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    • michael89156

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      Post count: 3229

      NFL Trade Rumors: Buccaneers trying to trade for an offensive linemanBy Sander Philipse        @Sanderrp Sep 1, 2015 tradenew_zpsrapmh1ev.pngKim Klement-USA TODAY SportsThe Tampa Bay Buccaneers are not happy with their offensive line play, even though I'd say that's an overreaction driven by a poor diagnosis of what the problem is. As would Stephen White. As did Pro Football Focus, who only gave one player a negative pass-blocking grade against the Cleveland Browns: Ali Marpet. Even so, Jenna Laine reports the Bucs are looking to solve this problem by trading for a player.trade1_zpsyeoyjy65.pngThis is not going to work. For one, the problem with the offensive line really hasn't been the play of individual players. With the exception of Ali Marpet, none of the team's offensive linemen were beat especially frequently against the Cleveland Browns. And Marpet's problems are more a result of inexperience than inability, something that'll be fixed with time - and not all that much time, given how much he improved from game one to game two.The issue with the offensive line and the blocking in general was that the protection was constantly overwhelmed by blitzes. The communication and the protection calls were off, and that was the main reason the Bucs gave up so much pressure. That's not something you fix by bringing in an offensive lineman who hasn't played in this system and needs at least a few weeks to acclimate to his new teammates.Lest we forget, the Bucs did the exact same thing last year. They panicked about their offensive line play in the preseason, gave up far too much to take on Logan Mankins' massive contract -- and that then did absolutely nothing to solve the team's problems, both because Mankins took time to adjust to the scheme and players around him, and because Mankins wasn't the All-Pro he'd been years before.And here's my other question: who exactly are you going to replace? Ali Marpet has shown he can physically handle this level of play and just needs some experience to get to a quality level -- experience he's not going to get on the bench. Donovan Smith has looked pretty good in preseason. You just signed Gosder Cherilus to play right tackle while Dotson is injured. You've been praising Logan Mankins and Evan Smith all offseason, and Dirk Koetter went out of his way to name the latter as a positive, too.And what player are you going to replace them with? Where are you going to find an offensive lineman capable of starting this late in the preseason? Without giving up the farm to get him, that is.link

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      Trade for a legit LT and slide DSmith inside. That would fix two problems.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      Tell DSmith that he may be an NFL LT someday, but today is not that day. Tell Marpet that he may be a starter one day, but today is not that day. Done.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      I think the Bucs are looking to trade for an OG for depth.Yeah it doesn't seem likely the Bucs would trade for an OG and start that player over Mankins or Marpet.  The scenario where Smith kicks inside and a new LT is brought is more probable, but still a long shot.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      I think the Bucs are looking to trade for an OG for depth.Yeah it doesn't seem likely the Bucs would trade for an OG and start that player over Mankins or Marpet.  The scenario where Smith kicks inside and a new LT is brought is more probable, but still a long shot.

      Bucs aren’t going to land a LT from anyone. Even via trade, unless they give up a kings ransom for someone worth a damn, and that ain’t happening. They may be on the hunt for a backup guard, a backup swing tackle, but who?  And at what cost?  And how is that one player going to help this rag tag group?  They aren't smart enough up front to decipher blitzes. And Warhop and Koetter aren't capable of helping Winston spot keys in a 3-4 defense either. Tenny is going to thrash Winston, and at that point...we will see the regression from Winston occur. We will see how he reacts after some beats downs and him getting clobbered a few times by massive human beings. He should love JJWatt and Vince Wilfork and Brian Cushing. Should LOVE them. Not. Bet his enthusiasm and "rah-rah" style and megawatt smile start to fade...Winston should be benched until the line works their deal out. Let Glennon increase his trade value if he plays well, and let the line learn cohesion. Yes. It makes Glennon the sacrificial lamb in this scenario, but he doesn't care, and if he plays well, we will recoup a very nice pick from a team for his services. G'teed.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 318

      A little too late L&L.  Let Winston heal and learn the game from the sidelines. Develop what we got and pick up some released line men.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Its simple, kim.If they dont suck, or arent rookies, ..they are injured.Not to mention, "time" is what you think will fix it? I think that kind of time will get winston, then glennon, killed.They had better sign a third qb if they dont get more line help.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 881

      Yeah because trading for OL right before week 1 worked out so well last year.Hey Jason...you are supposed to fix these problems in MARCH and APRIL, not SEPTEMBER!

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    • ZMan08151992

      Member
      Post count: 268

      A little too late L&L.  Let Winston heal and learn the game from the sidelines. Develop what we got and pick up some released line men.

      how do you learn from being on the sidelines....?

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    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Who are they shopping is the interrstimng question to me. Vince? Glennon?Doug? One of the LBers maybe? A contender could be in the market for Vinnie.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      i think thats one of the best articles ive read in a while.  read it again, and see what you disagree with.move smith from LT to RG?  has he ever played there?  everyone who doesnt like smith at LT says its because of his technique, and now we want to move him to a position he has never played and start the real games with no practice?trade for another interior player?  so similar to mankins last season, bring in a guy who is not performing at a level he was once capable of, throw him into the FL heat, an offense he does not know, teammates he does not know, a city he does not know, protections he does not know, audibles he does not know, and ask him to be ready start immediately.the only times out line has looked terrible imo have been to rookies getting beat immediately off the snap and RBs not picking up a free blitzer.

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    • dalaca

      Participant
      Post count: 1975

      i think thats one of the best articles ive read in a while.  read it again, and see what you disagree with.move smith from LT to RG?  has he ever played there?  everyone who doesnt like smith at LT says its because of his technique, and now we want to move him to a position he has never played and start the real games with no practice?trade for another interior player?  so similar to mankins last season, bring in a guy who is not performing at a level he was once capable of, throw him into the FL heat, an offense he does not know, teammates he does not know, a city he does not know, protections he does not know, audibles he does not know, and ask him to be ready start immediately.the only times out line has looked terrible imo have been to rookies getting beat immediately off the snap and RBs not picking up a free blitzer.

      I agree. It does make some credible assessments.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Tenny is going to thrash Winston, and at that point...we will see the regression from Winston occur. Bet his enthusiasm and "rah-rah" style and megawatt smile start to fade...Winston should be benched until the line works their deal out.

      what do you mean by thrash?  do you mean a couple sacks?  do you mean a normal level of NFL pressure?i bet you are wrong about his style and his smile.  and line works their deal out?  what does that even mean?  at least you left it vague as can be.  all marpet has to do is stay in front of his guy next week and the "line has worked their deal out".  all martin has to do is block the guy who is not currently being blocked next week and the "line has worked their deal out".

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1507

      I don’t see how bringing in a new guy is going to fix Evan Smith screwing up line calls and Doug Martin still being a liability in protection after 3 years.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      Should be looking for an edge rusher.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 407

      Lol at Lovie and Light. Now it’s a good idea to improve the OL? I hope they didn’t just realize our OL is garbage. This is the second season in a row they try to address the OL after the offseason was long gone. Their incompetence at evaluating the OL is showing.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Lol at Lovie and Light. Now it's a good idea to improve the OL? I hope they didn't just realize our OL is garbage. This is the second season in a row they try to address the OL after the offseason was long gone. Their incompetence at evaluating the OL is showing.

      To be fair, they used 2 of the top 3 picks on lineman.

