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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3212

      Who would you rather have?

      Vsquared all day for me. His impact in the trenches fits the desperate need for help on that side of the ball. He is at a low value spot regarding the defensive interior, as is Nelly.

      Given the needs of the Bucs, if the team were to invest in an instant starter, both of whom are pile movers, they would be absolutely foolish to not realize this, and take the guy who plays defense.

      Both are par for potential, but one fits a desperate need for Tampa while having the same day 1 impact.

      Analysis?

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    • SunnyD

      Participant
      Post count: 633

      Nelson for me because I’m not yet convinced Vea can be a three down player in the NFL.

      He only played 62% of the snaps in college.

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    • Buc Bauce

      Participant
      Post count: 709

      Nelson, and it ain’t even close.

      There are about 6 or 7 very good DT in this draft. We can find a good one even in the 3rd.

      Vea won’t rush the passer that well in the NFL as far as I’m concerned.

      But if you have to pick between those two… You take Nelson 8 times out of 7.

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    • Chyno

      Participant
      Post count: 50

      Nelson all day. He’s got all pro written all over him. They say he’s a better prospect than Zack Martin coming out, and look how he turned out.

      Vea is athletic as hell for his size and he’s a space eater. He’ll probably play the run very well, but I’m still not sold on him as a consistent pass rusher from the inside. Not sure if he’ll be a 2 down guy or what but I do like Vea, just not at 7 imo.

      Nelson is a more of a sure thing than Vea is at this point. We can find a space eater DT in FA or later in the draft. Nelson is a Day 1 starter and looks like he’ll have a hell of a career. I rather have a line for Winston and the run game, opposed to a run stuffing DT. We have more of a need at OG than we do DT.

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    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1932

      I cannot understand all this Vea love. This isn’t the 90’s. We don’t have Ray Lewis at MLB. We don’t need a 3-4 NT, a great 3-4 NT, but a 3-4 NT at his best.

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    • J.A.S.H.E.R.

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      Post count: 2937

      Instead of drafting Vea, just sign Poe. Drafting Nelson is an easy choice…he helps our shitty run game, shitty redzone success, and gives whoever is QB a much cleaner pocket to work with.

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5890

      Nelson.

      Most people would have no idea who Vea was if not for SR’s new man crush, courtesy of Jimmy Lake.

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    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13938

      Instead of drafting Vea, just sign Poe. Drafting Nelson is an easy choice…

      Or you could draft one of the many, in what looks to be one of the best OG classes in years, in the 3rd or 4th to get better value.

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    • J.A.S.H.E.R.

      Participant
      Post count: 2937

      Nelson at 7 is plenty of value, it directly feeds into the success and health of Winston.

      Nelson is plug and play and is arguably the 2nd best player in this draft. And I was answering OP’s question of who I’d rather have out him and Vea… I’m not saying Nelson is the guy I want the most. I’d take Chubb all day over him if given the chance.

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    • Dy-nasty D

      Participant
      Post count: 264

      I think we’ve got to put some talent on the DL.

      Vea will be a cornerstone of the D. So, he won’t get a bunch of sacks, but he’ll stop the run, collapse the pocket, and make tackles a lot easier for the LBs.

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    • Pepsi

      Participant
      Post count: 2047

      Nelson by a mile. DT isnt whats needed to help this leagues worst sack/pressure Dline. We need edge rushers for that. DTs are cool but good ones are overrated unless your Aaron Donald. Case in point, our very own bucs and Gerald McCoy. Weve had a top 5 DT for years while simultaneously having the worst Dline in the league many of those years. The 7 games we picked up Jaq Smith from the streets, we actually were looking like a solid Dline. The one year we had one quality DE in Michael Bennet, we were actually pressuring the QB. Vea isnt going to bring this 32nd ranked Dline into the top 20. You can get a quality DT in FA every year. theres 4 solid ones this year. You cant get a prospect like Nelson every year. Were looking one of the best interior Oline prospects of the decade. If Nelson is gone and you want to talk about pairing McCoy with a DT to strengthen the interior and have a McCoy succeessor, thats fine. But Vea isnt an immediate impact pick.

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    • Pepsi

      Participant
      Post count: 2047

      Dy-Nasty D
      Mar 7, 18 at 10:09 am #1065487
      I think we’ve got to put some talent on the DL.

