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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 265

      When are the coaches going to see we have no pass rush from the front 4?  A consistently solid one?Draft a defensive end. Period. Corners will get roasted like rotisserie chickens out there if a QB has four seconds to stand back there and pick his target. Stop being silly and draft a defensive end. Bob Ayers is not the answer. His foot is in the edge of that cliff...and Gholston isn't going to be doubled. Bucs have GMac and that's it. And he gives up on plays because he is wore out from the constant doubles because the ends are "wave riders". No to a CB.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      When are the coaches going to see we have no pass rush from the front 4?  A consistently solid one?Draft a defensive end. Period. Corners will get roasted like rotisserie chickens out there if a QB has four seconds to stand back there and pick his target. Stop being silly and draft a defensive end. Bob Ayers is not the answer. His foot is in the edge of that cliff...and Gholston isn't going to be doubled. Bucs have GMac and that's it. And he gives up on plays because he is wore out from the constant doubles because the ends are "wave riders". No to a CB.

      I am with ya B-man. But I am not thrilled with the DE's in this draft. I don't see any Lawrence Taylors or JJ Watts.I am not sold on Bosa. Although I guess I would take a shot if he was there at #9.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Bosa isn’t twitchy. But he is a pass rusher with some good game tape. Kentucky is an iffy project because of a lot of reasons that have been beaten into the dirt. Buckner is my guy. Would love his presence on the line. They are all projects. But they are all necessity. No other way to look at it, as the Bucs have ZERO in the trenches. Ayers gets hurt and we will all be crying on Sundays like we have been for over a decade. Still no pass rush. It's the curse of Simeon Rice. Or Gaines Adams. "Got big shoes to fill..."Bucs need pass rushers. Draft three of them!!  And only one or two people thought Watt was going to become the most dominant pass rusher in the league. Well...nobody thought that really. So take a chance. But draft a defensive end for chrissakes!!  Bucs have no pass rush. Bucs have no pass rush. Bucs have no pass rush. Pull their heads out!!

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    • bucsnbr1

      Participant
      Post count: 309

      Think they should get BPA either way. This should include a defensive lineman because there are a lot of them this year. If they can’t figure out a front four pass rush then they better use more 3-4 or go blitze heavy. we can at least be a serviceable defense without a four man rush. We already have a good run stopping D. Just need to make more happen on passing downs. Two plays per game would make a world of difference.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 717

      No doubt need pass rush, but do you pass on superior talent in hopes to get it? I don’t see elite pass rush from anyone in this draft. You have some possibilities, but it’s quite a risk in R1.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 495

      When are the coaches going to see we have no pass rush from the front 4?  A consistently solid one?Draft a defensive end. Period. Corners will get roasted like rotisserie chickens out there if a QB has four seconds to stand back there and pick his target. Stop being silly and draft a defensive end. Bob Ayers is not the answer. His foot is in the edge of that cliff...and Gholston isn't going to be doubled. Bucs have GMac and that's it. And he gives up on plays because he is wore out from the constant doubles because the ends are "wave riders". No to a CB.

      I think that's where just about everyone stands in a perfect world.  We're only talking VH3 or Stanley because there's a possibility there won't be a pass rusher worth the #9 pick when we get there.  If there's a guy we think is worth a top 15 pick there then maybe we pull the trigger.  It just depends on what their board looks like.  If they see Ogbah or Spence as 30 to 35 range players you can't take them at 9 just because you need a DE.  That's how the Chiefs ended up with Tyson Jackson. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Where did JJ Watt get selected?You never know. Guys can flip a switch and take it to the next level. If JJ played in college like he has as a Pro, there would be dead offensive linemen everywhere. Take the best pass rusher available. VHIII is burnt toast without one, superior talent or not. That's a fact. Pass rush first. Or pass protection. We have the QB already. But don't pick secondary without being aware of the situation. VH will be ATV out there. A short CB getting roasted. Truth. Bosa may be a monster as a pro. Nobody knows. Roll the dice. It's not like they haven't bombed out in the first before. It will happen to someone this year as well. Draft pass rushers. Round 1, 2, and 3. Load up!Sick of watching crappy QBs handling their business against first stringers. Our first stringers. Because they suck!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      The Super Bowl MVP loved his Molly. Take a chance. Guys can change. If they don't, next year when a guy like Mario Williams comes free, you go balls out to get him!!!Still sick over that.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Also, I do not like the idea of Rankins as a solution to this problem. He may well be the next…whoever, but not another DT please. Edge rushers is what they need. Make a move and get Buckner!! He may be the next Gholston, but he may be the next Watt. He is MASSIVE.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      Ogbah or Lawson early. Correa is another option. Judon or the Montana kid late.

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    • JonMott

      Participant
      Post count: 319

      HAHA, name me one pass rusher more talented than Hargreaves besides bosa or buckner(who won’t be their).

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      HAHA, name me one pass rusher more talented than Hargreaves besides bosa or buckner(who won't be their).

      Ha ha, name me one corner who can cover an elite wideout for 4 plus seconds effectively. Deion retired already.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Pass rush and secondary play are linked. The strength of one shores up the weakness of another. This "flip the switch" nonsense is comical. Classic Boid. Over and over and over you demonstrate your shallow knowledge of football. You don't pass on an elite corner for an average...possibly above average pass rusher. Especially in this draft. Your second and third round ends aren't to far away from your guys after Bosa and Buckner. If those guys are gone and VH3 is there, you take him. I was on the Spence bandwagon for a bit but I'm wavering after hearing about the poor interviews. I can't see the logic in passing on a player like VH3 for a gamble like Spence. Remember, Verner and Grimes are probably not in the team's long term plans. There will be a decision on Banks that must be made as well. VH3 would be a nice fit and we can find ends in rounds 2 and 3.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      I’d say that a better pass rusher will be at 39 vs the same corner at 39.Get the talent in the top ten.  Whichever position we don't get at 9, lean towards at 39 (or package some picks and move up to get that guy...Either way - pass rush is going to be addressed with a project.

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    • bucsnbr1

      Participant
      Post count: 309

      Boid, what about the possibility that the Bucs could look at the draft and believe that the best DE is a guy with a second round grade? Maybe they have Bosa rated in the top 5 but if he’s gone the next best guy may be rated at 30. Why should we pass on better players especially when we have lots of needs aside from DE? Then suppose we get lesser rated players….what if our biggest hole next year in CB but there are tons of impact DEs available? So then do we just draft all CBs since it’s our newest need?They need to get players that help this year but I see no reason to pass on players they see a great future with.......is there a Dion Sanders in this draft? Probably not. Less probable then that would be thinking we can force a Michael Strannah career by reaching on a DE that doesn't have the physical tools.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1784

      Agree with Boid. Our defense is worthless without pass rush. Gotta get to the Qb if the secondary is going to have any kind of success.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 855

      Pass rush and secondary play are linked. The strength of one shores up the weakness of another. This "flip the switch" nonsense is comical. Classic Boid. Over and over and over you demonstrate your shallow knowledge of football. You don't pass on an elite corner for an average...possibly above average pass rusher. Especially in this draft. Your second and third round ends aren't to far away from your guys after Bosa and Buckner. If those guys are gone and VH3 is there, you take him. I was on the Spence bandwagon for a bit but I'm wavering after hearing about the poor interviews. I can't see the logic in passing on a player like VH3 for a gamble like Spence. Remember, Verner and Grimes are probably not in the team's long term plans. There will be a decision on Banks that must be made as well. VH3 would be a nice fit and we can find ends in rounds 2 and 3.

      Agreed. I understand DL is more important and has a bigger impact but the value simply isn’t there. Passing up on a true #1 CB for an average DE prospect would piss me off.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Agree with Boid. Our defense is worthless without pass rush. Gotta get to the Qb if the secondary is going to have any kind of success.

      That three step drop, quick slant was killing us last year and perfectly highlights why the secondary factors into pass rush. Even if we had a tremendous D-line, you're probably not getting to a QB on a three step drop. Take it away and it's a completely different story. Now, the CBs have disrupted the timing and the QB must work through his progressions. This takes time, leading to greater possibility of your pass rushers getting to him. I don't understand how even a casual fan can't understand this. Drafting a CB or a DE will help the defense. It boils down to the quality of the defender available at 9. I think VH3 grades out higher than any DE after Bosa and Buckner.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 698

      Agree with Boid. Our defense is worthless without pass rush. Gotta get to the Qb if the secondary is going to have any kind of success.

      That three step drop, quick slant was killing us last year and perfectly highlights why the secondary factors into pass rush. Even if we had a tremendous D-line, you're probably not getting to a QB on a three step drop. Take it away and it's a completely different story. Now, the CBs have disrupted the timing and the QB must work through his progressions. This takes time, leading to greater possibility of your pass rushers getting to him. I don't understand how even a casual fan can't understand this. Drafting a CB or a DE will help the defense. It boils down to the quality of the defender available at 9. I think VH3 grades out higher than any DE after Bosa and Buckner.

      Did you read the article about Verner and what he said our DB's responsibility was last year per Lovie Smith?.......

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 746

      I’m not trying to throw away a top ten pick chasing talent that isn’t there.  If they can get a pro bowler at any position I’m fine with it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1858

      The top defences have elite talent on the DL and in the secondary.  You need both.  That’s why the Bucs will take the best player on their board at that slot.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Agree with Boid. Our defense is worthless without pass rush. Gotta get to the Qb if the secondary is going to have any kind of success.

      That three step drop, quick slant was killing us last year and perfectly highlights why the secondary factors into pass rush. Even if we had a tremendous D-line, you're probably not getting to a QB on a three step drop. Take it away and it's a completely different story. Now, the CBs have disrupted the timing and the QB must work through his progressions. This takes time, leading to greater possibility of your pass rushers getting to him. I don't understand how even a casual fan can't understand this. Drafting a CB or a DE will help the defense. It boils down to the quality of the defender available at 9. I think VH3 grades out higher than any DE after Bosa and Buckner.

      Did you read the article about Verner and what he said our DB's responsibility was last year per Lovie Smith?.......

      I did. Doesn't change anything with regards to the concept of how the play of a CB impacts the effectiveness of the DL. For the Bucs specifically, I'd much rather hear that our issues stemmed from scheme and not the skill of the player. This doesn't mean that we are set at the CB position. I highly doubt that Verner and Grimes will be Buccaneers in 2018.....chances are that Banks won't be either.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 698

      Agree with Boid. Our defense is worthless without pass rush. Gotta get to the Qb if the secondary is going to have any kind of success.

      That three step drop, quick slant was killing us last year and perfectly highlights why the secondary factors into pass rush. Even if we had a tremendous D-line, you're probably not getting to a QB on a three step drop. Take it away and it's a completely different story. Now, the CBs have disrupted the timing and the QB must work through his progressions. This takes time, leading to greater possibility of your pass rushers getting to him. I don't understand how even a casual fan can't understand this. Drafting a CB or a DE will help the defense. It boils down to the quality of the defender available at 9. I think VH3 grades out higher than any DE after Bosa and Buckner.

      Did you read the article about Verner and what he said our DB's responsibility was last year per Lovie Smith?.......

