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    • spurzo

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      Post count: 214

      I’ve seen quite a few ppl mention that they don’t believe the hype around Vernon.  Just wondering if anybody has any actual reason against trying to sign him?Here's Vernon burning Tyron Smith just to start things off.https://twitter.com/VeteranScout/status/668951019858997249Here's another little PFF blurb on Vernon explaining that Fins should let him walk but that's because they are actually in cap hell due to awful contracts previously handed out."The Dolphins are in the unenviable position of being forced to keep their checkbook in their pockets because of the salary cap. It seems highly unlikely at this stage that Miami will be able to re-sign one of the league’s premium pass rushers who is still only 25 years of age. Vernon smashed the single-season record for QB hits in a season, and added a further 10 sacks for a season total of 40 knockdowns. He was consistent, too, adding a further 41 hurries for a total of 81. That figure was bettered by only Michael Bennett amongst defensive ends. Vernon finished third in overall grade (92.5) among edge defenders in 2015, second in the pass rushing department (90.7), and 12th against the run (84.9). He’s the top free agent for a reason, and can anticipate a big pay day once March 9 rolls around."He's 25 and just entering his prime, which is RARE for a free agent pass rusher and funny enough that's just what we're looking for and we have a TON of cap space.  He probably costs around 15 mil per season.  5 yr 75 mil with around 45 guaranteed is probably what it would cost.  We could load up most of the money for the first 3 years which is when our next big batch of contracts would be coming up.  So I'm asking why shouldn't we be going for this guy?

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2560

      I’m not sure how others feel but I wonder if he’s as good as the numbers. How much did Wake help him? And what if there is no Wake there?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 950

      Vernon’s somebody I actually really like. He’s gotten better every year and I really think he has a nice rounding out to his game. I wouldn’t be shocked if we make a run at him.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2560

      Vernon's somebody I actually really like. He's gotten better every year and I really think he has a nice rounding out to his game. I wouldn't be shocked if we make a run at him.

      IMHO I become more excited about Vernon if we also upgrade the other DE spot. Spence and Vernon? Ahhh now that could be something.

    • williebrowntown

      Member
      Post count: 493

      Vernon's somebody I actually really like. He's gotten better every year and I really think he has a nice rounding out to his game. I wouldn't be shocked if we make a run at him.

      Gotten better every year? 2013 was his best year, his only noticeable year for that matter. You guys do realize that in 4 more games this year (16) he only had half a sack more than Jacques Smith who only played in 12 games, 7.5 to 7. He also had Cam Wake and Suh on the line who always drew the attention. Yes, I understand he'll have McCoy and hopefully Noah Spence  here and that's great but Vernon is way overhyped. He's the best out of a weak class of FA. To quote Raheem Morris, he's the tallest midget and someone will go wild and pay him all kinds of stupid amounts of money and I hope it's not the bucs.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3392

      Vernon's somebody I actually really like. He's gotten better every year and I really think he has a nice rounding out to his game. I wouldn't be shocked if we make a run at him.

      Gotten better every year? 2013 was his best year, his only noticeable year for that matter. You guys do realize that in 4 more games this year (16) he only had half a sack more than Jacques Smith who only played in 12 games, 7.5 to 7. He also had Cam Wake and Suh on the line who always drew the attention. Yes, I understand he'll have McCoy and hopefully Noah Spence  here and that's great but Vernon is way overhyped. He's the best out of a weak class of FA. To quote Raheem Morris, he's the tallest midget and someone will go wild and pay him all kinds of stupid amounts of money and I hope it's not the bucs.