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    • suesweat

      Participant
      Post count: 1335

      A little too late L&L.  Let Winston heal and learn the game from the sidelines. Develop what we got and pick up some released line men.

      We don't have anything to develop.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1523

      i swear this team works backwards. So, Evan Mathis (a probowl G) is on the open market for more then a month and a day after he signs with the brincos news comes out that we are looking for G help?…ummm hello the help was a phone call away smdh…i think we might need new management .

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    • suesweat

      Participant
      Post count: 1335

      i swear this team works backwards. So, Evan Mathis (a probowl G) is on the open market for more then a month and a day after he signs with the brincos news comes out that we are looking for G help?...ummm hello the help was a phone call away smdh...i think we might need new management .

      How'd new management work out last time?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      i swear this team works backwards. So, Evan Mathis (a probowl G) is on the open market for more then a month and a day after he signs with the brincos news comes out that we are looking for G help?...ummm hello the help was a phone call away smdh...i think we might need new management .

      Lovie was a mistake. Might have been worse than schiano, we'll see. So far, he actually is.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Lol at Lovie and Light. Now it's a good idea to improve the OL? I hope they didn't just realize our OL is garbage. This is the second season in a row they try to address the OL after the offseason was long gone. Their incompetence at evaluating the OL is showing.

      this is the second season they have made massive changes to the OL in the offseason, and then even more during the preseason.  im not sure incompetence is the right word, the only OL they really blew it on was collins.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      i swear this team works backwards. So, Evan Mathis (a probowl G) is on the open market for more then a month and a day after he signs with the brincos news comes out that we are looking for G help?...ummm hello the help was a phone call away smdh...i think we might need new management .

      Although the new management comment might be correct, can you prove the Bucs did not reach out to Mathis and he just flatly turned them down?  Seems to me he wanted money and a contender.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      Lol at Lovie and Light. Now it's a good idea to improve the OL? I hope they didn't just realize our OL is garbage. This is the second season in a row they try to address the OL after the offseason was long gone. Their incompetence at evaluating the OL is showing.

      this is the second season they have made massive changes to the OL in the offseason, and then even more during the preseason.  im not sure incompetence is the right word, the only OL they really blew it on was collins.

      To be fair, I think we can call the Zuttah trade a blown move.  Yes?  What did we turn that pick into?  Is that what we used on the botched Johnson contract?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      To be fair, I think we can call the Zuttah trade a blown move.  Yes?  What did we turn that pick into?  Is that what we used on the botched Johnson contract?

      blown move might be a little harsh, but i understand.  zuttah is supposedly playing well in balt (i havent seen a game, but i dont doubt the reports).  zuttah has always been a versatile OL.  but our fans certainly remember the good and not the bad.  he was not loved in Tampa.  the way i defend our current players is the way i defended zut.  he was average.  for all his weight room strength it didnt translate.  he was more serviceable at C than G if i remember right, but he wasnt a stud.he went to a ZBS with some serious talent around him and now he looks good.  imo, he wasnt the same player here, and wouldnt have been the same player here.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 855

      Okay, people are under the impression that its impossible to find good OL via trade/FA. On October 1st 2013, the Ravens traded a fourth and sixth round pick for Eugene Monroe who has ended up a good player for them. They got him out that hell hole in Jacksonville and saved his career. Fact is, yeah we are not proactive about the OL talent and its showing. I do think there is a chance we could potentially find someone to help this unit for trade. Who the player is, I don't know but its certainly possible to bring in a long-term answer in August.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 145

      trade for an OL player? we should better trade for three of them!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1523

      i swear this team works backwards. So, Evan Mathis (a probowl G) is on the open market for more then a month and a day after he signs with the brincos news comes out that we are looking for G help?...ummm hello the help was a phone call away smdh...i think we might need new management .

      Although the new management comment might be correct, can you prove the Bucs did not reach out to Mathis and he just flatly turned them down?  Seems to me he wanted money and a contender.

      C'mon dude really? had we even thought of calling Mathis would of been all over the red board. with your way of thinking then management should never be blamed  for lack of good play on the field cuz we really dont know the top FA they target and didnt sign here.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      i remember thinking ‘wth’ when i heard that trade.  im not sure if OL who were top10 picks are usually available.the team has been proactive with regards to OL.  the team has not been successful - yet.  but c'mon.  they had one season of carlos arroyo calling plays.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      C'mon dude really? had we even thought of calling Mathis would of been all over the red board. with your way of thinking then management should never be blamed  for lack of good play on the field cuz we really dont know the top FA they target and didnt sign here.

      there is not one insider left on the redboard.  no one knows what is happening inside OBP.  anyone with half a brain would know that we thought of calling mathis.  but thats what the redboard is nowadays, not fullbrainers.  its all agendas, chickenlittles and snippets from the fishwraps.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 56

      If this rumor is really true, and they’re adamant about keeping Evan Smith at C, why not try Warren at G? It’s not like he’s a small, crafty lineman that can only make it as a Center. The guy’s a legit people-mover.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      i swear this team works backwards. So, Evan Mathis (a probowl G) is on the open market for more then a month and a day after he signs with the brincos news comes out that we are looking for G help?...ummm hello the help was a phone call away smdh...i think we might need new management .

      Although the new management comment might be correct, can you prove the Bucs did not reach out to Mathis and he just flatly turned them down?  Seems to me he wanted money and a contender.

      C'mon dude really? had we even thought of calling Mathis would of been all over the red board. with your way of thinking then management should never be blamed  for lack of good play on the field cuz we really dont know the top FA they target and didnt sign here.

      If it's on the internet Red Board, it must be true. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1523

      C'mon dude really? had we even thought of calling Mathis would of been all over the red board. with your way of thinking then management should never be blamed  for lack of good play on the field cuz we really dont know the top FA they target and didnt sign here.

      there is not one insider left on the redboard.  no one knows what is happening inside OBP.  anyone with half a brain would know that we thought of calling mathis.  but thats what the redboard is nowadays, not fullbrainers.  its all agendas, chickenlittles and snippets from the fishwraps.

      So Mathis goes to the Broncos and yall say that he wanted to play for a conterder right? Wiz goes to JAX and yall say he took the money....where does it ever end bro? thats all bullsh!t if you ask me. managment cant get it done in FA point blank.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      So Mathis goes to the Broncos and yall say that he wanted to play for a conterder right? Wiz goes to JAX and yall say he took the money….where does it ever end bro? thats all bullsh!t if you ask me. managment cant get it done in FA point blank.

      mathis goes to the broncos and i say he wanted a ZBS.  wiz goes to jax and i say he wanted to play C.it never ends though.  there is no real info here.  so you simply have to make educated guesses as much as possible, without going off the deep end.  mathis has played in a ZBS for how long?  why would he want to sign with a team that is different?  wiz couldnt get a deal with the seahawks and they just jettisoned both their C and their G.  last season penn, wiz, and gabe jackson anchored one of the worst OLs in football?  and our fans put them on pedestals?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      To be fair, I think we can call the Zuttah trade a blown move.  Yes?  What did we turn that pick into?  Is that what we used on the botched Johnson contract?

      blown move might be a little harsh, but i understand.  zuttah is supposedly playing well in balt (i havent seen a game, but i dont doubt the reports).  zuttah has always been a versatile OL.  but our fans certainly remember the good and not the bad.  he was not loved in Tampa.  the way i defend our current players is the way i defended zut.  he was average.  for all his weight room strength it didnt translate.  he was more serviceable at C than G if i remember right, but he wasnt a stud.he went to a ZBS with some serious talent around him and now he looks good.  imo, he wasnt the same player here, and wouldnt have been the same player here.