      I did. Doesn't change anything with regards to the concept of how the play of a CB impacts the effectiveness of the DL. For the Bucs specifically, I'd much rather hear that our issues stemmed from scheme and not the skill of the player. This doesn't mean that we are set at the CB position. I highly doubt that Verner and Grimes will be Buccaneers in 2018.....chances are that Banks won't be either.

      It does say that the DB's were specifically TOLD to not worry about the SLANTS!!!! That the LB'ers would be there to assist! So, they stayed on the Deep ball.But, due to our DLine not getting pressure....Our DB's out deep! Our LB'ers in their own coverages and rushes! The Slant was left alone! The scheme of course was flawed and the DB's were then pointed out as the culprit! When in fact it was everyone doing a Chinese fire drill on the field. https://www.pewterreport.com/articles/srs-fab-5-last-year-a-fiasco-for-banks-verner-why-couldnt-bucs-d-stop-the-slant/We get a pass rush! It lessens the time the QB has to decide what to do with the ball. And it allows your DB's to come up and play press and takes away the slant. And eventually the deep ball.I'm looking for a much more solid and overall Defense this year under Mike Smith and his ability of using players to the Best of their Abilities!

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    • jeebz116

      Participant
      Post count: 768

      Also, I do not like the idea of Rankins as a solution to this problem. He may well be the next...whoever, but not another DT please. Edge rushers is what they need. Make a move and get Buckner!! He may be the next Gholston, but he may be the next Watt. He is MASSIVE.

      Bro-tein-shake, Buckner is an interior guy, he's not an edge guy.My preference would be for Stanley, and if he's not there go Spence.Rankins is my fall back guy, I think he's actually a better pass rusher than Buckner.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      Pass rush and secondary play are linked. The strength of one shores up the weakness of another. This "flip the switch" nonsense is comical. Classic Boid. Over and over and over you demonstrate your shallow knowledge of football. You don't pass on an elite corner for an average...possibly above average pass rusher. Especially in this draft. Your second and third round ends aren't to far away from your guys after Bosa and Buckner. If those guys are gone and VH3 is there, you take him. I was on the Spence bandwagon for a bit but I'm wavering after hearing about the poor interviews. I can't see the logic in passing on a player like VH3 for a gamble like Spence. Remember, Verner and Grimes are probably not in the team's long term plans. There will be a decision on Banks that must be made as well. VH3 would be a nice fit and we can find ends in rounds 2 and 3.

      Agreed. I understand DL is more important and has a bigger impact but the value simply isn't there. Passing up on a true #1 CB for an average DE prospect would piss me off.

      You can find a very good DB in the Second round....But you still need a Top Tier Defensive End...Anybody who says there is not value in the first round is on crack...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Pass rush and secondary play are linked. The strength of one shores up the weakness of another. This "flip the switch" nonsense is comical. Classic Boid. Over and over and over you demonstrate your shallow knowledge of football. You don't pass on an elite corner for an average...possibly above average pass rusher. Especially in this draft. Your second and third round ends aren't to far away from your guys after Bosa and Buckner. If those guys are gone and VH3 is there, you take him. I was on the Spence bandwagon for a bit but I'm wavering after hearing about the poor interviews. I can't see the logic in passing on a player like VH3 for a gamble like Spence. Remember, Verner and Grimes are probably not in the team's long term plans. There will be a decision on Banks that must be made as well. VH3 would be a nice fit and we can find ends in rounds 2 and 3.

      Agreed. I understand DL is more important and has a bigger impact but the value simply isn't there. Passing up on a true #1 CB for an average DE prospect would piss me off.

      You can find a very good DB in the Second round....But you still need a Top Tier Defensive End...Anybody who says there is not value in the first round is on crack...

      The way I see it is like this:You have two premier pass rushers and two premier corners; Bosa/Buckner and Ramsey/VH3. I think you pick any one of those four with your first pick. Realistically, I think VH3 has the best shot of being there at #9 compared to the other 3. Once you get into round two, you can start looking at guys like Nassib, Calhoun, maybe Spence if he falls. Between our 1st and 2nd round picks, you're probably looking at guys like Apple, Fuller, Jackson and Alexander coming off the board. So, who would you rather roll with:Ogbah and someone like Artie Burns or Xavien Howard or VH3 and someone like Nassib, Shilique Calhoun or pray that Noah Spence is there?Should be an interesting draft.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 855

      Pass rush and secondary play are linked. The strength of one shores up the weakness of another. This "flip the switch" nonsense is comical. Classic Boid. Over and over and over you demonstrate your shallow knowledge of football. You don't pass on an elite corner for an average...possibly above average pass rusher. Especially in this draft. Your second and third round ends aren't to far away from your guys after Bosa and Buckner. If those guys are gone and VH3 is there, you take him. I was on the Spence bandwagon for a bit but I'm wavering after hearing about the poor interviews. I can't see the logic in passing on a player like VH3 for a gamble like Spence. Remember, Verner and Grimes are probably not in the team's long term plans. There will be a decision on Banks that must be made as well. VH3 would be a nice fit and we can find ends in rounds 2 and 3.

      Agreed. I understand DL is more important and has a bigger impact but the value simply isn't there. Passing up on a true #1 CB for an average DE prospect would piss me off.

      You can find a very good DB in the Second round....But you still need a Top Tier Defensive End...Anybody who says there is not value in the first round is on crack...

      There aren’t many “top tier defensive ends” in this draft class, keep up.Joey Bosa and Noah Spence are the only true sack artists everyone else is just regular DE prospects. This should be common knowledge now.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 235

      Make a move and get Buckner!! He may be the next Gholston, but he may be the next Watt. He is MASSIVE.

      Buckner is going to go top 3, losing future draft picks on one position for a guy that may or may not work out where we have multiple areas of need isn't how you build a championship team.  There is logic in investing top draft picks on the front seven on defense or the front five on offense, but not for the sake of chasing talent that just ain't going to be there to fill a need.  VH3 makes the most sense there at 9.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 717

      Boid, drafting a DE for the sake of drafting a DE is insane. Yes. We need one, but they just aren’t good this year. I’d rather get a premier corner and DE round 2. The ends at the top if 2 are just as good, but the same cannot be said for the DBs. I like Buckner alot too, and would jump all over him at 9, but he’s not gonna be there. Shame really, because I think he’s the kind of DE that Smith really likes.Here is my board, knowing full well its a pipe dream:1. Jack2. Ramsey3. Buckner4. VH5. Trade down6. CryPS, Bosa's a turd

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 493

      I really want to trade up draft Ramsey and let the current Dline play another year. Just can’t take passing up on a player that could be the next Sean Taylor or Patrick Peterson. Sign another vet or two in the second draft.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Boid, drafting a DE for the sake of drafting a DE is insane. Yes. We need one, but they just aren't good this year. I'd rather get a premier corner and DE round 2. The ends at the top if 2 are just as good, but the same cannot be said for the DBs. I like Buckner alot too, and would jump all over him at 9, but he's not gonna be there. Shame really, because I think he's the kind of DE that Smith really likes.Here is my board, knowing full well its a pipe dream:1. Jack2. Ramsey3. Buckner4. VH5. Trade down6. CryPS, Bosa's a turd

      Agree with 99% of that. I was big on Jack at one point. But I think the signing of that Raven LB blew that out of the water. I would draft Stanley, if those guys you mentioned were off the board.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      When are the coaches going to see we have no pass rush from the front 4?  A consistently solid one?Draft a defensive end. Period. Corners will get roasted like rotisserie chickens out there if a QB has four seconds to stand back there and pick his target. Stop being silly and draft a defensive end. Bob Ayers is not the answer. His foot is in the edge of that cliff...and Gholston isn't going to be doubled. Bucs have GMac and that's it. And he gives up on plays because he is wore out from the constant doubles because the ends are "wave riders". No to a CB.

      Agreed. No CBs.However, i doubt some of what you say.I dont see Big A as "the answer," and i don't believe they do either. He's something to build upon, to add to the mass of beef, to help fill the cupboard.I believe this for a few reasons. For years they've done little there, and it's bit them. Experiance is a mother, and they seem to be wiser than their predecessors Jsmith flamed out by week, three? ..Surely they dont think he, and big-A are "the answer" there either.Signing grimes, and then leaving banks and verner alone indicates NO CBs.Outside of CB, there is only OL and DL to suit the bucs needs with their first pick. The outsider..possibly, Jack.Ayers is on a mild contract, not a huge one. With that said, they can do whatever they want, and arent "locked" into aything.And, as always, we have to expect improvement from the DBs now that lovie is gone and they can play close.  In lovies system, they just tossed it to wide open wideouts, no four seconds needed.Tampa also didnt use their LBers right. David and kwon will be blizing more often in smith2.0s system, of that I'm sure.Its not all bad, boid. I think licht is doing an alright job. Lets wait and see.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Pass rush and secondary play are linked. The strength of one shores up the weakness of another. This "flip the switch" nonsense is comical. Classic Boid. Over and over and over you demonstrate your shallow knowledge of football. You don't pass on an elite corner for an average...possibly above average pass rusher. Especially in this draft. Your second and third round ends aren't to far away from your guys after Bosa and Buckner. If those guys are gone and VH3 is there, you take him. I was on the Spence bandwagon for a bit but I'm wavering after hearing about the poor interviews. I can't see the logic in passing on a player like VH3 for a gamble like Spence. Remember, Verner and Grimes are probably not in the team's long term plans. There will be a decision on Banks that must be made as well. VH3 would be a nice fit and we can find ends in rounds 2 and 3.

      Your crystal ball is amazing. You know who is going to bust and be elite already?Have you been hanging with Kat Williams again old man?You know about as much as any fool prognosticator does. When will you learn that no pass rush means corners get roasted? Read a book. Take a walk. Eat a viagra and make love to your wife. These are smart things to do. But telling me who is or isn't a bust or average or elite is stupid because you don't effing know. But way to be an arrogant prick. Classic Old Man Hayseed.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      How did Trent Richardson pan out?  The list is enormous of “sure fire” players who flamed out. All of your opinions are simply that. Coupons. If any of you knew who would be a rock star, you'd be in the NFL working as a draft guru. Nobody knows crap until they hit the field running. Draft a defensive end. Period. That IS a major problem. And on game day, it will rear its head and everyone will rue passing on QB killers.Spare me your foresight. All I am saying is draft a defensive end. Three of them if need be. Can't keep up the years of no pass rush. It's a primary reason the Bucs suck. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      I'd say that a better pass rusher will be at 39 vs the same corner at 39.Get the talent in the top ten.  Whichever position we don't get at 9, lean towards at 39 (or package some picks and move up to get that guy...Either way - pass rush is going to be addressed with a project.

      Corner isn’t a dire need.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      I'd say that a better pass rusher will be at 39 vs the same corner at 39.Get the talent in the top ten.  Whichever position we don't get at 9, lean towards at 39 (or package some picks and move up to get that guy...Either way - pass rush is going to be addressed with a project.

      Corner isn't a dire need.

      Agree. Fans are underestimating Banks and Verner. Hell, Alterraun was in the frekin Pro Bowl a couple years ago. I think they both have bounce back seasons with a competent DC. And Miko's husband is a nice add, although for the short term. I would like to add Ramsey, but that aint happening. He will be long gone at #9.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Agree with Boid. Our defense is worthless without pass rush. Gotta get to the Qb if the secondary is going to have any kind of success.

