90% of the blame on him.  Hence, "coaching issue".

      That's cute. You think there's talent at QB and on the O-Line.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 6506

      Boid I was hoping to draft Mariota last year when you and most the board were still slobbering over Bridewater. Don’t try to pretend I am just now jumping on the bandwagon. The kid is a stud.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      Boid I was hoping to draft Mariota last year when you and most the board were still slobbering over Bridewater. Don't try to pretend I am just now jumping on the bandwagon. The kid is a stud.

      Damn right he's a stud

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2608

      I am totally on board with Mariota over Winston for all of the reasons he’ll go above Winston; potential, character, athleticism, etc. But I have no doubt in my mind that Winston is currently a superior QB and would be a consensus number one pick if not for being a dummy off the field.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Mariota has outstanding character and intelligence. He already earned his bachelor’s degree in 2013 and only returned to college this season for football. In the locker room and in the community he has proven to be humble, honest, and have high moral values.On the field he has Elite size and speed. Great arm. Great decision making. He threw for over 10,000 yards, 101 TDs, and just 12 interceptions over his three year college career. He also had over 2,000 yards rushing and added another 28 TDs on the ground. He has remained humble and grown as a leader. He'll have to adjust to a different system and the speed of the game in the NFL just like every rookie quarterback before him, but he has everything you could ask for in a franchise quarterback you are using the #1 pick on....and yet we will listen to talking heads that get paid to make controversy try to tear him apart for the next 6 months and many ignorant fans will buy into it. I won't. He is the pick. It is an easy decision. Some moron that has shown great ability on the field and a complete lack of maturity or character off the field does not make it a difficult decision. It's 100% Mariota. We can turn in our card the morning after the Super Bowl.

      Except Mariota will take entirely too long to be ready to adjust to the pro game.  Other than that you are spot on.  He's soft spoken, attached to his homeland Hawaii (now 9 time zones away) and has never had to read a defense for more than 2 seconds in his life.  This will be an easy decision for whatever team gets the first pick. It's Winston and it's not much of a discussion.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1098

      Easy decision? Just about every notable NFL Mock draft to this date has Marcus Mariota as the first QB off the board. It's not an easy decision whatsoever unless you're a biased homer of course.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      I am totally on board with Mariota over Winston for all of the reasons he'll go above Winston; potential, character, athleticism, etc. But I have no doubt in my mind that Winston is currently a superior QB and would be a consensus number one pick if not for being a dummy off the field.

      It's like Randy Moss, Bill Simmons and Chris Rock all said this week.  Dont take the attributes of kindness and good character and apply them to potential for on the field success.  Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler and Brandon Weedon all seem to be great guys but none of them were suited to play in the NFL.  I want someone that leads at all times and can make the tough throws in the pocket when everything is not so pristine.  Someone that doesn't look fragile doesn't need to be told to speak up and can light a fire under this franchises offense. Mariota has some wheels but other than that, he's a project.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Easy decision? Just about every notable NFL Mock draft to this date has Marcus Mariota as the first QB off the board. It's not an easy decision whatsoever unless you're a biased homer of course.

      Every mock a month ago was telling us that Winston had fallen out of the first round.  How about we save our evaluation until the season is finished and see what the experts say then.  Mariota is not a pro style QB.  The history of non pro-style QBs succeeding in the pros is horrible.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5188

      Boid I was hoping to draft Mariota last year when you and most the board were still slobbering over Bridewater. Don't try to pretend I am just now jumping on the bandwagon. The kid is a stud.

      Generalize much?  And I never called your allegiance to The Duck out at all, so you are delusional as well.  And I know he is a stud.  In the right system.  Which is not Tampa Bay, FWIW...I notice a boatload of you guys tend to generalize things.  Show me one page where I "slobbered" over Teddy Ruxpin, who I consistently said was frail looking, and was not on board with.  I did like Manziel, and I still do as a prospect.Was never sold on Teddy B.  Now, about you cursing Marcus Mariota... :)Don't get your panties in a wad bro.  Just messin' with ya.  As a matter of fact, I said I would prefer you to your nemesis, who has done nothing but delight in your departure.  I also don't recall the rest of the board "slobbering" on Teddy B.  A few did, but I thought they were steering on the side of err, myself.  But what do I know.  I am still onboard the Manziel program...ha ha ha!  Time will tell with all these guys.  Year two will tell if Mariota has indeed been cursed by you.  Bwa ha ha!!! (Doloris fumin)

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1098

      And one thing consistent in all that was Mariota as the top QB drafted. " How about we save our evaluation until the season is finished and see what the experts say then"I'm all for it but practice what you preach. Again, and this is coming from a guy preferring to draft Winston right now, this is not an easy decision on the slightest.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      And one thing consistent in all that was Mariota as the top QB drafted. " How about we save our evaluation until the season is finished and see what the experts say then"I'm all for it but practice what you preach. Again, and this is coming from a guy preferring to draft Winston right now, this is not an easy decision on the slightest.

      Winston has the film to show he can play in a pro style offense.  Mariota does not. 

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2608

      I am totally on board with Mariota over Winston for all of the reasons he'll go above Winston; potential, character, athleticism, etc. But I have no doubt in my mind that Winston is currently a superior QB and would be a consensus number one pick if not for being a dummy off the field.

      It's like Randy Moss, Bill Simmons and Chris Rock all said this week.  Dont take the attributes of kindness and good character and apply them to potential for on the field success.  Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler and Brandon Weedon all seem to be great guys but none of them were suited to play in the NFL.  I want someone that leads at all times and can make the tough throws in the pocket when everything is not so pristine.  Someone that doesn't look fragile doesn't need to be told to speak up and can light a fire under this franchises offense. Mariota has some wheels but other than that, he's a project.

      Of course being kind and having good character doesn't mean anything on the field. But no one is drafting Mariota just because he is a nice guy. On the flip side, being an asshole doesn't mean anything on the field, but being dumb enough to steal from a store on video or recognize how yelling vulgar sexual phrases after being accused of rape would make me question whether he can ever mature enough to lead an NFL team. I think Winston is a very intelligent player and very advanced in his skills and if I was convinced that he was just a dumb kid that can mature into what he needs to be as a franchise QB, I would absolutely take him first.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      I am totally on board with Mariota over Winston for all of the reasons he'll go above Winston; potential, character, athleticism, etc. But I have no doubt in my mind that Winston is currently a superior QB and would be a consensus number one pick if not for being a dummy off the field.

      It's like Randy Moss, Bill Simmons and Chris Rock all said this week.  Dont take the attributes of kindness and good character and apply them to potential for on the field success.  Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler and Brandon Weedon all seem to be great guys but none of them were suited to play in the NFL.  I want someone that leads at all times and can make the tough throws in the pocket when everything is not so pristine.  Someone that doesn't look fragile doesn't need to be told to speak up and can light a fire under this franchises offense. Mariota has some wheels but other than that, he's a project.

      Of course being kind and having good character doesn't mean anything on the field. But no one is drafting Mariota just because he is a nice guy. On the flip side, being an asshole doesn't mean anything on the field, but being dumb enough to steal from a store on video or recognize how yelling vulgar sexual phrases after being accused of rape would make me question whether he can ever mature enough to lead an NFL team. I think Winston is a very intelligent player and very advanced in his skills and if I was convinced that he was just a dumb kid that can mature into what he needs to be as a franchise QB, I would absolutely take him first.

      That's right... the decision may have been easier if Winston was such unlikable moron. He's got great talent but the self awareness of a dumbass.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 351

      That's right... the decision may have been easier if Winston was such unlikable moron. He's got great talent but the self awareness of a dumbass.

      The team that drafts him (if he declares) will have to have considerable faith that he will mature and will have to have done its homework to make sure he won't be an off-the-field liability. Because in the current NFL, if he doesn't "mature," then he won't see the field long enough to make any impact.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3169

      That's a coaching issue, not a talent issue.

      You're kidding, right?

      Not at all.  Lovie Smith is by far and away the biggest reason this team is 2-12, not any one player or group.  I put approximately 90% of the blame on him.  Hence, "coaching issue".

      That's cute. You think there's talent at QB and on the O-Line.

      Not really.  But answer me this.  Who put this offensive unit together?  Like I said, it's more a coaching issue than a talent issue.  A good coach will get the right talent and coach it up to make it better.When Morris was fired, the Bucs had the 30th ranked defense.  Even under that bum Schiano, they went to 29 then 17.  The defense was getting markedly better.  Now, under Lovie where the defense was supposed to get even better... back down to 25th.  Simple.  Coaching issue.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 965

      The debate of who the better QB is comes down to probability for me.  Each QB has question marks.  Mariota's questions are related to whether he can convert his skillset to a pro scheme, and if he has the leadership qualities to be a "franchise" QB.Winston's questions seem only to be his maturity and if he'll stay out of trouble off the field.  If he were in the league when the rape allegations came out, he'd likely be on the exempt list like Hardy and Rice.In my opinion, the odds favor Mariota in succeeding because everything I've read points to him being a hard working, competitive guy.  Winston is already a repeat offender in stupidity.  I think either would be a huge upgrade, but if i had to pick one it would be Mariota.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      That's a coaching issue, not a talent issue.

      You're kidding, right?

      Not at all.  Lovie Smith is by far and away the biggest reason this team is 2-12, not any one player or group.  I put approximately 90% of the blame on him.  Hence, "coaching issue".

      That's cute. You think there's talent at QB and on the O-Line.

      Not really. 

      Thank you. Now, let's go draft a franchise guy and fix this o-line.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 456

      Both mariota and Winston seems to have their strengths, but also a weak side that makes the decision difficult who might be the right one.What about  the 2016 class? Why not wait until 2016? Next year we're still going with lovie. Mc Clown will start and we'll have still the first pick.I know, a horror scenario but not that far away.Unfortunately I don't have ESPN to watch college football here in germay so I cannot judge both of them. It would be good to have a video of their dumb decisions also. The highlights are not helpful at all. But I would pick Winston.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1128

      I have to be honest,  the thought of either QB on the Bucs gives me a chub.. You just know whatever guy we don’t take will end up being a stud. I just hope the guy we take will be.. Lovie may want to show as much progress as possible next season, to keep this gig.  If that is the case,  I wouldn’t be surprised if he took Winston.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      That's a coaching issue, not a talent issue.

      You're kidding, right?

      Not at all.  Lovie Smith is by far and away the biggest reason this team is 2-12, not any one player or group.  I put approximately 90% of the blame on him.  Hence, "coaching issue".

      That's cute. You think there's talent at QB and on the O-Line.

      Not really. 

      Thank you. Now, let's go draft a franchise guy and fix this o-line.

      That would be great if there were one.  To me, there isn't.  I'm not a big fan of Mariota.  I find it "cute" that you dodged the real issue of that post, which is, draft a QB doesn't change the fact that this teams biggest problem is their coaching... and that's not changing. 

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Both mariota and Winston seems to have their strengths, but also a weak side that makes the decision difficult who might be the right one.What about  the 2016 class? Why not wait until 2016? Next year we're still going with lovie. Mc Clown will start and we'll have still the first pick.I know, a horror scenario but not that far away.Unfortunately I don't have ESPN to watch college football here in germay so I cannot judge both of them. It would be good to have a video of their dumb decisions also. The highlights are not helpful at all. But I would pick Winston.

      That would be fine if you can guarantee we will have the #1 pick in 2016.  Not likely.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 177

      I am on record as saying I prefer Winston, but, the more I watch of Mariota, the more I like the guy.  He is a freak athlete that is a true dual threat QB.  He will be one of the most gifted athletes on the field, regardless of who we play.  The Bucs have rarely had that kind of athlete of late.  He has great escapability in the pocket, and that can only be a positive behind our offensive line.  He throws well on the run, and seems accurate on most of his throws.  The knock is obviously the system he is in, and, frankly, I have not seen many (if any) highlights where I could say for certainty he made multiple reads before throwing.  I can also say that I have not seen him have to make a lot of throws into tight windows - most of his receivers run wide open or at the very least get separation.  That said, it doesn't mean that he can't do these things.  I think my biggest question at this point is why in the heck would any team want to turn him into a pure pocket passer?  Why can't we put this guy into a QB-friendly system, at least intially, that will highlight his athleticism and take pressure off him in making reads while he develops?  Why not a read-option/spread system like he is in now?  He is one of the most prolific college QBs in the history of the sport.  Why would anyone want to change him, at least intially?  All rookie QBs are going to struggle to some extent.  Why wouldn't the Bucs (or any other team) try to minimize this guy's learning curve by keeping him in a familiar system and developing him from within that system?  It might not be a permanent solution for the offense, but it at least would minimize his initial learnign curve and take advantage of his elite athleticism.The simple answer, I know, is Lovie, but Mariota is already proven to be special in the right surroundings.  Why would you create question marks by forcing him into a scheme that might not suit him.  Seems to me the ONLY questions about Mariota are whether he can make the adjustment into another "pro-style" system.  if you are going to invest a #1 pick on a guy that is THIS gifted athletically, then seems that HE should be the system and you should build the parts around his strengths.  Let the best athlete on the field be the best athlete on the field.  If this is the plan, then it is hard to argue against taking Mariota. 

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      I am on record as saying I prefer Winston, but, the more I watch of Mariota, the more I like the guy.  He is a freak athlete that is a true dual threat QB.  He will be one of the most gifted athletes on the field, regardless of who we play.  The Bucs have rarely had that kind of athlete of late.  He has great escapability in the pocket, and that can only be a positive behind our offensive line.  He throws well on the run, and seems accurate on most of his throws.  The knock is obviously the system he is in, and, frankly, I have not seen many (if any) highlights where I could say for certainty he made multiple reads before throwing.  I can also say that I have not seen him have to make a lot of throws into tight windows - most of his receivers run wide open or at the very least get separation.  That said, it doesn't mean that he can't do these things.  I think my biggest question at this point is why in the heck would any team want to turn him into a pure pocket passer?  Why can't we put this guy into a QB-friendly system, at least intially, that will highlight his athleticism and take pressure off him in making reads while he develops?  Why not a read-option/spread system like he is in now?  He is one of the most prolific college QBs in the history of the sport.  Why would anyone want to change him, at least intially?  All rookie QBs are going to struggle to some extent.  Why wouldn't the Bucs (or any other team) try to minimize this guy's learning curve by keeping him in a familiar system and developing him from within that system?  It might not be a permanent solution for the offense, but it at least would minimize his initial learnign curve and take advantage of his elite athleticism.The simple answer, I know, is Lovie, but Mariota is already proven to be special in the right surroundings.  Why would you create question marks by forcing him into a scheme that might not suit him.  Seems to me the ONLY questions about Mariota are whether he can make the adjustment into another "pro-style" system.  if you are going to invest a #1 pick on a guy that is THIS gifted athletically, then seems that HE should be the system and you should build the parts around his strengths.  Let the best athlete on the field be the best athlete on the field.  If this is the plan, then it is hard to argue against taking Mariota.

      With Loviesaurus Rex in there, it won’t really matter who we have in the QB chair.  He is not concerned with the QB position as nearly as much as every other coach in the NFL is…which is just senility.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Prospect? Winston is a much better prospect.  Mariota, like Aaron Rodgers, would benefit from 4 years of sitting the bench and learning the pro game. 

    • richhussey

      Participant
      Post count: 499

      Just trade back up into the top 5 after getting one of them and get the other. May as well just toss in next years 1st rounder this year and give us better odds at a franchise QB now.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      Prospect? Winston is a much better prospect.  Mariota, like Aaron Rodgers, would benefit from 4 years of sitting the bench and learning the pro game.

      Does Winston know the pro game?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      One thing to consider with both of them.  In the off season there is the combine, Pro days and private workouts that will certainly be done plus an assortment of “clinics” where players can both display and improve their craft. Most of the negatives that people apply to Mariota, like taking snaps from under center, can at least be seen and evaluated during the above events. No it's not the same as live game play, but you can still see the actual mechanics of the player performing the drill. At the very least you can get a much better feel for his ability.Sadly for Winston, the only opportunity to counter his negatives (immaturity) is through one on one interviews and how he handles himself in the off season.  But people also know that at this time all draft prospects (well most) are on their best behavior and say all the right things even if its not what they truly believe.So we shall see how it evolves.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Prospect? Winston is a much better prospect.  Mariota, like Aaron Rodgers, would benefit from 4 years of sitting the bench and learning the pro game.

      Does Winston know the pro game?

      He is in a pro-style offense.  Having that experience helps a ton when it comes to being a solid pro.  Look at Luck vs. RGIII as an example.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6506

      Mariota, like Aaron Rodgers....

      I agree. Mariota is a lot like Aaron Rodgers. Good call.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Mariota, like Aaron Rodgers....

      I agree. Mariota is a lot like Aaron Rodgers 48 months from now. Good call.

      FIFY

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Just trade back up into the top 5 after getting one of them and get the other. May as well just toss in next years 1st rounder this year and give us better odds at a franchise QB now.

      funny

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      With Loviesaurus Rex in there, it won't really matter who we have in the QB chair.  He is not concerned with the QB position as nearly as much as every other coach in the NFL is...which is just senility.

      Hiring a innovative OC will take care of that problem IMO.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Mariota, like Aaron Rodgers....

      I agree. Mariota is a lot like Aaron Rodgers 48 months from now. Good call.

      FIFY

      And you have a problem with that? You can't be serious, right? Well, you did think Glennon was elite afterall...

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Mariota, like Aaron Rodgers....

      I agree. Mariota is a lot like Aaron Rodgers 48 months from now. Good call.

      FIFY

      And you have a problem with that? You can't be serious, right? Well, you did think Glennon was elite afterall...

      Yeah, let's wait until 2018 to start to compete again with this year's first overall pick. Brilliant message to the fan base and season ticket holders.

    • mjarvis1

      Participant
      Post count: 544

      Andrew Luck is Andrew Luck. RG3 is RG3.  Mostly, RG3'S lack of success can be attributed to his poor work ethic. Mariota is quite the opposite. Wilson puts in the effort and he has been successful despite his limitations.Who do you think will put in more effort: Winston or Mariota?

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Andrew Luck is Andrew Luck. RG3 is RG3.  Mostly, RG3'S lack of success can be attributed to his poor work ethic. Mariota is quite the opposite. Wilson puts in the effort and he has been successful despite his limitations.Who do you think will put in more effort: Winston or Mariota?

      Winston's work ethic is legendary at FSU.  I only know Mariota to cry and long for the Hawaiian Islands.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1098

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6506

      Andrew Luck is Andrew Luck. RG3 is RG3.  Mostly, RG3'S lack of success can be attributed to his poor work ethic. Mariota is quite the opposite. Wilson puts in the effort and he has been successful despite his limitations.Who do you think will put in more effort: Winston or Mariota?

      Winston's theft and rape skills are legendary at FSU. He has also been known to (censored) her right in the pussay!!

      FIFY

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Mariota, like Aaron Rodgers....

      I agree. Mariota is a lot like Aaron Rodgers 48 months from now. Good call.

      FIFY

      And you have a problem with that? You can't be serious, right? Well, you did think Glennon was elite afterall...

      Yeah, let's wait until 2018 to start to compete again with this year's first overall pick. Brilliant message to the fan base and season ticket holders.

      So you get Rodgers in 3-4 years and because you have to wait for it, it's not good enough? Ask nearly every GM in the league and they'd beg to have a #1 overall pick that turned out to be Rodgers in a few years down the road. This has nothing to do with Mariota, it's simply your continuous retarded crushes based off of your biased homerism. You further hammered that home with your "all I know is he cries and longs for the Hawaiian islands" crap.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Mariota, like Aaron Rodgers....

      I agree. Mariota is a lot like Aaron Rodgers 48 months from now. Good call.

      FIFY

      And you have a problem with that? You can't be serious, right? Well, you did think Glennon was elite afterall...

      Yeah, let's wait until 2018 to start to compete again with this year's first overall pick. Brilliant message to the fan base and season ticket holders.

      So you get Rodgers in 3-4 years and because you have to wait for it, it's not good enough? Ask nearly every GM in the league and they'd beg to have a #1 overall pick that turned out to be Rodgers in a few years down the road. This has nothing to do with Mariota, it's simply your continuous retarded crushes based off of your biased homerism. You further hammered that home with your "all I know is he cries and longs for the Hawaiian islands" crap.

      Look.  You dont like the way I post.  I get it.  You can say Mariota has every right to cry based on him earning the most prestigious award in college sports.  I look at it differently and you think that its because I am a homer.  It's not.  Winston is more prepared to play at a very high level in the NFL and Mariota is not.  We dont have Favre to sell tickets for the next four years.  The owners can placate the masses with a four year plan.  SO if you think for one minute that a GM, whose job depends on success right away when you are 2-14, would be thrilled to have Rodgers in 3-4 years, I say, you  are completely out of your mind. 

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Andrew Luck is Andrew Luck. RG3 is RG3.  Mostly, RG3'S lack of success can be attributed to his poor work ethic. Mariota is quite the opposite. Wilson puts in the effort and he has been successful despite his limitations.Who do you think will put in more effort: Winston or Mariota?

      Winston's work ethic is legendary at FSU. 

      Is that well documented? And if his work ethic is so legendary, tell me what does he do better this year than last year? He even looks a little more fluffy.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      Winston is more prepared to play at a very high level in the NFL and Mariota is not.  We dont have Favre to sell tickets for the next four years.  The owners can placate the masses with a four year plan.  SO if you think for one minute that a GM, whose job depends on success right away when you are 2-14, would be thrilled to have Rodgers in 3-4 years, I say, you  are completely out of your mind. [/b]

      I'm not a fan of Winston, but that's because I don't trust him to be mature enough to handle the NFL lifestyle.  That said, I agree completely with everything here.  Any GM who drafts a QB and it takes him 4 years to see the field because the HC doesn't think he's ready, is a GM who will not be employed by that team at that point in time... and most likely, neither will that HC.I also agree that, on the field, Winston is much more prepared for the NFL and I believe he has a much greater chance to succeed in the NFL.  That said, I don't think EITHER QB will maximize his potential if Lovie Smith is his head coach.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Look.  You dont like the way I post.  I get it.

      Nobody does. You have, on numerous occasions, simply made up stories to support your argument. You've been called out on it. I'll safely assume it speaks volumes about your character in real life.

      You can say Mariota has every right to cry based on him earning the most prestigious award in college sports.  I look at it differently and you think that its because I am a homer.  It's not. 

      Who in the hell cares if he gets teared up after winning an award he's worked hard in earning? I sure as hell don't.

      Winston is more prepared to play at a very high level in the NFL and Mariota is not.  We dont have Favre to sell tickets for the next four years.

        Never said Winston wasn't. But, it's also clear that Mariota is more prepared to handle the off-the-field pressures that will come with being a pro player than Jameis.

      The owners can placate the masses with a four year plan.  SO if you think for one minute that a GM, whose job depends on success right away when you are 2-14, would be thrilled to have Rodgers in 3-4 years, I say, you  are completely out of your mind.

      Aren't you the one who keeps preaching about building for the long run and not simply trying to sell jerseys? You have to wait for 2-4 years and you get Aaron Rodgers?!? Sorry, I'll take that kind of success all day and every freaking day of the week. Rome wasn't built in a day.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      With Loviesaurus Rex in there, it won't really matter who we have in the QB chair.  He is not concerned with the QB position as nearly as much as every other coach in the NFL is...which is just senility.

      Hiring a innovative OC will take care of that problem IMO.

      bahahaha how long did you have to look at it before you hit post? you know ith Lovie here that just wont happen

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 278

      Andrew Luck is Andrew Luck. RG3 is RG3.  Mostly, RG3'S lack of success can be attributed to his poor work ethic. Mariota is quite the opposite. Wilson puts in the effort and he has been successful despite his limitations.Who do you think will put in more effort: Winston or Mariota?

      Winston's work ethic is legendary at FSU.  I only know Mariota to cry and long for the Hawaiian Islands.

      Posts like this just further cement your "legendary" status on these boards as the site's biggest douchebag. Why let the truth get in the way of a good board troll???

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Andrew Luck is Andrew Luck. RG3 is RG3.  Mostly, RG3'S lack of success can be attributed to his poor work ethic. Mariota is quite the opposite. Wilson puts in the effort and he has been successful despite his limitations.Who do you think will put in more effort: Winston or Mariota?

      Winston's work ethic is legendary at FSU.  I only know Mariota to cry and long for the Hawaiian Islands.

      Posts like this just further cement your "legendary" status on these boards as the site's biggest douchebag. Why let the truth get in the way of a good board troll???

      Noctus - If you think his personal constitution is strong enough to live in Tampa, sit on the bench in humidity and never play for a few seasons, and never ever play with as much offensive impact as he has in Eugene, than more power to you.  I'll take a pass on that act myself.  Your personal attacks on me are quite entertaining.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Nobody does. You have, on numerous occasions, simply made up stories to support your argument. You’ve been called out on it. I’ll safely assume it speaks volumes about your character in real life.

      I'm glad you speak for the whole board.

      Never said Winston wasn't. But, it's also clear that Mariota is more prepared to handle the off-the-field pressures that will come with being a pro player than Jameis.