      Vea will be a cornerstone of the D. So, he won’t get a bunch of sacks, but he’ll stop the run, collapse the pocket, and make tackles a lot easier for the LBs.

      Last time a DT was the cornerstone of our defense.. we were the 32nd rated Dline in the league

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    • Ja’crispy

      Participant
      Post count: 958

      I think id have to wait till after free agency. For example if we can get a guy like Dontari Poe then im going Nelson, but if we can get Norwell, then im going Vita Vea.

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5890

      Ja’crispy
      Mar 7, 18 at 10:55 am #1065503

      I think id have to wait till after free agency. For example if we can get a guy like Dontari Poe then im going Nelson, but if we can get Norwell, then im going Vita Vea.

      Making draft day decisions based on FA signings isn’t a good practice. The team needs to take the best player, regardless of position.

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    • mgchat76

      Participant
      Post count: 374

      I’d say Norwell, but I like Vea, too. Fixing the interior OL would go a long ways to fixing the running game. Fix the run game and we fix the the red zone suckiness. Keeping the offense on the field longer would help keep the D fresh. Ideally we fix the OL in FA with Norwell and Jensen and freeing us up to take BPA, but I don’t see that happening. Norwell is a Giant.

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    • Ja’crispy

      Participant
      Post count: 958

      Cant say i agree with you Biggs. So if a QB like Josh Allen or Baker mayfeild are on the board at #7 are we taking them. of course not. If we sign Norwell, theres no way they draft Nelson. The FA signings have an impact of who we draft. If we fill the need in free agency it gives us other options in the draft for other holes.

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    • Detrimental

      Participant
      Post count: 1543

      Nelson over Vea. Simply because Nelson projects as a better pro prospect and also fills a bigger need. Elite OL are a rare breed and the reason why above average ones are paid top dollar. Now if it the question was Chubb or Nelson then its Chubb without thinking twice.

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    • Detrimental

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      Post count: 1543

      Even if Bucs sign Norwell I still wouldn’t write off Nelson at 7. Just ensures Marpet would be playing C and our interior becomes the strength of the team instead of the weakness.

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5890

      Ja’crispy
      Mar 7, 18 at 11:44 am #1065521
      So if a QB like Josh Allen or Baker mayfeild are on the board at #7 are we taking them.

      I don’t think anybody would argue they are BPA. The QB needy teams are reaching for these QB’s

      Ja’crispy
      Mar 7, 18 at 11:44 am #1065521

      If we sign Norwell, theres no way they draft Nelson.

      Why? Two OG’s can play on the field at the same time. If the team were to have signed DeMarcus Lawrence or Ziggy Ansah, should they should pass on Bradley Chubb because they signed a DE in FA? Of course not.

      As we’ve seen, FA signings don’t always pan out. You can’t make decisions based on Free Agency.

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    • Watchman

      Participant
      Post count: 372

      Nelson

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      • RDUBuc

        Participant
        Post count: 4

        Nelson would be a no-brainer. If you can get that kind of quality player to play OL with Marpet it’s an immediate improvement in the run game. Plus, it protects Jameis.

        I would take Fitzpatrick or Derwin James if Nelson was already gone at #7.

        If we traded back I would take Da’ron Payne before Vea.

        Vea is late 1st or early 2nd round.

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    • Hank Scorpio

      Participant
      Post count: 394

      Nelson

      I’m not big on drafting Vea at all. I don’t think he’s much of an upgrade over Clinton McDonald tbh.

      And I’m hoping Licht addresses our interior OL in FA, making the drafting of Nelson unnecessary so we can target other positions in the draft that don’t have many good FA options like Edge rusher, CB/S, and OT.

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    • Ja’crispy

      Participant
      Post count: 958

      Im just saying with so many holes to fill i just dont see them going that route. Im my opinon Marpet is a better guard then center. I think they are going to move Marpet back to RG, sign/draft a center, and sign or draft a LG either Norwell or Nelson. so therefore i dont see them signing Norwell and drafting Nelson when Marpet is at RG.

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    • Pepsi

      Participant
      Post count: 2047

      Ja’crispy
      Mar 7, 18 at 11:44 am #1065521
      Cant say i agree with you Biggs. So if a QB like Josh Allen or Baker mayfeild are on the board at #7 are we taking them. of course not. If we sign Norwell, theres no way they draft Nelson. The FA signings have an impact of who we draft. If we fill the need in free agency it gives us other options in the draft for other holes.