      That three step drop, quick slant was killing us last year and perfectly highlights why the secondary factors into pass rush. Even if we had a tremendous D-line, you're probably not getting to a QB on a three step drop. Take it away and it's a completely different story. Now, the CBs have disrupted the timing and the QB must work through his progressions. This takes time, leading to greater possibility of your pass rushers getting to him. I don't understand how even a casual fan can't understand this. Drafting a CB or a DE will help the defense. It boils down to the quality of the defender available at 9. I think VH3 grades out higher than any DE after Bosa and Buckner.

      So you still think that the Buccaneers have a good group of pass rushers and it was all scheme? Lol…talk about a casual fan. Do you have a tv, or do you merely listen to the broadcasts?Lmao!!! The talent level on the front line isn't there period. VHIII is burnt toast out there with no pass rush. Noah could be the next Simeon Rice...stranger stuff has happened Haystrodamus. All you are telling me is that you know for a fact that the pass rushers available are all garbage. And to that I say GTHO with your proclamation. How the hell do you know?  Build the lines. Because you don't know what will happen when they become professionals. Some bust, some shine. But you sure as hell don't know. But you like watching combine film and reading other people's opinions for gospel. Don't make me laugh, genius. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1858

      How did Trent Richardson pan out?  The list is enormous of "sure fire" players who flamed out. All of your opinions are simply that. Coupons. If any of you knew who would be a rock star, you'd be in the NFL working as a draft guru. Nobody knows crap until they hit the field running. Draft a defensive end. Period. That IS a major problem. And on game day, it will rear its head and everyone will rue passing on QB killers.Spare me your foresight. All I am saying is draft a defensive end. Three of them if need be. Can't keep up the years of no pass rush. It's a primary reason the Bucs suck.

      The hit rate on players in the top 10 is just above 50%.  But reaching for a player to fill a need makes those odds much much worse.The Bucs need elite players at both DE and DB.  All the top defences have elite players at both positions.  Draft best player and maximize your odds of hitting.  Once you start reaching, you start missing more which means you have to reach more...A good GM isn't thinking about this year, he's thinking years ahead.  And again, that means BPA.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Pass rush and secondary play are linked. The strength of one shores up the weakness of another. This "flip the switch" nonsense is comical. Classic Boid. Over and over and over you demonstrate your shallow knowledge of football. You don't pass on an elite corner for an average...possibly above average pass rusher. Especially in this draft. Your second and third round ends aren't to far away from your guys after Bosa and Buckner. If those guys are gone and VH3 is there, you take him. I was on the Spence bandwagon for a bit but I'm wavering after hearing about the poor interviews. I can't see the logic in passing on a player like VH3 for a gamble like Spence. Remember, Verner and Grimes are probably not in the team's long term plans. There will be a decision on Banks that must be made as well. VH3 would be a nice fit and we can find ends in rounds 2 and 3.

      Agreed. I understand DL is more important and has a bigger impact but the value simply isn't there. Passing up on a true #1 CB for an average DE prospect would piss me off.

      You can find a very good DB in the Second round....But you still need a Top Tier Defensive End...Anybody who says there is not value in the first round is on crack...

      Katt Williams has been hanging out with some of these fools. They will never learn. Nobody knows shiz from shinola regarding the draft, and that's the only truth I know. The people saying VHIII can shut down an elite for four second plus is the true dummy. That's why I am adamant about rolling dice to fix a serious problem. What if I said VHIII is a midget who will bust? Does it mean it is true?Some of you are monstrous hypocrites. Like you "know already for fact". GTHO with your toilet paper prognostications. Nobody knows. It's all a gamble. Sheesh...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 898

      I think Lawson is the perfect fit for us at 9. If we don’t take a DE in the first, I’d really like us to get a developmental pass rusher like Charles Tapper or Matt Judon later. I agree with Boid we need to commit to improving the pass rush.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      How did Trent Richardson pan out?  The list is enormous of "sure fire" players who flamed out. All of your opinions are simply that. Coupons. If any of you knew who would be a rock star, you'd be in the NFL working as a draft guru. Nobody knows crap until they hit the field running. Draft a defensive end. Period. That IS a major problem. And on game day, it will rear its head and everyone will rue passing on QB killers.Spare me your foresight. All I am saying is draft a defensive end. Three of them if need be. Can't keep up the years of no pass rush. It's a primary reason the Bucs suck.

      The hit rate on players in the top 10 is just above 50%.  But reaching for a player to fill a need makes those odds much much worse.The Bucs need elite players at both DE and DB.  All the top defences have elite players at both positions.  Draft best player and maximize your odds of hitting.  Once you start reaching, you start missing more which means you have to reach more...A good GM isn't thinking about this year, he's thinking years ahead.  And again, that means BPA.

      Again, how do you know who’s good or not?!!You don't. Where would JJ Watt have been drafted if they knew? Josh Norman if they knew? How about all these sure fire left tackles drafted recently that are not worthy to carry Joe Thomas's groin bag. It's ALL a crap shoot. The "BPA" stuff is all opinionated fluff crap. There are good pass rusher prospects available with a first round grade. The end.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Also, a “good” GM isn’t thinking about the future as much as he is fielding a competitive squad. He is thinking about keeping his job. No pass rush means drafting a rookie CB who will get roasted by everyone means the GM busted his pick that year. That's how GMs get fired. Busting on first rounders. We have waited long enough. How much longer do they wait to get a pro quality pass rush?  Aren't you guys sick of watching QBs squat the pocket, yawn, and complete twenty yard passes on third and ten?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      I'd say that a better pass rusher will be at 39 vs the same corner at 39.Get the talent in the top ten.  Whichever position we don't get at 9, lean towards at 39 (or package some picks and move up to get that guy...Either way - pass rush is going to be addressed with a project.

      Corner isn't a dire need.

      Agree. Fans are underestimating Banks and Verner. Hell, Alterraun was in the frekin Pro Bowl a couple years ago. I think they both have bounce back seasons with a competent DC. And Miko's husband is a nice add, although for the short term. I would like to add Ramsey, but that aint happening. He will be long gone at #9.

      True. Ramsey is a nice corner prospect and so is VH. But why screw around like that??!Dog chasing its own tail man. Not smart. Pass rushers need apply. And if there is value in round two for a DE, double down baby! Roll the dice!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      I'd say that a better pass rusher will be at 39 vs the same corner at 39.Get the talent in the top ten.  Whichever position we don't get at 9, lean towards at 39 (or package some picks and move up to get that guy...Either way - pass rush is going to be addressed with a project.

      Corner isn't a dire need.

      Agree. Fans are underestimating Banks and Verner. Hell, Alterraun was in the frekin Pro Bowl a couple years ago. I think they both have bounce back seasons with a competent DC. And Miko's husband is a nice add, although for the short term. I would like to add Ramsey, but that aint happening. He will be long gone at #9.

      True. Ramsey is a nice corner prospect and so is VH. But why screw around like that??!Dog chasing its own tail man. Not smart. Pass rushers need apply. And if there is value in round two for a DE, double down baby! Roll the dice!

      Ramsey will play safety in the NFL.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      I really want to trade up draft Ramsey and let the current Dline play another year. Just can't take passing up on a player that could be the next Sean Taylor or Patrick Peterson. Sign another vet or two in the second draft.

      Ugh. Corner will get burned with no pass rush from the front four, consistently. Grimes and company are enough to hang if the front four can make a QB sweat. Bucs have no pass rush. They aren't that good. They are thin as hell and try hard guys. Nobody is scheming against Jac Smith, Gholston, etc. why?Because they get walked. A lot. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      I'd say that a better pass rusher will be at 39 vs the same corner at 39.Get the talent in the top ten.  Whichever position we don't get at 9, lean towards at 39 (or package some picks and move up to get that guy...Either way - pass rush is going to be addressed with a project.

      Corner isn't a dire need.

      Agree. Fans are underestimating Banks and Verner. Hell, Alterraun was in the frekin Pro Bowl a couple years ago. I think they both have bounce back seasons with a competent DC. And Miko's husband is a nice add, although for the short term. I would like to add Ramsey, but that aint happening. He will be long gone at #9.

      True. Ramsey is a nice corner prospect and so is VH. But why screw around like that??!Dog chasing its own tail man. Not smart. Pass rushers need apply. And if there is value in round two for a DE, double down baby! Roll the dice!

      Ramsey will play safety in the NFL.

      Then still draft a DE. Quality safeties are easier to find than good pass rushers who make safeties look good more than vice versa.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      I'd say that a better pass rusher will be at 39 vs the same corner at 39.Get the talent in the top ten.  Whichever position we don't get at 9, lean towards at 39 (or package some picks and move up to get that guy...Either way - pass rush is going to be addressed with a project.

      Corner isn't a dire need.

      Agree. Fans are underestimating Banks and Verner. Hell, Alterraun was in the frekin Pro Bowl a couple years ago. I think they both have bounce back seasons with a competent DC. And Miko's husband is a nice add, although for the short term. I would like to add Ramsey, but that aint happening. He will be long gone at #9.

      True. Ramsey is a nice corner prospect and so is VH. But why screw around like that??!Dog chasing its own tail man. Not smart. Pass rushers need apply. And if there is value in round two for a DE, double down baby! Roll the dice!

      Ramsey will play safety in the NFL.

      Then still draft a DE. Quality safeties are easier to find than good pass rushers who make safeties look good more than vice versa.

      Not disagreeing. Ramsey would be plug and play at safety. But no sense even talking about it. He could possibly go numero uno. But the corners at the top of the draft don't excite me. So might as well go DE.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1784

      I'd say that a better pass rusher will be at 39 vs the same corner at 39.Get the talent in the top ten.  Whichever position we don't get at 9, lean towards at 39 (or package some picks and move up to get that guy...Either way - pass rush is going to be addressed with a project.

      Corner isn't a dire need.

      Agree. Fans are underestimating Banks and Verner. Hell, Alterraun was in the frekin Pro Bowl a couple years ago. I think they both have bounce back seasons with a competent DC. And Miko's husband is a nice add, although for the short term. I would like to add Ramsey, but that aint happening. He will be long gone at #9.

      True. Ramsey is a nice corner prospect and so is VH. But why screw around like that??!Dog chasing its own tail man. Not smart. Pass rushers need apply. And if there is value in round two for a DE, double down baby! Roll the dice!

      Ramsey will play safety in the NFL.

      Then still draft a DE. Quality safeties are easier to find than good pass rushers who make safeties look good more than vice versa.

      Not disagreeing. Ramsey would be plug and play at safety. But no sense even talking about it. He could possibly go numero uno. But the corners at the top of the draft don't excite me. So might as well go DE.

      Is Ramsey that good? Go number one overall? A safety?  I doubt it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      I'd say that a better pass rusher will be at 39 vs the same corner at 39.Get the talent in the top ten.  Whichever position we don't get at 9, lean towards at 39 (or package some picks and move up to get that guy...Either way - pass rush is going to be addressed with a project.

      Corner isn't a dire need.

      Agree. Fans are underestimating Banks and Verner. Hell, Alterraun was in the frekin Pro Bowl a couple years ago. I think they both have bounce back seasons with a competent DC. And Miko's husband is a nice add, although for the short term. I would like to add Ramsey, but that aint happening. He will be long gone at #9.