      You have no idea how prepared Jamies is to handle the off the season obstacles of an NFL player.  Maybe because he's been through some stuff already he's more prepared than most.  Mariota may freak out when he's away from the embryonic sac that is Eugene, OR.  There is no way to tell based on their current situations, that's for sure.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 801

      http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/286308701.html

      "It's not a very good group," an AFC personnel executive said. "After the first two, you're throwing darts."Even Mariota and Winston, neither of those guys is [Andrew] Luck. Mariota is closer to Luck than Winston as far as being pro-ready. They're both better than [Blake] Bortles, who was the first quarterback taken last year. They're both better than [Ryan] Tannehill when he came out. But neither of them is a slam dunk."The executive said Michigan State's Connor Cook also would likely have been a first-rounder, maybe even a top-10 pick, if he had come out. But he announced earlier this week that he is returning to East Lansing for his final season.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/286308701.html

      "It's not a very good group," an AFC personnel executive said. "After the first two, you're throwing darts."Even Mariota and Winston, neither of those guys is [Andrew] Luck. Mariota is closer to Luck than Winston as far as being pro-ready. They're both better than [Blake] Bortles, who was the first quarterback taken last year. They're both better than [Ryan] Tannehill when he came out. But neither of them is a slam dunk."The executive said Michigan State's Connor Cook also would likely have been a first-rounder, maybe even a top-10 pick, if he had come out. But he announced earlier this week that he is returning to East Lansing for his final season.

      Give the guys name or the whole story was completely made up.  I have heard of no analyst or executive that said from an on the field upside perspective they would ever draft Mariota before Winston. 

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/286308701.html"It's not a very good group," an AFC personnel executive said. "After the first two, you're throwing darts."Even Mariota and Winston, neither of those guys is [Andrew] Luck. Mariota is closer to Luck than Winston as far as being pro-ready. They're both better than [Blake] Bortles, who was the first quarterback taken last year. They're both better than [Ryan] Tannehill when he came out. But neither of them is a slam dunk."The executive said Michigan State's Connor Cook also would likely have been a first-rounder, maybe even a top-10 pick, if he had come out. But he announced earlier this week that he is returning to East Lansing for his final season.

      http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/12/19/mariota-vs-winston-charles-davis-breaks-it-down/“Winston is a physical specimen. He doesn’t move as well as Mariota, trust me on this, but when you’re talking about being the most pro-ready right now, Winston is. Plays much more of a pro style system.”It depends on who you talk to.  From things that I've read and heard, Winston is the most "on-the-field" ready of the two, but Mariota gets the overall nod because he's not a jail sentence waiting to happen.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Nobody does. You have, on numerous occasions, simply made up stories to support your argument. You've been called out on it. I'll safely assume it speaks volumes about your character in real life.

      I'm glad you speak for the whole board.I'm not. It's well documented.

      Never said Winston wasn't. But, it's also clear that Mariota is more prepared to handle the off-the-field pressures that will come with being a pro player than Jameis.

      You have no idea how prepared Jamies is to handle the off the season obstacles of an NFL player.  Maybe because he's been through some stuff already he's more prepared than most.  Mariota may freak out when he's away from the embryonic sac that is Eugene, OR.  There is no way to tell based on their current situations, that's for sure.

      And you have no idea either. Maybe because he's been through some stuff already it's shown that it's just the type of guy that he is. And becoming a millionaire may simply make matters worse. Embryonic sac that is Eugene, OR? Continuing to reach there, Sally? Well, scary to think how Winston would freak out once he hits Ybor after leaving his sac that is Tallahassee.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Stop claiming the offense Winston plays in will have him more nfl ready. Jimbo has put 3 high profile 1st rounders onto the nfl ( Ponder , Manuel , and Jamarcus Russell ) , and they’ve all looked completely lost and clueless at the next level.You can either play or you cant. This "system qb " crap is nonsense.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      Stop claiming the offense Winston plays in will have him more nfl ready. Jimbo has put 3 high profile 1st rounders onto the nfl ( Ponder , Manuel , and Jamarcus Russell ) , and they've all looked completely lost and clueless at the next level.

      oh snap

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Stop claiming the offense Winston plays in will have him more nfl ready. Jimbo has put 3 high profile 1st rounders onto the nfl ( Ponder , Manuel , and Jamarcus Russell ) , and they've all looked completely lost and clueless at the next level.You can either play or you cant. This "system qb " crap is nonsense.

      Winston is a far superior prospect compared to those 3 players.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Actually he is a very similiar prospect to what Russell was , and that doesnt disprove the point anyway: none were ready for the nfl.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Actually he is a very similiar prospect to what Russell was , and that doesnt disprove the point anyway: none were ready for the nfl.

      We'll simply have to agree to disagree. I think Winston is far more NFL ready than the previous 3 that you mentioned. I think he'll put up better numbers in his rookie campaign than any of the rookies from this year's class. Now, the talks of how Winston was "pro-ready at the age of 17" and the "he'll waltz through NFL defenses from the start" is ridiculous. But, considering the source...

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Well you are actually agreeing with me in a way .You are simply saying Winston is a better player than those others on his own merit. Thats my point . If Winston is good it will be because of Winston , not because he is ” better prepared “If the system mattered the 3 guys i mentioned would have looked better prepared when they hit the nfl.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Well you are actually agreeing with me in a way .You are simply saying Winston is a better player than those others on his own merit. Thats my point . If Winston is good it will be because of Winston , not because he is " better prepared "If the system mattered the 3 guys i mentioned would have looked better prepared when they hit the nfl.

      There is no "system" at FSU.  It's a pro-style offense where plays and percentages are played based on match ups.  We even have some elements of the read option in our playbook on occasion.  Every QB will succeed or fail based on their own merits.  Mariota's system in college, makes him less prepared to play in the pros IMO.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Every offense is a system. WTF dude …

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 830

      Actually he is a very similiar prospect to what Russell was , and that doesnt disprove the point anyway: none were ready for the nfl.

      Pretty lazy comparison. It's like saying Mariota is the next Tebow because both come from a gimmick system.

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      With Loviesaurus Rex in there, it won't really matter who we have in the QB chair.  He is not concerned with the QB position as nearly as much as every other coach in the NFL is...which is just senility.

      Hiring a innovative OC will take care of that problem IMO.

      bahahaha how long did you have to look at it before you hit post? you know ith Lovie here that just wont happen

      Well, he did hire Tedford.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Stop claiming the offense Winston plays in will have him more nfl ready. Jimbo has put 3 high profile 1st rounders onto the nfl ( Ponder , Manuel , and Jamarcus Russell ) , and they've all looked completely lost and clueless at the next level.You can either play or you cant. This "system qb " crap is nonsense.

      Well Winston “could” much better than the prospects you listed. Jamarcus was lazy. Notoriously egotistical and lazy to the hilt. His OC gave him a tape to study over the course of a few days. When asked by his coordinator what he thought of the breakdown, he said it looked good. It was a blank video. He lied. He was a victim of his own fat, lazy self. Ponder was a major reach by the Vikes and everyone knew it but them. So that was just a stupid move on Ziggy's behalf (or whoever the rock head was that decided picking Ponder was a god idea. And Manuel was a half field read QB. He was always asked to read one half of a field and fun check it or bail. He was never pro ready, and again, he was a healthy reach by Doug Marrone. And h knows it now. Winston is leaps and bounds a better prospect than these duds. He is a fiery leader. Anyone ever see a team he was on, lose?  Sounds irrelevant, but still fun to say. He can climb a pocket, and he can actually turn his head to read the other half of he field that EJ Manuel was never asked to acknowledge.  Much like Sam Bradford, I have my reservations about Mariota because of the system he is one (Bradford never called audibles, nor his own plays...he looked to the sidelines for instuctions????). It is as simple as that. It is a gimmicky, gadget, uptempo style that completely spits in the golem like face of Loviesaurus. Do you think Smith is going to have an uptempo offensive team that will inevitably wear his defense to a nub as a result of time of possession discrepancies?  Hell. No. If you believe that you are flat out ridicutarded. Stop. But perhaps Marcus the Duck-Buc has the ability to play in a traditional Lovie iffense and thrive. Believe that?  Me either. HE wouldnt know what to do with a horse like Marcus the BucDuckSuey. Winston has character issues. Do I see Jamarcus?  No. Do I see Ponder?  Cmon man. Manuel?  He was never ready, and Doug Syracuse Marrone blew it. He should have researched th fact the kid had a dumbed down offense. Winston has a good arm. Has qualities that make him a legit candidate for he 1 spot. If he can pull his head out, he will be a quality player in the NFL. But give that kid a bro is truck of cash and who knows?  He may calm down. We k is Mariota will be steady as can be. Lovie and Marcus together?  Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Stop claiming the offense Winston plays in will have him more nfl ready. Jimbo has put 3 high profile 1st rounders onto the nfl ( Ponder , Manuel , and Jamarcus Russell ) , and they've all looked completely lost and clueless at the next level.You can either play or you cant. This "system qb " crap is nonsense.

      Well Winston "could" much better than the prospects you listed. Jamarcus was lazy. Notoriously egotistical and lazy to the hilt. His OC gave him a tape to study over the course of a few days. When asked by his coordinator what he thought of the breakdown, he said it looked good. It was a blank video. He lied. He was a victim of his own fat, lazy self. Ponder was a major reach by the Vikes and everyone knew it but them. So that was just a stupid move on Ziggy's behalf (or whoever the rock head was that decided picking Ponder was a god idea. And Manuel was a half field read QB. He was always asked to read one half of a field and fun check it or bail. He was never pro ready, and again, he was a healthy reach by Doug Marrone. And h knows it now. Winston is leaps and bounds a better prospect than these duds. He is a fiery leader. Anyone ever see a team he was on, lose?  Sounds irrelevant, but still fun to say. He can climb a pocket, and he can actually turn his head to read the other half of he field that EJ Manuel was never asked to acknowledge.  Much like Sam Bradford, I have my reservations about Mariota because of the system he is one (Bradford never called audibles, nor his own plays...he looked to the sidelines for instuctions????). It is as simple as that. It is a gimmicky, gadget, uptempo style that completely spits in the golem like face of Loviesaurus. Do you think Smith is going to have an uptempo offensive team that will inevitably wear his defense to a nub as a result of time of possession discrepancies?  Hell. No. If you believe that you are flat out ridicutarded. Stop. But perhaps Marcus the Duck-Buc has the ability to play in a traditional Lovie iffense and thrive. Believe that?  Me either. HE wouldnt know what to do with a horse like Marcus the BucDuckSuey. Winston has character issues. Do I see Jamarcus?  No. Do I see Ponder?  Cmon man. Manuel?  He was never ready, and Doug Syracuse Marrone blew it. He should have researched th fact the kid had a dumbed down offense. Winston has a good arm. Has qualities that make him a legit candidate for he 1 spot. If he can pull his head out, he will be a quality player in the NFL. But give that kid a bro is truck of cash and who knows?  He may calm down. We k is Mariota will be steady as can be. Lovie and Marcus together?  Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

      How about this chain of command?Lovie>>>>>Innovative OC>>>>>>Mariota

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 273

      Stop claiming the offense Winston plays in will have him more nfl ready. Jimbo has put 3 high profile 1st rounders onto the nfl ( Ponder , Manuel , and Jamarcus Russell ) , and they've all looked completely lost and clueless at the next level.You can either play or you cant. This "system qb " crap is nonsense.

      Well Winston "could" much better than the prospects you listed. Jamarcus was lazy. Notoriously egotistical and lazy to the hilt. His OC gave him a tape to study over the course of a few days. When asked by his coordinator what he thought of the breakdown, he said it looked good. It was a blank video. He lied. He was a victim of his own fat, lazy self. Ponder was a major reach by the Vikes and everyone knew it but them. So that was just a stupid move on Ziggy's behalf (or whoever the rock head was that decided picking Ponder was a god idea. And Manuel was a half field read QB. He was always asked to read one half of a field and fun check it or bail. He was never pro ready, and again, he was a healthy reach by Doug Marrone. And h knows it now. Winston is leaps and bounds a better prospect than these duds. He is a fiery leader. Anyone ever see a team he was on, lose?  Sounds irrelevant, but still fun to say. He can climb a pocket, and he can actually turn his head to read the other half of he field that EJ Manuel was never asked to acknowledge.  Much like Sam Bradford, I have my reservations about Mariota because of the system he is one (Bradford never called audibles, nor his own plays...he looked to the sidelines for instuctions????). It is as simple as that. It is a gimmicky, gadget, uptempo style that completely spits in the golem like face of Loviesaurus. Do you think Smith is going to have an uptempo offensive team that will inevitably wear his defense to a nub as a result of time of possession discrepancies?  Hell. No. If you believe that you are flat out ridicutarded. Stop. But perhaps Marcus the Duck-Buc has the ability to play in a traditional Lovie iffense and thrive. Believe that?  Me either. HE wouldnt know what to do with a horse like Marcus the BucDuckSuey. Winston has character issues. Do I see Jamarcus?  No. Do I see Ponder?  Cmon man. Manuel?  He was never ready, and Doug Syracuse Marrone blew it. He should have researched th fact the kid had a dumbed down offense. Winston has a good arm. Has qualities that make him a legit candidate for he 1 spot. If he can pull his head out, he will be a quality player in the NFL. But give that kid a bro is truck of cash and who knows?  He may calm down. We k is Mariota will be steady as can be. Lovie and Marcus together?  Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

      How about this chain of command?Lovie>>>>>Innovative OC>>>>>>Mariota

      that would absolutely be ideal, I really hope we end up with Mariota, dude is a stud, and i really hope lovie gets a creative OC to utilize him well

    • mjarvis1

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      Well you are actually agreeing with me in a way .You are simply saying Winston is a better player than those others on his own merit. Thats my point . If Winston is good it will be because of Winston , not because he is " better prepared "If the system mattered the 3 guys i mentioned would have looked better prepared when they hit the nfl.

      There is no "system" at FSU.  It's a pro-style offense where plays and percentages are played based on match ups.  We even have some elements of the read option in our playbook on occasion.  Every QB will succeed or fail based on their own merits.  Mariota's system in college, makes him less prepared to play in the pros IMO.

      Every team plays in a system... this argument is counter-intuitive. Does every team in the NFL run the EXACT offense that FSU runs? The answer is NO. They both with have to adapt. They both will have new playbooks. They both have to put in the work and be ready for the learning curve. Does Winston call a lot of audibles and when he does, are they successful? Calling an audible for the sake of doing it means nothing

    • Anonymous

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      Mariota has outstanding character and intelligence. He already earned his bachelor’s degree in 2013 and only returned to college this season for football. In the locker room and in the community he has proven to be humble, honest, and have high moral values.On the field he has Elite size and speed. Great arm. Great decision making. He threw for over 10,000 yards, 101 TDs, and just 12 interceptions over his three year college career. He also had over 2,000 yards rushing and added another 28 TDs on the ground. He has remained humble and grown as a leader. He'll have to adjust to a different system and the speed of the game in the NFL just like every rookie quarterback before him, but he has everything you could ask for in a franchise quarterback you are using the #1 pick on....and yet we will listen to talking heads that get paid to make controversy try to tear him apart for the next 6 months and many ignorant fans will buy into it. I won't. He is the pick. It is an easy decision. Some moron that has shown great ability on the field and a complete lack of maturity or character off the field does not make it a difficult decision. It's 100% Mariota. We can turn in our card the morning after the Super Bowl.

      All of this.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 801

      Stop claiming the offense Winston plays in will have him more nfl ready. Jimbo has put 3 high profile 1st rounders onto the nfl ( Ponder , Manuel , and Jamarcus Russell ) , and they've all looked completely lost and clueless at the next level.You can either play or you cant. This "system qb " crap is nonsense.

      Well Winston "could" much better than the prospects you listed. Jamarcus was lazy. Notoriously egotistical and lazy to the hilt. His OC gave him a tape to study over the course of a few days. When asked by his coordinator what he thought of the breakdown, he said it looked good. It was a blank video. He lied. He was a victim of his own fat, lazy self. Ponder was a major reach by the Vikes and everyone knew it but them. So that was just a stupid move on Ziggy's behalf (or whoever the rock head was that decided picking Ponder was a god idea. And Manuel was a half field read QB. He was always asked to read one half of a field and fun check it or bail. He was never pro ready, and again, he was a healthy reach by Doug Marrone. And h knows it now. Winston is leaps and bounds a better prospect than these duds. He is a fiery leader. Anyone ever see a team he was on, lose?  Sounds irrelevant, but still fun to say. He can climb a pocket, and he can actually turn his head to read the other half of he field that EJ Manuel was never asked to acknowledge.  Much like Sam Bradford, I have my reservations about Mariota because of the system he is one (Bradford never called audibles, nor his own plays...he looked to the sidelines for instuctions????). It is as simple as that. It is a gimmicky, gadget, uptempo style that completely spits in the golem like face of Loviesaurus. Do you think Smith is going to have an uptempo offensive team that will inevitably wear his defense to a nub as a result of time of possession discrepancies?  Hell. No. If you believe that you are flat out ridicutarded. Stop. But perhaps Marcus the Duck-Buc has the ability to play in a traditional Lovie iffense and thrive. Believe that?  Me either. HE wouldnt know what to do with a horse like Marcus the BucDuckSuey. Winston has character issues. Do I see Jamarcus?  No. Do I see Ponder?  Cmon man. Manuel?  He was never ready, and Doug Syracuse Marrone blew it. He should have researched th fact the kid had a dumbed down offense. Winston has a good arm. Has qualities that make him a legit candidate for he 1 spot. If he can pull his head out, he will be a quality player in the NFL. But give that kid a bro is truck of cash and who knows?  He may calm down. We k is Mariota will be steady as can be. Lovie and Marcus together?  Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

      How about this chain of command?Lovie>>>>>Innovative OC>>>>>>Mariota

      that would absolutely be ideal, I really hope we end up with Mariota, dude is a stud, and i really hope lovie gets a creative OC to utilize him well

      This would be perfect, but again it comes back to who we hire as our OC.

    • Anonymous

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      It’s sad that these threads have become more interesting than the team itself.

    • Anonymous

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      Lol @ Jamarcus being a lazy comparison.Both supremely talented  , and both complete dumbasses off the field. Both showing early on a tendency towards putting on weight . Winston came in borderline fat this season.The comparison is scarily close. Denial aint just a river in Egypt.But , hey , never fear. Russell was " pro ready" thanks to Jimbo's pro style system...

    • Anonymous

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      A “lazy” comparison?  I didn’t say that. I swear people get it twisted. Or twist to make it fit. I said he was a lazy bum. And he was. It was well documented the slob didn't put in work. He didn't study film (the Raiders story is completely true...he never even looked at the tape, and lied to his OC about it...it was a blank!). His weight gain was astronomical...350 pounds is a league away from 235-240!  And Jamarcus didn't have functional mobility like Jameis. Jameis is very very smart, and very immature. Jamarcus was dumb to the hilt. All Jamarcus could do was sling the ball 109 yards downfield, and was a hard target to bring down. He threw it harder than practically anyone not named Elway. Jameis won't turn into Jared Lorenzen...that's laughable. Winston puts in work. I like Marcus as well. But he has that funky offense behind him, and Lovie is anti-funk. Oil meet water. Wasted, ABSOLUTELY WASTED pick with Loviesaurus as the coach, regardless of the OC. He isn't hiring a fast past OC. It ain't happening. And he won't expose his defense like that. Never in a million. He has enough to deal with cleaning his name up after this debacle. Lovie wouldn't know what to do with Mariota. And he wouldn't let an innovative, "speed in space" coach run his Old Ironsides. This is his ship man.

    • Marcia

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      Lol @ Jamarcus being a lazy comparison.Both supremely talented  , and both complete dumbasses off the field. Both showing early on a tendency towards putting on weight . Winston came in borderline fat this season.The comparison is scarily close. Denial aint just a river in Egypt.But , hey , never fear. Russell was " pro ready" thanks to Jimbo's pro style system...

      First of all, not every OC runs a system.  In fact, Kelly himself is insulted by calling him a system coach.  The more I watch him in the pros I believe him.  He calls plays. Plays based on what the defense gives him.  Running to grass type concepts that have worked to a degree thus far.  Comparing Jameis to Russell is about as lazy a comparison as any I have seen.  It's a fan of UF or someone that doesn't like FSU taking a dig at Jimbo because that is all they have.  Do you still think Derrick Brooks and Warrick Dunn are going to be busts as well?Winston has played in a pro style offense where he is forced to read defenses, go through his progressions and make pro style throws.  He's pretty good at it.  He is the only QB to play against 5 of the top 15 defenses in the FBS and while he has had his problems he has ended up on the right side of all of the games he's played thus far.  Mariota may be a hard worker and may learn to QB in a pro system but he's not ready today and it's not something he's going to pick up over night.  He will need to have an OC with a  history of developing QBs work with him and preferably work under a QB that knows what he's doing and both on our roster either have no idea what they are doing or dont have the experience to assist with mentoring. 

    • Anonymous

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      I was talking to xfactor , Boid. He said lazy comparison.

    • Anonymous

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      Lol @ ” not every OC runs a system”. You are hillarious , Rod.

    • Marcia

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      Lol @ " not every OC runs a system". You are hillarious , Rod.

      Define a system for me DJ.  Once you write out what defines a system, you will realize how wrong you are.  There are few systems in the pros.  Just plays.

    • Anonymous

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      Lol @ Jamarcus being a lazy comparison.Both supremely talented  , and both complete dumbasses off the field. Both showing early on a tendency towards putting on weight . Winston came in borderline fat this season.The comparison is scarily close. Denial aint just a river in Egypt.

      Ohh I thought you were comparing them on the field, off the field maybe, who knows. Although I don't recall Russell getting in much trouble at LSU.  Don't think he got in trouble for anything until after he busted in the NFL. Russell weighed in at 265 at the combine, not worried about Winston he's actually a hard worker. Winston isn't in that weight class, lol. Actually nevermind that is still a horrible and lazy comparison.

    • Anonymous

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      So if you run plays you dont have a system ? Lol. Oregon just runs play too. A lot of the same plays Seattle , San Fran , and Philly run.

    • Anonymous

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      Its true that although Russell and Winston are both notorious idiots , JaMarcus got in much less trouble in college Congrats , Xfactor. That really strengthens your argument for Winston. Lol

    • Anonymous

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      Winston takes a full class schedule, plays baseball and football and remains undefeated. Mariota is the underwater basket weaver and yoga class aficionado that struggles to complete a NFL level pass.

    • Anonymous

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      Mariota takes those easy courses because he graduated two years early. That argument is not going to work for you Im afraid.

    • Anonymous

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      Which means he’s either lazy or incapable at developing his skills. Neither of those work for me.

    • Anonymous

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      Lolz

    • Anonymous

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      Like I said it’s a lazy comparison. Anyone that thinks there is not a risk taking Winston with his off the field issues is a homer.  But there isn’t really a comparison on the field, Boid Fink nailed it with his post about how different they are. Big Ben is a better comparison on the field and off the field.

    • Anonymous

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      idk…  Russell was known for those late game comebacks that Just Winston is racking up.

    • Marcia

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      idk...  Russell was known for those late game comebacks that Just Winston is racking up.

      Russell and Winston's games and personality couldn't be more different. We need a leader in Tampa. Jameis is definitely that. Russell never was. No on field personality at all.

    • Anonymous

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      Winston takes a full class schedule, plays baseball and football and remains undefeated. Mariota is the underwater basket weaver and yoga class aficionado that struggles to complete a NFL level pass.

      The class criticism for Mariota is obviously nonsense, but in terms of struggling to complete a NFL level pass, that is also inaccurate. He hasn't had to do it a lot, so we really have no idea whether he'd struggle or not. He hasn't ever struggled at anything in college.

    • Anonymous

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      idk...  Russell was known for those late game comebacks that Just Winston is racking up.

      Russell and Winston's games and personality couldn't be more different. We need a leader in Tampa. Jameis is definitely that. Russell never was. No on field personality at all.

      OMFG! Stop calling this guy a leader. JUST. STOP. You can't be a team leader on the field and then a complete idiot off of it. If he were a leader, his off-field actions wouldn't be the distraction that they are. Maybe it's due to a lifetime in the military, but I just can't handle people calling him that. If you want to label him, label him as "frustrating", "talented", "immature". Because he is all of those things. He can do some amazing things on the field (this coming from a Gator fan) but his negative actions off the field are not indicative of true leadership. Again, you insult real leaders when you call Winston a leader. 

    • Anonymous

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      idk...  Russell was known for those late game comebacks that Just Winston is racking up.

      Russell and Winston's games and personality couldn't be more different. We need a leader in Tampa. Jameis is definitely that. Russell never was. No on field personality at all.

      OMFG! Stop calling this guy a leader. JUST. STOP. You can't be a team leader on the field and then a complete idiot off of it. If he were a leader, his off-field actions wouldn't be the distraction that they are. Maybe it's due to a lifetime in the military, but I just can't handle people calling him that. If you want to label him, label him as "frustrating", "talented", "immature". Because he is all of those things. He can do some amazing things on the field (this coming from a Gator fan) but his negative actions off the field are not indicative of true leadership. Again, you insult real leaders when you call Winston a leader.

      I agree with Hayseed.... for once.

    • Anonymous

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      There are only two things that I like about Winston over Mariota; first, I like the pocket presence and I think it will be easier for him to adjust to NFL offenses. Second, adversity. He has handled his share of it and the ability to handle it is a positive characteristic that NFL teams will look for in a QB. Unfortunately, a lot of the adversity he faced was do to his play or actions. So theres that, I guess.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      idk...  Russell was known for those late game comebacks that Just Winston is racking up.

      Russell and Winston's games and personality couldn't be more different. We need a leader in Tampa. Jameis is definitely that. Russell never was. No on field personality at all.