      I actually want Nelson more if we sign Norwell lol. Thats the whole point.. itd be the oppurtunity to completely power up the Oline in one offseason. Neslon, Marpet, Norwell in the middle. Thats like best case scenario type of offseason. I dont even like boring Barber, but he could be a thousand yard back behind that line.

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    • Pepsi

      Participant
      Post count: 2047

      Ja’crispy
      Mar 7, 18 at 12:57 pm #1065546
      Im just saying with so many holes to fill i just dont see them going that route. Im my opinon Marpet is a better guard then center. I think they are going to move Marpet back to RG, sign/draft a center, and sign or draft a LG either Norwell or Nelson. so therefore i dont see them signing Norwell and drafting Nelson when Marpet is at RG.

      saw this after my last post. I do like this route even better. Sign a center, draft nelson move marpet back to guard.

      But either way, id love the idea of Signing one starting interior Olineman, and then drafting Nelson. Marpets position adjusts accordingly.

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    • acacius

      Participant
      Post count: 488

      As much as I’m on team Not-Super-Excited-About-Taking-An-OG-In-The-Top-10, I take Nelson here pretty easily.

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    • Ja’crispy

      Participant
      Post count: 958

      So lets say they keep Marpet at center. Then they sign Norwell and draft Nelson. Norwell and Nelson are both LEFT Guards. SO are you saying your going to move one of them to RG??? and if so which one?

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5890

      Ja’crispy
      Mar 7, 18 at 1:24 pm #1065565

      So lets say they keep Marpet at center. Then they sign Norwell and draft Nelson. Norwell and Nelson are both LEFT Guards. SO are you saying your going to move one of them to RG??? and if so which one?

      Sure, move one to RG. It’s not that big of a deal. Hell, Marpet was a LT when he was drafted.

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    • Detrimental

      Participant
      Post count: 1543

      Bucs become a top 10 rushing offense with Marpet/Norwell/Nelson on the same field. A good running game helps us where we aren’t very good at or havent been good at… the red zone

      I’m hoping DE but if Nelson falls to 7 we should be happy campers. Redskins drafted a G at #5, one of the best guards in the game.

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      This is easy for me. Vita Vea without any doubt, and I will provide the OP with my analysis, as requested.

      Vita Vea will make your entire front 7 better, as teams will be forced to double team him. LB’s will not have that free OL coming out to block them, and your DL has less blockers to deal with because Vea is eating them.

      Here is a video of Penn States coach talking about Vea.
      vita vea

      The number one reason I like Vea over Nelson is because I’m projecting Vea to be an elite NFL DT.

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      For the second part of my analysis Quenton Nelson. Anyone who has done a little bit of research into Q has heard all of the below. He’s the safest pick in the draft, he’s one of the best players in the draft. He’s going to be a dominant NFL player, and so on.

      He has plenty of film out there dominating North Carolina and Ohio U, so the next step in evaluating him is to find out how he plays vs. NFL level talent. You want to watch him vs. NC State and Georgia.

      If he can dominate NFL level talent, then we can validate what has been said, that he will be a dominant NFL player. In the clip below vs. Georgia there is enough there for me to form the opinion that he will be an average NFL Guard. If he can’t dominate Georgia, he’s not going to dominate at the next level. This is simple analysis/reasoning.

      Q had plenty of good plays and plenty of bad in this game. I’m going to focus on the bad. The reason why he’s not who they say he is.

      :48 pancaked by a LB #51
      :56 driven back and ran by #91
      1:05 bull rushed and needed help by #5
      1:23 unable to move #13 on run block and put on skates
      1:34 unable to block #13
      1:53 misses downfield block
      2:12 pulls a DSmith and lets his block go too soon.
      2:56 misses downfield block on #3 who makes the tackle
      3:35 too slow to get out in front of the play. Blocks nobody RB swarmed and fumbles.
      3:45 fails to drive #76 back or contain him on run block
      4:28 bull rushed into the backfield on 2nd and goal from the 2 yard line.
      4:52 pulls and driven back gets no push run goes nowhere.
      5:09 thrown off to the side by #51
      5:48 unable to move #5 who ancors and makes the run stop.
      6:08 gets out in space on screen misses block
      6:40 Severely bull rushed and put on skates

      QNelson #56

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      For me the choice between Vea and Nelson is close.