      There's no doubt that he'll be overpaid, and it won't be justified. That said, I think in this case you are putting too much emphasis on sacks and not enough on pressure. Bucs were actually middle of the pack in sacks last year. Did it look like it? Of course it didn't - it felt like most of the time guys had all day. TVernon may not be finishing plays, but if he's getting hits on QBs and pressure, that counts for a lot. I think sacks are a decent proxy for pressure, but not in every case. This is one of those exceptions.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1271

      From what I saw from Vernon, he’s a beast getting around the edge, but he relies more on speed than hand use. An interesting stat I heard on him last year is that he lead the league in rouging the passer penalties. Now that says 2 things, 1 he’s around the QB a lot, and 2 he’s a bit of a hot head. It’s always worrisome to make a hot head one of the highest paid players on your team, especially for a young team. You end up with the Bengals. I really think he’s going to end up on the Pats, just because he killed them last year and he fit’s their 3-4 better than our 4-3.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3341

      I'm not sure how others feel but I wonder if he's as good as the numbers. How much did Wake help him? And what if there is no Wake there?

      Vernon had 2 sacks in 7 games with Wake in the line-upVernon had 5.5 sacks in 9 games with Wake out of the line-upI would guess the pressures were up as well.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1098

      Some people are so tied down by sacks as if it’s the only measure to grading a pass-rushers success. If he's smashing single season numbers for QB hits and having that pedigree of hurries then that means he's getting consistent pressure. J Smith isn't even on the same level as Vernon. He was a splash play guy who lacked the consistent drive. Every great D-Line needs a workhorse always threatening the edge.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 898

      Vernon's somebody I actually really like. He's gotten better every year and I really think he has a nice rounding out to his game. I wouldn't be shocked if we make a run at him.

      Gotten better every year? 2013 was his best year, his only noticeable year for that matter. You guys do realize that in 4 more games this year (16) he only had half a sack more than Jacques Smith who only played in 12 games, 7.5 to 7. He also had Cam Wake and Suh on the line who always drew the attention. Yes, I understand he'll have McCoy and hopefully Noah Spence  here and that's great but Vernon is way overhyped. He's the best out of a weak class of FA. To quote Raheem Morris, he's the tallest midget and someone will go wild and pay him all kinds of stupid amounts of money and I hope it's not the bucs.

      Wake tore his achilles in week 8.  Vernon had 57 pressures in the 8 weeks after Wake went down.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 898

      Some people are so tied down by sacks as if it's the only measure to grading a pass-rushers success. If he's smashing single season numbers for QB hits and having that pedigree of hurries then that means he's getting consistent pressure. J Smith isn't even on the same level as Vernon. He was a splash play guy who lacked the consistent drive. Every great D-Line needs a workhorse always threatening the edge.

      Ya pretty funny.  It's that type of stubborn mindset that led us to allow Michael Bennett to leave without even offering him a contract.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      A writer from the Miami Herald (Armando Salguero) was on PFT live on the radio and believes that the Dolphins will tag Vernon if they can’t reach a deal…but, he thinks they will reach a deal before that comes to fruition. Salguero’s basic attitude was that there was very little chance Vernon wouldn’t be a Dolphin next year.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      Vernon's somebody I actually really like. He's gotten better every year and I really think he has a nice rounding out to his game. I wouldn't be shocked if we make a run at him.

      Gotten better every year? 2013 was his best year, his only noticeable year for that matter. You guys do realize that in 4 more games this year (16) he only had half a sack more than Jacques Smith who only played in 12 games, 7.5 to 7. He also had Cam Wake and Suh on the line who always drew the attention. Yes, I understand he'll have McCoy and hopefully Noah Spence  here and that's great but Vernon is way overhyped. He's the best out of a weak class of FA. To quote Raheem Morris, he's the tallest midget and someone will go wild and pay him all kinds of stupid amounts of money and I hope it's not the bucs.

      Wake tore his achilles in week 8.  Vernon had 57 pressures in the 8 weeks after Wake went down.

      I have serious doubt that pressure stat is anywhere close to accurate. Are you getting that from PFF? 

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 898

      Vernon's somebody I actually really like. He's gotten better every year and I really think he has a nice rounding out to his game. I wouldn't be shocked if we make a run at him.