      OMFG! Stop calling this guy a leader. JUST. STOP. You can't be a team leader on the field and then a complete idiot off of it. If he were a leader, his off-field actions wouldn't be the distraction that they are. Maybe it's due to a lifetime in the military, but I just can't handle people calling him that. If you want to label him, label him as "frustrating", "talented", "immature". Because he is all of those things. He can do some amazing things on the field (this coming from a Gator fan) but his negative actions off the field are not indicative of true leadership. Again, you insult real leaders when you call Winston a leader.

      This entire paragraph is completely wrong.  You have never participated in team sports ever or you wouldn't make such an asinine statement.  He's as good a leader on the field as there is in the game.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2967

      idk...  Russell was known for those late game comebacks that Just Winston is racking up.

      Russell and Winston's games and personality couldn't be more different. We need a leader in Tampa. Jameis is definitely that. Russell never was. No on field personality at all.

      OMFG! Stop calling this guy a leader. JUST. STOP. You can't be a team leader on the field and then a complete idiot off of it. If he were a leader, his off-field actions wouldn't be the distraction that they are. Maybe it's due to a lifetime in the military, but I just can't handle people calling him that. If you want to label him, label him as "frustrating", "talented", "immature". Because he is all of those things. He can do some amazing things on the field (this coming from a Gator fan) but his negative actions off the field are not indicative of true leadership. Again, you insult real leaders when you call Winston a leader.

      This entire paragraph is completely wrong.  You have never participated in team sports ever or you wouldn't make such an asinine statement.  He's as good a leader on the field as there is in the game.

      Got it. You're a Nole homer and an idiot. Played sports all through highschool (4 year varsity TE) and have been in the military for 22 years. I may not know much but I know exactly what leadership is. Winston may have swagger but don't mistake that for leadership.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      idk...  Russell was known for those late game comebacks that Just Winston is racking up.

      Russell and Winston's games and personality couldn't be more different. We need a leader in Tampa. Jameis is definitely that. Russell never was. No on field personality at all.

      OMFG! Stop calling this guy a leader. JUST. STOP. You can't be a team leader on the field and then a complete idiot off of it. If he were a leader, his off-field actions wouldn't be the distraction that they are. Maybe it's due to a lifetime in the military, but I just can't handle people calling him that. If you want to label him, label him as "frustrating", "talented", "immature". Because he is all of those things. He can do some amazing things on the field (this coming from a Gator fan) but his negative actions off the field are not indicative of true leadership. Again, you insult real leaders when you call Winston a leader.

      This entire paragraph is completely wrong.  You have never participated in team sports ever or you wouldn't make such an asinine statement.  He's as good a leader on the field as there is in the game.

      Got it. You're a Nole homer and an idiot. Played sports all through highschool (4 year varsity TE) and have been in the military for 22 years. I may not know much but I know exactly what leadership is. Winston may have swagger but don't mistake that for leadership.

      First of all, thanks for your service.Second, sorry what I have seen from a team response standpoint to Jameis looks like leadership to me. Third, thanks for the idiot comment. Appreciated.

    • Anonymous

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      Being a leader isn’t determined by anyone but him and the guys he plays with.

    • Anonymous

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      A leader doesn’t consistently place his team in bad positions. He’s got numerous off-field issues and costly turnovers that points to him being the one that usually gets the team into those binds. A true leader would accept responsibility and do what he needs to do to correct his mistakes. Jameis hasn’t done that. 

    • Anonymous

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      No arrests and no loses. Draft him.

    • Anonymous

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      Being a leader isn't determined by anyone but him and the guys he plays with.

      Guess that ends that conversation then.  ::)Also, that is not true. An assessment of your leadership ability is also determined by those you work for or will potentially work for. The latter of which will have to go off of what they see from outside of the huddle. This is where our debate begins.

    • Anonymous

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      Being a leader isn't determined by anyone but him and the guys he plays with.

      Guess that ends that conversation then.  ::)

      There's no conversation. It's just you trying to apply your own spin onto something where it has no relevance. No one cares how you do it in the military. All that matters are the guys he plays with. That seems to be working out just fine.

    • Anonymous

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      A leader doesn't consistently place his team in bad positions. He's got numerous off-field issues and costly turnovers that points to him being the one that usually gets the team into those binds. A true leader would accept responsibility and do what he needs to do to correct his mistakes. Jameis hasn't done that.

      Not true on him being the one that gets his team in binds, Jimbo has stated that 70% of his INTs have come from the two freshman WRs adjusting. The  lack of running game first half of the season contributed to a lot of forced throws also. You have it backwards. He Always comes through. Mariota's one chance to have a late game comeback he throws an INT to seal the loss.

    • Anonymous

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      go peel some potatoes private.  You claim your 22 years in the military has made you an expert on leadership but nobody here likes or respects your opinion much.  Mainly for two reasons.  1.  You are an arsehole.  2.  You are an idiot.  There aint no one here that would follow you. 

    • billym

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      go peel some potatoes private.  You claim your 22 years in the military has made you an expert on leadership but nobody here likes or respects your opinion much.  Mainly for two reasons.  1.  You are an arsehole.  2.  You are an idiot.  There aint no one here that would follow you.

      I was a career military guy also, retired now. But I have to say, military leadership, and NFL leadership are 2 entirely different things.  The military you are required to follow. The NFL, you don't like a guys leadership, you can say F-you. And it happens quite often.

    • Anonymous

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      go peel some potatoes private.  You claim your 22 years in the military has made you an expert on leadership but nobody here likes or respects your opinion much.  Mainly for two reasons.  1.  You are an arsehole.  2.  You are an idiot.  There aint no one here that would follow you.

      I was a career military guy also, retired now. But I have to say, military leadership, and NFL leadership are 2 entirely different things.  The military you are required to follow. The NFL, you don't like a guys leadership, you can say F-you. And it happens quite often.

      true.  Which is basically what This civilian just said to Gomer Pyle here. 

    • Anonymous

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      being the leader of 18,19, and 20 year old kids is quite different than leading 30 year old men.also, S+B, you come off like a little frustrated fat nerd on these message boards.  I doubt anybody would even want to be near you, let alone "follow you"

    • Anonymous

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      “Leadership” sure was a great asset this season… /blue

    • Marcia

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      "Leadership" sure was a great asset this season... /blue

      McCown brought buckets of it with him from Chicago and Tampa reaped the rewards.Has any one QB hosed a coach in two different places as bad as McCown has screwed Lovie?  We need to come up with a list of QBs that stole so boldly from the same coach at two different locations.  Could be a great one.

    • Anonymous

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      being the leader of 18,19, and 20 year old kids is quite different than leading 30 year old men.also, S+B, you come off like a little frustrated fat nerd on these message boards.  I doubt anybody would even want to be near you, let alone "follow you"

      im not fat.  And if calling that tool out makes me a bad guy in your eyes then so be it but he’s the one that acts like a condescending arse to everyone on this board.  I’m not the one that had a meltdown over most of the board complaining about losing early in the season and needed to take a 2 month break.

    • Anonymous

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      Sorry, but Winston won’t walk into our locker room and get respect. He will need to earn it. And I’m sorry, but I have a hard time praising the guy’s “leadership” qualities. What if FSU lost to Clemson? Their star QB was on the sidelines, suspended, for having a big pile of shlt between his ears. His immaturity and selfishness nearly cost him, his teammates, his fans, and his school a chance at a 2nd NC appearance. If we draft him (which I’m all for), he needs a handler.

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Sorry, but Winston won't walk into our locker room and get respect. He will need to earn it. And I'm sorry, but I have a hard time praising the guy's "leadership" qualities. What if FSU lost to Clemson? Their star QB was on the sidelines, suspended, for having a big pile of shlt between his ears. His immaturity and selfishness nearly cost him, his teammates, his fans, and his school a chance at a 2nd NC appearance. If we draft him (which I'm all for), he needs a handler.

      He is not exactly Pac Man, just sayin.

    • Anonymous

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      I’ve always seen Winston’s leadership praised. I do agree that a good leader doesn’t put himself in dumb situations and cause the team unnecessary distractions, but just like all skills, you can get improve. Keep the parts people admire, the on-field and practice leadership and eliminate the off the field nonsense. If you’re not confident he can do that off the field, there’s no reason to draft him.Lastly, 22 years in the military doesn't qualify anyone as an expert in "leadership," quite the opposite.

    • Anonymous

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      Sorry, but Winston won't walk into our locker room and get respect. He will need to earn it. And I'm sorry, but I have a hard time praising the guy's "leadership" qualities. What if FSU lost to Clemson? Their star QB was on the sidelines, suspended, for having a big pile of shlt between his ears. His immaturity and selfishness nearly cost him, his teammates, his fans, and his school a chance at a 2nd NC appearance. If we draft him (which I'm all for), he needs a handler.

      He is not exactly Pac Man, just sayin.

      So far he's not. But, his track record isn't trending in the right direction.

    • Anonymous

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      Mariota or Winston An arguement can be made with each adapting to the pro level. Which would you rather have as the new face for Tampa?Mariota

    • Marcia

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      Mariota or Winston An arguement can be made with each adapting to the pro level. Which would you rather have as the new face for Tampa?Mariota

      Winston.  Mariota is Freeman, Jack Thompson and Vinny Testaverde mixed into one. 

    • Anonymous

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      The “Leader” sure looks like he’s “following” the footsteps of Lawrence Phillips.  Not a good atmosphere in the NFL for that right now…

    • Marcia

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      Yep, the anger, hatred and violence associated with all of the arrests Winston has been involved with, are quite similar to Lawrence Phillips……

    • Anonymous

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      Mariota or Winston An arguement can be made with each adapting to the pro level. Which would you rather have as the new face for Tampa?Mariota

      Winston.  Mariota is Freeman, Jack Thompson and Vinny Testaverde mixed into one.

      Winston is Freeman, Russell, and Leaf mixed into one. Other's can play this game too.

    • Anonymous

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      Their star QB was on the sidelines, suspended, for having a big pile of shlt between his ears. His immaturity and selfishness nearly cost him, his teammates, his fans, and his school a chance at a 2nd NC appearance. If we draft him (which I'm all for), he needs a handler.

      Compared to the dangers of driving 80 mph, 25 mph over the speed limit a potentially lethal speed, yelling a profanity is pretty tame.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9128

      Their star QB was on the sidelines, suspended, for having a big pile of shlt between his ears. His immaturity and selfishness nearly cost him, his teammates, his fans, and his school a chance at a 2nd NC appearance. If we draft him (which I'm all for), he needs a handler.

      Compared to the dangers of driving 80 mph, 25 mph over the speed limit a potentially lethal speed, yelling a profanity is pretty tame.

      Yep. Poor little angel.

    • Anonymous

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      The "Leader" sure looks like he's "following" the footsteps of Lawrence Phillips.

      Your bias is starting to betray your intelligence.

    • Anonymous

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      Their star QB was on the sidelines, suspended, for having a big pile of shlt between his ears. His immaturity and selfishness nearly cost him, his teammates, his fans, and his school a chance at a 2nd NC appearance. If we draft him (which I'm all for), he needs a handler.

      Compared to the dangers of driving 80 mph, 25 mph over the speed limit a potentially lethal speed, yelling a profanity is pretty tame.

      Yep. Poor little angel.

      Angel? What the hell you talking about? Yelling a profanity might be inappropriate but 80mph in a 55 is breaking the law, risking the lives of others. I guess were not supposed to talk about our golden boy's transgressions.

    • Anonymous

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      All this talk of leadership is making me think Winston should join the Army. And Mariota can stay in school another year, and take Nipple Piercing 101, and Bowling...work on his game another year. Draft either/or. They are both great candidates. Unfortunately, a lot of you tossers will freak out if we get one or the other, which means you think one is cuter than the other. All I want is for the Bucs to address a severe need. Bucs have never had a franchise stud QB. It's time. One or the other...let it rip.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9128

      Their star QB was on the sidelines, suspended, for having a big pile of shlt between his ears. His immaturity and selfishness nearly cost him, his teammates, his fans, and his school a chance at a 2nd NC appearance. If we draft him (which I'm all for), he needs a handler.

      Compared to the dangers of driving 80 mph, 25 mph over the speed limit a potentially lethal speed, yelling a profanity is pretty tame.

      Yep. Poor little angel.

      Angel? What the hell you talking about? Yelling a profanity might be inappropriate but 80mph in a 55 is breaking the law, risking the lives of others. I guess were not supposed to talk about our golden boy's transgressions.

      What the hell are you talking about? Who is this golden boy you're referring to?

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2862

      Their star QB was on the sidelines, suspended, for having a big pile of shlt between his ears. His immaturity and selfishness nearly cost him, his teammates, his fans, and his school a chance at a 2nd NC appearance. If we draft him (which I'm all for), he needs a handler.

      Compared to the dangers of driving 80 mph, 25 mph over the speed limit a potentially lethal speed, yelling a profanity is pretty tame.

      Yep. Poor little angel.

      Angel? What the hell you talking about? Yelling a profanity might be inappropriate but 80mph in a 55 is breaking the law, risking the lives of others. I guess were not supposed to talk about our golden boy's transgressions.

      What the hell are you talking about? Who is this golden boy you're referring to?

      http://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/index.ssf/2014/11/oregon_ducks_quarterback_marcu_20.html

    • Anonymous

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    • Marcia

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      Post count: 5337

      Their star QB was on the sidelines, suspended, for having a big pile of shlt between his ears. His immaturity and selfishness nearly cost him, his teammates, his fans, and his school a chance at a 2nd NC appearance. If we draft him (which I'm all for), he needs a handler.

      Compared to the dangers of driving 80 mph, 25 mph over the speed limit a potentially lethal speed, yelling a profanity is pretty tame.

      Yep. Poor little angel.

      Angel? What the hell you talking about? Yelling a profanity might be inappropriate but 80mph in a 55 is breaking the law, risking the lives of others. I guess were not supposed to talk about our golden boy's transgressions.

      What the hell are you talking about? Who is this golden boy you're referring to?

      The point here is that most young people make bad decisions at one point or another.  Winston's have been magnified because of how much FSU is hated and by him winning the heisman trophy and the MNC last season.  Mariota is too meek to grab the attention of the mainstream media, in fact, he's borderline boring.  If he was vocal and attracted attention we may have a better idea of who he is from leadership standpoint but now we just have speculation.   

    • Anonymous

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      Mariota is too meek to grab the attention of the mainstream media, in fact, he's borderline boring. 

      So, because he keeps his nose clean off the field, he's boring to you. I guess his personality isn't "skrong" enough for you. Shocker.

    • Anonymous

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      Screen-Shot-2014-11-19-at-8.01.31-PM.pngNo bias there.

    • Anonymous

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      Screen-Shot-2014-11-19-at-8.01.31-PM.pngNo bias there.

      Won't load for me. No idea what it is.

    • Anonymous

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      Now I see it. Like I said. Mariota’s character and off the field decisions should be red flags now. He’s right there with Winston.

    • Anonymous

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      Now I see it. Like I said. Mariota's character and off the field decisions should be red flags now. He's right there with Winston.

      Actually I think this gives Mariota a longer police record than Winston.

    • Anonymous

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      Now I see it. Like I said. Mariota's character and off the field decisions should be red flags now. He's right there with Winston.

      Actually I think this gives Mariota a longer police record than Winston.

      Totally. I mean, this kid is definitely a risk off the field. My God, the character flaws are abundant and obvious. Or maybe the police do their job in Oregon. But, I'm sure it's the prior.

    • Anonymous

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      Now I see it. Like I said. Mariota's character and off the field decisions should be red flags now. He's right there with Winston.

      Actually I think this gives Mariota a longer police record than Winston.

      Totally. I mean, this kid is definitely a risk off the field. My God, the character flaws are abundant and obvious. Or maybe the police do their job in Oregon. But, I'm sure it's the prior.

      "The point here is that most young people make bad decisions at one point or another.  Winston's have been magnified because of how much FSU is hated and by him winning the heisman trophy and the MNC last season. "

    • Anonymous

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      80 in a 55 doesn’t even count as bad judgement. That’s a normal Highway speed. It’s the people going 55 in the fast lane that you gotta look out for.

    • Anonymous

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      yeah.  up here average speed on the highway is close to 80.  and I almost never see people pulled over for it.  only people doing 55 are when my parents, who are 78, come up to visit and are suppose to be following us in their car.

    • Anonymous

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      Watching Mark “Butt Fumble” Sanchez shred the Redskins right now with this Chip Kelly offense…. Remind me again how Mariota has to learn how to run a “pro style offense”.  Lol.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 801

      "Leadership" sure was a great asset this season... /blue

      It sure got us a lot of us wins with McCown this season...lol Give me a guy with who limits turnovers, can make plays with his legs when the pocket collapses and maybe we wouldn't be sitting at 2-12 right now. And for all of you who want a fiery leader, last time I checked Ryan, Flacco, Manning, Rodgers are pretty quiet leaders and they have 4 SB wins between them. Don't confuse all that noise with respect and authority.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 273

      "Leadership" sure was a great asset this season... /blue

      It sure got us a lot of us wins with McCown this season...lol Give me a guy with who limits turnovers, can make plays with his legs when the pocket collapses and maybe we wouldn't be sitting at 2-12 right now. And for all of you who want a fiery leader, last time I checked Ryan, Flacco, Manning, Rodgers are pretty quiet leaders and they have 4 SB wins between them. Don't confuse all that noise with respect and authority.

      Bingo, we have a winner right here. What most don't understand is that leadership requires the respect of your teammates. I get the feeling that Mariota will have a much easier time gaining the respect of his teammates in the NFL, most of which are not going to be 18-22 year old college kids, than shit-for-brains Winston will.  Don't get me wrong, I think Winston has all the talent you can want in a QB, but drafting him #1 overall is simply not worth the risk if I'm an NFL GM, simply because he hasn't shown the ability to refrain from doing dumb shit for any elongated period of time.

    • Marcia

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      Post count: 5337

      "Leadership" sure was a great asset this season... /blue

      It sure got us a lot of us wins with McCown this season...lol Give me a guy with who limits turnovers, can make plays with his legs when the pocket collapses and maybe we wouldn't be sitting at 2-12 right now. And for all of you who want a fiery leader, last time I checked Ryan, Flacco, Manning, Rodgers are pretty quiet leaders and they have 4 SB wins between them. Don't confuse all that noise with respect and authority.

      Bingo, we have a winner right here. What most don't understand is that leadership requires the respect of your teammates. I get the feeling that Mariota will have a much easier time gaining the respect of his teammates in the NFL, most of which are not going to be 18-22 year old college kids, than (censored)-for-brains Winston will.  Don't get me wrong, I think Winston has all the talent you can want in a QB, but drafting him #1 overall is simply not worth the risk if I'm an NFL GM, simply because he hasn't shown the ability to refrain from doing dumb (censored) for any elongated period of time.

      What I heard analysts say a few times this week.  You are taking a much bigger risk with Mariota and what you dont know about him than you are taking with Winston and what you do.  Winston is so much less a risk than Mariota that anyone with any knowledge of the game would not be able to tell you otherwise with a straight face.  It's fun for discussion now but it's a slam dunk in Winston's favor five months from now.

    • Anonymous

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      My gad that was dome dumb shit. Do you type this stuff with a straight face? Or are you laughing the whole time?

    • Marcia

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      My gad that was dome dumb (censored). Do you type this stuff with a straight face? Or are you laughing the whole time?

      There is no scenario where Mariota does better in the NFL than Winston.  Your football knowledge is shallow if you are talking yourself into thinking otherwise.  You probably have Mariota shucking and jiving in the pocket, making all kinds of quick moves, reestablishing himself in the pocket than chucking it down the field to an open receiver.  Or better yet, tucking and running for six. Hike the ball, hand it off or throw it to an open receiver after making your reads.  That's how the game was 20 years ago, how it is now and how it will be with very few exceptions.

    • Anonymous

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      I know when I’m looking for quality analysis on the QB position, Mike Glennon’s Fluffer is the guy that comes to mind.

    • Anonymous

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      I actually think Winston has all of the physical tools, but I would be very concerned to hitch my wagon to that dude as the face of my franchise.  In addition to what’s going on between winston’s ears, the int’s are also very concerning.  The guy would have been the number one pick had he been able to come out last year but he has not been nearly as impressive this season, certainly not off the field.  All that said, Mariota has had a horrible o-line all year and has still made all the plays asked of him, accounting for 50+ td's and only 2 int's, the dude is just a better prospect... not necessarily a knock on winston but mariota has just been better, it will be very fun to watch the two go head to head but I think the ducks come out on top, and only because mariota is their qb, FSU has way more talent around winston than oregon has around mariota

    • billym

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      Post count: 3348

      My gad that was dome dumb (censored). Do you type this stuff with a straight face? Or are you laughing the whole time?

      There is no scenario where Mariota does better in the NFL than Winston. 

      But, is it "well documented" ?

    • Marcia

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      Post count: 5337

      My gad that was dome dumb (censored). Do you type this stuff with a straight face? Or are you laughing the whole time?

      There is no scenario where Mariota does better in the NFL than Winston. 

      But, is it "well documented" ?

      You'd have to be a real idiot to think otherwise.  if Mariota played for Northwestern, we would never even know his name.  You are buying into nonsense, hook line and sinker probably just like you did McCown.  Dumb fan base gets what it deserves 10 times out of 10.

    • billym

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      Post count: 3348

      My gad that was dome dumb (censored). Do you type this stuff with a straight face? Or are you laughing the whole time?

      There is no scenario where Mariota does better in the NFL than Winston. 

      But, is it "well documented" ?

      You'd have to be a real idiot to think otherwise.  if Mariota played for Northwestern, we would never even know his name.  You are buying into nonsense, hook line and sinker probably just like you did McCown.  Dumb fan base gets what it deserves 10 times out of 10.

      Whoa.  I was never a McCown fan. Or a JFF fan. Or a Glennon fan. I will admit I was a big Freeman fan.As far as Mariota/Winston, I am still 50/50 on them.

    • Anonymous

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      My gad that was dome dumb (censored). Do you type this stuff with a straight face? Or are you laughing the whole time?

      There is no scenario where Mariota does better in the NFL than Winston. 

      But, is it "well documented" ?

      You'd have to be a real idiot to think otherwise.  if Mariota played for Northwestern, we would never even know his name.  You are buying into nonsense, hook line and sinker probably just like you did McCown.  Dumb fan base gets what it deserves 10 times out of 10.

      Whoa.  I was never a McCown fan. Or a JFF fan. Or a Glennon fan. I will admit I was a big Freeman fan.As far as Mariota/Winston, I am still 50/50 on them.

      Right now I'm still about 65% in favor of Mariota, but I could see it changing.From a talent/skillset standpoint, I feel like Winston is better. I just feel like he's going to fuck up because he doesn't understand the mental commitment required.I feel like, if given the chance, Mariota would outwork Winston.

    • billym

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      As far as Mariota/Winston, I am still 50/50 on them.

      Right now I'm still about 65% in favor of Mariota, but I could see it changing.From a talent/skillset standpoint, I feel like Winston is better. I just feel like he's going to (censored) up because he doesn't understand the mental commitment required.I feel like, if given the chance, Mariota would outwork Winston.

      That is about where I am at now. But I am looking forward to the New Years day game. I believe that will swing a lot of fans opinions either way.

    • Anonymous

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      As far as Mariota/Winston, I am still 50/50 on them.

      Right now I'm still about 65% in favor of Mariota, but I could see it changing.From a talent/skillset standpoint, I feel like Winston is better. I just feel like he's going to (censored) up because he doesn't understand the mental commitment required.I feel like, if given the chance, Mariota would outwork Winston.

      That is about where I am at now. But I am looking forward to the New Years day game. I believe that will swing a lot of fans opinions either way.

      I definitely  think the game between the two teams will go a long way towards deciding who the bucs will (or at least who the fans want to) draft...  I'd say I'm about 90-10 in favor or Mariota, I really like Winston's skill set and he's proven to be clutch, but I think Mariota has simply been better and isn't a knucklehead

    • billym

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      Post count: 3348

      As far as Mariota/Winston, I am still 50/50 on them.

      Right now I'm still about 65% in favor of Mariota, but I could see it changing.From a talent/skillset standpoint, I feel like Winston is better. I just feel like he's going to (censored) up because he doesn't understand the mental commitment required.I feel like, if given the chance, Mariota would outwork Winston.

      That is about where I am at now. But I am looking forward to the New Years day game. I believe that will swing a lot of fans opinions either way.

      I definitely  think the game between the two teams will go a long way towards deciding who the bucs will (or at least who the fans want to) draft...  I'd say I'm about 90-10 in favor or Mariota, I really like Winston's skill set and he's proven to be clutch, but I think Mariota has simply been better and isn't a knucklehead

      Not sure knuckleheads get accepted to Stanford.

    • Anonymous

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      As far as Mariota/Winston, I am still 50/50 on them.

      Right now I'm still about 65% in favor of Mariota, but I could see it changing.From a talent/skillset standpoint, I feel like Winston is better. I just feel like he's going to (censored) up because he doesn't understand the mental commitment required.I feel like, if given the chance, Mariota would outwork Winston.

      That is about where I am at now. But I am looking forward to the New Years day game. I believe that will swing a lot of fans opinions either way.

      I definitely  think the game between the two teams will go a long way towards deciding who the bucs will (or at least who the fans want to) draft...  I'd say I'm about 90-10 in favor or Mariota, I really like Winston's skill set and he's proven to be clutch, but I think Mariota has simply been better and isn't a knucklehead

      Not sure knuckleheads get accepted to Stanford.

      Who's to say people that get into Stanford can't do dumb s**t?  Jameis is living proof of that

    • Anonymous

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      My gad that was dome dumb (censored). Do you type this stuff with a straight face? Or are you laughing the whole time?