      NFL Profiles has 1. Barkley; 2. Nelson; 4. Chubb; 8. Vea

      If one eliminates QBs and WRs and LBs; Chubb ends up 3rd and Vea ends up 4th.

      Nelson is excellent, but Vea is one of those body types that doesn’t appear every year. He is just BIG. There is
      not much fat on his body.

      And he is still a bit raw. As he plays for a few years, he is probably going to show a fair amount of improvement. And he will probably last for 10 or so years

      Nelson is great, but there are other guards who can protect Winston and open holes, not only in the league but also in this draft, eg: Hernandez (big with no fat); Wynn, a converted LT who was voted the outstanding OL man in the Senior Bowl; and Price who in 2016 was 1st team All American at Guard, before switching to Center in 2017.

      So for me, it seems like the best choice is Vea, who will be very effective against the run, and will collapse the
      pocket so opposing QBs cannot step up. Because of his size he will probably require double-teaming and that should make McCoy more effective.

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    • Mike

      Participant
      Post count: 521

      Good discussion, but do you all really think Nelson will still be on the board for our pick?

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    • Pepsi

      Participant
      Post count: 2047

      My god goldsonages.. I just watched the first 4 timemarks you mentioned on Nelson from that game, and that is some of the worst analysis I’ve ever seen. Just wtf bad. The first one he gets tripped up on the defender that’s lying on the ground next to him, and then the following 3 you’re completely off base. He executed his the inside seal block assignment near perfection, and on one you said he on skates and needed help, lol was that a joke? He completely stone walked the guy.

      I can’t tell if your trolling with that stuff

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5890

      Pepsi
      Mar 7, 18 at 7:38 pm #1065726
      My god goldsonages.. I just watched the first 4 timemarks you mentioned on Nelson from that game, and that is some of the worst analysis I’ve ever seen. Just wtf bad.

      This is surprising to nobody.

      Mini-McShay is a self-proclaimed expert.

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5890

      SunnyD
      Mar 7, 18 at 8:37 am #1065453
      Nelson for me because I’m not yet convinced Vea can be a three down player in the NFL.

      He only played 62% of the snaps in college.

      This is a point the Vea crowd doesn’t want to address. Why did this guy not play more vs. competition that he was decidedly stronger and older than? Does the Vea crowd expect this percentage to increase or decrease once he’s playing against grown men that are much stronger than the college competition he’s faced?

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      Pepsi
      on one you said he on skates and needed help, lol was that a joke

      ——————————————

      None of my timestamps have included that verbage. He got bull rushed, moved backwards and the center helped out. Stop making things up. Open your eyes.

      My analysis is of the negative aspects of his play. I clearly state that at the beginning.

      I would love for someone to explain to me how Q is going to dominate the NFL, yet he got severely pushed around by Georgia?

      4:28 is the most damning evidence I’ve seen yet. 2nd and goal from the 2 yard line and he gets blown up!! How do you justify that one? He’s supposed to be a sure shot NFL all-pro, and when it comes down to the clutch against NFL level talent on the goal line he folds like a cheap tent. This whole Quenton Nelson hype is a JOKE.

      Explain that Pepsi. Let’s hear your analysis of that play. I’m sure you’re going to tell me that his shoestrings came untied and otherwise he would have been all sweet?

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Have been unable to find Nelson actual age.

      Anyone know for sure??

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      This from “Draft Countdown regarding Vea:

      “Freakish physical specimen with a rare blend of size and athleticism is far more than just a run stuffer”

      Draft Countdown ranks Vea 7th overall and w/o QBs 6th overall

      They also rank Nelson #2.

      Definitely a close call.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3212

      I meant to title this “Plug and Play: Nelson or Vea?”

      I just see the defense needing a major boost, and if the interior , “low value” positions are being addressed with premium selections, that cut needs to be damn good. I think if both are there, Q-Nails will get the nod. I would pick the future Haloti Ngata, as he instantly improves the d-line by taking pressure of the scheme. He needs to not just hold his integrity, but he needs to move humanity around, which based on his game, and combine, he should. He reminds me of when Dontari came out, big time combine size-weight metrics, but played an ugly position. I see the same thing with Vea. I don’t expect sacks by the fistful. By expect a better functionality of the defense with the interior being patrolled by some seriously big and fast predators.