      I was totally fine with the trade when it happened.  I also think of him as very average.  I believe most fans were willing to give the new management team, with dann near 1/3 of the cap at their disposal, the benefit of the doubt.  I figured we would sign someone better than average, and if they didn't think he was a potential starter, get something for him since we could use a bunch of picks. We sure could use some very average interior linemen right now tho......

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      . We sure could use some very average interior linemen right now tho......

      maybe, but our starting RB is averaging 6ypc this preseason?  winston has has time to throw imo as well, but hes a rookie who is learning.  hes taken coverage sacks, hes thrown into coverage and hes thrown inaccurate.  hes also had a few plays where he had no chance due to our rookie OL, but those arent happening every dropback.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 746

      Why does Jenna care what we do with the O-line?  The guy they’re protecting is the same guy she slandered endlessly on her twitter account. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      So Mathis goes to the Broncos and yall say that he wanted to play for a conterder right? Wiz goes to JAX and yall say he took the money....where does it ever end bro? thats all bullsh!t if you ask me. managment cant get it done in FA point blank.

      mathis goes to the broncos and i say he wanted a ZBS.  wiz goes to jax and i say he wanted to play C.it never ends though.  there is no real info here.  so you simply have to make educated guesses as much as possible, without going off the deep end.  mathis has played in a ZBS for how long?  why would he want to sign with a team that is different?  wiz couldnt get a deal with the seahawks and they just jettisoned both their C and their G.  last season penn, wiz, and gabe jackson anchored one of the worst OLs in football?  and our fans put them on pedestals?

      Please stop using logic.  It's not fair to the other posters.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 57

      What a pathetic joke!  We went invested in a 14 on the black jack table in Winston when we should have been doing everything humanly possible to upgrade our offensive & defensive lines.  Tell me a Superbowl champion ever that won without at least having one if not two dominant lines?!  No, this franchise's management caves into the peer pressure and goes out and lands us another Cam Newton/Vince Young "Franchise QB" and it will sell out the first few games...maybe.  After that, the glaring reality anyone with a pea-sized brain already knew was we were going to be bad...again...because we can't get to the quarterback and we can't protect the quarterback.I like Jamies Winston...but the guy doesn't stand a chance.  The Bucs knew this BEFORE he was ever traded.  Is Glennon better than Winston?  I don't have a clue and never will....because both of them are having to run for their lives.  This isn't a coaching problem...this is a personnel problem. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 199

      The bucs had to get the qb. Period. You don’t pass on qb. You can draft linemen in any round but if you pass on that qb. You are officially done. Thats like saying the colts shouldve passed pn luck. Or manning. The lines were terrible their rookie years. Troy aikman went 1 and 15 his first year. Next year you wil see more dline and oline bc we have addressed most of our main issues.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      Why does Jenna care what we do with the O-line?  The guy they're protecting is the same guy she slandered endlessly on her twitter account.

      She slandered him? I stopped following her a while back, what did she say?

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    • stonecoldbucsfan

      Participant
      Post count: 602

      I saw something about the Titans won’t cut Levitre but will keep him as a backup. I don’t know why he’s not done too hot there he was good in Buffalo.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      Tell me a Superbowl champion ever that won without at least having one if not two dominant lines?! 

      the pats last season?

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    • johnd

      Participant
      Post count: 333

      If I were the Bucs I would trade Winston straight up for a decent young OT.  Then just roll with Glennon.  That is if you want any shot of having a winning record.  Admit your mistakes and move on I say.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      . We sure could use some very average interior linemen right now tho......

      maybe, but our starting RB is averaging 6ypc this preseason?  winston has has time to throw imo as well, but hes a rookie who is learning.  hes taken coverage sacks, hes thrown into coverage and hes thrown inaccurate.  hes also had a few plays where he had no chance due to our rookie OL, but those arent happening every dropback.

      Our opinions appear to diverge greatly here.  Clearly you believe this to be a functional offensive line.  I do not share that assessment.  Differing views on offensive line roster moves makes sense given how far apart our opinions of their play are.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      Our opinions appear to diverge greatly here.  Clearly you believe this to be a functional offensive line.  I do not share that assessment.  Differing views on offensive line roster moves makes sense given how far apart our opinions of their play are.

      probably so.  i think i have lower expections for a NFL OL.  from reading this board, i think many have much higher expectations.  i wonder how so many fans have the time to honestly compare our OL to another teams OL, and then take into account who is playing QB.shoot yeah i think they are functional.  marpet was very shaky last game, is that the player he will be every game?  will he improve?  i choose the latter of course, but i also understand he will get beat this season.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8096

      Tell me a Superbowl champion ever that won without at least having one if not two dominant lines?! 

      the pats last season?

      Both top 10, according to these:http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/stats/2014/Final/OHI/http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/stats/2014/Final/DHI/

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8044

      Both top 10, according to these:http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/stats/2014/Final/OHI/http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/stats/2014/Final/DHI/

      you dont think that website puts too much on QB play?  they dont care that they only averaged 3.9 ypc because their offense didnt throw INTs and converted 3rd downs?defensively, it makes a little more sense, but again, its all about how well a QB plays against you.  its much more of a overall defensive ranking than DL imo.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5954

      I hope you meant to post those links in blue and not to support a claim that the Patriots had a good offensive line last season?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      Both top 10, according to these:http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/stats/2014/Final/OHI/http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/stats/2014/Final/DHI/

      you dont think that website puts too much on QB play?  they dont care that they only averaged 3.9 ypc because their offense didnt throw INTs and converted 3rd downs?defensively, it makes a little more sense, but again, its all about how well a QB plays against you.  its much more of a overall defensive ranking than DL imo.

      That website also ranked Seattle among the 10 best offensive lines........But yeah, the criteria is laughable imo.

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      wait a tick……..so the hyper small school…jewish….marpet…..who has yet to play in a regular season game…..isn’t a pro bowler yet?FIRE HIM

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5954

      Or let him develop behind a guard who is ready to start against NFL defensive linemen week 1……….

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 318

      A little too late L&L.  Let Winston heal and learn the game from the sidelines. Develop what we got and pick up some released line men.

      how do you learn from being on the sidelines....?

      http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/when-to-start-your-rookie-quarterback-050715Most college teams play around 12-13 games in their season.  Historically, most 1st round NFL quarterbacks essentially were able to sit on the bench for what felt (to them as NFL rookies) like a full, extra football season, where they could simply develop and learning without game pressure/stress, before making their first start.Now, these players are expected to start after watching just 1 NFL game from the bench.  Its hard to put into words that massive difference, my sense is the only person who really would be able to adequately describe it would be a rookie NFL quarterback."I think this trend aligns very closely w/ head coach job security", Joe noted. "Head coaches seem to have less time to develop players so they are playing into that trend by playing younger guys earlier when maybe they should be sitting them for a few more games. There's a saying to college players coming to the NFL: 'Everyone just got better except you'."As Joe said, the competition is instantly better in the NFL.  So playing a rookie QB in his true week 1, without that time to learn on the bench, means they must face those better players immediately.  Whereas if they had 14+ games to develop, they could be improving constantly over that time, so that the gap would not be as intense or overwhelming by the time they have their first start.analysis showed was:- More and more often, QBs are being thrust into the starting lineup faster and faster, younger and younger.- But starting a high draft pick QB as a rookie generally led to a lower passer rating from him and worse win percentage in years 1, 2 and onward as compared to the QBs who are given the chance to develop and learn from the sideline.- Pressure from the ownership to "play the new QB to win now" is actually a misnomer.  They may win more than they won last year, but they still end up leading the team to sub-.500 records their rookie year and .500 their second year.  They rarely "win now".