      There is no scenario where Mariota does better in the NFL than Winston. 

      But, is it "well documented" ?

      You'd have to be a real idiot to think otherwise.  if Mariota played for Northwestern, we would never even know his name.  You are buying into nonsense, hook line and sinker probably just like you did McCown.  Dumb fan base gets what it deserves 10 times out of 10.

      Whoa.  I was never a McCown fan. Or a JFF fan. Or a Glennon fan. I will admit I was a big Freeman fan.As far as Mariota/Winston, I am still 50/50 on them.

      Right now I'm still about 65% in favor of Mariota, but I could see it changing.From a talent/skillset standpoint, I feel like Winston is better. I just feel like he's going to (censored) up because he doesn't understand the mental commitment required.I feel like, if given the chance, Mariota would outwork Winston.

      Mariota's talent level is through the roof . 6'3 220 , strong arm , runs a 4.4 Not sure why people say this.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      As far as Mariota/Winston, I am still 50/50 on them.

      Right now I'm still about 65% in favor of Mariota, but I could see it changing.From a talent/skillset standpoint, I feel like Winston is better. I just feel like he's going to (censored) up because he doesn't understand the mental commitment required.I feel like, if given the chance, Mariota would outwork Winston.

      That is about where I am at now. But I am looking forward to the New Years day game. I believe that will swing a lot of fans opinions either way.

      I definitely  think the game between the two teams will go a long way towards deciding who the bucs will (or at least who the fans want to) draft...  I'd say I'm about 90-10 in favor or Mariota, I really like Winston's skill set and he's proven to be clutch, but I think Mariota has simply been better and isn't a knucklehead

      Not sure knuckleheads get accepted to Stanford.

      Who's to say people that get into Stanford can't do dumb s**t?  Jameis is living proof of that

      So is Tiger Woods.

    • billym

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      Post count: 3348

      As far as Mariota/Winston, I am still 50/50 on them.

      Right now I'm still about 65% in favor of Mariota, but I could see it changing.From a talent/skillset standpoint, I feel like Winston is better. I just feel like he's going to (censored) up because he doesn't understand the mental commitment required.I feel like, if given the chance, Mariota would outwork Winston.

      That is about where I am at now. But I am looking forward to the New Years day game. I believe that will swing a lot of fans opinions either way.

      I definitely  think the game between the two teams will go a long way towards deciding who the bucs will (or at least who the fans want to) draft...  I'd say I'm about 90-10 in favor or Mariota, I really like Winston's skill set and he's proven to be clutch, but I think Mariota has simply been better and isn't a knucklehead

      Not sure knuckleheads get accepted to Stanford.

      Who's to say people that get into Stanford can't do dumb s**t?  Jameis is living proof of that

      Fair point, but some here refer to him as a "moron". He may be a lot of things, but being a moron is not one of them.If you want to say, he makes bad decisions, or is immature, fine.

    • Anonymous

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      As far as Mariota/Winston, I am still 50/50 on them.

      Right now I'm still about 65% in favor of Mariota, but I could see it changing.From a talent/skillset standpoint, I feel like Winston is better. I just feel like he's going to (censored) up because he doesn't understand the mental commitment required.I feel like, if given the chance, Mariota would outwork Winston.

      That is about where I am at now. But I am looking forward to the New Years day game. I believe that will swing a lot of fans opinions either way.

      I definitely  think the game between the two teams will go a long way towards deciding who the bucs will (or at least who the fans want to) draft...  I'd say I'm about 90-10 in favor or Mariota, I really like Winston's skill set and he's proven to be clutch, but I think Mariota has simply been better and isn't a knucklehead

      Not sure knuckleheads get accepted to Stanford.

      Who's to say people that get into Stanford can't do dumb s**t?  Jameis is living proof of that

      Fair point, but some here refer to him as a "moron". He may be a lot of things, but being a moron is not one of them.If you want to say, he makes bad decisions, or is immature, fine.

      I don't know the guy so I don't actually know if he is a moron as far as his intelligence goes, my guess would be he is not because it is my understanding that he had a 4.0 in high school and still does well in college, so it's likely he's not a "moron" when it comes to book smarts.  That said, the guy definitely seems to be lacking some common sense, is incredibly immature and makes horrible decisions.  I know people say "oh he's a college kid" but there's a pattern of very poor behavior that many college kids do not exhibit, especially those in his position, and it is definitely cause for concern, especially if i'm about to hand the guy $25M over the next few years.  Like i said before, I like his skill set, I just think Mariota is better and we don't have to worry about all the baggage so for me, it's a no brainer, I'll take the Duck all day long

    • billym

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      Post count: 3348

      Fair point, but some here refer to him as a "moron". He may be a lot of things, but being a moron is not one of them.If you want to say, he makes bad decisions, or is immature, fine.

      I don't know the guy so I don't actually know if he is a moron as far as his intelligence goes, my guess would be he is not because it is my understanding that he had a 4.0 in high school and still does well in college, so it's likely he's not a "moron" when it comes to book smarts.  That said, the guy definitely seems to be lacking some common sense, is incredibly immature and makes horrible decisions.  I know people say "oh he's a college kid" but there's a pattern of very poor behavior that many college kids do not exhibit, especially those in his position, and it is definitely cause for concern, especially if i'm about to hand the guy $25M over the next few years.  Like i said before, I like his skill set, I just think Mariota is better and we don't have to worry about all the baggage so for me, it's a no brainer, I'll take the Duck all day long

      All good points. The bottom line?  I guess people have different meanings for the word "moron"

    • Anonymous

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      As far as Mariota/Winston, I am still 50/50 on them.

      Right now I'm still about 65% in favor of Mariota, but I could see it changing.From a talent/skillset standpoint, I feel like Winston is better. I just feel like he's going to (censored) up because he doesn't understand the mental commitment required.I feel like, if given the chance, Mariota would outwork Winston.

      That is about where I am at now. But I am looking forward to the New Years day game. I believe that will swing a lot of fans opinions either way.

      I definitely  think the game between the two teams will go a long way towards deciding who the bucs will (or at least who the fans want to) draft...  I'd say I'm about 90-10 in favor or Mariota, I really like Winston's skill set and he's proven to be clutch, but I think Mariota has simply been better and isn't a knucklehead

      Not sure knuckleheads get accepted to Stanford.

      And Stanford would have kicked his ass out in a heartbeat. Believe that.

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      As far as Mariota/Winston, I am still 50/50 on them.

      Right now I'm still about 65% in favor of Mariota, but I could see it changing.From a talent/skillset standpoint, I feel like Winston is better. I just feel like he's going to (censored) up because he doesn't understand the mental commitment required.I feel like, if given the chance, Mariota would outwork Winston.

      That is about where I am at now. But I am looking forward to the New Years day game. I believe that will swing a lot of fans opinions either way.

      I definitely  think the game between the two teams will go a long way towards deciding who the bucs will (or at least who the fans want to) draft...  I'd say I'm about 90-10 in favor or Mariota, I really like Winston's skill set and he's proven to be clutch, but I think Mariota has simply been better and isn't a knucklehead

      Not sure knuckleheads get accepted to Stanford.

      And Stanford would have kicked his ass out in a heartbeat. Believe that.

      Is that "well documented" ?    j/k

    • Anonymous

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      I seriously doubt that Winston isn’t smart, but smart people can do some dumb ass stuff and he has. He hasn’t done anything serious enough to make me not draft him, though. But if it’s close, I would certainly give Mariota the edge due to the difference in maturity.

    • Marcia

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      I seriously doubt that Winston isn't smart, but smart people can do some dumb ass stuff and he has. He hasn't done anything serious enough to make me not draft him, though. But if it's close, I would certainly give Mariota the edge due to the difference in maturity.

      Maturity and good character are traits that absolutely no tangible value on the playing field.  Chris Rock (I know I know), said the other day that people are treating Mariota like him being a good guy is something that translates to wins.  My thoughts on Mariota is that he could be great someday but certainly not right away and putting him in based on fan pressure or ticket sales could go on to ruin his career.  If we draft him with a Cutler/Cassel/.........gulp McCown type plan for a a couple of years I may be on board but throwing someone with his skill into the mud is a really short sighted plans.  I am not interested in selling jerseys I am interested in winning for the next 15 years.  Oregon marketing has served it's purpose for the university. Like I stated earlier, if Mariota went to Northwestern, we wouldn't even know his name.

    • Anonymous

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      Like I stated earlier, if Mariota went to Northwestern, we wouldn't even know his name.

      Right. And if Winston was wearing orange and blue throughout his collegiate career, you wouldn't be gushing over him.

    • Anonymous

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      Like I stated earlier, if Mariota went to Northwestern, we wouldn't even know his name.

      Right. And if Winston was wearing orange and blue throughout his collegiate career, you wouldn't be gushing over him.

      There still a decent opportunity of him wearing orange.

    • Anonymous

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      Just re-watched two games from this year of Mariota in action. Trying to figure out what all the fuss is about. I still don’t see it. Good college QB w/ awesome talent but very little to suggest he can do what he’s going to be asked to do at the next level.

    • Anonymous

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      Sapp just said on the pregame show that the he doesn’t want the Bucs to have the 1st overall because he doesn’t want them to take Mariota.

    • Anonymous

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      Sapp did say that. But IIRC he made a similar comment towards Winston because of all the off-field stuff. Not sure Sapp feels the Bucs should be drafting a QB at all. Coming from a defensive lineman though, can't say I'm surprised.

    • Marcia

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      Post count: 5337

      Like I stated earlier, if Mariota went to Northwestern, we wouldn't even know his name.

      Right. And if Winston was wearing orange and blue throughout his collegiate career, you wouldn't be gushing over him.

      Wrong.  I want Vernon Hargreaves in Tampa and he plays for the enemy.  I am able to get past my disdain for the enemy and realize who is good and who isn't.  I want what's best for my pro franchise regardless of their college affiliation.When you see the Winston film broken down you see a rare understanding of how to play the position and you see  an on the field leader that can't be denied. 

    • Anonymous

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      When you see the Winston film broken down you see a rare understanding of how to play the position and you see  an on the field leader that can't be denied.

      Yeah, but does he throw the best ball in the NFL? Or is that still Glennon?

    • Marcia

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      When you see the Winston film broken down you see a rare understanding of how to play the position and you see  an on the field leader that can't be denied.

      Yeah, but does he throw the best ball in the NFL? Or is that still Glennon?

      So you still think Glennon throws a shitty ball? 

    • Anonymous

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      When you see the Winston film broken down you see a rare understanding of how to play the position and you see  an on the field leader that can't be denied.

      Yeah, but does he throw the best ball in the NFL? Or is that still Glennon?

      So you still think Glennon throws a (censored)ty ball?

      Stop trying to spin it Strawman.  I never said he did. But, I also don't make up ridiculous claims and then try to pass them off as facts to further push my agenda. You said Glennon throws "simply the best ball in the entire NFL". I mean...it's well documented that you did.

    • Marcia

      Participant
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      When you see the Winston film broken down you see a rare understanding of how to play the position and you see  an on the field leader that can't be denied.

      Yeah, but does he throw the best ball in the NFL? Or is that still Glennon?

      So you still think Glennon throws a (censored)ty ball?

      Stop trying to spin it Strawman.  I never said he did. But, I also don't make up ridiculous claims and then try to pass them off as facts to further push my agenda. You said Glennon throws "simply the best ball in the entire NFL". I mean...it's well documented that you did.

      What a huge girl. 

    • Anonymous

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      Rod how about you go in that Chip Kelly on Mariota thread and eat your crow?Man up ladybug.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9128

      When you see the Winston film broken down you see a rare understanding of how to play the position and you see  an on the field leader that can't be denied.

      Yeah, but does he throw the best ball in the NFL? Or is that still Glennon?

      So you still think Glennon throws a (censored)ty ball?

      Stop trying to spin it Strawman.  I never said he did. But, I also don't make up ridiculous claims and then try to pass them off as facts to further push my agenda. You said Glennon throws "simply the best ball in the entire NFL". I mean...it's well documented that you did.

      What a huge girl.

      Oh...you get called out yet again and nothing to say. It's cool. Still my bltch.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      When you see the Winston film broken down you see a rare understanding of how to play the position and you see  an on the field leader that can't be denied.

      Yeah, but does he throw the best ball in the NFL? Or is that still Glennon?

      So you still think Glennon throws a (censored)ty ball?

      Stop trying to spin it Strawman.  I never said he did. But, I also don't make up ridiculous claims and then try to pass them off as facts to further push my agenda. You said Glennon throws "simply the best ball in the entire NFL". I mean...it's well documented that you did.

      What a huge girl.

      Oh...you get called out yet again and nothing to say. It's cool. Still my bltch.

      Rent free my man.

    • Anonymous

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      Rod how about you go in that Chip Kelly on Mariota thread and eat your crow?Man up ladybug.

      Fat chance.

    • Anonymous

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      My gad that was dome dumb (censored). Do you type this stuff with a straight face? Or are you laughing the whole time?

      There is no scenario where Mariota does better in the NFL than Winston.  Your football knowledge is shallow if you are talking yourself into thinking otherwise.  You probably have Mariota shucking and jiving in the pocket, making all kinds of quick moves, reestablishing himself in the pocket than chucking it down the field to an open receiver.  Or better yet, tucking and running for six. Hike the ball, hand it off or throw it to an open receiver after making your reads.  That's how the game was 20 years ago, how it is now and how it will be with very few exceptions.

      So don't try to be innovative like Chip Kelly. We should try to emulate the same tired old offense that teams have ran for 30 years? You must be a huge Lovie Smith fan!I don't picture Mariota shucking and jiving. I picture him going through his reads from the pocket and making lighting fast CORRECT decisions. I expect him to protect the ball and limit turnovers. I expect him to make things happen on his own with his legs when necessary. I expect it because that is what he does in college. You would know this if you ever actually watched him play. I also expect him to be an outstanding Tampa citizen and a great role model. Something most people would like to see in their franchise quarterback. I guess ya'll just do things differently up there in bass akwards Tallahassee.

    • Anonymous

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      No matter how many times you say he goes through his reads in college, it’s not true. It’s not a criticism to say that he doesn’t have to do it, it’s just reality. Doesn’t mean he can’t learn to do it, though.

    • Anonymous

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      No matter how many times you say he goes through his reads in college, it's not true. It's not a criticism to say that he doesn't have to do it, it's just reality. Doesn't mean he can't learn to do it, though.

      I disagree 1000%. Some plays in that offense are one read and either throw or run....the vast majority of the time you can clearly see him go through his reads and hit his 2nd or 3rd target.

    • Anonymous

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      Not only does he go through his progressions quickly and effectively, but he does a good job of looking off safeties….which is huge for a college QB.http://draftbreakdown.com/video/marcus-mariota-vs-cal-2014/

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      My gad that was dome dumb (censored). Do you type this stuff with a straight face? Or are you laughing the whole time?

      There is no scenario where Mariota does better in the NFL than Winston.  Your football knowledge is shallow if you are talking yourself into thinking otherwise.  You probably have Mariota shucking and jiving in the pocket, making all kinds of quick moves, reestablishing himself in the pocket than chucking it down the field to an open receiver.  Or better yet, tucking and running for six. Hike the ball, hand it off or throw it to an open receiver after making your reads.  That's how the game was 20 years ago, how it is now and how it will be with very few exceptions.

      So don't try to be innovative like Chip Kelly. We should try to emulate the same tired old offense that teams have ran for 30 years? You must be a huge Lovie Smith fan!I don't picture Mariota shucking and jiving. I picture him going through his reads from the pocket and making lighting fast CORRECT decisions. I expect him to protect the ball and limit turnovers. I expect him to make things happen on his own with his legs when necessary. I expect it because that is what he does in college. You would know this if you ever actually watched him play. I also expect him to be an outstanding Tampa citizen and a great role model. Something most people would like to see in their franchise quarterback. I guess ya'll just do things differently up there in bass akwards Tallahassee.

      Again, an uneducated dig at Tallahassee.  Can't say I am surprise you let your hatred get in the way of your football intellect. IF you were to look at things objectively, for even one second, you would realize how dumb it is to want Mariota on our team starting in 2015.  Moronical.  Ou will learn soon enough.  Just like you have been dead wrong about everything else.  You will be wrong here.

    • Marcia

      Participant
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      No matter how many times you say he goes through his reads in college, it's not true. It's not a criticism to say that he doesn't have to do it, it's just reality. Doesn't mean he can't learn to do it, though.

      I disagree 1000%. Some plays in that offense are one read and either throw or run....the vast majority of the time you can clearly see him go through his reads and hit his 2nd or 3rd target.

      I'm officially done with you.  You know nothing about QB in the pros. Nothing at all. This will be the pin I save as we progress.  You are a complete and utter football idiot.  Wow.

    • Anonymous

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      LOL, no one on this board knows what they’re talking about. We’re all just guessing and sometimes we’re right, sometimes we’re wrong.

    • Anonymous

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      What if Mariota was the QB at FSU, and Crab Rape was the QB at Ducktown?

    • Anonymous

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      Then the criticism of Winston would be that he hasn’t had to go through his progressions and make NFL throws and Mariota would either be the consensus #1 or a later, project pick.

    • Marcia

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      Winston has been touted since his junior year in high school as an NFL QB.  Thats about all anyone needs to know. He’ lived up to the hype.

    • Anonymous

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      Winston has been touted since his junior year in high school as an NFL QB. Thats about all anyone needs to know. He' lived up to the hype.

      An example of why NOBOBY takes you seriously.

    • Anonymous

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      What if Mariota was the QB at FSU, and Crab Rape was the QB at Ducktown?

      One crab and you’re a crab raper – tough crowd…

    • Anonymous

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      Rod how about you go in that Chip Kelly on Mariota thread and eat your crow?Man up ladybug.

      Fat chance.

      He'd just claim that Kelly made it up...it would be an easy dodge.

    • Anonymous

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      Sapp just said on the pregame show that the he doesn't want the Bucs to have the 1st overall because he doesn't want them to take Mariota.

      Sapp is a hall of fame player but as an NFL analyst he rarely says anything noteworthy. He actually thought Glennon was a good QB. Former player or otherwise, if you don't think this team needs an upgrade at QB using the #1 or 2 pick I'll assume you're still think this is the 90's with bucball like Lovie Smith.

    • Anonymous

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      I understand where Sapp is coming from. Winston fire appeals to fiery guys like Sapp/Hardy because of the similarity they have and they know they themselves are able to ascend a unit. Sapp sees it as a way to get our swagger back.I want to quote what I posted in another thread concerning Winston

      Just offering some facts and opinionsWhat I absolutely love about Winston are his intangibles. The guy just believes in himself, when EJ was still qb he was still the guy hyping his team up to go out and play, A freshman QB speaking above the senior future 1st round pick, Jimbo Fisher has pointed out in how smart Winston is, referring to it as speaking to a coach.Another intangible I like about him is that he's not scared to call his own plays which shows maturity as a qb to be able to read defenses, Jimbo has gotten in argument with Winston because of changing his plays too often.The guy is an immature idiot when it has nothing to do with football, but he strikes me as one of those guys that has too much pride in himself to fail his team when they need him.From a field general aspect he reminds me of Brady/ManningThere's something that Winston has, that not many guys have in the decades of NFL, his leadership to me is iconic, think Ray Lewis.Of course I could be dead wrong and Winston joins the class of first round qb busts, seeing as how his game has gotten a bit complacent this yearI'd like to add Mariota does remind me of Wilson as a leader, a calm, ready, confident deameanor.This draft reminds me of the draft with Luck and RG3(hindsight 20/20) and wished we had a high enough pick to take either of themIn the end...We Tampa fans should be ecstatic that we are in this position, the prospect of landing either of these 2 guys has me the most excited I've ever been for an off-season.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 6506

      No matter how many times you say he goes through his reads in college, it's not true. It's not a criticism to say that he doesn't have to do it, it's just reality. Doesn't mean he can't learn to do it, though.

      I disagree 1000%. Some plays in that offense are one read and either throw or run....the vast majority of the time you can clearly see him go through his reads and hit his 2nd or 3rd target.

      I'm officially done with you.  You know nothing about QB in the pros. Nothing at all. This will be the pin I save as we progress.  You are a complete and utter football idiot.  Wow.

      I'm glad it is official! Lol.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 273

      Not only does he go through his progressions quickly and effectively, but he does a good job of looking off safeties....which is huge for a college QB.http://draftbreakdown.com/video/marcus-mariota-vs-cal-2014/

      I don't understand why you won't just admit that Winston Runs a legit pro passing offense while Mariotoa runs a gimmicky college passing offense?  It's obvious to anyone who's watched either of these guys play but you just skirt around the real issue as if it doesn't exist... as usual.  New years day Jdouble.  Even someone with your negligible football IQ won't be able to miss it when both guys are on the same field. 

    • Anonymous

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      If its such a pro ready offense , why did Manuel, Ponder , and Jamarcus Russell (all 1st rounders) all look so utterly UNREADY in the NFL ? Meanwhile Chip Kellys system is working in the NFL. Even for bums like Sanchez.Do explain how system is your deciding factor here. Lol

    • Anonymous

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      What if Mariota was the QB at FSU, and Crab Rape was the QB at Ducktown?

      Oregon would be playing someone else in the Rose Bowl.  No way is FSU undefeated without Winston.  I don't care how good you think Mariota is. 

    • Anonymous

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      If its such a pro ready offense , why did Manuel, Ponder , and Jamarcus Russell (all 1st rounders) all look so utterly UNREADY in the NFL ? Meanwhile Chip Kellys system is working in the NFL. Even for bums like Sanchez.Do explain how system is your deciding factor here. Lol

      I think it's funny that, apparently, a guy can learn a new system in college yet cannot ever learn any other system ever again.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 273

      If its such a pro ready offense , why did Manuel, Ponder , and Jamarcus Russell (all 1st rounders) all look so utterly UNREADY in the NFL ? Meanwhile Chip Kellys system is working in the NFL. Even for bums like Sanchez.Do explain how system is your deciding factor here. Lol

      I've been watching FSU football since I was a kid.  Comparing Ponder and E.J. to Winston proves my point not yours.  Winston has been 10 times the QB either of those guys were and it's not just because they've won.  Listen, a lot of college teams run a pro style passing game but they have QB's who make it look like they don't.  If you watch FSU the last two seasons you'll see an offense that's powered by a passing game that relies most heavily on 10 to 20 yard crossing patters or outs with a fair share of well placed deep balls and a rare swing pass usually as a safety valve throw.  It isn't that much different from the Bucs play calling when we started Glennon this season.  Glennon is a pocket passer with a strong arm... he just isn't a very good one.  The routes and the depth of the routes are pretty similar to the what Jamis is throwing at FSU.  Last of all is the drops.  While the drops don't seem like a big deal to many laymen time and time again you'll see a college QB who's taken most of his snaps from the shotgun have real trouble adjusting to passing from under center.  This is another instance where Winston is running an offense using 5 and 7 step drops on passing plays as well as the shotgun.  Mariota throws almost exclusively from the shotgun.  It's a big deal and part of what makes Oregon's offense "not" a pro style passing game. Edit: Russel played for LSU and was drafted on the merits of his physical freakishness.  He was never a lights out pocket passer so the comparisons are unwarranted.  Ponder and E.J. sort of ran the same offense but they were both rolled out of the pocket a lot more and I think this illustrates the point I was trying to make about college teams running pro style offense but the QB's not being able to make it look like it.  Jimbo was calling plays for all three of these guys.  Why did the offense look more like it was about roll outs and check down throws when those guys were running the offense?  No... Winston is a rare talent and we'd be fools if we pass on him. 

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 136

      Attempting to discuss Winston/Mariota with a bunch of biased Florida State fans is going to be impossible.You don't take a guy who threw 17(!!) picks in college and has the long list of character issues that Jameis does over Mariota. You just don't.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 136

      If its such a pro ready offense , why did Manuel, Ponder , and Jamarcus Russell (all 1st rounders) all look so utterly UNREADY in the NFL ? Meanwhile Chip Kellys system is working in the NFL. Even for bums like Sanchez.Do explain how system is your deciding factor here. Lol

      I've been watching FSU football since I was a kid.

      Here's an unbiased opinon.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      Attempting to discuss Winston/Mariota with a bunch of biased Florida State fans is going to be impossible.You don't take a guy who threw 17(!!) picks in college and has the long list of character issues that Jameis does over Mariota. You just don't.

      You tell em. With that said, I'll take either one.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 273

      Attempting to discuss Winston/Mariota with a bunch of biased Florida State fans is going to be impossible.You don't take a guy who threw 17(!!) picks in college and has the long list of character issues that Jameis does over Mariota. You just don't.

      Let me guess... Still bitter about Tebow?  I try hard to leave my personal biases at the door.  I'm trying to explain to you exactly why Winston is a rare talent in terms of football x's and o's not just give you rah rah stuff.  It's not just me either.  Already some draft experts have pointed out the same things I'm saying and Cowherd rambled for 20 minutes the other day about why Winston was a much better prospect. 

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 136

      Attempting to discuss Winston/Mariota with a bunch of biased Florida State fans is going to be impossible.You don't take a guy who threw 17(!!) picks in college and has the long list of character issues that Jameis does over Mariota. You just don't.

      Let me guess... Still bitter about Tebow?  I try hard to leave my personal biases at the door.  I'm trying to explain to you exactly why Winston is a rare talent in terms of football x's and o's not just give you rah rah stuff.  It's not just me either.  Already some draft experts have pointed out the same things I'm saying and Cowherd rambled for 20 minutes the other day about why Winston was a much better prospect.