      True. Ramsey is a nice corner prospect and so is VH. But why screw around like that??!Dog chasing its own tail man. Not smart. Pass rushers need apply. And if there is value in round two for a DE, double down baby! Roll the dice!

      Ramsey will play safety in the NFL.

      Then still draft a DE. Quality safeties are easier to find than good pass rushers who make safeties look good more than vice versa.

      Not disagreeing. Ramsey would be plug and play at safety. But no sense even talking about it. He could possibly go numero uno. But the corners at the top of the draft don't excite me. So might as well go DE.

      Is Ramsey that good? Go number one overall? A safety?  I doubt it.

      Projected to be a top 3 pick. Great athleticism and has the size.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Are you gonna storm off again when the Bucs don’t draft a DE with their first pick?Hope so. The mean board IQ shot up a good 10 points when you pitched a fit and bounced. Addition by subtraction. BTW,  Jameis sure looks like a bust, huh? And youre going to try and lecture people about football and what this team needs. Laughable.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Are you gonna storm off again when the Bucs don't draft a DE with their first pick?Hope so. The mean board IQ shot up a good 10 points when you pitched a fit and bounced. Addition by subtraction. BTW,  Jameis sure looks like a bust, huh? And youre going to try and lecture people about football and what this team needs. Laughable.

      Watched every game. Didn’t post here. No need to when I was sick of watching Lovie ball. He should have been fired during the season for his stupidity and lack of evolution. I had nothing left but sheer frustration. Guys like Jack Rabbit Slim, Bradentonian and Dalbuc have all left because of Winston, or Schiano.  He’s countersuing and they still haven’t come back…well Slim came back so that’s good. And the frustration level was high for me. No doubt I admit it. He played well. I lashed at the people who own this place, as well, so let's just assume that I was highly agitated at watching this team and sharing my opinion of a consistently bad team. Beats acting like Java...I could have trolled the hell out of this place. But didn't because I'm not a troll. A frustrated as fug fan? Yes. So I voluntarily kept quiet. It ain't over for Jameis yet...he could still bust. What if he comes out and throws 20 plus INTs?  He isn't out of the "bust free" zone, but I give the man a ton of credit. He had a great season. I am a fan. But again, he's still not free and clear of the Tampa one year wonder curse. So purse the lips old man, lest you jinx it. Now again, about your stupid crystal ball...how do you know who is going to be good or not? Oh yeah, your azz doesn't know. You're guessing so just stop with the deflection and tell me now again who will bust and be elite in this years draft since you know so damned much, HAYSEED. perfect name for an old bumpkin who thinks he knows it all...claiming this guy is a reach and that guy is elite without watching a single snap of them as a pro. You're a joke. Belly up and tell me who is going to be elite!  Just name me twenty guys in this draft that will be elite, and twenty that will be sheer busts, and if you are right, I'll never doubt you and you will no doubt be a multi-millionaire with your abilities. That's only forty guys out of roughly 250ish...easy for a draft guru legend like yourself who builds teams ass backwards. Draft a defensive end. Period!  What say you to that, HAYSEED?  A-hyuck!And what if I told you I went to three games at Tampa last year, spent all that money, to watch crap?  Yeah...it's called being frustrated as hell. So eat a bag of crap please. And Jameis is still my sig pic, so figure it out..."Bringin the swag back"...know what that means old man?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 717

      Dang Boid. Must be alot pee in your cheerios this morning.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Dang Boid. Must be alot pee in your cheerios this morning.

      In Hayseeds maybe. I’m good to go!  Happy as a brain damaged hayseed!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 176

      Boid is correct. Without DL dominance, your D is soft. You can work around elite corners with gimmicks and movements. You can’t stop a dominant DL. When facing a dominant DL, the offense is forced to change to a 3 step drop and quick screens. Bring in the DEs!! I’m ok with any DL that L&K think will help though. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Simply put, you must win in the trenches.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      Pass rush and secondary play are linked. The strength of one shores up the weakness of another. This "flip the switch" nonsense is comical. Classic Boid. Over and over and over you demonstrate your shallow knowledge of football. You don't pass on an elite corner for an average...possibly above average pass rusher. Especially in this draft. Your second and third round ends aren't to far away from your guys after Bosa and Buckner. If those guys are gone and VH3 is there, you take him. I was on the Spence bandwagon for a bit but I'm wavering after hearing about the poor interviews. I can't see the logic in passing on a player like VH3 for a gamble like Spence. Remember, Verner and Grimes are probably not in the team's long term plans. There will be a decision on Banks that must be made as well. VH3 would be a nice fit and we can find ends in rounds 2 and 3.

      Agreed. I understand DL is more important and has a bigger impact but the value simply isn't there. Passing up on a true #1 CB for an average DE prospect would piss me off.

      You're wearing Hargreaves Sun Glasses...To ignore the fact that there is value in the 1st round at all DL position proves that you're either delusional or don't know WTF you're talking about...There is more value at DB in the later rounds and they are quality players...I guess you would prefer watching a rookie DB get chewed up by Brees, Ryan, and Newton because of the lack of a consistently intense pass rush...Hargreaves in not a once in a lifetime corner...forget about it...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 226

      Also, I do not like the idea of Rankins as a solution to this problem. He may well be the next...whoever, but not another DT please. Edge rushers is what they need. Make a move and get Buckner!! He may be the next Gholston, but he may be the next Watt. He is MASSIVE.

      It is my understanding that Buckner is viewed as a DT not DE.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Are you gonna storm off again when the Bucs don't draft a DE with their first pick?Hope so. The mean board IQ shot up a good 10 points when you pitched a fit and bounced. Addition by subtraction. BTW,  Jameis sure looks like a bust, huh? And youre going to try and lecture people about football and what this team needs. Laughable.

      Draft a defensive end. Period!  What say you to that, HAYSEED?  A-hyuck!And what if I told you I went to three games at Tampa last year, spent all that money, to watch crap?  Yeah...it's called being frustrated as hell. So eat a bag of crap please. And Jameis is still my sig pic, so figure it out..."Bringin the swag back"...know what that means old man?

      Who says they're not going to draft a DE? The premise that they should draft one at #9 regardless of who it is, is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this board in a long time.....and we're talking Red Board here, son. Wow! How many times do the adults in the room need to tell you that it is about value? You talk about a cyrstal ball.....WHAT THE HELL DO YOU CALL A DRAFT BOARD? I guarantee you that Licht isn't walking into the War Room and telling the troops "guys, we're drafting a DE at 9 no matter what..." That's just stupid. It's something that a child would do. No wonder that's what you advocate. So read carefully. Grab an adult to assist you if need be. If Bosa and Buckner aren't there, you don't pass up on a guy like Hargreaves. And....you were the one that stormed out after proclaiming Jameis would be bust. After one game. Again, that's what a child does. Not surprising that's what you do as well.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Pass rush and secondary play are linked. The strength of one shores up the weakness of another. This "flip the switch" nonsense is comical. Classic Boid. Over and over and over you demonstrate your shallow knowledge of football. You don't pass on an elite corner for an average...possibly above average pass rusher. Especially in this draft. Your second and third round ends aren't to far away from your guys after Bosa and Buckner. If those guys are gone and VH3 is there, you take him. I was on the Spence bandwagon for a bit but I'm wavering after hearing about the poor interviews. I can't see the logic in passing on a player like VH3 for a gamble like Spence. Remember, Verner and Grimes are probably not in the team's long term plans. There will be a decision on Banks that must be made as well. VH3 would be a nice fit and we can find ends in rounds 2 and 3.

      Agreed. I understand DL is more important and has a bigger impact but the value simply isn't there. Passing up on a true #1 CB for an average DE prospect would piss me off.

      You're wearing Hargreaves Sun Glasses...To ignore the fact that there is value in the 1st round at all DL position proves that you're either delusional or don't know WTF you're talking about...There is more value at DB in the later rounds and they are quality players...I guess you would prefer watching a rookie DB get chewed up by Brees, Ryan, and Newton because of the lack of a consistently intense pass rush...Hargreaves in not a once in a lifetime corner...forget about it...

      Another clown who can't grasp the concept. Sigh. Secondary and pass rush are linked. Period. Look it up. I don't have time to teach you. It's out there. Google is your friend. As for VH3, you're right. He's not a once in a lifetime corner. He has great film and a great work ethic. He has the makings of an elite corner. PR has gone on a crusade to discredit the guy because of his size, yet they fail to acknowledge his production, his ball skills, his instincts and the fact that corners his size (Revis, Haden, Grimes) continue to excel in this league. You apparently have bought into this "there's no way a 5'10" corner can cover a 6'4" receiver" nonsense. You apparently need to do some soul searching, my friend. There are two premier pass rushers in this draft; Bosa and Buckner. There are two premier corners; Ramsey and VH3. If one is available at 9, you grab him. Work the other position in the next few rounds. Easy-peasy. Why on Earth would someone want to lock into a position with the first pick? Especially when considering how the team has approached free agency. Licht is setting up for BPA...thankfully.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 898

      Doubt Bucs will regret passing on a 5’10 CB with short arms and lacks deep speed.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 176

      Are you gonna storm off again when the Bucs don't draft a DE with their first pick?Hope so. The mean board IQ shot up a good 10 points when you pitched a fit and bounced. Addition by subtraction. BTW,  Jameis sure looks like a bust, huh? And youre going to try and lecture people about football and what this team needs. Laughable.

      Draft a defensive end. Period!  What say you to that, HAYSEED?  A-hyuck!And what if I told you I went to three games at Tampa last year, spent all that money, to watch crap?  Yeah...it's called being frustrated as hell. So eat a bag of crap please. And Jameis is still my sig pic, so figure it out..."Bringin the swag back"...know what that means old man?

      Who says they're not going to draft a DE? The premise that they should draft one at #9 regardless of who it is, is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this board in a long time.....and we're talking Red Board here, son. Wow! How many times do the adults in the room need to tell you that it is about value? You talk about a cyrstal ball.....WHAT THE HELL DO YOU CALL A DRAFT BOARD? I guarantee you that Licht isn't walking into the War Room and telling the troops "guys, we're drafting a DE at 9 no matter what..." That's just stupid. It's something that a child would do. No wonder that's what you advocate. So read carefully. Grab an adult to assist you if need be. If Bosa and Buckner aren't there, you don't pass up on a guy like Hargreaves. And....you were the one that stormed out after proclaiming Jameis would be bust. After one game. Again, that's what a child does. Not surprising that's what you do as well.

      So by "value" we are talking about an item that you could pass on in hopes that the identical item will be there the next time you go shopping? Basically if the Bucs hold a player in the range of pick 1-38, then they should select that person. Because thats what I see as value. I won't hate the Bucs for selecting a player "rated" at 20 with the 9th selection. You can't. Trades take 2 to tango. There are no guarantees that you can drop back that far and still select the man you're targeting. BPA is a myth if you think about the age of the FAs we have signed.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Are you gonna storm off again when the Bucs don't draft a DE with their first pick?Hope so. The mean board IQ shot up a good 10 points when you pitched a fit and bounced. Addition by subtraction. BTW,  Jameis sure looks like a bust, huh? And youre going to try and lecture people about football and what this team needs. Laughable.