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1198

      They didn’t learn from last year’s mistakes…This is now year 7 of the Glazers rebuilding plan after firing Gruden. Still a bad offensive line, no pass rush, and question marks at QB and in the secondary.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      I’ll give you bad O-line and no pass rush. Secondary is average. QB questions? Sure, however, I think you have to take it in the right context. Hell, they drafted one of the best college QB prospects in the past decade with the #1 overall pick. Can’t hit them for not trying there.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2188

      If I were the Bucs I would trade Winston straight up for a decent young OT.  Then just roll with Glennon.  That is if you want any shot of having a winning record.  Admit your mistakes and move on I say.

      Lol sorry Mike. Not gonna happen.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      – But starting a high draft pick QB as a rookie generally led to a lower passer rating from him and worse win percentage in years 1, 2 and onward as compared to the QBs who are given the chance to develop and learn from the sideline.- Pressure from the ownership to "play the new QB to win now" is actually a misnomer.  They may win more than they won last year, but they still end up leading the team to sub-.500 records their rookie year and .500 their second year.  They rarely "win now".

      SIGH....

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Or let him develop behind a guard who is ready to start against NFL defensive linemen week 1..........

      mental reps?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Admit your mistakes and move on I say.

      which explains why you're back on the Boards under a different account name

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 303

      C'mon dude really? had we even thought of calling Mathis would of been all over the red board. with your way of thinking then management should never be blamed  for lack of good play on the field cuz we really dont know the top FA they target and didnt sign here.

      there is not one insider left on the redboard.  no one knows what is happening inside OBP.  anyone with half a brain would know that we thought of calling mathis.  but thats what the redboard is nowadays, not fullbrainers.  its all agendas, chickenlittles and snippets from the fishwraps.

      So Mathis goes to the Broncos and yall say that he wanted to play for a conterder right? Wiz goes to JAX and yall say he took the money....where does it ever end bro? thats all bullsh!t if you ask me. managment cant get it done in FA point blank.

      So they swung a big bag of money last year....whiffed.....and got demolished by the fans. This time around they clearly avoided aging vets looking for big money....and are getting demolished by (some) fans. They've made their stance known about building through the draft. Probably hoping maybe, just maybe, the garbage we kept around from last year could actually get their shit together. They didn't. But I gotta think they first had to see what they had with a new OC, training camp and few preseason games. This thing isn't going to be turned around in one offseason. The key now is to not give up the booty for more one year fixes. Bucs may very well indeed trade for OL help but I hope and pray its for a younger talent with higher upside & multiple years. We need to stop looking at this team as a few 1 year players away from being fixed.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      - But starting a high draft pick QB as a rookie generally led to a lower passer rating from him and worse win percentage in years 1, 2 and onward as compared to the QBs who are given the chance to develop and learn from the sideline.- Pressure from the ownership to "play the new QB to win now" is actually a misnomer.  They may win more than they won last year, but they still end up leading the team to sub-.500 records their rookie year and .500 their second year.  They rarely "win now".

      SIGH....

      i dont buy all this.  one, i dont see how they make these comparisons, its football, not logic.  two, whats a high draft pick QB?  first round?  who are the last 5 high draft pick QBs that sat at a rookie?  aaron rodgers?  did you guys remember that aaron rodgers sat and developed for 3 whole years?  he then went out and turned a 13 win team into a 6 win team.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      This kind of nonsense drives me nuts…."The Tampa Bay Buccaneers are not happy with their offensive line play, even though I'd say that's an overreaction driven by a poor diagnosis of what the problem is. As would Stephen White. As did Pro Football Focus, who only gave one player a negative pass-blocking grade against the Cleveland Browns: Ali Marpet. Even so, Jenna Laine reports the Bucs are looking to solve this problem by trading for a player."Wow, the guy from Bucnation thinks he knows more about the OL than anybody in the building. Sure. First of all, who says this is about the Cleveland game in isolation? Who says this is about the starting 5? Speaking of overreaction, Bucnation should listen to his own freak-out. Go listen to the Bucs Brief podcast where SR talks about the OL in that game. The Bucs are acutely aware of who got help, who didn't, where the communication issues were, etc. I don't doubt that the Bucs are looking at possible trades. I also would be stunned if this hasn't been true since the start of training camp or even before. If I had to guess, this is more about the Bucs getting quality depth along the interior. Given that Gilkey has failed miserably at C, Allen got injured/cut, and Warren was seen as option 3 at best before about a week ago, we are looking at a G/C.

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    • snidley

      Participant
      Post count: 415

      Someone in need of a serviceable to better QB might trade us a solid OL for Glennon.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 648

      Lol at Lovie and Light. Now it's a good idea to improve the OL? I hope they didn't just realize our OL is garbage. This is the second season in a row they try to address the OL after the offseason was long gone. Their incompetence at evaluating the OL is showing.

      What is using 2nd and 3rd round picks on O-line along with the signing of 3 linemen in the past 2 seasons if not trying to fix the o-line?A position isn't always fixable in 2 seasons. It's taken us 30 whatever years to find a Qb. Our D line hasnt been good since 03. We are a bad team with holes that can't all just magically be fixed with the wave of a wand.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 648

      They didn't learn from last year's mistakes...This is now year 7 of the Glazers rebuilding plan after firing Gruden. Still a bad offensive line, no pass rush, and question marks at QB and in the secondary.

      Hahahaha question marks on our rookie QB, who would have guessed?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      C'mon dude really? had we even thought of calling Mathis would of been all over the red board. with your way of thinking then management should never be blamed  for lack of good play on the field cuz we really dont know the top FA they target and didnt sign here.

      there is not one insider left on the redboard.  no one knows what is happening inside OBP.  anyone with half a brain would know that we thought of calling mathis.  but thats what the redboard is nowadays, not fullbrainers.  its all agendas, chickenlittles and snippets from the fishwraps.

      So Mathis goes to the Broncos and yall say that he wanted to play for a conterder right? Wiz goes to JAX and yall say he took the money....where does it ever end bro? thats all bullsh!t if you ask me. managment cant get it done in FA point blank.

      So they swung a big bag of money last year....whiffed.....and got demolished by the fans. This time around they clearly avoided aging vets looking for big money....and are getting demolished by (some) fans. They've made their stance known about building through the draft. Probably hoping maybe, just maybe, the garbage we kept around from last year could actually get their (censored) together. They didn't. But I gotta think they first had to see what they had with a new OC, training camp and few preseason games. This thing isn't going to be turned around in one offseason. The key now is to not give up the booty for more one year fixes. Bucs may very well indeed trade for OL help but I hope and pray its for a younger talent with higher upside & multiple years. We need to stop looking at this team as a few 1 year players away from being fixed.