      Gotten better every year? 2013 was his best year, his only noticeable year for that matter. You guys do realize that in 4 more games this year (16) he only had half a sack more than Jacques Smith who only played in 12 games, 7.5 to 7. He also had Cam Wake and Suh on the line who always drew the attention. Yes, I understand he'll have McCoy and hopefully Noah Spence  here and that's great but Vernon is way overhyped. He's the best out of a weak class of FA. To quote Raheem Morris, he's the tallest midget and someone will go wild and pay him all kinds of stupid amounts of money and I hope it's not the bucs.

      Wake tore his achilles in week 8.  Vernon had 57 pressures in the 8 weeks after Wake went down.

      I have serious doubt that pressure stat is anywhere close to accurate. Are you getting that from PFF?

      Sure is

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      Did you miss the questions GT and I had about that pff blurb here:https://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php/topic,1330696.msg2524161.html#msg2524161

    • williebrowntown

      Member
      Post count: 493

      Some people are so tied down by sacks as if it's the only measure to grading a pass-rushers success. If he's smashing single season numbers for QB hits and having that pedigree of hurries then that means he's getting consistent pressure. J Smith isn't even on the same level as Vernon. He was a splash play guy who lacked the consistent drive. Every great D-Line needs a workhorse always threatening the edge.

      Right, I agree J. Smith is a 1 trick pony and I used the sack number to try to being people back down to earth. I get how important pressure is i just don't think Vernon that great. I also think Noah Spence will come in here and be that work horse and free up the double teams that McCoy got and that'll produce just as many pressures if not more. All I'm saying is everyone every year gets hung up on player X and player Y Because they're the best in the FA pool. Vernon has done it one year that impressed me and another year where he has 2 all pro guys on the line with him even though one of for them went down half way through the year he was still not the offense main priority. I'd rather save the money and invest in our own guys and draft an edge rusher with a ceiling higher Vernon, Spence

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      and added a further 10 sacks for

      nfl.com has him listed at 7.5 sacks.  PFF has him for 2.5 extra sacks?  Wonder how that plays into the other stats like pressures?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3341

      and added a further 10 sacks for

      nfl.com has him listed at 7.5 sacks.  PFF has him for 2.5 extra sacks?  Wonder how that plays into the other stats like pressures?

      PFF doesn't give half-sacks in their stats.  I'm sure that's why there is a difference.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 698

      I would sign Vernon. he’s young 25 and has continued to grow along the last 3 seasons. His pressures were up after the half way point last year. Which to me means he was on a mission to set the tone of the defense after injuries and Suh disappeared.I bookend him with Spence @ #1 in the Draft for the next 5-6 years. And then I sign Robert Ayers as my situational guy. Unless, Mario Williams is released by the Bills then I bookend him with Vernon and still draft Spence @#1..... And let Spence take a situational pass rusher spot and let him develop! I may still sign Ayers also.....And in the 3rd/4th round I draft Nassib or Kaufusi if they are still there. Or Oakman in the 4th/5th round if they are gone!If I'm Licht I load up on DE's to the point where Koetter&Smith decide who stays and who goes by how hard they work and play!Then if the DB's can't do their job then you know pressure wasn't the problem! Which I will say is always the problem (Lack there of).

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2445

      Vernon is #1 on my wishlist followed closely by Mario Williams. Yea theyre the main stream DE choices right now, and they both have perceived risks associated with them but I’ve been sold on both as great impact additions for the Bucs.Crossing my fingers we land one of them, I think the Bucs will be much improved if we do. If we happen to get both then its go time for this team.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 698

      Vernon is #1 on my wishlist followed closely by Mario Williams. Yea theyre the main stream DE choices right now, and they both have perceived risks associated with them but I've been sold on both as great impact additions for the Bucs.Crossing my fingers we land one of them, I think the Bucs will be much improved if we do. If we happen to get both then its go time for this team.

      ^^^ This!!~I would be so excited for this Pepsi!I would probably even take JPP and Vernon.... It would all come down to what Mario Williams wants $$$$ wise.....Then still Draft Spence @#1.....