      They can snag Curry, draft another DE, and suddenly the defense looks remarkably improved on paper.

      Defensive Line has to be addressed. Those who don’t want Vea because of “perceived value” want a guard because it is better value?

      He may be a two down player, but I’d prefer he be a part of a nasty rotation (Vea), which is how good d-lines are manufactured. He isn’t going to be a part of a pure pass rush situation. Most aren’t.

      I like Q-Nails, but I’d prefer Vea because of value for the defense. Which is garbage.

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    • Pepsi

      Participant
      Post count: 2047

      GoldsonAges
      Mar 7, 18 at 11:55 pm #1065780
      Pepsi
      on one you said he on skates and needed help, lol was that a joke

      ——————————————

      None of my timestamps have included that verbage. He got bull rushed, moved backwards and the center helped out. Stop making things up. Open your eyes.

      My analysis is of the negative aspects of his play. I clearly state that at the beginning.

      I would love for someone to explain to me how Q is going to dominate the NFL, yet he got severely pushed around by Georgia?

      4:28 is the most damning evidence I’ve seen yet. 2nd and goal from the 2 yard line and he gets blown up!! How do you justify that one? He’s supposed to be a sure shot NFL all-pro, and when it comes down to the clutch against NFL level talent on the goal line he folds like a cheap tent. This whole Quenton Nelson hype is a JOKE.

      Explain that Pepsi. Let’s hear your analysis of that play. I’m sure you’re going to tell me that his shoestrings came untied and otherwise he would have been all sweet?

      OK so every timemark of the plays I’ve watched so far have been completely horrible anaylsis. I havent watched all of them… after 4 in a row being so wrong, I didnt want to waste my time. Maybe after work if im bored. but the one youre doubling down on – “1:05 bull rushed and needed help by #5” – amazing anaylsis.. truly is. I recommend other to check it out.. pretty damning stuff if you ever want to argue a prospect with Goldson. Youre either a major troll or you have no business posting about someone game film. This is what we refer to as an Olineman stonewalling the defender but youre somehow calling it a negative play.

      On 4:28.. what you call “the most damning evidence” that Nelson is not special. When I read that this morning, I figured it must have been a bad play.. Im sure Nelson has a slip up or two in any given game. He probably has a couple in this game somewhere, sure. But you were so off of the first 4 that I couldnt concede that play to you. Had to watch that one. ANNDD WHAT DO YOU KNOW?? another terrible job of analysis on whats happening. Ill give you some help with this one. Yes theyre at the goal line, a studious observation so far on your part compared to everything else you noticed. Here is the first play in the goal line.. the one before “the most damning evidence play” https://youtu.be/WkAqbAOnQns?t=257 . He completely dominates on this goal line run play. Literally blocked 2 people into the endzone. And heres your claimed worst play https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkAqbAOnQns&feature=youtu.be&t=267 . Do you notice the difference here? Ones a goal line run block where he wants to aggressively push up field, the other is a pass block where your typically going a little bit backwards, more reactive and controlling, high emphasis on good footwork, less emphasis on leverage and strength.

      This is what youre getting completely wrong. Theres a major difference between run blocking and pass blocking. It seems on every pass blocking play youre incorrectly expecting a good guard to be driving the tackle back past the line of scrimmage. and on the run plays you dont seem to understand some of these plays arent calling for an aggressive drive forward but for him to create an inside seal, which hes a doing a great job of. On plays where he is called to simply go beast mode and drive a guy back he does a great job as well, pointed out in that goal line run play where he domiantes two defenders on one play.

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5890

      Like Nelson destroys defenders, Pepsi is destroying Mini-McShay.

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      I have gone back and forth between Nelson and Vea (Chubb already taken).

      This film of Washington vs Stanford has tipped the scale for me.

      Link: http://www.draftcountdown.com/player/vita-vea/

      For me Vea is just not enough of a force, and I presume NFL OL will be stronger.

      I am now squarely in the camp of taking Nelson if Chubb is already taken.

      I would appreciate the comments of others on the play of Vea in the above linked game.

      Please wait…

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