      What about 2 off seasons?  3?  When do we start counting Lovie Smith's tenure?  Or do we just keep calling it one offseason until he starts to get it right?There is no one way we are going to get back to having a good roster.  We can have good drafts the next two years and still not be fixed.  A good draft nets you 2-3 starting quality football players.  That sounds like a really long term plan.We need to be able to draft well, AND scout pro personnel well, AND sign smart FA contracts, AND take advantage of beneficial trades, AND scout the undrafted and the practice squads.That is what good franchises do.  Everything well.  The Patriots have obtained key members of their Super Bowl teams utilizing all those methods.  I don't think it is too much to ask that our FO is competent at all those things simultaneously.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      i dont buy all this.  one, i dont see how they make these comparisons, its football, not logic.  two, whats a high draft pick QB?  first round?  who are the last 5 high draft pick QBs that sat at a rookie?  aaron rodgers?  did you guys remember that aaron rodgers sat and developed for 3 whole years?  he then went out and turned a 13 win team into a 6 win team.2014:1st RdBridgewater 7-9Bortles 3-13Manziel didn't play enough2nd RdCarr  3-13Garrapolo didn't start20131st RdEJ Manual  'nuff said2nd RdGeno Smith  'nuff said20121st RdLuck 11-5 and 11-5RG III 10-6 and HURTTannehill 7-9 amd 8-8Weedon  'nuff saidJust a quick look and it is not as far off as you think2nd RdOswieler 'nuff said

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 855

      Its GENERALLY easier to fix up a offensive line than it is to find actual GOOD skill position players. While yes, TB may have done it backwards but no OL was worth taking over Evans. Matthews was picked just ahead of Mike and he was the only true LT worth taking then in the top 10.Bucs fans are in panic mode already and our franchise QB hasn't even played a meaningful down yet all because of 3 measly pre-season games. Tampa will invest into the OL heading forward. Dolphins had a piece of crap blocking for Tannehill for years up until last year and he registered his best season. And guess what, last year they took TWO rookie OL to protect him in Ju'Wuan James RT and G Billy Turner.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 746

      Why does Jenna care what we do with the O-line?  The guy they're protecting is the same guy she slandered endlessly on her twitter account.

      She slandered him? I stopped following her a while back, what did she say?

      She went on a Twitter tirade of epic proportions when Willie Meggs announced he wasn't going to pursue the charges of rape .  Basically, she didn't read the police report and went rampaging through Twitter calling him a rapist and getting more and more belligerent as people pointed out the facts she was getting wrong. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 303

      C'mon dude really? had we even thought of calling Mathis would of been all over the red board. with your way of thinking then management should never be blamed  for lack of good play on the field cuz we really dont know the top FA they target and didnt sign here.

      there is not one insider left on the redboard.  no one knows what is happening inside OBP.  anyone with half a brain would know that we thought of calling mathis.  but thats what the redboard is nowadays, not fullbrainers.  its all agendas, chickenlittles and snippets from the fishwraps.

      So Mathis goes to the Broncos and yall say that he wanted to play for a conterder right? Wiz goes to JAX and yall say he took the money....where does it ever end bro? thats all bullsh!t if you ask me. managment cant get it done in FA point blank.

      So they swung a big bag of money last year....whiffed.....and got demolished by the fans. This time around they clearly avoided aging vets looking for big money....and are getting demolished by (some) fans. They've made their stance known about building through the draft. Probably hoping maybe, just maybe, the garbage we kept around from last year could actually get their (censored) together. They didn't. But I gotta think they first had to see what they had with a new OC, training camp and few preseason games. This thing isn't going to be turned around in one offseason. The key now is to not give up the booty for more one year fixes. Bucs may very well indeed trade for OL help but I hope and pray its for a younger talent with higher upside & multiple years. We need to stop looking at this team as a few 1 year players away from being fixed.

      What about 2 off seasons?  3?  When do we start counting Lovie Smith's tenure?  Or do we just keep calling it one offseason until he starts to get it right?There is no one way we are going to get back to having a good roster.  We can have good drafts the next two years and still not be fixed.  A good draft nets you 2-3 starting quality football players.  That sounds like a really long term plan.We need to be able to draft well, AND scout pro personnel well, AND sign smart FA contracts, AND take advantage of beneficial trades, AND scout the undrafted and the practice squads.That is what good franchises do.  Everything well.  The Patriots have obtained key members of their Super Bowl teams utilizing all those methods.  I don't think it is too much to ask that our FO is competent at all those things simultaneously.

      Wholeheartedly agree. And I do feel like we were much smarter in regards to FA signings this past offseason. So far, I'd say our drafting was much better this year, also.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      Good.  Then there should be no excuse for not pursuing any/all of those avenues for roster development.  Don’t say we can’t sign a stop gap because we are building through the draft.  Unless the stop gap pushes a promising young player off the roster.  I do not see that being the case at any of our need position groups.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 303

      Good.  Then there should be no excuse for not pursuing any/all of those avenues for roster development.  Don't say we can't sign a stop gap because we are building through the draft.  Unless the stop gap pushes a promising young player off the roster.  I do not see that being the case at any of our need position groups.

      I guess the other point in my head, that I didn't make, is I truly believe Licht is gunshy after his FA results last offseason. He opened the purse strings and got burned bad. And I really wish some would at least acknowledge the fact that FA's hold all the chips in deciding whether to come here or not. And right now, even though we are young, our onfield play hasn't shown much to be optimistic about.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      She went on a Twitter tirade of epic proportions when Willie Meggs announced he wasn't going to pursue the charges of rape .  Basically, she didn't read the police report and went rampaging through Twitter calling him a rapist and getting more and more belligerent as people pointed out the facts she was getting wrong.

      Wow, surprising. I would not have expected that from Jenna Laine.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2169

      Hey they signed Gosder Cherilus…trading for more linemen is like stealing his oxygen!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      Lol at Lovie and Light. Now it's a good idea to improve the OL? I hope they didn't just realize our OL is garbage. This is the second season in a row they try to address the OL after the offseason was long gone. Their incompetence at evaluating the OL is showing.

      What is using 2nd and 3rd round picks on O-line along with the signing of 3 linemen in the past 2 seasons if not trying to fix the o-line?A position isn't always fixable in 2 seasons. It's taken us 30 whatever years to find a Qb. Our D line hasnt been good since 03. We are a bad team with holes that can't all just magically be fixed with the wave of a wand.

      I would answer that with....our OL was bad when LL got here and it is worse now. Making moves is great. Finally drafting OL is great. Trading for better players is great. But we fans want results. We want to see progress, not regression. I reckon if they cant pick up a real NFL LT anytime soon we just roll with what we have and hope that by seasons end they are starting to gel. It has happened before. The SB champion OL was terrible but ended up gelling. Kenyatta Walker and Cosey Coleman won SB rings? It is not impossible. But we are at least one year away from our rag tag OL gelling and producing. As a fan, it sucks to know that your season has no chance before it even begins.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 648

      Lol at Lovie and Light. Now it's a good idea to improve the OL? I hope they didn't just realize our OL is garbage. This is the second season in a row they try to address the OL after the offseason was long gone. Their incompetence at evaluating the OL is showing.

