I am looking forward to this week’s Fab 5…but after listening to your disappointing Podcast this week, my expectations are not too high…Nearly the entire podcast was listening to you, Mark and Trevor complain about not taking Derwin James. Almost no insight on how stacked this d-line is and how this would be play major dividends for our linebackers and secondary. No real insight on Davis, Stewart, Cappa, Whitehead, RoJo, Watson or Cichy…this podcast was a complete dud.
Jenna Laine at ESPN actually did a nice article on why the Bucs went with Vea by talking to front office guys around the league…and they all pretty much saw why the Bucs did and were really high on Vea. I was one of many on the board that was not impressed by James and his tape. Yes, he was highly recruited and he can jump high and ran fast but I did not see the instincts and flexibility on the field. How often do you see a defensive back opt out of the shuttles/cone drills? I think it is apparent why. That is a red flag. He might end up being a good player but that is simply based on projection, not production or even tape evidence from college. FSU had a ton of talent on defense and if he as the leader you say he is on the field, why could he not lead them to have an even decent defense. He last season was mediocre at best…
Just like many people on this board predicted, James dropped, Fitzpatrick was taken ahead of him…We get it, Scott, you love Derwin but he is not a Buc so lets move on to players that are. I typically look forward to your articles and podcasts and will always be a big supporter of PR…let’s drop the James talk.
Yea i was surprised to hear Trevor kinda didnt love the pick. He said he understood it but would have preferred James. PR staff and lots of fans for months begging to build the trenches. Then we actually do what we should have done and taken the best DT in the draft, then they go all “we should have taken James”. I love the Vea pick and would much rather have him over James. A lot of other teams passed on him too.
Bucs45, the new SR’s Fab 5 is mostly about Vita Vea, whom we had going to Tampa Bay at No. 7 in the second and third Bucs’ 7-Round Mock Drafts we did. Vea was also our Bucs’ Best Bet. We were high on Vea and the first to report that the Bucs were. However, Derwin James was the alternate in the first round if Vea was off the board by the time Tampa Bay picked. That’s a fact.
Scott, I am not saying that you did not promote Vea early on…the podcast, though was all about not picking James which was disappointing. I am a life-long Bucs fan but not from Florida and could care less about FSU or UF or whatever… I just want the best player and I thought that James was nearly just as much a projection type of pick as Davenport. Lots of hype and could be good but not a lot of results to base it on in college. I also felt his refusal to run certain drills at the combine and pro day a little concerning…especially since they specifically reflect what I think his weak points are… I also felt that coverage on James was mostly fawning over how great he was and not at all critical of his flaws. I wish James the best but I would have picked Vea and Fitzpatrick over James.
Derwin james isn’t that good not sure what people are seeing. Vita vea is going to be a beast. Why all the hate for that pick? I don’t get the fsu fascination with bucs fans. Everytime there’s someone in the draft from there people act like they’re gods gift to football.
Derwin would have been a philosophically awful pick. Build the monsters from front to back…not sure why SR would fawn over Der Jim, when the Bucs pass rush is so pathetic. He may be jumping the national media chains saying Der Jim is a steal when in reality he slid.
I didnt know he refused to run the cone drills…and indeed those were issues with him. The nasty injury and the lack of real production would have made this a tragic selection. And refusing to deal with the anemic trenches is bush league. Licht grew up. Got wicked smart. Drafting a safety who championed certain parts of the underwear olympics is/would have been hysterical!!!!!!!
Falling in love with his combine which was limited is a joke.
May 4, 18 at 9:58 am #1082180
However, Derwin James was the alternate in the first round if Vea was off the board by the time Tampa Bay picked. That’s a fact.
You literally just posted an article where you admit:
“Licht didn’t reveal his draft board to me, but reading between the lines based on our conversation I would guess it went like this:”
And, it still doesn’t take away from what the OP said (if true), that you were all complaining about the pick.
An excerpt from Scott’s Fab 5, directly quoted from Jason Licht himself hence the Scott’s reference to a fact.
“That was a lot of fun,” Licht said. “I knew that there was a chance that Vea was going to go Miami. I had some intel that Washington wasn’t going to trade up to get him, though. I wasn’t worried because once Arizona made the trade up – and we had feeling that’s what they were going to do – that would push both Vea and Derwin James into that next spot. We knew we were going to get one or the other. To me that was worth picking up the two second-round picks and risking it – even though we wanted Vea.