      Draft a defensive end. Period!  What say you to that, HAYSEED?  A-hyuck!And what if I told you I went to three games at Tampa last year, spent all that money, to watch crap?  Yeah...it's called being frustrated as hell. So eat a bag of crap please. And Jameis is still my sig pic, so figure it out..."Bringin the swag back"...know what that means old man?

      Who says they're not going to draft a DE? The premise that they should draft one at #9 regardless of who it is, is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this board in a long time.....and we're talking Red Board here, son. Wow! How many times do the adults in the room need to tell you that it is about value? You talk about a cyrstal ball.....WHAT THE HELL DO YOU CALL A DRAFT BOARD? I guarantee you that Licht isn't walking into the War Room and telling the troops "guys, we're drafting a DE at 9 no matter what..." That's just stupid. It's something that a child would do. No wonder that's what you advocate. So read carefully. Grab an adult to assist you if need be. If Bosa and Buckner aren't there, you don't pass up on a guy like Hargreaves. And....you were the one that stormed out after proclaiming Jameis would be bust. After one game. Again, that's what a child does. Not surprising that's what you do as well.

      There will be plenty of 1st round worthy pass rushers available when the Bucs pick. Let me guess? You're a Gator fan? No way you build from the secondary in. VH3 isn't any more exceptional a CB than some of the DE prospects that will presumably be available. Stormed out?  Lol...keep going back to your useless meandering old man deflection. Keep dodging and ducking. You are acting like you know what's up, and you don't. We have three solid corners. And zero solid defensive ends. You go fix what's broken. The pass rush is busted. Take the best available pass rusher, and draft secondary in the latter rounds. You got it backwards, dummy. (Sapp)I never left. I lingered. Sorry if I didn't post, but it's clear you missed me old man. I watched. I just didn't feel the need to troll the board. What would Java do?  Would you have preferred I slam the team like to a troll?  Idiot. And no, Licht isn't doing what you are insinuating. You're drowning in your own stupidity.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Are you gonna storm off again when the Bucs don't draft a DE with their first pick?Hope so. The mean board IQ shot up a good 10 points when you pitched a fit and bounced. Addition by subtraction. BTW,  Jameis sure looks like a bust, huh? And youre going to try and lecture people about football and what this team needs. Laughable.

      Draft a defensive end. Period!  What say you to that, HAYSEED?  A-hyuck!And what if I told you I went to three games at Tampa last year, spent all that money, to watch crap?  Yeah...it's called being frustrated as hell. So eat a bag of crap please. And Jameis is still my sig pic, so figure it out..."Bringin the swag back"...know what that means old man?

      Who says they're not going to draft a DE? The premise that they should draft one at #9 regardless of who it is, is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this board in a long time.....and we're talking Red Board here, son. Wow! How many times do the adults in the room need to tell you that it is about value? You talk about a cyrstal ball.....WHAT THE HELL DO YOU CALL A DRAFT BOARD? I guarantee you that Licht isn't walking into the War Room and telling the troops "guys, we're drafting a DE at 9 no matter what..." That's just stupid. It's something that a child would do. No wonder that's what you advocate. So read carefully. Grab an adult to assist you if need be. If Bosa and Buckner aren't there, you don't pass up on a guy like Hargreaves. And....you were the one that stormed out after proclaiming Jameis would be bust. After one game. Again, that's what a child does. Not surprising that's what you do as well.

      So by "value" we are talking about an item that you could pass on in hopes that the identical item will be there the next time you go shopping? Basically if the Bucs hold a player in the range of pick 1-38, then they should select that person. Because thats what I see as value. I won't hate the Bucs for selecting a player "rated" at 20 with the 9th selection. You can't. Trades take 2 to tango. There are no guarantees that you can drop back that far and still select the man you're targeting. BPA is a myth if you think about the age of the FAs we have signed.

      No, to Hayseed value is being a homer, and knowing who the elites are already. Laughable that an old man who claims to watch football is that remarkably foolish as to fail to see the big picture. Maybe Licht does see VH as “the man”. But he will be out the door if the Bucs have another anemic pass rush, and VH gets roasted out there. That’s my premise.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      So, which DEs other than Bosa or Buckner would you take at #9? Spence? Nmdechie? If you're Jason Licht, are you willing to roll the dice with a top 10 pick on either of those guys? Dodd? Lawson? Ogbah? I think all of those guys are reaches and that you can get better value later in the draft. Why pass on an elite CB or OT prospect? Most of those guys I mentioned have late first to second round grades while guys like Stanley and Hargreaves are pretty much consensus top 10 picks. How can passing on guys like that be the best thing for the team?Thankfully, our GM won't do what you are suggesting. He'll do the right thing and then we get to watch you storm off again. Should be awesome. Win-win. Can't wait.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3341

      Are you gonna storm off again when the Bucs don't draft a DE with their first pick?Hope so. The mean board IQ shot up a good 10 points when you pitched a fit and bounced. Addition by subtraction. BTW,  Jameis sure looks like a bust, huh? And youre going to try and lecture people about football and what this team needs. Laughable.

      Draft a defensive end. Period!  What say you to that, HAYSEED?  A-hyuck!And what if I told you I went to three games at Tampa last year, spent all that money, to watch crap?  Yeah...it's called being frustrated as hell. So eat a bag of crap please. And Jameis is still my sig pic, so figure it out..."Bringin the swag back"...know what that means old man?

      Who says they're not going to draft a DE? The premise that they should draft one at #9 regardless of who it is, is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this board in a long time.....and we're talking Red Board here, son. Wow! How many times do the adults in the room need to tell you that it is about value? You talk about a cyrstal ball.....WHAT THE HELL DO YOU CALL A DRAFT BOARD? I guarantee you that Licht isn't walking into the War Room and telling the troops "guys, we're drafting a DE at 9 no matter what..." That's just stupid. It's something that a child would do. No wonder that's what you advocate. So read carefully. Grab an adult to assist you if need be. If Bosa and Buckner aren't there, you don't pass up on a guy like Hargreaves. And....you were the one that stormed out after proclaiming Jameis would be bust. After one game. Again, that's what a child does. Not surprising that's what you do as well.

      So by "value" we are talking about an item that you could pass on in hopes that the identical item will be there the next time you go shopping? Basically if the Bucs hold a player in the range of pick 1-38, then they should select that person. Because thats what I see as value. I won't hate the Bucs for selecting a player "rated" at 20 with the 9th selection. You can't. Trades take 2 to tango. There are no guarantees that you can drop back that far and still select the man you're targeting. BPA is a myth if you think about the age of the FAs we have signed.

      Any GM with that mentality in a draft won't be a GM for very long.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 187

      Draft a kicker in round 1, screw DE and CB. Kickers are football players also.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Nah, lets just draft DEs with every pick. We’re bound to get a decent one, right?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Nah, lets just draft DEs with every pick. We're bound to get a decent one, right?

      It actually might yield am good player…but that’s a dumb ass idea.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 78

      Im pretty surprised people are arguing with hayseed so much over this. Teams have draft boards for a reason. No one really knows for sure how a player will end up, but you have to try to rate them and draft them based on those ratings. If Buckner and bosa are gone and the bucs have the next guys rated in a lower tier but vhIII as a top 10 guy, you go with the top 10 guy simple as that. You could then come back in rounds 2 and 3 and hit the DL then. I’m not saying this is how the bucs have rated these dlineman, but i can see that being the case.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2445

      Where did JJ Watt get selected?You never know. Guys can flip a switch and take it to the next level. If JJ played in college like he has as a Pro, there would be dead offensive linemen everywhere. Take the best pass rusher available. VHIII is burnt toast without one, superior talent or not. That's a fact. Pass rush first. Or pass protection. We have the QB already. But don't pick secondary without being aware of the situation. VH will be ATV out there. A short CB getting roasted. Truth. Bosa may be a monster as a pro. Nobody knows. Roll the dice. It's not like they haven't bombed out in the first before. It will happen to someone this year as well. Draft pass rushers. Round 1, 2, and 3. Load up!Sick of watching crappy QBs handling their business against first stringers. Our first stringers. Because they suck!

      you should check out JJ watt college tape again. it was so much better then anyone in this draft class. Well Besides Bosa hes legit, but after Bosa the game tape of anyone in this class is not nearly close to Watt in Wisconsin. Truthfully, after Bosa every DE prospect in this draft class would have been 2nd round prospects in JJ Watts draft class. Thats not an exaggeration.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Im pretty surprised people are arguing with hayseed so much over this. Teams have draft boards for a reason. No one really knows for sure how a player will end up, but you have to try to rate them and draft them based on those ratings. If Buckner and bosa are gone and the bucs have the next guys rated in a lower tier but vhIII as a top 10 guy, you go with the top 10 guy simple as that. You could then come back in rounds 2 and 3 and hit the DL then. I'm not saying this is how the bucs have rated these dlineman, but i can see that being the case.

      Im surprised you created another account. Lol!Deep draft for secondary guys. Take the best love defensive lineman left. Noah, Buckner, Bosa, Shaq...one of them will be there. Bucs need pass rushers. What is so hard to figure out here?!  Are you all blind to the fact the Bucs have a group a crappy rushers?  Sheeeeshus Christabon!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Where did JJ Watt get selected?You never know. Guys can flip a switch and take it to the next level. If JJ played in college like he has as a Pro, there would be dead offensive linemen everywhere. Take the best pass rusher available. VHIII is burnt toast without one, superior talent or not. That's a fact. Pass rush first. Or pass protection. We have the QB already. But don't pick secondary without being aware of the situation. VH will be ATV out there. A short CB getting roasted. Truth. Bosa may be a monster as a pro. Nobody knows. Roll the dice. It's not like they haven't bombed out in the first before. It will happen to someone this year as well. Draft pass rushers. Round 1, 2, and 3. Load up!Sick of watching crappy QBs handling their business against first stringers. Our first stringers. Because they suck!

      you should check out JJ watt college tape again. it was so much better then anyone in this draft class. Well Besides Bosa hes legit, but after Bosa the game tape of anyone in this class is not nearly close to Watt in Wisconsin. Truthfully, after Bosa every DE prospect in this draft class would have been 2nd round prospects in JJ Watts draft class. Thats not an exaggeration.

      Yet he was drafted rather late…so you never know how guys will pan out. Nobody does. Period.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Pretty obvious that Boid doesn’t understand the basic concept of a draft board. It’s only the cornerstone of the draft for every single NFL team.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1658

      Where did JJ Watt get selected?You never know. Guys can flip a switch and take it to the next level. If JJ played in college like he has as a Pro, there would be dead offensive linemen everywhere. Take the best pass rusher available. VHIII is burnt toast without one, superior talent or not. That's a fact. Pass rush first. Or pass protection. We have the QB already. But don't pick secondary without being aware of the situation. VH will be ATV out there. A short CB getting roasted. Truth. Bosa may be a monster as a pro. Nobody knows. Roll the dice. It's not like they haven't bombed out in the first before. It will happen to someone this year as well. Draft pass rushers. Round 1, 2, and 3. Load up!Sick of watching crappy QBs handling their business against first stringers. Our first stringers. Because they suck!

      you should check out JJ watt college tape again. it was so much better then anyone in this draft class. Well Besides Bosa hes legit, but after Bosa the game tape of anyone in this class is not nearly close to Watt in Wisconsin. Truthfully, after Bosa every DE prospect in this draft class would have been 2nd round prospects in JJ Watts draft class. Thats not an exaggeration.