      What is using 2nd and 3rd round picks on O-line along with the signing of 3 linemen in the past 2 seasons if not trying to fix the o-line?A position isn't always fixable in 2 seasons. It's taken us 30 whatever years to find a Qb. Our D line hasnt been good since 03. We are a bad team with holes that can't all just magically be fixed with the wave of a wand.

      I would answer that with....our OL was bad when LL got here and it is worse now. Making moves is great. Finally drafting OL is great. Trading for better players is great. But we fans want results. We want to see progress, not regression. I reckon if they cant pick up a real NFL LT anytime soon we just roll with what we have and hope that by seasons end they are starting to gel. It has happened before. The SB champion OL was terrible but ended up gelling. Kenyatta Walker and Cosey Coleman won SB rings? It is not impossible. But we are at least one year away from our rag tag OL gelling and producing. As a fan, it sucks to know that your season has no chance before it even begins.

      How can you call it regression before the season even begins?Our O-line Pre-LL was garbage. There was 0 reason to continue to pay guys like Donald Penn if they are trying to establish a new regime. They went out and found the best possible replacements that we could afford in free agency and attempted to add some weapons in the draft. They brought in Mankins off the Pats. It's easy to say "how has there not been progress" but if you have been following this team it's pretty clear there were no other real options sans using our top picks on O-line instead of Evans/Winston/Sims.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      Lol at Lovie and Light. Now it's a good idea to improve the OL? I hope they didn't just realize our OL is garbage. This is the second season in a row they try to address the OL after the offseason was long gone. Their incompetence at evaluating the OL is showing.

      What is using 2nd and 3rd round picks on O-line along with the signing of 3 linemen in the past 2 seasons if not trying to fix the o-line?A position isn't always fixable in 2 seasons. It's taken us 30 whatever years to find a Qb. Our D line hasnt been good since 03. We are a bad team with holes that can't all just magically be fixed with the wave of a wand.

      I would answer that with....our OL was bad when LL got here and it is worse now. Making moves is great. Finally drafting OL is great. Trading for better players is great. But we fans want results. We want to see progress, not regression. I reckon if they cant pick up a real NFL LT anytime soon we just roll with what we have and hope that by seasons end they are starting to gel. It has happened before. The SB champion OL was terrible but ended up gelling. Kenyatta Walker and Cosey Coleman won SB rings? It is not impossible. But we are at least one year away from our rag tag OL gelling and producing. As a fan, it sucks to know that your season has no chance before it even begins.

      How can you call it regression before the season even begins?Our O-line Pre-LL was garbage. There was 0 reason to continue to pay guys like Donald Penn if they are trying to establish a new regime. They went out and found the best possible replacements that we could afford in free agency and attempted to add some weapons in the draft. They brought in Mankins off the Pats. It's easy to say "how has there not been progress" but if you have been following this team it's pretty clear there were no other real options sans using our top picks on O-line instead of Evans/Winston/Sims.

      I agree they did the right thing by drafting OL early this year. But my regression comment is reflective of last year inclusive. Penn and Zuttah were not Pro Bowlers, but they are still to this day better than the replacements. I am as a fan not happy about how they have handled the OL. I am entitled to vent about it. That is all.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      I don’t want the Bucs to keep throwing money at the problem doing another knee jerk trade ala Mankins.Stick with what you have, draft and develop.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 303

      Lol at Lovie and Light. Now it's a good idea to improve the OL? I hope they didn't just realize our OL is garbage. This is the second season in a row they try to address the OL after the offseason was long gone. Their incompetence at evaluating the OL is showing.

      What is using 2nd and 3rd round picks on O-line along with the signing of 3 linemen in the past 2 seasons if not trying to fix the o-line?A position isn't always fixable in 2 seasons. It's taken us 30 whatever years to find a Qb. Our D line hasnt been good since 03. We are a bad team with holes that can't all just magically be fixed with the wave of a wand.

      I would answer that with....our OL was bad when LL got here and it is worse now. Making moves is great. Finally drafting OL is great. Trading for better players is great. But we fans want results. We want to see progress, not regression. I reckon if they cant pick up a real NFL LT anytime soon we just roll with what we have and hope that by seasons end they are starting to gel. It has happened before. The SB champion OL was terrible but ended up gelling. Kenyatta Walker and Cosey Coleman won SB rings? It is not impossible. But we are at least one year away from our rag tag OL gelling and producing. As a fan, it sucks to know that your season has no chance before it even begins.

      How can you call it regression before the season even begins?Our O-line Pre-LL was garbage. There was 0 reason to continue to pay guys like Donald Penn if they are trying to establish a new regime. They went out and found the best possible replacements that we could afford in free agency and attempted to add some weapons in the draft. They brought in Mankins off the Pats. It's easy to say "how has there not been progress" but if you have been following this team it's pretty clear there were no other real options sans using our top picks on O-line instead of Evans/Winston/Sims.

      I agree they did the right thing by drafting OL early this year. But my regression comment is reflective of last year inclusive. Penn and Zuttah were not Pro Bowlers, but they are still to this day better than the replacements. I am as a fan not happy about how they have handled the OL. I am entitled to vent about it. That is all.

      Tedford, JeffArroyo, Marcus

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 407

      Lol at Lovie and Light. Now it's a good idea to improve the OL? I hope they didn't just realize our OL is garbage. This is the second season in a row they try to address the OL after the offseason was long gone. Their incompetence at evaluating the OL is showing.

      What is using 2nd and 3rd round picks on O-line along with the signing of 3 linemen in the past 2 seasons if not trying to fix the o-line?A position isn't always fixable in 2 seasons. It's taken us 30 whatever years to find a Qb. Our D line hasnt been good since 03. We are a bad team with holes that can't all just magically be fixed with the wave of a wand.

      I would answer that with....our OL was bad when LL got here and it is worse now. Making moves is great. Finally drafting OL is great. Trading for better players is great. But we fans want results. We want to see progress, not regression. I reckon if they cant pick up a real NFL LT anytime soon we just roll with what we have and hope that by seasons end they are starting to gel. It has happened before. The SB champion OL was terrible but ended up gelling. Kenyatta Walker and Cosey Coleman won SB rings? It is not impossible. But we are at least one year away from our rag tag OL gelling and producing. As a fan, it sucks to know that your season has no chance before it even begins.

      How can you call it regression before the season even begins?Our O-line Pre-LL was garbage. There was 0 reason to continue to pay guys like Donald Penn if they are trying to establish a new regime. They went out and found the best possible replacements that we could afford in free agency and attempted to add some weapons in the draft. They brought in Mankins off the Pats. It's easy to say "how has there not been progress" but if you have been following this team it's pretty clear there were no other real options sans using our top picks on O-line instead of Evans/Winston/Sims.

      We were the worst team in the NFL last year. It's ok to suck in one area but not all facets of the game. Instead of spending money on garbage o-line men and other crap players, we could have spent the money elsewhere and made other areas stronger, instead we replaced weaknesses with more garbage. By doing that we could have been better than 2-14. With the right moves, we would have won the division last year.Any fool can figure out our oline sucks, and they can also throw money at FAs, but they also have bad judgment and make incorrect decisions (Lovie/Licht)

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Tell me a Superbowl champion ever that won without at least having one if not two dominant lines?! 