You have James, who might be a Pro-Bowl level player eventually… And you have Vea, who almost certainly will… And D-line talent is always at a premium. When you have a guy like this available, you gotta take him… I think we’ve added some talent at safety now that it won’t be a dire need anymore, and we were able to wait… Licht made the right decision. I do believe Minkah is a better football player than James and we may have preferred him.
Do you think he really slid because of concerns with his talent level or due to the positional value of a traditional strong safety? Just curious because I’m thinking it’s moreso the latter and that Derwin is kind of like this year’s OJ Howard. Either way I’m geeked for Vea after learning more about his game.
May 4, 18 at 4:39 pm #1082227
Sounds like, if it wasn’t Vea it was going to be James. There was zero Tampa interest in Minkah, mainly because of Mark Barron. Same player really…
I credit you for sticking to your guns Jaboo. As thick-headed as they may be, your opinions are at least consistent.
Minkah is Zero/nothng/no way like Barron…James is! As I said in another thread and someone quoted here…your boy didn’t do agility drills and if you watch the tape it’s easy to see why…he’s upright and stiff in the hips…he’ll be a nice outside linebacker though.
I’ve got to admit that I’d have preferred James to be the pick at 12 for a couple reasons.
It still doesn’t make sense to me that we took a NT in the first round after paying out unrein and Allen to do essentially the same thing Vea brings. I would say Vea’ s ceiling is higher than those guys, but that is highly dependent on Vea improving his pass rush. As a senior I’d like him to be more refined in that area. I would be more comfortable with us taking DT if it were a 3 tech prospect that could put pressure on the qb. I would have preferred us addressing the D Line with the the pick we used on MJ. Still a lot of D Line talent left on the board when we made that pick (Nathan Sheppard, Sam Hubbard, BJ hill)
James is going to ascend to be a top safety quickly. People saying that his production was poor or didn’t match his combine results are out of their mind. Reference his stats and see how he keeps pace and even out performs minkah in just about every statistical category except ints. 3-cone drill or not hes always around the ball. Moreover his injury (torn meniscus) was overblown throughout the draft process. A torn meniscus isn’t a devastating injury. The only knocks that have validity are that he needs to read routes better in coverage (this didn’t effect him too much in college but he will need to improve at the pro level) and that he had the itis during a couple games last year when the team was stuggling as a whole. Having James and Davis would give me a lot more confidence in our matchup ability especially given our division.
I’m really hoping that the pieces we’ve added on the D line is what our secondary needed to take their game up a notch, but until proven otherwise I still see the secondary as a major weakness. Right now the only proven commodity we have on the backend is grimes.
Too many people assumed we weren’t in on Vea because we signed Beau Allen. But the reality is, Allen has been nothing but a decent rotational guy on a great line so far. Not to mention, the depth at DT was really poor before drafting Vea. Having both guys allows us to rotate and have a better chance at copying the Eagles defensive line that Allen and Curry had success on. Vita is the better, and younger player and will eventually outshine Allen (at least that’s the hope), but for now we don’t have to have him be a every down player in the hot Florida sun. We can throw a lot of big bodies at offenses and they get to rest and preserve themselves where as the offensive lineman they will be going up against will be playing every snap and worn down in the 4th. I like how it looks, I kind of wish we could’ve drafted an edge rusher with upside but this class wasn’t looking good for us once it was obvious that Chubb wouldn’t fall. Vita Vea was the 2nd best defensive lineman in this draft and it’s obvious that was the priority of the offseason.
Temper tantrum? Hardly. Just pointing out the error in someone thinking Minkah is even in the same league as Derwin. GTFOH
Fitz is indeed not in the same league…he’s better!
Sounds like a front office down in Miami also agrees with mine and others opinions that Fitzpatrick is a superior talent. They get paid 6 figures minimum to evaluate such things…BUT you should probably hang up the Jiffy Lube apron and head down there to show them boys how it’s done.
I’ll bet you “board privilege” pinks. Derwin is better than Minkah in 3 years, I’ll leave the board and never post again. Would you wager the same for Turd-Win?
Agree with the OP I couldn’t believe the negativity I was listening to. As hyped as Vea was in the early offseason I thought they’d be ecstatic. Seems once we signed other d-linemen the PR staff turned off of Vea. I still think it was the right choice. Let’s not forget how free agents usually turn out here in Tampa. It’s nice to have a young promising prospect on the d line. Let’s hope for better from the PR staff this week and the Bucs this year because I enjoy following both!
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