      Tebow? I'm not from Florida. Mariota plays in a better conference, put up way better numbers, and has no baggage. Winston just put up 24 TDs/17 INTs, is an accused rapist and a thief. There's no argument to be had here. It's a no brainer.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 273

      If its such a pro ready offense , why did Manuel, Ponder , and Jamarcus Russell (all 1st rounders) all look so utterly UNREADY in the NFL ? Meanwhile Chip Kellys system is working in the NFL. Even for bums like Sanchez.Do explain how system is your deciding factor here. Lol

      I've been watching FSU football since I was a kid.

      Here's an unbiased opinon.

      So what?  I've been watching the Bucs my whole life too.  You don't hear me shouting the virtues of Mike Glennon like some of you fools.  Besides that, one of you people asked me to explain why Winston is running a pro style passing game.  I'm explaining things, I know for a fact most of you don't understand about football.  Most football fans are dumb as bricks about the game.  It's like... TD is good, completed pass is good, first down good, sack good.  How we got there is beyond most of you people. 

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 136

      If its such a pro ready offense , why did Manuel, Ponder , and Jamarcus Russell (all 1st rounders) all look so utterly UNREADY in the NFL ? Meanwhile Chip Kellys system is working in the NFL. Even for bums like Sanchez.Do explain how system is your deciding factor here. Lol

      I've been watching FSU football since I was a kid.

      Here's an unbiased opinon.

      So what?  I've been watching the Bucs my whole life too.  You don't hear me shouting the virtues of Mike Glennon like some of you fools.  Besides that, one of you people asked me to explain why Winston is running a pro style passing game.  I'm explaining things, I know for a fact most of you don't understand about football.  Most football fans are dumb as bricks about the game.  It's like... TD is good, completed pass is good, first down good, sack good.  How we got there is beyond most of you people.

      That's great. He ran a more pro style offense and put up 24 TDs and 17 INTs in the ACC. At least he ran a pro style offense though!

    • Anonymous

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      Well, if Colin Cowherd said it, it MUST be true.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 273

      Attempting to discuss Winston/Mariota with a bunch of biased Florida State fans is going to be impossible.You don't take a guy who threw 17(!!) picks in college and has the long list of character issues that Jameis does over Mariota. You just don't.

      Let me guess... Still bitter about Tebow?  I try hard to leave my personal biases at the door.  I'm trying to explain to you exactly why Winston is a rare talent in terms of football x's and o's not just give you rah rah stuff.  It's not just me either.  Already some draft experts have pointed out the same things I'm saying and Cowherd rambled for 20 minutes the other day about why Winston was a much better prospect.

      Tebow? I'm not from Florida. Mariota plays in a better conference, put up way better numbers, and has no baggage. Winston just put up 24 TDs/17 INTs, is an accused rapist and a thief. There's no argument to be had here. It's a no brainer.

      My point exactly.  The extent of your football knowledge is to break down the same 4 stats and talk about crab legs.  I'm asking you to watch the game (Rose Bowl) and tell me you can't see the difference in the depth of the routes and the accuracy on legitimate NFL throws.  We aren't just talking about being able to complete a swing pass here. 

    • Anonymous

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      Maturity is Jameis’ biggest issue. If he had kept his nose clean, then he would be the obvious choice.The lack of maturity though, almost makes him a bigger risk than Mariota. Sure Mariota will have more to learn and the transition could take a little longer, but it's easy to predict that Mariota will probably be the one who is more focused on continuous improvement in the pros. That factor makes Mariota look like the better overall prospect when thinking past their first 2-3 seasons.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 136

      Attempting to discuss Winston/Mariota with a bunch of biased Florida State fans is going to be impossible.You don't take a guy who threw 17(!!) picks in college and has the long list of character issues that Jameis does over Mariota. You just don't.

      Let me guess... Still bitter about Tebow?  I try hard to leave my personal biases at the door.  I'm trying to explain to you exactly why Winston is a rare talent in terms of football x's and o's not just give you rah rah stuff.  It's not just me either.  Already some draft experts have pointed out the same things I'm saying and Cowherd rambled for 20 minutes the other day about why Winston was a much better prospect.

      Tebow? I'm not from Florida. Mariota plays in a better conference, put up way better numbers, and has no baggage. Winston just put up 24 TDs/17 INTs, is an accused rapist and a thief. There's no argument to be had here. It's a no brainer.

      My point exactly.  The extent of your football knowledge is to break down the same 4 stats and talk about crab legs.  I'm asking you to watch the game (Rose Bowl) and tell me you can't see the difference in the depth of the routes and the accuracy on legitimate NFL throws.  We aren't just talking about being able to complete a swing pass here.

      Oh God. Here we go. We'll overlook the fact he put up mediocre numbers in a mediocre conference because by golly he'll throw the whole route tree! Sure, he'll throw 4 TDs and 7 picks against the murders row of Florida, Virgina, and Boston College but he'll throw the dig route with the best of them!

    • Anonymous

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      Florida was his worst game in two years.  Even Brady and Luck have bad games every so often. 

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      Attempting to discuss Winston/Mariota with a bunch of biased Florida State fans is going to be impossible.You don't take a guy who threw 17(!!) picks in college and has the long list of character issues that Jameis does over Mariota. You just don't.

      Let me guess... Still bitter about Tebow? 

      Typical idiot Nole fan response.. typical.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 273

      Maturity is Jameis' biggest issue. If he had kept his nose clean, then he would be the obvious choice.The lack of maturity though, almost makes him a bigger risk than Mariota. Sure Mariota will have more to learn and the transition could take a little longer, but it's easy to predict that Mariota will probably be the one who is more focused on continuous improvement in the pros. That factor makes Mariota look like the better overall prospect when thinking past their first 2-3 seasons.

      Sure it's a big red flag but the upside with Winston is much higher than it is with Mariota.  I don't want to try to run some gimmick offense because of my QB.  I want to run Patriots/Broncos QB reliant offense with the big boys.  That's the upside of Winston.  He could be that good of a pocket passer.  Sure he could be a miss but so could Mariota and even if he looks good at first I can't help but think of teams figuring him out a la Colin Kapernick.  Give the a chance at the homerun every time. 

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 273

      Attempting to discuss Winston/Mariota with a bunch of biased Florida State fans is going to be impossible.You don't take a guy who threw 17(!!) picks in college and has the long list of character issues that Jameis does over Mariota. You just don't.

      Let me guess... Still bitter about Tebow? 

      Typical idiot Nole fan response.. typical.

      Cmon man.  If you know anything about Florida football it's that every Gator Fan HATES Jamis Winston.  Some of the vocal critics are undoubtedly Tebow loving Gator fans. 

    • Anonymous

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      I thought Tebow would be a no-talent azz clown in the pro’s, AND I think Winston will flame out due to his own stupidity.Plus I could care less about either Oregon or FSU or Florida. So, your homer argument doesn't hold water. Of course, whenever you guys use "our offense" or "our team" to describe FSU...well......

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Maturity is Jameis' biggest issue. If he had kept his nose clean, then he would be the obvious choice.The lack of maturity though, almost makes him a bigger risk than Mariota. Sure Mariota will have more to learn and the transition could take a little longer, but it's easy to predict that Mariota will probably be the one who is more focused on continuous improvement in the pros. That factor makes Mariota look like the better overall prospect when thinking past their first 2-3 seasons.

      Sure it's a big red flag but the upside with Winston is much higher than it is with Mariota.  I don't want to try to run some gimmick offense because of my QB.  I want to run Patriots/Broncos QB reliant offense with the big boys.  That's the upside of Winston.  He could be that good of a pocket passer.  Sure he could be a miss but so could Mariota and even if he looks good at first I can't help but think of teams figuring him out a la Colin Kapernick.  Give the a chance at the homerun every time.

      You never get that type of team if your QB you hope to rely on is a repeat offender of stupidity. You can't bank on Winston. That's why its dicey.And who says Mariota cant do those things and that his ceiling is not as high? He hasn't failed on anything he's been asked to do yet.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Attempting to discuss Winston/Mariota with a bunch of biased Florida State fans is going to be impossible.You don't take a guy who threw 17(!!) picks in college and has the long list of character issues that Jameis does over Mariota. You just don't.

      Let me guess... Still bitter about Tebow? 

      Typical idiot Nole fan response.. typical.

      Cmon man.  If you know anything about Florida football it's that every Gator Fan HATES Jamis Winston.  Some of the vocal critics are undoubtedly Tebow loving Gator fans.

      Not true but carry on with that idea.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
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      Maturity is Jameis' biggest issue. If he had kept his nose clean, then he would be the obvious choice.The lack of maturity though, almost makes him a bigger risk than Mariota. Sure Mariota will have more to learn and the transition could take a little longer, but it's easy to predict that Mariota will probably be the one who is more focused on continuous improvement in the pros. That factor makes Mariota look like the better overall prospect when thinking past their first 2-3 seasons.

      Sure it's a big red flag but the upside with Winston is much higher than it is with Mariota.  I don't want to try to run some gimmick offense because of my QB.  I want to run Patriots/Broncos QB reliant offense with the big boys.  That's the upside of Winston.  He could be that good of a pocket passer.  Sure he could be a miss but so could Mariota and even if he looks good at first I can't help but think of teams figuring him out a la Colin Kapernick.  Give the a chance at the homerun every time.

      I don't know about much higher. Mariota has the ability to throw from the pocket and diagnose defensive coverages. He showed that against a top tier defense when they played MSU. I don't think we would have to run a "gimmick" offense with Mariota. A lot of Kap's problem is that he hasn't put in the work to develop as a passer. He has hit a wall, and the only thing that will get him over it is continuing to adapt his game and not get comfortable with his athleticism. Mariota strikes me as a guy who will use his athletic ability, but will be wise enough to follow coaching an only use it when absolutely necessary.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5438

      Maturity is Jameis' biggest issue. If he had kept his nose clean, then he would be the obvious choice.The lack of maturity though, almost makes him a bigger risk than Mariota. Sure Mariota will have more to learn and the transition could take a little longer, but it's easy to predict that Mariota will probably be the one who is more focused on continuous improvement in the pros. That factor makes Mariota look like the better overall prospect when thinking past their first 2-3 seasons.

      Sure it's a big red flag but the upside with Winston is much higher than it is with Mariota.  I don't want to try to run some gimmick offense because of my QB.  I want to run Patriots/Broncos QB reliant offense with the big boys.  That's the upside of Winston.  He could be that good of a pocket passer.  Sure he could be a miss but so could Mariota and even if he looks good at first I can't help but think of teams figuring him out a la Colin Kapernick.  Give the a chance at the homerun every time.

      You never get that type of team if your QB you hope to rely on is a repeat offender of stupidity. You can't bank on Winston. That's why its dicey.And who says Mariota cant do those things and that his ceiling is not as high? He hasn't failed on anything he's been asked to do yet.

      ....because, he comes from a specialized collegiate spread offense. I mean, it's not like guys such as Drew Brees, Ben R, and Joe Flacco have come from those types of systems and had NFL success....Oh wait..

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Maturity is Jameis' biggest issue. If he had kept his nose clean, then he would be the obvious choice.The lack of maturity though, almost makes him a bigger risk than Mariota. Sure Mariota will have more to learn and the transition could take a little longer, but it's easy to predict that Mariota will probably be the one who is more focused on continuous improvement in the pros. That factor makes Mariota look like the better overall prospect when thinking past their first 2-3 seasons.

      Sure it's a big red flag but the upside with Winston is much higher than it is with Mariota.  I don't want to try to run some gimmick offense because of my QB.  I want to run Patriots/Broncos QB reliant offense with the big boys.  That's the upside of Winston.  He could be that good of a pocket passer.  Sure he could be a miss but so could Mariota and even if he looks good at first I can't help but think of teams figuring him out a la Colin Kapernick.  Give the a chance at the homerun every time.

      You never get that type of team if your QB you hope to rely on is a repeat offender of stupidity. You can't bank on Winston. That's why its dicey.And who says Mariota cant do those things and that his ceiling is not as high? He hasn't failed on anything he's been asked to do yet.

      ....because, he comes from a specialized collegiate spread offense. I mean, it's not like guys such as Drew Brees, Ben R, and Joe Flacco have come from those types of systems and had NFL success....Oh wait..

      Yeah - those QBs you mentioned played in read one or run offenses in college.  lol

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 648

      Maturity is Jameis' biggest issue. If he had kept his nose clean, then he would be the obvious choice.The lack of maturity though, almost makes him a bigger risk than Mariota. Sure Mariota will have more to learn and the transition could take a little longer, but it's easy to predict that Mariota will probably be the one who is more focused on continuous improvement in the pros. That factor makes Mariota look like the better overall prospect when thinking past their first 2-3 seasons.

      Sure it's a big red flag but the upside with Winston is much higher than it is with Mariota.  I don't want to try to run some gimmick offense because of my QB.  I want to run Patriots/Broncos QB reliant offense with the big boys.  That's the upside of Winston.  He could be that good of a pocket passer.  Sure he could be a miss but so could Mariota and even if he looks good at first I can't help but think of teams figuring him out a la Colin Kapernick.  Give the a chance at the homerun every time.

      You never get that type of team if your QB you hope to rely on is a repeat offender of stupidity. You can't bank on Winston. That's why its dicey.And who says Mariota cant do those things and that his ceiling is not as high? He hasn't failed on anything he's been asked to do yet.

      ....because, he comes from a specialized collegiate spread offense. I mean, it's not like guys such as Drew Brees, Ben R, and Joe Flacco have come from those types of systems and had NFL success....Oh wait..

      spread offense yes but not spread option with a  running qb. big difference!! i'm scared drafting either of these guys!

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 273

      Maturity is Jameis' biggest issue. If he had kept his nose clean, then he would be the obvious choice.The lack of maturity though, almost makes him a bigger risk than Mariota. Sure Mariota will have more to learn and the transition could take a little longer, but it's easy to predict that Mariota will probably be the one who is more focused on continuous improvement in the pros. That factor makes Mariota look like the better overall prospect when thinking past their first 2-3 seasons.

      Sure it's a big red flag but the upside with Winston is much higher than it is with Mariota.  I don't want to try to run some gimmick offense because of my QB.  I want to run Patriots/Broncos QB reliant offense with the big boys.  That's the upside of Winston.  He could be that good of a pocket passer.  Sure he could be a miss but so could Mariota and even if he looks good at first I can't help but think of teams figuring him out a la Colin Kapernick.  Give the a chance at the homerun every time.

      You never get that type of team if your QB you hope to rely on is a repeat offender of stupidity. You can't bank on Winston. That's why its dicey.And who says Mariota cant do those things and that his ceiling is not as high? He hasn't failed on anything he's been asked to do yet.

      ....because, he comes from a specialized collegiate spread offense. I mean, it's not like guys such as Drew Brees, Ben R, and Joe Flacco have come from those types of systems and had NFL success....Oh wait..

      Yeah - those QBs you mentioned played in read one or run offenses in college.  lol

      I'll be honest and admit that I didn't watch a ton of Miami OH, or Delaware football games but I do think both those guys were throwing the whole passing tree in college.  Now Brees I remember watching and he most definitely was.  Brees was a gunslinger and threw the ball all over the field at Purdue and this is exactly what I like about Winston.  Mariota is not a gunslinger.  The offense they run is way to dependent on short passing, homerun deep balls and QB runs.  To compare him with Brees at Purdue?  I'm not seeing it. 

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1417

      Everytime the Ducks lose, Mariota’s stats are down. And although a small sample size, it looks like when he can’t run well his passing takes a hit (Kaepernick). Everyone on this board should watch those 3 losses and see how excited they are about Mariota.Then everyone should watch film of Winston's losses and compare.And youngone, Mariota hasn't done everything asked of him. He hasn't won a championship. The Ducks have been a top team his whole career and he hasn't gotten him to the big game. Hell they went to the big game a year before with a nobody QB. Winston turned a good college team into a historic team his first year. He has the guts to make that winning throw instead of always checking down or running.And I am a lifelong UMIAMI fan that absolutely hates FSU.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2608

      Can everyone change their avatar to the college team they follow so we know whose opinion to take with a grain of salt? For some reason, I didn’t think this would just be about UF and FSU fans extending their rivalries into bashing/praising a guy.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1417

      Lastly, he’s been cleared numerous times on the rape allegations so can we put that to rest. Everyone thinks he is an idiot because that is their starting point. If you completely remove that, he’s shot a bb gun at squireels off campus, stolen 22 dollars in crab legs, and shouted a viral video in a cafeteria. Does that really make him a terrible person? Has anyone in college not done a whole lot worse and turned out ok?those stories wouldn't even be printed if he wasn't accused of rape by a woman who looks to be going for a cash grab.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 273

      Can everyone change their avatar to the college team they follow so we know whose opinion to take with a grain of salt? For some reason, I didn't think this would just be about UF and FSU fans extending their rivalries into bashing/praising a guy.

      Hey it doesn't have to be but you should consider that the majority of Buc fans are probably FSU/UF or UM fans and those rivalries run way deeper than people who aren't associated probably think.  This is Florida after all.  Also, the Tebow homers on this board during those years will probably never be forgotten.  Legendary board banter.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2608

      Hey it doesn't have to be but you should consider that the majority of Buc fans are probably FSU/UF or UM fans and those rivalries run way deeper than people who aren't associated probably think.  This is Florida after all.  Also, the Tebow homers on this board during those years will probably never be forgotten.  Legendary board banter.

      I understand it and definitely don't begrudge anyone for being incapable of objectivity because they are too loyal to their college team, but it makes debating seem pointless when you realize the guy you're discussing Winston with is really saying, "Everything from FSU sux!!! TEBOW RULES!" or "Winston should be #1 because the Bucs should have never passed on Charlie Ward and this is their chance to fix that mistake!!!!"

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 273

      Everytime the Ducks lose, Mariota's stats are down. And although a small sample size, it looks like when he can't run well his passing takes a hit (Kaepernick). Everyone on this board should watch those 3 losses and see how excited they are about Mariota.Then everyone should watch film of Winston's losses and compare.And youngone, Mariota hasn't done everything asked of him. He hasn't won a championship. The Ducks have been a top team his whole career and he hasn't gotten him to the big game. Hell they went to the big game a year before with a nobody QB. Winston turned a good college team into a historic team his first year. He has the guts to make that winning throw instead of always checking down or running.And I am a lifelong UMIAMI fan that absolutely hates FSU.

      Props to a Miami fan who can watch a football game and actually understand what he's looking at.  Also, you mentioned in your other post about the sexually explicit rant Winston went on was actually a viral video thing.  He didn't start it.  I didn't understand why he even said that stuff until my brother showed me the 1000 youtube videos of people randomly running up to reporters and saying that live on air.  So... it's not exactly an excuse but clearly he got carried away with something that he and probly most of his buddies thought was funny as heck. You're talking about college guys here.  It's not really that surprising.

    • Anonymous

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      If only we had gotten Weinke…

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1417

      Also Andrew Luck, had 10 picks his last year and his picks increased each year. I’d hate to have that guy.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 273

      Hey it doesn't have to be but you should consider that the majority of Buc fans are probably FSU/UF or UM fans and those rivalries run way deeper than people who aren't associated probably think.  This is Florida after all.  Also, the Tebow homers on this board during those years will probably never be forgotten.  Legendary board banter.

      I understand it and definitely don't begrudge anyone for being incapable of objectivity because they are too loyal to their college team, but it makes debating seem pointless when you realize the guy you're discussing Winston with is really saying, "Everything from FSU sux!!! TEBOW RULES!" or "Winston should be #1 because the Bucs should have never passed on Charlie Ward and this is their chance to fix that mistake!!!!"

      I don't understand why you think, just because I've been watching FSU football my whole life, I can't be objective.  Everything I've pointed out is being said by some experts and you shouldn't need an expert to look at what these teams are running and appreciate that one guy is already running a pro style passing game while the other is not.  I don't think pointing that out makes me a homer.  I think only dummies and kids do what you're talking about.  I mean, I watched E.J. and Ponder too and I can assure you that Jamis isn't even on the same planet.  I couldn't believe when Ponder got drafted in the first round.  So if anything I think an experienced, knowledgeable, FSU or UF fan can absolutely have a reasonable conversation about players coming out of those schools.  I mean, if you can't tell the difference between the homer kids and a knowledgeable, veteran football fan then you just aren't trying.  Edit: Re Charlie Ward, I loved him as a college QB but he was undersized and didn't have the arm strength that Winston has.  Most of his best work was on rollouts and draw plays.  In the Ward years FSU ran 95% of their offense out of the shotgun. Winston is the best passing QB ever to come out of FSU.  At least in the years I've been able to watch and I go all the way back to Danny McManus. 

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 672

      Mariota’s stats in his losses:20-32 276 yds 2 TDs 0 INTs 1 rushing yard20-34 250 yds 2 TDs 0 INTs -16 rushing yards27-41 308 yds 2 TDs 2 INTs 52 rushing yards21-37 207 yds 1 TD 1 INT 89 rushing yardsSo in two of his losses he didn't run well...and 2 he did.If you go back and look at every game he's played in...only half of them has he run for more than 50 yards. In fact...for his career he averages about 54 rushing yards a game. He also averages about 7 rushing attempts per game. He's not as much a runner as people make him out to be.Guys like Tebow, Kaepernick, and Vick ran the ball almost twice as much. Vick and Kaepernick's completion percentage is way lower.

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Mariota's stats in his losses:20-32 276 yds 2 TDs 0 INTs 1 rushing yard20-34 250 yds 2 TDs 0 INTs -16 rushing yards27-41 308 yds 2 TDs 2 INTs 52 rushing yards21-37 207 yds 1 TD 1 INT 89 rushing yardsSo in two of his losses he didn't run well...and 2 he did.If you go back and look at every game he's played in...only half of them has he run for more than 50 yards. In fact...for his career he averages about 54 rushing yards a game. He also averages about 7 rushing attempts per game. He's not as much a runner as people make him out to be.Guys like Tebow, Kaepernick, and Vick ran the ball almost twice as much. Vick and Kaepernick's completion percentage is way lower.

      And I would add, just the threat of QB that can run it, is a good thing.  He doesn't have to be Marshawn Lynch.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1507

      I grew up a Florida fan and go to Michigan.I want Jameis because he's built to better handle the beating that our offensive line no doubt will give him and he's going to be less receptive to the garbage coaching that we can expect under Lovie here.In addition, I believe Marcus needs to be placed in a more creative offense, which I don't ever see being a thing here. He is too good a kid to be thrown into a can't-win situation and that's exactly what he would be in here.

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      I grew up a Florida fan and go to Michigan.I want Jameis because he's built to better handle the beating that our offensive line no doubt will give him and he's going to be less receptive to the garbage coaching that we can expect under Lovie here.In addition, I believe Marcus needs to be placed in a more creative offense, which I don't ever see being a thing here. He is too good a kid to be thrown into a can't-win situation and that's exactly what he would be in here.

      Hiring a good modern day innovative OC would solve the Mariota problem.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1507

      I grew up a Florida fan and go to Michigan.I want Jameis because he's built to better handle the beating that our offensive line no doubt will give him and he's going to be less receptive to the garbage coaching that we can expect under Lovie here.In addition, I believe Marcus needs to be placed in a more creative offense, which I don't ever see being a thing here. He is too good a kid to be thrown into a can't-win situation and that's exactly what he would be in here.

      Hiring a good modern day innovative OC would solve the Mariota problem.

      Lovie won’t do that and if he does, will not let him flourish.

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      I grew up a Florida fan and go to Michigan.I want Jameis because he's built to better handle the beating that our offensive line no doubt will give him and he's going to be less receptive to the garbage coaching that we can expect under Lovie here.In addition, I believe Marcus needs to be placed in a more creative offense, which I don't ever see being a thing here. He is too good a kid to be thrown into a can't-win situation and that's exactly what he would be in here.

      Hiring a good modern day innovative OC would solve the Mariota problem.

      Lovie won't do that and if he does, will not let him flourish.

      Well, he did hire Tedford.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 273

      I grew up a Florida fan and go to Michigan.I want Jameis because he's built to better handle the beating that our offensive line no doubt will give him and he's going to be less receptive to the garbage coaching that we can expect under Lovie here.In addition, I believe Marcus needs to be placed in a more creative offense, which I don't ever see being a thing here. He is too good a kid to be thrown into a can't-win situation and that's exactly what he would be in here.

      I love how this place works. Year in and year out you'd think every coach the Bucs ever had was the dumbest human being ever given such a job.  Schiano is a perfect example.  He was a damned good football coach if he'd have ever been given a chance to succeed.  Gruden also run out of town by the fair weather kiddies.  If I'm the Glazers I'm telling him, not only does he have next year but he has the year after that as well.  Do any of you kids Remember Radio Raheem?  Shoot.  Most of you wouldn't know a bad football coach if you were his personal assistant.  Lovie will be fine. 