      Aaron Rodgers

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      I don't want the Bucs to keep throwing money at the problem doing another knee jerk trade ala Mankins.Stick with what you have, draft and develop.

      We don't want our GM to make a trade to improve our team.  I agree with you sentiment, but what does that say about our GM?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      I don't want the Bucs to keep throwing money at the problem doing another knee jerk trade ala Mankins.Stick with what you have, draft and develop.

      We don't want our GM to make a trade to improve our team.  I agree with you sentiment, but what does that say about our GM?

      It says the Bucs need another draft to fix the line.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Just a quick look and it is not as far off as you think

      im just confused on the argument.  the only QBs you mentioned who sat were garrapolo and osweiler, right?  so how are they a reason that rookie QBs need to sit?  the “analytics” are impossible.

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    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      I dont think you can trade for anyone worth a damn might as well put in a waiver claim on a young guy or two and hope the hell he turns into somethng.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Tell me a Superbowl champion ever that won without at least having one if not two dominant lines?! 

      Aaron Rodgers

      I'll give you that one hate, but unfortunately i think thats it since 1990. Probably farther.I had to look it up out of curiosity. Everyone talks this and that, ..then i get to wondering. This in particular, and especially now.Also, he said, "player" but im assuming he means qb.Still, I believe tampa just picked up two good linemen in smith and ali. It just sucks out loud that we have no choice but to wait and see with them, but at least they look like alright prospects. This might actually be a good line if they keep building on it, theyre just not good.. yet.Either way though, they gotta get warhop the fug outta there. Im starting to think hes just not training them properly.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 67

      O-Line is ok the thing is we now have Safeties, so we will win and you wont notice the O-Line.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      O-Line is ok the thing is we now have Safeties, so we will win and you wont notice the O-Line.

      Damnit schiano! ..go back to beating 19 year olds and practicing the v-form.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      I don't want the Bucs to keep throwing money at the problem doing another knee jerk trade ala Mankins.Stick with what you have, draft and develop.

      The only problem I have with that scenario is that I believe we are lacking talent. Our upside got better post draft but we are waiting on the kids to develop and then gel. If we could get a real dominant LT then I think we would have enough developed talent that we would just have to wait for them to gel. One good player plugged in could save us a years worth of waiting for good results. Of course, if they are going to make a trade they better make sure they are getting a really good player because otherwise we may as well let the kids develop. No sense in wasting more picks.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Lovie trading for a offensive lineman?  Oh looooord the agony…

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      This kind of nonsense drives me nuts...."The Tampa Bay Buccaneers are not happy with their offensive line play, even though I'd say that's an overreaction driven by a poor diagnosis of what the problem is. As would Stephen White. As did Pro Football Focus, who only gave one player a negative pass-blocking grade against the Cleveland Browns: Ali Marpet. Even so, Jenna Laine reports the Bucs are looking to solve this problem by trading for a player."Wow, the guy from Bucnation thinks he knows more about the OL than anybody in the building. Sure. First of all, who says this is about the Cleveland game in isolation? Who says this is about the starting 5? Speaking of overreaction, Bucnation should listen to his own freak-out. Go listen to the Bucs Brief podcast where SR talks about the OL in that game. The Bucs are acutely aware of who got help, who didn't, where the communication issues were, etc. I don't doubt that the Bucs are looking at possible trades. I also would be stunned if this hasn't been true since the start of training camp or even before. If I had to guess, this is more about the Bucs getting quality depth along the interior. Given that Gilkey has failed miserably at C, Allen got injured/cut, and Warren was seen as option 3 at best before about a week ago, we are looking at a G/C.

      I dont know Booker. They sure made zero effort in free agency to address the issue. Now that everyone can see how bad we are they are scrambling to do something. If you look objectively at their management of the OL only one word describes it. Incompetence. Right now Penn, Larsen, Zuttah, Joseph, and Dotson would be way better than what we have. If they would have just replaced Larsen and Joseph we would be in much better shape and we would not have been forced to invest so much into our OL the last two years with zero results thus far. Gross negligent incompetence is the only way to describe it.And we are apparently starting our rookie Smith at LT, who absolutely nobody thought was going to be able to play that spot and we are starting a rookie D3 player at RG? WTF man. This is embarrassing as a Bucs fan.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2847

          I guess Andy Levitre wasn’t good enough for us?  Falcons gave a 6th + unnamed future pick to get him from the Titans. He’s more a ZBS guy than the mauler-type Bostad likes, so was expendable…

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 209

      I think D. Smith and Marpet look promising. Spending 2 out of the first 3 picks isn’t exactly doing nothing. The problem is what Lovie/Licht inherited. Yeah, Collins was a mistake, but they corrected it. Zuttah was a little mistake. The real problems left on the OL are the old, warn out guys – E. Smith and Mankins, and they’re getting worse. Mankins was a desperation move – but it was a desperate situation. At least he can mentor the young guys. I say next year we draft a DE in the first (if a guy we like is available) and then 2 interior OL in the next 3 rounds. If we trade Glennon, we'll have an extra pick at around round 3. Hopefully, Dougie has a good season and we re-sign him and don't have to spend a second day pick on a RB. Still, it will take until the season after for these guys to mature and develop together. So, we're looking at 2 more seasons before they are above average. By that time, Winton will be in his 3rd season (hopefully still in Koetter's system) and I would expect the Bucs to make a serious run.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3392

      GA, I get what you are saying about FA, but what was really out there this offseason? I think the one player we were linked with is the backup RT from Dallas who got paid an utterly insane amount of $ (Parnell). Wizniewsi was another. I'm not on the same page with on Donovan Smith. I do think it's fair to give him a shot at LT first since that's where he played. Even though he doesn't have all the things you look for, he's got a lot of them. I think a lot of the problems people see can be cleaned up with coaching. And so far, I think he's the least of the issues on the OL. Interior is the part that worries me the most.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2188

      Agree both Donovan and Marpet look very promising. They have the strength and talent to be good players, which is more than I can say for last year’s OL. I mean D. Smith has Marcus McNeil like size and ability and Marpet is a nasty player in the trenches. They’re going to make mistakes but they’ve got the upside you want. Dotson and Gosder are both solid as well. C is still a concern. 

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    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Agree both Donovan and Marpet look very promising. They have the strength and talent to be good players, which is more than I can say for last year's OL. I mean D. Smith has Marcus McNeil like size and ability and Marpet is a nasty player in the trenches. They're going to make mistakes but they've got the upside you want. Dotson and Gosder are both solid as well. C is still a concern.

      Hopefully that will be are line before too long.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      GA, I get what you are saying about FA, but what was really out there this offseason? I think the one player we were linked with is the backup RT from Dallas who got paid an utterly insane amount of $ (Parnell). Wizniewsi was another. I'm not on the same page with on Donovan Smith. I do think it's fair to give him a shot at LT first since that's where he played. Even though he doesn't have all the things you look for, he's got a lot of them. I think a lot of the problems people see can be cleaned up with coaching. And so far, I think he's the least of the issues on the OL. Interior is the part that worries me the most.

      I hope you are right about Smith, and Orlando Franklin was the only FA who I was really smitten with. His ability to play guard or tackle would have been very good for us. That being said, he signed immediately when free agency started. Must have already had that deal tentatively agreed to. You are right, though. We fans winge about the FO not making moves when sometimes there are just not a lot of options out there. I am just in a bit of panic mode after watching our OL this pre-season.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 975

      We fans winge about the FO not making moves when sometimes there are just not a lot of options out there.