      Yet he was drafted rather late...so you never know how guys will pan out. Nobody does. Period.

      The 2011 draft class was nuts.  In the top half of the first round, there's exactly one non-QB who has failed to make a pro bowl.  Sure, sure - people weren't seeing Watt as an all-time great going into that draft.  But he was still an exceptional prospect.  If college-Watt came out this year, he'd certainly be a top-3 selection.  Probably first overall.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      I have Lawson and Ogbah high on my board. However speed is also a huge deficiency and Coleman could also fill that at 9. Would a Dodd still be there at 39? Correa? Do you like Nassib? Don’t forget DT. But none of us have been involved in interviews and don’t know how this will play out.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      I have Lawson and Ogbah high on my board. However speed is also a huge deficiency and Coleman could also fill that at 9. Would a Dodd still be there at 39? Correa? Do you like Nassib? Don't forget DT. But none of us have been involved in interviews and don't know how this will play out.

      I'm leaning towards Ogbah if Ramsey, Bosa, Buckner, VH3, Stanley are off the board. Coleman is intriguing but I'd have a hard time passing on Ogbah in that situation.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1658

      I have Lawson and Ogbah high on my board. However speed is also a huge deficiency and Coleman could also fill that at 9. Would a Dodd still be there at 39? Correa? Do you like Nassib? Don't forget DT. But none of us have been involved in interviews and don't know how this will play out.

      I'm leaning towards Ogbah if Ramsey, Bosa, Buckner, VH3, Stanley are off the board. Coleman is intriguing but I'd have a hard time passing on Ogbah in that situation.

      Do you have Ogbah above Tunsil or were you just taking it as a given that he wouldn't be available?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      I have Lawson and Ogbah high on my board. However speed is also a huge deficiency and Coleman could also fill that at 9. Would a Dodd still be there at 39? Correa? Do you like Nassib? Don't forget DT. But none of us have been involved in interviews and don't know how this will play out.

      I'm leaning towards Ogbah if Ramsey, Bosa, Buckner, VH3, Stanley are off the board. Coleman is intriguing but I'd have a hard time passing on Ogbah in that situation.

      Do you have Ogbah above Tunsil or were you just taking it as a given that he wouldn't be available?

      Heck no. I don't see Tunsil being available AT ALL. I also see Wentz and Goff being picked before 9 as well. Throw in Jack and now we start looking at the four guys I mentioned above. I would do cartwheels if someone in the top 8 selects Treadwell.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 235

      Are you gonna storm off again when the Bucs don't draft a DE with their first pick?Hope so. The mean board IQ shot up a good 10 points when you pitched a fit and bounced. Addition by subtraction. BTW,  Jameis sure looks like a bust, huh? And youre going to try and lecture people about football and what this team needs. Laughable.

      Draft a defensive end. Period!  What say you to that, HAYSEED?  A-hyuck!And what if I told you I went to three games at Tampa last year, spent all that money, to watch crap?  Yeah...it's called being frustrated as hell. So eat a bag of crap please. And Jameis is still my sig pic, so figure it out..."Bringin the swag back"...know what that means old man?

      Who says they're not going to draft a DE? The premise that they should draft one at #9 regardless of who it is, is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this board in a long time.....and we're talking Red Board here, son. Wow! How many times do the adults in the room need to tell you that it is about value? You talk about a cyrstal ball.....WHAT THE HELL DO YOU CALL A DRAFT BOARD? I guarantee you that Licht isn't walking into the War Room and telling the troops "guys, we're drafting a DE at 9 no matter what..." That's just stupid. It's something that a child would do. No wonder that's what you advocate. So read carefully. Grab an adult to assist you if need be. If Bosa and Buckner aren't there, you don't pass up on a guy like Hargreaves. And....you were the one that stormed out after proclaiming Jameis would be bust. After one game. Again, that's what a child does. Not surprising that's what you do as well.

      So by "value" we are talking about an item that you could pass on in hopes that the identical item will be there the next time you go shopping? Basically if the Bucs hold a player in the range of pick 1-38, then they should select that person. Because thats what I see as value. I won't hate the Bucs for selecting a player "rated" at 20 with the 9th selection. You can't. Trades take 2 to tango. There are no guarantees that you can drop back that far and still select the man you're targeting. BPA is a myth if you think about the age of the FAs we have signed.

      Any GM with that mentality in a draft won't be a GM for very long.

      That reminds me of that one GM that we had...uhm...Dominik I think his name was?? When he drafted for need in 2011 by drafting..who was it...uhm, DE's Clayborn and Bowers.  I hear they love him at ESPN tho.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 235

      Where did JJ Watt get selected?You never know. Guys can flip a switch and take it to the next level. If JJ played in college like he has as a Pro, there would be dead offensive linemen everywhere. Take the best pass rusher available. VHIII is burnt toast without one, superior talent or not. That's a fact. Pass rush first. Or pass protection. We have the QB already. But don't pick secondary without being aware of the situation. VH will be ATV out there. A short CB getting roasted. Truth. Bosa may be a monster as a pro. Nobody knows. Roll the dice. It's not like they haven't bombed out in the first before. It will happen to someone this year as well. Draft pass rushers. Round 1, 2, and 3. Load up!Sick of watching crappy QBs handling their business against first stringers. Our first stringers. Because they suck!

      you should check out JJ watt college tape again. it was so much better then anyone in this draft class. Well Besides Bosa hes legit, but after Bosa the game tape of anyone in this class is not nearly close to Watt in Wisconsin. Truthfully, after Bosa every DE prospect in this draft class would have been 2nd round prospects in JJ Watts draft class. Thats not an exaggeration.

      Yet he was drafted rather late...so you never know how guys will pan out. Nobody does. Period.

      He was drafted late?? wtf...he was the 11th selection, how is that late?  Also, that 2011 draft class for teams picking in the top 10-15 shames this years top 10-15 selections.  You boy would be the first player selected with this years draft class.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      I have Lawson and Ogbah high on my board. However speed is also a huge deficiency and Coleman could also fill that at 9. Would a Dodd still be there at 39? Correa? Do you like Nassib? Don't forget DT. But none of us have been involved in interviews and don't know how this will play out.

      I'm leaning towards Ogbah if Ramsey, Bosa, Buckner, VH3, Stanley are off the board. Coleman is intriguing but I'd have a hard time passing on Ogbah in that situation.

      Do you have Ogbah above Tunsil or were you just taking it as a given that he wouldn't be available?

      Tunsil is my 1 overall. Not only is he the best player but by moving Smith to RT you could upgrade two positions. But I don’t see him falling past 3.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1571

      I have Lawson and Ogbah high on my board. However speed is also a huge deficiency and Coleman could also fill that at 9. Would a Dodd still be there at 39? Correa? Do you like Nassib? Don't forget DT. But none of us have been involved in interviews and don't know how this will play out.

      I'm leaning towards Ogbah if Ramsey, Bosa, Buckner, VH3, Stanley are off the board. Coleman is intriguing but I'd have a hard time passing on Ogbah in that situation.

      Do you have Ogbah above Tunsil or were you just taking it as a given that he wouldn't be available?

      Heck no. I don't see Tunsil being available AT ALL. I also see Wentz and Goff being picked before 9 as well. Throw in Jack and now we start looking at the four guys I mentioned above. I would do cartwheels if someone in the top 8 selects Treadwell.

      I would not be surprised to see Elliot go in the top 8.  Would be nice to see some of the other guys pushed down.  This really is a crappy draft to have such a high pick.  I would love to trade down, but that is very unlikely.As far as drafting pass rush I think we would all love to do so, but we have to play the hand we're dealt.  If we're picking at 9 and L&K feel all the ends are C level players should we take one just to take one?  I don't think you do that no matter how great the need.  Especially not if L&K have a guy at another position graded as an A player at a different position.If the grades are close then of course you go for the position of need- no doubt.  If we're comparing a B+ end to an A- something else then going for end makes sense.  Its just a matter of how big they feel that gap is.  An edge rusher is our biggest need, but it isn't our only need.

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    • bucsnbr1

      Participant
      Post count: 309

      Sammich is right. It’s unfair to call for us to pick any DE over VHG without knowing to despairity Licht sees between the two players. For all we know they have 2nd and 3rd rounders rated higher or equal to Lawson or Spence or whoever. They didn’t draft Manziel, in a position of great need, because they had him graded lowly. I don’t expect them to change draft strategy and get guys they rate lowly just for a DE. If they take a DE at 9 they had him graded high and I’m happy. If they take another position at 9, more then likely that’s because they had that player graded a good deal higher then any DE, again I’m happy. They know they need a rush but I highly doubt they will pass on players they believe are set to have pro-bowl type careers for pass rushers they believe are average.Licht has had more success in drafts then any other post-McKay draft. I think the guy knows what's he's doing and all fans should be on board with whoever comes to Tampa.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Its easy to say, best player available. But that doesn’t work. What if its a QB for instance?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 187

      Best player available is a Kicker or Punter! I don't care who we draft as long as they can come in and make this team better. Noah Spence is my favorite DE, and Andrew Billing is my favorite DT, something about Billings reminds me of Sapp, I like HV3 and would be happy with the pick but I think D.J White is the exact same player and he could be had in probably the 4th round.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 187

      should have done spell check on above post, my bad yall.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      should have done spell check on above post, my bad yall.

      Called out by yourself= humility= +1. You can hit the modify button to clean it up. As for the players, I like Billings as well.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Where did JJ Watt get selected?You never know. Guys can flip a switch and take it to the next level. If JJ played in college like he has as a Pro, there would be dead offensive linemen everywhere. Take the best pass rusher available. VHIII is burnt toast without one, superior talent or not. That's a fact. Nobody knows when a draft is overall solid till a few seasons have past. And FWIW, I did not want AC. Pass rush first. Or pass protection. We have the QB already. But don't pick secondary without being aware of the situation. VH will be ATV out there. A short CB getting roasted. Truth. Bosa may be a monster as a pro. Nobody knows. Roll the dice. It's not like they haven't bombed out in the first before. It will happen to someone this year as well. Draft pass rushers. Round 1, 2, and 3. Load up!Sick of watching crappy QBs handling their business against first stringers. Our first stringers. Because they suck!

      you should check out JJ watt college tape again. it was so much better then anyone in this draft class. Well Besides Bosa hes legit, but after Bosa the game tape of anyone in this class is not nearly close to Watt in Wisconsin. Truthfully, after Bosa every DE prospect in this draft class would have been 2nd round prospects in JJ Watts draft class. Thats not an exaggeration.

      Yet he was drafted rather late...so you never know how guys will pan out. Nobody does. Period.

      He was drafted late?? wtf...he was the 11th selection, how is that late?  Also, that 2011 draft class for teams picking in the top 10-15 shames this years top 10-15 selections.  You boy would be the first player selected with this years draft class.

      You unknowingly support my argument. Eleventh pick is a few picks up from 9…and nobody thought he was going to be the most dominant defender In the league. Nobody. So with that said, draft a DE and pray for Watt part two.