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      PFF doesn't give half-sacks in their stats.  I'm sure that's why there is a difference.

      thanks.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      Vernon > all Bucs DE’s.If available for Licht's price - I see no reason in not bringing him in as long as the dline coach thinks this guy is ready for the next step.  Talented, Young and Healthy in our primary position of need on the Dline.Rookie D'Ends take a couple of years to find their groove.  I'd like a mid-stream vet at the position (as well as safety)Ideally, we get a DE, S, CB in the draft and pair them up with a DE, S in FA (and our CB's currently on the roster.)  Need some mentors.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 898

      Did you miss the questions GT and I had about that pff blurb here:https://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php/topic,1330696.msg2524161.html#msg2524161

      My understating is that PFF defines a pressure as Qb Hits, Hurries and Sacks.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1271

      Vernon is #1 on my wishlist followed closely by Mario Williams. Yea theyre the main stream DE choices right now, and they both have perceived risks associated with them but I've been sold on both as great impact additions for the Bucs.Crossing my fingers we land one of them, I think the Bucs will be much improved if we do. If we happen to get both then its go time for this team.

      ^^^ This!!~I would be so excited for this Pepsi!I would probably even take JPP and Vernon.... It would all come down to what Mario Williams wants $$$$ wise.....Then still Draft Spence @#1.....

      Mario Williams is too old and beat up. Maybe one really good year left in him, and who knows which one. Not saying he'll be bad, just not worth his contract.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 295

      That’s waaaay too much money for him

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2445

      Vernon is #1 on my wishlist followed closely by Mario Williams. Yea theyre the main stream DE choices right now, and they both have perceived risks associated with them but I've been sold on both as great impact additions for the Bucs.Crossing my fingers we land one of them, I think the Bucs will be much improved if we do. If we happen to get both then its go time for this team.

      ^^^ This!!~I would be so excited for this Pepsi!I would probably even take JPP and Vernon.... It would all come down to what Mario Williams wants $$$$ wise.....Then still Draft Spence @#1.....

      Mario Williams is too old and beat up. Maybe one really good year left in him, and who knows which one. Not saying he'll be bad, just not worth his contract.

      Well a couple things to consider. One really good Mario Williams year left means a fantastic year left at 4-3 DE. 2-3 mediocre Mario Williams years after that means hes still the best DE on the team, a good veteran presence and probably still applying good pressure at key moments in games. If hes released we'll be creating a completely new contract for him while hes still getting some money from the Bills. He is old, he did have a low sack season, its possible the contract would be not breaking the bank and would make sense for both us and Mario.If we werent wasting Gerald McCoys years already Id say pass, but part of the problem is we have one of the top DTs in the game and we're consistently failing to surround him with proven guys. At some point we have to pay to get the job done.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1271

      Vernon is #1 on my wishlist followed closely by Mario Williams. Yea theyre the main stream DE choices right now, and they both have perceived risks associated with them but I've been sold on both as great impact additions for the Bucs.Crossing my fingers we land one of them, I think the Bucs will be much improved if we do. If we happen to get both then its go time for this team.

      ^^^ This!!~I would be so excited for this Pepsi!I would probably even take JPP and Vernon.... It would all come down to what Mario Williams wants $$$$ wise.....Then still Draft Spence @#1.....

      Mario Williams is too old and beat up. Maybe one really good year left in him, and who knows which one. Not saying he'll be bad, just not worth his contract.

      Well a couple things to consider. One really good Mario Williams year left means a fantastic year left at 4-3 DE. 2-3 mediocre Mario Williams years after that means hes still the best DE on the team, a good veteran presence and probably still applying good pressure at key moments in games. If hes released we'll be creating a completely new contract for him while hes still getting some money from the Bills. He is old, he did have a low sack season, its possible the contract would be not breaking the bank and would make sense for both us and Mario.If we werent wasting Gerald McCoys years already Id say pass, but part of the problem is we have one of the top DTs in the game and we're consistently failing to surround him with proven guys. At some point we have to pay to get the job done.

      Theres a lot of good D-Ends in this draft. I'd rather watch one of them develop than watch an old Mario Williams slow down.

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