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 19

      I am not invested in either qb prospect.  Both look to have the talent to make it in the NBA.  No indication at all that Winston doesn’t have a strong work ethic.  His persona is highly competitive.Either of these would likely bring attention to the franchise.I really don't get all the animosity toward Lovie.  I do get that mistakes were made.  They should not have conducted a fire sale to rid themselves of three starting offensive lineman, though I do believe all three played poorly last year.  I will be very disappointed if they don't fire the offensive line coach and seek decent replacements with NFL experience.  If they retain the offensive coordinator, then you won't find me on this board, and that will tell that the emphasis is not on winning.  However, I'm not expecting miracle reversals.  Let's face it, Andrew Luck is the only quarterback drafted in the first round in the past three years to lead his team to the playoffs.  This year's crop don't excite me:  Minnesota:  6 wins;  Oakland: 3 wins; Jacksonville 3 wins;  Cleveland (0 wins with rookie starting).  Drafting a franchise quarterback (potentially) will induce excitement, but we're looking at a slow climb back to respectability.  The one thing we have is a reasonably good defense in place.  Even with all the injuries, these guys have been playing hard as evinced by their goal-line stand yesterday and their play without McCoy.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 145

      Good lord…none of us KNOW how either of these young men will turn out as pros.  Even the scouts and prognosticators don’t KNOW…they have opinions.  Some folks on these boards talk in absolutes like they have the power to see the future…but then if they had that…they wouldn’t be on these boards…they’d be sunning in Monte Carlo.Jameis...strong arm, tons of swagger, absolute confidence, fiery field demeanor.  Sometimes careless with the ball, perhaps in part due to his self-confidence.  Has exhibited poor off the field judgment.  His issues in isolation would not be as concerning...but as a reigning Heisman winner with a sexual assault charge hanging like the sword of Damocles...one would think he would recognize the level of scrutiny he would be under and avoid placing himself in ensuing situations that would result in potential criminal charges, suspension and ridicule.  Marcus....elite athleticism.  Excellent judgment, takes care of the ball/makes good decisions with the ball.  Has displayed strong off the field character.  More of a quiet leader.  Will need to adapt to a more pro-style offense and prove he can go through his progressions.  Arm strength is good, but not elite.  As a long-suffering Bucs fan who has never seen a true franchise QB line up behind center...I don't freaking care which one we take...I vacillate between the two...I just want one of them.  And I'm certainly not going to pretend like I have some magical power that gives me the gift of knowing the damn future...and knowing that one will definitely flourish while the other will definitely bust.  Stupid, stupid, stupid.  Tout your personal choice...but can we stop diminishing the other?  It's no wonder politicians feed us non-stop negative ads...too many of you feed off of it.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 672

      ^Agreed 100%. I like Mariota more...but I'd take either. I honestly don't care. I am sick and tired of my team not having a franchise QB. Dilfer was a bust. I never liked the Freeman pick and thought he was overrated coming out of college. Freeman did surprise me and just as I started to maybe I was wrong...he fell flat on his face. He had a horrible completion percentage in college.Over the past 20 years this team has had 11 different starting QBs. It's time we finally get a guy who's going to stick around for a decade. For the love of god we are due. I don't care who it is. Both of these guys (while maybe not in the Luck/Manning category) are much better prospects than any QB we have ever had in a LONG LONG time...since probably Vinny.

    • billym

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      Post count: 3348

      Good lord...none of us KNOW how either of these young men will turn out as pros.  Even the scouts and prognosticators don't KNOW...they have opinions.  Some folks on these boards talk in absolutes like they have the power to see the future...but then if they had that...they wouldn't be on these boards...they'd be sunning in Monte Carlo.Jameis...strong arm, tons of swagger, absolute confidence, fiery field demeanor.  Sometimes careless with the ball, perhaps in part due to his self-confidence.  Has exhibited poor off the field judgment.  His issues in isolation would not be as concerning...but as a reigning Heisman winner with a sexual assault charge hanging like the sword of Damocles...one would think he would recognize the level of scrutiny he would be under and avoid placing himself in ensuing situations that would result in potential criminal charges, suspension and ridicule.  Marcus....elite athleticism.  Excellent judgment, takes care of the ball/makes good decisions with the ball.  Has displayed strong off the field character.  More of a quiet leader.  Will need to adapt to a more pro-style offense and prove he can go through his progressions.  Arm strength is good, but not elite.  As a long-suffering Bucs fan who has never seen a true franchise QB line up behind center...I don't freaking care which one we take...I vacillate between the two...I just want one of them.  And I'm certainly not going to pretend like I have some magical power that gives me the gift of knowing the damn future...and knowing that one will definitely flourish while the other will definitely bust.  Stupid, stupid, stupid.  Tout your personal choice...but can we stop diminishing the other?  It's no wonder politicians feed us non-stop negative ads...too many of you feed off of it.

      Good post, but I don't believe the sexual assault thing is in play any longer.Jameis Winston ruling: No violationESPN.com  December 22, 2014, 1:48 PM ETTALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- Florida State quarterback Jameis Winston was cleared Sunday of the accusations he faced at a student code of conduct hearing involving an alleged sexual assault two years ago. Former Florida Supreme Court Justice Major Harding wrote in a letter to Winston that the evidence was "insufficient to satisfy the burden of proof." Prosecutor Willie Meggs made a similar decision a year ago when he decided not to criminally charge Winston, citing a lack of evidence. This month, a two-day hearing was held to determine whether Winston violated four sections of the code of conduct -- two for sexual misconduct and two for endangerment.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Maturity is Jameis' biggest issue. If he had kept his nose clean, then he would be the obvious choice.The lack of maturity though, almost makes him a bigger risk than Mariota. Sure Mariota will have more to learn and the transition could take a little longer, but it's easy to predict that Mariota will probably be the one who is more focused on continuous improvement in the pros. That factor makes Mariota look like the better overall prospect when thinking past their first 2-3 seasons.

      Sure it's a big red flag but the upside with Winston is much higher than it is with Mariota.  I don't want to try to run some gimmick offense because of my QB.  I want to run Patriots/Broncos QB reliant offense with the big boys.  That's the upside of Winston.  He could be that good of a pocket passer.  Sure he could be a miss but so could Mariota and even if he looks good at first I can't help but think of teams figuring him out a la Colin Kapernick.  Give the a chance at the homerun every time.

      You never get that type of team if your QB you hope to rely on is a repeat offender of stupidity. You can't bank on Winston. That's why its dicey.And who says Mariota cant do those things and that his ceiling is not as high? He hasn't failed on anything he's been asked to do yet.

      ....because, he comes from a specialized collegiate spread offense. I mean, it's not like guys such as Drew Brees, Ben R, and Joe Flacco have come from those types of systems and had NFL success....Oh wait..

      Yeah - those QBs you mentioned played in read one or run offenses in college.  lol

      I'll be honest and admit that I didn't watch a ton of Miami OH, or Delaware football games but I do think both those guys were throwing the whole passing tree in college.  Now Brees I remember watching and he most definitely was.  Brees was a gunslinger and threw the ball all over the field at Purdue and this is exactly what I like about Winston.  Mariota is not a gunslinger.  The offense they run is way to dependent on short passing, homerun deep balls and QB runs.  To compare him with Brees at Purdue?  I'm not seeing it.

      Point is, those three came from spread offenses that did not closely resemble the standard pro-style offense. One of the major criticisms on here about Mariota is that he comes from a spread that gets guys wide open by design and he won't have that luxury in the NFL. The same applies criticism could have been applied to Brees, Flacco, and Roelthisberger. There also is no evidence to back up that Mariota doesn't throw the whole passing tree. That statement is more anecdotal than factual. Does Mariota pass as much as Brees did? No. I'm not comparing them as prospects, nor as passers. Mariota has the ability to throw every pass that Winston does, he just needs to prove that he can do it on a regular basis as opposed to just on occasion.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 145

      Peanut…whether or not he was charged with the assault or not…it brought a degree of scrutiny to his behavior…rightly or wrongly.  To then engage in further inappropriate behavior while under that level of scrutiny…that’s where the real judgment issues lie.  I get that he wasn’t charged, and has now also not been held responsible under the code of conduct hearing…and I hope…with all my heart…that he did nothing wrong…because if we draft hiim I don’t want my franchise QB living under that cloud.  I would just hope he now realizes that his behavior needs to be impeccable.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5438

      ^Agreed 100%. I like Mariota more...but I'd take either. I honestly don't care. I am sick and tired of my team not having a franchise QB. Dilfer was a bust. I never liked the Freeman pick and thought he was overrated coming out of college. Freeman did surprise me and just as I started to maybe I was wrong...he fell flat on his face. He had a horrible completion percentage in college.Over the past 20 years this team has had 11 different starting QBs. It's time we finally get a guy who's going to stick around for a decade. For the love of god we are due. I don't care who it is. Both of these guys (while maybe not in the Luck/Manning category) are much better prospects than any QB we have ever had in a LONG LONG time...since probably Vinny.

      Yup. Both are good prospects in their own right. I think for the 1st time since the Ryan/Flacco draft, we will see the top 2 QBs have a decent amount of success.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 801

      If its such a pro ready offense , why did Manuel, Ponder , and Jamarcus Russell (all 1st rounders) all look so utterly UNREADY in the NFL ? Meanwhile Chip Kellys system is working in the NFL. Even for bums like Sanchez.Do explain how system is your deciding factor here. Lol

      I think it's funny that, apparently, a guy can learn a new system in college yet cannot ever learn any other system ever again.

      Seriously! It's hilarious how much this keeps coming up in regards to Mariota. 

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Peanut...whether or not he was charged with the assault or not...it brought a degree of scrutiny to his behavior...rightly or wrongly.  To then engage in further inappropriate behavior while under that level of scrutiny...that's where the real judgment issues lie.  I get that he wasn't charged, and has now also not been held responsible under the code of conduct hearing...and I hope...with all my heart...that he did nothing wrong...because if we draft hiim I don't want my franchise QB living under that cloud.  I would just hope he now realizes that his behavior needs to be impeccable.

      Couldn't agree more. Is he guilty of being immature? Sure. But people do mature with age, its a natural thing. Will he?  I am willing to take the chance on him.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1417

      I was on my phone before so it was hard to extrapolate what I was saying. His stats were fine in his losses, although well below his averages and his wins. Which shows me the team didn’t lose in spite of him. I also meant to watch them and not just read stats. I'm half way through the games and he doesn't look like the same man. But we can go through game logs and stats as well.In the loss this year he had a chance to beat Arizona with 3 mins left on the clock. He sack fumbles it away.The loss last year was a rout, because Oregon couldn't score more than 9 points through 3 quarters. In those first 3 quarters Mariota had a pick on his first attempt and a fumble on 4th and 2 when it was only 9-21 3rd Quarter incomplete pass on 4th and 2 at the AZ 6th while down 9-28. He scores his 2nd TD at the start of the 4th although they're already down 35-9 so not much real hope. He certainly cemented it though on his next drive by throwing a pick at the AZ 6.In the loss against Stanford last year the Ducks were held scoreless until 10 mins left in the 4th. The point is. Players have bad games. Winston has plenty. But somehow it doesn't phase him the whole game. When they get down he hunkers down and guts out that victory. He did it on the biggest stage in college football to boot! It doesn't even necessarily mean he takes over the game (although he makes spectacular throws in every comeback) it just means he gets it done. Whether its handing off, or checking down, or going big. He certainly doesn't fumble away games or get so far behind he can't come back or be held scoreless through 3 quarters.

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      If its such a pro ready offense , why did Manuel, Ponder , and Jamarcus Russell (all 1st rounders) all look so utterly UNREADY in the NFL ? Meanwhile Chip Kellys system is working in the NFL. Even for bums like Sanchez.Do explain how system is your deciding factor here. Lol

      I think it's funny that, apparently, a guy can learn a new system in college yet cannot ever learn any other system ever again.

      Seriously! It's hilarious how much this keeps coming up in regards to Mariota.

      Chris Carter brought up an interesting point this morning. He said, no college program runs a pro offense. EVERY QB has to learn the pro offense. No matter where you come from. There is no such thing as one QB being more ready for the NFL because his college offense was kinda/sorta like a NFL offense.  Its night and day.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5572

      If its such a pro ready offense , why did Manuel, Ponder , and Jamarcus Russell (all 1st rounders) all look so utterly UNREADY in the NFL ? Meanwhile Chip Kellys system is working in the NFL. Even for bums like Sanchez.Do explain how system is your deciding factor here. Lol

      I think it's funny that, apparently, a guy can learn a new system in college yet cannot ever learn any other system ever again.

      Seriously! It's hilarious how much this keeps coming up in regards to Mariota.

      Chris Carter brought up an interesting point this morning. He said, no college program runs a pro offense. EVERY QB has to learn the pro offense. No matter where you come from. There is no such thing as one QB being more ready for the NFL because his college offense was kinda/sorta like a NFL offense.  Its night and day.

      Exactly. Different verbiage, more complex concepts, hand signals, reading defenses, all of that stuff are things that even backup QBs are expected to do.It's like getting a job as a Sanskrit translator and saying, "Well, I'm more qualified to learn how to read Sanskrit because I took Latin in college instead of a guy who took Spanish." Yes, both involve learning a new language but neither one truly prepares you for what you'll be facing.For me, Mariota seems like the guy who will put the work in and Winston doesn't. That's all that matters.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5438

      Unless that came from the mouth of a former FSU player who played in the NFL, that statement will fall on deaf ears…

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 273

      If its such a pro ready offense , why did Manuel, Ponder , and Jamarcus Russell (all 1st rounders) all look so utterly UNREADY in the NFL ? Meanwhile Chip Kellys system is working in the NFL. Even for bums like Sanchez.Do explain how system is your deciding factor here. Lol

      I think it's funny that, apparently, a guy can learn a new system in college yet cannot ever learn any other system ever again.

      Seriously! It's hilarious how much this keeps coming up in regards to Mariota.

      Hilarious? He hasn't ever done it so.... yeah that's a big deal kiddies.  I'm not saying he can't do it or that he's incapable of adjusting but the fact is he has not run a pro passing offense, he hasn't passed out of 3-5 and 7 step drops and he hasn't showed he can consistently throw NFL style intermediate routes.  The other guy has. Why is that so outrageous?

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5188

      I grew up a Florida fan and go to Michigan.I want Jameis because he's built to better handle the beating that our offensive line no doubt will give him and he's going to be less receptive to the garbage coaching that we can expect under Lovie here.In addition, I believe Marcus needs to be placed in a more creative offense, which I don't ever see being a thing here. He is too good a kid to be thrown into a can't-win situation and that's exactly what he would be in here.

      Hiring a good modern day innovative OC would solve the Mariota problem.

      Lovie won't do that and if he does, will not let him flourish.

      Well, he did hire Tedford.

      LOL! Yeah. And he killed his playbook. Lovie wants a guy like Arroyo. A yes man who will do what he says.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1417

      Unless that came from the mouth of a former FSU player who played in the NFL, that statement will fall on deaf ears...

      It'll fall on deaf ears because it's garbage. Do QBs from a triple option team have the same degree of difficulty learning Pro offenses as QBs from a pro-esque college offense or is their learning curve a bit steeper?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Unless that came from the mouth of a former FSU player who played in the NFL, that statement will fall on deaf ears...

      It'll fall on deaf ears because it's garbage. Do QBs from a triple option team have the same degree of difficulty learning Pro offenses as QBs from a pro-esque college offense or is their learning curve a bit steeper?

      First, there haven't been any truly draftable prospects from a TO offense. The closest to come to that is Kap from Ault's pistol offense.Second. It is night and day. Winston and Mariota are going to have to put in the same amount of work to be successful in the NFL and both will have to work harder and harder and harder with each passing year.Now which one do you think has the maturity to strive for continuous improvement at the NFL level?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 273

      If its such a pro ready offense , why did Manuel, Ponder , and Jamarcus Russell (all 1st rounders) all look so utterly UNREADY in the NFL ? Meanwhile Chip Kellys system is working in the NFL. Even for bums like Sanchez.Do explain how system is your deciding factor here. Lol

      I think it's funny that, apparently, a guy can learn a new system in college yet cannot ever learn any other system ever again.

      Seriously! It's hilarious how much this keeps coming up in regards to Mariota.

      Chris Carter brought up an interesting point this morning. He said, no college program runs a pro offense. EVERY QB has to learn the pro offense. No matter where you come from. There is no such thing as one QB being more ready for the NFL because his college offense was kinda/sorta like a NFL offense.  Its night and day.

      Chris Carter is just being his usual moron self and trying to be cute.  Ok yeah the NFL is more complicated thanks for that Chris.  If we're throwing out "Expert" quotes take Cowherd the other day.... He says Winston is the best passing QB to come out since Luck.  He goes on to say that he only puts Luck as a hair better than Winston in that regard but the difference between Mariota and Luck is as wide as gulf.  Sure he doesn't know everything but Chris carter is nothing but comic relief.  Sure, doesn't mean anything but I'll put Cowherd Jamis love up against anything Chris Carter ever says. 

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      I grew up a Florida fan and go to Michigan.I want Jameis because he's built to better handle the beating that our offensive line no doubt will give him and he's going to be less receptive to the garbage coaching that we can expect under Lovie here.In addition, I believe Marcus needs to be placed in a more creative offense, which I don't ever see being a thing here. He is too good a kid to be thrown into a can't-win situation and that's exactly what he would be in here.

      Hiring a good modern day innovative OC would solve the Mariota problem.

      Lovie won't do that and if he does, will not let him flourish.

      Well, he did hire Tedford.

      LOL! Yeah. And he killed his playbook. Lovie wants a guy like Arroyo. A yes man who will do what he says.

      Maybe so, but the point is, he hired a guy who was supposed to be Mr Innovation. So I can see it happening again. Its not out of the question like some people here claim.As far as the Glazers go, I don't see them like a lot here do. Like hands off, don't get involved type owners. I would imagine they are as tired as we all are with a no offense team taking the field every Sunday.So, if that is the case, they will insist on a QB at #1. And they will also be VERY involved in the OC hire. They are not going to insist on the QB, then back off and not care who the OC is going to be. The two go hand in hand.  New QB, new OC.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 801

      Maturity is Jameis' biggest issue. If he had kept his nose clean, then he would be the obvious choice.The lack of maturity though, almost makes him a bigger risk than Mariota. Sure Mariota will have more to learn and the transition could take a little longer, but it's easy to predict that Mariota will probably be the one who is more focused on continuous improvement in the pros. That factor makes Mariota look like the better overall prospect when thinking past their first 2-3 seasons.

      +1 And when you're picking as high as we are in the next draft we have forecast 2-3 seasons not just immediate impact but potential down the road.

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      If its such a pro ready offense , why did Manuel, Ponder , and Jamarcus Russell (all 1st rounders) all look so utterly UNREADY in the NFL ? Meanwhile Chip Kellys system is working in the NFL. Even for bums like Sanchez.Do explain how system is your deciding factor here. Lol

      I think it's funny that, apparently, a guy can learn a new system in college yet cannot ever learn any other system ever again.

      Seriously! It's hilarious how much this keeps coming up in regards to Mariota.

      Chris Carter brought up an interesting point this morning. He said, no college program runs a pro offense. EVERY QB has to learn the pro offense. No matter where you come from. There is no such thing as one QB being more ready for the NFL because his college offense was kinda/sorta like a NFL offense.  Its night and day.

      Chris Carter is just being his usual moron self and trying to be cute.  Ok yeah the NFL is more complicated thanks for that Chris.  If we're throwing out "Expert" quotes take Cowherd the other day.... He says Winston is the best passing QB to come out since Luck.  He goes on to say that he only puts Luck as a hair better than Winston in that regard but the difference between Mariota and Luck is as wide as gulf.  Sure he doesn't know everything but Chris carter is nothing but comic relief.  Sure, doesn't mean anything but I'll put Cowherd Jamis love up against anything Chris Carter ever says.

      Interesting, I learned something today. I didn't know Cowherd played 15 years in the NFL.  And was inducted in the NFL HOF.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5438

      I’m a fan of Cowherd and listen most days, but he also was slobbing all over Kap at the start of the year, saying that he was tougher to defend than even the Brees, Bradys, and Mannings of the NFL. 8 weeks later, he was doing a 180 on Kap. I’ll agree with Cowherd quite often, but the guy is not infallible. I’d lead towards the opinion from a HOFer who actually played the game when it comes to that take. I’ve heard Dilfer say something similar to Carter recently, and Dilfer is 3X the analyst than he was a QB.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 801

      Maturity is Jameis' biggest issue. If he had kept his nose clean, then he would be the obvious choice.The lack of maturity though, almost makes him a bigger risk than Mariota. Sure Mariota will have more to learn and the transition could take a little longer, but it's easy to predict that Mariota will probably be the one who is more focused on continuous improvement in the pros. That factor makes Mariota look like the better overall prospect when thinking past their first 2-3 seasons.

      Sure it's a big red flag but the upside with Winston is much higher than it is with Mariota.  I don't want to try to run some gimmick offense because of my QB.  I want to run Patriots/Broncos QB reliant offense with the big boys.  That's the upside of Winston.  He could be that good of a pocket passer.  Sure he could be a miss but so could Mariota and even if he looks good at first I can't help but think of teams figuring him out a la Colin Kapernick.  Give the a chance at the homerun every time.

      You never get that type of team if your QB you hope to rely on is a repeat offender of stupidity. You can't bank on Winston. That's why its dicey.And who says Mariota cant do those things and that his ceiling is not as high? He hasn't failed on anything he's been asked to do yet.

      ....because, he comes from a specialized collegiate spread offense. I mean, it's not like guys such as Drew Brees, Ben R, and Joe Flacco have come from those types of systems and had NFL success....Oh wait..

      Yeah - those QBs you mentioned played in read one or run offenses in college.  lol

      I'll be honest and admit that I didn't watch a ton of Miami OH, or Delaware football games but I do think both those guys were throwing the whole passing tree in college.  Now Brees I remember watching and he most definitely was.  Brees was a gunslinger and threw the ball all over the field at Purdue and this is exactly what I like about Winston.  Mariota is not a gunslinger.  The offense they run is way to dependent on short passing, homerun deep balls and QB runs.  To compare him with Brees at Purdue?  I'm not seeing it.

      Point is, those three came from spread offenses that did not closely resemble the standard pro-style offense. One of the major criticisms on here about Mariota is that he comes from a spread that gets guys wide open by design and he won't have that luxury in the NFL. The same applies criticism could have been applied to Brees, Flacco, and Roelthisberger. There also is no evidence to back up that Mariota doesn't throw the whole passing tree. That statement is more anecdotal than factual. Does Mariota pass as much as Brees did? No. I'm not comparing them as prospects, nor as passers. Mariota has the ability to throw every pass that Winston does, he just needs to prove that he can do it on a regular basis as opposed to just on occasion.

      Talk that sh*t Chace!

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 273

      I'm a fan of Cowherd and listen most days, but he also was slobbing all over Kap at the start of the year, saying that he was tougher to defend than even the Brees, Bradys, and Mannings of the NFL. 8 weeks later, he was doing a 180 on Kap. I'll agree with Cowherd quite often, but the guy is not infallible. I'd lead towards the opinion from a HOFer who actually played the game when it comes to that take. I've heard Dilfer say something similar, and Dilfer is 3X the analyst than he was a QB.

      Cmon guys. Chris Carter is just around for comic relief.  Just listen to the guy. He takes his job about as seriously as Warren Sapp does. 

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1507

      There is nothing to indicate that  Jameis Winston lacks a focus or drive to succeed when it comes to his athletic career. He’s a flourishing two-sport athlete. He's an idiot off the field on occassion but when it comes to the game, he's definitely a great prospect on all accounts.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1417

      Unless that came from the mouth of a former FSU player who played in the NFL, that statement will fall on deaf ears...

      It'll fall on deaf ears because it's garbage. Do QBs from a triple option team have the same degree of difficulty learning Pro offenses as QBs from a pro-esque college offense or is their learning curve a bit steeper?

      First, there haven't been any truly draftable prospects from a TO offense. The closest to come to that is Kap from Ault's pistol offense.Second. It is night and day. Winston and Mariota are going to have to put in the same amount of work to be successful in the NFL and both will have to work harder and harder and harder with each passing year.Now which one do you think has the maturity to strive for continuous improvement at the NFL level?

      Everything you said didn't have anything to do with Carters quote or my response other than its night and day, which it very well could be.  But if it's ALL the same then a TO QB shouldn't have any lesser a learning curve than any other QB. Would anyone stand by that statement? And to answer your question, I have no idea which one would strive to be greater. I know Mariota has a screw up game every year that would normally knock his top 3 ranked team out of a championship. And I know Winston does not have a single one in 2 years.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 517

    • Anonymous

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      Regardless of the two QBs, that’s a really cool article

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5572

      http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/82352/remembering-the-pick-players-whove-intercepted-marcus-mariota-reflect

      Good stuff. Things like this are why I'm currently leaning towards Mariota. We'll see where I end up when the draft gets here.The lack of evidence in the sexual assault case makes me feel a lot better about Winston. Now it's just about analyzing work ethic. I want to see who comes to this game between them as the better prepared quarterback.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Unless that came from the mouth of a former FSU player who played in the NFL, that statement will fall on deaf ears...

      It'll fall on deaf ears because it's garbage. Do QBs from a triple option team have the same degree of difficulty learning Pro offenses as QBs from a pro-esque college offense or is their learning curve a bit steeper?

      First, there haven't been any truly draftable prospects from a TO offense. The closest to come to that is Kap from Ault's pistol offense.Second. It is night and day. Winston and Mariota are going to have to put in the same amount of work to be successful in the NFL and both will have to work harder and harder and harder with each passing year.Now which one do you think has the maturity to strive for continuous improvement at the NFL level?

      Everything you said didn't have anything to do with Carters quote or my response other than its night and day, which it very well could be.  But if it's ALL the same then a TO QB shouldn't have any lesser a learning curve than any other QB. Would anyone stand by that statement? And to answer your question, I have no idea which one would strive to be greater. I know Mariota has a screw up game every year that would normally knock his top 3 ranked team out of a championship. And I know Winston does not have a single one in 2 years.