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    • rmslpn

      Participant
      Post count: 1384

      Buckner is what 24 25? no thanks to rookies that old and drafting them top 10, not to mention I think he is a better fit in a 34 playing end

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 855

      You're wearing Hargreaves Sun Glasses...To ignore the fact that there is value in the 1st round at all DL position proves that you're either delusional or don't know WTF you're talking about...There is more value at DB in the later rounds and they are quality players...I guess you would prefer watching a rookie DB get chewed up by Brees, Ryan, and Newton because of the lack of a consistently intense pass rush...Hargreaves in not a once in a lifetime corner...forget about it...

      I didn’t “ignore the fact” that there are 1st round prospects. I just don’t think the DL prospects outside of a couple are good value at top 10. Obgah is slowly but surely warming up to me but outside of Bosa and Spence – early first round grades on most of these pass rushers in our defense simply isn’t there.I prefer to draft BPA. This is a deep DL class in general so the chances are we finding a pass rusher in the first round is just as good as in round 2. And the drop of between the second, third, and fourth round pass rushers in this draft is minimal. Meanwhile, I only see about 4 CB prospects with upside to be a true #1 CB. Hargreaves is basically Joe Haden(pro bowl CB) I don't give a shit if he isn't a "once in a lifetime corner" were not drafting him to be.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      I am with ya B-man. But I am not thrilled with the DE's in this draft. I don't see any Lawrence Taylors or JJ Watts.I am not sold on Bosa. Although I guess I would take a shot if he was there at #9.

      Did you see JJ Watt before he became the phenom that he is today?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 855

      The JJ Watt comparison is null and void. No, nobody saw him to be this damn good. He destroyed the combine and showed off his athletic ability but his production was average at best.That and Watt has an unreal work ethic. He is a * of a prospect when talking about striking gold.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      The JJ Watt comparison is null and void. No, nobody saw him to be this damn good. He destroyed the combine and showed off his athletic ability but his production was average at best.That and Watt has an unreal work ethic. He is a * of a prospect when talking about striking gold.

      I wanted Cam. He would have been solid enough. Paired with Mike Bennett and Gmac and I’d be all about adding a wideout for Jameis, or maybe a corner.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 855

      The JJ Watt comparison is null and void. No, nobody saw him to be this damn good. He destroyed the combine and showed off his athletic ability but his production was average at best.That and Watt has an unreal work ethic. He is a * of a prospect when talking about striking gold.

      I wanted Cam. He would have been solid enough. Paired with Mike Bennett and Gmac and I'd be all about adding a wideout for Jameis, or maybe a corner.

      You did. I wanted Robert Quinn that year so bad but he went a pick or 2 ahead. I tried to convince myself and bought the “AC had a down year argument b/c”. Cam would’ve been the much, much, much better pick.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      The JJ Watt comparison is null and void. No, nobody saw him to be this damn good. He destroyed the combine and showed off his athletic ability but his production was average at best.That and Watt has an unreal work ethic. He is a * of a prospect when talking about striking gold.

      I wanted Cam. He would have been solid enough. Paired with Mike Bennett and Gmac and I'd be all about adding a wideout for Jameis, or maybe a corner.

      You did. I wanted Robert Quinn that year so bad but he went a pick or 2 ahead. I tried to convince myself and bought the "AC had a down year argument b/c". Cam would've been the much, much, much better pick.

      …Quinn would have been big titties man! 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 252

      edge rusher is a need but not the only need. if you are a playoff team you can go into draft  focusing on filling your holes but if you are picking at the top you have holes all over.  you get better by taking the BPA(within reason). need factors in when comparing guys with similar grades.  There aren't any elite double-digit sack potential edge rushers in this class unless someone really exceeds expectations.  Even Bosa and Buckner who will go top five......no one is comparing them to Freeney, Peppers, Allen, Aldon Smith, JPP types.  This draft has a bunch of 6-8 sack type dudes.  While there is value in that if they play the run well too why take one in the top ten if his grade doesn't warrant it?  Why pass on players at other positions with higher grades when we have multiple needs besides pass rusher? I still say draft a couple DEs and see if we can coach them up but don't reach for a guy early based soley on need an ignore other players who are better.  I take the best CB in the draft (VHIII) over reaching for Lawson, Dodd, Spence. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 295

      I agree with your sentiment that pass rushing DE is of dire need, and that fact has been ignored year after sh*tty yearBut you can't just wish a good DE into existence at  #9. Even though I'm the same camp as you that we HAVE to solve the DE drought, I'd rather take one in round 2 or 3 then throw away the #9 pick on a bad prospectThe JJ Watt argument is pretty weak. It's like saying every QB in round 6 has a legit chance at being Tom Brady

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      I agree with your sentiment that pass rushing DE is of dire need, and that fact has been ignored year after sh*tty yearBut you can't just wish a good DE into existence at  #9. Even though I'm the same camp as you that we HAVE to solve the DE drought, I'd rather take one in round 2 or 3 then throw away the #9 pick on a bad prospectThe JJ Watt argument is pretty weak. It's like saying every QB in round 6 has a legit chance at being Tom Brady

      I was one of three that wanted Russell Wilson. Ironically, Java was one of the others. Nobody knows who will do what!  VHIII might bust regardless of what a Mayock or Hayseed says about him (good screen name btw!)...I don't see these prospects as being world beaters. But nobody said JJ Watt was going to perform miracles out there either. So draft a DE and pray for Watt! That's all I getting at folks. Corner isn't a big a need as pass rush. Point blank. Bucs will get another first rounder next year. Grimes will be teetering, that would be a better time. Shore up the trenches! Blast Cam Newton!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 226

      I agree with your sentiment that pass rushing DE is of dire need, and that fact has been ignored year after sh*tty yearBut you can't just wish a good DE into existence at  #9. Even though I'm the same camp as you that we HAVE to solve the DE drought, I'd rather take one in round 2 or 3 then throw away the #9 pick on a bad prospectThe JJ Watt argument is pretty weak. It's like saying every QB in round 6 has a legit chance at being Tom Brady

      Was not that long ago when they drafted Clayborne in the first and Bowers in the second. How did that work out for Dominick? If our beloved GM gambles on a prayer rather then using his draft board he will be selling pencils on the street corner in no time. There is no patience for botching a draft. Also as pointed out here by SR, most view Buckner as a DT  not a DE unless you run a 3-4.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      I agree with your sentiment that pass rushing DE is of dire need, and that fact has been ignored year after sh*tty yearBut you can't just wish a good DE into existence at  #9. Even though I'm the same camp as you that we HAVE to solve the DE drought, I'd rather take one in round 2 or 3 then throw away the #9 pick on a bad prospectThe JJ Watt argument is pretty weak. It's like saying every QB in round 6 has a legit chance at being Tom Brady

      Was not that long ago when they drafted Clayborne in the first and Bowers in the second. How did that work out for Dominick? If our beloved GM gambles on a prayer rather then using his draft board he will be selling pencils on the street corner in no time. There is no patience for botching a draft. Also as pointed out here by SR, most view Buckner as a DT  not a DE unless you run a 3-4.

      If you utilize the linebackers to blitz more, Buckner would fit nicely. I digress. Dom did what he could to fix an area of need. I applaud him for that only. Bowers was rated as a #1 overall before the knee issues started tipping the flags. AC again was a sound prospect, but just didn't work out. Bowers had a horrible knee and terrible work ethic. Stuff happens. But you can't put your head in a hole and disregard need. We aren't the Patriots.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 226

      I agree with your sentiment that pass rushing DE is of dire need, and that fact has been ignored year after sh*tty yearBut you can't just wish a good DE into existence at  #9. Even though I'm the same camp as you that we HAVE to solve the DE drought, I'd rather take one in round 2 or 3 then throw away the #9 pick on a bad prospectThe JJ Watt argument is pretty weak. It's like saying every QB in round 6 has a legit chance at being Tom Brady

      Was not that long ago when they drafted Clayborne in the first and Bowers in the second. How did that work out for Dominick? If our beloved GM gambles on a prayer rather then using his draft board he will be selling pencils on the street corner in no time. There is no patience for botching a draft. Also as pointed out here by SR, most view Buckner as a DT  not a DE unless you run a 3-4.

      If you utilize the linebackers to blitz more, Buckner would fit nicely. I digress. Dom did what he could to fix an area of need. I applaud him for that only. Bowers was rated as a #1 overall before the knee issues started tipping the flags. AC again was a sound prospect, but just didn't work out. Bowers had a horrible knee and terrible work ethic. Stuff happens. But you can't put your head in a hole and disregard need. We aren't the Patriots.

      Trust me Boid, I hear you. We are desperate for a decent edge rusher. I fully understand that there is not a defensive back in football that can cover a receiver if a QB has all day in the pocket. I like Buckner even if lined up next to GMAC. Interior guys can wreak havock as well, Sapp certainly did. I am just wondering if you draft Lawson at 9, or take Dodd or Ogbah in the 2nd, who's to say which guy will be better. It's a  crapshoot.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      The JJ Watt comparison is null and void. No, nobody saw him to be this damn good. He destroyed the combine and showed off his athletic ability but his production was average at best.That and Watt has an unreal work ethic. He is a * of a prospect when talking about striking gold.

      Excuse me but I called that one. I was calling for the Bucs to trade up for him.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      I agree with your sentiment that pass rushing DE is of dire need, and that fact has been ignored year after sh*tty yearBut you can't just wish a good DE into existence at  #9. Even though I'm the same camp as you that we HAVE to solve the DE drought, I'd rather take one in round 2 or 3 then throw away the #9 pick on a bad prospectThe JJ Watt argument is pretty weak. It's like saying every QB in round 6 has a legit chance at being Tom Brady

      Was not that long ago when they drafted Clayborne in the first and Bowers in the second. How did that work out for Dominick? If our beloved GM gambles on a prayer rather then using his draft board he will be selling pencils on the street corner in no time. There is no patience for botching a draft. Also as pointed out here by SR, most view Buckner as a DT  not a DE unless you run a 3-4.

      If you utilize the linebackers to blitz more, Buckner would fit nicely. I digress. Dom did what he could to fix an area of need. I applaud him for that only. Bowers was rated as a #1 overall before the knee issues started tipping the flags. AC again was a sound prospect, but just didn't work out. Bowers had a horrible knee and terrible work ethic. Stuff happens. But you can't put your head in a hole and disregard need. We aren't the Patriots.

      Trust me Boid, I hear you. We are desperate for a decent edge rusher. I fully understand that there is not a defensive back in football that can cover a receiver if a QB has all day in the pocket. I like Buckner even if lined up next to GMAC. Interior guys can wreak havock as well, Sapp certainly did. I am just wondering if you draft Lawson at 9, or take Dodd or Ogbah in the 2nd, who's to say which guy will be better. It's a  crapshoot.

      Well argued sir. Both in the same boat, just different ponds. It is a crapshoot, so by that merit your opinion is just as valid so we shall enjoy the proceedings. But if I have to watch crappy edgers again, I’m going to be calling for Lichts head. Enough is enough. And apologies to Hayseed. He started it, but i will end it. We are all Buc fans here!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      The JJ Watt comparison is null and void. No, nobody saw him to be this damn good. He destroyed the combine and showed off his athletic ability but his production was average at best.That and Watt has an unreal work ethic. He is a * of a prospect when talking about striking gold.

      Excuse me but I called that one. I was calling for the Bucs to trade up for him.