      L+L's problem right now IMO is that they can people way to quickly. When they first arrived they decided the OL was not up to snuff so they pretty much canned the whole lot. But guess what? If the starters are not up to snuff but they stay starters, it means the backups are even worse. What we should have done is brought back our starters on reduced money and then brought in their replacements.  If the replacements don't work out, as they did not then at least we are no worse than last year. Not only that, we did it twice. Marpet and Smith might be the future, but what harm would there be for example in resigning Joseph for reasonable money as a backup? Instead when someone goes down we are screwed again because we canned everybody.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2847

      Assuming Koetter will transition us to a ZBS over time, he would love to have Zuttah right now.We had a shot at Andy Levitre, former Pro-Bowl ZBS G who struggled after the Titans moved to a mauler-style O'line under Whisenhunt's regime last season. Falcons got him this year for a couple late-round picks...

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 704

      Assuming Koetter will transition us to a ZBS over time, he would love to have Zuttah right now.We had a shot at Andy Levitre, former Pro-Bowl ZBS G who struggled after the Titans moved to a mauler-style O'line under Whisenhunt's regime last season. Falcons got him this year for a couple late-round picks...

      Koetter runs more of a power run scheme than he does the zone blocking scheme.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1385

      I can’t imagine that the Bucs would have been the Titan’s choice of a trading partner since both of us really want to win that first game. I suspect there was zero chance he would have been traded to us unless we really overpaid.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Assuming Koetter will transition us to a ZBS over time, he would love to have Zuttah right now.We had a shot at Andy Levitre, former Pro-Bowl ZBS G who struggled after the Titans moved to a mauler-style O'line under Whisenhunt's regime last season. Falcons got him this year for a couple late-round picks...

      Why are you assuming that Koetter is transitioning us to a ZBS over time? He didn't run it in Atlanta, and pretty sure he didn't for the Jags.Not only that, but if so, we just wasted the Donovan Smith pick, because no-way, no-how is a zone player. I'd be surprised if we had any interest in Levitre. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 176

      I dont assume its the talent as much as I fear the OL coach should’ve been fired in the offseason as many news outlets called for.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 794

      Donald Penn was pretty good.So was Jeremy Zuttah. So was Revis.But we needed to cut those guys to get what's his face, and what's his face and we wasted a 4th and 5th on a couple of OL.Not a very good year for the dips@#t GM. Honestly I was OK with keeping Dom, I think most of his dumb moves came from giving into stupid Schiano - and Dom at least had a few plays he could point to as a success. Of course that's assuming the team didn't tank last year on purpose to try to get the top pick since they so badly needed a QB and that's the only way to get one. If that was the goal then gold stars for everyone... and I'm not being sarcastic. Still if the goal was to get the top pick you could have done so without wasting those picks on players no one ever heard of and were over drafted. You could have just not played them if they were too good, just like the team played McCown over Glennon.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 794

      I dont assume its the talent as much as I fear the OL coach should've been fired in the offseason as many news outlets called for.

      If the talent was good then they'd still be here... the fact you have that huge turnover tells you everything you need to know about the talent.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2275

      Dominik was a terrible GM before Schiano..It wasn’t until Schiano we actually drafted decent players. He still gave out terrible contracts which I bet Schiano didn’t have much say in.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 10626

      Dominik was a terrible GM before Schiano..It wasn't until Schiano we actually drafted decent players. He still gave out terrible contracts which I bet Schiano didn't have much say in.

      Barron?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2188

      Dominick and Hickey were horrible talent evaluators. McCoy might be their only successful draft pick and any fan could’ve picked him or Suh, whichever was available. Ok LVD was a good pick too. That Barron pick was disgusting. They totally neglected the OL but I have faith in Licht to get that fixed. Donovan and Marpet is a great start.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Dominick and Hickey were horrible talent evaluators. McCoy might be their only successful draft pick and any fan could've picked him or Suh, whichever was available. Ok LVD was a good pick too. That Barron pick was disgusting. They totally neglected the OL but I have faith in Licht to get that fixed. Donovan and Marpet is a great start.

      Not every fan. Lots hated McCoy; heck, JP Peterson criticized him all throughout the draft process "not enough tackles."

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 794

      Dominick and Hickey were horrible talent evaluators. McCoy might be their only successful draft pick and any fan could've picked him or Suh, whichever was available. Ok LVD was a good pick too. That Barron pick was disgusting. They totally neglected the OL but I have faith in Licht to get that fixed. Donovan and Marpet is a great start.

      2 best in the NFL players is actually a very good track record by Bucs standards. Also Fat Freeman was the proper pick, he just fell off the rails - but they evaluated him correctly - he had arguably the 2 best seasons ever by a Bucs QB in 2010 and 2012. The team also got Doug Martin, which again was the proper pick.Barron was a terrible pick I hated at the time, but then again most people had the Bucs taking Blackmon or Claiborne and remarkably Barron was a better pick than those two. Obviously people will say they should have taken Luke, because you know it's the future and that's what people do, however they had just drafted Foster who had a good rookie season. But Barron was still a reach, a huge reach, I didn't see anyone having him go in the top 10 and as Schiano said they drafted him to stop one player, Graham. It was a really stupid pick.In 2013 the Bucs trading for Revis was a great pick - if you don't believe me go look at the 2013 draft, it could be the worst 1st round I've ever seen, nearly every player has been a bust. Anywho if the dummies don't cut him and spend the money on a bunch of terrible FAs, then the Bucs have one of the best corners in the league still on the team - and yes you still need good corners even in a Tampa 2.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 648

      Dominick and Hickey were horrible talent evaluators. McCoy might be their only successful draft pick and any fan could've picked him or Suh, whichever was available. Ok LVD was a good pick too. That Barron pick was disgusting. They totally neglected the OL but I have faith in Licht to get that fixed. Donovan and Marpet is a great start.

      2 best in the NFL players is actually a very good track record by Bucs standards. Also Fat Freeman was the proper pick, he just fell off the rails - but they evaluated him correctly - he had arguably the 2 best seasons ever by a Bucs QB in 2010 and 2012. The team also got Doug Martin, which again was the proper pick.Barron was a terrible pick I hated at the time, but then again most people had the Bucs taking Blackmon or Claiborne and remarkably Barron was a better pick than those two. Obviously people will say they should have taken Luke, because you know it's the future and that's what people do, however they had just drafted Foster who had a good rookie season. But Barron was still a reach, a huge reach, I didn't see anyone having him go in the top 10 and as Schiano said they drafted him to stop one player, Graham. It was a really stupid pick.In 2013 the Bucs trading for Revis was a great pick - if you don't believe me go look at the 2013 draft, it could be the worst 1st round I've ever seen, nearly every player has been a bust. Anywho if the dummies don't cut him and spend the money on a bunch of terrible FAs, then the Bucs have one of the best corners in the league still on the team - and yes you still need good corners even in a Tampa 2.

      Trading a 1st round pick on an injured cornerback on a team with no talent, spending a crap load of money along with the 1st round pick.. Yeah I wouldn't call that a great pick. You don't build a team around a secondary.

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