      To the bold, yes it was addressed."Second. It is night and day. Winston and Mariota are going to have to put in the same amount of work to be successful in the NFL and both will have to work harder and harder and harder with each passing year."The TO option offense is a rarity and an outlier in CFB. Most teams are running a form of the spread offense, or an offense that is more traditional(pro-esque). It's pretty clear that Carter is talking about the comparison between these two offenses. The offenses like the pistol and triple option are so rare in college football that they aren't going to be factored into that sort of conversation.As far as screw up games, Winston was bailed out multiple times by the supreme talent that is on that roster. FSU is going to have at least 11-12 players drafted in the first 4 rounds of this year's draft. That's unheard of. If Winston had the same sort of talent on that Oregon roster, it would be safe to say that Oregon very would could have avoided those 2-3 losses. 

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1417

      The point you’re unwilling to concede is that his blanket statement is obviously false. Players from different systems have different degrees of learning more complicated/different NFL systems. Now it’s just figuring out how big that degree of difficulty is. I can’t because I am not coaching players from all sorts of systems. I don’t know if the two systems in question have a different degree of difficulty but I do know all systems are not the same.It's hardly related to the discussion but I just wanted to point out that that quote is garbage.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      The point you're unwilling to concede is that his blanket statement is obviously false. Players from different systems have different degrees of learning more complicated/different NFL systems. Now it's just figuring out how big that degree of difficulty is. I can't because I am not coaching players from all sorts of systems. I don't know if the two systems in question have a different degree of difficulty but I do know all systems are not the same.It's hardly related to the discussion but I just wanted to point out that that quote is garbage.

      It isn't false.In relation to what they will have to learn in the NFL, what Carter is essentially saying is that in terms of comparing college to pros, the pros are lightyears ahead.To put it in different terms....Let's say next year Luck has fully adapted and has full understanding. He is at a 10 out of 10.Coming out of college Mariota is currently at a 2 out of 10 and Winston is at a 2.5 out of 10. Yes, Winston plays in a more traditional style of offense and has a slight advantage in terms of relatability, but the gulf of differences between current collegiate QBs and QBs in the NFL is so large, it makes the gap between two prospects like Mariota and Winston look non-existent.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 273

      The point you're unwilling to concede is that his blanket statement is obviously false. Players from different systems have different degrees of learning more complicated/different NFL systems. Now it's just figuring out how big that degree of difficulty is. I can't because I am not coaching players from all sorts of systems. I don't know if the two systems in question have a different degree of difficulty but I do know all systems are not the same.It's hardly related to the discussion but I just wanted to point out that that quote is garbage.

      It isn't false.In relation to what they will have to learn in the NFL, what Carter is essentially saying is that in terms of comparing college to pros, the pros are lightyears ahead.To put it in different terms....Let's say next year Luck has fully adapted and has full understanding. He is at a 10 out of 10.Coming out of college Mariota is currently at a 2 out of 10 and Winston is at a 2.5 out of 10. Yes, Winston plays in a more traditional style of offense and has a slight advantage in terms of relatability, but the gulf of differences between current collegiate QBs and QBs in the NFL is so large, it makes the gap between two prospects like Mariota and Winston look non-existent.

      Whatever Chase.  You get that kind of serious statistical breakdown out of some offhanded goofy comments by a guy who hasn't had a serious thing to add to any football conversation in his life.  And worse yet you take it seriously.  Mariota is a 2 and Jamis is a 2.5?  whatever.  Just watch the Rose Bowl and pay attention to downfield passing.  You won't be able to miss it when both guys are on the same field.  night and day.Edit: And I'm not saying FSU will win.  I'm saying you'll see which guy is able to run a pro style offense.  I don't want to install Chip Kelly's offense because we draft Mariota.  That stuff is nothing but a fad anyway. 

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      The point you're unwilling to concede is that his blanket statement is obviously false. Players from different systems have different degrees of learning more complicated/different NFL systems. Now it's just figuring out how big that degree of difficulty is. I can't because I am not coaching players from all sorts of systems. I don't know if the two systems in question have a different degree of difficulty but I do know all systems are not the same.It's hardly related to the discussion but I just wanted to point out that that quote is garbage.

      It isn't false.In relation to what they will have to learn in the NFL, what Carter is essentially saying is that in terms of comparing college to pros, the pros are lightyears ahead.To put it in different terms....Let's say next year Luck has fully adapted and has full understanding. He is at a 10 out of 10.Coming out of college Mariota is currently at a 2 out of 10 and Winston is at a 2.5 out of 10. Yes, Winston plays in a more traditional style of offense and has a slight advantage in terms of relatability, but the gulf of differences between current collegiate QBs and QBs in the NFL is so large, it makes the gap between two prospects like Mariota and Winston look non-existent.

      Whatever Chase.  You get that kind of serious statistical breakdown out of some offhanded goofy comments by a guy who hasn't had a serious thing to add to any football conversation in his life.  And worse yet you take it seriously.  Mariota is a 2 and Jamis is a 2.5?  whatever.  Just watch the Rose Bowl and pay attention to downfield passing.  You won't be able to miss it when both guys are on the same field.  night and day.Edit: And I'm not saying FSU will win.  I'm saying you'll see which guy is able to run a pro style offense.  I don't want to install Chip Kelly's offense because we draft Mariota.  That stuff is nothing but a fad anyway.

      This is so true.  Kelly himself even recognizes this and is trying to adjust.  I'll say it again.  If you can't throw darts after making your reads in a sloppy pocket, your time in the NFL will be less than dazzling and probably short lived, and that will never change.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      The point you're unwilling to concede is that his blanket statement is obviously false. Players from different systems have different degrees of learning more complicated/different NFL systems. Now it's just figuring out how big that degree of difficulty is. I can't because I am not coaching players from all sorts of systems. I don't know if the two systems in question have a different degree of difficulty but I do know all systems are not the same.It's hardly related to the discussion but I just wanted to point out that that quote is garbage.

      It isn't false.In relation to what they will have to learn in the NFL, what Carter is essentially saying is that in terms of comparing college to pros, the pros are lightyears ahead.To put it in different terms....Let's say next year Luck has fully adapted and has full understanding. He is at a 10 out of 10.Coming out of college Mariota is currently at a 2 out of 10 and Winston is at a 2.5 out of 10. Yes, Winston plays in a more traditional style of offense and has a slight advantage in terms of relatability, but the gulf of differences between current collegiate QBs and QBs in the NFL is so large, it makes the gap between two prospects like Mariota and Winston look non-existent.

      Whatever Chase.  You get that kind of serious statistical breakdown out of some offhanded goofy comments by a guy who hasn't had a serious thing to add to any football conversation in his life.  And worse yet you take it seriously.  Mariota is a 2 and Jamis is a 2.5?  whatever.  Just watch the Rose Bowl and pay attention to downfield passing.  You won't be able to miss it when both guys are on the same field.  night and day.Edit: And I'm not saying FSU will win.  I'm saying you'll see which guy is able to run a pro style offense.  I don't want to install Chip Kelly's offense because we draft Mariota.  That stuff is nothing but a fad anyway.

      You can say "whatever" as many times as you want, but both Winston and Mariota have a long ways to go in their development, regardless of which former NFLer is saying it...Carter, Dilfer, Steve Young, etc. Ok fine, Winston is 2.75 and Mariota is 2.0.I'm not an advocate of installing a Chip Kelly type of offense, unless it's Chip Kelly himself running it. I hope we get a good offensive mind who adjusts playcalls to who ever we draft. I have no loyalties to any school in FL, so I'll take whatever QB we can get. Both have really good skills that will translate nicely to the NFL and both have the ability to make all the throws.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      Unless that came from the mouth of a former FSU player who played in the NFL, that statement will fall on deaf ears...

      It'll fall on deaf ears because it's garbage. Do QBs from a triple option team have the same degree of difficulty learning Pro offenses as QBs from a pro-esque college offense or is their learning curve a bit steeper?

      First, there haven't been any truly draftable prospects from a TO offense. The closest to come to that is Kap from Ault's pistol offense.Second. It is night and day. Winston and Mariota are going to have to put in the same amount of work to be successful in the NFL and both will have to work harder and harder and harder with each passing year.Now which one do you think has the maturity to strive for continuous improvement at the NFL level?

      You tell em

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/82352/remembering-the-pick-players-whove-intercepted-marcus-mariota-reflect

      Now lets have the players that intercepted Winston reflect. I'm sure there is a tour bus they use to round those guys up and the interviewer better pack a lunch.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5438

      http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/82352/remembering-the-pick-players-whove-intercepted-marcus-mariota-reflect

      Now lets have the players that intercepted Winston reflect. I'm sure there is a tour bus they use to round those guys up and the interviewer better pack a lunch.

      It doesn't matter because apparently Winston can throw the entire route tree while Mariota supposedly can't. Lol.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/82352/remembering-the-pick-players-whove-intercepted-marcus-mariota-reflect

      Now lets have the players that intercepted Winston reflect. I'm sure there is a tour bus they use to round those guys up and the interviewer better pack a lunch.

      It doesn't matter because apparently Winston can throw the entire route tree while Mariota supposedly can't. Lol.

      So i heard lol

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 655

      Chance:I tend to agree with you.  It is not who is best today, but who will be best in 3 yrs.  That is the true skill in drafting.Regardless who is best right now, it comes down to whom can best bridge the gap between college and pro football.And the gap between college and pro ball is much greater than the gap between the abilities of Mariota and Winston right now.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      I can throw the entire route tree to the wrong team also. Where is my love ??

    • Anonymous

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      I can throw the entire route tree to the wrong team also. Where is my love ??

      Well were you on a good team but got all the credit yourself for winning every game. I heard it helps your draft stock.

    • Anonymous

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      This is definitely going to be a long off-season.

    • Anonymous

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      This is definitely going to be a long off-season.

      its going to be a fun and interesting and exciting offseason.  The actual season is what was long.

    • Marcia

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      Post count: 5337

      This is definitely going to be a long off-season.

      Out of it the very second McCown was named the starter.  I cannot remember a longer regular season.  Like standing in quicksand waiting for the ultimate demise.

    • Anonymous

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      I can throw the entire route tree to the wrong team also. Where is my love ??

      Well were you on a good team but got all the credit yourself for winning every game. I heard it helps your draft stock.

      Yes. I can handoff to Cook all 2nd half to bail me out of my piss poor 1st halves also .I'm the best prospect since Luck.

    • Anonymous

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      I can throw the entire route tree to the wrong team also. Where is my love ??

      Well were you on a good team but got all the credit yourself for winning every game. I heard it helps your draft stock.

      Yes. I can handoff to Cook all 2nd half to bail me out of my piss poor 1st halves also .I'm the best prospect since Luck.

      What about accountability? You need to have none. Can you selfishly create adversity for you and your team overcome?

    • Anonymous

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      A few chums get together and have a little party. You’re right youngone, it was Winston that inherited a team that finished the prior season at #4 and 2 seasons from a national ship appearance and managed to never get back to the title game. While Mariota inherited a team that ended 8/10 and hadn’t been to a title game in 14 years.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      I can throw the entire route tree to the wrong team also. Where is my love ??

      Well were you on a good team but got all the credit yourself for winning every game. I heard it helps your draft stock.

      Yes. I can handoff to Cook all 2nd half to bail me out of my piss poor 1st halves also .I'm the best prospect since Luck.

      What about accountability? You need to have none. Can you selfishly create adversity for you and your team overcome?

      Absolutely . As long as I can stand on the sidelines afterwards in street clothes and act as obnoxious as humanly possible.

    • Anonymous

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      Oregon recruiting classes per Rivals: 2010 – 13 2011 – 9 2012 -16.They certainly weren't lacking talent.

    • Anonymous

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      A few chums get together and have a little party. You're right youngone, it was Winston that inherited a team that finished the prior season at #4 and 2 seasons from a national ship appearance and managed to never get back to the title game. While Mariota inherited a team that ended 8/10 and hadn't been to a title game in 14 years.

      That all would mean something if both the QBs played 1 vs 11... if Oregon had a team full of Mariota's they would have won a title or two... if FSU had a team full of Winstons they would have won a national title and a record amount of frequent flyer miles at a police station.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      I can throw the entire route tree to the wrong team also. Where is my love ??

      Well were you on a good team but got all the credit yourself for winning every game. I heard it helps your draft stock.

      Yes. I can handoff to Cook all 2nd half to bail me out of my piss poor 1st halves also .I'm the best prospect since Luck.

      What about accountability? You need to have none. Can you selfishly create adversity for you and your team overcome?

      Absolutely . As long as I can stand on the sidelines afterwards in street clothes and act as obnoxious as humanly possible.

      You sound like a winner.. Do you have a problem with paying for shlt?

    • Anonymous

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      I’m not sure which of the two I’d take, I think, Winston. I have a suspicion that many people wanting Mariota really want the scheme that allows for such a clean pocket, tons of time to throw, big rushing lanes, and wide open wide receivers, and less about qb. If you draft Mariota you get the player, and then you gotta start constructing that offense that he developed with. (What we have to offer now is opposite of what Mariota gets: time to throw, rushing lanes, wide open receivers..)

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1507

      I can throw the entire route tree to the wrong team also. Where is my love ??

      Well were you on a good team but got all the credit yourself for winning every game. I heard it helps your draft stock.

      Yes. I can handoff to Cook all 2nd half to bail me out of my piss poor 1st halves also .I'm the best prospect since Luck.

      What about accountability? You need to have none. Can you selfishly create adversity for you and your team overcome?

      Absolutely . As long as I can stand on the sidelines afterwards in street clothes and act as obnoxious as humanly possible.

      You sound like a winner.. Do you have a problem with paying for shlt?

      Minor citation >>>> major NCAA scandal fwiw

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      I can throw the entire route tree to the wrong team also. Where is my love ??

      Well were you on a good team but got all the credit yourself for winning every game. I heard it helps your draft stock.

      Yes. I can handoff to Cook all 2nd half to bail me out of my piss poor 1st halves also .I'm the best prospect since Luck.

      What about accountability? You need to have none. Can you selfishly create adversity for you and your team overcome?

      Absolutely . As long as I can stand on the sidelines afterwards in street clothes and act as obnoxious as humanly possible.

      You sound like a winner.. Do you have a problem with paying for shlt?

      Minor citation >>>> major NCAA scandal fwiw

      Stealing is stealing... dumbasses are going to do dumbass things.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 333

      This is definitely going to be a long off-season.

      Out of it the very second McCown was named the starter.  I cannot remember a longer regular season.  Like standing in quicksand waiting for the ultimate demise.

      Oh, I remember a few pretty LONG regular seasons...a decade's worth:1983: 2-141984: 6-101985: 2-141986: 2-141987: 4-111988: 5-111989: 5-111990: 6-101991: 3-131992: 5-111993: 5-111994: 6-10 :'( >:(

    • Anonymous

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      Mariota inherited a team that was consistently achieving and had them underachieving. Winston took a consistent underachiever and fully achieved.

    • Anonymous

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      Mariota inherited a team that was consistently achieving and had them underachieving. Winston took a consistent underachiever and fully achieved.

      All by himself huh?And how many of the great QBs in the league right now took their college team and "fully achieved"?

    • Anonymous

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      Probably the same amount that inherited a team that finished 8 11 3 and 4 the last 4 years before they took over.

    • Anonymous

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      Chance:I tend to agree with you.  It is not who is best today, but who will be best in 3 yrs.  That is the true skill in drafting.Regardless who is best right now, it comes down to whom can best bridge the gap between college and pro football.And the gap between college and pro ball is much greater than the gap between the abilities of Mariota and Winston right now.

      Yup.

    • Anonymous

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      Probably the same amount that inherited a team that finished 8 11 3 and 4 the last 4 years before they took over.

      His team rankings has what to do with him as a prospect?

    • Anonymous

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      I dunno, you asked the question.

    • Anonymous

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      You also mentioned that Winston was on a good team and got all the credit, implying he is JAG. I’m merely pointing out that Mariota inherited a really good team and had received a ton of credit.

    • Anonymous

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      I dunno, you asked the question.

      It has nothing to do with him as prospect and wouldn't justify him as an underachiever either.

    • Anonymous

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      You also mentioned that Winston was on a good team and got all the credit, implying he is JAG. I'm merely pointing out that Mariota inherited a really good team and had received a ton of credit.

      I didnt imply that. I was talking about this perception that he does it all for them.

    • Marcia

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      Chance:I tend to agree with you.  It is not who is best today, but who will be best in 3 yrs.  That is the true skill in drafting.Regardless who is best right now, it comes down to whom can best bridge the gap between college and pro football.And the gap between college and pro ball is much greater than the gap between the abilities of Mariota and Winston right now.

      Winston's skill set is not something that comes around very often.  Mariota seems to be coming around every year now.  The time leading up to the combine, starting with the game vs. the Seminoles on the first will show the difference between the two.  Cleveland is the kind of franchise that gets the wool pulled over their eyes.  The Redskins are no strangers to getting conned.  The Raiders let jersey sales get in the way of real long term success.  Let's hope the Buc's brass doesn't fall pray to the great marketing that Nike pulls off away from their sports merchandising.  They seem to be convincing otherwise reasonably intelligent football minds that Mariota is anything other than a 3rd or 4th round project QB. 

    • Anonymous

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      Chance:I tend to agree with you.  It is not who is best today, but who will be best in 3 yrs.  That is the true skill in drafting.Regardless who is best right now, it comes down to whom can best bridge the gap between college and pro football.And the gap between college and pro ball is much greater than the gap between the abilities of Mariota and Winston right now.

      Winston's skill set is not something that comes around very often.  Mariota seems to be coming around every year now.  The time leading up to the combine, starting with the game vs. the Seminoles on the first will show the difference between the two.  Cleveland is the kind of franchise that gets the wool pulled over their eyes.  The Redskins are no strangers to getting conned.  The Raiders let jersey sales get in the way of real long term success.  Let's hope the Buc's brass doesn't fall pray to the great marketing that Nike pulls off away from their sports merchandising.  They seem to be convincing otherwise reasonably intelligent football minds that Mariota is anything other than a 3rd or 4th round project QB.

      Oh lord

    • Anonymous

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      You also mentioned that Winston was on a good team and got all the credit, implying he is JAG. I'm merely pointing out that Mariota inherited a really good team and had received a ton of credit.

      I didnt imply that. I was talking about this perception that he does it all for them.

      if that's not what you were implying then I apologize. Sounded like you were trying to make Winston into a Dorsey, Weinke type guy.

    • Anonymous

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      You also mentioned that Winston was on a good team and got all the credit, implying he is JAG. I'm merely pointing out that Mariota inherited a really good team and had received a ton of credit.

      I didnt imply that. I was talking about this perception that he does it all for them.

      if that's not what you were implying then I apologize. Sounded like you were trying to make Winston into a Dorsey, Weinke type guy.

      Not at all. He's a great talent and wouldn't mind if we picked him but I just don't like him.

    • Anonymous

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      3rd or 4th round. Lol. If Winston weren’t in this draft, I doubt 10lb would say this.

    • Anonymous

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      Why does one have to put down one qb to support the other? This shouldn’t be personal. I don’t care who we pick as long as it is the right one.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1417

      Why does one have to put down one qb to support the other? This shouldn't be personal. I don't care who we pick as long as it is the right one.

      haha has anything on this board not been personal?

    • Marcia

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      3rd or 4th round. Lol. If Winston weren't in this draft, I doubt 10lb would say this.

      There are so many things that need to be considered before pulling the trigger on someone like Mariota.  He's far too big a risk to take in the first round.  !st round expectations on this guy are doing him a disservice I'm afraid.  He needs seasons of time to get ready. It's simply not the case with Winston. 

    • Anonymous

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      Both Mariota and Winston are risky but you have to take a calculated risk that either one will translate to the pro game.  I haven’t seen anything from either one that says they can not play the pro game.The NFL has changed the last 20 years, so I welcome either one with open arms.

    • Anonymous

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      3rd or 4th round. Lol. If Winston weren't in this draft, I doubt 10lb would say this.

      There are so many things that need to be considered before pulling the trigger on someone like Mariota.  He's far too big a risk to take in the first round.  !st round expectations on this guy are doing him a disservice I'm afraid.  He needs seasons of time to get ready. It's simply not the case with Winston.

      They both have risk you moron.

    • Anonymous

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      Why does one have to put down one qb to support the other? This shouldn't be personal. I don't care who we pick as long as it is the right one.

      Exactly.These threads are impossible to read.  It's just Rod, YoungOne, and Delirious Jason attacking each other.  I'm pretty sure none of them really understand the flaws and strengths with each QB or how to evaluate them.

    • Marcia

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      3rd or 4th round. Lol. If Winston weren't in this draft, I doubt 10lb would say this.

      There are so many things that need to be considered before pulling the trigger on someone like Mariota.  He's far too big a risk to take in the first round.  !st round expectations on this guy are doing him a disservice I'm afraid.  He needs seasons of time to get ready. It's simply not the case with Winston.

      They both have risk you moron.

      Not near the same level.  If you think otherwise you are lying to yourself. Winston is as close to being pro ready as any QB since Luck. You watch how the analysts narrative changes over the next two months.  The same idiots that have been killing Winston for two years will be all about him.

    • install

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      Mariota  is the total package…Aaron Rodgers type .Some GMs wouldn't take Winston at all in the 1st rd and they say he has serious issues.Can you imagine Winston with millions of dollars ? Even if he didn't do anything I don't know if he is smart enough not to put himself in a bad position...it's a shame because the dude has all the talent in the world...Another thought is what if Winston goes and plays baseball and you just wasted a #1pick

    • Anonymous

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      Why does one have to put down one qb to support the other? This shouldn't be personal. I don't care who we pick as long as it is the right one.

      Exactly.These threads are impossible to read.  It's just Rod, YoungOne, and Delirious Jason attacking each other.  I'm pretty sure none of them really understand the flaws and strengths with each QB or how to evaluate them.

      ...and how would you know that if it was impossible for you to read , dimwit ?

    • Anonymous

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      Why does one have to put down one qb to support the other? This shouldn't be personal. I don't care who we pick as long as it is the right one.

      Yup. Noles fans seem to think that ragging on Mariota makes Winston look better. No, they both look like studs.

    • hstork

      Participant
      Post count: 3

      Mariota  is the total package...Aaron Rodgers type .Some GMs wouldn't take Winston at all in the 1st rd and they say he has serious issues.Can you imagine Winston with millions of dollars ? Even if he didn't do anything I don't know if he is smart enough not to put himself in a bad position...it's a shame because the dude has all the talent in the world...Another thought is what if Winston goes and plays baseball and you just wasted a #1pick

      This is my concern with Winston as well. He has some character concerns you just can't ignore. Mariota, from what i've read, is the more accurate passer, has better ball placement, and mechanics. I could be wrong since i don't watch college football, but those are the things im looking for from a quarterback. Seems Mariota is above the rest in this class as far as those things go.Wondering though, what about Connor Cook? A lot of people seem to like him more than Winston or Mariota. If we could trade back sounds like a good prospect.

    • Anonymous

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      Conner Cook is going back to school.

    • install

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      Post count: 1281

      Mariota  is the total package...Aaron Rodgers type .Some GMs wouldn't take Winston at all in the 1st rd and they say he has serious issues.Can you imagine Winston with millions of dollars ? Even if he didn't do anything I don't know if he is smart enough not to put himself in a bad position...it's a shame because the dude has all the talent in the world...Another thought is what if Winston goes and plays baseball and you just wasted a #1pick

      This is my concern with Winston as well. He has some character concerns you just can't ignore. Mariota, from what i've read, is the more accurate passer, has better ball placement, and mechanics. I could be wrong since i don't watch college football, but those are the things im looking for from a quarterback. Seems Mariota is above the rest in this class as far as those things go.Wondering though, what about Connor Cook? A lot of people seem to like him more than Winston or Mariota. If we could trade back sounds like a good prospect.

      I think Cook has decided to stay in school another year

    • Marcia

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      Post count: 5337

      Mariota  is the total package...Aaron Rodgers type .Some GMs wouldn't take Winston at all in the 1st rd and they say he has serious issues.Can you imagine Winston with millions of dollars ? Even if he didn't do anything I don't know if he is smart enough not to put himself in a bad position...it's a shame because the dude has all the talent in the world...Another thought is what if Winston goes and plays baseball and you just wasted a #1pick

      This is my concern with Winston as well. He has some character concerns you just can't ignore. Mariota, from what i've read, is the more accurate passer, has better ball placement, and mechanics. I could be wrong since i don't watch college football, but those are the things im looking for from a quarterback. Seems Mariota is above the rest in this class as far as those things go.Wondering though, what about Connor Cook? A lot of people seem to like him more than Winston or Mariota. If we could trade back sounds like a good prospect.

      I think Cook has decided to stay in school another year

      Cook has some great qualities - his completion percentage vs. Big 10 secondaries is not one of them.

    • Anonymous

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      Yup, Cook has stated multiple times that he has unfinished business in East Lansing.

    • billym

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      I'm a fan of Cowherd and listen most days, but he also was slobbing all over Kap at the start of the year, saying that he was tougher to defend than even the Brees, Bradys, and Mannings of the NFL. 8 weeks later, he was doing a 180 on Kap. I'll agree with Cowherd quite often, but the guy is not infallible. I'd lead towards the opinion from a HOFer who actually played the game when it comes to that take. I've heard Dilfer say something similar, and Dilfer is 3X the analyst than he was a QB.