      You did I recall. Well done. But did your opinion of him go that far?For him being all universe defense? I'm sure you thought he was/is a beast, but like that?  Good call regardless JC. Who do you suggest we draft at nine? Two scenarios though: A) Trade the pick if possible, and then who do they draft?B) Stay at nine, and take?Just curious. I am firmly on the Buckner wagon. He may bomb, but that's who I like. If not him, then draft a wideout for Jameis.

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    • ruodrik

      Participant
      Post count: 285

      Not really your pass rushing DE mold, but can you imagine if we had Aaron Donald?  Man how did we mess that one up.  I yelled at the tv when we passed on that sure thing.  Still want the bucs to go BPA or trade down this year.  Id be curious to see if any team takes a shot on Aldon Smith despite his suspension.  Chris Clemons might be worth a look. Really just not thrilled about any of the options out there.  I liked the Ayers value. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      Happy you have reactivated Boid, yes to Buckner.  He looks like a guy who can play DE or DT for a 4-3 or a 3-4.  DC Smith has the history of liking big dlinemen, and I think there is a pretty good chance he will be there for the bucs.  If he is the bucs should be all over the opportunity.  If he’s there and the bucs go elsewhere – well the would be pretty stupid.  Pro evaluators compare him to Calais Campbell – pretty positive stuff. Charlie has him being available when the bucs pick - but doesn't have him taking Buckner - that would bother me a bit.  Kind of like when the bucs picked a qb instead of Percy Harvin. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      Buckner is ok but I like Lawson and Ogbah better. I love Lawson’s wide variety of moves; the guy takes pride in his craft. Ogbah has a great motor and I love the character there. But if you wanna go Coleman 9 and then a Correa or Kaufusi 39 I’m cool with that too.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Happy you have reactivated Boid, yes to Buckner.  He looks like a guy who can play DE or DT for a 4-3 or a 3-4.  DC Smith has the history of liking big dlinemen, and I think there is a pretty good chance he will be there for the bucs.  If he is the bucs should be all over the opportunity.  If he's there and the bucs go elsewhere - well the would be pretty stupid.  Pro evaluators compare him to Calais Campbell - pretty positive stuff. Charlie has him being available when the bucs pick - but doesn't have him taking Buckner - that would bother me a bit.  Kind of like when the bucs picked a qb instead of Percy Harvin.

      Speaking of Percy, he is available. But has more red flags than Home Depot.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      Happy you have reactivated Boid, yes to Buckner.  He looks like a guy who can play DE or DT for a 4-3 or a 3-4.  DC Smith has the history of liking big dlinemen, and I think there is a pretty good chance he will be there for the bucs.  If he is the bucs should be all over the opportunity.  If he's there and the bucs go elsewhere - well the would be pretty stupid.  Pro evaluators compare him to Calais Campbell - pretty positive stuff. Charlie has him being available when the bucs pick - but doesn't have him taking Buckner - that would bother me a bit.  Kind of like when the bucs picked a qb instead of Percy Harvin.

      Speaking of Percy, he is available. But has more red flags than Home Depot.

      Haha! I would have said the Kremlin or Tianamen Square but that’ll work!

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    • ronknight99

      Participant
      Post count: 21

      To be honest Leonard floyd I would definitely take over Hargreaves

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      The JJ Watt comparison is null and void. No, nobody saw him to be this damn good. He destroyed the combine and showed off his athletic ability but his production was average at best.That and Watt has an unreal work ethic. He is a * of a prospect when talking about striking gold.

      Excuse me but I called that one. I was calling for the Bucs to trade up for him.

      You did I recall. Well done. But did your opinion of him go that far?For him being all universe defense? I'm sure you thought he was/is a beast, but like that?  Good call regardless JC. Who do you suggest we draft at nine? Two scenarios though: A) Trade the pick if possible, and then who do they draft?B) Stay at nine, and take?Just curious. I am firmly on the Buckner wagon. He may bomb, but that's who I like. If not him, then draft a wideout for Jameis.

      I just started looking at guys. I studied Hargreaves and William Jackson III hard and I would say no to both of them. Hargreaves' gets beat but was able to recover because SEC QBs stink. He reminds a little bit of Ronde Barber but without the anticipation and savyness that Ronde had, which is made him who he was. I love Jackson's measureables but he can't cover like a top 10 pick CB should. Maybe as a trade back and move him to FS, but that's where I want Banks. Today I'm going to look at Von Bell, Mackenzie Alexander, Kendall Fuller and Artie Burns. This is looking like a trade back position to me. Even more so if they can make the trade I want: Glennon and our #3 for Calvin Pryor.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2188

      Happy you have reactivated Boid, yes to Buckner.  He looks like a guy who can play DE or DT for a 4-3 or a 3-4.  DC Smith has the history of liking big dlinemen, and I think there is a pretty good chance he will be there for the bucs.  If he is the bucs should be all over the opportunity.  If he's there and the bucs go elsewhere - well the would be pretty stupid.  Pro evaluators compare him to Calais Campbell - pretty positive stuff. Charlie has him being available when the bucs pick - but doesn't have him taking Buckner - that would bother me a bit.  Kind of like when the bucs picked a qb instead of Percy Harvin.

      I think Buckner is a real possibility if he's there. McCoy and Buckner would be formidable. That would give Mike Smith his Marcus Stroud/John Henderson combo that was so successful for him.I just don't see him making it to 9.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      McCoy would do well in the John Henderson role considering Henderson was the most over-rated player in the league for awhile.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      McCoy would do well in the John Henderson role considering Henderson was the most over-rated player in the league for awhile. .... AND WE SHOULD BRING FREEMAN BACK

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      McCoy would do well in the John Henderson role considering Henderson was the most over-rated player in the league for awhile. .... AND WE SHOULD BRING FREEMAN BACK

      No, but I would have liked Penn back.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      McCoy would do well in the John Henderson role considering Henderson was the most over-rated player in the league for awhile. .... AND WE SHOULD BRING FREEMAN BACK

      No, but I would have liked Penn back.

      And FreemanIf you're going to beat one of your troll drums, you might as well beat them all. More value. More amusing.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 814

      Pass rush=yesDeFo=No ( have Gholston and Ayers, prefer quick twitch pass rusher, Spence like )

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      You could even double up (Lawson, Correa). But this has to improve.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Just watched a bunch of Mackenzie Alexander film[img width=283 height=200]http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/03/Mother-of-God-GIF_1.gif?gs=a][/img]

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 187

      Just watched a bunch of Mackenzie Alexander film[img width=283 height=200]http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/03/Mother-of-God-GIF_1.gif?gs=a][/img]

      At first I could not stand Alexander, but now he is growing on me, 1. when he makes a play he shows off and is cocky, but I think we need that after watching how they came out flat the last 4 weeks I think someone like that might help the D and he speaks well,  don't know why that matters but it's nice when you hear guys talk and they don't sound stupid are uneducated.

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    • bucsnbr1

      Participant
      Post count: 309

      I agree with your sentiment that pass rushing DE is of dire need, and that fact has been ignored year after sh*tty yearBut you can't just wish a good DE into existence at  #9. Even though I'm the same camp as you that we HAVE to solve the DE drought, I'd rather take one in round 2 or 3 then throw away the #9 pick on a bad prospectThe JJ Watt argument is pretty weak. It's like saying every QB in round 6 has a legit chance at being Tom Brady

      I was one of three that wanted Russell Wilson. Ironically, Java was one of the others. Nobody knows who will do what!  VHIII might bust regardless of what a Mayock or Hayseed says about him (good screen name btw!)...I don't see these prospects as being world beaters. But nobody said JJ Watt was going to perform miracles out there either. So draft a DE and pray for Watt! That's all I getting at folks. Corner isn't a big a need as pass rush. Point blank. Bucs will get another first rounder next year. Grimes will be teetering, that would be a better time. Shore up the trenches! Blast Cam Newton!

      I’m not going to act like I know what exactly a scouting department does on a daily basis………..but I do know its a whole lot more then identifying a team need then picking any name to fill that position that’s on the ESPN top 30. Then they should just pray he’s good enough? Ha ha haSure we don't know how good any of these players will actually pan out. And neither do the NFL teams for the most part. I am certain they have a lot better idea then us though. You may be begging the Bucs to take Smith at #9. The Bucs might think Smith is an absolute scumbag and wouldn't touch him til the 3rd round. They've wacthed tape prodays and interviewed these guys. They know who they like and who they don't. Are you suggesting they just throw all those work away and take gutshots with all their picks? Should their future scouting consist of watching FSN on their couch's and have a mental list in their heads on draftday..........shoot what more preparation would they need if they were using your pray method?Just a thought......had Licht used your pray method on his first draft we would have drafted Manzeel as our future QB and prayed because that was our biggest need.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 295

      I agree with your sentiment that pass rushing DE is of dire need, and that fact has been ignored year after sh*tty yearBut you can't just wish a good DE into existence at  #9. Even though I'm the same camp as you that we HAVE to solve the DE drought, I'd rather take one in round 2 or 3 then throw away the #9 pick on a bad prospectThe JJ Watt argument is pretty weak. It's like saying every QB in round 6 has a legit chance at being Tom Brady

      I was one of three that wanted Russell Wilson. Ironically, Java was one of the others. Nobody knows who will do what!  VHIII might bust regardless of what a Mayock or Hayseed says about him (good screen name btw!)...I don't see these prospects as being world beaters. But nobody said JJ Watt was going to perform miracles out there either. So draft a DE and pray for Watt! That's all I getting at folks. Corner isn't a big a need as pass rush. Point blank. Bucs will get another first rounder next year. Grimes will be teetering, that would be a better time. Shore up the trenches! Blast Cam Newton!

      I understand your argument, but I think the only time you draft that way is for QB.In the NFL these days you can not compete for a championship without a franchise QB, and the only realistic way to find one is in the top 10 of the draft. That's why before the Bucs had Winston I argued to take a QB in the top 10 every year until we find one. Idc if it was Manziel, Carr, Bridgewater, just take one and keep taking them until one works outAt DE I don't agree with that strategy. The top 10 of the draft isn't the ONLY way to find a DE the way QB is, and the only position where you HAVE to be great in order to win a championship in today's pass happy, QB dominated league, is QB.I still agree with you about the need for DE, but I could just as easily say we used your strategy 10 years ago and drafted Gaines Adams strictly for need, and he didn't turn out to be JJ Watt. Take a LT, or LB, or even WR at #9 if there is not a comparable DE available there

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2445

      The JJ Watt comparison is null and void. No, nobody saw him to be this damn good. He destroyed the combine and showed off his athletic ability but his production was average at best.That and Watt has an unreal work ethic. He is a * of a prospect when talking about striking gold.

      I liked Watt before it was cool to do so.https://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php/topic,1279566.msg1344154.html#msg1344154

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2445

      Maybe someone here did foresee Watt becoming a superstar… "Smaller bust potential then J.J.Watt you think? JJ Watt doesnt have much bust potential either to me and he has more supterstar potential. He is as dedicated as it gets too. I have him on facebook and all he talks about is how hes gotta go work hard. Even tho the combine and prodays are done for him he still keeps posting how he has "a great sprinting work out tonight."  Honestly if teams look at talent AND character than Watt is one of the best picks in the entire draft."https://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php/topic,1279939.msg1350731.html#msg1350731

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