      Cmon guys. Chris Carter is just around for comic relief.  Just listen to the guy. He takes his job about as seriously as Warren Sapp does.

      The guys who played with/against him would disagree. One of the most intense players ever.I don't get the comedian comment. I don't find him funny at all. But thats just me.

    • Anonymous

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      It was a lame attempt to devalue Carter’s opinion to to make his take more credible. Carter wasn't attempting to be humorous. He was giving his opinion on QBs coming in, and it wasn't even that outlandish of a penalty. Hell, I'd imagine that most former players at all positions would say that there are many huge differences between the college and pro games, and even more so for the QB position. The fact is that Carter is a HOF player who has actually stepped on the field and still gets a closer look at the NFL than any of us get to see. It's okay, if you disagree with his take, but to try and play him off to be a clown who is just throwing sh*t at the wall for reactions...no. He might have fun on the set of Monday Night Countdown with Keyshawn and TJ, but he is pretty straight forward when he is Mike and Mike and when he gives his analyst POV on various radio programs.

    • billym

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      It was a lame attempt to devalue Carter's opinion to to make his take more credible. Carter wasn't attempting to be humorous. He was giving his opinion on QBs coming in, and it wasn't even that outlandish of a penalty. Hell, I'd imagine that most former players at all positions would say that there are many huge differences between the college and pro games, and even more so for the QB position. The fact is that Carter is a HOF player who has actually stepped on the field and still gets a closer look at the NFL than any of us get to see. It's okay, if you disagree with his take, but to try and play him off to be a clown who is just throwing sh*t at the wall for reactions...no. He might have fun on the set of Monday Night Countdown with Keyshawn and TJ, but he is pretty straight forward when he is Mike and Mike and when he gives his analyst POV on various radio programs.

      Ya I believe it was the M+M show he was guest hosting Monday morning when I heard his take on college QB's vs. Pro QB's.  I couldn't recall which show it was, all the regulars are off on vacation, your man Cowherd included. And just for the record, I agree with him 100%. 

    • Anonymous

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      OOOOOOOWEEEEEE

    • Anonymous

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      OOOOOOOWEEEEEE

      tight window, great timing, quick release, great ball placement.... the young man is a baller.

    • Anonymous

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      OOOOOOOWEEEEEE

      tight window, great timing, quick release, great ball placement.... the young man is a baller.

      He also fakes the screen to freeze the safety. Great play.Also, the LT gets completely Gilkey-ed.

    • billym

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      Post count: 3348

      OOOOOOOWEEEEEE

      tight window, great timing, quick release, great ball placement.... the young man is a baller.

      Mike and Vincent would love that.

    • Anonymous

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      The Rose Bowl will go a long way towards settling this debate.  Can’t wait.

    • Anonymous

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      It’s fun to debate this on a message board, but the truth is that we have a fraction of the information that the teams have available to make their decision.  We're never going to sit down with either QB and dissect film or watch them work on a chalkboard.  We're never going to talk to their head coaches from college, high school, and pop warner.  We're never going to investigate Winston's relationships with his family and friends, and determine if they are/will continue to be a bad influence.  I like Mariota, but in interviews he just doesn't seem that bright.  How much of that is social awkwardness, and how does he communicate with teammates and coaches behind closed doors?Even after the draft people are going to second guess whomever the team selects, but we as casual fans will never know how they came to their decision.

    • Marcia

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      The problem with Bucs fans is a lot of their partialness to Mariota is not pro Mariota, it’s anti-Jameis.  Warren Sapp taught me a long time ago that as a fan base we are much better served to let our college hatred not get  in the way of our pro desire for success.  I dont know that Mariota is dumb but he comes across as shy and emotional.  We need a leader, a leader that can play the position and own the franchise from a personality standpoint.

    • Anonymous

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      I’ve been watching a lot of games from both guys and I’m pretty well convinced that Winston will go #1. I don’t think the off-the-field aspect is serious enough to hurt his stock, to pass up on a guy that is just so advanced in his game and has proven it on the field. He’s considerably better than Cam and Bortles were when they came out.Every team will go much further in depth into their background and character and unless they come away with some serious question marks, he's going first.

    • Anonymous

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      I’m not asking this rhetorically or sarcastically but in what ways does Mariota differ from RGIII on the field?

    • Anonymous

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      From what I’ve seen, RGIII and Mariota have very similar games so is the hope that Mariota will prove to be more durable and far more committed in the film room?

    • Anonymous

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      The Rose Bowl will go a long way towards settling this debate.  Can't wait.

      Not necessarily . There's a good chance they both play a great game.Besides , you should never make a scouting decision off of one game anyway .

    • Anonymous

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      From what I've seen, RGIII and Mariota have very similar games so is the hope that Mariota will prove to be more durable and far more committed in the film room?

      They are similar athletes sure , but Mariota is a much more intelligent player . A much more coachable personality also. I also think Mariota is more consistently accurate , whereas RGIII is more streaky.Chip Kelly has said Mariota is the best player he's ever coached , and that includes on the pro level. The kid is going to be good.

    • Anonymous

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      From what I've seen, RGIII and Mariota have very similar games so is the hope that Mariota will prove to be more durable and far more committed in the film room?

      They are similar athletes sure , but Mariota is a much more intelligent player . A much more coachable personality also. I also think Mariota is more consistently accurate , whereas RGIII is more streaky.Chip Kelly has said Mariota is the best player he's ever coached , and that includes on the pro level. The kid is going to be good.

      Well said.

    • Marcia

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      Post count: 5337

      From what I've seen, RGIII and Mariota have very similar games so is the hope that Mariota will prove to be more durable and far more committed in the film room?

      They are similar athletes sure , but Mariota is a much more intelligent player . A much more coachable personality also. I also think Mariota is more consistently accurate , whereas RGIII is more streaky.Chip Kelly has said Mariota is the best player he's ever coached , and that includes on the pro level. The kid is going to be good.

      Well said.

      Yeah, he liked him so much, he hauled ass for a marginal pro job in shitty Philadelphia.  LOL out those that think he's like Mariota.

    • Anonymous

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      I’ve come to despise Jameis Winston.  He’s been coddled, enabled, and IMO, he’s a petulant punk who’s never had to answer for his actions. In all honesty, it would be hard for me to accept this guy as the “face of the franchise” of the Bucs. I do NOT think he’s is innocent for the rape charge at FSU. BUT, here comes the hard part.  I wasnt sure who was the better QB was between Winston and Mariotta, but I damn sure knew who I didnt want here in Tampa Bay….until I started watching the tape of both QB’s.  As much as I didnt want to see it, its pretty clear who the better prospect is, as far as a “franchise QB”.  Winston is the prototypical NFL QB.  This is a VERY difficult dilemma for a die-hard Buc fan.  I’ve made some big mistakes as a young kid, no violence or sexual assualts, but some mistakes none the less, and all I can hope is Winston has learned, but that’s my fear, is he hasnt been held accountable YET.  As much as I dont like to say it, Winston is the GUY on the field, BUT can you trust him?  This is a HUGE question?

    • Anonymous

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      I take it you watched the tape of last season , because if you watched this season’s tape , i find it hard imagining what you saw that impressed you so much. Hes been an average looking INT machine all year.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 6677

      From what I've seen, RGIII and Mariota have very similar games so is the hope that Mariota will prove to be more durable and far more committed in the film room?

      They are similar athletes sure , but Mariota is a much more intelligent player . A much more coachable personality also. I also think Mariota is more consistently accurate , whereas RGIII is more streaky.Chip Kelly has said Mariota is the best player he's ever coached , and that includes on the pro level. The kid is going to be good.

      Well said.

      Yeah, he liked him so much, he hauled ass for a marginal pro job in (censored)ty Philadelphia.  LOL out those that think he's like Mariota.

      Marginal? funny coming from a Buc fan.  first, its one of only 32.  Philly is a major city and the Eagles have a storied history and a big fanbase.  and he’s making $32 million or something like that.

    • Anonymous

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      I take it you watched the tape of last season , because if you watched this season's tape , i find it hard imagining what you saw that impressed you so much. Hes been an average looking INT machine all year.

      a fact some people seem to gloss over for some reason. I thought he amazing last season too.. this season dropped him a few notches IMO.

    • Anonymous

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      I feel like people just regurgitate opinions on here with no basis behind them.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      I feel like people just regurgitate opinions on here with no basis behind them.

      the red board.If you watched him this year,  I don't see this all world, unmatched work ethic, film studying, great at reading defenses, smartest QB I ever seen shlt. I see damn he has the tools and based on last year that guy has major potential.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1507

      I take it you watched the tape of last season , because if you watched this season's tape , i find it hard imagining what you saw that impressed you so much. Hes been an average looking INT machine all year.

      a fact some people seem to gloss over for some reason. I thought he amazing last season too.. this season dropped him a few notches IMO.

      This season was weird. Horrible first halves, and then Florida game aside, was lights out in second halves. Seemed to struggle a bit without Benjamin, who we have a near exact clone of in Evans here. I'm as pro-spread offense guy as you'll find but the evidence against the spread QBs is mounting, particularly with coaches that had success in the past and seemed deadset against adapting to the "now".I would put Lovie in that category. He would ruin whatever chance Mariota has in the NFL. Jameis might be able to play through Lovie ball a bit better.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      From what I've seen, RGIII and Mariota have very similar games so is the hope that Mariota will prove to be more durable and far more committed in the film room?

      They are similar athletes sure , but Mariota is a much more intelligent player . A much more coachable personality also. I also think Mariota is more consistently accurate , whereas RGIII is more streaky.Chip Kelly has said Mariota is the best player he's ever coached , and that includes on the pro level. The kid is going to be good.

      Well said.

      Yeah, he liked him so much, he hauled ass for a marginal pro job in (censored)ty Philadelphia.  LOL out those that think he's like Mariota.

      Marginal? funny coming from a Buc fan.  first, its one of only 32.  Philly is a major city and the Eagles have a storied history and a big fanbase.  and he's making $32 million or something like that.

      No rings.  It's a marginal franchise.  Very few are ringless. Philly has never really been close.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      3 championships before the SB era and two SB appearances. 

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      3 championships before the SB era and two SB appearances.

      If it didn't happen in my life time, its ancient history.  May Philly and the city always suffer in mediocrity with the Eagles.  Crappy fans that dont deserve eternity on the football field.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5572

      I want the guy who has put up these stats:CAREER STATS2014Completions: 254 Attempts: 372 Yards: 3783 Completion Percentage: 68.3 YPA: 10.17 TD: 38 INT: 2 QBR: 89.42013Completions: 245 Attempts: 386 Yards: 3665 Completion Percentage: 63.5 YPA: 9.50 TD: 31 INT: 4 QBR: 84.22012Completions: 230 Attempts: 336 Yards: 2677 Completion Percentage: 68.5 YPA: 7.97 TD: 32 INT: 6 QBR: 82.2

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      You mean the guy who got better every year? Sounds like a winner to me.

    • GARCIAFAN

      Participant
      Post count: 1002

      The problem with Bucs fans is a lot of their partialness to Mariota is not pro Mariota, it's anti-Jameis.

      I agree. The reputation that Winston has created for himself is not his fault. Nothing could ever be the fault of Lord Jameis. Therefore, there must be a problem with Buc fans. This logic is impeccable, do not bother to contest it.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      The problem with Bucs fans is a lot of their partialness to Mariota is not pro Mariota, it's anti-Jameis.

      I agree. The reputation that Winston has created for himself is not his fault. Nothing could ever be the fault of Lord Jameis. Therefore, there must be a problem with Buc fans. This logic is impeccable, do not bother to contest it.

      Pegged for posterity.  Let's see how their on the field talents play out in the big boy game and then revisit this discussion.  You must have not watched very much college football before this year.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      I want the guy who has put up these stats:CAREER STATS2014Completions: 254 Attempts: 372 Yards: 3783 Completion Percentage: 68.3 YPA: 10.17 TD: 38 INT: 2 QBR: 89.42013Completions: 245 Attempts: 386 Yards: 3665 Completion Percentage: 63.5 YPA: 9.50 TD: 31 INT: 4 QBR: 84.22012Completions: 230 Attempts: 336 Yards: 2677 Completion Percentage: 68.5 YPA: 7.97 TD: 32 INT: 6 QBR: 82.2

      Have you looked at other QB's #s in this system? Is Mariota unique?

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      I want the guy who has put up these stats:CAREER STATS2014Completions: 254 Attempts: 372 Yards: 3783 Completion Percentage: 68.3 YPA: 10.17 TD: 38 INT: 2 QBR: 89.42013Completions: 245 Attempts: 386 Yards: 3665 Completion Percentage: 63.5 YPA: 9.50 TD: 31 INT: 4 QBR: 84.22012Completions: 230 Attempts: 336 Yards: 2677 Completion Percentage: 68.5 YPA: 7.97 TD: 32 INT: 6 QBR: 82.2

      Have you looked at other QB's #s in this system? Is Mariota unique?

      I believe Joey Harrington put up similiar numbers at Oregon. And we all know how his pro career turned out.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5572

      I want the guy who has put up these stats:CAREER STATS2014Completions: 254 Attempts: 372 Yards: 3783 Completion Percentage: 68.3 YPA: 10.17 TD: 38 INT: 2 QBR: 89.42013Completions: 245 Attempts: 386 Yards: 3665 Completion Percentage: 63.5 YPA: 9.50 TD: 31 INT: 4 QBR: 84.22012Completions: 230 Attempts: 336 Yards: 2677 Completion Percentage: 68.5 YPA: 7.97 TD: 32 INT: 6 QBR: 82.2

      Have you looked at other QB's #s in this system? Is Mariota unique?

      I believe Joey Harrington put up similiar numbers at Oregon. And we all know how his pro career turned out.

      Well, let's see:Career Oregon Completions: 512 Attempts: 928 Completion Percentage: 55.2 Yards: 6911 YPA: 7.4 TD: 59 INT: 23Yeah, no.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      I want the guy who has put up these stats:CAREER STATS2014Completions: 254 Attempts: 372 Yards: 3783 Completion Percentage: 68.3 YPA: 10.17 TD: 38 INT: 2 QBR: 89.42013Completions: 245 Attempts: 386 Yards: 3665 Completion Percentage: 63.5 YPA: 9.50 TD: 31 INT: 4 QBR: 84.22012Completions: 230 Attempts: 336 Yards: 2677 Completion Percentage: 68.5 YPA: 7.97 TD: 32 INT: 6 QBR: 82.2

      Have you looked at other QB's #s in this system? Is Mariota unique?

      I believe Joey Harrington put up similiar numbers at Oregon. And we all know how his pro career turned out.

      Well, let's see:Career Oregon Completions: 512 Attempts: 928 Completion Percentage: 55.2 Yards: 6911 YPA: 7.4 TD: 59 INT: 23Yeah, no.

      Well  , you shut that down in a hurry , lol

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      I want the guy who has put up these stats:CAREER STATS2014Completions: 254 Attempts: 372 Yards: 3783 Completion Percentage: 68.3 YPA: 10.17 TD: 38 INT: 2 QBR: 89.42013Completions: 245 Attempts: 386 Yards: 3665 Completion Percentage: 63.5 YPA: 9.50 TD: 31 INT: 4 QBR: 84.22012Completions: 230 Attempts: 336 Yards: 2677 Completion Percentage: 68.5 YPA: 7.97 TD: 32 INT: 6 QBR: 82.2

      Have you looked at other QB's #s in this system? Is Mariota unique?

      I believe Joey Harrington put up similiar numbers at Oregon. And we all know how his pro career turned out.

      Well, let's see:Career Oregon Completions: 512 Attempts: 928 Completion Percentage: 55.2 Yards: 6911 YPA: 7.4 TD: 59 INT: 23Yeah, no.

      Joey Harrington.....25-3 Marcus Mariota......35-4

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      I want the guy who has put up these stats:CAREER STATS2014Completions: 254 Attempts: 372 Yards: 3783 Completion Percentage: 68.3 YPA: 10.17 TD: 38 INT: 2 QBR: 89.42013Completions: 245 Attempts: 386 Yards: 3665 Completion Percentage: 63.5 YPA: 9.50 TD: 31 INT: 4 QBR: 84.22012Completions: 230 Attempts: 336 Yards: 2677 Completion Percentage: 68.5 YPA: 7.97 TD: 32 INT: 6 QBR: 82.2

      Have you looked at other QB's #s in this system? Is Mariota unique?

      I believe Joey Harrington put up similiar numbers at Oregon. And we all know how his pro career turned out.

      Well, let's see:Career Oregon Completions: 512 Attempts: 928 Completion Percentage: 55.2 Yards: 6911 YPA: 7.4 TD: 59 INT: 23Yeah, no.

      Mariota will have no success as a pro for at least the first 2 seasons.  Can you wait that long?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1040

      I want the guy who has put up these stats:CAREER STATS2014Completions: 254 Attempts: 372 Yards: 3783 Completion Percentage: 68.3 YPA: 10.17 TD: 38 INT: 2 QBR: 89.42013Completions: 245 Attempts: 386 Yards: 3665 Completion Percentage: 63.5 YPA: 9.50 TD: 31 INT: 4 QBR: 84.22012Completions: 230 Attempts: 336 Yards: 2677 Completion Percentage: 68.5 YPA: 7.97 TD: 32 INT: 6 QBR: 82.2

      Have you looked at other QB's #s in this system? Is Mariota unique?

      I believe Joey Harrington put up similiar numbers at Oregon. And we all know how his pro career turned out.

      Well, let's see:Career Oregon Completions: 512 Attempts: 928 Completion Percentage: 55.2 Yards: 6911 YPA: 7.4 TD: 59 INT: 23Yeah, no.

      Mariota will have no success as a pro for at least the first 2 seasons.  Can you wait that long?

      Highly doubt that. I bet he's better than Jameis the first two years.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      I want the guy who has put up these stats:CAREER STATS2014Completions: 254 Attempts: 372 Yards: 3783 Completion Percentage: 68.3 YPA: 10.17 TD: 38 INT: 2 QBR: 89.42013Completions: 245 Attempts: 386 Yards: 3665 Completion Percentage: 63.5 YPA: 9.50 TD: 31 INT: 4 QBR: 84.22012Completions: 230 Attempts: 336 Yards: 2677 Completion Percentage: 68.5 YPA: 7.97 TD: 32 INT: 6 QBR: 82.2

      Have you looked at other QB's #s in this system? Is Mariota unique?

      I believe Joey Harrington put up similiar numbers at Oregon. And we all know how his pro career turned out.

      Well, let's see:Career Oregon Completions: 512 Attempts: 928 Completion Percentage: 55.2 Yards: 6911 YPA: 7.4 TD: 59 INT: 23Yeah, no.

      Mariota will have no success as a pro for at least the first 2 seasons.  Can you wait that long?

      Highly doubt that. I bet he's better than Jameis the first two years.

      What in God's name are you basing that on. Did all of the defenses in the pros just get super slow or something?  Mariota can't throw from a pro pocket. 

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Yeah, he liked him so much, he hauled ass for a marginal pro job in (censored)ty Philadelphia. 

      Well documented how much he hated him, right?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5572

      I want the guy who has put up these stats:CAREER STATS2014Completions: 254 Attempts: 372 Yards: 3783 Completion Percentage: 68.3 YPA: 10.17 TD: 38 INT: 2 QBR: 89.42013Completions: 245 Attempts: 386 Yards: 3665 Completion Percentage: 63.5 YPA: 9.50 TD: 31 INT: 4 QBR: 84.22012Completions: 230 Attempts: 336 Yards: 2677 Completion Percentage: 68.5 YPA: 7.97 TD: 32 INT: 6 QBR: 82.2

      Have you looked at other QB's #s in this system? Is Mariota unique?

      I believe Joey Harrington put up similiar numbers at Oregon. And we all know how his pro career turned out.

      Well, let's see:Career Oregon Completions: 512 Attempts: 928 Completion Percentage: 55.2 Yards: 6911 YPA: 7.4 TD: 59 INT: 23Yeah, no.

      Mariota will have no success as a pro for at least the first 2 seasons.  Can you wait that long?

      Highly doubt that. I bet he's better than Jameis the first two years.

      Probably not a person you should bother betting with.

    • Marcia

      Participant
      Post count: 5337

      Yeah, he liked him so much, he hauled ass for a marginal pro job in (censored)ty Philadelphia. 

      Well documented how much he hated him, right?

      Actions speak a lot louder than internet drivel.  He hated him.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      I want the guy who has put up these stats:CAREER STATS2014Completions: 254 Attempts: 372 Yards: 3783 Completion Percentage: 68.3 YPA: 10.17 TD: 38 INT: 2 QBR: 89.42013Completions: 245 Attempts: 386 Yards: 3665 Completion Percentage: 63.5 YPA: 9.50 TD: 31 INT: 4 QBR: 84.22012Completions: 230 Attempts: 336 Yards: 2677 Completion Percentage: 68.5 YPA: 7.97 TD: 32 INT: 6 QBR: 82.2

      Have you looked at other QB's #s in this system? Is Mariota unique?

      I believe Joey Harrington put up similiar numbers at Oregon. And we all know how his pro career turned out.

      Well, let's see:Career Oregon Completions: 512 Attempts: 928 Completion Percentage: 55.2 Yards: 6911 YPA: 7.4 TD: 59 INT: 23Yeah, no.

      Mariota will have no success as a pro for at least the first 2 seasons.  Can you wait that long?

      Highly doubt that. I bet he's better than Jameis the first two years.

      Probably not a person you should bother betting with.

      Lol.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1507

      Darron Thomas had similar stats in college. Think that’s the better statistical comp.I just don't get why people think at all Lovie Smith will be able to properly utilize him. To me, though I have other questions, my deal breaker is lack of faith in Lovie to provide a proper environment.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 339

      For the record Akili Smith and Joey Harrington played in more of a pro style offense while at Oregon under Jeff Tedford who was the OC.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      Mariota will have no success as a pro for at least the first 2 seasons.  Can you wait that long?

      This is about the dumbest reason ever to not want a guy.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 339

      Yeah, he liked him so much, he hauled ass for a marginal pro job in (censored)ty Philadelphia. 

      Well documented how much he hated him, right?

      Actions speak a lot louder than internet drivel.  He hated him.

      Chip Kelly left Oregon cause the NCAA was about to come down on his ass, so much so the NCAA gave him an 18 month show cause penalty while in the NFL.  Which means if he returned to college football within two years of leaving he would be punished for past violations.  Facts are not hard to find.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5572

      Yeah, he liked him so much, he hauled ass for a marginal pro job in (censored)ty Philadelphia. 

      Well documented how much he hated him, right?

      Actions speak a lot louder than internet drivel.  He hated him.

      Chip Kelly left Oregon cause the NCAA was about to come down on his ass, so much so the NCAA gave him an 18 month show cause penalty while in the NFL.  Which means if he returned to college football within two years of leaving he would be punished for past violations.  Facts are not hard to find.

      We've told him, and told him, and told him. Unfortunately, he's not smart enough to get it. Or forturnately, depending on whether or not you think dumb people are funny.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      We’ve told him, and told him, and told him. Unfortunately, he’s not smart enough to get it. Or forturnately, depending on whether or not you think dumb people are funny.

      Or, more accurately, he's just effing with everyone and you all keep responding.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 339

      I have now watched 9 games of Mariota. Can someone please point a peticular game out where he doesn’t throw from the pocket and panics after his first read is covered?  I have seen this as an argument against Mariota, but I don’t see it in any 2014 or 2013 games that I’ve watched.  Should I go back to his freshman year?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Yeah, he liked him so much, he hauled ass for a marginal pro job in (censored)ty Philadelphia. 

      Well documented how much he hated him, right?

      Actions speak a lot louder than internet drivel.  He hated him.

      Don't try backtracking. You said it was well documented. So...let's see it. Or are you that type of guy who simply can't admit that they're completely and totally full of shlt?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 113

      Kelly hates him, it's well documented.  He had a chance to hall ass on Mariota and Oregon and could not get out of Dodge fast enough.  Thinks Mariota is slight and relies too much on sideline coaching to win.

      [citation needed]Seriously, you say it's well-documented.  Let's see some of that documentation.

      You are just as capable as I am of googling it.

      "He's a really special young man," Kelly said. "I think everyone in the league will have to wait a couple of years. I love coaching him. He's exactly what you want in a football player."http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000292722/article/chip-kelly-praises-marcus-mariotas-decision-to-return-to-oregonMan, that's some seething hatred.

      Chip Kelly On Marcus Mariota: ‘You Should Buy Stock In That Kid’http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/12/15/chip-kelly-on-marcus-mariota-you-should-buy-stock-in-that-kid/“I felt lucky that I had an opportunity to coach a young man like that,” Kelly said of Mariota. “When you listen to his [Heisman Trophy] acceptance speech (watch here), I think it’s maybe a sliver of what we got the chance to experience every day to be around him. He’s a special young man. I know I’m better person for being associated with him.”You can just feel the hatred.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      We've told him, and told him, and told him. Unfortunately, he's not smart enough to get it. Or forturnately, depending on whether or not you think dumb people are funny.

      Or, more accurately, he's just effing with everyone and you all keep responding.

      There is no way that it isn't trolling.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      It’s obviously trolling but people keep responding as if though there’s an honest discussion to be had there.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 801

      The problem with Bucs fans is a lot of their partialness to Mariota is not pro Mariota, it's anti-Jameis.

      I agree. The reputation that Winston has created for himself is not his fault. Nothing could ever be the fault of Lord Jameis. Therefore, there must be a problem with Buc fans. This logic is impeccable, do not bother to contest it.

      hahahaha!

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506